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Introducing the VIP Program

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    zachariah92zachariah92 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    As for all the doom-and-gloomers: looks like you're on the wrong side with this one as the commentary is 95% for than against. Looks like this will be a successful program for Cryptic even though you don't want it to be.

    Foundry: more than 100 bugs reported and ignored. Who is in the wrong side?
    NW - DD69G42V2 - The Stolen Dragon Egg
    NWS - DPVINV31F - La Corona de la Sombra
    NW - DTKMPU3RQ - Contest: Portal - The Forgotten
    NW-DRTBVIVMU - Drowned Shore: Disembark #DS#
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    zachariah92zachariah92 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    quspiv wrote: »
    You could give foundry authors (high ranked ones, maybe from foundry master and up, with a minimum of daily foundries published) some kind of ViP, as we are generating "infinite" content, and sometimes, in some gamer's opinion, far better content than yours.




    are you kidding right? nobody is forcing you to generate this "infinite content". If some players are enjoying what you've created, fine. Let those players reward your efforts if they want to. The point is, this is MMO and not some Foundry generator, so dont expect better rewards than those who actually play the game.

    The core of D&D is storytelling... But, hey, if you want to buy the new carrot, go ahead!
    NW - DD69G42V2 - The Stolen Dragon Egg
    NWS - DPVINV31F - La Corona de la Sombra
    NW - DTKMPU3RQ - Contest: Portal - The Forgotten
    NW-DRTBVIVMU - Drowned Shore: Disembark #DS#
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    deathbeezdeathbeez Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 789 Arc User
    Toss in a respec token once a month, per account?
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    First of all there are very few, if any, tradeable items as Graalx3 pointed out. There will be a new interface to claim rewards and they will not end up in your inventory except in some rare exceptions such as the enchanted keys.

    When lockboxes are opened, as far as Strumslinger is aware, they will behave normally. Just note the steam and validation limitations will more than likely still apply.

    Portable items such as the mailboxes will not be tradeable but players near you will be able to operate them as well.
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    jaydenomega812jaydenomega812 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    Ahhh just like opening a cold coke on a hot day. 25k 110 mounts here we come!! Or maybe it will be 25k 140 mounts since the eternal flame box is current right now :)

    Well yup now I've thought it thru I'm excited!!
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    karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    I definetly buy it, but i hope they rework the Group Buff. If i go PvP i don't wanna win because of VIP Status. Most enjoyable PvP Fights are the most balanced ones and if you only win because that you are a VIP it is unfair for the none VIP users and left a bad taste in my mouth as VIP User. So please refrain from implementing this Buff in PvP.

    PvE wise i think it is okay. 10.000 Hit Points is a nice buff and nothing game breaking.
    plat.png
    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited August 2015
    That was the first thing I noticed after the keys karakla. Yeah my response to that was less than enthusiastic.

    Post a feedback thread asking for it to not apply in PvP. They devs heard our voices on the matter but we are only five people. ;)
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    matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I thought Mod 6 was the low point standard wise, but apperently it can go lower.

    The 2 new mounts and this PVP buff are 100% PVP game breaking. There are already 2 "nasty things" with new mounts... The PVP HP buff is frankly more obvious to all and a disaster also. Now combine the mounts, an AP build, AP weapon, some artifacts and this HP buff and the poor opponent, who doesn't have them, doesn't even need to start in PVP, loss already confirmed, way before match has even started.
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

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    silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    We all knew when the info was originally leaked that this would more than likely happen. I am on the fence about it but the keys and injury immunity are intriguing. I'll wait a few days after this becomes operational to see if the lockbox items are BoP, BtA or BoE. That's the biggest sticking point to me.

