I think it's plain rude to run through everything, leaving the party behind, and quickly slaughtering the bosses when others are too far away to get the seals bonus from it. When you don't have good gear yet, the seals can be handy. I'm not saying let everyone do some damage...but at least stay near the group.
If everyone wants to run, that's fine...if you're one that wants to do that, I suggest asking in party if everyone is ok with that first, or if you want to group them up to blast them with AoE, let everyone know that's your plan so they can help out with the strategy.
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
Many of the high geared players are running Clydsdale or similar mounts that give them Gladiators Guile and with Dark Enchants in the Utilities giving them a couple of thousand movement stat and if they're running the clydsdale, 9the easiest account wide way of getting Guile), they get another couple of k there.
Finally some classes get run speed innate to a class feature or two and GWF just love to charge off ahead at high speed using their shift functionality.
I've seen characters with just 1.2k movement rating have >25% run speed buff just from personal stuff. I'd guess north of 35% is possibble with enough movement stacking. no way in any imaginable number of hells your keeping up with that as a newbie.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
Many of the high geared players are running Clydsdale or similar mounts that give them Gladiators Guile and with Dark Enchants in the Utilities giving them a couple of thousand movement stat and if they're running the clydsdale, 9the easiest account wide way of getting Guile), they get another couple of k there.
Finally some classes get run speed innate to a class feature or two and GWF just love to charge off ahead at high speed using their shift functionality.
I've seen characters with just 1.2k movement rating have >25% run speed buff just from personal stuff. I'd guess north of 35% is possibble with enough movement stacking. no way in any imaginable number of hells your keeping up with that as a newbie.
I never see anyone with so much run speed that I can't keep up. This includes the 5 level 12 characters I leveled via running cloak tower all the way to 70 and additional runs I've done at 70. I was including the fact GWF have sprint as 2 of my characters are teleport/roll characters.
I never see anyone with so much run speed that I can't keep up. This includes the 5 level 12 characters I leveled via running cloak tower all the way to 70 and additional runs I've done at 70. I was including the fact GWF have sprint as 2 of my characters are teleport/roll characters.
Then you've been fortunate, they're not super common in the PUG queue but they absolutely exist. Get my paladin a Clydsdale and i could give most people issues keeping up with me. Throw on some R12'ds and go to a class with a suitable base run speed buff and there is simply no way most classes are going to keep up. Especially not lowbies.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
If I really wanted to, I could jack up my run speed significantly in dungeons. All R12 dark enchants gets me over 9%, a quickling adds another 0.75% and if I have a legendary companion a little more. I can then occasionally swap HR stances for an extra boost. That's all without having to resort to some really old "run-fast" gear I have in the bank like Arachnomancer's Rings. And then, of course, there's the Clydesdale.
I don't because it's inconsiderate.
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In 90% of the runs the issue are neither run speed or inconsiderate BIS players, but ppl running cloak tower or CTA or POM with underequipped alts for RAD.
I did run the current CTA with 20 chars. 6x 3k+ 14 with 2k-2.5k. The 14 chars are LS alts equipped with hand me downs, class artifacts, no boons at all and no/lesser weapon enchants. Guess what. My GF LS alts were paingiver in 8 of 10 runs.
There is no argument to be made, that the other guys were leveling/ new players. New players dont have class artifacts, dragon born packs, SW packs account mounts etc. You are lucky, if they at last pretend to try to contribute. Some stay at spawn for most of the time, some just run around to loot.
In 90% of the runs the issue are neither run speed or inconsiderate BIS players, but ppl running cloak tower or CTA or POM with underequipped alts for RAD.
Seriously? We have descended to gear snobbery for a freaking level 16 dungeon? Just how much of a gear score do you expect a level 16 player to have? And if a level 16 player is meant to complete the dungeon with their limited gear range. It really shouldn't matter what level of gear a level 70 mule might have.
In 90% of the runs the issue are neither run speed or inconsiderate BIS players, but ppl running cloak tower or CTA or POM with underequipped alts for RAD.
Seriously? We have descended to gear snobbery for a freaking level 16 dungeon? Just how much of a gear score do you expect a level 16 player to have? And if a level 16 player is meant to complete the dungeon with their limited gear range. It really shouldn't matter what level of gear a level 70 mule might have.
I'm not here to criticize behavior or suggest anything time-consuming or difficult.
