VIP and Astral Diamonds

omegarealities

With the mod coming out next week and the elimination of Astral Diamonds for invoking. I am wondering what will replace the 10% bonus Astral Diamonds you get at level 5 VIP. Now, I realize that 10% of zero is zero, but really?

xrawcarnage

You get 10% for running dungeons, skirmishes, weekly, dailies, etc . So I'm sure PW doesn't care to much about the small amount you get from invoking.

mordekai

I imagine you will gain 10% of the extra AD you get as the revised invoke bonus.
You will still get AD as part of the invoking system, simply as earned bonuses.
In fact on characters who you actually play, rather than farm drones, you will have the chance to earn more from invoking than you currently do, but let's not let stuff like facts get in the way of a good moan eh?

zebular

You can read more about this here, here, and here. I'll sum it up with a couple quotes through.

strumslinger said:

Invocation now gives a Rough AD bonus instead of granting Rough AD directly. The bonus Rough AD awarded is moderately larger than what was previously granted as straight Rough AD. In general, Invoking while playing other Rough AD generating activities will see a reasonable increase in AD earned, while Invoking only will see a drastic decrease.

zebular said:

In case any of this helps to understand, here's some more clarification from the Devs regarding the Invocation changes:

Some clarifications about the Invocation changes:

• There is no ""expiration"" of the bonus. It won't ever go away. As long as you are actively playing the character, the new system should not leave you any worse off.
  
• In fact, the new system leaves you better off (again, if you are playing the character) by about +20%, because it just gives you that much more AD (at L70 -- slight variations at lower levels, just due to rounding).
  
• There is supposed to be a UI treatment that makes this all clear. Looks like that isn't in yet . But it basically looks like a glory boost, if you've ever used one of those. It's a buff icon that tells you how many more points of +50% earn rate you have left.
  
• There is a cap on the total boost value you can get (all numerics in any game need some kind of cap, computers don't like infinities), but it's super-big. It's set to 100,000 AD, which is about a month's worth of boost. So you could invoke all day every day for a month (ok, 27 days to be precise) and still not lose a thing (again, in fact you get +20%). Past a month, and you'd hit the cap if you invoked the full amount every day that month but never played anything that earned you AD.
  
• Characters that you never play with -- only invoke -- are the only ones that lose out. Which was the intention: more rewards for playing, less for characters you don't play.

The reason we made this change was because was saw that Invocation was the largest source of AD that could be generated by not actually playing the game, this is not good. It was very apparent when comparing the PC numbers with what was happening on Xbox, VERY different playstyles but the vast difference between the two groups suggested this was a problem area.

The change we made will actually increase the amount of AD you would earn if combined with actual gameplay. You can even bank it for a week and play all on the weekend, you just have to do something to actually earn that AD now instead of having a bot army.

Just to confirm, there is not reset time on the bonus AD, there is a limit that can be stored which should not be able to be hit with a week of only invoking or more. Again, if you play ""normally"" you should be able to claim more AD from this than you would have previously. It really should only affect characters who ONLY invoked and did nothing else. There will be an minor UI update to make this change more transparent to the user later on and planned for the Module 10 launch.

zman81420

A few questions pertaining to the quotes. So for the invocation boost to be fully maxed we have to invoke the maximum amount per day to recieve the largest bonus. Secondly the boss to itself is that on a daily reset? It reads like it carry over but seems unlikely. I suppose this will help out some when a future 2x AD rolls around again. Throw me a scenario as if you were logged in and playing please @zebular

omegarealities

Thanks for the info. But what is the definition of "actively playing the character"? What do I have to do each day to make the keep the character active?

mordekai

omegarealities#7219 said:

Thanks for the info. But what is the definition of "actively playing the character"? What do I have to do each day to make the keep the character active?

It simply means going out and doing stuff.
Go on a dungeon or skirmish, stuff like that. It's simply a change in the game to make people EARN their AD. Which obviously will upset people who want them without having to put the work in.
If you don't play a character you can't take advantage of Glory bonuses, exactly the same will apply on AD from invoke.

cerickson187

The whole playing the character is flawed if you only get it from the things which give you raw AD since there are many things people do that do not generate AD which most would consider playing the game.

