Exactly. This change can't go live AND they need to do some serious damage control by significantly upping drop rates, making drastic QoL fixes. among other things.
This can't just not go live. They've stirred the hornets nest now, and if they value player retention they have to act swiftly and decisively in the other direction.
Less blatant cash grabs, and more pleasing of the players. Change things in the players favor, NOT theirs. Or this is a dead, sinking game...
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I hope , that they truly listen this time, we have been so perplexed recently, that all feedback was ignored about mod 10 and its grinding/gating level and mod 10.5.. again.. rng x 3..
these things are not as fun as they think we should think they are.
I have no idea why they brought back empowerment, it was failed experiment.. maybe if they made the process easier, better, but instead they made it ten times worse.
I just stopped doing dailies altogether and Im skipping all new content, until they can become reasonable.
I hope they do listen, but my gut tells me they will half HAMSTER some cobble together apology and basically say.. go away if you dont like us.
Trust me, many of us are trying.. not even sure why I bother giving feedback anymore.
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mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited October 2016
I think I understand now why the old skirmishes and dungeons have not been brought back yet. They need to think of a new and creative way to monetize them.
I can see it now - Throne Of Idris comes back, but you need a key to proceed from one area to the next.
twitch.tv/kaligold
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
41 pages of rage, way to go Mongo. How about showing us some good loot in the chests, and be quick about it, before we all loose faith and move on. Just a thought, do it quick enough that we can consider picking up keys on black Friday. If you sell lots of keys maybe your on track, if not don't ever let Mongo drive this bus again.
The best part is all of this happening while most of the PS4 players haven't even been able to play for 2 days straight - with no love for us in sight.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Part of the issue here is that if the loot table is ever changed for the better, which history teaches us it won't be, it is likely to come so long after the key change, that most of us have already abandoned all hope of it ever coming, and just moved on to a game with a worthwhile reward system.
The way I interpret OP, they are going to work on loot tables post key change, while a plan for these changes should have been made long before this announcement.
I'm sure the plan has been made and will be implemented eventually. F2P games make most of their money from Impulse Buying and people Impatience... that is just how it is. If the Dev's spent their time spoon feeding their player base and rewarding spaztastic responses to their actions.. tehy would go broke and we would move on to another game anyway.. because this game would be unprofitable.
Time and time again... I have profited greatly by the impulsers rage quiting the game and leaving me with less and less competition in the market.. or for running mates.
And I prepare to deal with the changes before hand... so I don't get stuck.
Plan ahead... Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.. and this change won't hardly effect you at all.. except to make the game better.. and your account/guild/alliance stronger.. If you adequately prepare for it. (and the possible future changes to loot),
Nothing is stoping you frommaking tons of keys before Nov 8
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
With their current direction I'm surprised they haven't tried to monetize the PS4 login with some more RNG; 100 Zen for five attempts to login with a 10% success rate.
If this won't effect you, then you live under a rock and are anti-social. It has already impacted the game. Some of the best players have already tossed in the towel with this change being the last straw RIP @sharpedge. Filling your guild with people to play with will be harder than ever. Finding geared and skilled people to interact with will be harder than ever.
Indeed! Start of the week: a full rank 20 guild I'm a member of did it's usual DF easily downing all dragons, twice a day, sometimes several and a bunch of big HEs afterwards, followed by several FBI and CN runs with several parties. End of the week: two DFs with only dragons, small parties doing the minimum of medium HEs, after more than half an hour one party did one MC run - and for that required help from the alliance to get 5 people together... ...well done, cryptic. Everyones taking a sabattical, unsure if there's any reason to continue, looking into other games, watching this game sinking in morbid fascination.
It willkill T1s also, without the chance at premium loot the second chest had noone will want to spend 5k on a key for 3k in loot. So the already overrun eToS and CN will be the only dungeons left in the game to play. I would consider edemo and the demonic skirmishes dead with this change also as the rewards are small and with twisted nolonger being BiS weapons for most builds no one will want to bother with it.