    If they are BoE, then Shut Up and Take My Money :)



    I aim to misbehave
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    charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    VIP Package of 180 days gives 600 points or only rank 6 in the first purchase? I want to know if the purchase of two packages already makes me rank 12 for 1 year.
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    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    Okay, just a reminder to some people who apparently think the VIP pass shouldn't be zen based:

    It does not matter whether or not botters or "real players" purchase the VIP passes. Every time someone spends 1000 zen, that's 10 dollars in Cryptic's pocket. Zen doesn't appear out of nowhere; every 100 zen is a dollar someone, somewhere, spent. "But the zen backlog-" what about the zen backlog? If people care enough to spend 10 dollars to buy it with real money, why wouldn't they be willing to spend 10 dollars to buy the zen too get it when they otherwise won't be able to because of the backlog?

    Ordinarily, the answer would be obvious: the promise of the potential to not spend money is pretty high; that is, some people who, without the promise of getting zen from the zen exchange, would buy it directly but because of the zen exchange will just wait. But I'll give a reminder that with the VIP pass, you end up losing money every day you have to wait-because those are days you're not getting enchanted keys. So that normal instinct is a great deal weaker.

    The AD exchange makes it so people who want to have AD can have AD by selling their zen. They are buying that AD indirectly, and the F2Pers are facilitating that process. Saying that F2Pers that buy zen through the exchange are leaches is just amazingly ignorant of how the whole process works.

    If someone is given a gift card with a month's subscription to World of Warcraft, are they a leach? No, of course not. But buying zen is basically just getting a gift card from someone in exchange for in-game currency.

    Well, not that I expect to change anyone's mind with simple reason.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited August 2015
    VIP Package of 180 days gives 600 points or only rank 6 in the first purchase? I want to know if the purchase of two packages already makes me rank 12 for 1 year.

    Buying 2 packages of 180 or 12 packages of 30 will get you Tier 12 right off the bat.

    None of it is time gated. You can buy your way to rank 12 right away with any combination of VIP purchases that would result in you obtaining 360 Days of VIP status.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    silence1x wrote: »
    I'll wait a few days after this becomes operational to see if the lockbox items are BoP, BtA or BoE. That's the biggest sticking point to me.

    As long as the packages are not stuck behind the validation process the keys should work as normal lockbox keys. If you are a first time purchaser or are purchasing through steam it will likely result in lockbox items being BoA for the first few days.

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    linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Okay, just a reminder to some people who apparently think the VIP pass shouldn't be zen based:

    It does not matter whether or not botters or "real players" purchase the VIP passes. Every time someone spends 1000 zen, that's 10 dollars in Cryptic's pocket. Zen doesn't appear out of nowhere; every 100 zen is a dollar someone, somewhere, spent. "But the zen backlog-" what about the zen backlog? If people care enough to spend 10 dollars to buy it with real money, why wouldn't they be willing to spend 10 dollars to buy the zen too get it when they otherwise won't be able to because of the backlog?

    Ordinarily, the answer would be obvious: the promise of the potential to not spend money is pretty high; that is, some people who, without the promise of getting zen from the zen exchange, would buy it directly but because of the zen exchange will just wait. But I'll give a reminder that with the VIP pass, you end up losing money every day you have to wait-because those are days you're not getting enchanted keys. So that normal instinct is a great deal weaker.

    The AD exchange makes it so people who want to have AD can have AD by selling their zen. They are buying that AD indirectly, and the F2Pers are facilitating that process. Saying that F2Pers that buy zen through the exchange are leaches is just amazingly ignorant of how the whole process works.

    If someone is given a gift card with a month's subscription to World of Warcraft, are they a leach? No, of course not. But buying zen is basically just getting a gift card from someone in exchange for in-game currency.

    Well, not that I expect to change anyone's mind with simple reason.

