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[PC] Mod 16 PvE Washed Up Fighter Tank Guide

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  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    sulajpl said:

    As far as I'm concerned, Daunting Challenge does only reduce damage dealt by marked targets for yer party members.
    "[...] but You still deal full damage to you."
    That's all I wanted to say...

    According to @michela123, she found that Daunting Challenge would reduce enemy damage to both you AND your team.

    (And... a spelling error. I need to stop typing this in class <_<)

    (andd time to update this)

  • sulajplsulajpl Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    Shocked how the letters under feats can lie. Good to know.
  • spectrekot#5644 spectrekot Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Hi, do u have skill calculator for u build, like here?
    https://nwcalc.com
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    sulajpl said:

    As far as I'm concerned, Daunting Challenge does only reduce damage dealt by marked targets for yer party members.
    "[...] but You still deal full damage to you."
    That's all I wanted to say...

    Despite of what the tooltip says, daunting challenge also reduces the damage taken by the gf.
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    After playing with the build for a solid couple of days now, I just wan't to give a shout to @rjc9000 IT WORKS GREAT MAN!

    Changed from Conq strictly to run FBI and SVA and it's a great way to play this content as a tanky/utility/buffer Tact.
    So thank's for your work good Sir :) (you and other build/guide contributors).

    P.S

    Is there a "good" way to pass the 1st phase (Mountain Climb or whatever it's called) in FBI?

    These panicking Orc's that call reinforcements are a pain in the HAMSTER. Won't stop them, suddenly half of the map is painted red.

    I mean, I'm trying to do my best but it's really hard/impossible to grab all the aggro since these stupid Giants bounce from one party member to another (won't even tell the thing about those rock throwers ugh!).

    Been there like 10 times maybe? and 1st phase is always the most difficult. Let's agree the rest of the dungeon is much much easier.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    kemi1984 said:

    After playing with the build for a solid couple of days now, I just wan't to give a shout to @rjc9000 IT WORKS GREAT MAN!

    Changed from Conq strictly to run FBI and SVA and it's a great way to play this content as a tanky/utility/buffer Tact.
    So thank's for your work good Sir :) (you and other build/guide contributors).

    P.S

    Is there a "good" way to pass the 1st phase (Mountain Climb or whatever it's called) in FBI?

    These panicking Orc's that call reinforcements are a pain in the HAMSTER. Won't stop them, suddenly half of the map is painted red.

    I mean, I'm trying to do my best but it's really hard/impossible to grab all the aggro since these stupid Giants bounce from one party member to another (won't even tell the thing about those rock throwers ugh!).

    Been there like 10 times maybe? and 1st phase is always the most difficult. Let's agree the rest of the dungeon is much much easier.

    No problem man! This guide was made to help other!

    :)

    That climb is rather difficult and is easily the hardest part of the dungeon.

    Assuming you're not gunning for a world record speedrun, my favorite strategy was one that the Unrepentant folks used.

    What we did was we cleared the first group as per usual. What happened next was everyone else stayed put at the first area while our DC (Gwynn was our DC, I believe) would aggro the groups farther up the hill.

    This way, when Gwynn would get back to us, we would have a lot of room to fight and manuever and the enemies would trickle in in small groups, turning it into a 5 vs. 1 or a 5 vs. 2, which is easy to manage.

    We would proceed up to the second campsite and repeat this process until we got to the first boss. It wasn't the fastest, but the tactics involved were satisfying.

    For the wandering giants, we would simply wait until their placement was away from the other giants, and then aggro them so we would have an easy 5 vs. 1.

    To deal with the squealers/callers/panickers, our team CC'd them hard. Our CW used Ice Knife + Entangling Force, our TR used Smoke Bomb, and our DC used (normal) Chains. After that, our team just burned him down.

    My only other pieces of advice is KILL THE SMALL FRY FIRST. The faster you start outnumbering the enemies, the easier the fights become.

    If you're trying it the usual "run up and aggro each group", well, there's not much advice I can give you. Pray for Deflects, use your Fighter's Recovery well, and use your ETs when you see immunity is up and then go back to dodging to circles/hiding behind your shield.

