Am i missing something here? What is the point of doing CT at 70?
The Cloak Tower was removed for a while. Most of my characters were 70 when it was returned. I hadn't been playing before it was removed. It is required for the zone achievement in the campaign tracker.
Other than that, it is, more or less, a straight shot from beginning to end. It is a rather easy dungeon. People will opt for it for the AD gain if they're in a hurry to collect.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Yeah, but isn't something like TOS faster? But I ama little surprised that you would get the same reward for a lv20 instance, so it seems to be strictly based on your level.
Yeah, but isn't something like TOS faster? But I ama little surprised that you would get the same reward for a lv20 instance, so it seems to be strictly based on your level.
You get the same, but you cant run TOS with lvl 20 and you die, if you run TOS with 300 IL. With one decent lvl 70 char and everybody running, TOS and CT take ca. 5 minutes.
You get the AD award for YOUR level so at 70 it is the same as epics. Lower level chars will get a scaled down amount of AD. Stangely enough, mod drops in scaled content seem random in level, so my new SW has rank 5 enchants from running with level 70s in heroics.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Drops tend to be based on who did the killing.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Which - the party leader's level, the level of the character who makes a kill or a combination of both?
I've been in parties where items of different levels are dropped so they can be picked up by different members of the group...
And speaking of "etiquette", party etiquette isn't always about running around trying to scoop up every piece of loot (although that sometimes seems to be how some players do it).
The party leader can (or used to be able to) set the "loot mode" for the group, which I rarely do since it us usually set at "need or greed" to begin with I believe.
I've always thought that gear specific to a character class should be left for a player of that class, if there is one in the group regardless of their level (that requires some thinking and consideration on behalf of the participants) and items non class specific, like enchantments, runestones. potions, etc. left to be picked up on a "need or greed" or "free for all" basis but that's just me.
Any thoughts on that?
DD~
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
It used to be Need or Greed/Green. They has since set it to Need or Green/Blue.
Loot left on the ground is wasted. It is better off in someone's pack.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It used to be Need or Greed/Green. They has since set it to Need or Green/Blue.
Loot left on the ground is wasted. It is better off in someone's pack.
Agreed loot on the ground is wasted but in picking up some of this gear a player gets what - two silver from a merchant, maybe a .5 boost to an artifact's level (depending on the area of course)?
Seems to me one is "a waste" and another is a monumental waste of time and effort...
But it's just my opinion.
DD~
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Some progress is better than no progress.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
No, it actually IS Cloak Tower. It just seems like it ought to be Clock Tower. The run in Neverwinter Graveyard is Clock....But we are talking about the level 12, 1st AD dungeon. There is no clock in it, but then I don't recall ever seeing a cloak either...perhaps there is one flying from the top spire?
No, it actually IS Cloak Tower. It just seems like it ought to be Clock Tower. The run in Neverwinter Graveyard is Clock....But we are talking about the level 12, 1st AD dungeon. There is no clock in it, but then I don't recall ever seeing a cloak either...perhaps there is one flying from the top spire?
"The tower takes its name from a guild of mages called the Many-Starred Cloaks who lived and gathered there. They were well known in the city for their arcane skill and for the whimsical, colorful cloaks they wore."
Helps to read the ingame lore from time to time.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
If the party stays together so that the mobs are all following and at least one over leveled character has AOE, then door to door pulls are faster. If you have stragglers, it's going to be faster to kill as you go. Good luck communicating that in a Q made PUG.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,400Arc User
I just let the group to decide which way they want by being the last one to move along.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
In this hypothetical reality where "some bad things may happen to certain people but not to others" there's a saying for this.. it's called "HAMSTER happens". It doesn't really make sense to urge players to go out of their way to change the normal expected play behavior instilled by the game just because of the tiny possibility something may go wrong for a few people now and then.
Why would one player not be able to outrun the mobs quickly? And if they don't have the desire to contribute to the dungeon they don't deserve the rewards of the dungeon which I've already covered.
Once again (and for the final time in this thread) the higher level players are doing the dungeon and the lower players are refusing to stick with their group members. Stop trying to turn this around on the people who are playing to the objective the way it's intended.
The "complaint that I have to wait on slow players" was a hypothetical advocacy complaint in opposition to the complaint that players are running through the dungeon to actually complete it. I'm basically turning the tables, where a bunch of people are blaming others who successfully run the dungeon for being "HAMSTER" just because some players refuse to keep up. If anything, this complaint is more legitimate than the former for reasons already mentioned several times.
