Dungeons are extremely easy once you have a good OP prot. You do not need high level gear, just the right build. The OP will never die unless it makes a mistake. It rarely, if ever needs a healer, and protects the entire group from any damage. My OP prot has done all the dungeons legit and people think I have high level gear when in fact I barely had any enchantments (because I was lazy to equip them.) or mythic gear. Devoted Symbol will help you chain pull faster by having a DP up for every pull if you do not time it right. You do not need the artifact weapon as there are actually other weapons better than it for OP.
Like any other MMO, tanks are always sought after since very people like to play it. You can complete dungeons without tanks, but it will require more skill and better gear to compensate. So find or create a good OP prot. After that, it is the question of WHEN not IF you will finish the dungeon based on your group's dps.
GF SM come into second place as another tank that can make it easier for you, but nothing comes close to how easy an OP prot makes a dungeon. It was reported before m6 launch, and reported months since m6 launched that OP were very powerful tanks that made dungeons way too easy because of its abilities.
They made dungeons harder when you do not have a tank, but when you have a tank, it is easy to "hey, this was an epic dungeon?"
So yes, dungeons are extremely easy if you bring the right composition, better gear just improves completion efficiency.
P.S. IL means nothing. What is important is where those points are placed into. Two characters with the same class, spec, and IL will have different battle strength depending on stats allocation.
A good example of broken design and complete class unbalance. Yes people know about the paladin shield, but the fact that running with that makes the dungeons easy and other combinations not, shows that hard means cheesy.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
The bosses are too hard and the rewards are poor.. no body will do T2 run without exploit.. a team of T1 gears can never finish a T2 dungeon legitimately no matter how hard they try.. let alone so many noobs in a random team...
a team of t1 gears? what is the difference between elemental gear and blue gear? 5 points of item level each piece?
Being almost one-shotted by a trash mob is embarrassing. Only so many
times can a CW teleport. Even with all my Enchants at nine, an
orange blinged out cat and some pretty decent HP adding armor it's
a bit hard not to die/rinse/repeat.
If the Epics are made for the paying-ist customers, I'd at least ask that
they give a more plausible item-level for each dungeon.
believe me a 4.2 paying-ist customers without skills will fail to complete those dungeons more than a skillfull 2.5k team. Hey and dont use as excuse the lostmauth set when you can give 100k for a necklace 50k for a belt and the only one is expensive is the horn 1m. plus you dont even have to buy a horn since maybe you are lucky running the lair.
Fact about lol set (off topic): I have valindra max rank set. Well i have a green lostmauth set and guess this so innocent set which make me to deal 3m-4m more damage than i should............................( control wizard my only character bis before you say i run only with bis characters).
The scorpions at the end of LOL are ridiculous. One hit insta death..item lvl 1600
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Yes
I've only been trying them recently, and have yet to successfully clear the boss. Other than the final boss, I don't have a problem with them. PUG matches have to many come and go--and I see people getting kicked left and right without good reason. It seems silly for 3-4 characters to have to beat on a small spider for 60-90 seconds, however.
Is it true that you used to get protectors seals from the first boss? If so, when did that disappear?
If you're at the minimum ilvl, they're ludicrously hard. Perhaps with a well put together group on voice chat, but pug groups wouldn't stand the slightest chance.
If you're at high ilvl, they're way too easy. The game has basically no challenge for people with the best gear as there's no end game progression to work towards.
I have been playing NWO since Mod 3 and not ONCE was any Dungeon a "CAKE WALK". Just because you CC warriors have an easy time in dungeons with your T1 and T2 gear with rank 10's does not mean that players with lower lvl gear and rank 6's and 7's feel the same way. The current state of the Dungeons IS too hard to complete WITHOUT a few "WHALES" who sport a few rank 11's ad 12's. So, I say, create a new toon, get it to lvl 70 with ONLY rare lvl 70 gear and rank 7's, THEN tell me how EASY it is to do!!!
Actually, that's exactly what I did on my CW, HR and TR during the armpen bug. I had R7s and lessers back then, R8s now. With good teamwork and a few wipes along the way, that was sufficient to get through LOL and KR even during the armpen bug. Once you have that set, the T2s aren't hard anymore now that the armpen bug is fixed. Challenging perhaps, depending on teamwork team composition and playstyle, but by no means do they require an OP OP to get through. Yes, eToS is the easiest of the 3 by far. But with around 2.5IL they can all be done.
That said, doing any dungeon with the bare minimums is asking for trouble. Cryptic never got their requirements right, ever since the game launched. But that's not so much of a problem anymore, considering that the fresh lvl70 blues along with R7s will already push you close to 2k IL.
Given the lack of raids (no, Tiamat isn't a raid ), I think they need three tiers of dungeons. T1 should be doable by people once they've got their blue armour, enchants and have got a bit of gear from skirmishes. T2 is more or less where it should be. T3 should earn you the best gear and require the highest skill and coordination, i.e. a small raid.
