Developer Blog: Refining Artifacts Changes

strumslinger

One understandable concern has accompanied the addition of new artifact weapons: transferring invested refinement points into new artifact weapons. http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9603333

beckylunatic

Question: Will artifact equipment *without* the new tag (ie. still at rank 1) still receive double points during 2xRP events? I've used excess campaign currency towards artifact equipment RP in the past.

asterdahl

beckylunatic said:

Question: Will artifact equipment *without* the new tag (ie. still at rank 1) still receive double points during 2xRP events? I've used excess campaign currency towards artifact equipment RP in the past.

Any items without the "always double refinement" tag; such as artifact weapons rank 14 and below, will still be affected by double refinement events.

beckylunatic

Cool, thanks!

kingsgrace

Does this apply to both mainhand and offhand?

scathias

the blog post seems to very specifically target only the artifact weapons. is this intentional phrasing or is this change going to apply to all artifact equipment? Because i'd like to be able to upgrade my Off-hand as well as my main hand when i go to a new set and i am pretty darn sure you guys are not just releasing the main hands only.

rayrdan

Awesome does this apply to necklace and belt too

oldbaldyone

scathias said:

the blog post seems to very specifically target only the artifact weapons. is this intentional phrasing or is this change going to apply to all artifact equipment? Because i'd like to be able to upgrade my Off-hand as well as my main hand when i go to a new set and i am pretty darn sure you guys are not just releasing the main hands only.

Clarification there would seem warranted. I don't think many people will be doing what is stated in the blog, as who is going to put their artifact weapon into their artifact belt...they want to put it into another weapon.

Here is what I understand the terms to mean:

Artifact Equipment: Belts, Cloaks
Artifact Weapons: MH and OH
Artifacts: Sigils placed in the artifact slots.

So question is: Are Artifact Weapons also considered Artifact Equipment?

Is it just this simple: Artifact Equipment (Belts, Weapons, Cloaks) will refine double into other Artifact Equipment (Belts, Weapons, Cloaks) at all times?

Depending on the clarification, I think they mean basically all artifact equipment will be worth 2x Rp at all times. If so, I like this change. Artifact and refining still have problems, but its a start.

argrosch

Simple question: Why just weapons?

ironzerg79

oldbaldyone said:

Depending on the clarification, I think they mean basically all artifact equipment will be worth 2x Rp at all times. If so, I like this change. Artifact and refining still have problems, but its a start.

My exact question, too. If it's all Artifact Equipment, then that's a nice change. Still doesn't make me overly crazy about the RP situation as it currently exists, but it's a big step in the right direction...assuming what @oldbaldyone is asking is clarified to be accurate.

bloodygeorge

Thank you for this, it is a step in the right direction.

asterdahl

oldbaldyone said:

So question is: Are Artifact Weapons also considered Artifact Equipment?

This is correct.

I imagine that the wording in the following quote is what might be causing some confusion: "Starting with Underdark, any artifact weapon that has been upgraded to rank 15 or above will always refine into another piece of artifact equipment at double the rate, whether an event is running or not."

The reason that this wording was chosen is that only artifact weapons rank 15 and above will receive the new tag. On the other hand, artifact weapons may be refined into any artifact equipment, including weapons, belts and necks.

This does not mean that all artifact equipment will receive the new tag, or that all artifact equipment will refine into or receive double refinement, it simply means that should you choose to refine your rank 15+ weapon into your belt, it will grant double refinement as if it were under the effect of the event, regardless of whether the event is running.

This change is primarily to improve the process of switching to a new artifact weapon, but as the new "always double refinement tag" is not concerned with the destination of an item being refined, it will work when you feed a weapon into a non-weapon piece of artifact equipment.

Apologies for the somewhat redundant explanation, but I want to be sure the change is not misunderstood.

scathias said:

the blog post seems to very specifically target only the artifact weapons. is this intentional phrasing or is this change going to apply to all artifact equipment? Because i'd like to be able to upgrade my Off-hand as well as my main hand when i go to a new set and i am pretty darn sure you guys are not just releasing the main hands only.

In this case, weapon refers to both main hand and off hands, regardless of whether your off hand is a dagger, shield or grimoire, it will be affected by the changes, and you'll be able to feed it into a new off hand and receive full refinement bonuses.

argrosch said:

Simple question: Why just weapons?

This was an improvement we wanted to make before introducing any new artifact weapons that are outright upgrades, because we did not want players to feel like they had to wait around to use an awesome new weapon they earned. Currently, aside from the player level cap increase, we have not introduced artifacts or non-weapon artifact equipment that is a direct increase in power over previous artifacts. That is why the flag is only present on weapons for now.

Although there are no immediate plans to introduce this tag for other types of artifacts, we will continue to listen to your feedback and make adjustments as more artifacts are added.

blackjackwidow

oldbaldyone said:

scathias said:

the blog post seems to very specifically target only the artifact weapons. is this intentional phrasing or is this change going to apply to all artifact equipment? Because i'd like to be able to upgrade my Off-hand as well as my main hand when i go to a new set and i am pretty darn sure you guys are not just releasing the main hands only.