    I agree with your reasoning. It doesn't matter who buys the ZEN - Cryptic still get their money. Cryptic is almost certainly expecting that excess ZEN will be removed from circulation by this, and that will force players to buy ZEN with $RL rather than wait a month to get it from the ZAX using AD. But the backlog on the ZAX will render the ZAX useless for any short-term purpose. Players will keep the ZAX endlessly backed-up with requests for ZEN to buy VIP-thingamies. As long as people are happy that the ZAX serves the main purpose of allowing ZEN buyers to sell ZEN instantaneously at 500AD per ZEN, as you described, then there isn't a problem. As a not-paid-up member of the Greater Protector's Enclave Leeches and Abusers Society, I'm happy to wait for my ZEN.
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    silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    You could give foundry authors (high ranked ones, maybe from foundry master and up, with a minimum of daily foundries published) some kind of ViP, as we are generating "infinite" content, and sometimes, in some gamer's opinion, far better content than yours.




    Foundry Author VIP Feedback
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    silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    linaduin wrote: »
    Okay, just a reminder to some people who apparently think the VIP pass shouldn't be zen based:

    It does not matter whether or not botters or "real players" purchase the VIP passes. Every time someone spends 1000 zen, that's 10 dollars in Cryptic's pocket. Zen doesn't appear out of nowhere; every 100 zen is a dollar someone, somewhere, spent. "But the zen backlog-" what about the zen backlog? If people care enough to spend 10 dollars to buy it with real money, why wouldn't they be willing to spend 10 dollars to buy the zen too get it when they otherwise won't be able to because of the backlog?

    Ordinarily, the answer would be obvious: the promise of the potential to not spend money is pretty high; that is, some people who, without the promise of getting zen from the zen exchange, would buy it directly but because of the zen exchange will just wait. But I'll give a reminder that with the VIP pass, you end up losing money every day you have to wait-because those are days you're not getting enchanted keys. So that normal instinct is a great deal weaker.

    The AD exchange makes it so people who want to have AD can have AD by selling their zen. They are buying that AD indirectly, and the F2Pers are facilitating that process. Saying that F2Pers that buy zen through the exchange are leaches is just amazingly ignorant of how the whole process works.

    If someone is given a gift card with a month's subscription to World of Warcraft, are they a leach? No, of course not. But buying zen is basically just getting a gift card from someone in exchange for in-game currency.

    Well, not that I expect to change anyone's mind with simple reason.

    I agree with your reasoning. It doesn't matter who buys the ZEN - Cryptic still get their money. Cryptic is almost certainly expecting that excess ZEN will be removed from circulation by this, and that will force players to buy ZEN with $RL rather than wait a month to get it from the ZAX using AD. But the backlog on the ZAX will render the ZAX useless for any short-term purpose. Players will keep the ZAX endlessly backed-up with requests for ZEN to buy VIP-thingamies. As long as people are happy that the ZAX serves the main purpose of allowing ZEN buyers to sell ZEN instantaneously at 500AD per ZEN, as you described, then there isn't a problem. As a not-paid-up member of the Greater Protector's Enclave Leeches and Abusers Society, I'm happy to wait for my ZEN.

    I think that the exchange backlog will continue to grow for a while and then quickly start to clear out to something more reasonable. The AD costs in Stronghold will make it attractive for guilds to purchase AD with ZEN. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.

    And maybe players who buy their way to max VIP will want to buy AD afterwards to take advantage of their Bazaar discounts.
    ​​
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    linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    linaduin wrote: »
    Okay, just a reminder to some people who apparently think the VIP pass shouldn't be zen based:

    It does not matter whether or not botters or "real players" purchase the VIP passes. Every time someone spends 1000 zen, that's 10 dollars in Cryptic's pocket. Zen doesn't appear out of nowhere; every 100 zen is a dollar someone, somewhere, spent. "But the zen backlog-" what about the zen backlog? If people care enough to spend 10 dollars to buy it with real money, why wouldn't they be willing to spend 10 dollars to buy the zen too get it when they otherwise won't be able to because of the backlog?