The scorpions at the end of LOL are ridiculous. One hit insta death..item lvl 1600
It doesn't really matter that they one hit. The attacks are telegraphed and easy to dodge. You just have someone kite the one on the left while the rest of your party kills the other one (or an OP can just tank both of them).
elol should really have a 2k ilvl requirement anyways.
Rubbish, I have done all t2 dungeons with 2k groups with no pallies and no wipes, if anything, the dungeons are too easy not too hard. You just got to think a bit and use your brain, as opposed to just holding down left click and drinking something with your other hand. Dungeons need to be made more challenging, not less challenging as in their current state they are far too easy and far too boring. This game needs another epic dread vault, that last fight had real mechanics.
urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Yes
Imo It is still too hard for a "Random" party
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited November 2015
Yes
Well, this thread started back when the DR/AP bug made them borderline impossible, and nowadays they are a lot better than mod 6, but still there are unbalances between dungeons of the same tiers in either difficulty, rewards or time invested. All tier 1 should have similar length, similar difficulty and equal rewards, the same should go for all tier 2, but that's not the case. Malabog/Valindra can't compete with Lostmouth and Greywolf Den / Cragmire Crypt (legit) can't compete with Spider Temple. The naysayers may argue all they like, but everyone knows where the path of least resistance lies, and that's what matters when you have to do something over and over with "muscle memory" more than anything.
If we consider what's coming with Mod 8, most rewards from the previous dungeons will be partially trivialized so a nerf may be in order to make them completely pug friendly. That or a boost to the rewards, but I think the latter is extremely unlikely.
Only hard with certain party compositions. Slap in OPs and they become a cakewalk
Trying to do eCC with a DC and GF who refuses to turn on KV for example.
Hahaha, I can only imagine. I always turn KV on if we have no OP. BTW OP + GF + DC is very good for dungeons, you might think this will be slow, but as long as GF has ITF, this is a very strong combination for any 2 dps.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
They are not too hard. The only thing that needs a nerf is Traven, and the door needs to be fixed. The other 2 boss fights in ECC are insanely easy and need to be buffed up. As mentioned, this OP is pre-fix of DR bug. SO, I voted yes.
Traven is def the most difficult boss in T2. But he can be beaten even at 2k ilvl, You just need good group, with perfect build, and complete campaign boons. Plus, I can not stress this enough, there should be no lag.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
They are not too hard now with the right group set-up. As an example, I run eToS with guildmates (my 2.4k alt SW, 2k fresh OP, 2.4k AP cleric with the wrong armor set/enchantement/artifact and others mid/low IL toons). We finished it with no particular problem.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Dungeons were not hard when we had the DR bug - they were painfully bugged and I almost quit the game because of it lol. So discouraging having your dedicated GF Protector eat dirt almost each mob group.
After the bug was fixed, voila! the game suddenly was normal again. Few double RP weekends later...dungeons are much, much easier.
Part of the problem is the incredible class imbalance. Again I have to say about Palladins bubble...sorry to burst your bubble guys (pun intended).
This perma bubble thing is the reason that some of the folks say dungeons are hard, impossible to finish even. One runs with the bubble dude - finishes the run with no deaths, no sweat thinking the game is cool, and his play is really nice! Than, same guy joins the other group, without the Pally and suddenly his game SUCKS!
Moral? folks do not learn how to play, they do not think what they're doing, they do not plan they're encounters just mashing buttons once they're off the cool down. It's possible because they're immortal under bubble thingy.
I once had an OP, who TOLD the party to stand in red, so he can absorb more damage -> so he can reflect more thus melting stuff easier and faster - INCREDIBLE.
While it was kinda fun for the first few times, now I actively avoid running with OP's simply because I find this skill to powerful.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
You just need good group, with perfect build, and complete campaign boons. Plus, I can not stress this enough, there should be no lag.
Just need a good group with perfect builds, complete campaign boons and no lag.....it so simple.
Hell with that strategy nothing in this game will ever be too hard because everyone can always be guaranteed that all these specifics will happen.....god I hope you were trying to be sarcastic.
You just need good group, with perfect build, and complete campaign boons. Plus, I can not stress this enough, there should be no lag.
Just need a good group with perfect builds, complete campaign boons and no lag.....it so simple.
Hell with that strategy nothing in this game will ever be too hard because everyone can always be guaranteed that all these specifics will happen.....god I hope you were trying to be sarcastic.
Never said it would be simple. It's doable, but far from simple. I'm sorry if you've found this part of the game impossible, but it can be done, it has been done, and it is being done over and over again. Everyday there is a group of 2k-2.5k players out there doing T2 dungeons.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Yes
oh sheesh, this thread is NECRO written all over it.. kill it.
When I posted yes, they had the DR bug and I was upset they were not fixing it.. they actually adjusted it too much!