I guess running Tiamat or or doing events such as summer festival, Respens, running heroics, farming for moats, doing story missions outside of weeklies or the Mantol Dearth daily, stuff in strongholds and many other things are not considered actively playing the game.

mordekai

I'm sure there may be one or two players out there who deliberately avoid earning ADs but still want them...
To them I would say, (after asking WHY they don't do stuff that earns AD) "Tough luck, try a skirmish you might enjoy it..."

But they aren't really the issue. The people who don't like this are the ones with 30 farmers who are going to lose out on a couple of million AD a month.
The thing is, if no one had gotten greedy, and just invoked on a few inactive toons this probably wouldn't be happening.
When you throw the dice on what is essentially a big exploit, you take the chance that one day the loophole will be closed, and that's why they're doing it.

Don't blame the game for removing an exploit, blame the people who just got too greedy.

zephyriah

mordekai#1901 said:

I'm sure there may be one or two players out there who deliberately avoid earning ADs but still want them...
To them I would say, (after asking WHY they don't do stuff that earns AD) "Tough luck, try a skirmish you might enjoy it..."

Don't blame the game for removing an exploit, blame the people who just got too greedy.

That's part of it, but the disturbing issue is the tendency to redefine "playing the game". At one time Professions was playing the game, it is a feature after all. Invoking was playing the game, you even had a quest to learn it. What's next to go, my guess salvaging will be decided to be "not playing the game" the next time they want to restrict AD coming into the game.

They shouldn't use bogus excuses like we want players to earn playing the game, some players prefer crafting/professions, some hate dungeons, some hate skirmishes etc. but they are still playing the game. They should just come out and say that they need to reduce AD coming into the game because it is the way they wish to control the economy and this item is the one they have chosen to address. No unbelievable excuses for why, just do it.

cerickson187

Do we even know if salvaging will be able to get the bonus AD that a character has built up?

zephyriah

cerickson187 said:

Do we even know if salvaging will be able to get the bonus AD that a character has built up?

Yes, it will. But the amounts earned from the items is being changed soon if not with the update. Many will be lower, some will be higher but the net effect seems to be lower for easier to come by items.

cerickson187

That much i know about. But will be nice to be able to buy them and hold onto then for when double AD comes around

mordekai

zephyriah said:

mordekai#1901 said:

I'm sure there may be one or two players out there who deliberately avoid earning ADs but still want them...
To them I would say, (after asking WHY they don't do stuff that earns AD) "Tough luck, try a skirmish you might enjoy it..."

Don't blame the game for removing an exploit, blame the people who just got too greedy.

That's part of it, but the disturbing issue is the tendency to redefine "playing the game". At one time Professions was playing the game, it is a feature after all. Invoking was playing the game, you even had a quest to learn it. What's next to go, my guess salvaging will be decided to be "not playing the game" the next time they want to restrict AD coming into the game.

They shouldn't use bogus excuses like we want players to earn playing the game, some players prefer crafting/professions, some hate dungeons, some hate skirmishes etc. but they are still playing the game. They should just come out and say that they need to reduce AD coming into the game because it is the way they wish to control the economy and this item is the one they have chosen to address. No unbelievable excuses for why, just do it.

Its neither disturbing, nor redefining. It's simply evolving.
As the game, or any similar game, grows and new material and classes and opportunities to develope are added older elements become outmoded, outdated, or even redundant.
As small exploits that originate with just a few people become more widespread and viewed as "the norm" measures need to be taken to restore balance, and encourage people to play the game the way it was intended.
That simply means putting in the graft to earn stuff and not abusing loopholes.
If people can't adapt along with the game as it changes and grows they're probably better off playing chess or minesweeper.

cscriv79

from what I had read over on the PC forums it takes about 4 hours of playtime on the character to get the max % increase, they had an issue where by you would have to invoke then leave the character for 4 hours then invoke again to get your % increase then do all your RAD earnings.
Hopefully this has changed and all will be merry and fine now.
Why did they let an account have 50 character slots in the first place lol.

zephyriah

mordekai#1901 said:

zephyriah said:

mordekai#1901 said:

I'm sure there may be one or two players out there who deliberately avoid earning ADs but still want them...
To them I would say, (after asking WHY they don't do stuff that earns AD) "Tough luck, try a skirmish you might enjoy it..."