Everyone who queues for the Cloak Tower dungeon one or more times a day wants a fast run. I understand that. I'm here to suggest that the fastest possible way to run a pug through there is also, frankly, the most polite:
KILL EVERYTHING AS YOU GO.
It won't slow down an overpowered group, and it saves a mixed group enormous amounts of time in the long run. For example: Huey (level 70), Zeppo (level 50) and Shemp (level 20) find themselves together at the start of CT. All three run, killing whatever orcs and ogres get in their direct path; they also must clear out certain areas in order to move past doorways. Poor Shemp is going to be challenged by whatever creatures the others run past, since almost by definition gaining levels means gaining speed, even if only by killing low-level creatures faster. Now, Huey is at the end, tapping the axe, and everyone else sees "Your Party is Waiting For You." Zeppo isn't far behind, but oh dear, poor Shemp has been killed by that pesky Eye of Gruumsh. Now he has to run from the respawn site, and he's alone, and that Eye of Gruumsh and whatever detritus the other two have outrun are waiting for him along the way. Two players are wasting time waiting, and one is facing some pretty steep odds...
...unless you KILL EVERYTHING AS YOU GO.
I mouse over my pug party before I start a CT run, and if we're all unstoppable, I'll run with everyone and only slow down long enough along the way to take a shot at a random R5 drop. If we have levels in the party not likely to survive a solo run against the stuff we could outrun, then I'll make sure that they won't have to outrun anything. In the end, it will speed things up for everyone.
This is great! I have a pile of alts that are lvl 70 but couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag yet. They've not done any questing and wear the most basic of gear. Until I either pick stuff up in dungeons or get around to questing with them this is how it's going to be.
I was in a CT run over the weekend using my Pally who alone would take forever. The others made it to the end and I slowed them down because of the slow movement of the toon plus the enemies that were left alive! In the end I just kept walking and msg'd them I was coming in "hot" LMAO
If everything was killed it would have gone a LOT faster. So this goes both ways, the guys who are OP want a fast run and most who are not OP want a fast run. IMO the goal of running cloak tower is the AD not the play experience
In 90% of the runs the issue are neither run speed or inconsiderate BIS players, but ppl running cloak tower or CTA or POM with underequipped alts for RAD.
Seriously? We have descended to gear snobbery for a freaking level 16 dungeon? Just how much of a gear score do you expect a level 16 player to have? And if a level 16 player is meant to complete the dungeon with their limited gear range. It really shouldn't matter what level of gear a level 70 mule might have.
Some perspective from a brand new player - been playing about 2 weeks.
The first time I did CT I joined the queue, and zoned in. I said a greeting in chat, no response. The other 2, which I assume were high level, took off. I had to use my shift sprint to hope to keep up (warlock), and barely got any spells off but I could at least somewhat keep up. If I would have paused to loot anything I'd have gotten left behind. We did not deviate from the sparkly path in any way, shape or form. Not a word spoken the entire time. For a first time impression of a dungeon it was pretty unwelcoming.
My second time through was with a paladin at 16ish. I could NOT keep up. Again, no one spoke, and I was just plodding along and figured well, they'll have to wait for me at the boss. I just kept moving along, and at least they cleared as they went so I didn't run into much in the way of orcs. I did get delayed at the bookcase thing because I didn't know they jumped over so I had to fight. I was almost to boss and I got booted for taking too long. Gee, thanks. My second run went MUCH more smoothly, because it was a couple of higher levels that took the time and went to my pace and actually let me tank. In fact, I got on a friends list and was told I did a good job (been tanking since EQ1 days, POP era).
I don't have artifacts, or fancy mounts, much less any high level enchantments, as I haven't determined yet if this is a game worth dumping any money into. I'm just saying guys, take a sec to say hi in group chat and just ask if there's anyone new...might make the difference in someone sticking around for the long haul. I don't mind a speed run (I.e. no exploration, no finding all the nooks and crannies to get all the possible loot) but at least match speeds with the slowest person so they don't feel abandoned lol. And at the end of the day don't people want new folks to stick around? Not to mention actually have some sort of clue of group dynamics for when they hit level cap?
I've done a handful of the dungeons now on my SW and OP and they are pretty fun - like most PUGs it is hit or miss on the quality of people you group with. I actually do prefer to do them on my OP since I find that my pace gets met more often than not. You want to tank the mobs, be my guest.
I think the problem is more that this is the only way to get AD now so these are now just a grindfest. And after a while it gets old. And the new guy gets the shaft.