YOU would need to release a new poll now. In addition its the wrong question almost.. its not a matter of difficulty at all.. but a matter of difficulty vs rewards.. there is just not enough rewards to bother running t2s for the most part.
Get your gear and move on.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2015
No
The game used to be so easy, every player at level cap would have been considered an Avatar of a Deity in D&D. That has now been fixed and I feel the difficulty curve is fine where it is at now in almost all scenarios. Delves aren't easy, they're a challenge. I wouldn't say they're hard, and definitely not too hard. They're challenging, nothing more nothing less, as they should be. We are not Gods anymore either in Delves, as it should be.
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,353Arc User
No
Please close the thread. The poll was started in August with different difficulty comparing with the current stage. The poll numbers are irrelevant now. i.e. many posted in August probably would change their mind if the poll starts today.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
They pulled one over on you.. this is ancient and the original question is no longer valid. IF they want to start a new poll with difficulty level today , thats a totally different issue.
THIS was before the DR bug fix!
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
They pulled one over on you.. this is ancient and the original question is no longer valid. IF they want to start a new poll with difficulty level today , thats a totally different issue.
Comments
A good example of broken design and complete class unbalance. Yes people know about the paladin shield, but the fact that running with that makes the dungeons easy and other combinations not, shows that hard means cheesy.
a team of t1 gears? what is the difference between elemental gear and blue gear? 5 points of item level each piece?
believe me a 4.2 paying-ist customers without skills will fail to complete those dungeons more than a skillfull 2.5k team. Hey and dont use as excuse the lostmauth set when you can give 100k for a necklace 50k for a belt and the only one is expensive is the horn 1m. plus you dont even have to buy a horn since maybe you are lucky running the lair.
Fact about lol set (off topic): I have valindra max rank set. Well i have a green lostmauth set and guess this so innocent set which make me to deal 3m-4m more damage than i should............................( control wizard my only character bis before you say i run only with bis characters).
Is it true that you used to get protectors seals from the first boss? If so, when did that disappear?
Trying to do eCC with a DC and GF who refuses to turn on KV for example.
If you're at the minimum ilvl, they're ludicrously hard. Perhaps with a well put together group on voice chat, but pug groups wouldn't stand the slightest chance.
If you're at high ilvl, they're way too easy. The game has basically no challenge for people with the best gear as there's no end game progression to work towards.
elol should really have a 2k ilvl requirement anyways.
All tier 1 should have similar length, similar difficulty and equal rewards, the same should go for all tier 2, but that's not the case. Malabog/Valindra can't compete with Lostmouth and Greywolf Den / Cragmire Crypt (legit) can't compete with Spider Temple. The naysayers may argue all they like, but everyone knows where the path of least resistance lies, and that's what matters when you have to do something over and over with "muscle memory" more than anything.
If we consider what's coming with Mod 8, most rewards from the previous dungeons will be partially trivialized so a nerf may be in order to make them completely pug friendly. That or a boost to the rewards, but I think the latter is extremely unlikely.
As an example, I run eToS with guildmates (my 2.4k alt SW, 2k fresh OP, 2.4k AP cleric with the wrong armor set/enchantement/artifact and others mid/low IL toons). We finished it with no particular problem.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
So discouraging having your dedicated GF Protector eat dirt almost each mob group.
After the bug was fixed, voila! the game suddenly was normal again. Few double RP weekends later...dungeons are much, much easier.
Part of the problem is the incredible class imbalance. Again I have to say about Palladins bubble...sorry to burst your bubble guys (pun intended).
This perma bubble thing is the reason that some of the folks say dungeons are hard, impossible to finish even.
One runs with the bubble dude - finishes the run with no deaths, no sweat thinking the game is cool, and his play is really nice!
Than, same guy joins the other group, without the Pally and suddenly his game SUCKS!
Moral? folks do not learn how to play, they do not think what they're doing, they do not plan they're encounters just mashing buttons once they're off the cool down. It's possible because they're immortal under bubble thingy.
I once had an OP, who TOLD the party to stand in red, so he can absorb more damage -> so he can reflect more thus melting stuff easier and faster - INCREDIBLE.
While it was kinda fun for the first few times, now I actively avoid running with OP's simply because I find this skill to powerful.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Hell with that strategy nothing in this game will ever be too hard because everyone can always be guaranteed that all these specifics will happen.....god I hope you were trying to be sarcastic.
When I posted yes, they had the DR bug and I was upset they were not fixing it.. they actually adjusted it too much!
YOU would need to release a new poll now.
In addition its the wrong question almost.. its not a matter of difficulty at all.. but a matter of difficulty vs rewards.. there is just not enough rewards to bother running t2s for the most part.
Get your gear and move on.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
They pulled one over on you.. this is ancient and the original question is no longer valid. IF they want to start a new poll with difficulty level today , thats a totally different issue.
THIS was before the DR bug fix!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]