Even though I'm a true F2P player who has not spent a cent, I certainly hope Cryptic gets their act together to keep people playing. People with money specifically, or this nice MMO is going to go away.
I wonder if this stemmed from a line of thinking like: "Oh no, so many players at our non existent end-game! I know, let's prevent more players from getting there!" or if it was just "收更多的钱".
The upcoming Stronghold discounts better be huge so people have something to progress in, because character wise it's gonna slow down a lot. As for the VIP thing, they'll probably re-hook people by adding stuff like ... whatever is needed for the upcoming stables. Especially for the better looking / more powerful pets and/or pet gear. Need more gear grind you see, for people to use p.wards and coals on. =P
The only confusion that having coalescent wards both on zen and trade bar store was creating, was in your wallets.
Your greediness is only matched by the bravery of making such decisions on a game that is almost dead anyway.
hahaha EXACTLY!! Coal wards have been in both Tarm Bar and Zen store since LAUNCH! And now they're burning a MAIN reason why people are paying for VIP. You'd make more money by having dedicated player base paying VIP every month than the occasional casual player buying 1 or 2 wards in a year. I don't understand this from any perspective. It screws the players, it's stupid for the game.
Good lord people, no one forces you to spend a single penny on this game. Get over yourselves.
For those of you who have been playing "this game daily over the past several months [with characters] advancing at a slow and steady pace..." I just have to laugh. You could invoke from level 20 to level 60 in a couple of weeks and never leave Protector's Enclave.
This is a free to play game. The people who provide this game need to be paid. Stop whining, go play something else, or just don't spend the money.
You want to talk about really caustic disregard for paying customers, go look at SWTOR or any game by SONY. Cryptic/PWI have done well by me for over ten years and while I do not like most of the changes they've made it is THEIR product, they own it. We just rent it.
It is a game people.
You dummy. If you think "level 20 to level 60" is what people mean by "advancing." That represents first 0.10% of advancing your character. The game does not even start, you do not start advancing, until you hit 70 and begin to work on character advancement through gear, enchantments, and item level.
All of which rely on coalescent wards. Which means any real character advancement now has a hard gateway in cold hard cash. But not my cash. I will not be renewing VIP or paying a red cent for a ward. $10 is not worth endless Black Ice Master Packs. Gee, thanks VIP for my 40th grandmaster cryomancer. That does me a lot of good with still only one pair of gauntlets.
Well, I might pay for a ward if the price was actually reasonable. Right now they are 1000% overpriced.
If people want to be paid, they need to produce a product and/or service at a fair price. They also need to protect and nurture their customer base. How many of those things do you see happening?
Even if removing the wards from the trade bar store was, in some insane universe, the right thing to do... the way it was done was a HAMSTER move. And it wasn't even the right thing to do.
Good lord people, no one forces you to spend a single penny on this game. Get over yourselves.
For those of you who have been playing "this game daily over the past several months [with characters] advancing at a slow and steady pace..." I just have to laugh. You could invoke from level 20 to level 60 in a couple of weeks and never leave Protector's Enclave.
This is a free to play game. The people who provide this game need to be paid. Stop whining, go play something else, or just don't spend the money.
You want to talk about really caustic disregard for paying customers, go look at SWTOR or any game by SONY. Cryptic/PWI have done well by me for over ten years and while I do not like most of the changes they've made it is THEIR product, they own it. We just rent it.
It is a game people.
I'm really sorry, not everyone can spend 24hours infront of their PC invoking. You do realize most people commenting here are the ones who already spent.
Just look at the new prices, most f2p would quit b4 they could reach a normal ench. they keep doing this, this game is gonna die soon
I can't be surprised by the ineptitude of the decision making process that produces a drastic change like this. Nor can I be surprised by the completely bogus and insulting reasoning given for it. Before this change was even announced I was watching a recent Q&A session video where a producer and community manager were answering questions. Let's just say I wasn't impressed by the level of professionalism I was was witnessing. Maybe the lack of polish that I saw translates to other departments at Cryptic?
