For serious, slap a voucher for 1600 Influence on these tasks in place of the AD and it's still a ludicrous amount of profession hours to actively pursue running them, but I wouldn't say no to if they come up and I happen to have the stuff available.
+1. I would love to see this too, please! It would help out smaller guilds!
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
meh,, never really ran these anyway so no big loss,,, like someone mentioned,, maybe add influence vouchers and i may be interested in running them IF i happen to see them pop
Since you can clearly have things different between Xbox and PC and since Xbox does not have these bot issues since professions are only available in-game, who not leave it in the Xbox version of the game since it is clearly not an issue there.
On a side note, why is Leadership so hard to level up compared to others. I can get regular 1200 XP rewards for items like Weaponsmithing, but the largest I get for leadership is 260 XP...which takes forever to do...
Next to be removed from Leadership will be RP items...
Why? ... Bots.
Well, they could instead remove enchantments from profession nodes... and/or replace them with account bound RP and/or rare mount insignias. That would take care of the bots.
Anyway, as mentioned before, i still hope that this is not just another round of "adjusting" Leadership, but that they also come up with at least some improvements for this profession in return.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
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0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Leadership needs balancing. There are tons of tasks that take either longer than common and/or lower level task and give out LESS reward! So now you're going to add 3 more tasks like that? BRILLIANT!
Remarkable, administration claims the leadership AD resources were removed to "stableize the economy" but it hasn't done so...
If anything the AD/zen market is approaching pre-nurffed leadership professions prices, those people who had HAMSTER tons of AD's prior to the change still have HAMSTER tons of AD and in some cases are now controling the Auction House by buying up items, putting higher prices on those items and putting them back into the Auction House. The admins have removed mount upgrades from the game, but those people with huge stockpiles of AD's can still purchase lockbox keys and put items they want to sell In the Auction House to generate more AD's...
All that has been done in my opinion is making it more difficult - nearly impossible for regular, follow the rules players to obtain the items they need to successfully play Neverwinter while giving those people employing disallowed methods the opportunity AND PROTECTION to keep and increase their wealth.
it was clear that these tasks were still a target for botting.
yea, any proof ?
it's hard to comprehend that they were botted since all of them required mark of gratitude and they are more expensive on AH then the task itself, not to mention that it requires you to do other tasks to obtain them.
and since the rank5 are still farmed from skill nodes that it should be a higher priority , nothing was taken against it.
You can get all you need to do these tasks from other tasks in the Leadership profession. I (and obviously the devs also) initially thought that the amount of tasks neccessary to do these would stop these botters from abusing them. But apparently, bots don't care much about having to do these other tasks. I guess, if there's anything that's worth doing it, they would even run bots in the professions if there was only one slot for all tasks. To be honest, your last sentence doesn't really make sense to me. (aka, I don't understand what you mean.)
"I came from a long gone time, saw many other times...
But I'm still human."
Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
---
"I don't like the smell of this."
Eliza Sandtracker, Hunter Ranger
This will have no impact on the economy, as everyone has said, these very rare tasks aren't run by bots and grant hardly anything. It's just making what they've already made a mostly useless profession now even more useless.
Most of the current rare tasks take much longer than the regular tasks, require more rare items, and give... fewer rewards. That's what happens when they strip stuff from the profession with absolutely no thought and don't care about the result.
I'm not remotely upset about the removal, just the continued disregard for people by not even bothering to replace anything they've removed.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
I find it interesting that Strum says "We're doing X because reasons..." and the number of people scream "LIES!". Where's your proof instead of demanding the devs produce it?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
0
chrisolliecMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 37Arc User
I think the whole professions branch needs a major revamp. Most professions are completely out of synch with the player progression. Besides the fact that some professions level faster than others. (I'm NOT talking about Leadership/Alchemy)
"I came from a long gone time, saw many other times...
But I'm still human."
Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
---
"I don't like the smell of this."
Eliza Sandtracker, Hunter Ranger
here a story of leadership, the adventures of heroic profession.
Grand Hero await for reports from his mercenaries and inspiratial new heroes and saw his returning adventurers bringing the loots and decided to inspect the goods. "where is the diamonds"? 1st hero replied, they no longer have them in stock, it hadnt been restocked since last patch. "Huh? what" grandmaster hero seem confused and lost, "well, okay, let make arrangement for stronghold siege". 2nd hero made comment, "Sir! all the bandit Strongholds no longer able to have diamonds" Grandmaster hero, saying "Why? are they lazy?" 1st hero just answered, "Sir!, it was the Devs decided not to have diamonds in leaderships anymore, just plain vouchers". Grandmaster hero was shocked to hear this, and made a declairation, "That's Crazy of them!, Well, okay our new plan, let set a siege at dev's office where they work", as he paused "Men, to the arms! alert the call of arm, we need everyone, we must attack" "but Sir, we are broke, got no diamonds to fight for and trade bars are useless, only we got was those vouchers" Grandmaster spit, "Vouchers? they seem more like IOUs!"