The "story" analogy is a poor one considering the bulk of the mobs (in the worst-case scenario that not every single monster is killed) are what could potentially kill a player and these mobs are already gone by the time the player reaches the areas they spawned at originally. It's not as if 0 monsters are being killed and they are all just piling up and standing there waiting for the low level guy to come along so they can all jump him. You guys are painting the picture this way but this isn't reality at all.
------
Once again, the thread is people complaining that higher level players exist, basically.. considering the complaint is illegitimate from the start because they way they are claiming things go down in CT are not in-fact the way they go down.
Actually if you go back to the very first post in this thread, the intent and purpose of this discussion seems to me to be about "why do some people run ahead of other players and not kill the opponents as they are doing so" and I think the reference there was that the author of the thread considered those who ran ahead and didn't kill the opponents along the way are being, less than "polite".
Just Because you jumped in and try to change the subject of the thread to "why don't people keep up", or erroneously attempt to claim; "this thread is people complaining that higher level players exist" doesn't change actual and intended purpose of this thread as far as I'm concerned.
There seems to be a purpose for the game requiring a number of players before anyone can run a dungeon, it's called "forming a party", and the purpose of a party is to quest together to give support to other players when and where necessary or just arrive at the end at the same time NOT for one or two players to run off to do their own thing and leave other members of the party to catch up. I agree with the origional posted that those who run off from the rest of the party and particularly those who do so and do not kill the opponents along the way are impolite and inconsiderate to say the very least.
And again you attempt to put the onus of not keeping the party together on the slower player who may not have the ability or experience to do so just tends to show quite a bit of ignorance, arrogance or possibly both on your part as does your suggestion that any low level player should be able to handle mobs of remaining opponents (remember the origional premise was that the run away character did not kill the opponents as they ran through) or even a few remaining opponents as far as I'm concerned.
The next time you're in the game press your "C" button and look at your character attributes, particularly your "run speed" - "defense" - "deflection" - "power" - CRIT and AP...
Now if you have more than one character open up the character attributes of a couple more characters, or better yet make a new character and run it up to around level 15 - the appropriate level for questing in the Cloak Tower - and compare that player's stats with the first higher level player you created.
Are the stats identical?
Probably not - THAT's why some players do not have the "ability to outrun mobs quickly", it has sometimes (often times IMO, as I think few people want to lag behind in a dungeon with opponents in their path) nothing to do with "desire" or "choice", even though you might have the ability, again its not always a matter of "choice" or "desire" despite your attempting to repeatedly claim it is.
And it is not a complaint that you have to wait for slower players... it's been pointed out that it is the "polite" and considerate thing to do, but that you don't and don't think you should have to, again speaks to your character IMO...
And still the fact remains that regardless of whether or not you want to wait at the final gate for the entire party to arrive, you have to wait for the slower or less experienced, or "just wanted to look around" player to arrive - you have to wait for that player to arrive before you can so through that last gate...
And if I happen to be the slow member in the party who can't - or as you say "won't" keep up - I just might take a little longer than I normally would have to, just to return the consideration, or more accurately the lack of consideration that I've been shown. I hope to see you in a CT quest party real soon...
If players are running as far as possible and standing at the gate not killing anything, I agree they are idiots. I kick people who do stuff like this or give them only one warning to not do it again or they'll be kicked. Ideally, everyone in the group will contribute to the dungeon progress.
If we're talking people who run to the end and let the mobs chase them then kill the mobs, that's perfectly fine. Nothing will happen to a lower guy anyways if the mobs are all following the higher guy.
To state that because we are grouped with other players means that they are there because they are all needed to complete a dungeon then either one of these should be possible:
1. Allow higher people to run it alone. 2. Not allow higher people to run it at all.
Since neither of these are the case, the point doesn't hold much validity in my opinion.
And once again you can't open the gates without killing the mobs and if any are stranded afterwards it's not enough to kill a noob. If it does kill them it's their own fault for being trash. Nobody else is paying my bills or payed for my hardware and I won't babysit people.
It is a matter of choice because many people in the cloak channel and myself included have kept up with crappy items on low level characters. We don't stay way in the back several hundred feet away and die. I still have yet to see a reason why a player can't keep up if he wanted to. Even if he can't keep up it doesn't matter considering the mobs are dead by the time he gets to the end. If anything, this again falls to be a problem for the higher people who are waiting around at the end for the slow player.
