FI is for 3.1k il when in game so many people have 4k+ no reason to go there...
No offense, but there is no difference between a 3.9k player and a 4.2k player other than whats on their utility slots and as for 3.5-3.9k, thats defense slots + kits. There is no reason for a single dungeon to be designed for a 4k player, because there is next to no benefit to being 4k and you are deluding yourself by thinking 4k content will ever be designed.
What I would do: Additionally to the the base loot, take the final chest drop a lucky charm, this charm will give 10% more chance to find a +5/ +4 rings, artifact gear or boon books on the chest of another dungeon/squirmish, this charm will be consumed(yes, this means 10% more chance to drop a horn of lostmauth). This way this dungeon would incentivate to keep all content alive.
This charm would make the 3.1k people get way more AD then for example a 100% more salvageable AD. Thus furthering the gap.
I run Fangbreaker, get the charm, go CN get the Orcus shard artifact (10% chance now). Sell it. Rinse and repeat.
It is true but it will be true for how long? The gold with this is lower massively the price of old content. Back in mod 5 in just some days of farming i would get a full bis equipment set, why must orcus set be so expensive when, for example sloted on a gwf the diference between it and twined rope of dexterity + random artifacts will be around just 5℅?
Dungeon Rewards: To raise interest farming FBI you should add some unique valuable unboud or BOE reward with low drop chance, wich players can sell in auction, that will make players farm it again and again when they will get all new gear and finish new campain. For for example: rare artifacts like Oghma's Token of Free Movement, Thayan Book of the Dead etc. CN and T1 dungeons have its Artifacts, Demogorgon has +4/+5 rings. FBI do not have any realy valuable unique reward at all.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited August 2016
@thefabricant i wont have much time to try the dg so a thousand thanks for the video. Abou the il lowering you mention i disagree, this was a awesome party but remember there ill be a open queue, classes are getting fixed but a dps configuration will always be the best, for example a temptation, a sentinel, a protector and a faithfull dc all fall in the same group, the dungeon will be so slow there will be more risks and no way a 2.9 k team would do it in a decent amount of time, probably 2hours maybe.
Rank 8s are the new rank 5s. No one who is capable of completing this high level dungeon needs any rank 8s. How about some preservation wards instead? Those I might actually use. And if I see a single peridot drop from any boss or mini boss, I am done here. That's just an insult to players.
Yeah, I agree with this one. Pres wards or even coal wards would be great!
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Rank 8s are the new rank 5s. No one who is capable of completing this high level dungeon needs any rank 8s. How about some preservation wards instead? Those I might actually use. And if I see a single peridot drop from any boss or mini boss, I am done here. That's just an insult to players.
I agree that pres wards would be great but rank 8s dropping in dungeons is better than pres wards because it skips a step in the upgrades to r12. I'd rather see pres wards replace peridots and such as the consolation prize drop. 'Course for this to happen they'd pretty much have to lower the price of wards in the zen market or the AH will get flooded and no one will buy wards from the zen market.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I like that except for that Lesser Thaum stone. Could do without that, lol. Blues or better please.
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Wait, so are the rewards almost entirely campaign specific junk?
Oh... good point... So when you finish the campaign, you either don't run the dungeon anymore, or you stock up on the campaign stuff for no good reason. (Haven't looked at the new campaign to see if there are repeatable things at the end).
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Wait, so are the rewards almost entirely campaign specific junk?
Oh... good point... So when you finish the campaign, you either don't run the dungeon anymore, or you stock up on the campaign stuff for no good reason. (Haven't looked at the new campaign to see if there are repeatable things at the end).
@kreatyve, you have to complete the campaign, to unlock the dungeon
To me there seems to be a huge disparity with what the Dev team consider rewarding and what those who play the game think is. People want to feel rewarded for completing a challenge.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited August 2016
It's a very good point that most people who would be able to enter this dungeon would already be using R9 enchants or better.
The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing improvements.
Things needed/wanted: Wards (both Pres and Coal) Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior) Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound) Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters) Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these) Epic Insignias Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many) Bonding runestones (lol)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems. (Edit: and the other items shown since I went to get a coffee.)
@asterdahl Please make sure the rewards in this dungeon make it worth the time and money invested to get to 3.1k item level plus the other requirements.
Hi Kreatyve! The drops for Fangbreaker Island have been improved relative to Castle Never and previous epic dungeons. Both chests at the end of Fangbreaker Island will have a chance to drop a rank 8 enchantment. We've also made improvements to the refinement items granted and included new enchantments. As always you'll also have a chance to obtain equipment that can be salvaged and the usual seals.
This is all on top of the un-restored relics you'll be restoring to obtain the new relic armor. Keep in mind that of course, while we've made some adjustments to Fangbreaker's rewards that should make it worthwhile to run if you can meet the requirements, the rewards can vary from run to run, but it should be a noticeable improvement if you can manage to conquer the challenge.