Even all that only for new players or new toons, who either need small amounts of AD, Protector or elementary marks or only have weapon from EE. But those will face the challange to get a competent party together, with alle the better equipped players unmotivated to acompany them for a dungeon run.
Typical of Meat Grinder Guilds... The biggest and most developed guilds usually have the least commited people... to the guild or the game in question.
Jus sayin... I've played MMO's for 22 years.. this is always the case.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
In the 1+ Year that I've played this game I rolled with the punches and tried to keep looking positively at the changed that were being made, got my wife playing this game and a few of my friends because I believed it could be an enjoyable experience. Every nerf I tried to see the good in their changes and tried to play devils advocate with people that b!tch3d and complained about the changes being made... I believe this is the final straw, now in my 30's I have never ever left a comment on any gaming forum, but this is the dumbest change i've seen in a while. I used to pay for a pack of keys when I used the daily one to get something that was worth it, but now i'm not even going to bother. I'm on the band wagon with the rest of the players. you can go to hell with this HAMSTER.
Even if they make the loot better, it will still change how people play. People currently group up and run Lostmauth, Shores, Castle Never, & EDemo 10+ times in a row. If you run it once, use your key, then you're out of keys, people will stop doing that and thus stop playing.
Once you lose a few healers or tanks, it becomes impossible to make a group and more people will fall off. I don't think you'll find a guild with 5 people willing to spend money on keys every single day, and PUG groups can rarely finish more difficult content in my experience.
If you think people want to grind a campaign for a week to make a key and run a dungeon once, that's not what people do, and you'd need the whole group to have the keys made.
No one seems to remember... you get 3 chances in a dungeon to get loot (with a couple exceptions)... 1 at the boss.. 2 at the epic dungeon chest, 3 at the campaign chest... at least in elol.. way back in mod 6... one guy got horn of blasting from the boss and the chest... in the same run. .
All of you VIP guys that have hundreads of epic dungeon keys stacked and have stopped everm opening the daily pack with them.. guess what? cha ching.
The only real effect this will have is on people without VIP and on people that are wanting that 3rd loot chance. IDK about the SVA... but FBI has an epic dungeon chest.. but the Relic gear (afaik) only comes from the Campaign chest.. which come on.. 10 TT supplies and 2k Voni.. you can't make some keys? I ahve 10 sitting on my GWF now. Ofc I have 6 t00ns that can do FBI. so some of them get keys made and stacked because I can't find groups to run 6 toons thorugh an hour dungeon a day .
There are work arounds.. and YES.. the loot needs to be better.
But every dungeon gives you a free loot chance.. and at least one key option.. sometimes 2.
OFC, some of you say.. you aren't going to get VIP... dude.. your loss... it is by FAR the most profitable thing an account can have... ever.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
Even if they make the loot better, it will still change how people play. People currently group up and run Lostmauth, Shores, Castle Never, & EDemo 10+ times in a row. If you run it once, use your key, then you're out of keys, people will stop doing that and thus stop playing.
Once you lose a few healers or tanks, it becomes impossible to make a group and more people will fall off. I don't think you'll find a guild with 5 people willing to spend money on keys every single day, and PUG groups can rarely finish more difficult content in my experience.
If you think people want to grind a campaign for a week to make a key and run a dungeon once, that's not what people do, and you'd need the whole group to have the keys made.
No one seems to remember... you get 3 chances in a dungeon to get loot (with a couple exceptions)... 1 at the boss.. 2 at the epic dungeon chest, 3 at the campaign chest... at least in elol.. way back in mod 6... one guy got horn of blasting from the boss and the chest... in the same run. .
All of you VIP guys that have hundreads of epic dungeon keys stacked and have stopped everm opening the daily pack with them.. guess what? cha ching.
The only real effect this will have is on people without VIP and on people that are wanting that 3rd loot chance. IDK about the SVA... but FBI has an epic dungeon chest.. but the Relic gear (afaik) only comes from the Campaign chest.. which come on.. 10 TT supplies and 2k Voni.. you can't make some keys? I ahve 10 sitting on my GWF now. Ofc I have 6 t00ns that can do FBI. so some of them get keys made and stacked because I can't find groups to run 6 toons thorugh an hour dungeon a day .