    (btw, with AA, it only has 4 hits before it expires. So as soon as you see/hear the animation go up, that's your moment of immunity, as the balls still remain even after the 4 hits have expired).

  • crizpynutzcrizpynutz Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    I'm not running a Tact GF anymore but really nice guide man. Good stuff!
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    I'm not running a Tact GF anymore but really nice guide man. Good stuff!

    Yeah, I kind of swapped to Conqueror as well.

    However, my Conq gear sucks, and in addition to voodoo magic that Sharpedge is cooking up for a run, I have swapped back to Tactician.

  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 981 Arc User
    Does conq work in FBI ? How does conq company to tact in group play?
    Elite Whaleboy
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I was a Conq ever since FBI and SVA showed up.

    Now I'm full Tact and have a 2nd gear and comp setup for DPS solo play.

    As a full Conq I had some serious issues tanking Orcus even, so I expect to be demolished in FBI and SVA.
    That was before AA blocked everything...I suck at tanking ofc, won't fight for it :P

    I do believe, after some serious tweaking, it's possible to make a Tact/Conq hybrid and dish out some damage with a proper survivability and party buffs.

    True difference is with recovery stacking and gear of course. But it's entirely possible.

    As a Conq you're benefiting more from the LS as the damage is like 10 times better than a Tact.
    But running KV in FBI with a "I don't dodge red duh..."group will make you dead in a flash.

    Will stay Tact as this playstyle suits me best for the time being.
    I have so many retraining tokens from the Winter Festival that it will be enough till the new one.
    Post edited by kemi1984 on
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I'm still conq. the only difference I see with the two is that conq does more damage and tact generates AP when getting hurt.

    I build my conq to be dr capped, reasonable hitpoints and buff items (dancing shield, plaguefire). I have no issues tanking FBI. I don't use steel defense or shield talent.

    I have recorded a run I did with sharpedge (he was running his DC). When tanking i usually do 1/4 of a high skilled dpser, when im support (with OP) i usually do about 1/2 their damage.

    Probably would be more reasonable if i had a 3x offensive + vorpal, but I'm happy being a conq debuffer, i find it is easier to carry weak teams with (ones where im top/2nd dpser even as a tank.)

    I will post these videos soon, but i missed the turtle fight (didn't know trial bandicam stopped at 10 mins.) But it would be better to record a video of turtle with a weak team, to show how to properly do it, rather than faceroll hdps team ignoring turtle mechanics and eating slams.)

    I think tact is great where it works (fbi/msva/dragon flight/orcus) but because of my gear, anywhere else doesn't really hurt me enough making the how spec redundant for me in places outside of that :(.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    grimah said:

    I'm still conq. the only difference I see with the two is that conq does more damage and tact generates AP when getting hurt.

    I build my conq to be dr capped, reasonable hitpoints and buff items (dancing shield, plaguefire). I have no issues tanking FBI. I don't use steel defense or shield talent.

    I have recorded a run I did with sharpedge (he was running his DC). When tanking i usually do 1/4 of a high skilled dpser, when im support (with OP) i usually do about 1/2 their damage.

    Probably would be more reasonable if i had a 3x offensive + vorpal, but I'm happy being a conq debuffer, i find it is easier to carry weak teams with (ones where im top/2nd dpser even as a tank.)

    I will post these videos soon, but i missed the turtle fight (didn't know trial bandicam stopped at 10 mins.) But it would be better to record a video of turtle with a weak team, to show how to properly do it, rather than faceroll hdps team ignoring turtle mechanics and eating slams.)

    I think tact is great where it works (fbi/msva/dragon flight/orcus) but because of my gear, anywhere else doesn't really hurt me enough making the how spec redundant for me in places outside of that :(.

    Oh, lol, so whenever I'm not on my GF, Edgy turns to you to carry his candy HAMSTER through FBI. Just kidding Sharp, I like practicing my GF skills in your runs.