The loot quality will have to be significantly higher than this to get people to continue to run this dungeon. For reference, Castle Never has a chance to drop rank 8s as well. My team can run Castle Never in 10 minutes. That same team takes 30-40 minutes to run Fangbreaker. That means, we can do 3-4 CNs in the time it takes to do 1 Fangbreaker, which means for the loot of Fangbreaker to be comparable, it needs to be 3-4 times as good. My suggestion is all 3 bosses have a guaranteed salvage drop that ranges in value from 4-6k (which means you get 12-18k from the salvage) 1 guaranteed rank 8 in either chest (which range in value from 2k-30k) and a chance at a rank 9. Alternatively, it would also be nice if the gear pieces from Fangbreaker were unbound. Alternatively, if the dungeon dropped epic stronghold vouchers, that would also be great.
With the current loot table you are proposing however, once people have finished farming their gear, there will be no reason to run Fangbreaker. I am sure this is not what you want. What I find unsatisfying is how rewarding the new events are, (for example, summer festival, siege event) compared to all other content in the game. There is no challenge to farming those events at all, anyone can do it. There is absolutely 0 risk and yet the payout is so much higher than any of the dungeons in the game. Considering you would actually have to work hard for any reward in Fangbreaker, its loot should out class seasonal events anyhow.
Feedback: Dungeon Design.
Give my thanks to whoever designed this dungeon though. I absolutely love it. I would just like it if the bosses were tweaked and made harder as currently they are less challenging than the packs of monsters. Over all, it is a great design.
Feedback: Item Level Requirement.
Currently, the requirement is 3.1k. It would make more sense if it was 2.9k, but with the same difficulty. Why is this? Well, the difference between 3.1k and 2.9k is the difference between fully refined legendary artifacts and mythic artifacts, which have hardly any stat difference and yet grant a huge ilvl boost. Given those circumstances, there isn't really any reason for it to be 3.1k as a 2.9k player would still manage.
This makes alot of sense to me regarding the loot. If your group can do CN in 10 min and this new one in 40 min, then the loot has to be 4x better than CN. Anything lower would make this dungeon obsolete before it even goes live.
I mean if you run CN with a "okay" party that are not BiS and it takes 20 min, even the loot there is not worth the time. With same group in fang dungeon it would take like an hour or even more and for what? Rank 8?
If the loot does not get upgraded 4x better than CN, then I have to say this will be such a huge disappointment that I would probably take a break from this game.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many)
@beckylunatic This is an amazing idea. A token that isn't a mount, but unlocks 140% speed on your character. BoE, of course so people can sell it.
Also, put the Legendary Rings on the loot tables, but BoE as well. Even if they're only a 1:5000 chance, it'll make it worth it for people to run it for the chance at a big payout.
The developers have to understand that most people who are at or above 3.1k iLevel are already pretty deep into their character advancement, so we need rewards that aren't soloing just about advancing your character's gear.
Think more critically about non-gear rewards that could still be really valuable or worthwhile.
For most of who just jump'd over to the Preview just to try out the Dungoen.....I'll just say, the story doesn't end here. Maybe those currencies will be needed in the next exciting chapter. That line above the Scout Cold Run looks ominous.
For most of who just jump'd over to the Preview just to try out the Dungoen.....I'll just say, the story doesn't end here. Maybe those currencies will be needed in the next exciting chapter. That line above the Scout Cold Run looks ominous.
The campaign UI does have space for an addition, much like how Tiamat extended ToD rather than starting on a new campaign tab. So this is a fair observation.
For most of who just jump'd over to the Preview just to try out the Dungoen.....I'll just say, the story doesn't end here. Maybe those currencies will be needed in the next exciting chapter. That line above the Scout Cold Run looks ominous.
*Don't read the line above*
If you are trying to sell me the idea that those currencies are a worthwhile reward, you will be joining the snake oil salesman on this list of untrustworthy businessmen
So I need the campaign currencies to unlock the dungeon and get campaign currencies for completing the dungeon. I'm lost. Oh, right... I need more currencies to get better gear, so I can do the dungeon. Wait... What?
That's the concern I was raising in one of the other threads as well. If there isn't consistent loot unattached to SKT content and you're only running the dungeon to be able to run the dungeon more convenient in the future, FBI is too easy to skip. People can farm CN and eTOS instead.
I here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many)
@beckylunatic This is an amazing idea. A token that isn't a mount, but unlocks 140% speed on your character. BoE, of course so people can sell it.
Introducing such tokens (mount attack, equip, speed powers) has been brought up by the smart peeps of banned website some time ago and I'm a big fan of it as well.
@asterdahl What good are rank 8 enchantments when most people that will be eligible to run the dungeon will be wearing 9s or better? Please consider this when you are deciding on the loot table.
