I do not undrstand this either. In the first year, they took a lot of pride in being the fastest expanding MMO, which brought a lot of new players. It should probably also be known as one of the fastest devolving games. We have lost so much. Not only the original dungeons, but also zones entire expansions like Gauntlegrym, which had a zone and two dungeons attached to it. If we start considering what has been lost over time, how much are we left with? Certainly we are still on the + side. But if we are now facing mod 10, and subract the losses, what mod number would it then be?
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
I am slightly confused. I see the self-proclaimed "top players" saying they want more challenge, and yet my dungeon dailies are plagued with aforementioned overpowered players who basically murder everything within seconds, making said runs extremely boring.
Shouldn't you people be running more difficult instances? If you claim you want challenges, why do you keep running low level content with people who have 1/3 of your gear? How do you expect them to get any better if you join their runs and clear everything for them? Also, you people claim the game is too easy, and yet you're more than likely the kind that demands a ilvl rating 1,000 higher than what is required for dungeons. Maybe if you didn't strive to reach easy-mode parties for everything then it wouldn't be so easy?
I do apologize if I sound a little curt, but I am genuinely confused by what I see on these boards and what you people do in game.
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wurmschwanzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 35Arc User
I don't know if you,@isab meant me or my guild with
I am slightly confused. I see the self-proclaimed "top players" saying they want more challenge
but I want to make it clear: We are not top-players. Most of us aren't top geared. We have good gear, but not the best. We don't have the best mounts nor do we have best insignias or something like this.
Shouldn't you people be running more difficult instances? If you claim you want challenges, why do you keep running low level content with people who have 1/3 of your gear?
I don't really get it, do you mean we should run anything harder than CN? There is nothing which is harder than this. We did eGWD some day ago with just our chestarmor and mainhand and we could have done it but two of us didn't have time so we are going to do this soon again.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you and you didn't mean me or the original post?
I suspect, their complaint isnt about CN or even T2 dungeons. But at high geared players running the 3 person leveling content for quick AD.
None of the current content is challenging for an average group in my alliance (meaning a group I form by typing "LF4M (insert any dungeon or skirmish)" in alliance chat. I can recall a single run of eCC where I had to change from my buff-oriented DC to my healing-oriented OP to beat the boss. Other than that, we just marched on through with minimal coordination, minimal challenge.
I am slightly confused. I see the self-proclaimed "top players" saying they want more challenge, and yet my dungeon dailies are plagued with aforementioned overpowered players who basically murder everything within seconds, making said runs extremely boring.
Shouldn't you people be running more difficult instances? If you claim you want challenges, why do you keep running low level content with people who have 1/3 of your gear? How do you expect them to get any better if you join their runs and clear everything for them? Also, you people claim the game is too easy, and yet you're more than likely the kind that demands a ilvl rating 1,000 higher than what is required for dungeons. Maybe if you didn't strive to reach easy-mode parties for everything then it wouldn't be so easy?
I do apologize if I sound a little curt, but I am genuinely confused by what I see on these boards and what you people do in game.
What should ppl do in your opinion. Stick to CN and T2 dungeons, so newer players can either whipe or learn on their own in lower level dungeons?
Here are a few fun facts. T2 dungeons have zero desirable rewards for geared players and have a low AD/time ratio. CN is boring as hell after a few hundred runs. The fastest way to farm ADs by playing the game is running low lvl dungeons for salvageable loot and the AD reward.
If you run a dungeon for maybe the 1000th time, you grind it. There is not so much fun. You can either get a decent group and be done in a few minutes or carry a bunch of low gear PuGs and be done in 30 minutes. While the 2nd alternative is sometimes fun, if you want to be done with a dungeon in a short period of time, you do it with a 'overgeared' party.
Why do most ppl play? For fun and for progression. If the new 'difficult' dungeon nets no desirable rewards, ppl will run it a few times, until they have beaten it and return to ELOL for the easy grind, bc grinding a difficult with no rewards is less fun then grinding a easy dungeon with more rewards.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
What should ppl do in your opinion. Stick to CN and T2 dungeons, so newer players can either wipe or learn on their own in lower level dungeons?
imo, yes. It is good etiquette.