There are work arounds.. and YES.. the loot needs to be better.
But every dungeon gives you a free loot chance.. and at least one key option.. sometimes 2.
OFC, some of you say.. you aren't going to get VIP... dude.. your loss... it is by FAR the most profitable thing an account can have... ever.
Did you do FBI? The box inside the box is in the second chest only ! The new raid will be the same.
Also boss drops were nerfed significantly and repeatedly to the point most do not drop anything at all. We are not in mod 6 now, we are at mod 10 and if you get a peridot it's an epic loot from the boss.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,295Arc User
No one seems to remember... you get 3 chances in a dungeon to get loot (with a couple exceptions)... 1 at the boss.. 2 at the epic dungeon chest, 3 at the campaign chest... at least in elol.. way back in mod 6... one guy got horn of blasting from the boss and the chest... in the same run. .
All of you VIP guys that have hundreads of epic dungeon keys stacked and have stopped everm opening the daily pack with them.. guess what? cha ching.
The only real effect this will have is on people without VIP and on people that are wanting that 3rd loot chance. IDK about the SVA... but FBI has an epic dungeon chest.. but the Relic gear (afaik) only comes from the Campaign chest.. which come on.. 10 TT supplies and 2k Voni.. you can't make some keys? I ahve 10 sitting on my GWF now. Ofc I have 6 t00ns that can do FBI. so some of them get keys made and stacked because I can't find groups to run 6 toons thorugh an hour dungeon a day .
There are work arounds.. and YES.. the loot needs to be better.
But every dungeon gives you a free loot chance.. and at least one key option.. sometimes 2.
OFC, some of you say.. you aren't going to get VIP... dude.. your loss... it is by FAR the most profitable thing an account can have... ever.
I don't think you understand. It is not about the existing content. It is about the future content. There are 3 chests in the new content. All of them needs a special key. Not the VIP Epic dungeon key. You can buy that 3 keys from Zen store or you gather significant amount of resource to make the keys. That implies you mostly can play that new content once in one day or 2 days (if you work hard) if you want to play free. If you use Zen to buy key and the loot sucks, you are losing money in every run.
Think about you are running elol without any VIP epic dungeon key. That will be the situation because VIP epic dungeon key is irrelevant in the new content.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
As players have said...logically in an MMO if you use a CONSUMABLE key to open a lock (chest) then the key should be CONSUMED when OPENING the lock whether you want the gear or not. We have had people report it to us because they felt like it was a bug and an exploit.
If keys are consumables, then WHY THE ---- AREN'T THEY IN THE "CONSUMABLES" SECTION OF THE AH? They're "Miscellaneous" instead. Even the tooltip doesn't state that the key will be consumed after use at all (at least on Epic Dungeon Keys).
Good question. However I don't much pay mind to labels such as that. Seriously I never bother to look at what the developers of any game label something as. Labeling should be apparent in the actions the item does regardless of the arbitrary labeling of something.
Looking at the description of the original Dungeon Chest Keys: "allows you to open..." Not labelled consumable but it allows you to "open" the chest. Not allows you to take the loot. It allows you to open the chest.
The players who created the wiki pages obviously noticed they were consumable. And yeah, they were edited a few days ago after this announcement but looking back thought the history they always opened with "The < Key > is a consumable key that can be created..."
The keys are not permanent. They are consumed when used. They were consumed, as you know, when you took the loot regardless of whether they were put in the consumable section of the AH or had a consumable tag added to them.
However, logically they should be consumed when they are used. Rationally they are used when you open the lock on the chest. That is both what the tooltip says and what logic tells us.
I get being upset that the loot isn't worth what is inside and feeling that the keys need to be worth the change. I seriously do. That's where the argument should lay. Not with "this wasn't a bug."