This would just depress enchant prices pretty seriously.
I'd rather see them add a ton of RP to the rewards. Even at 3.1k you need a **** ton of RP and the demand for it is so high that they could be pretty generous without causing problems.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited August 2016
I still think it should be at least 3k. AT LEAST.
What I need to upgrade in order to hit 3.1k does not IMPROVE my characters other than adding the blanket of seeming better due to the flawed ilvl.
Upgrade my non-primary artifacts to mythic when they're already 139? I don't use em as a primary, there's no use of them being mythic. Upgrade dragon hoard enchants? Do those make me tank or kill any better? Also the amount of RP needed for 4 pieces of legendary artifact gear is stupid beyond belief. The MH/OH should be enough.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
It is possible to kill the last boss too quickly, resulting in him running to the middle to do Call of Winter, whilst not having summoned the permafrost shards to hide behind.
Comments
- harder dungeons!
- good loot
FI is for 3.1k il when in game so many people have 4k+ no reason to go there...
Dungeon Rewards:
To raise interest farming FBI you should add some unique valuable unboud or BOE reward with low drop chance, wich players can sell in auction, that will make players farm it again and again when they will get all new gear and finish new campain.
For for example: rare artifacts like Oghma's Token of Free Movement, Thayan Book of the Dead etc.
CN and T1 dungeons have its Artifacts, Demogorgon has +4/+5 rings. FBI do not have any realy valuable unique reward at all.
Abou the il lowering you mention i disagree, this was a awesome party but remember there ill be a open queue, classes are getting fixed but a dps configuration will always be the best, for example a temptation, a sentinel, a protector and a faithfull dc all fall in the same group, the dungeon will be so slow there will be more risks and no way a 2.9 k team would do it in a decent amount of time, probably 2hours maybe.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I agree that pres wards would be great but rank 8s dropping in dungeons is better than pres wards because it skips a step in the upgrades to r12. I'd rather see pres wards replace peridots and such as the consolation prize drop. 'Course for this to happen they'd pretty much have to lower the price of wards in the zen market or the AH will get flooded and no one will buy wards from the zen market.
Totally worth it.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Proof:
People want to feel rewarded for completing a challenge.
The things players want in order to keep improving their characters are costly. Back again to the need to treat the game as an AD vending machine, because the game dictates that you need millions of ADs in order to continue seeing improvements.
Things needed/wanted:
Wards (both Pres and Coal)
Marks of Potency (Greater/Superior)
Companion Upgrade Tokens (pack of 15 because the upgrade costs are all multiples of 15, either unbound or account-bound)
Cubes of Augmentation (cheaper than they were because of lockboxes and events but still unacceptably expensive if you gear multiple characters)
Epic Reinforcement Kits/Jewels (unless y'all finally reconsider the AD cost on these)
Epic Insignias
Mounts (thought here, 140% speed unlock token would be something players less interested in a mount combat power would still want very much, even potentially for alts, so unbound or account-bound would be desirable loot for many)
Bonding runestones (lol)
Just some thoughts on items players would likely be happier to see than R8 gems. (Edit: and the other items shown since I went to get a coffee.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I mean if you run CN with a "okay" party that are not BiS and it takes 20 min, even the loot there is not worth the time. With same group in fang dungeon it would take like an hour or even more and for what? Rank 8?
If the loot does not get upgraded 4x better than CN, then I have to say this will be such a huge disappointment that I would probably take a break from this game.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Also, put the Legendary Rings on the loot tables, but BoE as well. Even if they're only a 1:5000 chance, it'll make it worth it for people to run it for the chance at a big payout.
The developers have to understand that most people who are at or above 3.1k iLevel are already pretty deep into their character advancement, so we need rewards that aren't soloing just about advancing your character's gear.
Think more critically about non-gear rewards that could still be really valuable or worthwhile.
For most of who just jump'd over to the Preview just to try out the Dungoen.....I'll just say, the story doesn't end here. Maybe those currencies will be needed in the next exciting chapter. That line above the Scout Cold Run looks ominous.
*Don't read the line above*
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'd rather see them add a ton of RP to the rewards. Even at 3.1k you need a **** ton of RP and the demand for it is so high that they could be pretty generous without causing problems.
What I need to upgrade in order to hit 3.1k does not IMPROVE my characters other than adding the blanket of seeming better due to the flawed ilvl.
Upgrade my non-primary artifacts to mythic when they're already 139? I don't use em as a primary, there's no use of them being mythic. Upgrade dragon hoard enchants? Do those make me tank or kill any better? Also the amount of RP needed for 4 pieces of legendary artifact gear is stupid beyond belief. The MH/OH should be enough.
Bug: Last boss.
It is possible to kill the last boss too quickly, resulting in him running to the middle to do Call of Winter, whilst not having summoned the permafrost shards to hide behind.