High IL's can do whatever they like in premades or guild runs, but if they pug it with ppl 2-3K il lower than them then they should show some consideration and at least pretend a little bit to let the rest of the party have some input (i.e. let them get a hit or two in, maybe a debuff, perhaps let a tank get some aggro before it is ripped from his newbie hands, hell even let a budding DC heal someone). Its no fun for these guys if they are just tagging along behind doing nothing other than picking stuff up after the uber DPS annihilates everything.
Some time ago I joined PUG group in Cloack Tower because it's a really cool dungeon and I wanted to revisit it again. There are a LOT of demons running around, it was nice to shew up on some orcs .
Obviously I was overgeared compared to other party members. I ran ahead (like an idiot) and kill stuff in a flash. Than one of the players PM'ed me saying that they wanted to explore with his partner and it's their 1st time here.
Little to say I felt like a bigger idiot and immediately slowed down and went back to show them where the 2nd boss was (in a small pond under the stairs - can easily be skipped), it was a fun run and at the end I've apologized about what happened at the start. So I do agree with @lantern22 sometimes it's a fast AD run with people that do not care, and sometimes running ahead may be taken as a stupid thing to do. All depends on what party you're in.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
What should ppl do in your opinion. Stick to CN and T2 dungeons, so newer players can either wipe or learn on their own in lower level dungeons?
imo, yes. It is good etiquette.
High IL's can do whatever they like in premades or guild runs, but if they pug it with ppl 2-3K il lower than them then they should show some consideration and at least pretend a little bit to let the rest of the party have some input (i.e. let them get a hit or two in, maybe a debuff, perhaps let a tank get some aggro before it is ripped from his newbie hands, hell even let a budding DC heal someone). Its no fun for these guys if they are just tagging along behind doing nothing other than picking stuff up after the uber DPS annihilates everything.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
Sometimes, I will make a premade party of 4 and deliberately queue for a 5th. We will then try to engage the 5th player and see whether they are willing to talk, instead of being a silent spectator. We try to be friendly etc, but often, they remain dead quiet and only the 4 of us are discussing stuff. That 5th person often doesn't do much and often, the only communication they give is, "wtf" when the boss dies quickly. None of them ask how they can improve and none of them are willing to accept advice. They would rather remain silent, than ask questions and try to improve. I remember when I was new to the game. The very first mail I sent to somebody else was, "Would you mind explaining to me what you did" when I was impressed with how much better their CW performed than mine. They didn't mind explaining to me and I learned quite a bit in the process. That is what random queues are missing these days, people who are willing to engage.
Tank in Orcus' face is all well and good until he has to drop his shield and run. Oh, wait, GFs CAN'T run...
That's not true...
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
What should ppl do in your opinion. Stick to CN and T2 dungeons, so newer players can either wipe or learn on their own in lower level dungeons?
imo, yes. It is good etiquette.
High IL's can do whatever they like in premades or guild runs, but if they pug it with ppl 2-3K il lower than them then they should show some consideration and at least pretend a little bit to let the rest of the party have some input (i.e. let them get a hit or two in, maybe a debuff, perhaps let a tank get some aggro before it is ripped from his newbie hands, hell even let a budding DC heal someone). Its no fun for these guys if they are just tagging along behind doing nothing other than picking stuff up after the uber DPS annihilates everything.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
Sometimes, I will make a premade party of 4 and deliberately queue for a 5th. We will then try to engage the 5th player and see whether they are willing to talk, instead of being a silent spectator. We try to be friendly etc, but often, they remain dead quiet and only the 4 of us are discussing stuff. That 5th person often doesn't do much and often, the only communication they give is, "wtf" when the boss dies quickly. None of them ask how they can improve and none of them are willing to accept advice. They would rather remain silent, than ask questions and try to improve. I remember when I was new to the game. The very first mail I sent to somebody else was, "Would you mind explaining to me what you did" when I was impressed with how much better their CW performed than mine. They didn't mind explaining to me and I learned quite a bit in the process. That is what random queues are missing these days, people who are willing to engage.
I would find that kind of group EXTREMELY uncomfortable. The double standards are amazing, we have one group that cant even be bothered to slow down for a few moments to let people even play beyond being auto-looters. Yet they feel the other group is willing to participate in random "lets gang up on you and tell you how much you suck" groups.