It speaks to others' characters when they display extreme entitlement and cry about not being given things free simply because they refuse to contribute or keep up, especially when we're talking about a level 12 dungeon that isn't difficult even for level 12 players.
If I see you in a CT and intentionally slow us down you will be kicked without question considering you've just admitted that you're going to do it and there won't be any question of if it's intentional.
I usually do the fast run. Sometime i group everything up and kill them all at certain point. As for low level player, i leave them to themselves not because i didnt want to help but because there are many type of people playing this game. Some player just wants to kill stuff to enjoy the game. Some wants other player to help. Some are curious and wants to explore. Some are really lost. Some are smart and they tag along. So i dont bother them much and willing to wait till they do what they wants to do. If i see them died back there, only will i go back and look for them to lead the path. Else, i just leave them be. The last time i help them, they quit the dungeon saying i spoiled their fun.
But i really hate some bad manners people with elitist attitude that trying to dictate how others play this game. I once got told by the other lvl70 player, not to do fast run and telling me i m making it difficult for the other low lvl. While he, himself is standing next to me right before the final boss instead of fighting beside the low lvl guy. I mean if he feel the low level guy needed the help he could turn back to help him instead of waiting with me at the campfire and complaining? I will only turn back if the low level died or something convince me he is really having difficulty. Else i wont judge or intrude his fun for exploring or killing mob. So guys, before u judge or dictating how others play the game, please be respectful of other player that play the game. Its ok to create awareness but please do not dictate others how to play the game. Its just rude.
Lastly, i felt abit pity for cloak tower that level 70 are able do it with lvl14 difficulty. Its a well design dungeon that got turn into AD grinding zone. I still remember how fun it is back in mod3 when i m doing it for the 1st time at lvl18 with other similar level player. Now its all about lvl70 one shotting everything.
Ironically, this thread is full of people trying to dictate how other players should play. This whole thing is similar to the "privilege" theory (if you catch what I'm referring to). It's essentially a hypocritical complaint with no validity.
The level 70s doing Cloak Tower aren't doing it because "OMG PVE IS SO FUN!!!!1111" but to earn AD.
Yeah, but isn't something like TOS faster? But I ama little surprised that you would get the same reward for a lv20 instance, so it seems to be strictly based on your level.
Many of us feel TOS is faster and I do it on my main every day because my main hits very hard. I don't want to spend AD gearing alts that I don't care about and only exist to make money. From the perspective of a lower geared alt I find that CT is faster if you factor in reliability of completing a run quickly. Many players seem to get lost in TOS and many of them barely do anything to contribute. CT can easily be completed with minimal items, even when your teammates do absolutely nothing to help and are 1000+ feet behind you.
If the party stays together so that the mobs are all following and at least one over leveled character has AOE, then door to door pulls are faster. If you have stragglers, it's going to be faster to kill as you go. Good luck communicating that in a Q made PUG.
Not to mention the rampant botting issue in CT that the staff doesn't seem to care about taking care of.
Atodaso@sneak#6191 Tornado Of Souls
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
I do find it funny, that people still use botting as a example of anything.
The problem with even mentioning botting, is they remove actual services, content that players actual use.
They dont fix it.. they just remove it.
making lvl 70s unable to do CT, wont fix botting by the way.. not one bit.
So I personally fail to see how that is even used or brought up in the conversation.
The real failure of this entire process, is what players talked about in mod 6.. failure of the actual game company to make a reasonable progression path. So they did a stop gap , the leveling dungeons. These dungeons have to be in the game for lvl 70s , due to the impossibility of fresh 70s to complete t1 content. Heck they cant even do kr.
It takes months of weeklies, leveling dungeons to get them to that point.
Of course if they found a guild that would drag them through, that is one thing, but that isnt easy either. Even if they do, its not like EVERY time there is a spot for that.
I cant tell you how many random pug groups Ive done, that if I didnt even enter, the other 4, wouldnt have done it.. even KRS for goodness sake. I mean doing 95-99% of everything (damage, heals, taken.. )
This goes for many who random pug from time to time. So its not like Im trumpting myself, its just the fact. There are so many under-geared players its not funny.