    Ordinarily, the answer would be obvious: the promise of the potential to not spend money is pretty high; that is, some people who, without the promise of getting zen from the zen exchange, would buy it directly but because of the zen exchange will just wait. But I'll give a reminder that with the VIP pass, you end up losing money every day you have to wait-because those are days you're not getting enchanted keys. So that normal instinct is a great deal weaker.

    The AD exchange makes it so people who want to have AD can have AD by selling their zen. They are buying that AD indirectly, and the F2Pers are facilitating that process. Saying that F2Pers that buy zen through the exchange are leaches is just amazingly ignorant of how the whole process works.

    If someone is given a gift card with a month's subscription to World of Warcraft, are they a leach? No, of course not. But buying zen is basically just getting a gift card from someone in exchange for in-game currency.

    Well, not that I expect to change anyone's mind with simple reason.

    I agree with your reasoning. It doesn't matter who buys the ZEN - Cryptic still get their money. Cryptic is almost certainly expecting that excess ZEN will be removed from circulation by this, and that will force players to buy ZEN with $RL rather than wait a month to get it from the ZAX using AD. But the backlog on the ZAX will render the ZAX useless for any short-term purpose. Players will keep the ZAX endlessly backed-up with requests for ZEN to buy VIP-thingamies. As long as people are happy that the ZAX serves the main purpose of allowing ZEN buyers to sell ZEN instantaneously at 500AD per ZEN, as you described, then there isn't a problem. As a not-paid-up member of the Greater Protector's Enclave Leeches and Abusers Society, I'm happy to wait for my ZEN.

    I think that the exchange backlog will continue to grow for a while and then quickly start to clear out to something more reasonable. The AD costs in Stronghold will make it attractive for guilds to purchase AD with ZEN. That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.

    And maybe players who buy their way to max VIP will want to buy AD afterwards to take advantage of their Bazaar discounts.
    ​​

    Good points - I'll watch with interest.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    That is indeed something I hadn't considered while discussing this last night with Andy/Strum Silvergrlyph. I certainly hope strongholds add a good reason for players to want to buy AD with Zen otherwise I do have the same fear that we had finally started to see a decrease in the backlog just to have a huge increase in Zen demand and likely more AD generation from opening lockboxes.

    Personally I think this system would be better sold as AD. People who want it, particularly tier 12, will still buy Zen to get the AD. Ultimately Zen and AD are interchangeable and only by adding reasons for people to want to buy AD with Zen will the economy become as healthy as it was in the first few months after release. Not everything that is shiny can be lumped into a Zen purchase.
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    subnoctesubnocte Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    It concerns me that bots will be able to buy up rank 12 instantly and will gain a lot from the benefits this offers. That could make the problems they cause the economy worse. I hope there's some system in place to track accounts that buy VIP to ensure they're legitimate.

    The benefits seem decent enough for an optional sub at the price. I'd have liked a direct payment rather than the Zen market (to eliminate the bots entirely) and for it to include a Zen allowance each month, like LOTRO and SWTOR.
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    linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    subnocte wrote: »
    It concerns me that bots will be able to buy up rank 12 instantly and will gain a lot from the benefits this offers. That could make the problems they cause the economy worse. I hope there's some system in place to track accounts that buy VIP to ensure they're legitimate.

    The benefits seem decent enough for an optional sub at the price. I'd have liked a direct payment rather than the Zen market (to eliminate the bots entirely) and for it to include a Zen allowance each month, like LOTRO and SWTOR.

    Paying $RL and getting some ZEN into the bargain would make a lot of sense.
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    silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    By keeping it a ZEN purchase and therefore open to availability to free players through the exchange, you also get more VIPs. Someone with an investment in the game is more likely to stick around and keep playing.

    I think that the best thing about the structure of this pack is that it will most likely lower AH prices for every player, even those that don't buy VIP packs. That is assuming, of course, that Wondrous Bazaar and lockbox items are NOT changed to be bound when purchased with the discount or come from free keys.