I think most of the salient points have been at least touched upon, just about everyone has a different play style, run these quests for different purposes, have different speeds inherent to their characters either by skill or buffs, but most importantly everyone starts off at the same point and no one can progress to the final conflict until all party members are together...
That being said those who prefer to try to run through the Cloak Tower to get to the boss gate as quickly as possible have little choice but to either abide at the final gate (do their nails or whatever) and await slower players or they can stay with the group and assist some of the slower less powerful players as everyone progress through the dungeon. If they have to wait at the boss gate and try to complain for having to do so, they only have themselves to blame. Perhaps if they would have not run so far ahead of the slower less capable players, they wouldn't have to wait so long and they'd have less to complain about.
Personally I try to take note of who the party leader is and attempt to match their style of progression when at all possible. Most of these areas are repeatable and anyone who felt they've had a less than satisfying run previously can always re-queue to run the dungeon at a later time or when at the end when other players are exiting, can always backtrack through the dungeon and explore at their leisure (hopefully without having to fight all the way to the front door).
just my two cents
DD~
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
Really? Because I know for a fact that when translating into a new zone my connection tends to lag. So by the time that screen is gone and I can actually move, the rest of the party is already down the hall in the second room.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
if they're running the clydsdale, (the easiest account wide way of getting Guile), they get another couple of k there.
The bold section is not true. Wolf of the Wild Hunt is cheaper and also an account wide mount with Gladiatior's Guile, but only that. If you only have one "main" the Black Stallion might be cheaper. (no AH access, I do so much miss the gateway!)
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In 90% of the runs the issue are neither run speed or inconsiderate BIS players, but ppl running cloak tower or CTA or POM with underequipped alts for RAD.
Seriously? We have descended to gear snobbery for a freaking level 16 dungeon? Just how much of a gear score do you expect a level 16 player to have? And if a level 16 player is meant to complete the dungeon with their limited gear range. It really shouldn't matter what level of gear a level 70 mule might have.
Read before you rant. I dont expect leveling new players to have 2k IL, but it was a while ago, that I saw a new player leveling his char in a CTA or TOS etc. Do yourself and us a favor and run some of these things and inspect the other players, before you form an opinion and berate others, I did it.
No new player has class artifacts unlocked, dragon born or other packages, but 90% of the low geared players will have one or some of the above mentioned. They dont take the time to put some R5s and some gear on their alts, when they run CTA, but god forbid for me or other players to be 'selfish' and dont carry them, so they dont have to mind about their alts.
Furthermore, if the 800 IL lvl 70 char is in a guild, that only invites well geared lvl 70 players, it takes no rocket scientist, to know, that it is an alt.
I did run CTA with my LS alts. It took me 3-5 minutes, to get them to 2k+ IL (class artifacts, account bound gear etc). To run POM with an 800 IL lvl 70 alt is rude, not leaving a group of those players.
The bold section is not true. Wolf of the Wild Hunt is cheaper and also an account wide mount with Gladiatior's Guile, but only that. If you only have one "main" the Black Stallion might be cheaper. (no AH access, I do so much miss the gateway!)
Yeah but IMO anyone running a store bought mount is going to get a 110% speed one both for the speed and the stat bonus however marginal that is on the clydsdale, (well i imagine PVP loves it but thats another matter entirely). Unless of course you allready have an account wide 110% mount and just want the bonus, but even then it strikes me as probably better to pick up the clydsdale.
Read before you rant. I dont expect leveling new players to have 2k IL, but it was a while ago, that I saw a new player leveling his char in a CTA or TOS etc. Do yourself and us a favor and run some of these things and inspect the other players, before you form an opinion and berate others, I did it.
No new player has class artifacts unlocked, dragon born or other packages, but 90% of the low geared players will have one or some of the above mentioned. They dont take the time to put some R5s and some gear on their alts, when they run CTA, but god forbid for me or other players to be 'selfish' and dont carry them, so they dont have to mind about their alts.
Furthermore, if the 800 IL lvl 70 char is in a guild, that only invites well geared lvl 70 players, it takes no rocket scientist, to know, that it is an alt.
I did run CTA with my LS alts. It took me 3-5 minutes, to get them to 2k+ IL (class artifacts, account bound gear etc). To run POM with an 800 IL lvl 70 alt is rude, not leaving a group of those players.
