Leadership at Level 25 - this is it???

kemnimtarkas

So, yeah. I knew not to expect AD or anything, but really? I don't bot - never have used a bot - never looked up how to do botting.

But... the level 23 option is superior to the level 25 option (more XP in 1/5 the amount of time needed, all other benefits exactly the SAME).

So PWE nerfed Leadership by yanking the AD, and then...called it a day? No further thought given to balancing rewards for investment of time?

This is ...... lame. Way, way, way lame.

suicidalgodot

...we might see a stealth Professions overhaul with the Mod 8 launch...

...Earth might be hit by an asteroid...

Constructively said:

Leadership - and all Armour-/Weaponcrafting-professions are outdated, many currently plain useless, and way overdue for some overhaul. Jewelcrafting, too, with the current price structure.

...would be nice to hear something from C.

silverkelt

yes.. against many valid arguments to the contrary , that is what they did. over 90% costing remains the same.

plasticbat

Leadership is not useless as it gives you RP for self-consumption or AH.
With Artifact, Artifact gear, enchantment, you always needs RP. Cost: 0 AD. No special expensive tool needed.
At the moment, this is probably still the most useful profession.

Alchemy is also useful if you plan on upgrade your gear (with minor gain). Cost: 0 AD (if you make everything yourself). No special expensive tool needed.

silverkelt

Leadership is the longest profession though and it holds NO value until at least lvl 21, but 23-24 at least and 25 offers nothing better then 21-24. Thats not working correctly regardless if its still the most valuable profession outside of alchemy.

SO you are spending a vast amount of time.. to get to lvl 21, and no, gold and minuscule experience it provides up to that point is really a return.

Clearly its not structured correctly and it needs a rework.

Im not saying its not useful, but current structure is nonsensical, it only worked with AD, removing the AD makes the pathing non linear, no one would create it that way.

suicidalgodot

plasticbat said:

Leadership is not useless as it gives you RP for self-consumption or AH.
With Artifact, Artifact gear, enchantment, you always needs RP. Cost: 0 AD. No special expensive tool needed.
At the moment, this is probably still the most useful profession.

Alchemy is also useful if you plan on upgrade your gear (with minor gain). Cost: 0 AD (if you make everything yourself). No special expensive tool needed.

I didn't say so. I said: "needs rework". And: "many are plain useless". Also, Alchemy is the one Profession I left out...

flyingleon

As last time I checked gatewaytest, I did not see many changes in leadership prof. Level 25 task gives 2 chests instead of 1 and probably also take slightly less time.

plasticbat

flyingleon said:

As last time I checked gatewaytest, I did not see many changes in leadership prof. Level 25 task gives 2 chests instead of 1 and probably also take slightly less time.

The only change that was made was to remove all AD except a few rare tasks.
The task that took one day and the task that took 4 hours have been there since there was level 25 profession.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

urlord283

There is not much in Leadership or any Profession other than Jewell Crafting and Alchemy.

That said...

It is free so you get more than you pay for

Urlord

urabask

urlord283 said:

There is not much in Leadership or any Profession other than Jewell Crafting and Alchemy.

That said...

It is free so you get more than you pay for

Urlord

Don't know why people keep saying this.

Resetting tasks for three months is not free : |

It's a chore and I expect something better for wasting so much time on it.

urlord283

urabask said:

urlord283 said:

There is not much in Leadership or any Profession other than Jewell Crafting and Alchemy.

That said...

It is free so you get more than you pay for

Urlord

Don't know why people keep saying this.

Resetting tasks for three months is not free : |

It's a chore and I expect something better for wasting so much time on it.

I understand "time is money" but IMO this is optional... as is not required for advancement.

So I would like more but don't really expect it.

All my professions are at max and the only ones which have any value to me are the ones I stated and the ones that offer Armor upgrades but those require AD.