On another note, didn't this thread just jump from 18 pages down to 15? Here comes the censorship!
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
For those of you who have been playing "this game daily over the past several months [with characters] advancing at a slow and steady pace..." I just have to laugh. You could invoke from level 20 to level 60 in a couple of weeks and never leave Protector's Enclave.
They're talking about equipment advancement (much of which in in the form of items requiring at least preservation wards), not levelling up. Geez.
Just letting you know that I WON'T be renewing my VIP next week, thanks to this update. Great work!
Yeah, me neither. In fact I'm probably going to stop playing MMOs now. This is the 3rd time I invested time and money into a game only to have it go down the tubes and make it an unfriendly and stressful experience. Going back to regular games. Witcher 3 and Pillars of Eternity up next! F YOU NEVERWINTER!!!! You started out amazing and just got worse with every mod! Could have been the best MMO of all time!
0
viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
This thread just had 17 pages 20 mins aho and now it has 15 where did 2 full pages vanished?
0
dademon1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 21Arc User
I can't be surprised by the ineptitude of the decision making process that produces a drastic change like this. Nor can I be surprised by the completely bogus and insulting reasoning given for it. Before this change was even announced I was watching a recent Q&A session video where a producer and community manager were answering questions. Let's just say I wasn't impressed by the level of professionalism I was was witnessing. Maybe the lack of polish that I saw translates to other departments at Cryptic?
On another note, didn't this thread just jump from 18 pages down to 15? Here comes the censorship!
Exactly, and my last post saying exactly that is removed as well, kinda wondering what is so offensive about it, unless they don't want people to know there were WAY more complaints than before. Whats next? in a few hours only 2 pages are left?
I can't be surprised by the ineptitude of the decision making process that produces a drastic change like this. Nor can I be surprised by the completely bogus and insulting reasoning given for it. Before this change was even announced I was watching a recent Q&A session video where a producer and community manager were answering questions. Let's just say I wasn't impressed by the level of professionalism I was was witnessing. Maybe the lack of polish that I saw translates to other departments at Cryptic?
On another note, didn't this thread just jump from 18 pages down to 15? Here comes the censorship!
> @marsambassador said: > Here's a thought... If the Wards are causing economic issues with botters, make them BoA. Problem solved. > > > > This! A thousand times this!!!!
Yep, a simple solution to a gigantic mmo killing issue. Only problem is that's not why they made this change. They made it in an attempt to gain zen store purchases for wards, or at least that's the ONLY reason that logically makes sense. Funny thing is players were already using zen to purchase wards through the VIP system at reasonable rates (finally). How or why they expect ward sales to increase in the zen store now is beyond me, especially at literally $10 each, and when sales were weak before. If they don't reduce ward prices in the zen store drastically, and I'm talking down to $1 or $2 each which is where they should be using conventional f2p mmo logic, then forget advancing your character at a reasonable rate if you're even a semi-casual player.
This thread just had 17 pages 20 mins aho and now it has 15 where did 2 full pages vanished?
hahah Cryptic removes the unfavorable posts Now the changes are great no negative comments
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
well the entire thread is meaningless really. It really doesnt matter if they even allow to post, they are doing so to think you have some sort of voice.
But we dont, we either pay it their way or dont.. for content that is "miniscule"
Ive already said my piece ages ago. CWards directly out of the zen market are a "bad" deal and one of the most highly egregious "micro" transactions Ive seen. Blood wards are pretty close to the same as well.
I would say dont do either. When they offer VALUE, Ive bought it in the past, when it has little value, I dont bother.
Lets face it, they dont care about what we think.. they are directed to care about what the bosses say the profit has to be, they believe they are loosing profit, even though VIP program was set up for them to make a continuous profit , instead of spike sales, they seem to think they get to have "both" now.
I do believe that the program shouldve been allowed to continue for the duration of the first 12 month period of VIP though, as the initial purchase from users shouldve been covered on the original advertisement scheme they had in place. They could announce a future change instead.