Clarification there would seem warranted. I don't think many people will be doing what is stated in the blog, as who is going to put their artifact weapon into their artifact belt...they want to put it into another weapon.

Here is what I understand the terms to mean:

Artifact Equipment: Belts, Cloaks
Artifact Weapons: MH and OH
Artifacts: Sigils placed in the artifact slots.

This is how I read it, with the exception that MH and OH are also Artifact Equipment.
iow, All artifact weapons are artifact equipment; all artifact equipment is not an artifact weapon

oldbaldyone said:

So question is: Are Artifact Weapons also considered Artifact Equipment?

Is it just this simple: Artifact Equipment (Belts, Weapons, Cloaks) will refine double into other Artifact Equipment (Belts, Weapons, Cloaks) at all times?

Depending on the clarification, I think they mean basically all artifact equipment will be worth 2x Rp at all times. If so, I like this change. Artifact and refining still have problems, but its a start.

I don't think so - I believe @asterdahl is being very specific: Main-hand and Off-hand weapons will always refine as 2x RP into ANY type of artifact equipment: MH, OH, waist or neck.

I agree that not many people would put a mainhand into a cloak, but if you wanted to, I think you get double rp for it (just as you would during a double rp weekend).

I hope that the "matching" double does not get screwed up with this change, because waiting for a double rp timeframe right now is actually giving you 4x rp if you put a matching type into a matching type.

oldbaldyone

So basically, Artifact Weapons are worth twice as much RP as before, but no longer benefit from Double RP events.

Got it.

mirlegris

So, if i have a legendary weapon artifact ( cost 4.645.200 rp ), with rp worth actually = 949.432 rp, with the new system, if i refine a new green weapon with my legendary weapon, it give me 949.432 x2 rp ? Double rp event or not.

Correct or i am ( big hope ) wrong ?

Even x4 ( 949.432 x 4 = 3.797.728 ), it's useless regarding the original rp used.

zukn75

Well this is a good thing.

peregr1nus

asterdahl said:

oldbaldyone said:

So question is: Are Artifact Weapons also considered Artifact Equipment?

This was an improvement we wanted to make before introducing any new artifact weapons that are outright upgrades, because we did not want players to feel like they had to wait around to use an awesome new weapon they earned. Currently, aside from the player level cap increase, we have not introduced artifacts or non-weapon artifact equipment that is a direct increase in power over previous artifacts. That is why the flag is only present on weapons for now.

Although there are no immediate plans to introduce this tag for other types of artifacts, we will continue to listen to your feedback andmake adjustments as more artifacts are added.

The only direct upgrade of Arti. eq. was at the 60-70 cap increase,but new Arti. eq. may be a "must have" even when it is not a direct upgrade(lostmauth set as an example) so the people will anyway have to wait for the double event perhaps...


One more thing-the class sigils artifacts cant be refined even though you spend a RP on them,that seems very unfair to spend RP there and be unable to spend them elswhere like a with a normal artifact.

peregr1nus

Oh,and i forget to say that i really appreciate this improvement and fingers crossed for next one.

ironzerg79

mirlegris said:

So, if i have a legendary weapon artifact ( cost 4.645.200 rp ), with rp worth actually = 949.432 rp, with the new system, if i refine a new green weapon with my legendary weapon, it give me 949.432 x2 rp ? Double rp event or not.

Correct or i am ( big hope ) wrong ?

Even x4 ( 949.432 x 4 = 3.797.728 ), it's useless regarding the original rp used.

It should be 4x into your new weapon, assuming you're going MH into MH and OH into OH, or that 3.8 million number. So you get 80% of your RP back (at Legendary).

The only real difference now is that this is all the time instead of having to wait for a 2x RP even to maximize your return.

Assuming the new Artifact Weapons are of a higher iLevel, you're getting a "mostly" better weapon with your RP, so it still ends up being "mostly" and upgrade.

asterdahl

blackjackwidow said:

All artifact weapons are artifact equipment; all artifact equipment is not an artifact weapon

This is exactly correct.

blackjackwidow said:

I hope that the "matching" double does not get screwed up with this change, because waiting for a double rp timeframe right now is actually giving you 4x rp if you put a matching type into a matching type.

No other bonuses will be impacted, your rank 15 and above weapons will refine into other artifact weapons or equipment as if you were refining during a double refinement event before the changes. That double refinement bonus will stack with other bonuses like bonuses for refining one primary into another.

The QA team is keeping a close eye on these changes, in addition they will become available on preview in the not too distant future, please feel free to transfer your character and test out the changes. Your continued feedback is greatly appreciated.

mirlegris said:

with the new system, if i refine a new green weapon with my legendary weapon, it give me 949.432 x2 rp ?