Still dosen;t change the fact that a lot of lower level players aren't going to have close to the gear score to keep up with a 2k i level player. And if you can put up with them then you can put up with an 800 ilevel 70. And if you can't put up with them then yeah. Your a gear snobbing *beep*.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
The bold section is not true. Wolf of the Wild Hunt is cheaper and also an account wide mount with Gladiatior's Guile, but only that. If you only have one "main" the Black Stallion might be cheaper. (no AH access, I do so much miss the gateway!)
Yeah but IMO anyone running a store bought mount is going to get a 110% speed one both for the speed and the stat bonus however marginal that is on the clydsdale, (well i imagine PVP loves it but thats another matter entirely). Unless of course you allready have an account wide 110% mount and just want the bonus, but even then it strikes me as probably better to pick up the clydsdale.
Read before you rant. I dont expect leveling new players to have 2k IL, but it was a while ago, that I saw a new player leveling his char in a CTA or TOS etc. Do yourself and us a favor and run some of these things and inspect the other players, before you form an opinion and berate others, I did it.
No new player has class artifacts unlocked, dragon born or other packages, but 90% of the low geared players will have one or some of the above mentioned. They dont take the time to put some R5s and some gear on their alts, when they run CTA, but god forbid for me or other players to be 'selfish' and dont carry them, so they dont have to mind about their alts.
Furthermore, if the 800 IL lvl 70 char is in a guild, that only invites well geared lvl 70 players, it takes no rocket scientist, to know, that it is an alt.
I did run CTA with my LS alts. It took me 3-5 minutes, to get them to 2k+ IL (class artifacts, account bound gear etc). To run POM with an 800 IL lvl 70 alt is rude, not leaving a group of those players.
Still dosen;t change the fact that a lot of lower level players aren't going to have close to the gear score to keep up with a 2k i level player. And if you can put up with them then you can put up with an 800 ilevel 70. And if you can't put up with them then yeah. Your a gear snobbing *beep*.
You are either not capable of following a logic argument or you are dense on purpose. A leveling new player cant help himself. He has to do with what he has. A player running a lvl 70 alt at 800 IL did neither bother to get account gear, class artifacts or slap some R5+ on his gear. His inability to contribute is not because of lack of funds or possibilities, but bc of laziness. I COULD carry 4 800 IL players in most of the T2 dungeons, but I WONT waste my time, bc they were to lazy to even pretend, to put some effort into their alts and are so greedy, that they run this with undergeared chars, hoping for others to carry their asses.
PS, the fact, that you feel inclined to use personal insults shows a lack of arguments and social upbringing.
I just cant understand why anyone would waste even a second doing gear checks for CT or CTAs. Those are made to cater to the lowest common denominator. They are the bunny slopes, the kiddie ride, the mild hot sauce. To pug one, as a player with any gear, and then complain about carrying people, is simply moronic.
I just cant understand why anyone would waste even a second doing gear checks for CT or CTAs. Those are made to cater to the lowest common denominator. They are the bunny slopes, the kiddie ride, the mild hot sauce. To pug one, as a player with any gear, and then complain about carrying people, is simply moronic.
To speculate about players, gear and IL and stating the speculation as fact and later claim, that checking said 'facts' is moronic Is moronic.
I have to agree with sockmonkey here. The CTA is basically a kiddy ride and if you are gear score checking those you need to step away from the keyboard. and I am trying to figure out how an 800iL 70 can even que into a T2 dungeon? None of mine can or I will being sending you an in game tell and asking for invites.
Also I have que up for CTA with a level70 with HAMSTER level 20 or 30 gear and done more dps than most in my group. Now who do i complain to about that? Maybe I need to send that group to you from some schooling?
Now I am wondering how any of this has anything to do with CLOAK TOWER ETIQUETTE???
I had an alt just last night around level 60 that I never bothered with the dungeon or zone. Now that we have this fancy new campaign system I wanted to go and complete the zones. I had started out with the pack and before I know it everyone is gone. O well I went ahead and let them run off and I just followed. Catching up at the boss fights and knowing they would not wait at the campfire for me to grab those two bonus chests I ran straight for the end. Didnt want to bother seeing the nasty text comments to me for holding up the speed run dont you know.
I have to agree with sockmonkey here. The CTA is basically a kiddy ride and if you are gear score checking those you need to step away from the keyboard. and I am trying to figure out how an 800iL 70 can even que into a T2 dungeon? None of mine can or I will being sending you an in game tell and asking for invites.