Of course you get to the point that your overgeared too.. but heck, you can always do random pugs for challenge.
Im generally opposed on removing services/content.. but regardless, I fail many of the reasons why people want to exclude lvl 70s to be rather invalid.
1. Argument 1. "They are ruining my fun" well not really, without 70s entering the queue, those queue times would be hours in between.. You could actually get a group together in level appropriate zones to do a real run if you so choose. You take the shortcut, then COMPLAIN about said shortcut into getting a group together. 2. Argument 2. "There are many bots" heck, I dont know what that means, maybe, but they are not lvl 70s usually, or if they are they will have gear scores less then 1k or so. But, they are not real players and as such, shouldnt even be in this conversation. 3. Argument 3. "I should be able to go on my pace" Sure, you should, I dont disagree, go back to 1.. just GET a group togher, like any other mmo ever. You are all lazy who contend this, super lazy. Removal of 70s, just means the queue will pop, way.. WAY less, hours in between. Or, if your right about bots, you will only get 2 bots and yoruself..
None of this really matters, nor do I think this thread should continue with the same old tired arguments.
UNLESS cryptic comes up with a reasonable progression plan at lvl 70, they will stay.
The purpose of low level dungeon is for leveling, not RAD farming. Putting these together with level 70 will give lvl70 an opportunity to exploit RAD farming like what it is now. When there is free RAD to farm, that attracts bots. We cant leave bots out of it because they are part of the game problem. Pre-Mod 6 actually has a balanced system. Dungeons are closed once u get to certain level until u reach level cap only will u get access to the epic version one. As for post lvl70 progression, they are the one that need to find a guild or group to progress in epic dungeon like what it use to back then. Progression is hard for fresh level 70 during mod 6 because u hardly see people with 3k ilvl but not now. Also its much easier now thanks to underdark campaign. This progression dungeon is no longer necessary. I agree that removing content/service is a bad move so does continuing a bad one. Its time for them to revert to the old system and bring back all the old dungeon with lvl 70 difficulty.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You get the AD award for YOUR level so at 70 it is the same as epics. Lower level chars will get a scaled down amount of AD.
Lowbies get full AD in dungeons, less in skirmishes.
My experience with mobs drops is they are scaled to whoever got the killing hit (much like utility enchant procs require you to land the killing blow). In a mixed-level run, you will probably see far more high-level loot than low, unless the lowbies are being allowed to contribute a great deal (ie. any 70s present are specifically not speedrunning).
I have acquired more Dusk gear for even my most abandoned level 70 alts in the latest t-bar store sale, so if I decide to do fast AD runs, I'll probably only run ToS from now on.
The purpose of low level dungeon is for leveling, not RAD farming. Putting these together with level 70 will give lvl70 an opportunity to exploit RAD farming like what it is now. When there is free RAD to farm, that attracts bots. We cant leave bots out of it because they are part of the game problem. Pre-Mod 6 actually has a balanced system. Dungeons are closed once u get to certain level until u reach level cap only will u get access to the epic version one. As for post lvl70 progression, they are the one that need to find a guild or group to progress in epic dungeon like what it use to back then. Progression is hard for fresh level 70 during mod 6 because u hardly see people with 3k ilvl but not now. Also its much easier now thanks to underdark campaign. This progression dungeon is no longer necessary. I agree that removing content/service is a bad move so does continuing a bad one. Its time for them to revert to the old system and bring back all the old dungeon with lvl 70 difficulty.
What incentive does the game company have to do this?
You level from 1-70 in approx 10-30 hours of gameplay.
You are talking about a small % of player who even care, most players dont, most just take free AD and move along.
You spend way more time at 70+ then you will ever at pre 70.
I have a average of 45-60 days on 3-4 toons of game play. Thats 4000+ game hours of play.
Out of that 4000+ or whatever it is.. like 100 is leveling hours.
I fail to see why they would cater to the small % of poeple who are upset about the current processs.
and look, im not really trying to defend it, if they remove it.. go ahead, no skin off my back, I just dont think they will, I think the arguments are pretty invalid, coming from a very small % of players, who can outlevel said leveling dungeons, before they relized they even missed them.
ITs simply not a issue that warrants this long of a thread.
Removal of them, will just impact too many newer lvl 70 players, unless they figure out another way for them to earn AD.
I have acquired more Dusk gear for even my most abandoned level 70 alts in the latest t-bar store sale, so if I decide to do fast AD runs, I'll probably only run ToS from now on.