    I have started to drop Steel Defense for Steel Grace, as I have found that I have less need of using SD to disrespect attacks. Plus, Steel Grace's movement speed bonus is WAY too addicting: once you use it, you feel slow without it.

    Grimah, as a Tactician, I found that I literally get tickled for no damage, to the point where CN run with ACT had Orcus hitting for 2% effectiveness. If I go in the Everfrost zones, I don't take much damage from enemy attacks, but rather their Everfrost damage. There... needs to be some balance between "oneshot" and "lolnodamage"

  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I read a bit of your guide. It's nicely done.

    However I do strongly agree with one thing. steel defense. A tactician should never use it if possible.

    Because the whole point of tactician is to get hurt and generate AP, if you use steel defense you are not taking damage.

    Focus on high HP, cap your DR (at 80% is enough) and then deflect/lifesteal whatever gives you better survivability for your playstyle and just get hurt as much as you can without dying.

    A tactician's health should always being going up and down constantly (hard to do in FBI) to make the most of it's capstone feat.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    grimah said:

    I read a bit of your guide. It's nicely done.

    However I do strongly [dis]agree with one thing. steel defense. A tactician should never use it if possible.

    Because the whole point of tactician is to get hurt and generate AP, if you use steel defense you are not taking damage.

    Focus on high HP, cap your DR (at 80% is enough) and then deflect/lifesteal whatever gives you better survivability for your playstyle and just get hurt as much as you can without dying.

    A tactician's health should always being going up and down constantly (hard to do in FBI) to make the most of it's capstone feat.

    I don't disagree: SD is counterproductive to the AP generating machine that is a Tactician.

    Steel Defense is an leftover from my early days as a Tactician, where I needed that moment of invincibility to take a breather and reset my composure. We also talked earlier about how SD essentially becomes a crutch, and that I became too spoiled by the grace period of SD.

    Ultimately, my build is not geared towards generating AP. My build is a tanking, buffing (as in, increasing our team's damage), and team protection build. The AP Generation is nice bonus, but being an AP battery is not this build's focus.

    EDIT

    This build was also oriented for new tanks. The Tactician's passive bonuses and lack of tank-assisting feats (no Shieldmaster = new tank needs to mind their stamina) ensure that the GF is helping their team enough, so the GF can focus on learning how to tank as well as work with their team.

    I also realized something comical about the Tactician capstone. If the new tank tanks successfully, well, great! If the newbie screws up, no problem, as the Tactician capstone rewards the GF for sucking. XD

  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    apart from that I like it. I specially like that you value lifesteal over deflection. Which is true for any spec (conq/prot/tact) as a GF.

    And deflect should especially be avoided in favor of lifesteal as a tactician since deflecting will halve your AP generation.

    The perfect tactician would have 50%+ lifesteal, just spaming attacks, becoming the ultimate AP battery.

    I would also suggest going 15 into conqueror for jagged blades. The AP aura is useless anyway, since it doesnt work with tactician capstone, cloak, snail, DCs gift of haste etc.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    grimah said:

    apart from that I like it. I specially like that you value lifesteal over deflection. Which is true for any spec (conq/prot/tact) as a GF.

    And deflect should especially be avoided in favor of lifesteal as a tactician since deflecting will halve your AP generation.

    The perfect tactician would have 50%+ lifesteal, just spaming attacks, becoming the ultimate AP battery.

    I would also suggest going 15 into conqueror for jagged blades. The AP aura is useless anyway, since it doesnt work with tactician capstone, cloak, snail, DCs gift of haste etc.

    Rousing Speech?

    It's a 5% multiplicative bonus to AP Gain, multiplying with other AP Gain sources like Recovery or the DC's Holy Fervor. Meaning it affects the team' basic methods to of gaining AP (such as when DPSers damage or kill mobs, or when DCs heal in non Divinity). It's not *alot*, but it's a bonus I'll take none the less.

    Jagged Blades + Lifesteal seems like an interesting concept. While not used for dealing maximum DPS, I can see it being useful for lifesteal or Fighter's Recovery: tag a few mobs with Jagged Blades, and FR's heals or lifesteal should patch you back up. Combined with Wrathful Warrior, this idea will finally allow me to stop complaining that soloing takes forever.

