Please stop the intense hate on PvP players.. No wonder you get killed over and over again when you sh1ttalk like that.
Anyway, i que as a premade pretty much every day. But its only against other premades or if its an guild inhouse (aka 5v5 within the guild). If nothing is organized against another team, my team dosent que
I cant remember the last time i fought pugs. I do everything i can do avoid you, believe me. You are boring as it comes, and all you do is talk bad once you get killed.
I que every day, against other premades. So please dont talk so badly about PvPers, because the people who roflstomp you, are probably not real pvpers anyway.
A real PvP premade does not enjoy fighting pugs, and avoids them as much as possible.
I don't even run premades these days except if I'm trying to snipe another premade that doesn't want to accept an organised fight, or doing an inhouse.
Pugs are as boring as they get for a premade.
I even stopped playing my main in solo/duo queue pug matches towards the end of last mod and part of this mod because it was so boring - I only pug with my SW nowadays.
If you honestly find that premades enjoy roflstomping pugs, you're probably fighting a terrible premade that gets roflstomped by a proper premade and refuses organised fights. Real premades don't even want to go near pugs because they're that boring.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited July 2015
its not hate about pvp players, its about pvp guilds premades. its good many already understand they cant have enough fun when they go premade and it go worse over time. So what now? A little bit cleaning at pvp guilds?
Real premades don't even want to go near pugs because they're that boring.
bla bla bla..
If you wanna put your money where your mouth is then pick up your partners and go pvp in icewind dale. No queues, no pugs to hinder your experience, just pure combat. Why do you waste time in Doms? The match making system is obviously broken allowing things like class stacking and gear disparity to run rampant yet those bis pvp people still go there. You know why? I know why, its because there, in that unequal environment money/AD can buy power and provide a win. And you folks seem to need that
well we are in IWD all the time testing stuff etc. But the real matches happen in dom, 5v5, with 3 nodes. IWD is laggy, it allows companions and the map is way to big for 5v5. Also, pugs come and interrupt all the time. It means nothing.
The real games are in domination, and i feel sorry for you because clearly some people have been spawn camping you, but those are probably pay2winners and not PvPers.
@kweassa I respect your skill and ability as much as I do your words... but I know for fact that throwing a blanket statement over ALL PvP guild members is erroneous at best. I lost that insane need for competition about 12 years ago... but I occasionally like to sharpen my claws on the armor of others. It is human nature...
As one of my Western Civ profs once said... "every man fantasizes about having blood up to his elbows and engaging in mortal combat... to truly know that he is alive."
Hemmingway even stated similar... "you cannot know someone until you have seen them fight." He also suggested that meant as much for knowing one's self as it did to knowing another.
I'm a bit confused, if they can queue up for an inhouse scrim why do they have to queue into matchmaking against pub teams? Couldn't they just arrange scrims in advance? Sounds like a lot of excuses for something that's frowned upon in basically every competitive multiplayer game ever.
2. cryptic make pvp less about gear? no way
This whole thread is why PvP in MMOs is a bit of a joke to everyone that isn't heavily involved. In any other type of game the competitive scene would be making rulesets to make the barrier to entry lower. BiS PvP is pretty much the anti-thesis of what it takes to make a thriving competitive scene anyways. If they really cared about finding competition they would be trying to find ways to make it such that there is competition that they don't have to queue against pubs ten times to get one match against a similar team. This doesn't require Cryptic so much as it requires players to organize themselves.
PS: A quick test. My sure strike non crit hits 3-4k on dummy target, how do you turn it into 60k+ dmg one hit? Show me how far you actually worked on your character
In my experience most of the veteran players from top pvp guilds are those that vastly outperform most other players at low ilvl, then later gain more gear/experience then move on to higher end PvP guilds to learn not only 1 vs 1 but also tactics/teamworks that helps win a game for the team. At least I see that from the guys in our guild, I believe most of them are capable of handling other classes close to their ilvl
The fact is, before I joined a PvP guild, I have already been slaughtering most of the players I came across, I thought I was owning great only to find there are so many more areas in PvP than just a player's combat power. Being in a PvP guild with a lot of people that consistently spend time to work out how their class really work, testing different builds, different encounters, different setups and that's how a lot of elite builds are created, but back then, all I knew was whacking ppl with cookie cutter encounters everyone else is using and setting up characters whichever way I liked, at the end, the tests, math, trainings made the difference. Ask yourself this question, how much do you know about your opponent's skills? How much 1 vs 1 training did you have to improve your skills? How many of you are being 2~3 shotted by GF and not knowing how to beat them? How many of you average GWFs know how to counter a TR and beat down most you come across? How many of you studied how OP works and when to do your burst dmg? How many of you actually sit down, tested seemingly useless encounters and try to find a setup to make it work?
