The VIP program

quspiv

It's a nice copy from RIFT patron (those who played will know why), except NWO is more grindy. It's pretty good, but imo some bonuses are a bit over the top.

I would rather see more cool cosmetics items than discount for Bazar or no AH fee.

theycallmetomu

No AH fee is a definite no go methinks. The AH fee serves a pretty substantial purpose, in extracting AD from the community.

If you had the ability to buy items from the Bazaar at a discount, the discount would have to be either less than 10% (so that people don't just buy the item, then resell it on the AH-here's where that AH fee serves its purpose BTW), or bound to account.

karakla1

It is a pretty good deal.
The only thing that bothers me is the 10.000 HP for a VIP-Party. On PvE not much of a game breaker and a nice buff. But PvP it could break it much more than it is now.

The Auction House fee is no biggy. If i understand it correctly it means not the 10% fee that is consumed, it means the fee that you get back if you sold your item. Which means you didn't lose money if you must re-publish your offer.

beckylunatic

karakla1 wrote: »

The Auction House fee is no biggy. If i understand it correctly it means not the 10% fee that is consumed, it means the fee that you get back if you sold your item. Which means you didn't lose money if you must re-publish your offer.

Yes, it's the listing fee, not the house cut from sales.

It does make listing big ticket items or iffy sellers risk-free.

theycallmetomu

oh man, I hadn't even seen the announcement about the VIP program when I posted here. Ha ha.

The thing that struck my eye was, 1 free enchanted key per day? That more than pays for itself just at level 1. Or, rather, it would-but this is going to drastically devalue the items dropped from lockboxes, to the point where no one should ever buy a key individually.

OH HOLY <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>! The Wondrous Bazaar reduction DOES go beyond 10% O_O

You just know people are gonna buy things from the bazaar and resell them on the AH, for 1 to 15% under the bazaar price. Well, assuming they're not BtA on pickup.

wyckedstudios

Hmmmm.....take away the most convenient way to earn AD (gateway), then introduce a consistent money-sink, that is actually desirable to have.

If I was still able to do Leadership from work, I could actually afford to do this....

theycallmetomu

Eh, AD from leadership won't be helpful for getting zen to purchase the VIP pack, since you're going to see the backlog even higher.

Being a rank 12 VIP is just AMAZINGLY lucrative as they have things listed. The whales will probably end up immediately buying 12 months worth of VIP packs so that they can go ahead and get max ranks immediately. This'll allow them to buy bazaar items at -25% price, meaning they can sell them on the AH for, say, 10 to 15% less than the bazaar price and still make a profit. No risk, fast returns, it's just a direct money making scheme. Add in the free enchanted keys every day, and you'd be foolish NOT to get the VIP pass-

-which means everyone will try and get VIP points without spending RL dollars, meaning it'll be impossible to, eg the zen backlog will be back in the millions.

But, that's what happens when you introduce something worth buying in a F2P game.

karakla1

theycallmetomu wrote: »

The thing that struck my eye was, 1 free enchanted key per day? That more than pays for itself just at level 1. Or, rather, it would-but this is going to drastically devalue the items dropped from lockboxes, to the point where no one should ever buy a key individually.

That is pretty great because the items drop in price and not VIP users like our beloved freeplayers come in reach to buy the stuff cheaper. (Win Win Situation)

theycallmetomu

Basically, the cost of Keys has been reduced to 33.5 zen, and the cost of lockbox items is going to adjust accordingly.

That's actually vastly understating things, since people will want the VIP pack for reasons other than just the free keys (though it's telling that those are a tier 1 reward: they realize that's the most appealing thing, and don't want to discourage people from grabbing it).

I mean, let's be frank: this basically turns the game into a f2P with a subscription model. But, the benefits redound to F2P players so I'm actually totally in favor of this change. I just hope the community sees things the same way.

quspiv

I wouldnt call it a Win-Win situation where you need to wait 1 month to get 200 ZEN, because backlog will go beyond 9kk in no time, since these bonuses are THAT good.

theycallmetomu

The VIP itself has some drawbacks to people who want zen items directly, yes. I expect preservation wards and coal wards to go up in price for the reason you state. But lockbox items will go down drastically in price on the AH.

For myself, I'm probably going to hold off on purchasing zen items (I've been using coupons to buy high value zen items, selling them on the AH for cheaper than you could get them w/o the coupon, and using the proceeds to buy up more zen) so that I have enough to buy VIP packs for when they launch.

Of course, they might end up adding a bunch of caveats. The worst things they could do, in no particular order:

1.) Make all Wondrous Bazaar purchases BtA (probably the leastBad thing they could do)
2.) Make all lockbox items BtA on pickup (AWFUL!!!)
3.) Ummm, some other stuff, I really should have thought more before starting this list.

oldbaldyone

oldbaldyone wrote: »

So basically, for 5m AD initial investment and then 500k per month after, you can get:

25% discount on WB
Portable Bank, Mailbox, Teleport, Salvage
No AH Posting Fees
Immunity To Injuries
10% salvage bonus
a bunch of useless ID scrolls (this is a joke right?)
3 Delve Keys Per Day Per Character
10% Increased Rough AD from invoking and Invoke Anywhere
Group Buff
15% Bonus AD on events
1 Enchanted Key (again, PER Character...so 50+ keys in some cases) My bad, it is per acct
Moonstone Mask access
XP bonus and Profession/Training speed cost bonuses

After being lied to about companions, I hesitate to really jump on board since this could change any second with or without notice...but this seems like a fair deal.

beckylunatic

The thing is, once people unlock rank 12, they're paid up for over nearly a year and don't need to buy more VIP days until the time runs short. There'll be an immediate bubble in Zen demand, but it needn't last.