I did the same thing! 2 piece dusk, frost gloves, and I also picked up some cheap arti necks and belts for character bound RP. I made a huge mistake investing in ensorcelled weapons though because it scales down for the dungeon while other weapons don't!!
Right now I have 12 toons that run CT twice a day. It's a major pain in my HAMSTER and is time consuming but it's consistent AD and keeps RNGesus out of the picture. I run Epics for fun, not the rewards because time vs reward sucks.
I do find it funny, that people still use botting as a example of anything.
Or, if your right about bots, you will only get 2 bots and yoruself..
None of this really matters, nor do I think this thread should continue with the same old tired arguments.
UNLESS cryptic comes up with a reasonable progression plan at lvl 70, they will stay.
I usually don't mind running w/ bots, because they pass all loot rolls and my enchants get me a decent amount of rank 5s. That said, I have had occasions where there will be a bugged mob stuck in a wall or something, and the bots run up to it, try to kill it, and then get killed themselves because the mob can dish but not take damage. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum and you now have a dungeon where you'll never get to Vansi and the other two (or one, if they're bot bots) have to drop and re-queue.
Otherwise, though, I'll usually inspect the party quickly to see if they're bots (Level 60-something w/ 300 IL) or lowbies (Level 20-something w/ 300 IL). IF there are actual players in the zone, much as I love running ahead and killing everything, I'll keep an eye on the map and see who isn't keeping up and give them a hand if they need it.
I do find it funny, that people still use botting as a example of anything.
The problem with even mentioning botting, is they remove actual services, content that players actual use.
They dont fix it.. they just remove it.
making lvl 70s unable to do CT, wont fix botting by the way.. not one bit.
So I personally fail to see how that is even used or brought up in the conversation.
The real failure of this entire process, is what players talked about in mod 6.. failure of the actual game company to make a reasonable progression path. So they did a stop gap , the leveling dungeons. These dungeons have to be in the game for lvl 70s , due to the impossibility of fresh 70s to complete t1 content. Heck they cant even do kr.
It takes months of weeklies, leveling dungeons to get them to that point.
Of course if they found a guild that would drag them through, that is one thing, but that isnt easy either. Even if they do, its not like EVERY time there is a spot for that.
I cant tell you how many random pug groups Ive done, that if I didnt even enter, the other 4, wouldnt have done it.. even KRS for goodness sake. I mean doing 95-99% of everything (damage, heals, taken.. )
This goes for many who random pug from time to time. So its not like Im trumpting myself, its just the fact. There are so many under-geared players its not funny.
Of course you get to the point that your overgeared too.. but heck, you can always do random pugs for challenge.
Im generally opposed on removing services/content.. but regardless, I fail many of the reasons why people want to exclude lvl 70s to be rather invalid.
1. Argument 1. "They are ruining my fun" well not really, without 70s entering the queue, those queue times would be hours in between.. You could actually get a group together in level appropriate zones to do a real run if you so choose. You take the shortcut, then COMPLAIN about said shortcut into getting a group together. 2. Argument 2. "There are many bots" heck, I dont know what that means, maybe, but they are not lvl 70s usually, or if they are they will have gear scores less then 1k or so. But, they are not real players and as such, shouldnt even be in this conversation. 3. Argument 3. "I should be able to go on my pace" Sure, you should, I dont disagree, go back to 1.. just GET a group togher, like any other mmo ever. You are all lazy who contend this, super lazy. Removal of 70s, just means the queue will pop, way.. WAY less, hours in between. Or, if your right about bots, you will only get 2 bots and yoruself..
None of this really matters, nor do I think this thread should continue with the same old tired arguments.
UNLESS cryptic comes up with a reasonable progression plan at lvl 70, they will stay.
Removing incentive is the best way to combat cheaters/botters. They did this with the rough AD in invoking, for example. It stopped many people from wanting to use invoke bots which is a GOOD thing. There's no way anyone can create a 100% safe anti-cheat. Those don't/can't exist despite what players are claiming is possible.
The botting point was brought up because he was saying "good luck communicating" and you cannot communicate at all with bots so everything you say is meaningless and I'm thinking many people aren't even aware that they are talking to bots.
