Who thinks the op bubble should be 10seconds instead of 6

poison863

nightranger7477

Yes

And shield of faith should be 50% like kv and should have no cooldown and should have to be reset after stun like kv or bond of Virtue but I think we are beating a dead horse, they have made their decision and I really don't see them changing it. We can only hope they will buff the Pally class down the road or do a total rework of the class.

kasuyo

Yes

What is the point of being a paladin oath of protection if the cut powers down to protect less. I mean who are the geniuses thought that idea, nothing was wrong with it in the first place. Always got to ruin it, sick of games bring ruined. Neverwinter no more for me.

ltsmithneko

No

No point for the bubble in the first place, everything is do-able without it and serve the closest thing for a challenge they're going to get. All they need is an aggro buff.

armadeonx

No

Neko & Muffins are right - lose the bubble completely & replace it with a forced aggro daily that makes everything within aura range come after the Pally.

The Pally can drop Circle of Power to boost (only) themselves to 80% DR, run auras of vengeance and courage as group buffs (plus 25% power to the team) and stand there and slug it out like they're meant to. Use a decent debuff weapon enchantment and their team will be ploughing through content - just so long as the others don't stand in the red

That's a proper aggro tank, we need to lose the bubble completely.

manyvengeance

Well, the ability is pretty much useless atm, the anim takes like one sec, and when enemies like Demogorgon stun you for 5 secs, better to avoid it, really, lol.

Right now nobody needs OPs tbh, we have less threat than GFs and don't offer anything better than a GF, so why play as/with them? Only a few ppl actually play with pallys now, the undergeared ppl hoping you can keep them alive and the guys that wanna farm with like 3 support classes (and so dungs will be more forgiving if they screw up). The whole class needs a rework, imo, out of all our abilities, half don't work as intended, including Aura of Truth, Binding Oath, the very passive from choosing Oath of Protection, Vow and Relentless avenger don't know the difference between Oaths and some of the ones that do work are pretty much useless (not even talking about the bubble specifically).

If they're going to keep the class as it is now, they need to go for the 10 secs, but if they want to actually improve something, so many things need to be fixed and/or changed. But I doubt they'll do anything to the class soon

luigipr31

Yes

I think the bubble should be 10 sec or more but wit the downside of not able to generate AP while the bubble is up. Like the DC power HG. That way you can protect your teammates but not having a perma-bubble in the fights.

zman81420

No

I'm fine if the bubble was similar in a way to Knights Valor constant uptime whilst causing the OP damage. Immunity is boring as hell, if you need to sit there immune to do content regardless of TiL you may have to reflect on yourselves and put in some more hard work to achieve success, gear up by grinding to suceed without the crutch.

satniteeduardo

Yes

I voted yes but I would prefer to vote maybe. At the moment I have this question - what can you currently do with an Oath of Protection Paragon path?

With regards to everything being runnable without, it is provided you are well geared.

Mains in my guild destroy stuff without needing much tanking or healing - buffs/debuffs preferred.

Some alts or lower level mains prefer tanks / bubble / heals.

Even when my bubble was perma some groups asked me to run my GF rather than my OP but other groups loved my OP. Now if it was the 4ks running with my bubble then sure why run a dungeon in no time and take zero damage.

I think there is a balance to be struck and to me 6secs is not it.

PS all my comments are PVE based.

armadeonx

No

satniteeduardo said:

I voted yes but I would prefer to vote maybe. At the moment I have this question - what can you currently do with an Oath of Protection Paragon path?

With regards to everything being runnable without, it is provided you are well geared.

Mains in my guild destroy stuff without needing much tanking or healing - buffs/debuffs preferred.

Some alts or lower level mains prefer tanks / bubble / heals.

Even when my bubble was perma some groups asked me to run my GF rather than my OP but other groups loved my OP. Now if it was the 4ks running with my bubble then sure why run a dungeon in no time and take zero damage.

I think there is a balance to be struck and to me 6secs is not it.

PS all my comments are PVE based.

The first thing Prot Pallys need to do is get their Resistance Ignored to 60%, it will greatly improve their threat gen - this is often completely ignored. Chasing perma-bubble is a red herring, once more people get back there it'll be nerfed again - don't waste your time and AD. Instead, focus on improving DPS to draw aggro and buffs to aid your party.

thefiresidecat

Yes

i used the guild boon and got right up to 60 arp. i still couldn't hold aggro. the class is useless at the moment. if they were really going to rework the class that would be one thing but let's be honest.. it aint gonna happen. how many other classes have a useless tree from nerf. archers, hasties.. ect.. I guess there is the healadin but
a ten second bubble would make the class useful again without a giant rework.

asjohnson

Yes

I said it before, I'll say it again...Bubble can still be perma. I have seen and played with multiple Perma-Bubbles since the nerf. So they still exist, it still happens, so I guess increasing it to 10secs would be nice, but its not needed really.

stpensive

No

What people do not seem to realize is that the bubble made the game unchallenging, thus, un-fun. When you remove the challenge, it's just mindless walking.