Its one thing to offer advice when asked, but to form groups just to ambush them with it, expecting them to be responsive to it. Is both rude and foolish.
What should ppl do in your opinion. Stick to CN and T2 dungeons, so newer players can either wipe or learn on their own in lower level dungeons?
imo, yes. It is good etiquette.
High IL's can do whatever they like in premades or guild runs, but if they pug it with ppl 2-3K il lower than them then they should show some consideration and at least pretend a little bit to let the rest of the party have some input (i.e. let them get a hit or two in, maybe a debuff, perhaps let a tank get some aggro before it is ripped from his newbie hands, hell even let a budding DC heal someone). Its no fun for these guys if they are just tagging along behind doing nothing other than picking stuff up after the uber DPS annihilates everything.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
I love this 'bad geared players' and 'nice low geared players' posts. First of all, etiquette goes both ways.
I read rant post about geared players running premade, excluding low geared players. I read rant posts about geared players 'taking over' 'easy' dungeons. Get it together. We are not your slaves, you can summon as needed and send back in the cellar, if not. Decide what is etiquette, in your opinion.
There are low level and high level geared idiots. Where is the etiquette, if ppl que for dungeons with a group, that HAS to fail, if they dont get an ueber player to carry them. Now, when I run with such a group, I have to take that into account or I die. There are boss mechanics, like VT, that need some cooperation. I run PuG, so I dont try to command the other players, but after 3-5 whipes I can see, that this is a waste and I RECOMMEND changes, for the benefit of the group. There are 3 reactions, you get ignored (60%), you get insulted and/or kicked (30%) or they take your advice and you get it done with this group (10%).
Of these 10% most of the players are thankful for your advice and pm you later asking for tips for their class. One time I played with a newer player, who included his friends, so we ended up in a 4 ppl party and I answered their questions, to the best of my knowledge.
How is that for etiquette, I dont tell you how you have to play and you dont try to tell me, how I have to play? We stay polite and if you dont like your group, you can leave and if I dont like the group, I can leave.
This is a game and it should be fun for everyone, this includes you and me both.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
I would find that kind of group EXTREMELY uncomfortable. The double standards are amazing, we have one group that cant even be bothered to slow down for a few moments to let people even play beyond being auto-looters. Yet they feel the other group is willing to participate in random "lets gang up on you and tell you how much you suck" groups.
That's what you read from his post? I read that he is taking time to reach out to players in an inclusive way, to offer to help them learn to play their class well in a group context.
This is a MMO, not Skyrim. People that communicate and work as a team will be better. They should be better. Anyone that finds friendly communication in an MMO "EXTREMELY uncomfortable" shouldn't be the gold standard the developers build content for. They are not engaging in "multiplayer" gaming at all. The other four people in their PUG team may as well be AI-controlled NPCs in a single-player game.
Of course there should be room for the lone wolf player that just wants to queue up for a dungeon and let off a little steam. That solitary player, unwilling to communicate, in thoroughly average gear, should have absolutely no expectation of winning current end-game content with 4 other, random solo players. MMO end-game content should take teamwork. That's a core value proposition of a Massively Multiplayer Online game.
I don't know how it is these days. But I remember from my gearing up days. Half the time I entered a dungeon, one or two people instantly quit when they saw low geared people in the party. And if they didn't leave, they were yelling at you because you didn't lie down and die at the right spot. If it was the people that I met in game those days that attracted me to the game I would have quit long time ago. It was a rude and unbearable armosphere.
I would not have gotten anywhere in this game if I didn't find a guild with some nice people that I got along with. Some of them are still some of my best friends ingame today, three years later. Even tho we split up and went to different guilds for different reasons.
If you have a problem with how other people are doing the dungeons, maybe you should try to do some guild shopping and find a place with likeminded people, so that you can do the dungeons your way.
Still I got to agree on what is said above. Experienced people should be helpful, and if possible a bit polite rather then right out rude. And if someone is trying to give you an advice, you should at least try to consider if maybe there is some truth to what they are saying. I guess the key word here is communication, which can be real hard if you are not good at it.
