I bet there's games out there where players and developers have a healthy relationship that benefits both of them.
I don't know. Players can be ravenous. I think the average observes about as much decorum as the average internet-commenter.
Other genres they exist. F2P MMORPGS, they are quite the rarity.
Edit: For example when Valve updated CS GO with the R8 revolver over this past winter. It was utterly apparent it was some type of 1 shot sniper rifle pistol, people didnt like that. They voiced their opinion with 1000 reply angry topics on reddit. Within a week, 2 max, they fixed it; and the players voiced with 1000 reply topics how happy they were.
My opinion why this two way communication doesnt work so well in F2P MMORPGs, the basic mechanics of the game (genre) (refine system, mount system, leveling etc etc etc); are viewed basically as monetization methods. Any change that would cause a loss in revenue in these systems, they will very reluctantly if at all (here, never) change them. But anyway to increase monies on these systems, they do with little thought to the playerbase.
I bet there's games out there where players and developers have a healthy relationship that benefits both of them.
I don't know. Players can be ravenous. I think the average observes about as much decorum as the average internet-commenter.
Other genres they exist. F2P MMORPGS, they are quite the rarity.
Edit: For example when Valve updated CS GO with the R8 revolver over this past winter. It was utterly apparent it was some type of 1 shot sniper rifle pistol, people didnt like that. They voiced their opinion with 1000 reply angry topics on reddit. Within a week, 2 max, they fixed it; and the players voiced with 1000 reply topics how happy they were.
My opinion why this two way communication doesnt work so well in F2P MMORPGs, the basic mechanics of the game (genre) (refine system, mount system, leveling etc etc etc); are viewed basically as monetization methods. Any change that would cause a loss in revenue in these systems, they will very reluctantly if at all (here, never) change them. But anyway to increase monies on these systems, they do with little thought to the playerbase.
You know... i think 90 % of the forum does not expect an answer ,in here. And that is okay. We do realize what ever they say or post is going to be like feeding a deadly snake with your bare hands while the mouse you feed it with, is dead. Your hand looks very yummy, to the said snake. All the blood flowing through it, and all the warmth it emits..
But even if they do not reply on the questions raised here, they could at least post a vague answer.
Something like : " We are reading this thread , we will not reply on any questions raised here, since it is against the rules, or something and we will continue to read this. The end. "
It would make at least some of the player base , ease down. Since at least they are listening to our concerns. We would think that at least they are around, reading all we wrote. It is an effect that could do good in the " communication with the community " area. Really.
O no. Im not expecting a post here from them haha. Their "state of the game" post was pretty much their reply here.
It's just unfortunate the whole communication/feedback thing is something they keep repeating but it never much shows by their actions.
The "does the vorpal work" thread Ive seen in both the xbox and the pc forums, with no definite answer from a dev makes you wonder if they can even post in the general sections. A easy clarification from them would clear up any uncertainty about that item, but ive never seen one from them. It's just like, "yah spend 4 monthes farming, or spend $100 (whatever the AD=$$ conversion is); but we wont tell you if it actually works... have fun!!!"
edit: the "does the vorpal work" is just shortening it. I know what that topic is about btw.
The PC topic on it, is too far back and i dont feel like digging; but still nothing from an actual dev on one of the most expensive or time consuming to construct items in the game. odd
I bet there's games out there where players and developers have a healthy relationship that benefits both of them.
I don't know. Players can be ravenous. I think the average player observes about as much decorum as the average internet-commenter.
Yes players will be harsh, we will flame and want everything to be free with new content every week and 100% pvp/pve balance but can you blame us for that
It is a relationship, and not a love one - it's the relationship between two business partners - the game creators who try to make a living of the game and the gamers who try to get maximum fun for free.
It is a relationship where both sides give - players via ZEN and developers via Content and each little negative change (and this change was anything but little and negative in player's eyes ) will be discussed harshly. Each positive change will be valued via Purchases - yes if the game is thrieving with content, fun to play places and things to do more people will care less about c.wards and more about their new mounts/outfits from the zen store.
At this point the relationship is at a stalemate, the one side changes the terms for the worse and ignores (as far as actions and comments go) the other partner. The other side has two options - complain here - or simply find fun elsewhere, for the part of us who still like the game (or the skeleton behind it) the forum and this topic is the only option to comment and express the reaction to a big negative change.
And you can't blame people that are pointing out bugs for months without even getting back a comment for being not A+ O.K
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
At this time, I'm sure you guys are aware the devs have been working nonstop on The Maze Engine - they're pretty active on Preview. Even the devs who work on live issues like Terramak need to be on board since we're so close to launch. I'm not sure if my word will be enough for you guys, but rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread. As I said in the initial post, it takes time for things to change and stabilize and we can't act unless it does so. If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
Call me Andy (or Strum, or Spider-Man)! Follow Neverwinter on Twitter: NeverwinterGame Like Neverwinter on Facebook: Neverwinter Follow me on Twitter: StrumSlinger
I hope we can at least get the green wards put back. All of the progress in making the economy work for everyone is being lost, Zen is even creeping back up to 500 to 1.
