It's not a lie, the ZAX is the proof. Before leadership nerf = backlog, after leadership nerf = no backlog and huge price drop. It was NOT all the AD in the system, but it was a huge chunk of it and it was causing problems. Leadership armies did something that was particularly harmful: IT PRINTED FRESH NEW AD INTO THE ECONOMY AT AN ALARMING RATE! This means AD hyperinflation, plain and simple. Rough AD is the only way to increase the total AD in the system, ZAX and AH (actually, this one also takes it away with the fees and cuts) only transfer existing AD between players. So, what other sources of ROUGH AD were there that injected more AD into the economy than leadership armies? Invokes? I don't think so, but even if they did, those were partially nerfed as well, and they went hand in hand with leadership armies anyways. What else? Nothing else, that's what.
You seem to be viewing the leadership ad nerf in a vacuum. There were also some thing in game not WAI that allowed people to print AD with zero initial investment. The leadership armies required a lot of work to setup, grow, and manage. There is a key difference.
Also 4 very big AD sinks were introduced around the same time as the leadership AD nerf. VIP, Strongholds, many 2xRP weekends(people in-fluxing more zen for AD to get cheap RP), reduction in cost on wards (people could/would spend more AD on micro transactions like RP instead of macro transactions like wards).
BTW the leadership AD ability existed since the start of the game but did not gain wide popularity until two things happened.
1) the new expensive RP system was introduced with the enchant rework/artifact introductions followed later by artifact equipment introduction
2) People could no longer make AD by selling dungeon dropped items on the AH. Once upon a time there was a healthy economy that existed around players farming dungeons for gear and selling the gear on the AH to players who transferred zen to AD. That's right you could make AD by playing the game in amounts larger than the daily refinement threshold
There are people who enjoy professions, but there are a lot more people who would rather earn the AD in game via achievement.
It's not a lie, the ZAX is the proof. Before leadership nerf = backlog, after leadership nerf = no backlog and huge price drop. It was NOT all the AD in the system, but it was a huge chunk of it and it was causing problems. Leadership armies did something that was particularly harmful: IT PRINTED FRESH NEW AD INTO THE ECONOMY AT AN ALARMING RATE! This means AD hyperinflation, plain and simple. Rough AD is the only way to increase the total AD in the system, ZAX and AH (actually, this one also takes it away with the fees and cuts) only transfer existing AD between players. So, what other sources of ROUGH AD were there that injected more AD into the economy than leadership armies? Invokes? I don't think so, but even if they did, those were partially nerfed as well, and they went hand in hand with leadership armies anyways. What else? Nothing else, that's what.
You seem to be viewing the leadership ad nerf in a vacuum. There were also some thing in game not WAI that allowed people to print AD with zero initial investment. The leadership armies required a lot of work to setup, grow, and manage. There is a key difference.
Also 4 very big AD sinks were introduced around the same time as the leadership AD nerf. VIP, Strongholds, many 2xRP weekends(people in-fluxing more zen for AD to get cheap RP), reduction in cost on wards (people could/would spend more AD on micro transactions like RP instead of macro transactions like wards).
BTW the leadership AD ability existed since the start of the game but did not gain wide popularity until two things happened.
1) the new expensive RP system was introduced with the enchant rework/artifact introductions followed later by artifact equipment introduction
2) People could no longer make AD by selling dungeon dropped items on the AH. Once upon a time there was a healthy economy that existed around players farming dungeons for gear and selling the gear on the AH to players who transferred zen to AD. That's right you could make AD by playing the game in amounts larger than the daily refinement threshold
There are people who enjoy professions, but there are a lot more people who would rather earn the AD in game via achievement.
I remember that time. With all the nice equip you got and could sell on AH it made sense to farm dungeons for hours at the time. However it seems that was also not good for the economy, making ad in game and buying zen with it is not what Cryptic wants. It is not bringing anything to the table. So it had to be changed.
to answer on epic demo, i get 1silver/2gold, and there isnt any twisty anywhere, i have heard that you can get on 1s/2g, and other said it is broken, they have not got any ichors even with 3/g, and some are reporting.
to answer on epic demo, i get 1silver/2gold, and there isnt any twisty anywhere, i have heard that you can get on 1s/2g, and other said it is broken, they have not got any ichors even with 3/g, and some are reporting.
