Note to Devs. Invokings daily no longer the Motivation.

wylonus

it been nearly a year since i last seen any c-wards appeared in coffers. it is purely way too mean and it is indeed a point of pure torture and it really kills any hopes of getting one if pulled once a month if lucky.

that nerf goes way too deep and that RNG isnt very nice, any items coming from coffers are should be bounded to character/account.

coffers really need lot of new loves, now they are most hated item in the game and way too low to be useful, rank 3 doesnt fill up rank 10 when it need almost a million points instead of tiniest drop of 45 pts or less which it doesnt go anywhere in progress.

also, i hadnt seen P-wards either in months.

you devs are doing wrong by fighting the "bots", solution would be that no one want them from the bots if it became more accessable to players from invoking for coffers just as enough, and also lower the zen prices.
it would make players no longer wants bot sellers' items.

or make new way for "epic chest rewards" as random chances to get one, or if available if you add new challenging "hardcore" epic dungeons. those would be bounded to accounts.

wildfirede

Coffers are fine - there are people around with 200+ inoking chars so i understand why the chance is low...

but there should be another way to get wards for free besides invokation like t.bar store for example

karakla1

wylonus said:

it been nearly a year since i last seen any c-wards appeared in coffers

You are basically forced to buy them because they drop nowhere ingame. To hope the Staff will change his opinion about this, is like hoping that it will snow in hell.

Mod edited out flame.

beckylunatic

karakla1 said:

You are basically forced to buy them because they drop nowhere ingame.

I've made 8 trans enchants, and a bunch more pure/perfects without ever having bought a ward that originated in the Zen store. I don't have 200 invoke characters (my one account sits at 21 slots occupied). I bought some wards with t-bars on an as-needed basis when they were account-bound.

Patience pays off. Starting from normal enchants from lockboxes (bought when their market price bottoms out) reduces the cost involved enormously.

If you need to have the latest greatest thing as soon as it comes out, pay up.

darkstarrfoff

Yep, same as becky here (number of enchants is lower but I haven't played nearly as long). I get coal wards decently often and when I don't I end up with a half dozen or more p-wards. 8 chars that I invoke on.​​

wildfirede

beckylunatic said:

karakla1 said:

You are basically forced to buy them because they drop nowhere ingame.

I've made 8 trans enchants, and a bunch more pure/perfects without ever having bought a ward that originated in the Zen store. I don't have 200 invoke characters (my one account sits at 21 slots occupied). I bought some wards with t-bars on an as-needed basis when they were account-bound.

Patience pays off. Starting from normal enchants from lockboxes (bought when their market price bottoms out) reduces the cost involved enormously.

If you need to have the latest greatest thing as soon as it comes out, pay up.

Yet i would not classify you as a 'normal' player - please it's not an insult - i myself am running with 53 invoking characters and consider that to not be TWIMTBP (still with 53 invoking characters i spend some money on c.wards @ 50% off) - now consider that poor kiddo that is rolling 2 chars maybe a third - and gets a c.ward once in a blue moon and maybe 20-40k AD a day if he plays on that day - now with the cost to refine the enchant, with the cost of the c.wards - transcendant is a dream for those people

it's not the Narnia Lion mount we are talking about (that imo is the way to make money - make something fancy and sell it via boxes or zen store - don't relly on core game mechanics) it's a enchant that is ingame for more than a year

karakla1

beckylunatic said:

I bought some wards with t-bars on an as-needed basis when they were account-bound.

Nice for you. New players have currently not the luck to buy them with T-Bars.

But wouldn't change the fact that it is pay2win because even in the "old times" you was in need to open about 10+ lockboxes. Which are 1.125 Zen. Which are 562.500 AD. Normally you would get VIP which makes it more efficient but that costs also about 500.000 AD. Half your maximum income as a freeplayer.

And only to remind you, that was with the best T-Bar to Coalward conversion rate. And the Coalwards still didn't drop in the game and where never available via gameplay. The only time we could EARN them was with the last Jubilee Event and also only with a drop rate of 0.1%

wylonus

wait, there isnt any wards sold in T-bar, they were taken out many months ago.

jpalo316

I'm only invoking on 4 characters and I usually find myself getting 2 or 3 coal wards every 2x RP event from the coffers I saved up in-between. Usually open 24-32 coffers every RP event. Maybe not the best drop rate, but certainly not the worst in this game, either.

adinosii

I have 16 characters invoking. Combined, they get enough C.wards for my main character.

karakla1

adinosii said:

I have 16 characters invoking. Combined, they get enough C.wards for my main character.

Oh yeah a great idea to evade a big problem Neverwinter has and could be also seen as violation of the "TOS" or "Fairplay"-Thingy which lead to the ban of a few players in the past.