    As a personal choice, I prefer to seperate my Tactician and Conqueror builds, as I don't want the muscle memory from one to interfere with the others.

  • superkwstarassuperkwstaras Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Just saw the new weapons. I cant see any of them helping us on the buff or even survivability. Whats your opinion guys? Here is the link from an early preview: https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/5oeyz0/sneak_peek_at_mod_11_weapon_stats_set_bonuses/
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    Just saw the new weapons. I cant see any of them helping us on the buff or even survivability. Whats your opinion guys?

    I am not sure if we're allowed to link Reddit or "That one site".

    There was also a thread in the DC Class Fourms looking at the Fey and Firesoul weapons.

    Anyways, to my knowledge and speaking with @flensburger99...

    Fey adds AP upon daily use. We generate AP when we do our job, so I can't see this being useful.

    I think the Illusion set increases your DPS against enemies with Shields or TempHP. Useless.

    Firesoul adds extra Defense, but tbh, if you got good enough gear to get Firesoul, you're probably good or near the cap for DR.

    I think the last one has a set bonus that was random ala Chaos Magic. not really a fan of this, tbh.

    Overall, I still think the SH set reigns supreme for a Tactician. None of these new sets add anything to making our team stronger.




  • superkwstarassuperkwstaras Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Sorry for the link, didnt know that. Isn't the SH set the best set, only if your teamates have it too? Other than the SH set i cannot find a single set that suits a Tactician. So i may go for the drowned that adds a little bit of survivabilty.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    Sorry for the link, didnt know that. Isn't the SH set the best set, only if your teamates have it too? Other than the SH set i cannot find a single set that suits a Tactician. So i may go for the drowned that adds a little bit of survivabilty.

    Well, since the link hasn't been taken down (as of the time of writing), then I assume Reddit is safe to link. There are ... other... sites which are in violation of terms of services but are incredibly useful.

    Anyways, SH set still is the best option for a Tactician, as we are all about making our team stronger.

    1 SH set will give the team a small damage bonus and a small damage mitigation source. The bonuses are tiny, but they are the only team buffing set of any artifact weapon, hence why SH set still is (imo) the best for a Tactician.

    The SH set bonus does get stronger with more players using a SH set, but with the advent of the Relic and new weapons, I doubt you'll find any extra people running a SH set. I was only able to find one other player with a SH set, Sickan's Master of Flame debuffer.

    You can choose to pick up Drowned if you want more survivability, as after all, the SH weapons are expensive and only give minute bonuses.

  • superkwstarassuperkwstaras Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Sorry and correct me if i dont understand the tooltip of the SH set, but as i see it, the party members that get buffed are the ones that have a SH set equipped too. ("You and any allies equipped with a set of SH weapons are granted the following")
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    Sorry and correct me if i dont understand the tooltip of the SH set, but as i see it, the party members that get buffed are the ones that have a SH set equipped too. ("You and any allies equipped with a set of SH weapons are granted the following")

    By now, you should know that Cryptic has written tooltips of... questionable quality. Prime examples include Daunting Challenge or United.

    Anyways, if you have a SH set but your teammates don't, your teammates still get the SH set bonus, despite the fact that they aren't using a SH set.