Logically it was a bug but that doesn't change the fact the reason people are upset, minus the poor wording, is that the loot doesn't make players feel the loot is worth the costs of the key or that they do not trust or want to trust that improvements will come after this announcement. In order for people to buy in to the idea of this fix they need to see the plans to improve loot first.
Even if they make the loot better, it will still change how people play. People currently group up and run Lostmauth, Shores, Castle Never, & EDemo 10+ times in a row. If you run it once, use your key, then you're out of keys, people will stop doing that and thus stop playing.
Once you lose a few healers or tanks, it becomes impossible to make a group and more people will fall off. I don't think you'll find a guild with 5 people willing to spend money on keys every single day, and PUG groups can rarely finish more difficult content in my experience.
If you think people want to grind a campaign for a week to make a key and run a dungeon once, that's not what people do, and you'd need the whole group to have the keys made.
No one seems to remember... you get 3 chances in a dungeon to get loot (with a couple exceptions)... 1 at the boss.. 2 at the epic dungeon chest, 3 at the campaign chest... at least in elol.. way back in mod 6... one guy got horn of blasting from the boss and the chest... in the same run. .
All of you VIP guys that have hundreads of epic dungeon keys stacked and have stopped everm opening the daily pack with them.. guess what? cha ching.
The only real effect this will have is on people without VIP and on people that are wanting that 3rd loot chance. IDK about the SVA... but FBI has an epic dungeon chest.. but the Relic gear (afaik) only comes from the Campaign chest.. which come on.. 10 TT supplies and 2k Voni.. you can't make some keys? I ahve 10 sitting on my GWF now. Ofc I have 6 t00ns that can do FBI. so some of them get keys made and stacked because I can't find groups to run 6 toons thorugh an hour dungeon a day .
There are work arounds.. and YES.. the loot needs to be better.
But every dungeon gives you a free loot chance.. and at least one key option.. sometimes 2.
OFC, some of you say.. you aren't going to get VIP... dude.. your loss... it is by FAR the most profitable thing an account can have... ever.
Did you do FBI? The box inside the box is in the second chest only ! The new raid will be the same.
Also boss drops were nerfed significantly and repeatedly to the point most do not drop anything at all. We are not in mod 6 now, we are at mod 10 and if you get a peridot it's an epic loot from the boss.
This!!!!^^^^^^ All we get is peridots most of the time. That's garbage, utter garbage. The loot sucks, the keys sucks, this whole situation sucks.
Algorithm. Step 1: Nerf this Step 2: Rage start Step 3: Rage end Step 4: Check delta % incomes Step 5: If delta % < 0 then send message "We listen you" and "give a +0.1% chance for an aqua" else do nothing and go step 1.
Very true, wuld be nice to know how many people drop the game between the stages
No one drops the game: they have 12 mln players.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
yes.. thier metrics say they have 12 million players!
lol.. lol..
This proposal makes everything CN and newer not worth running at all.
Lets all run around in circles and do HES! They seem to think that is the thing we all love to do.. thier metrics show that right? RIGHT?
BTW it appears we cant post url images anymore on this thread.
And now they culling, as I see dozens of posts removed..
typical response.. head in the sand..
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
The more I think about this, the more upset I get actually.
THey are going to remove content from the game.. by making it physically not worth running at all.. CAN ANYONE even thing about this for a second.
Jeepers Creepers.
Logic dictates something is amiss.. when you run dungeons to lose progression. WTF..
WORST design of all time.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Dc skills are notorious to be bugged.
Bear your sins doesnt even proc from my memory .. I dont remember the last time it actually worked.
There were ages that chains couldnt lay over correctly , making it a wasted encounter 20-30% of the time.
many other things over and over..
Its not that they couldnt fix DG, its just that they dont have "time " to.. that excuse is used ad nasuem.. they dont have time to do a QOL review, to fix bugs.. all they have time to do is apparently think up and implement monetization schemes that make the game boring as HAMSTER.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
@Silverkelt stop using mobile if possible. The Vanilla staff broke it. I even just found out I can't even quote on mobile.
You are free to post images and a ton of other things but the incompetent people at Vanilla decided to break more features when they did whatever they did last week.