That has happened with every new module. After a few days in the module Zen exchange goes back to normal state.
0
andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
I hope we can at least get the green wards put back. All of the progress in making the economy work for everyone is being lost, Zen is even creeping back up to 500 to 1.
At this time, I'm sure you guys are aware the devs have been working nonstop on The Maze Engine - they're pretty active on Preview. Even the devs who work on live issues like Terramak need to be on board since we're so close to launch. I'm not sure if my word will be enough for you guys, but rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread. As I said in the initial post, it takes time for things to change and stabilize and we can't act unless it does so. If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
Put it back account bound. It's better than not having it at all.
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Personally, I'd be happy with the coal wards being back at 200 trade bars each and account bound. Just as long as they are back. So hard to upgrade my enchants again.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
At this time, I'm sure you guys are aware the devs have been working nonstop on The Maze Engine - they're pretty active on Preview. Even the devs who work on live issues like Terramak need to be on board since we're so close to launch. I'm not sure if my word will be enough for you guys, but rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread. As I said in the initial post, it takes time for things to change and stabilize and we can't act unless it does so. If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
It's just hard to swallow the "it takes time" bit. It took no time to take them away and certainly no time was spent coming up with a better solution than that. If by waiting to see how things settle you are waiting to see how many active players you lose by continuing anti player actions, I fail to see the logic. I think the sentiment here is that there wasn't an issue on PC, but there was so much crying on the xbox side where you initially did it that you felt it necessary to do it on PC to create a sense of parity even though you time and again speak of the different economies and that there doesn't need to be any parity. The people making decisions should really think them through more carefully before doing things that stand to do great harm to the community. The ties between community good will and the PWE/Cryptic bottom line just can't be ignored.
I don't know why strum bothered. Yeah, the dev team is busy doing other stuff. We complainers have been saying that forever. Strum even said they CAN'T do anything until the economy changes/stabilizes. Which translates very firmly to: "player input on the forums doesn't matter."
I'd like to think that the devs might actually be reading threads like this, but I have to wonder why. It's not like it's going to change anything or help. Which is why I thought that devs must NOT be reading threads like this. Or the forums at all, really. Why waste the time? Y'all are going to do what you're going to do with the game -- which is fine, this is your game to make.
*SNIP* I'd like to think that the devs might actually be reading threads like this, but I have to wonder why. It's not like it's going to change anything or help. Which is why I thought that devs must NOT be reading threads like this.
Strum was careful in his wording.
rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread
The devs are NOT reading the thread, only him (CM and likely only skimming) and the mods (cuz they have to prune the more extreme hate). Thinking that your voice is heard at all by the ones making decisions would be unwise.
if the game is thrieving with content, fun to play places and things to do more people will care less about c.wards and more about their new mounts/outfits from the zen store.
That is a point that has received too little attention. Why did the change to the wards matter so much? Because the end-game is designed around farming gear. The tradebar change said "your next inch will take you another 6mo".
On the other side, running contests/events/etc., or publishing new content is _way_ more expensive than just adding a new rare drop to an existing dungeon...so I know why it becomes "farmville" after lvl 70.
If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
Got to appreciate Tyr offering his hand to Fenrir.
At this time, I'm sure you guys are aware the devs have been working nonstop on The Maze Engine - they're pretty active on Preview. Even the devs who work on live issues like Terramak need to be on board since we're so close to launch. I'm not sure if my word will be enough for you guys, but rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread. As I said in the initial post, it takes time for things to change and stabilize and we can't act unless it does so. If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
null null Thank you for what exactly, what are we all supposed to appreciate? Doesn't look like he has said anything is going to change to me, here or on The XBOX where it hit us first?
It is a pleasure to greet you and congratulate you on your first post in the forums. I am sure we will see lots of feedback from you in the future too.
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
Does whoever is in charge of NWO really want to push the players to the point, where they draw the conclusion, that it is better to not spend any more money, since anything can change to the disfavor of the player from one update to another?
That's exactly it. I was days away from extending my VIP from 3 to 12 and then they made this change. No way at ALL you'll catch me spending money on this game now due to nothing else than complete and utter uncertainty about ensuring that I'm actually getting what I'm paying for.
Keys>Tarm Bars>Coal Wards was the main reason for VIP for me. It was the ONLY thing in the game I was willing to pay for because it helped me plan the grind, allowed me a path forward on my alts and finally enabled me to start pimping my main.
Now without coal wards to advance my enchants? It's once again a pointless grind without foreseeable progress. And that's a job. That's not fun. I'd rather find another game to play that doesn't stonewall me like that or pull the rug out to the detriment of the game and the player base.
yetweallfalldown clearly stated "Coalescent Wards WILL NOT be leaving the stores and pricing WILL NOT increase."
That right there is a PROMISE! It doesn't matter if it was a response to question, it doesn't matter if it was 6 months ago. That is an EMPHATIC statement that they are here too stay.