Yesterday we did guild Edemo, 4 runs / 2 guild parties. We where supposed to have 3 phases- all gold, however the second phase is bugged again. Even with enough time remaining in the second phase for the gold , it shows silver rank. No matter what you do, how many portals you hit or how fast you kill it, it is still silver. I do not think there is a chance to get +4 rings and legendary rings with that kind of score? Or am i wrong?
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,401Arc User
It's not a lie, the ZAX is the proof. Before leadership nerf = backlog, after leadership nerf = no backlog and huge price drop. It was NOT all the AD in the system, but it was a huge chunk of it and it was causing problems. Leadership armies did something that was particularly harmful: IT PRINTED FRESH NEW AD INTO THE ECONOMY AT AN ALARMING RATE! This means AD hyperinflation, plain and simple. Rough AD is the only way to increase the total AD in the system, ZAX and AH (actually, this one also takes it away with the fees and cuts) only transfer existing AD between players. So, what other sources of ROUGH AD were there that injected more AD into the economy than leadership armies? Invokes? I don't think so, but even if they did, those were partially nerfed as well, and they went hand in hand with leadership armies anyways. What else? Nothing else, that's what.
You seem to be viewing the leadership ad nerf in a vacuum. There were also some thing in game not WAI that allowed people to print AD with zero initial investment. The leadership armies required a lot of work to setup, grow, and manage. There is a key difference.
Also 4 very big AD sinks were introduced around the same time as the leadership AD nerf. VIP, Strongholds, many 2xRP weekends(people in-fluxing more zen for AD to get cheap RP), reduction in cost on wards (people could/would spend more AD on micro transactions like RP instead of macro transactions like wards).
BTW the leadership AD ability existed since the start of the game but did not gain wide popularity until two things happened.
1) the new expensive RP system was introduced with the enchant rework/artifact introductions followed later by artifact equipment introduction
2) People could no longer make AD by selling dungeon dropped items on the AH. Once upon a time there was a healthy economy that existed around players farming dungeons for gear and selling the gear on the AH to players who transferred zen to AD. That's right you could make AD by playing the game in amounts larger than the daily refinement threshold
There are people who enjoy professions, but there are a lot more people who would rather earn the AD in game via achievement.
I remember that time. With all the nice equip you got and could sell on AH it made sense to farm dungeons for hours at the time. However it seems that was also not good for the economy, making ad in game and buying zen with it is not what Cryptic wants. It is not bringing anything to the table. So it had to be changed.
Now, you farm the dungeon for the standard salvage price. You do get something but it is not a variable huge amount you would get before. Today's motto, if you need AD, go VT.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I do not think there is a chance to get +4 rings and legendary rings with that kind of score? Or am i wrong?
Someone in my guild claimed to have gotten a +5 from a bronze finish...so who knows.
Hm , i got 1 legendary ring of defense +5 , after 50 + runs, of 3 golds. I am more lucky then some of my guild mates, since i as a cleric got 6 or 7 of +4 rings and the first time i ran Edemo i got an off- hand. So it reduced the time i had to spend, grinding Edemo for the main hand. One of my guild mates tried to calculate the chances based on the classes. But i did not hear of anyone getting a legendary from bronze. Actually , the amount of players from my guild who has 100 active players, is maybe 4 %. Including me. If this is true i will let know my guild mates to relax a bit. Since it started to be like a job. XD Edemo runs make even the most relaxing players lose their nerves. lolz
Me too. Glad I didn't go VIP. Just level to 70, say "I won", go do something else. Cost of Neverwinter Online to me : free.
Hey it's their own damn fault I'm not paying them. I don't feel bad AT ALL.
3/3/16 Still saving money. I consider this an all or nothing issue, personally. I will happily financially participate in this game (because I love it) again when they back down from this non-sense. Until then I'll log in and get my keys till my VIP runs out and spend my money elsewhere.
I'm very irritated by this, it is insanely insulting. Leveled to 12 VIP for keys and bars and now I can't progress my gems without now spending more money, if that isn't a slap in my face then I don't know what is.
