Took me a while because I was busy. This will probably be my last post on this matter because of the holidays. Anyway I pulled some data off the leader board. Hopefully this will help.
So i decided that the best way to see if where certain classes are in terms of their strength and killing potential is to get their kills vs death and kills vs recorded encounters ( this being the kill vs kills + death). This pretty much gives us a sense of just what is really going on. Please see below report:
I think that's really helpful for looking at scope as well as rank. However, I noticed that Paladins do not appear here. Did they never get included on the Leaderboard?
Took me a while because I was busy. This will probably be my last post on this matter because of the holidays. Anyway I pulled some data off the leader board. Hopefully this will help.
So i decided that the best way to see if where certain classes are in terms of their strength and killing potential is to get their kills vs death and kills vs recorded encounters ( this being the kill vs kills + death). This pretty much gives us a sense of just what is really going on. Please see below report:
I think that's really helpful for looking at scope as well as rank. However, I noticed that Paladins do not appear here. Did they never get included on the Leaderboard?
Yeah in the 1st 5 pages there were only 2 pallys, so i did not include them.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
One problem is the number of units used here, some of which distort the outcome, and is largely measuring pug-killing capacity. For example, the top-scoring CW for k:d ratio is notorious for avoiding tough fights, hiding behind his teammates, stealing kills, and not really playing to win but to gank people. This gives him a highly exaggerated k:d ratio, which contributes wrongly to the overall perception of class balance.
What ever distortion is created by pug-killing or the match making process being bad is uniform across the board so we can neglect that distortion.
It is very clear from your original statement what you meant. Which to an experienced PvPer makes you appear very uninformed about the situation in PvP. At the same time as you stated that GFs are a utility class, you also stated that they're not expected to beat anyone one on one, which is in pretty strong contrast to what actually goes down when it comes to fights between PvP-specced characters, where GFs are favored over most other classes when they can't simply run away (or are unkillable like OPs).
Again i said that non-coqueror builds, meaning that you build your GF as a support. I don't get your point here, I already admitted that I mispoke, and I assumed that he made a protector or tactician which by the very concept of it is a build to tank and buff rather than kill.
For the rest of your statements, you could be right. Unfortunately numbers don't seem to support that. All I really want to do here to clarify that we have a consensus, and we have numbers, and both seem to point at the same thing. Again you could be correct, but all tangible evidence here seems to support the contrary.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I think that the latter problem in particular precludes getting useful statistics from the leaderboard at the moment -- in the past, when the rankings were working properly, we could at least take these numbers based on the top overall rankings, which would enable comparison of more similar units of more highly-skilled and highly-geared players. That was far from perfect either, but it would be more accurate.
There may be other ways to review data, but you are more interested in a "perfect scoring" of BIS people you feel comfortable with than raw data. I would suggest we go WAY beyond the first few pages of the leaderboard to aggregate data--and see what most players experience.
Edit: More data gives a more accurate picture and will off-set individuals that are out of the norm.
Again i said that non-coqueror builds, meaning that you build your GF as a support. I don't get your point here, I already admitted that I mispoke, and I assumed that he made a protector or tactician which by the very concept of it is a build to tank and buff rather than kill.
No, your initial statement did not contain the hedging of referring to "non-conqueror builds". This is what you posted:
I guess i mispoke here, i mean support build. Obviously we did not go conqueror.
I keep saying that i apologized for it, and that i meant build not class. Please read through the thread, thanks.
As for the rest for your reply, what else is there to say? Maybe you can come up with how to approach this, i mean you can't say something is wrong unless you know the correct way of doing it.
And, again, im telling you that you are wrong: Conq-GF is not the only tree which can one shot other classes. In fact, all trees can one-shot other classes when they have enough DR and use ItF + Fire wheel. You dont really need to be "Conq" to do so (but, like Exec TR class, its the easiest tree to do so).
I didn't say they can't, i said not expected. The concept of building protector or tactician is to support, sure it is possible to exceed expectations but i doubt it is the norm.