Also I have que up for CTA with a level70 with HAMSTER level 20 or 30 gear and done more dps than most in my group. Now who do i complain to about that? Maybe I need to send that group to you from some schooling?
Now I am wondering how any of this has anything to do with CLOAK TOWER ETIQUETTE???
I had an alt just last night around level 60 that I never bothered with the dungeon or zone. Now that we have this fancy new campaign system I wanted to go and complete the zones. I had started out with the pack and before I know it everyone is gone. O well I went ahead and let them run off and I just followed. Catching up at the boss fights and knowing they would not wait at the campfire for me to grab those two bonus chests I ran straight for the end. Didnt want to bother seeing the nasty text comments to me for holding up the speed run dont you know.
I checked some CTAs, TOS etc. runs bc everyone complains about leveling players who get pulled into speedruns and I see a leveling player who is not an alt in maybe 1 of 10 runs.
BTW POM and TOD are for lvl 70 without min IL. Good luck getting gold with a few 800 IL players in these runs. Yes, it is better to get gold, bc you will have a ring as reward for completing the skirmish instead of a chance, to get one.
I have to agree with sockmonkey here. The CTA is basically a kiddy ride and if you are gear score checking those you need to step away from the keyboard. and I am trying to figure out how an 800iL 70 can even que into a T2 dungeon? None of mine can or I will being sending you an in game tell and asking for invites.
Also I have que up for CTA with a level70 with HAMSTER level 20 or 30 gear and done more dps than most in my group. Now who do i complain to about that? Maybe I need to send that group to you from some schooling?
Now I am wondering how any of this has anything to do with CLOAK TOWER ETIQUETTE???
I had an alt just last night around level 60 that I never bothered with the dungeon or zone. Now that we have this fancy new campaign system I wanted to go and complete the zones. I had started out with the pack and before I know it everyone is gone. O well I went ahead and let them run off and I just followed. Catching up at the boss fights and knowing they would not wait at the campfire for me to grab those two bonus chests I ran straight for the end. Didnt want to bother seeing the nasty text comments to me for holding up the speed run dont you know.
I checked some CTAs, TOS etc. runs bc everyone complains about leveling players who get pulled into speedruns and I see a leveling player who is not an alt in maybe 1 of 10 runs.
BTW POM and TOD are for lvl 70 without min IL. Good luck getting gold with a few 800 IL players in these runs. Yes, it is better to get gold, bc you will have a ring as reward for completing the skirmish instead of a chance, to get one.
I guess you missed the whole CLOAK TOWER ETIQUETTE part, o well at least I know you should be expecting my 800IL 70 for POM and TOD. Just a heads up. I do have one that should be hitting 70 very soon that still has his beach gear only that he washed up on. I may wait until he hits 70 to start asking you to join me cya soon.
I never see anyone with so much run speed that I can't keep up. This includes the 5 level 12 characters I leveled via running cloak tower all the way to 70 and additional runs I've done at 70. I was including the fact GWF have sprint as 2 of my characters are teleport/roll characters.
Then you've been fortunate, they're not super common in the PUG queue but they absolutely exist. Get my paladin a Clydsdale and i could give most people issues keeping up with me. Throw on some R12'ds and go to a class with a suitable base run speed buff and there is simply no way most classes are going to keep up. Especially not lowbies.
I wouldn't call that fortunate, considering I leveled 5 characters from 12 to 70 in cloak tower with gear from the tutorial island. You talking hypothetical isn't really helping at this point.
If I really wanted to, I could jack up my run speed significantly in dungeons. All R12 dark enchants gets me over 9%, a quickling adds another 0.75% and if I have a legendary companion a little more. I can then occasionally swap HR stances for an extra boost. That's all without having to resort to some really old "run-fast" gear I have in the bank like Arachnomancer's Rings. And then, of course, there's the Clydesdale.
I think most of the salient points have been at least touched upon, just about everyone has a different play style, run these quests for different purposes, have different speeds inherent to their characters either by skill or buffs, but most importantly everyone starts off at the same point and no one can progress to the final conflict until all party members are together...
That being said those who prefer to try to run through the Cloak Tower to get to the boss gate as quickly as possible have little choice but to either abide at the final gate (do their nails or whatever) and await slower players or they can stay with the group and assist some of the slower less powerful players as everyone progress through the dungeon. If they have to wait at the boss gate and try to complain for having to do so, they only have themselves to blame. Perhaps if they would have not run so far ahead of the slower less capable players, they wouldn't have to wait so long and they'd have less to complain about.