This change is only to artifact weapons rank 15 and above, this essentially means artifact weapons that are blue quality or above. Brand new, green artifacts won't be affected. You'll still be able to receive a bonus if you feed these during double refinement events.

mattock13 said:

Will the new weapons be on par with the Strongholds weapons or will they be an upgrade? Will anything be changing in regards to the cubes of augmentation and the randomness of unlocks? I'll understand if you can't answer this yet, just curious.

The new weapons from Demogorgon will be on par with Stronghold weapons, but quite difficult to obtain. The set bonuses on the two weapons are a bit different though, so you may find one or the other desirable based on your preferences. The Stronghold weapons will remain quite strong when you can field a party with multiple, due to the unity bonus.

The new elemental artifact weapons are similar in terms of raw strength, but their set bonuses are more situational. Some players might find their bonuses more appealing depending on their play style. These weapons won't require a guild or participating in a challenging 10 man boss battle, but they'll require quite a bit of time.

In regards to cubes of augmentation, we don't have any immediate plans to make adjustments, but we're continuing to take your feedback into account.

peregr1nus

mattock13 said:

Cool change.

Will the new weapons be on par with the Strongholds weapons or will they be an upgrade? Will anything be changing in regards to the cubes of augmentation and the randomness of unlocks? I'll understand if you can't answer this yet, just curious.

Augmentation cubes price-- because of AD changes along with -- of other prices? I hope so...

*(-- = minus minus xD)

beckylunatic

asterdahl said:

In regards to cubes of augmentation, we don't have any immediate plans to make adjustments, but we're continuing to take your feedback into account.

Even with no intention to change how they function, they should get a price reduction on par to what was implemented for GMoPs. They can rack up to an absolutely ludicrous expense, with their random nature, *just* to get your equipment rolled with two powers that you actually use a lot.

zeusom

When upgrading/changing a weapon for another artifact weapon, it would be nice to have a "preserve transmute" or "transfer transmute" option. Some of the weapon transmutes people have on tier current weapons are completely unavailable now.

blackjackwidow

asterdahl said:

The QA team is keeping a close eye on these changes, in addition they will become available on preview in the not too distant future, please feel free to transfer your character and test out the changes. Your continued feedback is greatly appreciated.

Really glad to hear it, and I will try my best to test on preview.

asterdahl said:

In regards to cubes of augmentation, we don't have any immediate plans to make adjustments, but we're continuing to take your feedback into account.

+100% to feedback regarding a price reduction. I would also add that the 5000 AD price to change from one active power to another is quite prohibitive. May not be an issue for all classes, but as a DC, I have 2 entirely different sets of powers that I utilize depending on solo play (most of my time) or group play (where I need to be most effective).

scathias

currently it can cost up to 250k to get the correct at-will bonus on your main hand, and then an additional 600k to unlock the correct class feature bonus, and a further 400k to unlock the correct "tertiary" artifact stat for the off hand, and further AD to increase the amount of the bonus gained on that stat, more if you want to to able to switch between various stats depending on the situation.
so the total cost can run up to 1.25 million to unlock the correct things, and then extras

the only mitigating factors to this are that you can buy the cubes for cheaper if you have VIP or buy going the the AH and buying from people who do have VIP, and that you might get lucky and have to spend far less to get what you want.

On the whole, this is far far to expensive. drop the price of cubes to 1k each. this makes the maximum investment possible closer to 100,000 which is still rather silly to have to spend extra above and beyond the RP cost of the weapon, but at least it is affordable to get within a few days of 24k per day raw AD.

Also, dropping the cost to switch between powers would be good as well (eliminating this cost would be best imo). You give us so many options and then make it prohibitively expensive to be able to switch between things

instynctive

I'm just opting to not get things that are too expensive (like those cube things) and I live without the extra few points here and there.

But that's my choice.

Besides... I'd rather spend my AD on fun things like dyes and transmutes because I like making my characters look somewhat unique.

Although... I don't spend AD to transmute because that's just WAY too expensive.

untamedengineer

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what ever happened to the 'reforge' system for artifact weapons in which you were suppose to be able to reforge an older artifact for a newer one of the equivalent level? (Orginally discussed as coming with Mod 7 around mid July of this year).

asterdahl

dave49424 said:

Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what ever happened to the 'reforge' system for artifact weapons in which you were suppose to be able to reforge an older artifact for a newer one of the equivalent level? (Orginally discussed as coming with Mod 7 around mid July of this year).

That system was actually unintentionally leaked on preview due to a test NPC not being removed from Strongholds. There was never any official announcement or timeline on its implementation. In fact, at the time I clarified that the "reforging" system was something we were experimenting with and not necessarily representative of what we planned to add.

In the end, reforging was overly complicated and less beneficial to the player in terms of the amount of refinement it allowed you to transfer. With that in mind, the addition of the "always double refinement" tag to rank 15+ artifact weapons was the change we settled on.

instynctive

@asterdahl... you guys are making some seriously positive steps towards improving the game.. thank you for that.