beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited August 2016
With regard to the invoke changes, I know it's late in the cycle for making big modifications to the build, but please consider restructuring the stacking AD-bonus so that the largest amount is granted off the first invoke and then gets incrementally smaller as time goes on. This benefits players who are logging in close to the reset time and struggle to get the entire cycle in, because the main bonus is granted up-front. It benefits players who just want to log in and go run some content, which is exactly the behavior you're supposedly trying to reward, rather than us logging in and hitting a few buttons multiple times. The thing is, the new system still demands that you keep logging in and hitting those buttons because the main rewards are still deep into the cycle. It's not freeing at all, except to players who aren't going to bother to engage with it at all. And designing things that your players refuse to engage with is bad design.
The bigger AD rewards were moved to the end of the cycle to make them take more time to obtain, which was sensible enough when the AD was an immediate payout. But with it being a bonus that you have to work for, so to speak, you should get the main bonus right away so that you can go do some stuff and actually see the bonus working for you. If the intent is to get more AD into the hands of your active players, it needs to be accessible to people who actually spend their time running content and not locked behind a three-hour delay from first login.
Ideally, I'd still rather see any kind of AD income not married to invoking at all anymore, BUT I figure tweaking these values into the reverse of the order they're in now might be something you guys could still squeeze in. Please!
With regard to the invoke changes, I know it's late in the cycle for making big modifications to the build, but please consider restructuring the stacking AD-bonus so that the largest amount is granted off the first invoke and then gets incrementally smaller as time goes on. This benefits players who are logging in close to the reset time and struggle to get the entire cycle in, because the main bonus is granted up-front. It benefits players who just want to log in and go run some content, which is exactly the behavior you're supposedly trying to reward, rather than us logging in and hitting a few buttons multiple times. The thing is, the new system still demands that you keep logging in and hitting those buttons because the main rewards are still deep into the cycle. It's not freeing at all, except to players who aren't going to bother to engage with it at all. And designing things that your players refuse to engage with is bad design.
The bigger AD rewards were moved to the end of the cycle to make them take more time to obtain, which was sensible enough when the AD was an immediate payout. But with it being a bonus that you have to work for, so to speak, you should get the main bonus right away so that you can go do some stuff and actually see the bonus working for you. If the intent is to get more AD into the hands of your active players, it needs to be accessible to people who actually spend their time running content and not locked behind a three-hour delay from first login.
Ideally, I'd still rather see any kind of AD income not married to invoking at all anymore, BUT I figure tweaking these values into the reverse of the order they're in now might be something you guys could still squeeze in. Please!
@Panderus and @rgutscheradev, can you comment on these 2 analysis done by a player about the new invoke system please? Based on this info @checkmatein3 gives here the new invoke system is going to by miserable to work with. I don't have time to do 2.5 hours of invoking on characters i want to play each day BEFORE i can even play lest i waste the raw AD i gain each day. having to pass out salvage to each toon and micro manage how much they salvage each day is such a horrible annoyance. The only people who won't care about this are bots. Bots do stuff like this really easily, that is why automation is so nice.
You should just scrap the multi- invokes a day, or reduce to 2. the first gets you everything (keep it as a bonus to raw AD like the new system so that bots have to actually go earn the salvage still), the second you have to wait the full timer of 4 hours to get the second celestial coin. yes, bots can easily accomplish this, but they are doing it ANYWAY. Save your servers stress and make the lives of your players less stressful as well.
-EDIT- I i understand the invoking system won't see a rework anytime soon, but perhaps you could flatten out the AD bonus gained per invoke so as to make it a bit more rewarding in the first set on invokes. or flatten the bonus and make it over 4 invokes instead of 5. simplifying this is important for retaining sanity
Post edited by scathias on
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“Salvage values for Neverwinter have not been very consistent. Now that we're adding a new tier of gear, we really want to streamline what items gave. Going forward, all items of level 130+ that are salvageable will have their salvage value determined by rarity and size (Small/Medium/Large) only. (Small = Neck, Waist, Ring, Shirt, Pants; Medium = Arms, Feet, Head, Offhand; Large = Body, Mainhand) In practice, the biggest effect of these changes is that some rings have gone down in value and some Elemental/Protector seal gear has gone up.” -terramak
Salvage values: They may not have been “consistent”, but they were not a problem.
“ In practice, the biggest effect of these changes is that some rings have gone down in value and some Elemental/Protector seal gear has gone up.”
The biggest effect?? The BIGGEST effect is that those “some rings” that “have gone down in value” is at least 80% of our salvage! There are only two ways to make AD in this game, by spending our time to get salvageable items or our money. What you are doing here is lowering the value of our time. Instead of rewarding us for playing your game, you are insulting us. Blue rings (Small T1, +1, +2) make up at least 80% of the drops for our salvage and it is going to be reduced by 33% starting mod 10.