Edit: typed wrong word

theycallmetomu

The enchanted keys are per account.

oldbaldyone

Once people realize the keys are per character, if it stays that way....these will say. Have to applaud them for this one I think...this will take a TON of AD out of the system. At worst, its a good start.

I REALLY expected to see the Gateway and Leadership involved in it

wyckedstudios

theycallmetomu wrote: »

Of course, they might end up adding a bunch of caveats. The worst things they could do, in no particular order:

1.) Make all Wondrous Bazaar purchases BtA (probably the leastBad thing they could do)
2.) Make all lockbox items BtA on pickup (AWFUL!!!)
3.) Ummm, some other stuff, I really should have thought more before starting this list.

Doing these would greatly reduce how desirable the VIP package will be to many players... Being as this seems to be the best attempt they've made to increase their income, and it doesn't outright screw average players over, I would hope that they'd want to give it as wide of an appeal as possible.

theycallmetomu

Right now, the VIP package will cause some of the uberwhale types to immediately buy up a year's worth of VIP points. This will allow the more savvy ones to sell items on the AH for 84% of the wondrous bazaar level (though initially the rate will be higher), while still getting profit.

Basically, this VIP system is Cryptic's way of lowering the cost of wondrous bazaar items by up to 15%

ambisinisterr

oldbaldyone wrote: »

Once people realize the keys are per character, if it stays that way....these will say. Have to applaud them for this one I think...this will take a TON of AD out of the system. At worst, its a good start.

I REALLY expected to see the Gateway and Leadership involved in it

It is very specifically and clearly stated that Enchanted Keys are once per day per account.
Nor would this take AD out of the system TBH. If anything it would add AD in the system as some lockbox rewards are AD.

theycallmetomu

But, I mean, that's still tremendously cheaper than buying keys directly with zen. So people will open lockboxes, sell what they find on the AH, and it essentially means that those items are going to cost a whole lot less.

balorin

Remove the hp bonus for PVP . . .

theycallmetomu

I do think the HP bonus is pretty wonky, yeah. Because you're basically giving a team of 5 people who are all VIP players +10000 HP.

ambisinisterr

balorin wrote: »

Remove the hp bonus for PVP . . .

That is the one perk I do not agree with. Get the feedback going and we will make sure it is heard.

theycallmetomu

It's conveniently placed at rank 3, aka what you get if you blow 2700 zen out of the gate.

darthpotater

And people who has lots of GMoP saved as currency have not much time to sell all

beckylunatic

The HP bonus should probably be disabled in PvP, since it's a blatant advantage against non-VIP participants.

I'm indifferent on PvE... losing it completely wouldn't be a dealbreaker by any means since the other VIP advantages are good value, but I think keeping it fits with the state of the game... unless *not* being able to pay for a big party HP buff would mean a wee tone-down on those minion-inflicted one-shots people are complaining about. Cough.

theycallmetomu

Even at 5 people, it's only +10000 HP. That's definitely significant, but if something's one shotting you, not sure how much difference 10000 HP is gonna make.

kvet

So - just to clarify. Per Character means you get those on ALL CHARACTERS on your account - as opposed to having to by this Per Character, whereas the Per Account means you get that once a day on your account, not per character.

I'm reading this to mean these bonuses are account unlocks across all characters... @strumslinger can you please clarify? Like I said, I originally took Per Character to mean "each" character, but I just got a funny though that Per might mean ONE character per purchase... just would like to know which it is. Thanks!

theycallmetomu

There's no meaningful way to read it other than you buy it for your entire account, and some features are per account and some are per character.

I mean, if you had to buy it for multiple characters, it'd be impossible for there to be per account limits. Unless you just don't get all the benefits when you apply it to multiple characters.

So, I sincerely doubt that's how it works.

kvet

No, you can read it such that - per character that opens the box, you get THIS. In addition, you get one free key for one character on your account per day. I realize it would feel a little wonky if you had to open a box per character for that character to get the rewards (the VIP rank seems like it should be account-wide, not per character, for example), but since it wasn't stated clearly in the post, I thought I'd ask for clarification since it's sort of an important point.

theycallmetomu

Oh will you look at that, zen backlog has jumped 300k just since the VIP package was released.

karakla1

I don't know where the problem is to pay 10 bucks for the VIP subscription. Okay, the game is free2play and some people doesn't want to pay, i get it, but sometimes i find it strange that people saying "i played this game for over 2.000 hours, for 2 years and never payed a cent"