0
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Are the bots running in game or on the gateway ?
If the latter, why not just fail to show any tasks that generate ADs in the list of available tasks there, and let the rest of us get on with it ?
i have some concepts for leadership recontruction and pattern of loot tables. 1. map searching tasks 2. locating "X" spots and claim trading items (catapults, devices, and other questable proffesion items) 3. final trading task rounds, (usually reserved for diamonds, now that taken away for something else new), to get vouchers, unique "bounded" items (refine stones and etc), and/or "next tier upgrades"
1-6 levels, start with plain white frame maps, for low tier items and tier 1 upgrade loots. 7-13 levels, use green maps from current mission tasks, for green item upgrades and gemstones. 14-20 levels, use blue maps from current mission tasks, for blue upgrades. 21-25 level, the current cap base level, some mission may have longer timeframe tasks, longer the missions get, more extra maps found, should be using all new profession tier tasks required just like black ice refining tiers, stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3. stage 1 get 1-2 maps if basic task, stage 2 get 2-4 maps if successful, and stage 3 get 3-5 maps if more successful. those task should be at purple grade missions, need purple grade maps. better elite devices found or fought for loots or prizes from bandits, cultists, or dragon lairs* * denotes as new mission for adventurers in very dangerous quests, should come with 3 stage tiers of success scale.
i would put some diamonds on 1 week timer, if follow on mondays reset rotations like new profession weeklys, one task per week, per 1 account, if i have 5 alts, only one should be able to running it instead of all the characters. back to 21-25 lvl cap tier, some missions can be on standard quests, some take some hours, and some take 1 day missions, and few "rare" missions (randomly) for a week or more likely can be failed and use defualt loot table or stage 2 rewards, if they hit stage 3 and they are very lucky and get better stage 3 rewards.
any suggestions???
i am sure if later if devs to add new level cap for new profession recipes or raised to next tier as "Legendary Quests" and later for "Mythical quests" in future for new tier versions, 21-26 lvl purple, and 27-34 lvl orange frame items for legendary, and 35-40 lvl teal color frame for mythical.
devs should know these current missions when they took out diamond missions just threw other tasks in a mess, what we do with refugees, devices, catapults if they become slot hogs in inventory sections with nothing to use them except for vendor baits and these dont sell much and some decided to use AH to get diamonds from others.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If the latter, why not just fail to show any tasks that generate ADs in the list of available tasks there, and let the rest of us get on with it ?
Sigh.
Did you miss the first iteration of trying to stop botting AD from Leadership? The profession was disabled on Gateway. Some players said, "Hah! That ain't gonna work", and the botters converted their scripting over to running directly in the game, and we eventually ended up where we are now.
If the latter, why not just fail to show any tasks that generate ADs in the list of available tasks there, and let the rest of us get on with it ?
Sigh.
Did you miss the first iteration of trying to stop botting AD from Leadership? The profession was disabled on Gateway. Some players said, "Hah! That ain't gonna work", and the botters converted their scripting over to running directly in the game, and we eventually ended up where we are now.
I didn't miss it, but thought they just decided that it was better to have leadership on the gateway and to do that they had to remove the ADs, I didn't realise the bots had moved in game. Any competent game should be able to detect the bots in game, while it's much more difficult in the gateway, but it seems NW didn't build in any of the tools to do it and won't now spend the money to add them.
0
shanawdithitMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 50Arc User
the leadership profession needs a whole overhaul, if they do remove ad from the rare rewards, why rescue prisoners if it has no justifiable reward, why build houseing for them for the same reason etc..... the coming changes better make it worth doing or they might as well remove leadership completely, change it to cooking or something so atleast we could make our own buff foods.
You can get all you need to do these tasks from other tasks in the Leadership profession. I (and obviously the devs also) initially thought that the amount of tasks neccessary to do these would stop these botters from abusing them. But apparently, bots don't care much about having to do these other tasks. I guess, if there's anything that's worth doing it, they would even run bots in the professions if there was only one slot for all tasks.
