Terrible idea .. costing is a issue, not refinement.
Frankly, Im sick and tired of discussing the exchange.. put it as a permanent 500 :1 and leave it. There. Happy? I would be...
Or remove exchange entirely... I would be even happier. I feel like my whole game experience has been ruined by it, remove the darn thing, ive never even used it, nor do I think it makes the game better.
Judging from Champions and Star trek Exchanges they want the Zen Exchange between 200-300 with Spikes to 400 at times. Whomever did the economic Study determined that was Optimal for their Game Systems. So the Current Adjustments are heading to that. It needs to Float to get the people whom enjoy speculating involved. Speculators allow f2p players to buy thing s without spending real money...
It is a pretty basic Economic model and they really should get a Consultant back in to take a look at it and maybe refresh the model.
it needs to float because the optimal range is determined based on the purchasing power of astral diamonds and the purchasing power of zen, which both float both on a player economy basis, and on a basis of costs of Wondrous Bazaar items and Zenshop items.
I really dont see why they dont watch the AH . And any items they see being used to exploit profit .They could just add that item to the Zen shop at a lower price.They could even put a price limit on things and not allow items to be sold over an amount they feel is fair.If that is more work than they want to do then just remove the over priced AH and be done with it.No AH and all account bound items no Bots.
I disagree. You have to remember, every 100 zen is a dollar. If 24k AD is "one days worth work" then an exchange rate of 240 means that 1 dollar pays for exactly 1 days worth of work. So, a person would have to spend 100 dollars just to save 3 months worth of effort.
Exactly right. Essentially the exchange rate of 500:1, 200:1 or even 50:1 as well as rAD refinement limits of 24K AD/day or 10K/day are meaningless by themselves. It only matters when you look at the other costs in the game, like boons, coalescent wards, retraining tokens, etc. etc. I don't think anyone disagrees that the in game costs are ridiculous.
Asking to reduce the refinement limit from 24 to 10 is like asking for the prices to be more than doubled.
I agree the refinement limit is meaningless by itself... from the start I've suggested looking at things in a larger context along with reducing other WB costs, possibly boons or Stronghold items--even if it means reducing refinement cap limits. You're the first person to recognize that economy doesn't change in isolation, something the vast majority missed when attacking reduced refinement caps as a suggestion. Star Trek Online and other cryptic games have refinement limits --FAR lower-- than Neverwinter and a more stable economy.
Yet to incorrectly say that reducing the refinement cap limit would result in costs doubling you're wrong. There's a lot of people that list items far beyond fair market value, and to address this perhaps a higher auction listing price (non refundable for unsold items) and smaller auction commission is required. Inflation is the increase in the cost of goods CAUSED by the fall in the value of money--increasing refinement & uAD rewards in game expand it. It's likely why Cryptic started first by dropping the cost of GMOPs and may expand to other items prior to dropping refinement.
I'm lost by all those who suggest economic prosperty (higher earnings and refinement) will see the cost of goods decrease in value--whereas the opposite is actually true. During the Great Depression, cash disappeared, you could buy things for "pennies on the dollar". Since most don't understand basic economic concepts this is not the best forum for intellectual conversation.
Cryptic keep up the excellent work as you work to balance the economy!
I hope you find the education your wishing for others.
Perhaps you should read the whole thread... No one is naive to suggest the money vanished, an economy is depending on the circulation of currency, primarily because 80% of people are not sitting on stockpiles of it. When the earning potential of the majority was cut off, 90% no longer had a regular supply or very little of it, so I dare you to ask them if it felt like it vanished even though it did not. The United States saw an increase in unemployment by 607%, Great Britian of 129%, France 214% and Germany 232%. That is what causes deflation of items and while you'd not wish to see this occur, neither would want to see inflation equally out of control which can be just as bad or even worse, as is the case with our market. Cause right now Inflation is and has been out of control for a prolonged period, and some economic stablization policies need to be implemented to control it and get the ecnomy back on stable ground..
It is like our market is flooded in diamonds regardless of what your opinion, people don't expect a lot for the diamonds they offer right now and that is a clear fact. The only reason is because they were in the past far to easy to acquire and/or refinement limits are too high. You may disagree with that being the state of the game today but it was what lead us down that path. If that were not true people should be demanding a rate of 250:1 because their diamonds are more valuable to them. While there is no interest rate the developer can influence, the user activity shows very little value for the currency in exchange for goods, so cutting the rate of the SMOPs/GMOPs by 20-75% is in effect the same as a large interest rate change. That is the primary means for which the governing body has to influence market rates aside from reducing the refining cap.
Clearly the markets response reducing the AD Zen rate from 500:1 down to 410:1 in a few short days is proof of that, I would like to see this activity to continue the downward trend as other policies are implemented to increase the value of money (AD). I welcome the work the developers have done in this regard. The end result is us DOING MORE--WITH LESS and we should encourage more of that even if a refinement cap is reduced.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
okay, back up. Inflation is out of control in our market? We're talking about NWO right?
'cause, like, people started droppin RL economic references, which inevitably goes horribly horribly wrong.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited September 2015
+1000
Strathkin, the "gold" backing up Zen is RL currency. People are going to exchange a lot less RL$ for 250,000 AD @ $10. You're not looking at a weak Zen, but an unaffordable game.
It took NWO like 3.5 years to develop all the AD sinks currently existing in game. Just becaue they deflated the GMOP doesn't mean they are going to re-tread everything. The economy has been at 500:1 for at least half it's existence and most of the sinks were built around that fact. I thought the game cost too much at 500:1, esp. when a good subscription game can be had for $20/mo.--$240/yr.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
If the ZAX goes to 250:1 instead of 500:1, but the net purchasing power of that AD is twice as high, then it's an even out for people spending real life cash.
If the AD sinks were adjusted to match GMOP costs, then you should expect the net purchasing power of the AD to be 4x higher, meaning a 250:1 ratio would actually make the zen have more real purchasing power than it did before.
The nominal value of the zen in terms of AD is irrelevant. What's relevant is the purchasing power of the zen, in terms of gameplay elements.
I mean, you could have theoretically gotten the same result just by lifting the AD ceiling on the ZAX, but the economic system in NWO has long since strongly encouraged leadership armies, and they didn't want to keep doing that, so they did the opposite route.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
If the ZAX goes to 250:1 instead of 500:1, but the net purchasing power of that AD is twice as high, then it's an even out for people spending real life cash.
If the AD sinks were adjusted to match GMOP costs, then you should expect the net purchasing power of the AD to be 4x higher, meaning a 250:1 ratio would actually make the zen have more real purchasing power than it did before.
The nominal value of the zen in terms of AD is irrelevant. What's relevant is the purchasing power of the zen, in terms of gameplay elements.
I mean, you could have theoretically gotten the same result just by lifting the AD ceiling on the ZAX, but the economic system in NWO has long since strongly encouraged leadership armies, and they didn't want to keep doing that, so they did the opposite route.
I don't have faith that they will re-tread the AD sinks in the game. They don't give proper rewards for effort now. They blithely ditch Leadership not just from LS armies, but from everyone (it was my in-game income on 2 characters.) They killed all my equipment in Mod 6, which required an outlay--when does that happen in real life?
If they do re-tread the AD sinks, it's going to take months at the rate they move. The GMOP change would have shown good faith if they'd done it when they killed LS, instead of as a bone they threw afterward to screaming mobs.
And within 6 mos. they will have another big game-breaking CAT-astrophe, like Mod 6 followed by Leadership nerf, followed by ?. The management seems to thrive on the turmoil.
This game's economy does not work like real life economics. Nobody just turns off the Aquamarines and Peridots when they decide you've had too much. But it happens in Neverwinter.
TLDR: Game managers are an outlier in this economy, there are more variables than you think.
This game is so liquid in its policies I don't understand how it can continue. A game requires some form of rules that you can count on.
EXACTLY! So they nerf the AD market - ok, great, the economy should reset, right? Basically, the bread that was selling for $200 should now sell for $2 then, if your analogy is valid.
Check out the AD store. Yes, GMoPs were given a 75% cut. But then they were REPLACED with a new SMOP of the same stratospheric price. Shell game.
And while trumpeting the cut in cost of two items - GMoPs and MoPs - no other staple - ID scrolls, AD Store companions or equipment, has changed in price. If your logic held, then a similar cut should happen to Flawless Sapphires and Cats alike. But they haven't.
I'm continuing to play - but will spend 0 real $$$. If enough players follow that model - they will listen. Afterall - a PWE dev can't cash an AD or ZEN check at the bank to pay their rent in the Real World, or buy a cup of coffee for that matter.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
The SMOPs are only used for enchantments ranked 11 and 12. Everything else-artifacts, artifact equipment, non-ridiculously high leveled enchantments-still use Greater Marks of Potency.
You can question the specific prices, but saying GMOPs were "replaced" by SMOPs is a gross distortion, and therefore damages the credibility of one's argument.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
You can question the specific prices, but saying GMOPs were "replaced" by SMOPs is a gross distortion, and therefore damages the credibility of one's argument.
I agree that it has temporarily lowered the cost. But it gives them an avenue to generate rank 13 and 14 "Extra-terrestrial transcendent enchants" that can be upgraded with many SMOPS. Give it 6 mos. Not Underdark, but whatever comes with Mod 10.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited September 2015
I like the exchange, if you willing to take a risk and have the disposable currency, you can make a tidy profit from buying and selling zen as the price fluctuates.
Also, to everyone complaining about it being lower then 500 and wanting it set at 500, you should read up on the concepts of "minimum price" and "maximum price" as well as price fixing, the price of zen is always going to be what people think its worth relative to AD, for a long time people thought it was worth more then 500, now though people think it is worth much less. It is lower then 500 simply because it is worth less then 500, even if you don't think so. Fixing the price of the currency is always going to be off from the equilibrium position when it comes to its value and is a horrible idea for this reason.
You might think that your zen isn't worth less then 500, but I am sorry to tell you, the playerbase does and they the ones that are buying your currency, so you got to live with it.
The AD:Zen ratio sitting at 500:1 (max) for so long clearly shows there is no working economy (or a HUGE abundunce of diamonds on the market driving their value so low) from those who are taking advantage of a system not as intended.
Aye ever since before caturday theres been billions of AD in bot hands, its already refined it was made by duping on AH so long as AD dont breakdown over time it will remain a issue unless people buy it all and making AD break down over times pretty sure to HAMSTER off any remaining vets or whales and require completely reworking economy also which they obviously arnt capable of case in point attempting reworking Leadership via just deleting portions of it
as for zen even at 50-1 zen it would still be cheaper to buy refinement off ah then to buy it off cryptic at 2000 zen for 150,ooo refinement.(although like coal wards im sure they plan to make them parity price with zen store in time) the lower the ZxA exchange the more the game costs its all about $xAD rate. zen only buys stuff at massivly above AH prices for stuff reasonably available in game.
its a pay to avoid grind model
Post edited by archanarchist on
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
And while trumpeting the cut in cost of two items - GMoPs and MoPs - no other staple - ID scrolls, AD Store companions or equipment, has changed in price. If your logic held, then a similar cut should happen to Flawless Sapphires and Cats alike. But they haven't.
The cut to the refinement marks was much more pressing (and needed, imho). Other changes are being examined, and I pretty certain we'll see more cuts to the "fixed" AD costs in this game going forward.
And while trumpeting the cut in cost of two items - GMoPs and MoPs - no other staple - ID scrolls, AD Store companions or equipment, has changed in price. If your logic held, then a similar cut should happen to Flawless Sapphires and Cats alike. But they haven't.
The cut to the refinement marks was much more pressing (and needed, imho). Other changes are being examined, and I pretty certain we'll see more cuts to the "fixed" AD costs in this game going forward.
Think this is just another way of saying everything will be fixed "soon" (TM).
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
And while trumpeting the cut in cost of two items - GMoPs and MoPs - no other staple - ID scrolls, AD Store companions or equipment, has changed in price. If your logic held, then a similar cut should happen to Flawless Sapphires and Cats alike. But they haven't.
The cut to the refinement marks was much more pressing (and needed, imho). Other changes are being examined, and I pretty certain we'll see more cuts to the "fixed" AD costs in this game going forward.
Think this is just another way of saying everything will be fixed "soon" (TM).
I actually have a positive outlook here and think that its likely we will be seeing fixes.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Those items you can reasonable obtain outside of buying them directly from the bazaar are of low priority. For instance, no one ever bought white pearls for AD or whatever from the vendors, because they were just grossly overpriced. They could have reduced the price, but there was no need to; it's not negatively impacting game balance.
No one should expect to buy scrolls from the bazaar, so it's low on the priority list. Augment cubes are probably the next thing that seriously need examining. Companion costs could be adjusted, but I'd say that's more on the optional side of things.
Yet again you misuse an economic term that you don't seem to understand. There's a difference between inflation (constantly increasing prices) and something being set at a fairly stable, but high level. Prices in Neverwinter have been overall fairly stable since a while after the time the Astral Resonator exploit got shut down.
No I fully understand it. Clearly you misinterpreted what I communicated--you choose to interpret it like a magic act. The AD Zen rate hasn't gone higher because 500:1 is the maximum rate, and it staying there too long was uncontrolled inflation. It also got their as result of an earlier exploit, further tipping the advantage to those buying Diamonds. Some people tell you they don't have enough AD, others desire as much as they can get as quick as possible, and aren't content with anything but BiS. The game is designed around being a moderate progression for most, those who want it faster the F2P market & Casual Zen purchasers help satisfy it, they sell rAD to earn Zen or subsidize a purchase, this allows everyone to contributes to revenue for the developer.
AD Zen ratio of 500:1 is inflation shows the lowest value for the currency, yet those happy it stays there who want higher refinement and uAD in game, is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. Those buying AD on the exchange have had a HUGE advantage getting diamonds at a very low rate. Most responding to this thread want higher refinement & more uAD rewards which increases the grind, yet equally have no issues expecting others to give up 500 AD for 1 zen by their own admission takes time to earn. It's like asking the vegetable farmer who grows your food to give you all his assets while he farms what is now your field for pennies...
The problem that the developers are trying to fix isn't some rampant pay-a-trillion-for-a-loaf-of-bread issue. It's simply that some players could generate too much AD for the developers' tastes. This also goes to illustrate why AD as a currency is flawed in NW, because it's also a raw material for production and gets consumed in the process of creating certain things. Essentially, the developers shut down the "factories" some players were running and are now trying to force everyone to be subsistence farmers in a communist utopia.
Well THANK YOU for clarifying the point... Are you saying you miss the days where individuals were able to greatly take advantage of the system in various ways not intented. The Exploit that raised the AD Zen Rate which caused rampid inflation, to those who bought items from unauthorized third parities, to the unintended harm caused by a those Leadership (Armies) on Gateway farming 24/7 using automatition--none of which were intended by the developer?
You were the one that made the erroneous and stupid claim that "cash disappeared" -- I simply corrected you that it was a loss of liquidity, not cash disappearing. It seems you've grasped that, though. Maybe reading those Wikipedia articles you looked at helped you out?
No I think the majority knew exactly what I was referring, they didn't need to be led from a to c to e. Some inept individuals (lacking knowledge or understanding) may have misunderstood, not because I believe people are stupid, but simply not recognized 'b' & 'd' to get to 'e' because they spoke Dragonborn or Elf.
A larger abundance of AD around worked out to the advantage of players overall. They're not "fixing" this to help any players. It helped players pay for the excessive AD sinks in the game -- which they've partially alleviated, but there are many, many still remaining. The ZAX being high also incentivized paying players to spend; a mediocre ZAX effectively raises the game's prices in real terms -- which may be good for the studio's short-term profits, but not for the players and quite possibly not for the game's long-term profits.
Are you refering to a larger abundance in the former 'non communist utopian' paradise you referred to above? You see how easy it is to twist or take things out of context? I'll presume your intelligent were referring to the reduced AD rewards for daily mission & hourly bonus quests recently. Since I am a person who has invested time & money in the game players do want a reasonable sense of accomplishment for advancing characters be they boons, gear & item improvements, or upgrading companions or mounts, along with XP rewards at semi-regular intervals--no one is going to argue against that.
The challenge is a fair system where everyone gets fair rewards in game, and one that prevents a limited few from taking advantage of situations. Buying more characters to refine a little more Diamonds if fair, buying AD on the Exchange or selling items from lockboxes is fair--but some thing occured that greatly tipped the advantage. Leadership Gateway was another example that was abused, some constantly farming 24/7 character armies through automation as not intended. Similar reasons were given for Peridoes & Aquas being clawed back from HE encounters in IceWind Dale--I'd rather see HE rewards bound to character. But I'm not a machine it would have taken me two or three months to upgrade most my artifact gear to purple. I can't run circle after circle, from HE to HE hours on end, day after day--but if they weren't Bots many did exactly that. I bet it surprised the developer, many remember the lag was heavy on those maps.
If you spend $20.00 (2000 zen) at an exchange rate of 300:1 you instantly gain 600,000 refined AD or the equivalent of 25 days full refinement that likely took someone several months (a few hours a day) to earn in game. But there are other methods which require more patience and luck such as selling items from lockboxes on auction for AD. Other Cryptic games have a Exchange Rate closer to 225:1 and their user communities find it of fair value for the time invested or which they save.
I think an overhaul of the economy would be okay. If they had a coherent plan for how to go about it, rather than "we'll kick this over, burn this down and then maybe see what happens" -- which is pretty much what they have done. If they had presented a clear plan and been respectful about it, rather than talking about "bots did it", the reception would likely have been different. However, they still haven't provided a clear plan, simply a band-aid on a gaping wound.
Well I think I'm detecting a change in the tone in the last paragraph or two, wish this was the place we started from as it may have turned constructive earlier. As I also think an overhaul of the economy would be not only be okay but required and it's the reason behind this thread. I'm glad the developer is looking into it and will hopefully look to address some concerns raised in this thread. Unfortunately they won't always be able to offer advanced notice, we can only HOPE they hear our issues and their response is fair. I certainly appreciate the GMOP price reduction, and would like it extended to a 'few' other items in the Wonderous Bazaar. One example voiced was reducing Mount Training II & III so event mounts like Starry Panther or Award Winning Pig could be trained for less than an EPIC mount on the auction, in addition to costs to upgrade or train companions.
Changes that help improve the gameplay so players more get artifacts to purple (median standard) required for most end game content a few months after starting a new character, or assisting players increase gearscore (2200-2400) by upgrading enchantments to compete in various EPIC Dungeons--those things I should be well received by the player community.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Unfortunately they won't always be able to offer advanced notice, we can only HOPE they hear our issues and their response is fair.
This. You are hoping Cryptic will make it work. The game seems on a downward trend to me. Cryptic rarely does things we HOPE they will do. When they do, it takes many months. They took close to six months to reduce difficulty after STATING that they would back in April, for example.
Indeed the problem is how fast they react to problems. Lets be fair, based on steam charts after the ads changes the population dropped of 40%. Ofc they changed the gmop price, it was not a favour, still i appreciated it. Now lets talk about 2k rewards, 5k key price and reinforcements kits. Boon prices after all its still kinda fair
I think some of the people do not understand. Zen is real money, AD - is game currency. If people do not spend real money, the game wont be able to exist as developers cannot pay rent and salaries with AD. Now people including me do not want to buy zen because it is not worth the real money. Guess how long will it last? Zen must be more precious than AD. Now i can spend some money but i have nothing to buy in zen store.
I think some of the people do not understand. Zen is real money, AD - is game currency. If people do not spend real money, the game wont be able to exist as developers cannot pay rent and salaries with AD. Now people including me do not want to buy zen because it is not worth the real money. Guess how long will it last? Zen must be more precious than AD. Now i can spend some money but i have nothing to buy in zen store.
Let me just point out, your zen is just as valuable as it was before, everything is becoming significantly cheaper so whilst you will get less AD for your zen, the AD you get is worth more. That smaller amount of AD has more buying power and can do more then it could when it was at 1:500. If you think its not worth buying AD now with zen, then you don't actually understand all the changes that are occurring in the economy.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree, the Hours played vs money spent ratio should always favour hours played, but rather then try and explain it myself, ill let someone else who has explained it fairly well, do it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z-3cFiJMCY
About 5 minutes in. Yes, its an old video and yes, the game still does not have a competitive pve environment, but if it ever does, for those reasons, its important then time>money.
Comments
It is a pretty basic Economic model and they really should get a Consultant back in to take a look at it and maybe refresh the model.
it needs to float because the optimal range is determined based on the purchasing power of astral diamonds and the purchasing power of zen, which both float both on a player economy basis, and on a basis of costs of Wondrous Bazaar items and Zenshop items.
Yet to incorrectly say that reducing the refinement cap limit would result in costs doubling you're wrong. There's a lot of people that list items far beyond fair market value, and to address this perhaps a higher auction listing price (non refundable for unsold items) and smaller auction commission is required. Inflation is the increase in the cost of goods CAUSED by the fall in the value of money--increasing refinement & uAD rewards in game expand it. It's likely why Cryptic started first by dropping the cost of GMOPs and may expand to other items prior to dropping refinement.
I'm lost by all those who suggest economic prosperty (higher earnings and refinement) will see the cost of goods decrease in value--whereas the opposite is actually true. During the Great Depression, cash disappeared, you could buy things for "pennies on the dollar". Since most don't understand basic economic concepts this is not the best forum for intellectual conversation.
Cryptic keep up the excellent work as you work to balance the economy!
Perhaps you should read the whole thread... No one is naive to suggest the money vanished, an economy is depending on the circulation of currency, primarily because 80% of people are not sitting on stockpiles of it. When the earning potential of the majority was cut off, 90% no longer had a regular supply or very little of it, so I dare you to ask them if it felt like it vanished even though it did not. The United States saw an increase in unemployment by 607%, Great Britian of 129%, France 214% and Germany 232%. That is what causes deflation of items and while you'd not wish to see this occur, neither would want to see inflation equally out of control which can be just as bad or even worse, as is the case with our market. Cause right now Inflation is and has been out of control for a prolonged period, and some economic stablization policies need to be implemented to control it and get the ecnomy back on stable ground..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
It is like our market is flooded in diamonds regardless of what your opinion, people don't expect a lot for the diamonds they offer right now and that is a clear fact. The only reason is because they were in the past far to easy to acquire and/or refinement limits are too high. You may disagree with that being the state of the game today but it was what lead us down that path. If that were not true people should be demanding a rate of 250:1 because their diamonds are more valuable to them. While there is no interest rate the developer can influence, the user activity shows very little value for the currency in exchange for goods, so cutting the rate of the SMOPs/GMOPs by 20-75% is in effect the same as a large interest rate change. That is the primary means for which the governing body has to influence market rates aside from reducing the refining cap.
Clearly the markets response reducing the AD Zen rate from 500:1 down to 410:1 in a few short days is proof of that, I would like to see this activity to continue the downward trend as other policies are implemented to increase the value of money (AD). I welcome the work the developers have done in this regard. The end result is us DOING MORE--WITH LESS and we should encourage more of that even if a refinement cap is reduced.
'cause, like, people started droppin RL economic references, which inevitably goes horribly horribly wrong.
Strathkin, the "gold" backing up Zen is RL currency. People are going to exchange a lot less RL$ for 250,000 AD @ $10. You're not looking at a weak Zen, but an unaffordable game.
It took NWO like 3.5 years to develop all the AD sinks currently existing in game. Just becaue they deflated the GMOP doesn't mean they are going to re-tread everything. The economy has been at 500:1 for at least half it's existence and most of the sinks were built around that fact. I thought the game cost too much at 500:1, esp. when a good subscription game can be had for $20/mo.--$240/yr.
If the AD sinks were adjusted to match GMOP costs, then you should expect the net purchasing power of the AD to be 4x higher, meaning a 250:1 ratio would actually make the zen have more real purchasing power than it did before.
The nominal value of the zen in terms of AD is irrelevant. What's relevant is the purchasing power of the zen, in terms of gameplay elements.
I mean, you could have theoretically gotten the same result just by lifting the AD ceiling on the ZAX, but the economic system in NWO has long since strongly encouraged leadership armies, and they didn't want to keep doing that, so they did the opposite route.
If they do re-tread the AD sinks, it's going to take months at the rate they move. The GMOP change would have shown good faith if they'd done it when they killed LS, instead of as a bone they threw afterward to screaming mobs.
And within 6 mos. they will have another big game-breaking CAT-astrophe, like Mod 6 followed by Leadership nerf, followed by ?. The management seems to thrive on the turmoil.
This game's economy does not work like real life economics. Nobody just turns off the Aquamarines and Peridots when they decide you've had too much. But it happens in Neverwinter.
TLDR: Game managers are an outlier in this economy, there are more variables than you think.
Check out the AD store. Yes, GMoPs were given a 75% cut. But then they were REPLACED with a new SMOP of the same stratospheric price. Shell game.
And while trumpeting the cut in cost of two items - GMoPs and MoPs - no other staple - ID scrolls, AD Store companions or equipment, has changed in price. If your logic held, then a similar cut should happen to Flawless Sapphires and Cats alike. But they haven't.
I'm continuing to play - but will spend 0 real $$$. If enough players follow that model - they will listen. Afterall - a PWE dev can't cash an AD or ZEN check at the bank to pay their rent in the Real World, or buy a cup of coffee for that matter.
You can question the specific prices, but saying GMOPs were "replaced" by SMOPs is a gross distortion, and therefore damages the credibility of one's argument.
Also, to everyone complaining about it being lower then 500 and wanting it set at 500, you should read up on the concepts of "minimum price" and "maximum price" as well as price fixing, the price of zen is always going to be what people think its worth relative to AD, for a long time people thought it was worth more then 500, now though people think it is worth much less. It is lower then 500 simply because it is worth less then 500, even if you don't think so. Fixing the price of the currency is always going to be off from the equilibrium position when it comes to its value and is a horrible idea for this reason.
You might think that your zen isn't worth less then 500, but I am sorry to tell you, the playerbase does and they the ones that are buying your currency, so you got to live with it.
so long as AD dont breakdown over time it will remain a issue unless people buy it all and making AD break down over times pretty sure to HAMSTER off any remaining vets or whales and require completely reworking economy also which they obviously arnt capable of case in point attempting reworking Leadership via just deleting portions of it
as for zen even at 50-1 zen it would still be cheaper to buy refinement off ah then to buy it off cryptic at 2000 zen for 150,ooo refinement.(although like coal wards im sure they plan to make them parity price with zen store in time)
the lower the ZxA exchange the more the game costs its all about $xAD rate. zen only buys stuff at massivly above AH prices for stuff reasonably available in game.
its a pay to avoid grind model
No one should expect to buy scrolls from the bazaar, so it's low on the priority list. Augment cubes are probably the next thing that seriously need examining. Companion costs could be adjusted, but I'd say that's more on the optional side of things.