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
I don't know about you guys here perceive what groups in dungeon do, but:
1. If I am to be grouped up with four 3k+ players, I just let them do their job. It's not like me joining in fights would make any difference. Just enjoy the free meal. 2. If I grouped up with 2k+ players, I just peel ranged classes and assume position where I'm needed. It's all about playing within a defensive line here and NEVER let it breached by mobs. People didn't realize this and basically overextends every single time and scattered like ants.
you are genuine the best example how cancerous the world has become. Seriously, if you are too **** to press some buttons in an order and to read trough several sites of guilds/techniques play single-player games on the easiest level. My old guild...
If you don't use any sort of communication ingame, play single-player games or leave the game. This game was concepted to interact with millions of other players, that's the reason its called MMORPG. I don't know from which planet you come from, but first make sure you realize which game you download and start to play.
Another good example how cancerous this world has became. Strike #2
The people you're responded to are public queue players. The only proof of your post is promoting elitism and further segregation of veterans and newbs.
People, in general, don't like being told what to do by complete strangers. And they have their set ways and routines. I don't even bother saying anything in pugs anymore because there will be either no response, or an unpleasant response. I don't mind carrying lesser geared players as long as the run can be completed in a reasonable time. But if I see a number of stupid actions or suboptional game play in the first fight or two, I just cut my losses early and leave.
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
I would find that kind of group EXTREMELY uncomfortable. The double standards are amazing, we have one group that cant even be bothered to slow down for a few moments to let people even play beyond being auto-looters. Yet they feel the other group is willing to participate in random "lets gang up on you and tell you how much you suck" groups.
Its one thing to offer advice when asked, but to form groups just to ambush them with it, expecting them to be responsive to it. Is both rude and foolish.
You have a weird way of perceiving things. @thefabricant was talking about the exact opposite, he is just trying to be social. I happened to be part of one his groups when this happened and I can confirm and agree with what @thefabricant said. It was a friendly initiation. You on the other hand seem to be part of a problem that exists in many parts of life. Bitterness.
Yea who can imagine feeling odd when you find out the queue put you in as the 5th wheel in a 4 person premade. I have no issue being friendly if it was just social. But its not. Its like being the token nerd invited to the frat party. Its either done to embarrass or to stroke egos.
People, in general, don't like being told what to do by complete strangers. And they have their set ways and routines. I don't even bother saying anything in pugs anymore because there will be either no response, or an unpleasant response. I don't mind carrying lesser geared players as long as the run can be completed in a reasonable time. But if I see a number of stupid actions or suboptional game play in the first fight or two, I just cut my losses early and leave.
Why not ask them to hold the door? It should work.
kellemaniac wrote: > [...] Seriously, if you are too [lazy] [...] to read trough > several sites of guids/techniques [advice...]
Yes, I am. Especially: several. And that's not going to change. If you enjoy teaching yourselves complex entertainment configurations, all nice and sweet. But assuming every customer will or shall enjoy this too, is flawed.
sockmunkey wrote: > [Buffs are] also the main source of the player devide. Those who can > maximize buffs stomp the content. Those who cant, or are unable too, fail.
I guess so. I gathered just little experience on what is termed end content. Epic Skirmishes like PoM did turn out interesting with a 25.k IL PuG party. As soon as a single 4k (usually GWF) popped up (~buffed~), there was little point in continuing to hit any keys and buttons. Epic dungeons (I tried: eToS, Valindras from DR, Malabogs) for PuG parties, I personally found a little bit too demanding.
Conclusion for me: The character needs to improve stats. Improving stats from all epics and R7/R8 and 2.5 IL to something more is, my opinion, extremely tedious. I tend to not enjoy that at all. For example, I made black ice boots for my main character, and every time I consider making more BI, I feel ... meh, oh no, this will take ages. So I am stuck there, the epic dungeon content, costing development time, will not open up. To me.
I am still not complaing, there is enough there in NWO I consider worth exploring, be it other interesting classes or more foundries, or new stories and maps coming.
On topic: Something I can think of, for a suggestion: I'd prefer a bit more spread in dungeon difficulty. Something like: Queueables A+B are recommended for 2k IL, and C+D for 2.3k IL, and E+F for 2.6k, ..., and finally X,Y,Z for maximum IL or premades with very special setups and/or high entertainment theory crafting.
Yes, I am. Especially: several. And that's not going to change. If you enjoy teaching yourselves complex entertainment configurations, all nice and sweet. But assuming every customer will or shall enjoy this too, is flawed.