Sorry guys, but the invoking mechanic was implemented as a little "nice to have" feature for active players, not to rely on it for important KEY ITEMS.

deathbeez

I liked the old invocation better. Once per day; Done.
Not bags constantly getting filled with coupons.

I've not seen a coal in year with 8 chars.

beckylunatic

karakla1 said:

Nice for you. New players have currently not the luck to buy them with T-Bars.

My point was that this is very few of the wards I've used in total, and none of them at all during that window when they were cheaper and unbound. They were supplemental, but I could have done without them too.

karakla1

beckylunatic said:

karakla1 said:

Nice for you. New players have currently not the luck to buy them with T-Bars.

My point was that this is very few of the wards I've used in total, and none of them at all during that window when they were cheaper and unbound. They were supplemental, but I could have done without them too.

You stated that you own 8 Trans enchantments. That are 136 Coalescent Wards = 136.000 Zen = 1.277 Dollar = 68.000.000 AD = 1.888 days (=5+ years)

Even with reduced costs if you upgraded them from a higher rank, the mass you upgraded to Transcendend is astonishing.

hadestemplar

wylonus said:

it been nearly a year since i last seen any c-wards appeared in coffers. it is purely way too mean and it is indeed a point of pure torture and it really kills any hopes of getting one if pulled once a month if lucky.

that nerf goes way too deep and that RNG isnt very nice, any items coming from coffers are should be bounded to character/account.

coffers really need lot of new loves, now they are most hated item in the game and way too low to be useful, rank 3 doesnt fill up rank 10 when it need almost a million points instead of tiniest drop of 45 pts or less which it doesnt go anywhere in progress.

also, i hadnt seen P-wards either in months.

you devs are doing wrong by fighting the "bots", solution would be that no one want them from the bots if it became more accessable to players from invoking for coffers just as enough, and also lower the zen prices.
it would make players no longer wants bot sellers' items.

or make new way for "epic chest rewards" as random chances to get one, or if available if you add new challenging "hardcore" epic dungeons. those would be bounded to accounts.

I always thought that invocation are just for extra mini reward. Not grand project for grinding or act as extra adventurers scenario/campaing.

kvet

I have 19 toon that I invoke usually 5 times a week each. Until the week before this last 2x RP, in hadn't seen a new coal ward (other than the free one they gave everyone a while back) for easily 6 months. However, this last 2x... I pulled two out of the boxes in one day.

lirithiel

The invoking system was changed to keep you playing for longer on one character but a PITA for players with multiple characters. I agree that the older invoking system was better and didn't fill you bags with needless fluff.

jaysun1977

wildfirede said:

Coffers are fine - there are people around with 200+ inoking chars so i understand why the chance is low...



but there should be another way to get wards for free besides invokation like t.bar store for example

You don't balance a game around adege cases, you abalnce around intended targets. Unless, of course, you aim to imply that the intended target is for players to have 200 characters for the system to work in which case I call "Kittens!"

The current system is anything but rewarding. invoking is a joke for anyone without a charcter army, which usually leads to leadership armies as well, because if I already have 200 characters, why not profit even more from them?

Balaning aroudn that is exactly the reason why teh game keeps getting worse and worse and less rewarding by the minute. The idiotic idea to fight bots leaves regular players in the dust.

And the problems isn't just coffer drop rates, it's drop rates in general, especially if combined with the fact that you can't trade most interesting items on the AH anymore.

It is clear to anyone with a lick of sense and even a superficial knowlede of psychology and game design that whoever is currently responsible for the number crunching at cryptic has no fluffy clue what they are doing. And it is costing them customers. And it will cost them the game in the long run until only a tiny bunch of diehard fans even remain, unable to field dungeon groups and or PvP matches due to an insufficient player pool.

I may sound salty and I am, because it's apologetic "arguments" like yours that let them keep getting away with this.

Evading the filter may result in a moderator changing your swear words to more playful ones.

oliboyph

And yet, we are all still here. Invoking is not meant to be super rewarding but having 2 characters grinding at full capacity everyday will eventally get you that enchants that you need. The idea is to be patient.

If you really want to take advantage of coffers, open them 50 pcs at a time.

I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to work for it.

lirithiel

oliboyph said:

I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to pay for it.

FIFY.

silence1x

lirithiel said:

oliboyph said:

I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to pay for it.

FIFY.

ROFL.

We also have to remember that, much like other things, invocation was changed in response to . . . HAMSTER, now I can't remember. Too many changes that affect us alt-aholics since Mod 4/5/6. Maybe it was due to bots?

beckylunatic

silence1x said:

lirithiel said:

oliboyph said:

I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to pay for it.

FIFY.

ROFL.