Don't blame the game for removing an exploit, blame the people who just got too greedy.

That's part of it, but the disturbing issue is the tendency to redefine "playing the game". At one time Professions was playing the game, it is a feature after all. Invoking was playing the game, you even had a quest to learn it. What's next to go, my guess salvaging will be decided to be "not playing the game" the next time they want to restrict AD coming into the game.

They shouldn't use bogus excuses like we want players to earn playing the game, some players prefer crafting/professions, some hate dungeons, some hate skirmishes etc. but they are still playing the game. They should just come out and say that they need to reduce AD coming into the game because it is the way they wish to control the economy and this item is the one they have chosen to address. No unbelievable excuses for why, just do it.

Its neither disturbing, nor redefining. It's simply evolving.

I disagree. If they had done as I suggested and simply stated that the economy needed an adjustment and the way they wished to do it was removing AD for Invoking (or Leadership). That would be evolving.

Claiming that functions designed into the game to appeal to a wider player base are "not playing the game" is redefining an event/task.

They need to to be more straightforward instead of using fabricated excuses. I don't object to the removal of Ad from invoking, or leadership, or any other in the future such as salvaging. I object to the ridiculous excuses they manufacture.

kclowe

All arguments aside, many of the previous points are valid. What this boils down to here is the fact that another chunck of our AD making capability is being removed. Why is not important. Ever since this game came out it seems its been one thing after another being taken away. Mod after mod our ability to earn gets more limited a restricted. Im not going to go through the list. We all know whats been taken away or changed and made harder. This is what bothers me. I can care less about this instance really. The AD from invoking on my 7 hoarding alts doesn't add up to much anyway. Its the principal that another feature is being removed.

mordekai

zephyriah said:

mordekai#1901 said:

zephyriah said:

mordekai#1901 said:

I'm sure there may be one or two players out there who deliberately avoid earning ADs but still want them...
To them I would say, (after asking WHY they don't do stuff that earns AD) "Tough luck, try a skirmish you might enjoy it..."

Don't blame the game for removing an exploit, blame the people who just got too greedy.

That's part of it, but the disturbing issue is the tendency to redefine "playing the game". At one time Professions was playing the game, it is a feature after all. Invoking was playing the game, you even had a quest to learn it. What's next to go, my guess salvaging will be decided to be "not playing the game" the next time they want to restrict AD coming into the game.

They shouldn't use bogus excuses like we want players to earn playing the game, some players prefer crafting/professions, some hate dungeons, some hate skirmishes etc. but they are still playing the game. They should just come out and say that they need to reduce AD coming into the game because it is the way they wish to control the economy and this item is the one they have chosen to address. No unbelievable excuses for why, just do it.

Its neither disturbing, nor redefining. It's simply evolving.

I disagree. If they had done as I suggested and simply stated that the economy needed an adjustment and the way they wished to do it was removing AD for Invoking (or Leadership). That would be evolving.

Claiming that functions designed into the game to appeal to a wider player base are "not playing the game" is redefining an event/task.

They need to to be more straightforward instead of using fabricated excuses. I don't object to the removal of Ad from invoking, or leadership, or any other in the future such as salvaging. I object to the ridiculous excuses they manufacture.

That's just semantics. However you dress it up the invoke system was being abused and they changed it to put the emphasis on earning them rather than getting them for nothing and passing them on.
Either reason, be it the one they gave or the one you choose to believe, is a good enough reason for the change.

mahburg

Sorry not seeing how this has ever been a problem on xbox, Typical max number of alts from longstanding players is about five in my experience.
Another change being dumped on us due to the Botting issues on PC imho!
Its just like the Skill nodes nerf, when are we going to stop getting shafted due to activities on PC?

wdj40

Personally I will be glad to not have to watch so many loading screens in the future.

I created 7 Alt's, one of every class, as I had every intention of playing all of them to death. But I am someone who has to completely max out a character before moving on to the next. So I am still on my main HR although I did spend a fair bit of time with each of the other characters.

But due to how much time it takes to max one out I don't have the heart to do it all again at the moment, but I might when I finally do have a maxed main.