If you have done all the above then you earn my respects and have your fair share, I would acknowledge you as an experienced 1 vs 1 player.
As to teamwork, I think there is really no point discussing it, cus really players that are not in a PvP guild would not have much chance to learn. Everywhere from how to assign your group, how positioning are to be arranged, how switching works (fast switching is often the key to premade wins), how hardcapping makes the difference, how to dispatch temporary small groups to hardcap/support/assist and not just kills. How to effectively score points while preventing enemies from scoring? How targets should be piortised and focused? How teams are to be switched?
In a realistic world, nobody beats everyone, but how to effectively switch yourself depending on your enemy team's tactics usually makes the difference. In high end fights, both groups usually keeps switching their grouping/tactics until one works, and that eventually become the winning team, its more than just brutal pvp beatdowns and this is exactly why even a similar GS premade from a pug team fights an experience PvP team, they wont even have much chance, tactics makes a lot of difference.
*Thats why certain PvP guild that has been stomping pugs in GG although they are highly geared, are usually no match to other top PvP guilds....
PS: A quick test. My sure strike non crit hits 3-4k on dummy target, how do you turn it into 60k+ dmg one hit? Show me how far you actually worked on your character
ok its timing and setup, right...I don´t know you so I do not doubt your good purposes, but if we ever meat in game and you act like most player you will have lost any credability for ages be sure
most player take part in PVP with average gear, i guess you will never know in this game if you perform good or not beeing maxed, its only your perception of thing arround you, strip your gear and enchants and go solo, face a maxed GWF, most ppl know this video look at 2:42
the player could stop going on behaving like this, but he doesn´t, even dom queue pops up lots of times... no he has a job to do: prevent pugs from digging for black ice
btw it doesn´t make any difference, domination is same level of pugstomping, underlined by a very ...let´s say strange kind of "funky elevator-music" but matches good with the video, like the melodramatic opener, I like that part , you can feel the tension
you can´t speak for this community in a whole looking through your keyhole, most of PVP-community is destroyed by the imbalancement of things since long time, its a wasteland for sure, proven every day by queing against maxed chars in every single match
this only could happen because elo doesn´t find any player who take part in this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ....don´t forget its an international server 24h a day and i got queued 3 out of 5 matches against a premade from absolute facing top geared player that obviuosly have lots of time and are bored for ages, me having GS 2,5k and 4 pugs to face them , lol
sure its cryptics fault but
as a dev wrote: great power means great responsability, to be honest 80% of the PVP community does not feel responsible at any time , and i fear its even more, beeing stomped and treated like dogmeat all day doesn´t pass by without leaving some scars
4k x 1,2 (daring shout 20% less DR) x 1,4 x (daggers+40%) x 1,5 (ten stacks from unstoppable+50%) x 1,2 wmf (20%? not sure) x 1,3 (executioners style) x 1,18 (T-feytouche)
that should be 19k but is more for sure !
ok my GWF has 10k power no feytouched, 3780 arp and he does max. 18k non crits against dummy (no destroyer feat and no compagnion) with sure strike
so you will deal something like 22k non crits and 35 crits, take lolset bonus on crits and broken wheel and you will deal >40k damage per hit from one at will
take a debuff to the target from any other player waering terror / bronzewood / plaguefire or feat from DC -17,5% DR and it will become more more
in PVP the damage is much lower normally 40% DR fro tenacity , except the target has no tenacity and low defence, can´t say what the dummy has got , but daring shout is 20% less DR on a separate layer, bypassing Negation enchant and tenacity, so do thretening rush on top
so you debuff your target a lot beside the insane selfbuffs, this works against lots of classes except TR
Post edited by schietindebux on
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited July 2015
The last premade I fought contained 3 players that were on the first page of the NCL rankings. One of which did nothing but sit at 1... while people kill themselves on him. He was the top ranked GWF during the NCL. I could tell that they were trying to make the best of it... but the team I was with were very green. My teammates did not believe me that it was a premade because they were from different guilds. After my 1300 points 1 kill and 7 deaths... I gave up.
If you don't like fighting pugs... then why do you feel the need to flex your muscles? That is the thing that makes me believe it is out of frustration.
Yeah.. and TBH... the GWF in the video... well I wont comment on that.
Post edited by drkbodhi on
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited July 2015
Close, but missing 2~3 more things, I will give you 2 x GMOP if you figure out the answer today, or 1 if you figure it out tomorrow
PS: 60k+ hit on Crit, only 1 single hit from Sure Strike, not using any artifact, you are getting closer...