Urlord

silverkelt

Not true.. I spent money for my leadership slots, it wasnt free. You can say its free to 2 slots. Every other slot had to be purchased either via money or zax, but all zen on zax is paid for. So no, its not free at all. People get these things so mixed up.

plasticbat

silverkelt said:

Not true.. I spent money for my leadership slots, it wasnt free. You can say its free to 2 slots. Every other slot had to be purchased either via money or zax, but all zen on zax is paid for. So no, its not free at all. People get these things so mixed up.

My character slots are free for me as I did not pay a cent. If somebody else paid it, it is still free for me.

urlord283

Ok... I have never spent money on Leadership...

I don't think I know how.

Anyway I understand your point and I too would like more but don't expect it

Urlord

kvet

Without getting into the debate on whether the changes that did happen should have happened, one thing I thought I'd point out: All the RP you get from Leadership is unbound. If you had a leadership army before, you can still use it to mass produce unbound RP at a pretty decent rate - especially R5 enchants. It's not what a botter gets of course, since you'd be doing it LEGIT (since leadership armies are totally and completely legit, despite what many cry babies who didn't think to do it themselves say), but it's still a really effective way to get solid RP over time.

suicidalgodot

It's not useless, that's true. However, it could use a rework, like many other professions. And the AD-sink prices.

urabask

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urlord283 said:

urabask said:

urlord283 said:

There is not much in Leadership or any Profession other than Jewell Crafting and Alchemy.

That said...

It is free so you get more than you pay for

Urlord

Don't know why people keep saying this.

Resetting tasks for three months is not free : |

It's a chore and I expect something better for wasting so much time on it.

I understand "time is money" but IMO this is optional... as is not required for advancement.

So I would like more but don't really expect it.

All my professions are at max and the only ones which have any value to me are the ones I stated and the ones that offer Armor upgrades but those require AD.

Urlord

Bwahahahah.

Try grinding RP for legendary artifact equipment without a leadership army. It's something like 186 stacks of minor resonance stones.

silverkelt

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

Not true.. I spent money for my leadership slots, it wasnt free. You can say its free to 2 slots. Every other slot had to be purchased either via money or zax, but all zen on zax is paid for. So no, its not free at all. People get these things so mixed up.

My character slots are free for me as I did not pay a cent. If somebody else paid it, it is still free for me.

My friend, you worked and then exchanged, someone paid money for your slots. Thats how this works, it was free to you, but all slots were purchased (unless rewarded through a giveaway anyways).

So no they are not free, outside of the starting two. They are only perceived free to you, but in terms of actual in game purchases, it cost money. Its the same with all zen items you can buy. They are not free.

So something that they were promoting, to get money for, was removed, what they gave back, for said purchases, is a little lackluster.

Regardless of weather they should've done that, they need to redo the profession to make more linear sense, if rewards stay the same, then they should reduce time to get to lvl 25, as they are clearly not worth 90% of the value they were just a couple months ago.

Of course that doesn't help me, just new players honestly. Im maxed the ones Im going to max, there is no reason at this current time to keep maxing leadership out. If they do nothing.. its all the same to me I guess.


THE ENTIRE free concept is only perceived to be free, this has been a failing of many on these forums. ITEMS cost someone money, just because they didn't COST you money,doesnt mean its free at all. This is a major fallacy in many arguments.

plasticbat

silverkelt said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

Not true.. I spent money for my leadership slots, it wasnt free. You can say its free to 2 slots. Every other slot had to be purchased either via money or zax, but all zen on zax is paid for. So no, its not free at all. People get these things so mixed up.

My character slots are free for me as I did not pay a cent. If somebody else paid it, it is still free for me.

My friend, you worked and then exchanged, someone paid money for your slots. Thats how this works, it was free to you, but all slots were purchased (unless rewarded through a giveaway anyways).

So no they are not free, outside of the starting two. They are only perceived free to you, but in terms of actual in game purchases, it cost money. Its the same with all zen items you can buy. They are not free.

So something that they were promoting, to get money for, was removed, what they gave back, for said purchases, is a little lackluster.