Yeah I know, I could grind all day and all night and play the AD for Zen game but I work 2 jobs so count me out of that. It's the principle.
Hint: Not only have they not responded, they have not read a single post in this thread. They are very very busy writing code, designing art, and filing stuff in those rickety metal file cabinets that are found in every office that don't quite ever open or close just right.
It is grueling, thankless work that is not alleviated by reading 20000 posts about how they are HAMSTER everything up.
But your fellow players are reading... got anything to add?
Yes... for those poor overworked souls.... how many reported bugs on preview will make it to live?
All of them. And let's not forget all the useless/bugged heroic feats and pointless/bugged paragon feats found in every single class, the rampant disregard for accuracy in many important tooltips, and just so much more left over from previous game versions -- some since beta.
This is what happens when you don't have priorities straight AND give 3 people the work of 30 to do. They could be the very best game programmers/artists in the world and this is what is going to happen. The fun part is that there is nothing anyone can do except for whoever is calling the shots in development, and it's probably some guy who doesn't even play this game. I mean, based on the evidence here... what else could explain what has happened since 2013? Can they just not afford to get more people? Maybe they are just broke. I have no idea.
Can they just not afford to get more people? Maybe they are just broke. I have no idea.
At one point they could have afforded talent to keep the game going, but PWE decided the game wasn't worth keeping around so put it in it's Pump and Dump pile to wring as much cash from the poor souls too attached or too new to know what's going on before they turn out the lights and try to talk you into NWO2.
Hint: Not only have they not responded, they have not read a single post in this thread. They are very very busy writing code, designing art, and filing stuff in those rickety metal file cabinets that are found in every office that don't quite ever open or close just right.
They are definitely reading this thread. However, as with any MMO, they are not going to exactly jump into the middle of a pool of sharks.
They know this is an unpopular change but step back and put yourselves into the shoes of the developers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the only thing that will make most of you happy is to say they are just going to completely revert the change... If they say anything other than that they are just going to get bitten.
So instead they read the hate mail, look at the in house data and refrain from making any comments until they decide upon a course of action going forward. They won't even hint at what course of actions they are considering in house until a definitive decision is made as any response in here other than they are monitoring the feedback will be taken as promissory.
They are not going to say no or yes to reverting the change until they decide. That doesn't mean they are not reading.
So instead they read the hate mail, look at the in house data and refrain from making any comments until they decide upon a course of action going forward. They won't even hint at what course of actions they are considering in house until a definitive decision is made as any response in here other than they are monitoring the feedback will be taken as promissory.
unless you play on xbox in which case they'll tell you about after it's all said and done.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
It happens both ways. In fact very often the PC players end up with changes first.
Truthfully, there's virtually no difference when there is a "warning" of a change in virtually all circumstances. Regardless of when something is announced there is always going to be somebody who did something the day before the announcement.
In fact there was somebody who proved me quite right last month when the mount training tomes were removed. Even with all the "warning" that was given due to the removal of the tomes there was still somebody that complained they bought them the day before they were removed.
There's no way around it. Somebody will always end up doing something right before a change which will give them an advantage or disadvantage. There has to be some philosophical law like Murphey's Law for such situuations.
But still, a valiant try. You just forgot that there are other people who have been around for a while, too.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter if they read the forums or not. How would that possibly make anything better? They aren't going to make design decisions based on player input, or they would have done it at some point before now. Perhaps it's best you just let this one go, Ambi.
But still... a nice effort. I appreciate the sentiment, and your ardor for maintaining the status quo. It serves you well.
Simple question: Why is it the nuclear option that gets picked everytime rather than a part solution??
Why not to make these items in the T-Bar store BtA first before removing them? Why not reverse the price drop?
Either/or could have been done and "research" conducted. I'm using research sarcastically because I suspect it's the effect on Zen Store cashflow and not the economy or customer feedback
Also, good job on releasing the State of the Game address at this time to divert attention from this single issue. Slowed down additions to this discussion certainly.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I don't believe it. I know for a fact they do read the forums and this thread. They won't make decisions they feel are bad for the game because of player opinion, though.