AD Zen ratio of 500:1 is inflation shows the lowest value for the currency, yet those happy it stays there who want higher refinement and uAD in game, is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. Those buying AD on the exchange have had a HUGE advantage getting diamonds at a very low rate. Most responding to this thread want higher refinement & more uAD rewards which increases the grind, yet equally have no issues expecting others to give up 500 AD for 1 zen by their own admission takes time to earn. It's like asking the vegetable farmer who grows your food to give you all his assets while he farms what is now your field for pennies... Well THANK YOU for clarifying the point... Are you saying you miss the days where individuals were able to greatly take advantage of the system in various ways not intented. The Exploit that raised the AD Zen Rate which caused rampid inflation, to those who bought items from unauthorized third parities, to the unintended harm caused by a those Leadership (Armies) on Gateway farming 24/7 using automatition--none of which were intended by the developer? No I think the majority knew exactly what I was referring, they didn't need to be led from a to c to e. Some inept individuals (lacking knowledge or understanding) may have misunderstood, not because I believe people are stupid, but simply not recognized 'b' & 'd' to get to 'e' because they spoke Dragonborn or Elf. Are you refering to a larger abundance in the former 'non communist utopian' paradise you referred to above? You see how easy it is to twist or take things out of context? I'll presume your intelligent were referring to the reduced AD rewards for daily mission & hourly bonus quests recently. Since I am a person who has invested time & money in the game players do want a reasonable sense of accomplishment for advancing characters be they boons, gear & item improvements, or upgrading companions or mounts, along with XP rewards at semi-regular intervals--no one is going to argue against that.
The challenge is a fair system where everyone gets fair rewards in game, and one that prevents a limited few from taking advantage of situations. Buying more characters to refine a little more Diamonds if fair, buying AD on the Exchange or selling items from lockboxes is fair--but some thing occured that greatly tipped the advantage. Leadership Gateway was another example that was abused, some constantly farming 24/7 character armies through automation as not intended. Similar reasons were given for Peridoes & Aquas being clawed back from HE encounters in IceWind Dale--I'd rather see HE rewards bound to character. But I'm not a machine it would have taken me two or three months to upgrade most my artifact gear to purple. I can't run circle after circle, from HE to HE hours on end, day after day--but if they weren't Bots many did exactly that. I bet it surprised the developer, many remember the lag was heavy on those maps.
If you spend $20.00 (2000 zen) at an exchange rate of 300:1 you instantly gain 600,000 refined AD or the equivalent of 25 days full refinement that likely took someone several months (a few hours a day) to earn in game. But there are other methods which require more patience and luck such as selling items from lockboxes on auction for AD. Other Cryptic games have a Exchange Rate closer to 225:1 and their user communities find it of fair value for the time invested or which they save. Well I think I'm detecting a change in the tone in the last paragraph or two, wish this was the place we started from as it may have turned constructive earlier. As I also think an overhaul of the economy would be not only be okay but required and it's the reason behind this thread. I'm glad the developer is looking into it and will hopefully look to address some concerns raised in this thread. Unfortunately they won't always be able to offer advanced notice, we can only HOPE they hear our issues and their response is fair. I certainly appreciate the GMOP price reduction, and would like it extended to a 'few' other items in the Wonderous Bazaar. One example voiced was reducing Mount Training II & III so event mounts like Starry Panther or Award Winning Pig could be trained for less than an EPIC mount on the auction, in addition to costs to upgrade or train companions.
Changes that help improve the gameplay so players more get artifacts to purple (median standard) required for most end game content a few months after starting a new character, or assisting players increase gearscore (2200-2400) by upgrading enchantments to compete in various EPIC Dungeons--those things I should be well received by the player community.
Ofc they changed the gmop price, it was not a favour, still i appreciated it.
Now lets talk about 2k rewards, 5k key price and reinforcements kits.
Boon prices after all its still kinda fair
Zen must be more precious than AD. Now i can spend some money but i have nothing to buy in zen store.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree, the Hours played vs money spent ratio should always favour hours played, but rather then try and explain it myself, ill let someone else who has explained it fairly well, do it for me:
About 5 minutes in. Yes, its an old video and yes, the game still does not have a competitive pve environment, but if it ever does, for those reasons, its important then time>money.