Anyway i'm being misunderstood here and quoted everywhere, so I really need to remind everyone that I am fine with TR. I am fine with GF, i believe that the game is pretty balanced as it is. In every game there is a class or job or whatever it is called that has the job of being the most efficient damage dealer for a pvp party, and I believe that TR fits this role in NW, that is all.
Post edited by oliboyph on
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
As I remember 30k power in pve = 30k power in pvp.. ArP goes same.. Its not like in pvp your stats gets decreased... So if I hit u with such force would u stay alive? lets say even 40k powa.? Would u stay alive? with such powa from perm stealth I would HAMSTER anyone just with att wills. And latter in forum claim that TR opines is myth...
I didn't know that you can have companions like augment / bonding procs in PvP like gg/dom was it not fixed..... Also how much tenacity that TR has ? ohh wait, no need to check, i can tell by the items, 0. This is a dead TR in PvP. More so, it's an MI exec (most likely) or scoundrel, this is not sabo, there is no good reason for sabo to have so much crit in PvE (this is an obvious PvE build)
I have even more "Powa" (pure PvE build) and with less ilvl, you know what it good for?! Killing pugs with 0 tenacity. You know what it isn't good for ?! Fighting any half decent PvP player.
Looks like the real PvP is in the forums, troll builds (read as "troll posts"), premades vs pugs, class stackings, and with how the forums work you even have the bugs, like in the real game.
I had full HP and i wasn't attacked by any other player. Just the TR comes in stealth and used instantly his SE, (like always) So what kind of combat should be this?? Seriously.. Just pressing SE and that's it?!
SE need a rework a Fix or what ever it is definitely "not working right", It ignores basically Everything! And when i say everything, i mean Everything!
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Comments
Even if i removed mini-Me from this and added the next GF the ranking would stay the same, notice the almost uniform consistency of TR's numbers.
Again i said that non-coqueror builds, meaning that you build your GF as a support. I don't get your point here, I already admitted that I mispoke, and I assumed that he made a protector or tactician which by the very concept of it is a build to tank and buff rather than kill.
For the rest of your statements, you could be right. Unfortunately numbers don't seem to support that. All I really want to do here to clarify that we have a consensus, and we have numbers, and both seem to point at the same thing. Again you could be correct, but all tangible evidence here seems to support the contrary.
@macjae
There may be other ways to review data, but you are more interested in a "perfect scoring" of BIS people you feel comfortable with than raw data. I would suggest we go WAY beyond the first few pages of the leaderboard to aggregate data--and see what most players experience.
Edit: More data gives a more accurate picture and will off-set individuals that are out of the norm.
Besides, we want more players, right?
As for the rest for your reply, what else is there to say? Maybe you can come up with how to approach this, i mean you can't say something is wrong unless you know the correct way of doing it.
I didn't say they can't, i said not expected. The concept of building protector or tactician is to support, sure it is possible to exceed expectations but i doubt it is the norm.
Anyway i'm being misunderstood here and quoted everywhere, so I really need to remind everyone that I am fine with TR. I am fine with GF, i believe that the game is pretty balanced as it is. In every game there is a class or job or whatever it is called that has the job of being the most efficient damage dealer for a pvp party, and I believe that TR fits this role in NW, that is all.
Also how much tenacity that TR has ? ohh wait, no need to check, i can tell by the items, 0. This is a dead TR in PvP.
More so, it's an MI exec (most likely) or scoundrel, this is not sabo, there is no good reason for sabo to have so much crit in PvE (this is an obvious PvE build)
I have even more "Powa" (pure PvE build) and with less ilvl, you know what it good for?! Killing pugs with 0 tenacity. You know what it isn't good for ?!
Fighting any half decent PvP player.
Looks like the real PvP is in the forums, troll builds (read as "troll posts"), premades vs pugs, class stackings, and with how the forums work you even have the bugs, like in the real game.
fun fun fun.
I had full HP and i wasn't attacked by any other player.
Just the TR comes in stealth and used instantly his SE, (like always)
So what kind of combat should be this?? Seriously..
Just pressing SE and that's it?!
SE need a rework a Fix or what ever it is definitely "not working right", It ignores basically Everything!
And when i say everything, i mean Everything!