I don't expect them to overturn the decision. At all. But that doesn't mean they don't read and consider the feedback. Listening and considering feedback is not synonymous with doing exactly what the players say/want.
So yeah, I have been here too. They're not going to revert a change the players don't like just because they don't like it. Part of being a game developer is making the hard decisions that will make people unhappy for the benefit of the game.
Again I don't agree with this change. I think it makes the cost of enchantments way too high and I don't think there are other viable alternatives to get coalescence wards. But I can count the direct changes to existing services they have changed made which I didn't agree with on one hand. Most of the times players get too caught up in not wanting their toys removed to consider the big picture. Most times the devs make changes to existing services for the benefit of the entire player base in the long term.
Sorry, you're free to think whatever you want of me. It doesn't bother me at all really but I have no problem saying when I disagree with something. When I agree with the developers it is because they are in the right. When I agree with the players I would rather seek a compromise than to demand something that won't happen.
I don't believe it. I know for a fact they do read the forums and this thread. They won't make decisions they feel are bad for the game because of player opinion, though.
* Foundry. * Bugs. Reported by the dozens, not addressed. Some existing since beta. * Useless or Exploitable Feats/Powers with oddly potent or non-functional synergies. Reported en masse, ignored.
Shall I continue?
Yeah, they are listening. It's just that fixing these things would be detrimental to the game. (insert amazingly huge and catastrophically precise eye roll)
Perhaps it's best you just let this one go, Ambi. Not trying to be overly snarky to you here, but you're kinda taking an indefensible position. Your heart is in the right place, at least. No one can fault you for that.
As a 1-year VIP purchaser, I'm unhappy with the change as well (probably in the lower-middle of the "hair-on-fire" spectrum though), but after 34 pages, has anyone brought up the idea of removing the duplicate enchant required for upgrading rank 1-9 enchants? It's an older idea. No one needs rank 12/trans anything, but having a realistic path to rank 10/perfect would make things much more beginner and alt friendly. It would make shards -> perfect enchants 4 shards and 4 coals away, instead of 32 shards and 14 coals. I would gleefully give up TB coals in exchange for that. Then (and only then), they might actually be worth the $8-$10 they insist upon.
Any improvements with real positive impact for players in the XP department? Or the foundry department? Or the (r)AD department? Or the ViP department? Or the Stronghold department? ... Or now the Trade Bars Store?
And i don't see any problem in taking this change back either, since they have no problem with admitting mistakes, and then act really fast on those in some cases. Add to that, how this change started on the Xbox side, and that they send out another round of gifts to some Xbox players without any reasonable explanation... And the silence isn't making this whole mess any better.
They created this "shark pool" on their own, now they can "swim" in it.
to answer on epic demo, i get 1silver/2gold, and there isnt any twisty anywhere, i have heard that you can get on 1s/2g, and other said it is broken, they have not got any ichors even with 3/g, and some are reporting.
Yesterday we did guild Edemo, 4 runs / 2 guild parties. We where supposed to have 3 phases- all gold, however the second phase is bugged again. Even with enough time remaining in the second phase for the gold , it shows silver rank. No matter what you do, how many portals you hit or how fast you kill it, it is still silver. I do not think there is a chance to get +4 rings and legendary rings with that kind of score? Or am i wrong?
The second phase is bugged if you kill Goristro when he's about to charge.
The quality of rings is not affected by your rank; getting gold only guarantees that a ring will drop. You can get a +5 if you get bronze and the only thing in the chest affected by rank is the amount of twisted ichor.
to answer on epic demo, i get 1silver/2gold, and there isnt any twisty anywhere, i have heard that you can get on 1s/2g, and other said it is broken, they have not got any ichors even with 3/g, and some are reporting.
That's a load. I did 12 guild runs of emo on saturday and got twisted ichor every time I accepted the chest rewards.
I didn't like the ward change, but after enough consideration, I have found explanations for it that make sense. I can deal with that (and am sufficiently familiar with the psychological literature on perception of loss to recognize it in my own reactions).
I don't like when people lie to my face. "The wards were removed because they were causing confusion..." I am sure there's a technical viewpoint that makes this a non-lie...something like, "the board doesn't understand why Cryptic would offer their highest retail item as a perk to RMR customers." But even this kind of very-specific truth is unsatisfying when intentionally used as a misdirection. I was just hoping for a "yeah, that was total BS...here's what really went down" response...but alas.