@Silverkelt stop using mobile if possible. The Vanilla staff broke it. I even just found out I can't even quote on mobile.
You are free to post images and a ton of other things but the incompetent people at Vanilla decided to break more features when they did whatever they did last week.
Aye, when I go to the forums on my phone or kindle, have to check mark to show as desktop each time because the way mobile is fubared. Then add on all the other issues... seen and unseen... I really do long for how our forums were back on VB.
12mln ADVENTURERS. I have 5, for example. I wonder how many play it actually, I keep seeing the same personae over and over again. Steam stats say there's a constant decline (LOL, that bugged word... :>) in numbers, but I suppose most just run Arc. I run Steam when home, and Arc when in my office.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Most of us have had a chance to vent by now. If you're just joining the discussion, feel free to do your venting. For the rest of us, let's try and focus the discussion on productive ways forward.
I'm not trying to close down the discussion with this statement. On the contrary. Cryptic is spending time reading this thread, looking for a way forward that meets their design objectives and also the needs of their customers. It's an opportunity to focus the discussion on helping Cryptic know what players think would be a balanced approach. Let's use it wisely.
Most of us have had a chance to vent by now. If you're just joining the discussion, feel free to do your venting. For the rest of us, let's try and focus the discussion on productive ways forward.
I'm not trying to close down the discussion with this statement. On the contrary. Cryptic is spending time reading this thread, looking for a way forward that meets their design objectives and also the needs of their customers. It's an opportunity to focus the discussion on helping Cryptic know what players think would be a balanced approach. Let's use it wisely.
What kind of ideas are they looking for? On the most basic level, my suggestion would be to stop changing the game to cater only to whales, and start catering to the audience of adults who play who understand that servers and game development cost money and who are willing to support the game as long as it's fun and not toxic controversy every other announcement. Should I write up full details on how I would go about shifting to that kind of environment?
Right now every major change is to milk more money from the whales at the expense of most other types of players. So number 1 idea is to stop shifting in that direction. Idea 2 is start shifting in another direction, so they can make their money and plenty of other players can feel satisfied without all this toxicity.
Happy to help more if you want. Not sure how this is going to work if we have to funnel all our ideas through you without direct feedback from the devs. I don't see why they can't make an appearance themselves.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Happy to help more if you want. Not sure how this is going to work if we have to funnel all our ideas through you without direct feedback from the devs. I don't see why they can't make an appearance themselves.
@panderus made a statement several pages back that they are reading what has been said here and taking it seriously.
I very much hope that they will more actively engage in this particular discussion and in other discussions about what players actually want from the game. Suggestions aren't filtered through me in any way. I don't speak directly with the developers. I do know for sure that they are reading and thinking hard about what is written here.
They will likely just find the next thing to Nerf into $$$$. Further alienating the 1% from the majority. Good job, first you pull dungeons, then you pull Coalgate, now revamping dungeon keys... you have lost my trust. These are vital parts of the game and should've been figured out before its launch. I'm scared to see what's coming next...
However, logically they should be consumed when they are used. Rationally they are used when you open the lock on the chest. That is both what the tooltip says and what logic tells us.
Ah.. no? There is no logic of keys getting consumed. Mmorpgs are probably handling it this way to prevent that one single key opens the same chest over and over again. That keys are consumable in mmos might be understandable, the loot chest resets every run, so the key should probably too, but the statement "logic tells us that keys should be consumed on use" is just non-sense.
@panderus made a statement several pages back that they are reading what has been said here and taking it seriously.
I very much hope that they will more actively engage in this particular discussion and in other discussions about what players actually want from the game. Suggestions aren't filtered through me in any way. I don't speak directly with the developers. I do know for sure that they are reading and thinking hard about what is written here.
Okay, fair enough. But most of the major changes that need to happen first are directly related to the ways in which the company makes money from players in this game, and I don't personally believe the devs have much if any say as to the ways they make money from players. Like this change to the keys, I would guess that the order for this change came from Perfect World.