Tedium only ever encourages and rewards botting. Making the task one at a time just encourages using many characters, which encourages the use of bots to save time. Making the desired tasks randomly available just encourages using bots to check every single hour for them. Making those tasks depend on other randomly available tasks encourages bots yet again. Putting in captchas is an annoying tedium for humans, so encourages people to seek bots to circumvent it.
There's not much you can do to stop botting. You can nerf things into the ground, like Cryptic loves to do, but that just redirects bots to other avenues or reduces their gains, which is simply compensated by increased prices. This mostly only ever impacts the non-botting players, as they are implicitly dependent upon the resources that the bots put into the market. The bots don't really lose anything at all. If they're producing fewer of a critical resource whose price is predicated upon the bot supply, then prices go up and bots still get the same income. Nerfing everything they could possibly profit from--again, Cryptic's overarching gameplan--punishes only the players and not the bots. If botters find the rewards so paltry they'll simply switch games. And now the entire economy of the game inflates because there's vastly insufficient quantities of what you need, so the company has to reduce what you need, and unless absolutely everything of note is untradable that just returns the profit incentive to botting and they'll return and you'll be back where you started. And if you're going to make everything untradable (which Cryptic has come very close to doing), then now everyone has to farm up everything they need themselves, and that encourages the individual player to bot up everything he can rather than implicitly relying on others doing this, and divorces the game from the "multiplayer" genre.
You have to regulate but otherwise accept botting. You can't stop it without ruining a game or turning it into strictly single player. You can't say you're trying to stop it all without it being obvious to the players how utter ineffectual you are in the long run. You can only step in when it leads to severe inflation or trivializations. You have to design whatever you put into the game around the assumption that a significant number of bots will be directed towards it. If bots "ruin" something, that's a symptom of bad game design and nothing else.
devs doing all wrong with profession, taking out diamonds from leadership leaving with mess of broken task lines when they should had rebuilt leadership from scratch and start over with newer task rewards.
example, Maps, Locatings, exchanges, and then enemy camps for final task line rewards.
now, we just scratched our heads wonder what we do with these refugees, devices, and maps when they have no path-endings. it sound like devs want us to stop doing profession and completely given up?
taking out diamonds is prematurely when there is other heroes/mercenaries questlines are busted.
another reason, it is rare task that we dont see too often and random.
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shanawdithitMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 50Arc User
devs doing all wrong with profession, taking out diamonds from leadership leaving with mess of broken task lines when they should had rebuilt leadership from scratch and start over with newer task rewards.
example, Maps, Locatings, exchanges, and then enemy camps for final task line rewards.
now, we just scratched our heads wonder what we do with these refugees, devices, and maps when they have no path-endings. it sound like devs want us to stop doing profession and completely given up?
taking out diamonds is prematurely when there is other heroes/mercenaries questlines are busted.
another reason, it is rare task that we dont see too often and random.
yes exactly, no more prisoners, house or feed the homeless, it has no more end reward for it, i expect the next thing they will nerf will be the refinement rewards and that will be the end of that profession
I can understand why AD was removed from Leadership in the first place, but how is this such a problem? As someone who logs the crafting nearly every day I don't know if I've even managed to do a SINGLE rare leadership task yet.
What I wish you all did instead of removing AD in the first place was substituting it for various BoE vouchers for Strongholds.
i have some concepts for leadership recontruction and pattern of loot tables. 1. map searching tasks 2. locating "X" spots and claim trading items (catapults, devices, and other questable proffesion items) 3. final trading task rounds, (usually reserved for diamonds, now that taken away for something else new), to get vouchers, unique "bounded" items (refine stones and etc), and/or "next tier upgrades".
devs doing all wrong with profession, . . . Maps, Locatings, exchanges, and then enemy camps for final task line rewards.
now, we just scratched our heads wonder what we do with these refugees, devices, and maps when they have no path-endings. it sound like devs want us to stop doing profession and completely given up? . . .
I really like the idea of using the professions for something other than generating RP or AD or some other trinket (since most of the items you can generate are just above garbage level). If I had to offer a guess as to the idea that Wylonus is promoting, it would be similar to the Foundry--use a map to generate a quest, higher level maps for higher level quests. I think it might also be similar to the Master Profession concept. Either way--another way to open new content into the game--it allows people to play solo with maps or tasks that they do on Gateway and then log in to the game to obtain a new quest, or potentially group entire guilds in if they design it that way. I think it would be great to tie in Gateway with an interactive concept in the game.