I totally agree w/ Ambi that there is no possible response that will elicit anything but a 'bite'.
I totally agree w/ Ambi that there is no possible response that will elicit anything but a 'bite'.
I agree too. The devs aren't going to respond in this thread. But I have to point out that even if we grant that the devs might actually be listening to us (MAN that was hard to type with a straight face), the fact that they can't communicate with us without catching hell immediately maybe should set off some alarm bells.
I bet there's games out there where players and developers have a healthy relationship that benefits both of them.
Comments
Hey it's their own damn fault I'm not paying them. I don't feel bad AT ALL.
Also 4 very big AD sinks were introduced around the same time as the leadership AD nerf. VIP, Strongholds, many 2xRP weekends(people in-fluxing more zen for AD to get cheap RP), reduction in cost on wards (people could/would spend more AD on micro transactions like RP instead of macro transactions like wards).
BTW the leadership AD ability existed since the start of the game but did not gain wide popularity until two things happened.
1) the new expensive RP system was introduced with the enchant rework/artifact introductions followed later by artifact equipment introduction
2) People could no longer make AD by selling dungeon dropped items on the AH. Once upon a time there was a healthy economy that existed around players farming dungeons for gear and selling the gear on the AH to players who transferred zen to AD. That's right you could make AD by playing the game in amounts larger than the daily refinement threshold
There are people who enjoy professions, but there are a lot more people who would rather earn the AD in game via achievement.
Or is it just the removal of the Coals/Pres/Rubies, and that's the end of this?
Or what about
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212899/wards-are-being-given-out-again
any official explanation for this?
We where supposed to have 3 phases- all gold, however the second phase is bugged again.
Even with enough time remaining in the second phase for the gold , it shows silver rank.
No matter what you do, how many portals you hit or how fast you kill it, it is still silver.
I do not think there is a chance to get +4 rings and legendary rings with that kind of score? Or am i wrong?
Today's motto, if you need AD, go VT.
I am more lucky then some of my guild mates, since i as a cleric got 6 or 7 of +4 rings and the first time i ran Edemo i got an off- hand. So it reduced the time i had to spend, grinding Edemo for the main hand.
One of my guild mates tried to calculate the chances based on the classes.
But i did not hear of anyone getting a legendary from bronze. Actually , the amount of players from my guild who has 100 active players, is maybe 4 %. Including me.
If this is true i will let know my guild mates to relax a bit.
Since it started to be like a job. XD Edemo runs make even the most relaxing players lose their nerves. lolz
I'm very irritated by this, it is insanely insulting. Leveled to 12 VIP for keys and bars and now I can't progress my gems without now spending more money, if that isn't a slap in my face then I don't know what is.
Yeah I know, I could grind all day and all night and play the AD for Zen game but I work 2 jobs so count me out of that. It's the principle.
It is grueling, thankless work that is not alleviated by reading 20000 posts about how they are HAMSTER everything up.
But your fellow players are reading... got anything to add?
This is what happens when you don't have priorities straight AND give 3 people the work of 30 to do. They could be the very best game programmers/artists in the world and this is what is going to happen. The fun part is that there is nothing anyone can do except for whoever is calling the shots in development, and it's probably some guy who doesn't even play this game. I mean, based on the evidence here... what else could explain what has happened since 2013? Can they just not afford to get more people? Maybe they are just broke. I have no idea.
They know this is an unpopular change but step back and put yourselves into the shoes of the developers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the only thing that will make most of you happy is to say they are just going to completely revert the change...
If they say anything other than that they are just going to get bitten.
So instead they read the hate mail, look at the in house data and refrain from making any comments until they decide upon a course of action going forward. They won't even hint at what course of actions they are considering in house until a definitive decision is made as any response in here other than they are monitoring the feedback will be taken as promissory.
They are not going to say no or yes to reverting the change until they decide. That doesn't mean they are not reading.
Truthfully, there's virtually no difference when there is a "warning" of a change in virtually all circumstances. Regardless of when something is announced there is always going to be somebody who did something the day before the announcement.