These are the salvage values I think will be fair considering the current in-game economy:
Small T1: 3000 Medium T1: 4000 Large T1: 5000
Small T2: 4000 Medium T2: 5000 Large T2: 6000
+1, +2 rings: 3000 +3, +4 rings: 4000
The point is, the blue gear should keep their current value and have only the purple gear be adjusted in value.The “rare” value items (blue gear) does not have to drop in salvage value to make the “epic” items (purple gear) look more important. The blue +1 and +2 rings contain the mass potential in drops and are what is keeping the current economy afloat when it comes to playing the newer content. This includes CN, you can go through the whole dungeon and end up getting only a blue ring at the end. Maybe there should be and epic CN to at least eliminate that problem. Everything in-game keeps getting expensive and will keep doing so as the rate of botting diminishes. So cutting down on the larger source of income will cause a problem that will continue to grow in weight as the developers progress in shutting down the botters. I am sure the game developers have worked hard on finding ways to make AD farming easier for actual players. The change in salvage values, currently available in preview, is a huge step backwards. Please do not diminish the value of our time, let the players who don’t always have the extra income to throw into the game feel appreciated too.
Are they trying to add relevance to Tier 2 Dungeons by making them a place to farm ad (Epic Gear)??? IF so.. it's good they are trying to add relevance to them, but.. really.. lol.
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I would think there will be more scrubs as most people above 3.1k have bought there way into it. If its 2.8k there will be less scrubs as people around that level will actually have done something for it.
Best example are the dragonflight items. Someone who bows will buy strongbox keys and suddenly you get up to 3x the amount of fangs. kill 1 dragon = 0 fangs for ftp but 2 fangs for paying people. Kill 2 dragons and its 1 vs 3. Meaning it will at least take twice as long to get a dragonflight item.
Same applies with high level enchants. How can a ftp generate the many millions of AD you need for those? You can play the market ofc and do your normal stuff in game. But when selling ZEN you all of a sudden have a shitton of AD.
While this story might seem as if I disagree with the high entrypoint, I dont. Its good to have something for when you are highly geared and it gives something to aspire too.
Secondly, in pugruns you will always get kicked out if you aren't at least 200-400 above the itemlevel, so any 3.1k person will have a hard time until at least 3.4/3.5k
PS: yesterday had a CN run with a 2.0k ilvl and a 3.5k ilvl pally tank. Guess who had to tank the first boss? Guess who kept instantly dieing at Orcus?
Just a quick question in regards to invocation and AD. Is there a bonus to the AD bonus for VIP? (If it's already in here I missed it, my apologies if thats the case)
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Just a quick question in regards to invocation and AD. Is there a bonus to the AD bonus for VIP? (If it's already in here I missed it, my apologies if thats the case)
Nobody has yet troubled themselves to answer this question.
Just a quick question in regards to invocation and AD. Is there a bonus to the AD bonus for VIP? (If it's already in here I missed it, my apologies if thats the case)
Nobody has yet troubled themselves to answer this question.
I thought Robert already answered this, but yes, it works with both 2x AD to consume the bonus RAD faster and VIP with to grant extra bonus RAD.
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
An updated store is what I would like to see, it has lost some of its luster it once held.
+1 .. All my chars are at 500/500 ardent coins. Can't be bothered to get angels to sell. Was hoping something new coming in mod10? Are you teasing it? ;D
as far as invoking goes.. dunno why you dont have a timer that just counts down while the player is logged in.. stay logged in for 4 hrs, get the best reward. o.O *shrug*
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Thanks for all the fish.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Just a quick question in regards to invocation and AD. Is there a bonus to the AD bonus for VIP? (If it's already in here I missed it, my apologies if thats the case)
Nobody has yet troubled themselves to answer this question.
I thought Robert already answered this, but yes, it works with both 2x AD to consume the bonus RAD faster and VIP with to grant extra bonus RAD.
Nope, that was one question he missed, thanks.
But I have to bug you still, that means you get more RAD when you actually use your bonus? So you salvage a rare ring for 2k (grumple), and the bonus grants an additional 1k, but you also get 10% on both values and so your ring was worth 3.3k?
Edit: my original question was clumsy and I think also founded on misunderstanding.
Comments
The bigger AD rewards were moved to the end of the cycle to make them take more time to obtain, which was sensible enough when the AD was an immediate payout. But with it being a bonus that you have to work for, so to speak, you should get the main bonus right away so that you can go do some stuff and actually see the bonus working for you. If the intent is to get more AD into the hands of your active players, it needs to be accessible to people who actually spend their time running content and not locked behind a three-hour delay from first login.