All sorts of schims have been brought down the line over the years.. "in the name of the players" or "anti-bot" or " lets save the economy (cough in game?)
If they came out and said, folks, monetizing isnt working well on our end, sorry, but we need to pull some stuff back so we can make money.. they wouldve been equally derailed.
They cant really win either way.
But alas.. neither can we.
Frankly I dont care how they do it, if they just offered us some fun dungeon delves instead.. that what I care about the most.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
There are plenty of posts remaining. There are probably only as many posts in this thread saying they like the change as I have fingers... maybe.
What gets removed (not deleted, but moved to a subforum only mods and staff can see) is the flaming and "I quit" posts, and posts asking where the flaming and "I quit posts" went (for "discussing moderation"). Like it or not, that's how it goes.
And it's probably easier to prune everything into a single mod forum thread than to separate some of it there and some into the Lower Depths (which we can see).
I don't know, but I think they have been doing a lot of damage all a long. I noticed the chance of getting a good item from the boxes, has really dropped. I don't mean one of the high end items either, I just mean something that was actually useful. I used to get one good item, off from every $30.00 spent, it has taken $70.00 this last time. So even buying the keys has not been very worth it.
I noticed that as well. I've been suspecting for some time that the chance of a really good drop from a lockbox is much higher on the first day that it's introduced than later on.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
This thread just had 17 pages 20 mins aho and now it has 15 where did 2 full pages vanished?
hahah Cryptic removes the unfavorable posts Now the changes are great no negative comments
Censorship is the easiest way not only to prove that there is a major issue with the recent measures but also to suppress the opinions of players who spent money in this game and now feel victims of injustice. At this point, why would I want to be a customer of a company that does this kind of stuff to its clients. I worked in the hospitality business for many years. I've been a concierge at fancy hotels and I will tell you this. A loyal customer comes back to spend more and usually brings his friends along to do the same. An unsatisfied customer however, rants in forums like this one when disservice is offered instead of what we paid for.
The only good thing VIP ever did for me was to memorize where every freaking trap was on every freaking dungeon before I finally said screw it and got it so I could run through them all and not care. I know they added the injuries to make people want to use VIP and they got me. Sure, I didn't spend real money as I'd be crazy to give them a dime. But to think they would give us anything in return for the hours/money/patience/frustration we have given them of ours.... is kinda crazy in itself.
You guys do realize the one thing PVE players have said for going on like 7 months was they just wanted those old dungeons back and they came back as Demonic HE portal fests that we can level up with.... If anyone thinks they listen to anything we say... Well I'm sorry but that lollipop isn't on the shelf. The devs aren't the monsters. Forum mods maybe but they have to do this b/c I'm sure they get an earful if they don't. But these devs do what they are told, it is that simple.
If you think Strum wrote that post and agreed with any of it that the economy was suffering... wow. The guy is not "special" in that sense. If you think the devs having every live stream photobombed by someone saying nerf pally bubble is ignored then again, I'm sorry. They know what they are doing is wrong.. THEY KNOW. But they don't have the power to do anything about it.
They are allowed to do band-aid fixes. They are allowed to do polls on the forums about which NPC is our favorite. They are not allowed to balance classes. They are not allowed to give us anything, that power being in the devs left the day Crush got here.
So again, devs/forum hall monitors. I'm sorry you guys get so much grief from all of us. I know from the bottom of my heart that you realize what you have to do on a daily basis is wrong, not fair and in some cases even cruel but it is your job. And I think a lot of them try and make the best of it.
0
coolgeek357Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 91Arc User
edited February 2016
Cost of making one Transcendent Epic Enchantment $310 using CWs. That means you will need to spend $620 for you armor and weapon enchantment if you buy your CWs from the Zen store. The error in the Cryptic's reasoning, nobody that was getting CWs through the trade store is going to buy them from the Zen store. However, they were buying keys and VIP to get trade bars.
The Brits have a saying for this, "penny wise, pound foolish"
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I have been playing for almost a year... and for the first time since I started playing the games economy had balance. Everything that you talked about happening when you took AD out of the Leadership prof... has been happening for the past 3 to 4 months. I am not sure of WHY you would do something like this... but it was done and you did it.
I have worked with a large number of clients who were their own worst nightmare/enemy. I also worked in a prison for a while... and I found out that every single inmate in there had suffered from the same issue. This is a conditioned response/ reaction that is done to protect a serious error in judgement.
That is usually the beginning of an argument for insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Considering that Cryptic is staffed by humans, owned by humans and financed by humans... I have one thing to say and I have said it before to those of you who work for Cryptic.
You want to make more money? You want happy investors? You want a happy board of directors? You want happy customers?
If that is the case... which I know it is... work on your UPOD instead of what you have been doing which is OPUD. Look it up.
Having recently spent a lot of time wandering around in online dating sites I see a similarity... to the way that you describe yourself and the game. You puff up and focus on all of the awesome things that this game is, BUT... you ignore the most important thing... the fact that you are omitting the whole truth.
I kno that you don't care if the game falls... that is your choices. You have successfully achieved what you wanted.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
What i find really astonishing, they have the tool for a solid revenue in place ViP but instead of cultivating and improving it, they ignore and even cripple it.
Not to mention, that it's even accepted by many players, and it even binds players to NWO. But they have no further plans for it? Unbelievable...
Just standard Cryptic practice: sell X, then later nerf it, then sell Y, etc. Loose some players from the nerf, try to get some new ones. It's easier to make new players happy, because to them, all the 'existing' content looks new and it's fun etc. Much more work to 'create' new stuff for existing players.
Eventually, the engine and animation will start to look old compared to OTHER products. That's when the game will really die. The only thing that can kill a F2P game is other games that offer more (looks, animation, immersion, etc).
However, the 'bait and switch' tactic that Cryptic continuously employs does put a bad stain on their name imo. Their name will be remembered, and their future offerings will suffer because of it... that's inevitable. Of course, they could then just bust up their company, move some people around, create a new name, and off they go. Or perhaps they don't plan on doing anything in the future? who knows. With Cryptic, caveat emptor.
MOD 6 was the beginning of the slippery slope downwards... nothing since has remotely brought this MMO back to the heady times of yesteryear. Fall on your sword and save anymore embarrassment, so glad i'm not funding this empty shell anymore.
There are plenty of posts remaining. There are probably only as many posts in this thread saying they like the change as I have fingers... maybe.
What gets removed (not deleted, but moved to a subforum only mods and staff can see) is the flaming and "I quit" posts, and posts asking where the flaming and "I quit posts" went (for "discussing moderation"). Like it or not, that's how it goes.
And it's probably easier to prune everything into a single mod forum thread than to separate some of it there and some into the Lower Depths (which we can see).
Yea, I wouldn't just jump on the 'its censorship!' fleet- cause if that's really the case then they are doing a HAMSTER job at hiding dissent that's right in front of them. Heck, there's still replies here telling Cryptic to eat a d***, demanding that a dev be shot, for an open boycott of the game, etc..
I hate the CWard change too, guys, but let's not be inane.
I do, however, suspect that many players are googling "Most Anticipated MMORPGs in 2016" and wondering where to go next.
"404 Error: Page Not Found" is what returned from the search. Keep "anticipating" your dream mmorpgs like what you anticipated from Santa Claus every Christmas or just the Second Coming of Jesus. Players just keep anticipating and whining about EVERY mmorpg but they are not going anywhere since they have NOWHERE to go.
Of course, this game is getting more and more expensive to play but if you did not anticipate it since the "Stronghold" update, you have not played enough of this kind of best-guilds-or-bust games. More payment and less content are all you should have anticipated. So, don't whine if you embraced such game features. However, TBH, Cryptic did acknowledge today's changes weeks ago and they even handed out free wards, rubies and such even they did not have to. This is far more honest than "new mmorpgs" like the one it advertised itself as "Buy-to-play. No Cash Shop at launch" but in reality "no cash shop at launch" only means "LOL@all you suckers. Buy to play actually means cash shop + you paid more for the box. No cash shop at launch means cash shop starts 7 days after launch. Again, LOL@all you suckers!!!"
Comments
I wonder if this stemmed from a line of thinking like: "Oh no, so many players at our non existent end-game! I know, let's prevent more players from getting there!" or if it was just "收更多的钱".
The upcoming Stronghold discounts better be huge so people have something to progress in, because character wise it's gonna slow down a lot. As for the VIP thing, they'll probably re-hook people by adding stuff like ... whatever is needed for the upcoming stables. Especially for the better looking / more powerful pets and/or pet gear. Need more gear grind you see, for people to use p.wards and coals on. =P
All of which rely on coalescent wards. Which means any real character advancement now has a hard gateway in cold hard cash. But not my cash. I will not be renewing VIP or paying a red cent for a ward. $10 is not worth endless Black Ice Master Packs. Gee, thanks VIP for my 40th grandmaster cryomancer. That does me a lot of good with still only one pair of gauntlets.
Well, I might pay for a ward if the price was actually reasonable. Right now they are 1000% overpriced.
If people want to be paid, they need to produce a product and/or service at a fair price. They also need to protect and nurture their customer base. How many of those things do you see happening?
Even if removing the wards from the trade bar store was, in some insane universe, the right thing to do... the way it was done was a HAMSTER move. And it wasn't even the right thing to do.
Just look at the new prices, most f2p would quit b4 they could reach a normal ench. they keep doing this, this game is gonna die soon
On another note, didn't this thread just jump from 18 pages down to 15? Here comes the censorship!
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
FateSpinners Guild Leader We are RECRUITING!!
> Here's a thought... If the Wards are causing economic issues with botters, make them BoA. Problem solved.
>
>
>
> This! A thousand times this!!!!
Yep, a simple solution to a gigantic mmo killing issue. Only problem is that's not why they made this change. They made it in an attempt to gain zen store purchases for wards, or at least that's the ONLY reason that logically makes sense. Funny thing is players were already using zen to purchase wards through the VIP system at reasonable rates (finally). How or why they expect ward sales to increase in the zen store now is beyond me, especially at literally $10 each, and when sales were weak before. If they don't reduce ward prices in the zen store drastically, and I'm talking down to $1 or $2 each which is where they should be using conventional f2p mmo logic, then forget advancing your character at a reasonable rate if you're even a semi-casual player.
Now the changes are great no negative comments
But we dont, we either pay it their way or dont.. for content that is "miniscule"
Ive already said my piece ages ago. CWards directly out of the zen market are a "bad" deal and one of the most highly egregious "micro" transactions Ive seen. Blood wards are pretty close to the same as well.
I would say dont do either.
When they offer VALUE, Ive bought it in the past, when it has little value, I dont bother.
Lets face it, they dont care about what we think.. they are directed to care about what the bosses say the profit has to be, they believe they are loosing profit, even though VIP program was set up for them to make a continuous profit , instead of spike sales, they seem to think they get to have "both" now.
I do believe that the program shouldve been allowed to continue for the duration of the first 12 month period of VIP though, as the initial purchase from users shouldve been covered on the original advertisement scheme they had in place. They could announce a future change instead.
All sorts of schims have been brought down the line over the years.. "in the name of the players" or "anti-bot" or " lets save the economy (cough in game?)
If they came out and said, folks, monetizing isnt working well on our end, sorry, but we need to pull some stuff back so we can make money.. they wouldve been equally derailed.
They cant really win either way.
But alas.. neither can we.
Frankly I dont care how they do it, if they just offered us some fun dungeon delves instead.. that what I care about the most.