Consider this: before the nerf, if dungeons were not gated, meaning no obstacles from beginning to end, would most well geared Pallys be able to walk a party, straight through, without anyone ever dying? Yes, they could. How is that fun?

pr3stigex

Yes

The need to do something, I been running CN on my 2.6k SW (alt ) because he can beat orcus without a tank. My poor GWF (main) gets HAMSTER slapped without a tank.

manyvengeance

defiantone99 said:

The bubble is all the Prot OP has. GFs are better in every way. The OP needs a major rework to make it a viable class-damage, buffs, debuffs and other party utilities on par with GF.

This!! ^^

The problem with pallys isn't the bubble, the problem is that out there is another class doing the same as we do, but better, simple as that. If they wanna do dmg, they deal more dmg than OPs, if they wanna buff, they buff a ton more, if they wanna tank, they hold aggro easier and take 50% of the groups dmg all the time they want, we have 6 seconds.

But to be fair, dungeons've been more interesting with the bubble as it is now.

armadeonx

No

Class rebalance is on the cards, Strum said on the PC forums that he's seen the proposal. He also said to me that Cryptic are aware of the need for much better threat gen for the Pally - hopefully it'll arrive sooner rather than later.

mahburg

Yes

What is laughable is they did this because of the whining in PVP that Pallies could not be killed and yet Its Templars Wrath that keeps pallies alive not the bubble, the bubble allowed guys to help lower level guys get their tier 2 gear with minimal pain.

Its fine for me with my Maxed Gwf to say it removed challenge, but we all do remember the first time Going through the first door at cragmire when everyone wiped due to the OP nature of some of the ads right?

The pally helped re-balance that, I cant see why they could not have just disabled the bubble for PVP and left it alone for PVE those that wanted a challenge had a simple solution dont run with one, however the minority yet again in a game have imposed their will on the majority by endless whining (jeez it gets more like cod every day in this game) lol

Players who invested massively in the Pallies and ran them as their mains have started leaving the game is that what everyone envisaged when this all kicked off?
I have a 3.6 pally among my Alts I now have no idea what to use him for as my GF does as good a job in many ways, as For my 3.5 haste DC lets not even go there lol

draco16

Yes

We need the bubble in order to help lower levels to get better equipment. If the lower equipped characters don't have a chance they will leave game. The bosses hit just as hard as before the bubble got nerfed. Either the bubble is returned or the bosses are adjusted so that lower geared players have a chance. Time is of the essence or you will lose the newer player base that cannot progress forward.

telprydain

Yes

Is not about needing the bubble, it's about effectively removing a ability without replacing it.
GF hold more aggro, buff far better and are always the optimal choice.

Biggest issue they have is they outsourced the core paladin abilities to the GF (buffing and so forth) day one... So when it came to make a paladin class they went and made him a classic d&d cleric. Problem is we already have a cleric.

Leaves the pally with no niche.

telprydain

Yes

Side note : am I the only one that thinks it's odd pally have the better heal and cleric has the better buff/debuff.


Need to have themselves a skill swap.

stpensive

No

mahburg said:

the bubble allowed guys to help lower level guys get their tier 2 gear with minimal pain.

Correction:

'the bubble allowed guys to help lower level guys get their tier 2 gear with minimal pain effort'

stpensive

No

draco16#8040 said:

We need the bubble in order to help lower levels to get better equipment. If the lower equipped characters don't have a chance they will leave game. The bosses hit just as hard as before the bubble got nerfed. Either the bubble is returned or the bosses are adjusted so that lower geared players have a chance. Time is of the essence or you will lose the newer player base that cannot progress forward.

The 'lower geared' have options and should not be in higher level dungeons if they are not prepared. What would be a greater tragedy is if they did what you are asking for; essentially, remove all challenge for the people that are properly geared \ prepared.

jakefarrell

No

poopoomcmuffns said:

I think prot pally would be well rounded if they upped its aggro capabilitys and gave it a little more buffing ability.

so true

sundance777

Yes

Either restore a few seconds on the bubble or make KV a daily with a timer and a cooldown as well. No one seems to complain that KV is always on. Or just remove the Pally from the game and credit us the money we spent building it so we can build something else.

jaime4312

No

null
Gfs don't make party members immortal but more powerful. Feel free to prove me wrong with evidence, such as videos. Show me a non bis warlock with knight's valor on taking a direct hit from Orcus and them tell me if that's immortality.

20 seconds bubble was a cancer that greatly damaged this game's communitt by turning players into lazy individuals who can't dodge a snail nor have they a single clue about their class and let alone the others.