Anyhoo as I had 7 Alt's and I knew I could just get free AD by invocating I had to do it... I did not realise until a month ago that doing that in the Protectors Enclave was stupid, basically over a year of playing and watching those loading screens in the longest place to load... duuuurr!! lol much better in a low populated zone. Anyhoo I will be glad to not have to do that just to earn some free currency.

Before anyone says anything snarky back, I have OCD when it comes to some things in life and the way I play video games is one of them lol... especially RPG's

cscriv79

Most days I do not run the skirmish or dungeon and never run the PvP as i have dailies and guild requirements to meet, so long as I can keep the % increase doing my 'normal' playing the game ie dailies (required to build character and progress), campaigns, story and the odd epic dungeon here and there then I do not have a problem with the change.

The 'normal' way to play the game is to do the story,campaigns,dailies,guild requirements to build the character with the dungeons and skirmishes as an extra for gear and items as/if needed.

kclowe

I still plan on praying as much as i can on all my alts. In alot of ways the bags that they drop and the zen discounts you get are more valuable than then couple thousand AD you may get. Not to mention the celestial chest and refining the hoard of rough thats spread out on them.
I think a lot of you are right in that its going to effeect the non playing goldsellers and a hand full of people. Some of who i know.

Unknown

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getarez

My view is that VIP wasn't actually worth the money before this mod and this to me has lessened its appeal, particularly to players who try to be self sufficient. Anyone who thinks this change wasn't introduced to increase Zen sales is deluding themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I have VIP and like some of the bonuses and features but I would rather pay a subscription (which is essentially what VIP is) and not have to worry about bank space and bag space on any new characters I create.

moogie101

I don't see how this changes that much. Simple work around is do your normal daily dungeon & skirmish runs on your main character (or more if you have the time) & then salvage only using your alts to take advantage of the % bonus they have got through invoking. All that's been done is make it more fiddly & time consuming which is just what a grindy RPG needs!!!

The easier solution if this was such a big deal would have been to limiting the amount of characters you can invoke on, most players would likely have less than seven alts . Any characters over that gets no AD from invoking would have been far easier.

Its just another attempt to limit the AD we can earn I assume to combat those players who transfer AD into Zen which is costing the game money.

darthjafo

As long as the exp is still there I'll keep invoking on my ranger. I play a OP and warlock daily and there's just not enough time to run stuff on all three

mordekai

It's not going to make any real difference.
As far as the thing about having to wait four hours before starting to earn AD goes, it takes only a little imagination to realise that if you simply invoke on day 1 and then from day 2 onward you have a stack to carry forward so you can earn and invoke as previous with no detrimental effect. You suffer 1 days loss of AD rather than ongoing inconvenience by trying to rush the same day's bonus.
As for characters who might not get a full run out... I have four characters, one I play daily, and the others I rotate through. This week my DC isn't getting much love, so the others donate a drow ring or two once their bonus has been achieved.
I'm earning more invoke AD than before.

omegarealities

Is there somewhere to see how much bonus we have saved up?

moogie101

omegarealities#7219 said:

Is there somewhere to see how much bonus we have saved up?

Press "Select" to highlight your character details in top left corner of the screen, then just press left on D-Pad. Its the first little box under your name, health & XP bar.

omegarealities

moogie101#4741 said:

omegarealities#7219 said:

Is there somewhere to see how much bonus we have saved up?

Press "Select" to highlight your character details in top left corner of the screen, then just press left on D-Pad. Its the first little box under your name, health & XP bar.

Found it. Thanks.

phedre222

> @xrawcarnage said:
> You get 10% for running dungeons, skirmishes, weekly, dailies, etc . So I'm sure PW doesn't care to much about the small amount you get from invoking.

I wish they cared! This isn't fair! I don't do dungeons. I don't like having to find other people to party to do them. I don't know anything about skirmishes, but if it involves a party with other people, I won't do it. I play all the time and today after doing quests everywhere, I haven't earned a single astral diamond in 7 hours of playing. Invoking was the main way I got diamonds to refine and upgrade enchantments :'( I get sick of doing the same dailies over and over and over. I can't do them every day cuz they're boring, just enough to complete campaign requirements. So now I can't get astral diamonds. This is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! Punishing players who like playing by themselves.