We also have to remember that, much like other things, invocation was changed in response to . . . ****, now I can't remember. Too many changes that affect us alt-aholics since Mod 4/5/6. Maybe it was due to bots?

Well, they didn't want people selling their unbound wards from coffers for 100k AD a pop anymore (because then why would anyone buy one with Zen?), but when they reworked that system to make the invoke rewards BoA, they did reduce the drop rate too. We have pretty solid statistics to back that. And as much as people insist that the drops in the current coffers have been nerfed, we don't have statistics to show it.

plasticbat

karakla1 said:

adinosii said:

I have 16 characters invoking. Combined, they get enough C.wards for my main character.

Oh yeah a great idea to evade a big problem Neverwinter has and could be also seen as violation of the "TOS" or "Fairplay"-Thingy which lead to the ban of a few players in the past.

Sorry guys, but the invoking mechanic was implemented as a little "nice to have" feature for active players, not to rely on it for important KEY ITEMS.

As far as I can see, Cryptic is encouraging people to have more characters. Right after they changed the t-bar store, they had a 80% off for characters slots. The regular price is 500 Zen for 2 slots. With that promotion, it was 50 Zen (or 50 cents) per slot. If you compare the price of character slots vs bank slots vs bags, you can see they are also "encouraging" user to use character as storage. Is it a great idea? This is THE idea that Cryptic set up all along. Why would they allow the limit to be 53 (is it even more now?) if one cannot fully utilize them in the "proper" way?

Those got banned were accused to use bot.

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oliboyph

lirithiel said:

oliboyph said:

I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to pay for it.

FIFY.

You do know there are a ton of 4k+ free players out here yes? I myself have spent only a few $$ and only in my first 2 months, I've been a free player since. Anyway It's up to you how you see it, no one can change how you play this game but you.

shadw2012 said:

oliboyph said:

And yet, we are all still here. Invoking is not meant to be super rewarding but having 2 characters grinding at full capacity everyday will eventally get you that enchants that you need. The idea is to be patient.



If you really want to take advantage of coffers, open them 50 pcs at a time.



I think we have to dettatch ourselves from feeling entitled to anything from this game. If you want something from this game, be prepared to work for it.

You forgot a few other items that are not rewarding -

Dungeons
Skirmishes
PvP
PvE after getting leveled to 70
Most if not all things gated behind horrid RNG

And no, i feel entitled to nothing, everything i have on my main I did the grind for, so I have earned every single piece i currently have.

I could go on but there is no point to it, after all this is just a game.....and there are many others that have their own quirks and downsides. None as bad as the non-content this game seems to have, well other than certain areas being reused and some even reversed and stamped as new content. Fun older content removed just to be partially added back in and dumbed down beyond anything i have ever seen.

Pretty much the way it is now in my opinon, its for new players, in the following steps -

Start your new toon
Level to 70
Grind your gear
End game is meh.......get bored, move on.

Next batch of new players move in and the cycle repeats.

You may be right, but as you said, this game will go on. If you so happen to still be playing this game, might as well ask yourself why you are still here.

lantern22

Well it looks like as a response they have nerfed the amount of AD you get for Invoking - first one now gives 138AD (with the 10% VIP bonus)

????? - is this WAI?

- my bad - was on a lvl 40 toon, didn't know it was Lvl dependent. Ooops

krymkac

I have 11 chars... 1 of each class i play with + 3 for proffs/different paragons... Last c ward i got.. at least 6 months ago. And i open coffers only during 2x rp. Good thing i dont really need them till they release another broken & op as HAMSTER enchant. If some of your are lucky enough it doesn't change the fact that the system sucks. Oh well at least green wards drop pretty often but still 1 per coffer? meh... So funny to see comments of ppl with armies for leadership/praying. Normal gameplay right.
Oh and about be patient idea... With that attitude by the time y get the items y want they either will be nerfed or outdated.

zibadawa

I got two coals in a single day a few days back. I think it's just you and the typical "I don't really understand how probability works" syndrome. As everyone ought to know by now, it's a numbers game anyway. There's nothing about this problem you can't solve by throwing more alts at it.

krymkac

No its just you & typical "buy more slots create more chars" HAMSTER. Some ppl want to play the game and earn stuff by playing not by throwing more alts & exploiting the hell out of the broken system. And we kinda had that in the past before all the smart changes. Rng gating is just lazy design nothing more. Lazy marketing too. The game needs new players who wont run away after seeing the only way they can progress is by either paying the ridiculous price in zen or creating armies of praying/leadership bots.

lirithiel

oliboyph said:

You may be right, but as you said, this game will go on. If you so happen to still be playing this game, might as well ask yourself why you are still here.

Show me another free MMO set on Faerun that has comparable graphics and combat system and I'll drop NW like a bad habit. THAT is why I am still here...