The purpose of low level dungeon is for leveling, not RAD farming. Putting these together with level 70 will give lvl70 an opportunity to exploit RAD farming like what it is now. When there is free RAD to farm, that attracts bots. We cant leave bots out of it because they are part of the game problem. Pre-Mod 6 actually has a balanced system. Dungeons are closed once u get to certain level until u reach level cap only will u get access to the epic version one. As for post lvl70 progression, they are the one that need to find a guild or group to progress in epic dungeon like what it use to back then. Progression is hard for fresh level 70 during mod 6 because u hardly see people with 3k ilvl but not now. Also its much easier now thanks to underdark campaign. This progression dungeon is no longer necessary. I agree that removing content/service is a bad move so does continuing a bad one. Its time for them to revert to the old system and bring back all the old dungeon with lvl 70 difficulty.
No, it's really not for leveling lol... It IS for AD farming. I have never heard of anyone saying they do CT for leveling up and ALWAYS for earning AD. I levelled my 5 alts there from 12 and up but I did it because I wanted the AD. I don't know why anyone would even use CT for leveling a character anyways. That seems really boring and slow.
Earning RAD via dungeons isn't "exploiting". The game intends to give AD for completing a dungeon. I don't see how you don't get this... it's pretty simple really. Just because you disagree with how something is configured doesn't make it an exploit. You're destroying the definition of words by exaggerating and incorrectly applying them to the situation.
I have acquired more Dusk gear for even my most abandoned level 70 alts in the latest t-bar store sale, so if I decide to do fast AD runs, I'll probably only run ToS from now on.
I did the same thing! 2 piece dusk, frost gloves, and I also picked up some cheap arti necks and belts for character bound RP. I made a huge mistake investing in ensorcelled weapons though because it scales down for the dungeon while other weapons don't!!
Right now I have 12 toons that run CT twice a day. It's a major pain in my HAMSTER and is time consuming but it's consistent AD and keeps RNGesus out of the picture. I run Epics for fun, not the rewards because time vs reward sucks.
I use to run ToS but find it takes longer.
I've run at least 10 per day (because sometimes runs get bugged or other reasons like doing it on main instead of TOS for the day) since some time in June. I've never failed to do every run every day. I also do it for the same reason of consistency. The rewards we get for doing CT are very reliable and a decent amount for the time and effort spent.
I do find it funny, that people still use botting as a example of anything.
Or, if your right about bots, you will only get 2 bots and yoruself..
None of this really matters, nor do I think this thread should continue with the same old tired arguments.
UNLESS cryptic comes up with a reasonable progression plan at lvl 70, they will stay.
I usually don't mind running w/ bots, because they pass all loot rolls and my enchants get me a decent amount of rank 5s. That said, I have had occasions where there will be a bugged mob stuck in a wall or something, and the bots run up to it, try to kill it, and then get killed themselves because the mob can dish but not take damage. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum and you now have a dungeon where you'll never get to Vansi and the other two (or one, if they're bot bots) have to drop and re-queue.
Otherwise, though, I'll usually inspect the party quickly to see if they're bots (Level 60-something w/ 300 IL) or lowbies (Level 20-something w/ 300 IL). IF there are actual players in the zone, much as I love running ahead and killing everything, I'll keep an eye on the map and see who isn't keeping up and give them a hand if they need it.
Never seen a bot pass on a roll...
They usually have all green and blue items and are missing some on the right side column and have no enchants in any slots. I forgot the name right now but they use the same item names all the time. They are usually GWF and have terrible rotations and don't sprint at all.
I do run CT everyday for the free RAD. Because of this, I feel something is not right. It gives RAD too easily and opportunity for gold seller to exploit. I blame mod 6 for this bad design. At least the previous design are more controlled by rewarding RAD through epic dungeon. Dont get me wrong, i do not wish them to remove any dungeon. Just need them to remove RAD reward for non epic dungeon. Giving 100% salvage drop from each boss in epic dungeon will bring back the balance. This will cut off one opportunity for gold seller to make free RAD. Also if u havent notice already, each lower level dungeon are meant for leveling quest line. Because there is no restriction to dungeon RAD reward, it eventually became a RAD farming zone for level 70.
They usually have all green and blue items and are missing some on the right side column and have no enchants in any slots. I forgot the name right now but they use the same item names all the time. They are usually GWF and have terrible rotations and don't sprint at all.
I will have to look at the chat window next time. I just assumed they were passing because I won every roll and NO ONE has that much RNG luck in this game.