So the players can recommend changes to the devs, but to do so we need to know what kind of changes the devs can really make, otherwise we are wasting time by coming up with ideas and discussing them. And then those players who try to help will feel ignored if there is no real improvement over time. If the devs have no control over how the game makes money, then all our suggestions have to keep that in mind and work around it. If the devs do have that control, that makes it a heck of a lot easier for us to work with them on this.
But I think most believe (even if it's only speculation) that Perfect World decides how they make money and WOTC decides the major details of the next mod. And Cryptic fills in all the details.
Many of us probably have a ton of ideas on how they can make money and keep customers happy at the same time, but is that really within the discretion of the dev team? I realize this isn't something you can answer, but this is my reply to you as I don't see how we as players can really help without knowing if we can even really help...
Comments
This can't just not go live. They've stirred the hornets nest now, and if they value player retention they have to act swiftly and decisively in the other direction.
Less blatant cash grabs, and more pleasing of the players. Change things in the players favor, NOT theirs. Or this is a dead, sinking game...
these things are not as fun as they think we should think they are.
I have no idea why they brought back empowerment, it was failed experiment.. maybe if they made the process easier, better, but instead they made it ten times worse.
I just stopped doing dailies altogether and Im skipping all new content, until they can become reasonable.
I hope they do listen, but my gut tells me they will half HAMSTER some cobble together apology and basically say.. go away if you dont like us.
Trust me, many of us are trying.. not even sure why I bother giving feedback anymore.
I can see it now - Throne Of Idris comes back, but you need a key to proceed from one area to the next.
If they do this I will stop playing the game. I promise.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Time and time again... I have profited greatly by the impulsers rage quiting the game and leaving me with less and less competition in the market.. or for running mates.
And I prepare to deal with the changes before hand... so I don't get stuck.
Plan ahead... Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.. and this change won't hardly effect you at all.. except to make the game better.. and your account/guild/alliance stronger.. If you adequately prepare for it. (and the possible future changes to loot),
Nothing is stoping you frommaking tons of keys before Nov 8
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
But those will face the challange to get a competent party together, with alle the better equipped players unmotivated to acompany them for a dungeon run.
Typical of Meat Grinder Guilds... The biggest and most developed guilds usually have the least commited people... to the guild or the game in question.
Jus sayin... I've played MMO's for 22 years.. this is always the case.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
All of you VIP guys that have hundreads of epic dungeon keys stacked and have stopped everm opening the daily pack with them.. guess what? cha ching.
The only real effect this will have is on people without VIP and on people that are wanting that 3rd loot chance. IDK about the SVA... but FBI has an epic dungeon chest.. but the Relic gear (afaik) only comes from the Campaign chest.. which come on.. 10 TT supplies and 2k Voni.. you can't make some keys? I ahve 10 sitting on my GWF now. Ofc I have 6 t00ns that can do FBI. so some of them get keys made and stacked because I can't find groups to run 6 toons thorugh an hour dungeon a day
There are work arounds.. and YES.. the loot needs to be better.
But every dungeon gives you a free loot chance.. and at least one key option.. sometimes 2.
OFC, some of you say.. you aren't going to get VIP... dude.. your loss... it is by FAR the most profitable thing an account can have... ever.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
The box inside the box is in the second chest only !
The new raid will be the same.
Also boss drops were nerfed significantly and repeatedly to the point most do not drop anything at all. We are not in mod 6 now, we are at mod 10 and if you get a peridot it's an epic loot from the boss.
There are 3 chests in the new content. All of them needs a special key. Not the VIP Epic dungeon key.
You can buy that 3 keys from Zen store or you gather significant amount of resource to make the keys.
That implies you mostly can play that new content once in one day or 2 days (if you work hard) if you want to play free.
If you use Zen to buy key and the loot sucks, you are losing money in every run.
Think about you are running elol without any VIP epic dungeon key. That will be the situation because VIP epic dungeon key is irrelevant in the new content.
However I don't much pay mind to labels such as that. Seriously I never bother to look at what the developers of any game label something as. Labeling should be apparent in the actions the item does regardless of the arbitrary labeling of something.