I guess so. I gathered just little experience on what is termed end content. Epic Skirmishes like PoM did turn out interesting with a 2.5k IL PuG party. As soon as a single 4k (usually GWF) popped up (~buffed~), there was little point in continuing to hit any keys and buttons. Epic dungeons (I tried: eToS, Valindras from DR, Malabogs) for PuG parties, I personally found a little bit too demanding.
For skirmishes, agreed. For epic dungeons you listed, I think "a little bit" is underestimated. It'll demand more from every player in the 2.5k IL team. For that single 4k, treat it as free meal.
Conclusion for me: The character needs to improve stats. Improving stats from all epics and R7/R8 and 2.5 IL to something more is, my opinion, extremely tedious. I tend to not enjoy that at all. For example, I made black ice boots for my main character, and every time I consider making more BI, I feel ... meh, oh no, this will take ages. So I am stuck there, the epic dungeon content, costing development time, will not open up. To me.
R7/R8 is the first step to put your foot in the neutral ground of grinding. It wasn't meant to be enjoyed. Drowcraft would be a better example here. ToDG4life.
Comments
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
Shouldn't you people be running more difficult instances? If you claim you want challenges, why do you keep running low level content with people who have 1/3 of your gear? How do you expect them to get any better if you join their runs and clear everything for them? Also, you people claim the game is too easy, and yet you're more than likely the kind that demands a ilvl rating 1,000 higher than what is required for dungeons. Maybe if you didn't strive to reach easy-mode parties for everything then it wouldn't be so easy?
I do apologize if I sound a little curt, but I am genuinely confused by what I see on these boards and what you people do in game.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you and you didn't mean me or the original post?
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Here are a few fun facts. T2 dungeons have zero desirable rewards for geared players and have a low AD/time ratio. CN is boring as hell after a few hundred runs. The fastest way to farm ADs by playing the game is running low lvl dungeons for salvageable loot and the AD reward.
If you run a dungeon for maybe the 1000th time, you grind it. There is not so much fun. You can either get a decent group and be done in a few minutes or carry a bunch of low gear PuGs and be done in 30 minutes. While the 2nd alternative is sometimes fun, if you want to be done with a dungeon in a short period of time, you do it with a 'overgeared' party.
Why do most ppl play? For fun and for progression. If the new 'difficult' dungeon nets no desirable rewards, ppl will run it a few times, until they have beaten it and return to ELOL for the easy grind, bc grinding a difficult with no rewards is less fun then grinding a easy dungeon with more rewards.
High IL's can do whatever they like in premades or guild runs, but if they pug it with ppl 2-3K il lower than them then they should show some consideration and at least pretend a little bit to let the rest of the party have some input (i.e. let them get a hit or two in, maybe a debuff, perhaps let a tank get some aggro before it is ripped from his newbie hands, hell even let a budding DC heal someone). Its no fun for these guys if they are just tagging along behind doing nothing other than picking stuff up after the uber DPS annihilates everything.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
There are a LOT of demons running around, it was nice to shew up on some orcs
Obviously I was overgeared compared to other party members. I ran ahead (like an idiot) and kill stuff in a flash.
Than one of the players PM'ed me saying that they wanted to explore with his partner and it's their 1st time here.
Little to say I felt like a bigger idiot
So I do agree with @lantern22 sometimes it's a fast AD run with people that do not care, and sometimes running ahead may be taken as a stupid thing to do. All depends on what party you're in.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Its one thing to offer advice when asked, but to form groups just to ambush them with it, expecting them to be responsive to it. Is both rude and foolish.
I read rant post about geared players running premade, excluding low geared players. I read rant posts about geared players 'taking over' 'easy' dungeons. Get it together. We are not your slaves, you can summon as needed and send back in the cellar, if not. Decide what is etiquette, in your opinion.
There are low level and high level geared idiots. Where is the etiquette, if ppl que for dungeons with a group, that HAS to fail, if they dont get an ueber player to carry them. Now, when I run with such a group, I have to take that into account or I die. There are boss mechanics, like VT, that need some cooperation. I run PuG, so I dont try to command the other players, but after 3-5 whipes I can see, that this is a waste and I RECOMMEND changes, for the benefit of the group. There are 3 reactions, you get ignored (60%), you get insulted and/or kicked (30%) or they take your advice and you get it done with this group (10%).