Exactly. And it was a few days after that announcement was made that I bought my first VIP due to perceived value. I paid money under the impression that what we were being told wasn't just a ruse to get my money and then pull the rug. Once bitten, never again.
Comments
Edit: For example when Valve updated CS GO with the R8 revolver over this past winter. It was utterly apparent it was some type of 1 shot sniper rifle pistol, people didnt like that. They voiced their opinion with 1000 reply angry topics on reddit. Within a week, 2 max, they fixed it; and the players voiced with 1000 reply topics how happy they were.
My opinion why this two way communication doesnt work so well in F2P MMORPGs, the basic mechanics of the game (genre) (refine system, mount system, leveling etc etc etc); are viewed basically as monetization methods. Any change that would cause a loss in revenue in these systems, they will very reluctantly if at all (here, never) change them. But anyway to increase monies on these systems, they do with little thought to the playerbase.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
And that is okay.
We do realize what ever they say or post is going to be like feeding a deadly snake with your bare hands while the mouse you feed it with, is dead. Your hand looks very yummy, to the said snake. All the blood flowing through it, and all the warmth it emits..
But even if they do not reply on the questions raised here, they could at least post a vague answer.
Something like : " We are reading this thread , we will not reply on any questions raised here, since it is against the rules, or something and we will continue to read this. The end. "
It would make at least some of the player base , ease down. Since at least they are listening to our concerns.
We would think that at least they are around, reading all we wrote. It is an effect that could do good in the " communication with the community " area. Really.
It's just unfortunate the whole communication/feedback thing is something they keep repeating but it never much shows by their actions.
The "does the vorpal work" thread Ive seen in both the xbox and the pc forums, with no definite answer from a dev makes you wonder if they can even post in the general sections. A easy clarification from them would clear up any uncertainty about that item, but ive never seen one from them. It's just like, "yah spend 4 monthes farming, or spend $100 (whatever the AD=$$ conversion is); but we wont tell you if it actually works... have fun!!!"
edit: the "does the vorpal work" is just shortening it. I know what that topic is about btw.
Here's the xbox forum one http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212262/transcendent-vorpal
The PC topic on it, is too far back and i dont feel like digging; but still nothing from an actual dev on one of the most expensive or time consuming to construct items in the game. odd
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
but can you blame us for that
It is a relationship, and not a love one - it's the relationship between two business partners - the game creators who try to make a living of the game and the gamers who try to get maximum fun for free.
It is a relationship where both sides give - players via ZEN and developers via Content and each little negative change (and this change was anything but little and negative in player's eyes ) will be discussed harshly.
Each positive change will be valued via Purchases - yes if the game is thrieving with content, fun to play places and things to do more people will care less about c.wards and more about their new mounts/outfits from the zen store.
At this point the relationship is at a stalemate, the one side changes the terms for the worse and ignores (as far as actions and comments go) the other partner. The other side has two options - complain here - or simply find fun elsewhere, for the part of us who still like the game (or the skeleton behind it) the forum and this topic is the only option to comment and express the reaction to a big negative change.
And you can't blame people that are pointing out bugs for months without even getting back a comment for being not A+ O.K
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
I am happy with the progress
I'm not sure if my word will be enough for you guys, but rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread. As I said in the initial post, it takes time for things to change and stabilize and we can't act unless it does so. If you're looking for a "we're reading this" response, here it is. If you're looking for action, we don't currently have an update as we wait for things to settle more.
Call me Andy (or Strum, or Spider-Man)!
Follow Neverwinter on Twitter: NeverwinterGame
Like Neverwinter on Facebook: Neverwinter
Follow me on Twitter: StrumSlinger
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I'd like to think that the devs might actually be reading threads like this, but I have to wonder why. It's not like it's going to change anything or help. Which is why I thought that devs must NOT be reading threads like this. Or the forums at all, really. Why waste the time? Y'all are going to do what you're going to do with the game -- which is fine, this is your game to make.
rest assured the mods and I are reading this thread
The devs are NOT reading the thread, only him (CM and likely only skimming) and the mods (cuz they have to prune the more extreme hate). Thinking that your voice is heard at all by the ones making decisions would be unwise.
On the other side, running contests/events/etc., or publishing new content is _way_ more expensive than just adding a new rare drop to an existing dungeon...so I know why it becomes "farmville" after lvl 70. Got to appreciate Tyr offering his hand to Fenrir.
We do appreciate it.
null
Thank you for what exactly, what are we all supposed to appreciate? Doesn't look like he has said anything is going to change to me, here or on The XBOX where it hit us first?
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
Keys>Tarm Bars>Coal Wards was the main reason for VIP for me. It was the ONLY thing in the game I was willing to pay for because it helped me plan the grind, allowed me a path forward on my alts and finally enabled me to start pimping my main.
Now without coal wards to advance my enchants? It's once again a pointless grind without foreseeable progress. And that's a job. That's not fun. I'd rather find another game to play that doesn't stonewall me like that or pull the rug out to the detriment of the game and the player base.