And yeah, seen the same gear. All slots empty, all basic pick-up green/blues.
Comments
Other than that, it is, more or less, a straight shot from beginning to end. It is a rather easy dungeon. People will opt for it for the AD gain if they're in a hurry to collect.
I've been in parties where items of different levels are dropped so they can be picked up by different members of the group...
And speaking of "etiquette", party etiquette isn't always about running around trying to scoop up every piece of loot (although that sometimes seems to be how some players do it).
The party leader can (or used to be able to) set the "loot mode" for the group, which I rarely do since it us usually set at "need or greed" to begin with I believe.
I've always thought that gear specific to a character class should be left for a player of that class, if there is one in the group regardless of their level (that requires some thinking and consideration on behalf of the participants) and items non class specific, like enchantments, runestones. potions, etc. left to be picked up on a "need or greed" or "free for all" basis but that's just me.
Any thoughts on that?
Loot left on the ground is wasted. It is better off in someone's pack.
Seems to me one is "a waste" and another is a monumental waste of time and effort...
But it's just my opinion.
Helps to read the ingame lore from time to time.
If we're talking people who run to the end and let the mobs chase them then kill the mobs, that's perfectly fine. Nothing will happen to a lower guy anyways if the mobs are all following the higher guy.
To state that because we are grouped with other players means that they are there because they are all needed to complete a dungeon then either one of these should be possible:
1. Allow higher people to run it alone.
2. Not allow higher people to run it at all.
Since neither of these are the case, the point doesn't hold much validity in my opinion.
And once again you can't open the gates without killing the mobs and if any are stranded afterwards it's not enough to kill a noob. If it does kill them it's their own fault for being trash. Nobody else is paying my bills or payed for my hardware and I won't babysit people.
It is a matter of choice because many people in the cloak channel and myself included have kept up with crappy items on low level characters. We don't stay way in the back several hundred feet away and die. I still have yet to see a reason why a player can't keep up if he wanted to. Even if he can't keep up it doesn't matter considering the mobs are dead by the time he gets to the end. If anything, this again falls to be a problem for the higher people who are waiting around at the end for the slow player.
It speaks to others' characters when they display extreme entitlement and cry about not being given things free simply because they refuse to contribute or keep up, especially when we're talking about a level 12 dungeon that isn't difficult even for level 12 players.
If I see you in a CT and intentionally slow us down you will be kicked without question considering you've just admitted that you're going to do it and there won't be any question of if it's intentional.
Tornado Of Souls
The level 70s doing Cloak Tower aren't doing it because "OMG PVE IS SO FUN!!!!1111" but to earn AD. As 2 dungeons can be run per day, per character, you can gain 14.8-14.9K AD after 2 runs with full invoke bonus and VIP R12. Many of us feel TOS is faster and I do it on my main every day because my main hits very hard. I don't want to spend AD gearing alts that I don't care about and only exist to make money. From the perspective of a lower geared alt I find that CT is faster if you factor in reliability of completing a run quickly. Many players seem to get lost in TOS and many of them barely do anything to contribute. CT can easily be completed with minimal items, even when your teammates do absolutely nothing to help and are 1000+ feet behind you.
Not to mention the rampant botting issue in CT that the staff doesn't seem to care about taking care of.
Tornado Of Souls
The problem with even mentioning botting, is they remove actual services, content that players actual use.
They dont fix it.. they just remove it.
making lvl 70s unable to do CT, wont fix botting by the way.. not one bit.
So I personally fail to see how that is even used or brought up in the conversation.
The real failure of this entire process, is what players talked about in mod 6.. failure of the actual game company to make a reasonable progression path. So they did a stop gap , the leveling dungeons. These dungeons have to be in the game for lvl 70s , due to the impossibility of fresh 70s to complete t1 content. Heck they cant even do kr.
It takes months of weeklies, leveling dungeons to get them to that point.
Of course if they found a guild that would drag them through, that is one thing, but that isnt easy either. Even if they do, its not like EVERY time there is a spot for that.
I cant tell you how many random pug groups Ive done, that if I didnt even enter, the other 4, wouldnt have done it.. even KRS for goodness sake. I mean doing 95-99% of everything (damage, heals, taken.. )
This goes for many who random pug from time to time. So its not like Im trumpting myself, its just the fact. There are so many under-geared players its not funny.