Ideally, I'd still rather see any kind of AD income not married to invoking at all anymore, BUT I figure tweaking these values into the reverse of the order they're in now might be something you guys could still squeeze in. Please!
@rgutscheradev
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forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/comment/12855997/#Comment_12855997
@Panderus and @rgutscheradev, can you comment on these 2 analysis done by a player about the new invoke system please?
Based on this info @checkmatein3 gives here the new invoke system is going to by miserable to work with. I don't have time to do 2.5 hours of invoking on characters i want to play each day BEFORE i can even play lest i waste the raw AD i gain each day. having to pass out salvage to each toon and micro manage how much they salvage each day is such a horrible annoyance. The only people who won't care about this are bots. Bots do stuff like this really easily, that is why automation is so nice.
You should just scrap the multi- invokes a day, or reduce to 2. the first gets you everything (keep it as a bonus to raw AD like the new system so that bots have to actually go earn the salvage still), the second you have to wait the full timer of 4 hours to get the second celestial coin. yes, bots can easily accomplish this, but they are doing it ANYWAY. Save your servers stress and make the lives of your players less stressful as well.
-EDIT- I i understand the invoking system won't see a rework anytime soon, but perhaps you could flatten out the AD bonus gained per invoke so as to make it a bit more rewarding in the first set on invokes. or flatten the bonus and make it over 4 invokes instead of 5. simplifying this is important for retaining sanity
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Salvage values: They may not have been “consistent”, but they were not a problem.
“ In practice, the biggest effect of these changes is that some rings have gone down in value and some Elemental/Protector seal gear has gone up.”
The biggest effect?? The BIGGEST effect is that those “some rings” that “have gone down in value” is at least 80% of our salvage!
There are only two ways to make AD in this game, by spending our time to get salvageable items or our money. What you are doing here is lowering the value of our time. Instead of rewarding us for playing your game, you are insulting us. Blue rings (Small T1, +1, +2) make up at least 80% of the drops for our salvage and it is going to be reduced by 33% starting mod 10.
These are the salvage values I think will be fair considering the current in-game economy:
Small T1: 3000
Medium T1: 4000
Large T1: 5000
Small T2: 4000
Medium T2: 5000
Large T2: 6000
+1, +2 rings: 3000
+3, +4 rings: 4000
The point is, the blue gear should keep their current value and have only the purple gear be adjusted in value.The “rare” value items (blue gear) does not have to drop in salvage value to make the “epic” items (purple gear) look more important. The blue +1 and +2 rings contain the mass potential in drops and are what is keeping the current economy afloat when it comes to playing the newer content. This includes CN, you can go through the whole dungeon and end up getting only a blue ring at the end. Maybe there should be and epic CN to at least eliminate that problem.
Everything in-game keeps getting expensive and will keep doing so as the rate of botting diminishes. So cutting down on the larger source of income will cause a problem that will continue to grow in weight as the developers progress in shutting down the botters. I am sure the game developers have worked hard on finding ways to make AD farming easier for actual players. The change in salvage values, currently available in preview, is a huge step backwards. Please do not diminish the value of our time, let the players who don’t always have the extra income to throw into the game feel appreciated too.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
Best example are the dragonflight items. Someone who bows will buy strongbox keys and suddenly you get up to 3x the amount of fangs. kill 1 dragon = 0 fangs for ftp but 2 fangs for paying people. Kill 2 dragons and its 1 vs 3. Meaning it will at least take twice as long to get a dragonflight item.
Same applies with high level enchants. How can a ftp generate the many millions of AD you need for those? You can play the market ofc and do your normal stuff in game. But when selling ZEN you all of a sudden have a shitton of AD.
While this story might seem as if I disagree with the high entrypoint, I dont. Its good to have something for when you are highly geared and it gives something to aspire too.
Secondly, in pugruns you will always get kicked out if you aren't at least 200-400 above the itemlevel, so any 3.1k person will have a hard time until at least 3.4/3.5k
PS: yesterday had a CN run with a 2.0k ilvl and a 3.5k ilvl pally tank. Guess who had to tank the first boss? Guess who kept instantly dieing at Orcus?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
as far as invoking goes.. dunno why you dont have a timer that just counts down while the player is logged in.. stay logged in for 4 hrs, get the best reward. o.O *shrug*
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
But I have to bug you still, that means you get more RAD when you actually use your bonus? So you salvage a rare ring for 2k (grumple), and the bonus grants an additional 1k, but you also get 10% on both values and so your ring was worth 3.3k?
Edit: my original question was clumsy and I think also founded on misunderstanding.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia