Ok then I challenge you to recruit 2k-2.5k players from LFG in PE 5 times and post a video of each run under PVE is too easy
Why should he?
If you make a claim, one should be able to substantiate it no? I argued earlier that it was so easy because he ran with a BiS team to which his reply was, there was a 2k guide in his signature, it follows that any 2k group should be able to finish easy content, I'm merely asking that he put this argument to bed with the aid of 4 pugs.
As my friends and I have got more or less bored due to how easy the game is, we have been inventing challenges for ourselves to get some fun out of the game. This is one of them I thought I would share with you, it illustrates how trivial content is at endgame. The challenge is to post a video of how fast you can kill the last boss in eCC. The rules are simple, you can use whatever gear you have and you are allowed to wipe as often as you like to get the fastest run you can. Here is our fastest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io6daJ98EJY
From when we engaged (after he finished his first bloodbath and entered drunken rage) to when he died was 8 seconds. Our Party composition was righteous DC (zoe), MoF CW (Me), SS ren (Freedom), buffer GF (littleknight) and GWF (Snoo Snoo).
Enjoy racing that
I have an objection to your thread title, PVE is too easy. I think you can guess what my objection is but as a hint to others, how many millions of AD have you spent in the last few weeks uprading your CW and how long do you think those starting eCC having just met the requirements will reach the level of gear employed by that group?
This is what its like with a well geared group, but if you want, look in my sig at the eCC guide to see what its like with a 2k group Hint: its still easy, it just takes ~10 minutes longer at the last boss.
Ok then I challenge you to recruit 2k-2.5k players from LFG in PE 5 times and post a video of each run under PVE is too easy
Depending on the expirience of the PuGs, this could be translated to 'solo eCC with 2k IL'. If ppl with bad equip and worse skill cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play.
He did clear it with 2k IL, so he has proven, that it is not difficult, if the party is well composed and the players know, how to play.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
We killed the eCC boss in about 30 seconds. Unfortunately I don't have a video. Setup: DC 3.7k - No damage GF 4k hybrid build no capstone SW 2.7K CW 2.4K TR 2.5K
This is a medium-to-high team compostion, but no OP, no old armor sets, no esoteric pets or enchantements, The CW even died once.
You don't need legendary items to do speed runs. Just the right buffs-debuffs: they are IL indipendent. That's why I agree with @asterotg: If people with worse skill/feats/team composition cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play. This forum is full of advices from experienced players to do speedruns. I read them and it works. You can recruit an OP for better survivability instead of a TR: the results would be the same. I did a speed run at egwd with a 2.1K OP: it took more or less 1.5 minute to kill the boss - we had an immune stage in the middle.
Speerun is not equal to full rk 12/mythic BiS players: this is something which is difficult to understand. What is a speedrun for high IL players, it's also a feasible way to complete T2 dungeon for low IL players: they will not kill the boss so fast, but they can do it as I did with my 2.4k warlock.
The CW had his first speedrun. At the end he asked:"How is it possible? Is it normal?". My answer was: "Yes it is, but if you expected a hard fight when you run an end game content, no..it's not normal":
With the same setup, we did eToS: it took few seconds less. Same fight&kill dynamic shown in the video from @thefabricant and @itbls.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
We killed the eCC boss in about 30 seconds. Unfortunately I don't have a video. Setup: DC 3.7k - No damage GF 4k hybrid build no capstone SW 2.7K CW 2.4K TR 2.5K
This is a medium-to-high team compostion, but no OP, no old armor sets, no esoteric pets or enchantements, The CW even died once.
You don't need legendary items to do speed runs. Just the right buffs-debuffs: they are IL indipendent. That's why I agree with @asterotg: If people with worse skill/feats/team composition cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play. This forum is full of advices from experienced players to do speedruns. I read them and it works. You can recruit an OP for better survivability instead of a TR: the results would be the same. I did a speed run at egwd with a 2.1K OP: it took more or less 1.5 minute to kill the boss - we had an immune stage in the middle.
Speerun is not equal to full rk 12/mythic BiS players: this is something which is difficult to understand.
The CW had his first speedrun. At the end he asked:"How is it possible? Is it normal?". My answer was: "Yes it is, but if you expected a hard fight when you run an end game content, no..it's not normal":
With the same setup, we did eToS: it took few seconds less. Same fight&kill dynamic shown in the video from @thefabricant and @itbls.
True, its got nothing to do with BiS, in those videos I am not BiS and neither is the GF or DC and whilst the sets (and BiS gear) are not necessary, they do make stuff burn faster (only slightly, but if you want the absolute fastest times you can get every second counts).
If people with worse skill/feats/team composition cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play.
No. Game is just too hard. Cryptic pls allows us to bug other bosses than ECC and I want to do solo run with 2k pls, thanks.
"How is it possible? Is it normal?". My answer was: "Yes it is, but if you expected a hard fight when you run an end game content, no..it's not normal"
This.
2 out of these 3 comments are ironic. I hope you get the right ones.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
If people with worse skill/feats/team composition cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play.
No. Game is just too hard. Cryptic pls allows us to bug other bosses than ECC and I want to do solo run with 2k pls, thanks.
"How is it possible? Is it normal?". My answer was: "Yes it is, but if you expected a hard fight when you run an end game content, no..it's not normal"
This.
2 out of these 3 comments are ironic. I hope you get the right ones.
The key [...] is TEAMWORK, not each player racing on dps by themselves. Rather then DPS racing, we were working together to ensure the team dps as a whole was at its absolute maximum.
It's so sad that so many people just don't get this.
Indeed. I was a complete ignorant about this. Teamwork, coordination and knowledge of the interactions between the powers/buff/debuff of each class are the key factors. I'm just a beginner from this point of view: in the past I've spent time to maximize my features and learnt nothing about this important part of the game. Now I can play my dc in a different way, slotting different powers and I'm sure that I can do better: still testing.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
What kind of spells do you use to apply HV in bossfights? I use shard on tab, repel and ice knife for HV stacks, RoE and CoI for further debuff and continous life leech and desintegrate for dmg.
I open with steal time, then reapply using icy terrain and oppressive. Due to how short the fight was, I chose to use ray of enfeeblement on tab. This was because the party could actually get the benefit out of the double applied debuff.
There was a trick to this battle though. We waited on applying most of our debuffs till after the bloodbath ended. This gave snoo the opportunity to get back from the barrel and it also means the debuffs were not wasted as he is immune during the bloodbath.
Surprised nobody has asked the obvious question yet though
I use steal time on trash. The animation is a little bit long for boss fights compared to repel, imo. I never checked if IT applies HV stacks, so I never used it in boss fights, good to know. Thanks for the answer.
@asterotg Icy terrain only applies 1 stack, but that doesn't matter, since you only need to apply all 3 once with steal time and then you can use icy terrain to refresh the stacks. Also, if you interrupt the steal time animation after 2 hits, it applies 3 stacks but it puts it on a 4 second cooldown rather then the full cooldown, which makes it a good ability for applying stacks. The real trick to making this fight as fast as possible is popping the barrel the moment you enter, which forces traven into drunken rage. When in drunken rage, traven deals 100% more damage but also takes 100% more damage for a period of ~10 seconds (15 or so if you include both bloodbaths). This means that you sacrifice a few seconds of time to pop the barrel, in order to gain a few more by having him take a lot more damage. I will say the fight can be done faster, we did not have a PF enchant as I had mine on another character at the time, neither did we all use buff potions and neither myself, the dc, or the GF are maxed out. If we were all BiS, rather then just freedom and snoo, we could probably cut off 2/3 more seconds.
the way you describe the trick is sounds exploit. Does traven gets 100% more damage always when you touch the barrel ? because if is only when you enter is exploit.
What kind of spells do you use to apply HV in bossfights? I use shard on tab, repel and ice knife for HV stacks, RoE and CoI for further debuff and continous life leech and desintegrate for dmg.
I open with steal time, then reapply using icy terrain and oppressive. Due to how short the fight was, I chose to use ray of enfeeblement on tab. This was because the party could actually get the benefit out of the double applied debuff.
There was a trick to this battle though. We waited on applying most of our debuffs till after the bloodbath ended. This gave snoo the opportunity to get back from the barrel and it also means the debuffs were not wasted as he is immune during the bloodbath.
Surprised nobody has asked the obvious question yet though
I use steal time on trash. The animation is a little bit long for boss fights compared to repel, imo. I never checked if IT applies HV stacks, so I never used it in boss fights, good to know. Thanks for the answer.
@asterotg Icy terrain only applies 1 stack, but that doesn't matter, since you only need to apply all 3 once with steal time and then you can use icy terrain to refresh the stacks. Also, if you interrupt the steal time animation after 2 hits, it applies 3 stacks but it puts it on a 4 second cooldown rather then the full cooldown, which makes it a good ability for applying stacks. The real trick to making this fight as fast as possible is popping the barrel the moment you enter, which forces traven into drunken rage. When in drunken rage, traven deals 100% more damage but also takes 100% more damage for a period of ~10 seconds (15 or so if you include both bloodbaths). This means that you sacrifice a few seconds of time to pop the barrel, in order to gain a few more by having him take a lot more damage. I will say the fight can be done faster, we did not have a PF enchant as I had mine on another character at the time, neither did we all use buff potions and neither myself, the dc, or the GF are maxed out. If we were all BiS, rather then just freedom and snoo, we could probably cut off 2/3 more seconds.
the way you describe the trick is sounds exploit. Does traven gets 100% more damage always when you touch the barrel ? because if is only when you enter is exploit.
Whenever you activate the barrel he does. When you activate the barrel, it will place a buff icon underneath his name that looks like a flexed arm. If you hover over it, it should read something along the lines of: "drunken rage: traven deals 100% more damage and takes 100% more damage." So basically, between both bloodbaths he hits twice as hard but also gets hit twice as hard, it doesn't matter when you activate it, the moment you do, the buff gets applied to him.
@nisckis I have to admit, the screenshot is just an eye-candy. We did an eLoL with a TR and SW and 3 buffers. Effectiveness for the TR and the SW should be about the same, right? But for some reason, the SW has 800% effectiveness, while the TR only around 250%.
Most buffs get applied in different layers, so a 30% buff is NOT 30% of your base dmg, but 30% of your buffed dmg.
For example, base dmg is 100, your own buffs are 100%= 200. +30% base dmg is 230 dmg, while a 30% buff in a different layer is 260. 1000% effectiveness is not additive 1000% buff, but multiple layers of buffs resulting in 1000%.
Most buffs get applied in different layers, so a 30% buff is NOT 30% of your base dmg, but 30% of your buffed dmg.
For example, base dmg is 100, your own buffs are 100%= 200. +30% base dmg is 230 dmg, while a 30% buff in a different layer is 260. 1000% effectiveness is not additive 1000% buff, but multiple layers of buffs resulting in 1000%.
OK, if we count every debuff as multiplicative and making them 50% debuff you would need 4 multiplicative debuffs. If we make them 30% debuff then you will need 6.
I forgot that 510% effectiveness means a total of x5.1 damage... I need some sleep, I forgot dividing the numbers by 100
Anyway, this means the party knows what they are doing and they play as a party. Is funny how they always want you to wear a Fabled but they don't want to wear neither HV nor HP.
Post edited by nisckis on
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Most buffs get applied in different layers, so a 30% buff is NOT 30% of your base dmg, but 30% of your buffed dmg.
For example, base dmg is 100, your own buffs are 100%= 200. +30% base dmg is 230 dmg, while a 30% buff in a different layer is 260. 1000% effectiveness is not additive 1000% buff, but multiple layers of buffs resulting in 1000%.
OK, if we count every debuff as multiplicative and making them 50% debuff you would need 4 multiplicative debuffs. If we make them 30% debuff then you will need 6.
I forgot that 510% effectiveness means a total of x5.1 damage... I need some sleep, I forgot dividing the numbers by 100
Anyway, this means the party knows what they are doing and they play as a party. Is funny how the always want you to wear a Fabled but they don't want to wear neither HV nor HP.
Most buffs get applied in different layers, so a 30% buff is NOT 30% of your base dmg, but 30% of your buffed dmg.
For example, base dmg is 100, your own buffs are 100%= 200. +30% base dmg is 230 dmg, while a 30% buff in a different layer is 260. 1000% effectiveness is not additive 1000% buff, but multiple layers of buffs resulting in 1000%.
OK, if we count every debuff as multiplicative and making them 50% debuff you would need 4 multiplicative debuffs. If we make them 30% debuff then you will need 6.
I forgot that 510% effectiveness means a total of x5.1 damage... I need some sleep, I forgot dividing the numbers by 100
Anyway, this means the party knows what they are doing and they play as a party. Is funny how they always want you to wear a Fabled but they don't want to wear neither HV nor HP.
The problem here is the epen aka. Paingiver. HP and HV set can boost group dmg for 30%. You lose some, but ALL gain up to 30%. SWs deal crazy dmg with their set, while CWs lose, lets say 10%-20% and the group wins up to 30%. First glance, 10%-20% more dmg, YAY. Second look, 20% more dmg for me and 30% more for the other players, so at the end if the day your contribution is much better, but you lose, compared to the other players, if you look at Paingiver.
@nisckis Me and a few guildmates decided to teach the stubborn people by showing them what can be done. Everyday, we take 1 player / run to elol and kill Lostmauth in 9 seconds, without allowing lostmauth to fly away. 9-10 mil damage from a single skill usually does that. I can only laugh at the pug demanding "5 dps 3k" runs when a 2 - 2,5k well setup team can triple their damage output.
OFC! this is an ez mode, I don't really expect any worse performance with this set up: DC debuff build + HP, MoF debuff + plague + HV, SS CA buffs + crit buffs + chaotic buffs, GF KV buff and all other HAMSTER, GWF buffs himself with daring shout + daggers + wms... plus u guys must be at least semi-BiS. This set up aims to maximize the main DPS (GWF)... I got a 8mils IBS in elol and at the point, we had only 1 GF and 1 Mof with HV + plague, I think the GWF in this vid could even do much more than that..
If this set up cannot find it easy to do any dungeons that are available now (legitimately) then nobody else can unless they glitch it which is really really not cool. I think judging that dungeons are too easy through the view of these videos' makers are not quite fair. Dungeons are still fairly hard for many players.
Comments
He did clear it with 2k IL, so he has proven, that it is not difficult, if the party is well composed and the players know, how to play.
Here is another burn video, this time featuring a Fury SW instead of a GWF.
Setup:
DC 3.7k - No damage
GF 4k hybrid build no capstone
SW 2.7K
CW 2.4K
TR 2.5K
This is a medium-to-high team compostion, but no OP, no old armor sets, no esoteric pets or enchantements, The CW even died once.
You don't need legendary items to do speed runs. Just the right buffs-debuffs: they are IL indipendent. That's why I agree with @asterotg: If people with worse skill/feats/team composition cant complete a T2 dungeon, the conclusion is not, that the dungeons are difficult, but that they cant play. This forum is full of advices from experienced players to do speedruns. I read them and it works.
You can recruit an OP for better survivability instead of a TR: the results would be the same. I did a speed run at egwd with a 2.1K OP: it took more or less 1.5 minute to kill the boss - we had an immune stage in the middle.
Speerun is not equal to full rk 12/mythic BiS players: this is something which is difficult to understand. What is a speedrun for high IL players, it's also a feasible way to complete T2 dungeon for low IL players: they will not kill the boss so fast, but they can do it as I did with my 2.4k warlock.
The CW had his first speedrun. At the end he asked:"How is it possible? Is it normal?". My answer was: "Yes it is, but if you expected a hard fight when you run an end game content, no..it's not normal":
With the same setup, we did eToS: it took few seconds less.
Same fight&kill dynamic shown in the video from @thefabricant and @itbls.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
2 out of these 3 comments are ironic. I hope you get the right ones.
I'm just a beginner from this point of view: in the past I've spent time to maximize my features and learnt nothing about this important part of the game.
Now I can play my dc in a different way, slotting different powers and I'm sure that I can do better: still testing.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Now I am curious. Theoretically, what is the highest amount of efficiency we can get? The absolute maximum possible?
For example, base dmg is 100, your own buffs are 100%= 200. +30% base dmg is 230 dmg, while a 30% buff in a different layer is 260. 1000% effectiveness is not additive 1000% buff, but multiple layers of buffs resulting in 1000%.
If we make them 30% debuff then you will need 6.
I forgot that 510% effectiveness means a total of x5.1 damage... I need some sleep, I forgot dividing the numbers by 100
Anyway, this means the party knows what they are doing and they play as a party. Is funny how they always want you to wear a Fabled but they don't want to wear neither HV nor HP.
Unfortunately for me, I can't get my guildies to understand it =(
If this set up cannot find it easy to do any dungeons that are available now (legitimately) then nobody else can unless they glitch it which is really really not cool. I think judging that dungeons are too easy through the view of these videos' makers are not quite fair. Dungeons are still fairly hard for many players.
This is Spartan bae.
(It is not my hit, but its the highest hit I have seen anyone do)