In fact there was somebody who proved me quite right last month when the mount training tomes were removed. Even with all the "warning" that was given due to the removal of the tomes there was still somebody that complained they bought them the day before they were removed.
There's no way around it. Somebody will always end up doing something right before a change which will give them an advantage or disadvantage. There has to be some philosophical law like Murphey's Law for such situuations.
Come on, dude. Even YOU don't believe that.
But still, a valiant try. You just forgot that there are other people who have been around for a while, too.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter if they read the forums or not. How would that possibly make anything better? They aren't going to make design decisions based on player input, or they would have done it at some point before now. Perhaps it's best you just let this one go, Ambi.
But still... a nice effort. I appreciate the sentiment, and your ardor for maintaining the status quo. It serves you well.
Why not to make these items in the T-Bar store BtA first before removing them?
Why not reverse the price drop?
Either/or could have been done and "research" conducted. I'm using research sarcastically because I suspect it's the effect on Zen Store cashflow and not the economy or customer feedback
Also, good job on releasing the State of the Game address at this time to divert attention from this single issue. Slowed down additions to this discussion certainly.
They won't make decisions they feel are bad for the game because of player opinion, though.
I don't expect them to overturn the decision. At all. But that doesn't mean they don't read and consider the feedback. Listening and considering feedback is not synonymous with doing exactly what the players say/want.
So yeah, I have been here too. They're not going to revert a change the players don't like just because they don't like it. Part of being a game developer is making the hard decisions that will make people unhappy for the benefit of the game.
Again I don't agree with this change. I think it makes the cost of enchantments way too high and I don't think there are other viable alternatives to get coalescence wards. But I can count the direct changes to existing services they have changed made which I didn't agree with on one hand. Most of the times players get too caught up in not wanting their toys removed to consider the big picture. Most times the devs make changes to existing services for the benefit of the entire player base in the long term.
Sorry, you're free to think whatever you want of me. It doesn't bother me at all really but I have no problem saying when I disagree with something. When I agree with the developers it is because they are in the right. When I agree with the players I would rather seek a compromise than to demand something that won't happen.
* Bugs. Reported by the dozens, not addressed. Some existing since beta.
* Useless or Exploitable Feats/Powers with oddly potent or non-functional synergies. Reported en masse, ignored.
Shall I continue?
Yeah, they are listening. It's just that fixing these things would be detrimental to the game.
(insert amazingly huge and catastrophically precise eye roll)
Perhaps it's best you just let this one go, Ambi. Not trying to be overly snarky to you here, but you're kinda taking an indefensible position. Your heart is in the right place, at least. No one can fault you for that.
4 more months, and that thread is sitting there in the feedback forum for a full year.
And what player feedback was really considered and then implemented within that time?
Any improvements with real positive impact for players in the XP department?
Or the foundry department?
Or the (r)AD department?
Or the ViP department?
Or the Stronghold department?
...
Or now the Trade Bars Store?
And i don't see any problem in taking this change back either, since they have no problem with admitting mistakes, and then act really fast on those in some cases.
Add to that, how this change started on the Xbox side, and that they send out another round of gifts to some Xbox players without any reasonable explanation...
And the silence isn't making this whole mess any better.
They created this "shark pool" on their own, now they can "swim" in it.
The quality of rings is not affected by your rank; getting gold only guarantees that a ring will drop. You can get a +5 if you get bronze and the only thing in the chest affected by rank is the amount of twisted ichor.
That's a load. I did 12 guild runs of emo on saturday and got twisted ichor every time I accepted the chest rewards.
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
I don't like when people lie to my face. "The wards were removed because they were causing confusion..."
I am sure there's a technical viewpoint that makes this a non-lie...something like, "the board doesn't understand why Cryptic would offer their highest retail item as a perk to RMR customers." But even this kind of very-specific truth is unsatisfying when intentionally used as a misdirection. I was just hoping for a "yeah, that was total BS...here's what really went down" response...but alas.
I totally agree w/ Ambi that there is no possible response that will elicit anything but a 'bite'.
I bet there's games out there where players and developers have a healthy relationship that benefits both of them.