What gets removed (not deleted, but moved to a subforum only mods and staff can see) is the flaming and "I quit" posts, and posts asking where the flaming and "I quit posts" went (for "discussing moderation"). Like it or not, that's how it goes.
And it's probably easier to prune everything into a single mod forum thread than to separate some of it there and some into the Lower Depths (which we can see).
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Bad service is bad and enough is enough.
You guys do realize the one thing PVE players have said for going on like 7 months was they just wanted those old dungeons back and they came back as Demonic HE portal fests that we can level up with.... If anyone thinks they listen to anything we say... Well I'm sorry but that lollipop isn't on the shelf. The devs aren't the monsters. Forum mods maybe but they have to do this b/c I'm sure they get an earful if they don't. But these devs do what they are told, it is that simple.
If you think Strum wrote that post and agreed with any of it that the economy was suffering... wow. The guy is not "special" in that sense. If you think the devs having every live stream photobombed by someone saying nerf pally bubble is ignored then again, I'm sorry. They know what they are doing is wrong.. THEY KNOW. But they don't have the power to do anything about it.
They are allowed to do band-aid fixes. They are allowed to do polls on the forums about which NPC is our favorite. They are not allowed to balance classes. They are not allowed to give us anything, that power being in the devs left the day Crush got here.
So again, devs/forum hall monitors. I'm sorry you guys get so much grief from all of us. I know from the bottom of my heart that you realize what you have to do on a daily basis is wrong, not fair and in some cases even cruel but it is your job. And I think a lot of them try and make the best of it.
The Brits have a saying for this, "penny wise, pound foolish"
I have worked with a large number of clients who were their own worst nightmare/enemy. I also worked in a prison for a while... and I found out that every single inmate in there had suffered from the same issue. This is a conditioned response/ reaction that is done to protect a serious error in judgement.
That is usually the beginning of an argument for insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Considering that Cryptic is staffed by humans, owned by humans and financed by humans... I have one thing to say and I have said it before to those of you who work for Cryptic.
You want to make more money? You want happy investors? You want a happy board of directors? You want happy customers?
If that is the case... which I know it is... work on your UPOD instead of what you have been doing which is OPUD. Look it up.
Having recently spent a lot of time wandering around in online dating sites I see a similarity... to the way that you describe yourself and the game. You puff up and focus on all of the awesome things that this game is, BUT... you ignore the most important thing... the fact that you are omitting the whole truth.
I kno that you don't care if the game falls... that is your choices. You have successfully achieved what you wanted.
ViP
but instead of cultivating and improving it, they ignore and even cripple it.
Not to mention, that it's even accepted by many players, and it even binds players to NWO.
But they have no further plans for it?
Unbelievable...
Eventually, the engine and animation will start to look old compared to OTHER products. That's when the game will really die. The only thing that can kill a F2P game is other games that offer more (looks, animation, immersion, etc).
However, the 'bait and switch' tactic that Cryptic continuously employs does put a bad stain on their name imo. Their name will be remembered, and their future offerings will suffer because of it... that's inevitable. Of course, they could then just bust up their company, move some people around, create a new name, and off they go. Or perhaps they don't plan on doing anything in the future? who knows. With Cryptic, caveat emptor.
I hate the CWard change too, guys, but let's not be inane.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Of course, this game is getting more and more expensive to play but if you did not anticipate it since the "Stronghold" update, you have not played enough of this kind of best-guilds-or-bust games. More payment and less content are all you should have anticipated. So, don't whine if you embraced such game features. However, TBH, Cryptic did acknowledge today's changes weeks ago and they even handed out free wards, rubies and such even they did not have to. This is far more honest than "new mmorpgs" like the one it advertised itself as "Buy-to-play. No Cash Shop at launch" but in reality "no cash shop at launch" only means "LOL@all you suckers. Buy to play actually means cash shop + you paid more for the box. No cash shop at launch means cash shop starts 7 days after launch. Again, LOL@all you suckers!!!"
That is the sole reason they are doing this.