Of these 10% most of the players are thankful for your advice and pm you later asking for tips for their class. One time I played with a newer player, who included his friends, so we ended up in a 4 ppl party and I answered their questions, to the best of my knowledge.
How is that for etiquette, I dont tell you how you have to play and you dont try to tell me, how I have to play? We stay polite and if you dont like your group, you can leave and if I dont like the group, I can leave.
This is a game and it should be fun for everyone, this includes you and me both.
This is a MMO, not Skyrim. People that communicate and work as a team will be better. They should be better. Anyone that finds friendly communication in an MMO "EXTREMELY uncomfortable" shouldn't be the gold standard the developers build content for. They are not engaging in "multiplayer" gaming at all. The other four people in their PUG team may as well be AI-controlled NPCs in a single-player game.
Of course there should be room for the lone wolf player that just wants to queue up for a dungeon and let off a little steam. That solitary player, unwilling to communicate, in thoroughly average gear, should have absolutely no expectation of winning current end-game content with 4 other, random solo players. MMO end-game content should take teamwork. That's a core value proposition of a Massively Multiplayer Online game.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I would not have gotten anywhere in this game if I didn't find a guild with some nice people that I got along with. Some of them are still some of my best friends ingame today, three years later. Even tho we split up and went to different guilds for different reasons.
If you have a problem with how other people are doing the dungeons, maybe you should try to do some guild shopping and find a place with likeminded people, so that you can do the dungeons your way.
Still I got to agree on what is said above. Experienced people should be helpful, and if possible a bit polite rather then right out rude. And if someone is trying to give you an advice, you should at least try to consider if maybe there is some truth to what they are saying. I guess the key word here is communication, which can be real hard if you are not good at it.
Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.
The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
1. If I am to be grouped up with four 3k+ players, I just let them do their job. It's not like me joining in fights would make any difference. Just enjoy the free meal.
2. If I grouped up with 2k+ players, I just peel ranged classes and assume position where I'm needed. It's all about playing within a defensive line here and NEVER let it breached by mobs. People didn't realize this and basically overextends every single time and scattered like ants.
> [...] Seriously, if you are too [lazy] [...] to read trough
> several sites of guids/techniques [advice...]
Yes, I am. Especially: several. And that's not going to change.
If you enjoy teaching yourselves complex entertainment configurations, all nice and sweet. But assuming every customer will or shall enjoy this too, is flawed.
sockmunkey wrote:
> [Buffs are] also the main source of the player devide. Those who can
> maximize buffs stomp the content. Those who cant, or are unable too, fail.
I guess so. I gathered just little experience on what is termed end content. Epic Skirmishes like PoM did turn out interesting with a 25.k IL PuG party. As soon as a single 4k (usually GWF) popped up (~buffed~), there was little point in continuing to hit any keys and buttons. Epic dungeons (I tried: eToS, Valindras from DR, Malabogs) for PuG parties, I personally found a little bit too demanding.
Conclusion for me: The character needs to improve stats. Improving stats from all epics and R7/R8 and 2.5 IL to something more is, my opinion, extremely tedious. I tend to not enjoy that at all. For example, I made black ice boots for my main character, and every time I consider making more BI, I feel ... meh, oh no, this will take ages. So I am stuck there, the epic dungeon content, costing development time, will not open up. To me.
I am still not complaing, there is enough there in NWO I consider worth exploring, be it other interesting classes or more foundries, or new stories and maps coming.
On topic: Something I can think of, for a suggestion: I'd prefer a bit more spread in dungeon difficulty. Something like: Queueables A+B are recommended for 2k IL, and C+D for 2.3k IL, and E+F for 2.6k, ..., and finally X,Y,Z for maximum IL or premades with very special setups and/or high entertainment theory crafting.
For epic dungeons you listed, I think "a little bit" is underestimated. It'll demand more from every player in the 2.5k IL team.
For that single 4k, treat it as free meal. R7/R8 is the first step to put your foot in the neutral ground of grinding. It wasn't meant to be enjoyed.
Drowcraft would be a better example here. ToDG4life.