Personally I try to take note of who the party leader is and attempt to match their style of progression when at all possible. Most of these areas are repeatable and anyone who felt they've had a less than satisfying run previously can always re-queue to run the dungeon at a later time or when at the end when other players are exiting, can always backtrack through the dungeon and explore at their leisure (hopefully without having to fight all the way to the front door).
just my two cents
Again, there is no excuse for not making it to the end in a timely manner. I'm not saying that new players are going to be running right next to a player with gear but they shouldn't be too far behind. My 5 characters mentioned above had no issue with this at all.
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
Really? Because I know for a fact that when translating into a new zone my connection tends to lag. So by the time that screen is gone and I can actually move, the rest of the party is already down the hall in the second room.
Your connection issues aren't considered "normal player activity". If your connection is so bad that a small amount of bytes per second or KB/s are causing lag you should fix that issue because it really is your own problem, not the problem of other players. Barely any throughput is required when loading into a map.
In the end, we don't need any players inventing what they believe is etiquette for a dungeon. That's how we got in the mess we're in with the whole "gg" thing in PvP. It's unnecessary and pointless.
Atodaso@sneak#6191 Tornado Of Souls
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Your connection issues aren't considered "normal player activity". If your connection is so bad that a small amount of bytes per second or KB/s are causing lag you should fix that issue because it really is your own problem, not the problem of other players. Barely any throughput is required when loading into a map.
In the end, we don't need any players inventing what they believe is etiquette for a dungeon. That's how we got in the mess we're in with the whole "gg" thing in PvP. It's unnecessary and pointless.
My connection issues begin and end where the cable demarcation is. Outside of the house my connection issues are at the mercy of Comcast, Cogent, etc.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I think it's plain rude to run through everything, leaving the party behind, and quickly slaughtering the bosses when others are too far away to get the seals bonus from it. When you don't have good gear yet, the seals can be handy. I'm not saying let everyone do some damage...but at least stay near the group.
If everyone wants to run, that's fine...if you're one that wants to do that, I suggest asking in party if everyone is ok with that first, or if you want to group them up to blast them with AoE, let everyone know that's your plan so they can help out with the strategy.
You all start at the same spot. If you don't keep up with the group it's your own fault.
My paladin is slow. Same with my GF. Nothing I can really afford to do about it. I pick encounter or at will powers specifically that let me charge at enemies to try and keep up with some people. I swear I feel like a turtle playing the paladin...but if the enemies are too far chasing the lead guy, nothing I've been able to do really to keep up.
I guess it feels like a race sometimes instead of a party, and it bothers me sometimes. It's really boring just to be moving along behind someone with nothing to do except aim for the occasional couple copper pieces.
Does anyone who posted here know what happens to the poor soul that falls behind?
If they fall far enough the no longer recieve drops or xp. So lets just keep speed running, the chest at the end is all that matters amiright?
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
You will find that the majority only concern themselves with "me" when they are doing a dungeon run. And that is how they see it; a run. From the time they zone in until they open the chest/exit, the entire thing should only take 2 minutes so that they can hurry up and do the next 2 minute thing so that their time isn't "wasted".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The problem here is that lvl70 characters are not treating low level characters as dungeon partners. With real-life constraints and whatnot, lvl70 players don't have the time to worry about others and runs off.
Considering how real life community works, I'm not surprised it sips its way into the game community.
It's a fact. Everyone is calculative in this game. No one is playing and worrying about their teammates during PuG dungeon runs.
To those who actually wants to have fun all the way, I suggest that you skip everything related to public queue and invite your friends to play.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Yeah, uh, let's not be all inclusive in our denials of people. Okay?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I sure wish I could solo que or go to doors and run in solo on my 70s however as I understand all of that was removed to fight bots so you can only que and go in groups.
Before the 3man/5man current setup I usually never got in groups for various reasons anyway.
O well I guess its just as easy to say I am forced into doing the speed run with them as it is to say I am forced to play catchup on my lowbies and any one new.
Sad part is I think its sets up the rest of the game for new players to expect speed runs and instant gratification. Well you out level everything so fast, zones, dungeons, professions etc I guess we are just as well as it is anyway amiright?