Around 3 days ago I had a cn run in which I got disrespected by a 3500 gwf who would not stop standing in red areas, he spammed the chat like there was no tomorrow, calling me "useless" because my paladin (devo) didn't have bubble. He also spammed "pally, bubble". He got reported, blocked and quit the group with another unable-to-dodge dps and they got replaced with guys who helped us with that run.

When I run pug cn on my gf, I just ask dps a few things (like, you know, dodge and don't face tank the boss) and healers others, we as a random group succeded at least 50% -64% of the times. When dps constantly stand in the red as they did for months when carried by the bubble (high item level toons included), cn runs tend to fail, especially if members have English skills worse than mine and therefore cannot understand me.

pr3stigex

Yes

Well to be fair paladins threat generation is lacking in a major way. A GF can keep threat away from my GWF and I can stand behind orcus and kill him quickly. I will pull threat off a paladin guaranteed, orcus doesn't fk around and put red circles on the ground, he turns and quickly one shots me. lol

zak3056

No

Agree that the bubble was a cancer, since it trained us to stand in the red (lots of pallys I ran with even requested you do so!) Basically, the only REAL problem here is that they took nine months to nerf things, which was a pretty clear message that "this is intended behavior, build your stuff around it"

That said, if you REALLY want to still be perma bubble, you can still build for it--but after talking to one of my friends who looked at doing so, you're leaving a LOT on the table to be a one trick pony. So my advice is to adjust to the new norm. My CW lost a bunch of DPS with the elol nerf, and I'm not whining about it.

nightranger7477

Yes

It's truly amazing how many ppl who have no idea how the Protection paladin class works and have never played one are screaming no, I agree that 20 seconds was way to long and that it degraded people's ability to properly run dungeons, and in pvp we were immortal but why destroy a class that so many like myself have put so much time and effort into building a close to BIS pally and not offer a rework or an alternative power or mechanic to replace the one that was nerfed, it's not just Divine Protector that was taken away binding oath was nerfed echoes was nerfed and we have broken threat generation that was not addressed and all that was given in return, a free respec token for your troubles! A total rework of the class from top to bottom is in order, Devotion is really the only viable path at this point for new Pallys and that is just sad. It will truly be interesting to see the next set of class reworks and how ppl feel when what they have worked so hard for is taken away.

jaime4312

No

null
Exactly, what people need is less whining and more experimenting to adapt to the new changes, that is, to slighty or completely change their builds and rotations. They also need to experiment with the other classes to learn what ways are effective to complete epic content... the other day I joined a cn run (pug) and the team was at orcus fight. The gwf tried to kick the cw out but the team didn't let him (myself included) to do such a thing, I suggested we gave it a few tries and a few minutes after... Orcus got killed. The cw turned out to be a regenade build that kep ny guardian healed well enough in absence of a cleric/healadin and the gwfs helped by staying behind the boss. By the way, I do not use steel defence, dropped it months ago and I'm glad I did that.

Other things I have done in absence of healers is asking hunter rangers to use fox cunning and it works pretty well.

jaime4312

No

null
The only thing I agree you on is that Paladin's threat generation needs some love but that's it. I have a prot Paladin myself, stopped using it because it was brain dead easy and took absolutely no skill, hence why I started a gf almost 6 months ago or so. (built it myself, didn't copy anyone's toon). Sure, my gf isn't the best but is improving and gets the job done, I'm glad because of what I done with it, even got congratulated by people from the top guilds (xb1) after running with them.

Are you seriously complaining about binding oath's changes? That encounter is blatantly overpowered and it's hilariously broken as you can spam it with Justice tree which 99.99% of Paladins are, it makes you almost unkillable in most situations, it does render your shield a mere cosmetic item in most case (I'm looking at you too, crazy op, spammable templar's wrath).

Echoes of light was ridiculous, it needed to get fixed, the chance to recharge powers was really high.

Prot Paladin wasn't destroyed, they still tank like gods and good ones can surive Orcus' dps, is that an issue for you? The way you guys made these posts shows a evident bubble-dependency, it's like you cannot conceive a prot paladin without permabubble/semi-permabubble, it just proves how much damage that daily has done to this community.


You decided to try to flavor of the year bubble, you should have considered that maybe, maybe that extremely overpowered daily would eventually get nerfed, especially because everyone and their brother was running one and you do know that in those cases, is not a matter or if but when, the holy nerfing hammer will hit these broken builds with all its might, then people will move on to the next flavor of the month/mod/year and the cycle starts all over again.

Test new builds to see what you can achieve, you may find something really good, you'll see that if you stop seeing the bubble as the centre of the universe, you'll learn more about your toon.

Devotion path is not the only one viable, you just need to see how protection can work... it has plenty of non-permabubble stuff you can try out.

nightranger7477

Yes

You are entitled to your opinion and myself mine....