Stupid Question of the Day: Strangely enough, people aren't commenting on Alchemy armies making elemental aggregates and unified. Using the same math as uptondarkdiamond on the previous pages, a bot army could make 'millions' doing those tasks. The only difference between Leadership and Alchemy is that you need to generate the elements either in game or enchanted boxes and then sell the result on the AH--is that what prevents it from becoming a 'Leadership Army' that upsets the AD market? If the resources necessary for the task and the AH market are secondary checks on unlimited AD generation, then why not revamp Leadership to work in that fashion? It would only be a slight tweak from the current Rare Limitation--make an item that needs to be sold on the AH. That way the market controls the amount of AD generated.
Comments
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EDIT: cant remember the name but it required 3 MoGs and a blue map.
2nd EDIT: found it, Follow Map to an Unknown Location, this is the task
3RD edit: theyre not removed yet. my bad.
Posted on April 14th:This puts it as have went to Preview on the 15th with an unknown live release date still. I'm guessing patch day, Thursday the 21st.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
On a side note, why is Leadership so hard to level up compared to others. I can get regular 1200 XP rewards for items like Weaponsmithing, but the largest I get for leadership is 260 XP...which takes forever to do...
Anyway, as mentioned before, i still hope that this is not just another round of "adjusting" Leadership, but that they also come up with at least some improvements for this profession in return.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
If anything the AD/zen market is approaching pre-nurffed leadership professions prices, those people who had HAMSTER tons of AD's prior to the change still have HAMSTER tons of AD and in some cases are now controling the Auction House by buying up items, putting higher prices on those items and putting them back into the Auction House. The admins have removed mount upgrades from the game, but those people with huge stockpiles of AD's can still purchase lockbox keys and put items they want to sell In the Auction House to generate more AD's...
All that has been done in my opinion is making it more difficult - nearly impossible for regular, follow the rules players to obtain the items they need to successfully play Neverwinter while giving those people employing disallowed methods the opportunity AND PROTECTION to keep and increase their wealth.
My two cents...
I (and obviously the devs also) initially thought that the amount of tasks neccessary to do these would stop these botters from abusing them. But apparently, bots don't care much about having to do these other tasks.
I guess, if there's anything that's worth doing it, they would even run bots in the professions if there was only one slot for all tasks.
To be honest, your last sentence doesn't really make sense to me. (aka, I don't understand what you mean.)
But I'm still human."
Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
Eliza Sandtracker, Hunter Ranger
Most of the current rare tasks take much longer than the regular tasks, require more rare items, and give... fewer rewards. That's what happens when they strip stuff from the profession with absolutely no thought and don't care about the result.
I'm not remotely upset about the removal, just the continued disregard for people by not even bothering to replace anything they've removed.
Most professions are completely out of synch with the player progression.
Besides the fact that some professions level faster than others.
(I'm NOT talking about Leadership/Alchemy)
But I'm still human."
Admiral Chris Curtiss, Temporal Ambassador
Eliza Sandtracker, Hunter Ranger
Grand Hero await for reports from his mercenaries and inspiratial new heroes and saw his returning adventurers bringing the loots and decided to inspect the goods.
"where is the diamonds"?
1st hero replied, they no longer have them in stock, it hadnt been restocked since last patch.
"Huh? what" grandmaster hero seem confused and lost, "well, okay, let make arrangement for stronghold siege".
2nd hero made comment, "Sir! all the bandit Strongholds no longer able to have diamonds"
Grandmaster hero, saying "Why? are they lazy?"
1st hero just answered, "Sir!, it was the Devs decided not to have diamonds in leaderships anymore, just plain vouchers".
Grandmaster hero was shocked to hear this, and made a declairation, "That's Crazy of them!, Well, okay our new plan, let set a siege at dev's office where they work", as he paused "Men, to the arms! alert the call of arm, we need everyone, we must attack"
"but Sir, we are broke, got no diamonds to fight for and trade bars are useless, only we got was those vouchers"
Grandmaster spit, "Vouchers? they seem more like IOUs!"
If the latter, why not just fail to show any tasks that generate ADs in the list of available tasks there, and let the rest of us get on with it ?
1. map searching tasks
2. locating "X" spots and claim trading items (catapults, devices, and other questable proffesion items)
3. final trading task rounds, (usually reserved for diamonds, now that taken away for something else new), to get vouchers, unique "bounded" items (refine stones and etc), and/or "next tier upgrades"
1-6 levels,
start with plain white frame maps, for low tier items and tier 1 upgrade loots.
7-13 levels, use green maps from current mission tasks, for green item upgrades and gemstones.
14-20 levels, use blue maps from current mission tasks, for blue upgrades.