  • superkwstarassuperkwstaras Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Lol i know that tooltips are the worst and I see this is no exception. Ty for clarifying.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I run conq +15 tactition atm (DC+CP+FO) and do like that setup pretty much.
    I specced from Protector to Tact (15 conq), to conquer (15 tact), back to tactition, followed by protector...but in the end after testing Martial Mastery for quite some time (ACT), and since Iron Guard is bugged, I could not find much arguments to not run conqueror.
    Ok Rousing speech , united, inspiring leader and Martial Mastery together are an argument, but I miss that dps/Lifesteal synergy from conq tree wich fits my "personal performance" far better.
    Sure a IV Tactitioner setup would be the best buffer from all, 12% extra debuff from TR on top, but I feel too much sacrifices going that path.
    My setup is debuff/buff orientated as Grimah's, me running T -Fey, rustmonster, chicken , daunting ch., crushing pin, dancing shield.
    Running KV in eSVA i only die by own fault. Dancing shield and cockatrice (due to KV) seems to do well by stunnnig those giants frequently.
    Lately I run with rjc and some days later with a 4k GF from our guild with pure dps setups and my damage is pretty low compared to those ones, but that´s the price.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    I run conq +15 tactition atm (DC+CP+FO) and do like that setup pretty much.
    I specced from Protector to Tact (15 conq), to conquer (15 tact), back to tactition, followed by protector...but in the end after testing Martial Mastery for quite some time (ACT), and since Iron Guard is bugged, I could not find much arguments to not run conqueror.
    Ok Rousing speech , united, inspiring leader and Martial Mastery together are an argument, but I miss that dps/Lifesteal synergy from conq tree wich fits my "personal performance" far better.
    Sure a IV Tactitioner setup would be the best buffer from all, 12% extra debuff from TR on top, but I feel too much sacrifices going that path.
    My setup is debuff/buff orientated as Grimah's, me running T -Fey, rustmonster, chicken , daunting ch., crushing pin, dancing shield.
    Running KV in eSVA i only die by own fault. Dancing shield and cockatrice (due to KV) seems to do well by stunnnig those giants frequently.
    Lately I run with rjc and some days later with a 4k GF from our guild with pure dps setups and my damage is pretty low compared to those ones, but that´s the price.

    Hah, that was with Bethel, Sharp, and WickedDuck, right?

    I actually *wasn't* running my GF at the time. I was running pretty much every other class EXCEPT for my GF.

    I agree in that the "major" bonuses of a full Tactician (Rousing Speech, Inspiring Leader, and Martial Mastery) are somewhat low when compared to the extra potential damage of the Conqueror. Yeah, sure, I can make ITF give 1.5% extra bonus damage, but that's not what I'd call devestating, compared to landing multimillion Anvils and Knee Breakers.

    I hope that some of the damage debuff feats (Surging Tide or Daunting Challenge) get moved to Protector and we get some cooler buffing feats, like Commander's Strike giving a bigger buff, or giving teammates increased Power and/or Critical Severity.

    Bethel is a scary DPS GF. I myself wonder "wait how do he and Snoo do all this stuff?"

  • metikulousmetikulous Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    So, kind of a stupid question but how much defense do we need? I've read in a couple of places that stacking defense in mod 10 is done and that stacking hp and life steal is the preferred route. I assume that's because of the ITF nerf and we still want 80% - 95%.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    So, kind of a stupid question but how much defense do we need? I've read in a couple of places that stacking defense in mod 10 is done and that stacking hp and life steal is the preferred route. I assume that's because of the ITF nerf and we still want 80% - 95%.

    Not a dumb question.

    95% DR is definetly the way to go. Remember to include United as 5% extra DR, even though it doesn't show on the character screen.

    Once you hit 95% DR, stacking Lifesteal and HP will give you your biggest returns on not dying.


  • mitty#8178 mitty Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Hey folks, Mitty here, thank you all for the discussion and thanks rjc9000 for the guide. I have relatively dim question:
    rjc9000 said:

    Remember to include United as 5% extra DR, even though it doesn't show on the character screen.

    Is this true on all platforms, or is it PC-specific?

    I play on PS4, if it matters.

    Thanks,
    Mitty
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User

    Hey folks, Mitty here, thank you all for the discussion and thanks rjc9000 for the guide. I have relatively dim question:

    rjc9000 said:

    Remember to include United as 5% extra DR, even though it doesn't show on the character screen.

    Is this true on all platforms, or is it PC-specific?

    I play on PS4, if it matters.

    Thanks,
    Mitty
    Not a dumb question.

    I am primarily a PC player, and I don't own a PS4 or XBone.

    However, given that the same bugs persist on PC as well as consoles, United is hidden from the buffbar, regardless of playing on PC or console.

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