Regardless of weather they should've done that, they need to redo the profession to make more linear sense, if rewards stay the same, then they should reduce time to get to lvl 25, as they are clearly not worth 90% of the value they were just a couple months ago.

Of course that doesn't help me, just new players honestly. Im maxed the ones Im going to max, there is no reason at this current time to keep maxing leadership out. If they do nothing.. its all the same to me I guess.


THE ENTIRE free concept is only perceived to be free, this has been a failing of many on these forums. ITEMS cost someone money, just because they didn't COST you money,doesnt mean its free at all. This is a major fallacy in many arguments.

If you put it this way, even that 2 free slots are not free because Cryptic pays for that (in terms of development, salary, etc).
Same as somebody giving out free money in the mall, that is not free neither because he worked for it too.

For me, as my own opinion, free means something I don't pay directly or indirectly (e.g. health care is not free because I pay that in a form of tax).
You can expand that to something else if you wish.

silverkelt

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

plasticbat

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

urabask

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

silverkelt

thats the company side, not the player side.. sheesh.

I think people can tell the difference. People keep saying things a free, like class slots for leadership, but they were not the company profited from SOMEONE for them, even if it wasnt you.

That is what Im driving at. When a item isnt GIVING away at zero dollars to the player, then its not free. It might be free to someone who exchanged it, but it cost someone, somewhere some actual REAL life currency.

plasticbat

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

urabask

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

plasticbat

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

I seldom charge people for my entertainment time.
If I consider myself working, I should stop playing.

urabask

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

I seldom charge people for my entertainment time.
If I consider myself working, I should stop playing.

Well that's the thing, resetting leadership tasks is so unrewarding that it feels like work.

plasticbat

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

I seldom charge people for my entertainment time.
If I consider myself working, I should stop playing.

Well that's the thing, resetting leadership tasks is so unrewarding that it feels like work.

Not sure what you mean. Before nerf, AD. After nerf, RP.
On the other hand, entertainment usually is not rewarding but work usually does.

urabask

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

I seldom charge people for my entertainment time.
If I consider myself working, I should stop playing.

Well that's the thing, resetting leadership tasks is so unrewarding that it feels like work.

Not sure what you mean. Before nerf, AD. After nerf, RP.
On the other hand, entertainment usually is not rewarding but work usually does.

Except for the first 21 levels where you get nothing.

plasticbat

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

urabask said:

plasticbat said:

silverkelt said:

No everyone has access to those two.. they have nothing to do with in game purchases. All zen exchange items you directly bought, are clearly NOT free, as someone paid for that zen.

You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money.

This is a in game (closed) ecomony) it has little direct comparisons to open market. Its controlled, as obvious examples have shown in the last few weeks.

That 2 free slots also cost money to run. Cryptic pays for that. Hence, it is not free either because somebody did pay for it based on your definition. "You cant keep saying something is free, when clearly it costs money. "

That's not really relevant to this conversation because cryptic is doing that for real world money gains whereas silverkelt is talking about things being free within context of the in game economy.

When I am talking about free, I am talking about real world money and to be more specific the money in my wallet.
I agree we are talking about different context.
context 1: my wallet.
context 2: everybody.
context 3: everybody minus Cryptic.

Which ignores the fact that earning that thing for free means you value your time at something like $0.20 an hour.

I seldom charge people for my entertainment time.
If I consider myself working, I should stop playing.

Well that's the thing, resetting leadership tasks is so unrewarding that it feels like work.

Not sure what you mean. Before nerf, AD. After nerf, RP.
On the other hand, entertainment usually is not rewarding but work usually does.

Except for the first 21 levels where you get nothing.

For that, those are actually easiest among others for me because I only need to do 2 types of tasks (because my new OP has only 6 slots; I could have more but I do not bother). Both type are just pure leadership XP and 8 hours per session.

I use gateway. Choose task 1. Submit, back page (a button in my mouse), submit, back page, submit.
Choose task 2, submit, back page, submit, back page, submit.
less than 15 seconds. 2 to 3 times per day.