21-25 level, the current cap base level, some mission may have longer timeframe tasks, longer the missions get, more extra maps found, should be using all new profession tier tasks required just like black ice refining tiers, stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3.
stage 1 get 1-2 maps if basic task, stage 2 get 2-4 maps if successful, and stage 3 get 3-5 maps if more successful.
those task should be at purple grade missions, need purple grade maps. better elite devices found or fought for loots or prizes from bandits, cultists, or dragon lairs*
* denotes as new mission for adventurers in very dangerous quests, should come with 3 stage tiers of success scale.
i would put some diamonds on 1 week timer, if follow on mondays reset rotations like new profession weeklys, one task per week, per 1 account, if i have 5 alts, only one should be able to running it instead of all the characters.
back to 21-25 lvl cap tier, some missions can be on standard quests, some take some hours, and some take 1 day missions, and few "rare" missions (randomly) for a week or more likely can be failed and use defualt loot table or stage 2 rewards, if they hit stage 3 and they are very lucky and get better stage 3 rewards.
any suggestions???
i am sure if later if devs to add new level cap for new profession recipes or raised to next tier as "Legendary Quests" and later for "Mythical quests" in future for new tier versions, 21-26 lvl purple, and 27-34 lvl orange frame items for legendary, and 35-40 lvl teal color frame for mythical.
devs should know these current missions when they took out diamond missions just threw other tasks in a mess, what we do with refugees, devices, catapults if they become slot hogs in inventory sections with nothing to use them except for vendor baits and these dont sell much and some decided to use AH to get diamonds from others.
Did you miss the first iteration of trying to stop botting AD from Leadership? The profession was disabled on Gateway. Some players said, "Hah! That ain't gonna work", and the botters converted their scripting over to running directly in the game, and we eventually ended up where we are now.
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All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
the coming changes better make it worth doing or they might as well remove leadership completely, change it to cooking or something so atleast we could make our own buff foods.
There's not much you can do to stop botting. You can nerf things into the ground, like Cryptic loves to do, but that just redirects bots to other avenues or reduces their gains, which is simply compensated by increased prices. This mostly only ever impacts the non-botting players, as they are implicitly dependent upon the resources that the bots put into the market. The bots don't really lose anything at all. If they're producing fewer of a critical resource whose price is predicated upon the bot supply, then prices go up and bots still get the same income. Nerfing everything they could possibly profit from--again, Cryptic's overarching gameplan--punishes only the players and not the bots. If botters find the rewards so paltry they'll simply switch games. And now the entire economy of the game inflates because there's vastly insufficient quantities of what you need, so the company has to reduce what you need, and unless absolutely everything of note is untradable that just returns the profit incentive to botting and they'll return and you'll be back where you started. And if you're going to make everything untradable (which Cryptic has come very close to doing), then now everyone has to farm up everything they need themselves, and that encourages the individual player to bot up everything he can rather than implicitly relying on others doing this, and divorces the game from the "multiplayer" genre.
You have to regulate but otherwise accept botting. You can't stop it without ruining a game or turning it into strictly single player. You can't say you're trying to stop it all without it being obvious to the players how utter ineffectual you are in the long run. You can only step in when it leads to severe inflation or trivializations. You have to design whatever you put into the game around the assumption that a significant number of bots will be directed towards it. If bots "ruin" something, that's a symptom of bad game design and nothing else.
It's not an easy thing to do, granted.
example, Maps, Locatings, exchanges, and then enemy camps for final task line rewards.
now, we just scratched our heads wonder what we do with these refugees, devices, and maps when they have no path-endings. it sound like devs want us to stop doing profession and completely given up?
taking out diamonds is prematurely when there is other heroes/mercenaries questlines are busted.
another reason, it is rare task that we dont see too often and random.
yes exactly, no more prisoners, house or feed the homeless, it has no more end reward for it, i expect the next thing they will nerf will be the refinement rewards and that will be the end of that profession
What I wish you all did instead of removing AD in the first place was substituting it for various BoE vouchers for Strongholds.
Stupid Question of the Day: Strangely enough, people aren't commenting on Alchemy armies making elemental aggregates and unified. Using the same math as uptondarkdiamond on the previous pages, a bot army could make 'millions' doing those tasks. The only difference between Leadership and Alchemy is that you need to generate the elements either in game or enchanted boxes and then sell the result on the AH--is that what prevents it from becoming a 'Leadership Army' that upsets the AD market? If the resources necessary for the task and the AH market are secondary checks on unlimited AD generation, then why not revamp Leadership to work in that fashion? It would only be a slight tweak from the current Rare Limitation--make an item that needs to be sold on the AH. That way the market controls the amount of AD generated.