Looking at the description of the original Dungeon Chest Keys: "allows you to open..."
Not labelled consumable but it allows you to "open" the chest. Not allows you to take the loot. It allows you to open the chest.
Legendary Dragon Key, Mystic Dragon Key, Arcane Dragon Key
The players who created the wiki pages obviously noticed they were consumable.
And yeah, they were edited a few days ago after this announcement but looking back thought the history they always opened with "The < Key > is a consumable key that can be created..."
The keys are not permanent. They are consumed when used. They were consumed, as you know, when you took the loot regardless of whether they were put in the consumable section of the AH or had a consumable tag added to them.
However, logically they should be consumed when they are used. Rationally they are used when you open the lock on the chest. That is both what the tooltip says and what logic tells us.
I get being upset that the loot isn't worth what is inside and feeling that the keys need to be worth the change. I seriously do. That's where the argument should lay. Not with "this wasn't a bug."
Logically it was a bug but that doesn't change the fact the reason people are upset, minus the poor wording, is that the loot doesn't make players feel the loot is worth the costs of the key or that they do not trust or want to trust that improvements will come after this announcement. In order for people to buy in to the idea of this fix they need to see the plans to improve loot first.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
lol.. lol..
This proposal makes everything CN and newer not worth running at all.
Lets all run around in circles and do HES! They seem to think that is the thing we all love to do.. thier metrics show that right? RIGHT?
BTW it appears we cant post url images anymore on this thread.
And now they culling, as I see dozens of posts removed..
typical response.. head in the sand..
THey are going to remove content from the game.. by making it physically not worth running at all.. CAN ANYONE even thing about this for a second.
Jeepers Creepers.
Logic dictates something is amiss.. when you run dungeons to lose progression. WTF..
WORST design of all time.
Bear your sins doesnt even proc from my memory .. I dont remember the last time it actually worked.
There were ages that chains couldnt lay over correctly , making it a wasted encounter 20-30% of the time.
many other things over and over..
Its not that they couldnt fix DG, its just that they dont have "time " to.. that excuse is used ad nasuem.. they dont have time to do a QOL review, to fix bugs.. all they have time to do is apparently think up and implement monetization schemes that make the game boring as HAMSTER.
You are free to post images and a ton of other things but the incompetent people at Vanilla decided to break more features when they did whatever they did last week.
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I'm not trying to close down the discussion with this statement. On the contrary. Cryptic is spending time reading this thread, looking for a way forward that meets their design objectives and also the needs of their customers. It's an opportunity to focus the discussion on helping Cryptic know what players think would be a balanced approach. Let's use it wisely.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Right now every major change is to milk more money from the whales at the expense of most other types of players. So number 1 idea is to stop shifting in that direction. Idea 2 is start shifting in another direction, so they can make their money and plenty of other players can feel satisfied without all this toxicity.
Happy to help more if you want. Not sure how this is going to work if we have to funnel all our ideas through you without direct feedback from the devs. I don't see why they can't make an appearance themselves.
I very much hope that they will more actively engage in this particular discussion and in other discussions about what players actually want from the game. Suggestions aren't filtered through me in any way. I don't speak directly with the developers. I do know for sure that they are reading and thinking hard about what is written here.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
So the players can recommend changes to the devs, but to do so we need to know what kind of changes the devs can really make, otherwise we are wasting time by coming up with ideas and discussing them. And then those players who try to help will feel ignored if there is no real improvement over time. If the devs have no control over how the game makes money, then all our suggestions have to keep that in mind and work around it. If the devs do have that control, that makes it a heck of a lot easier for us to work with them on this.
But I think most believe (even if it's only speculation) that Perfect World decides how they make money and WOTC decides the major details of the next mod. And Cryptic fills in all the details.
Many of us probably have a ton of ideas on how they can make money and keep customers happy at the same time, but is that really within the discretion of the dev team? I realize this isn't something you can answer, but this is my reply to you as I don't see how we as players can really help without knowing if we can even really help...