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Tornado Of Souls
Many of the high geared players are running Clydsdale or similar mounts that give them Gladiators Guile and with Dark Enchants in the Utilities giving them a couple of thousand movement stat and if they're running the clydsdale, 9the easiest account wide way of getting Guile), they get another couple of k there.
Finally some classes get run speed innate to a class feature or two and GWF just love to charge off ahead at high speed using their shift functionality.
I've seen characters with just 1.2k movement rating have >25% run speed buff just from personal stuff. I'd guess north of 35% is possibble with enough movement stacking. no way in any imaginable number of hells your keeping up with that as a newbie.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
Tornado Of Souls
Then you've been fortunate, they're not super common in the PUG queue but they absolutely exist. Get my paladin a Clydsdale and i could give most people issues keeping up with me. Throw on some R12'ds and go to a class with a suitable base run speed buff and there is simply no way most classes are going to keep up. Especially not lowbies.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
I don't because it's inconsiderate.
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I did run the current CTA with 20 chars. 6x 3k+ 14 with 2k-2.5k. The 14 chars are LS alts equipped with hand me downs, class artifacts, no boons at all and no/lesser weapon enchants. Guess what. My GF LS alts were paingiver in 8 of 10 runs.
There is no argument to be made, that the other guys were leveling/ new players. New players dont have class artifacts, dragon born packs, SW packs account mounts etc. You are lucky, if they at last pretend to try to contribute. Some stay at spawn for most of the time, some just run around to loot.
Where is the etiquette of these ppl?
I was in a CT run over the weekend using my Pally who alone would take forever. The others made it to the end and I slowed them down because of the slow movement of the toon plus the enemies that were left alive! In the end I just kept walking and msg'd them I was coming in "hot" LMAO
If everything was killed it would have gone a LOT faster. So this goes both ways, the guys who are OP want a fast run and most who are not OP want a fast run. IMO the goal of running cloak tower is the AD not the play experience
The first time I did CT I joined the queue, and zoned in. I said a greeting in chat, no response. The other 2, which I assume were high level, took off. I had to use my shift sprint to hope to keep up (warlock), and barely got any spells off but I could at least somewhat keep up. If I would have paused to loot anything I'd have gotten left behind. We did not deviate from the sparkly path in any way, shape or form. Not a word spoken the entire time. For a first time impression of a dungeon it was pretty unwelcoming.
My second time through was with a paladin at 16ish. I could NOT keep up. Again, no one spoke, and I was just plodding along and figured well, they'll have to wait for me at the boss. I just kept moving along, and at least they cleared as they went so I didn't run into much in the way of orcs. I did get delayed at the bookcase thing because I didn't know they jumped over so I had to fight. I was almost to boss and I got booted for taking too long. Gee, thanks. My second run went MUCH more smoothly, because it was a couple of higher levels that took the time and went to my pace and actually let me tank. In fact, I got on a friends list and was told I did a good job (been tanking since EQ1 days, POP era).
I don't have artifacts, or fancy mounts, much less any high level enchantments, as I haven't determined yet if this is a game worth dumping any money into. I'm just saying guys, take a sec to say hi in group chat and just ask if there's anyone new...might make the difference in someone sticking around for the long haul. I don't mind a speed run (I.e. no exploration, no finding all the nooks and crannies to get all the possible loot) but at least match speeds with the slowest person so they don't feel abandoned lol. And at the end of the day don't people want new folks to stick around?
I've done a handful of the dungeons now on my SW and OP and they are pretty fun - like most PUGs it is hit or miss on the quality of people you group with. I actually do prefer to do them on my OP since I find that my pace gets met more often than not.
I think the problem is more that this is the only way to get AD now so these are now just a grindfest. And after a while it gets old. And the new guy gets the shaft.
That being said those who prefer to try to run through the Cloak Tower to get to the boss gate as quickly as possible have little choice but to either abide at the final gate (do their nails or whatever) and await slower players or they can stay with the group and assist some of the slower less powerful players as everyone progress through the dungeon. If they have to wait at the boss gate and try to complain for having to do so, they only have themselves to blame. Perhaps if they would have not run so far ahead of the slower less capable players, they wouldn't have to wait so long and they'd have less to complain about.
Personally I try to take note of who the party leader is and attempt to match their style of progression when at all possible. Most of these areas are repeatable and anyone who felt they've had a less than satisfying run previously can always re-queue to run the dungeon at a later time or when at the end when other players are exiting, can always backtrack through the dungeon and explore at their leisure (hopefully without having to fight all the way to the front door).
just my two cents
If you only have one "main" the Black Stallion might be cheaper. (no AH access, I do so much miss the gateway!)