    So, VIPs get lots of AD savings. Other players get lower AH costs. AD sellers suffer. Reducing AD costs overall is the best way to combat AD sellers. Dry up the market.​​
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    quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    You must be really narrow-minded if you think people will keep buying AD with ZEN when lvl70 character with lvl25 leadership and common assets makes 19,800 AD per day (doesnt include any rare missions) + 3k from invoking. With VIP and/or more slots (9 is max) you can easily reach a cap without even bothering to buy uncommon assets.

    Now imagine all those players with 50+ characters or gold sellers with hundreds of accounts. For the record, 50x24k = 1.2kk AD per day without doing any daily quests, just invoking and leadership.
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    looomislooomis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 253 Arc User
    How can you make a subscription so complicated? Do you really need 12 levels, where most of the boni are useless?
    You put in companion training rush time and forget transmutation costs?
    You offer free AH posting (which is 80k max) and leave free-enchantment-change out?

    Having a mobile post/bank/whatever is like using "moveto player" in Skyrim - its freaking boring.

    I will never buy keys, because they are a money sink, even at that prices.
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    It's "complicated" because it is not a subscription, it's a VIP/Loyalty/Reward Program. :p

    The longer you play the more rewards you get. It is not meant to give a horribly unfair advantage to people with 12 months of VIP Status. In fact if you didn't notice it was intentionally set up to give most of the better rewards early on.
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    temjiutemjiu Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    quspiv wrote: »
    You must be really narrow-minded if you think people will keep buying AD with ZEN when lvl70 character with lvl25 leadership and common assets makes 19,800 AD per day (doesnt include any rare missions) + 3k from invoking. With VIP and/or more slots (9 is max) you can easily reach a cap without even bothering to buy uncommon assets.

    Now imagine all those players with 50+ characters or gold sellers with hundreds of accounts. For the record, 50x24k = 1.2kk AD per day without doing any daily quests, just invoking and leadership.

    and spend about 3 hours a day doing nothing but invoking and leadership, or possibly more...that was a shot in the dark. But it's allot of time, more time then I as a person who puts in 40-50 hours a week working is willing to put into a game just so i can be a freeloader. I personally get bored with the two after a few rounds...but I digress. the long term solution may be heading towards reducing AD production from Leadership (don't forget they aren't finished with that yet, they indicated they are still working on permanent solution). that would Knick that idea in the bud fast.

    And besides...no matter what they do ingame, the botters won't quit until one of two things happens: 1) they make the game so irritating to play that no one plays, or 2) they make nothing in the game worth selling, so the bot's have no market. saying that botters will benefit from this is like saying that a thief benefits from the money he steals. that's pretty obvious. But this also benefits the players, and the company gains money from it, which benefits players in the long run. the numbers look better to the VP's, who are the ones who assign budgets to projects. this project makes more $$...it gets bigger budget.
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    peonliciouspeonlicious Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Some 1 time reward for reaching each rank would be nice. Like on rank 12 u get a big <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bag with 50 slots. I need more space :/
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    sparknoisesparknoise Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    Better they add banner "Give me your RL money" than doing this sneaky thing with VIP.. How i see they will ruin everything in this game just to force ppls to pay more.. :) I see why ppls leaving this game.. there is more better MMO's.
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    grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User
    Let's see: 1 thousand accounts (with 1000 passwords to remember), times 1000 Zen or 500k AD is $10,000 US or 500M AD. With accounts limited to 100M AD/account you will need at least 5, 6 would be easier, to have enough AD. If you wanted 50 characters per account at 500 Zen/ 2 slots x 24 = 12000 Zen per account x 5 accounts = 60000 Zen for 5 accounts. For 1000 accounts its 12000000 Zen. (about $10million US) .

    I don't think so.
    hquadros wrote: »
    so please prevent that farmers create thousands of accounts just so they can open thousands of lockboxes ! NOBODY or even thought about it OR are counting on it?

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