Of course you get to the point that your overgeared too.. but heck, you can always do random pugs for challenge.
Im generally opposed on removing services/content.. but regardless, I fail many of the reasons why people want to exclude lvl 70s to be rather invalid.
1. Argument 1. "They are ruining my fun" well not really, without 70s entering the queue, those queue times would be hours in between.. You could actually get a group together in level appropriate zones to do a real run if you so choose. You take the shortcut, then COMPLAIN about said shortcut into getting a group together.
2. Argument 2. "There are many bots" heck, I dont know what that means, maybe, but they are not lvl 70s usually, or if they are they will have gear scores less then 1k or so. But, they are not real players and as such, shouldnt even be in this conversation.
3. Argument 3. "I should be able to go on my pace" Sure, you should, I dont disagree, go back to 1.. just GET a group togher, like any other mmo ever. You are all lazy who contend this, super lazy. Removal of 70s, just means the queue will pop, way.. WAY less, hours in between. Or, if your right about bots, you will only get 2 bots and yoruself..
None of this really matters, nor do I think this thread should continue with the same old tired arguments.
UNLESS cryptic comes up with a reasonable progression plan at lvl 70, they will stay.
My experience with mobs drops is they are scaled to whoever got the killing hit (much like utility enchant procs require you to land the killing blow). In a mixed-level run, you will probably see far more high-level loot than low, unless the lowbies are being allowed to contribute a great deal (ie. any 70s present are specifically not speedrunning).
I have acquired more Dusk gear for even my most abandoned level 70 alts in the latest t-bar store sale, so if I decide to do fast AD runs, I'll probably only run ToS from now on.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
You level from 1-70 in approx 10-30 hours of gameplay.
You are talking about a small % of player who even care, most players dont, most just take free AD and move along.
You spend way more time at 70+ then you will ever at pre 70.
I have a average of 45-60 days on 3-4 toons of game play. Thats 4000+ game hours of play.
Out of that 4000+ or whatever it is.. like 100 is leveling hours.
I fail to see why they would cater to the small % of poeple who are upset about the current processs.
and look, im not really trying to defend it, if they remove it.. go ahead, no skin off my back, I just dont think they will, I think the arguments are pretty invalid, coming from a very small % of players, who can outlevel said leveling dungeons, before they relized they even missed them.
ITs simply not a issue that warrants this long of a thread.
Removal of them, will just impact too many newer lvl 70 players, unless they figure out another way for them to earn AD.
Right now I have 12 toons that run CT twice a day. It's a major pain in my HAMSTER and is time consuming but it's consistent AD and keeps RNGesus out of the picture. I run Epics for fun, not the rewards because time vs reward sucks.
I use to run ToS but find it takes longer.
Otherwise, though, I'll usually inspect the party quickly to see if they're bots (Level 60-something w/ 300 IL) or lowbies (Level 20-something w/ 300 IL). IF there are actual players in the zone, much as I love running ahead and killing everything, I'll keep an eye on the map and see who isn't keeping up and give them a hand if they need it.
The botting point was brought up because he was saying "good luck communicating" and you cannot communicate at all with bots so everything you say is meaningless and I'm thinking many people aren't even aware that they are talking to bots. No, it's really not for leveling lol... It IS for AD farming. I have never heard of anyone saying they do CT for leveling up and ALWAYS for earning AD. I levelled my 5 alts there from 12 and up but I did it because I wanted the AD. I don't know why anyone would even use CT for leveling a character anyways. That seems really boring and slow.
Earning RAD via dungeons isn't "exploiting". The game intends to give AD for completing a dungeon. I don't see how you don't get this... it's pretty simple really. Just because you disagree with how something is configured doesn't make it an exploit. You're destroying the definition of words by exaggerating and incorrectly applying them to the situation. I've run at least 10 per day (because sometimes runs get bugged or other reasons like doing it on main instead of TOS for the day) since some time in June. I've never failed to do every run every day. I also do it for the same reason of consistency. The rewards we get for doing CT are very reliable and a decent amount for the time and effort spent. Never seen a bot pass on a roll...
They usually have all green and blue items and are missing some on the right side column and have no enchants in any slots. I forgot the name right now but they use the same item names all the time. They are usually GWF and have terrible rotations and don't sprint at all.
Tornado Of Souls
And yeah, seen the same gear. All slots empty, all basic pick-up green/blues.