No new player has class artifacts unlocked, dragon born or other packages, but 90% of the low geared players will have one or some of the above mentioned. They dont take the time to put some R5s and some gear on their alts, when they run CTA, but god forbid for me or other players to be 'selfish' and dont carry them, so they dont have to mind about their alts.
Furthermore, if the 800 IL lvl 70 char is in a guild, that only invites well geared lvl 70 players, it takes no rocket scientist, to know, that it is an alt.
I did run CTA with my LS alts. It took me 3-5 minutes, to get them to 2k+ IL (class artifacts, account bound gear etc). To run POM with an 800 IL lvl 70 alt is rude, not leaving a group of those players.
If you only have one "main" the Black Stallion might be cheaper. (no AH access, I do so much miss the gateway!)
Yeah but IMO anyone running a store bought mount is going to get a 110% speed one both for the speed and the stat bonus however marginal that is on the clydsdale, (well i imagine PVP loves it but thats another matter entirely). Unless of course you allready have an account wide 110% mount and just want the bonus, but even then it strikes me as probably better to pick up the clydsdale.
No new player has class artifacts unlocked, dragon born or other packages, but 90% of the low geared players will have one or some of the above mentioned. They dont take the time to put some R5s and some gear on their alts, when they run CTA, but god forbid for me or other players to be 'selfish' and dont carry them, so they dont have to mind about their alts.
Furthermore, if the 800 IL lvl 70 char is in a guild, that only invites well geared lvl 70 players, it takes no rocket scientist, to know, that it is an alt.
I did run CTA with my LS alts. It took me 3-5 minutes, to get them to 2k+ IL (class artifacts, account bound gear etc). To run POM with an 800 IL lvl 70 alt is rude, not leaving a group of those players.
Still dosen;t change the fact that a lot of lower level players aren't going to have close to the gear score to keep up with a 2k i level player. And if you can put up with them then you can put up with an 800 ilevel 70. And if you can't put up with them then yeah. Your a gear snobbing *beep*.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
PS, the fact, that you feel inclined to use personal insults shows a lack of arguments and social upbringing.
Also I have que up for CTA with a level70 with HAMSTER level 20 or 30 gear and done more dps than most in my group. Now who do i complain to about that? Maybe I need to send that group to you from some schooling?
Now I am wondering how any of this has anything to do with CLOAK TOWER ETIQUETTE???
I had an alt just last night around level 60 that I never bothered with the dungeon or zone. Now that we have this fancy new campaign system I wanted to go and complete the zones. I had started out with the pack and before I know it everyone is gone. O well I went ahead and let them run off and I just followed. Catching up at the boss fights and knowing they would not wait at the campfire for me to grab those two bonus chests I ran straight for the end. Didnt want to bother seeing the nasty text comments to me for holding up the speed run dont you know.
BTW POM and TOD are for lvl 70 without min IL. Good luck getting gold with a few 800 IL players in these runs. Yes, it is better to get gold, bc you will have a ring as reward for completing the skirmish instead of a chance, to get one.
In the end, we don't need any players inventing what they believe is etiquette for a dungeon. That's how we got in the mess we're in with the whole "gg" thing in PvP. It's unnecessary and pointless.
Tornado Of Souls
I guess it feels like a race sometimes instead of a party, and it bothers me sometimes. It's really boring just to be moving along behind someone with nothing to do except aim for the occasional couple copper pieces.
If they fall far enough the no longer recieve drops or xp. So lets just keep speed running, the chest at the end is all that matters amiright?
Considering how real life community works, I'm not surprised it sips its way into the game community.
It's a fact. Everyone is calculative in this game. No one is playing and worrying about their teammates during PuG dungeon runs.
To those who actually wants to have fun all the way, I suggest that you skip everything related to public queue and invite your friends to play.
Before the 3man/5man current setup I usually never got in groups for various reasons anyway.
O well I guess its just as easy to say I am forced into doing the speed run with them as it is to say I am forced to play catchup on my lowbies and any one new.
Sad part is I think its sets up the rest of the game for new players to expect speed runs and instant gratification. Well you out level everything so fast, zones, dungeons, professions etc I guess we are just as well as it is anyway amiright?