PS: A quick test. My sure strike non crit hits 3-4k on dummy target, how do you turn it into 60k+ dmg one hit? Show me how far you actually worked on your character
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
No external buffs/debuffs (so no fey/vorpal+terror, you choose only one enchantment), not counting artifact/LM proc damage, just pure damage from Sure Strike itself. If you hit 3k on a sure strike then you should be able to hit 45~50k crit on the same setup, its not as complicated as you though.
In my experience most of the veteran players from top pvp guilds are those that vastly outperform most other players at low ilvl, then later gain more gear/experience then move on to higher end PvP guilds to learn not only 1 vs 1 but also tactics/teamworks that helps win a game for the team. At least I see that from the guys in our guild, I believe most of them are capable of handling other classes close to their ilvl
The fact is, before I joined a PvP guild, I have already been slaughtering most of the players I came across, I thought I was owning great only to find there are so many more areas in PvP than just a player's combat power. Being in a PvP guild with a lot of people that consistently spend time to work out how their class really work, testing different builds, different encounters, different setups and that's how a lot of elite builds are created, but back then, all I knew was whacking ppl with cookie cutter encounters everyone else is using and setting up characters whichever way I liked, at the end, the tests, math, trainings made the difference. Ask yourself this question, how much do you know about your opponent's skills? How much 1 vs 1 training did you have to improve your skills? How many of you are being 2~3 shotted by GF and not knowing how to beat them? How many of you average GWFs know how to counter a TR and beat down most you come across? How many of you studied how OP works and when to do your burst dmg? How many of you actually sit down, tested seemingly useless encounters and try to find a setup to make it work?
If you have done all the above then you earn my respects and have your fair share, I would acknowledge you as an experienced 1 vs 1 player.
As to teamwork, I think there is really no point discussing it, cus really players that are not in a PvP guild would not have much chance to learn. Everywhere from how to assign your group, how positioning are to be arranged, how switching works (fast switching is often the key to premade wins), how hardcapping makes the difference, how to dispatch temporary small groups to hardcap/support/assist and not just kills. How to effectively score points while preventing enemies from scoring? How targets should be piortised and focused? How teams are to be switched?
In a realistic world, nobody beats everyone, but how to effectively switch yourself depending on your enemy team's tactics usually makes the difference. In high end fights, both groups usually keeps switching their grouping/tactics until one works, and that eventually become the winning team, its more than just brutal pvp beatdowns and this is exactly why even a similar GS premade from a pug team fights an experience PvP team, they wont even have much chance, tactics makes a lot of difference.
*Thats why certain PvP guild that has been stomping pugs in GG although they are highly geared, are usually no match to other top PvP guilds....
PS: A quick test. My sure strike non crit hits 3-4k on dummy target, how do you turn it into 60k+ dmg one hit? Show me how far you actually worked on your character
ok its timing and setup, right...I don´t know you so I do not doubt your good purposes, but if we ever meat in game and you act like most player you will have lost any credability for ages be sure
most player take part in PVP with average gear, i guess you will never know in this game if you perform good or not beeing maxed, its only your perception of thing arround you, strip your gear and enchants and go solo, face a maxed GWF, most ppl know this video look at 2:42
the player could stop going on behaving like this, but he doesn´t, even dom queue pops up lots of times... no he has a job to do: prevent pugs from digging for black ice
btw it doesn´t make any difference, domination is same level of pugstomping, underlined by a very ...let´s say strange kind of "funky elevator-music" but matches good with the video, like the melodramatic opener, I like that part , you can feel the tension
you can´t speak for this community in a whole looking through your keyhole, most of PVP-community is destroyed by the imbalancement of things since long time, its a wasteland for sure, proven every day by queing against maxed chars in every single match
this only could happen because elo doesn´t find any player who take part in this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ....don´t forget its an international server 24h a day and i got queued 3 out of 5 matches against a premade from absolute facing top geared player that obviuosly have lots of time and are bored for ages, me having GS 2,5k and 4 pugs to face them , lol
sure its cryptics fault but
as a dev wrote: great power means great responsability, to be honest 80% of the PVP community does not feel responsible at any time , and i fear its even more, beeing stomped and treated like dogmeat all day doesn´t pass by without leaving some scars
4k x 1,2 (daring shout 20% less DR) x 1,4 x (daggers+40%) x 1,5 (ten stacks from unstoppable+50%) x 1,2 wmf (20%? not sure) x 1,3 (executioners style) x 1,18 (T-feytouche)
that should be 19k but is more for sure !
ok my GWF has 10k power no feytouched, 3780 arp and he does max. 18k non crits against dummy (no destroyer feat and no compagnion) with sure strike
so you will deal something like 22k non crits and 35 crits, take lolset bonus on crits and broken wheel and you will deal >40k damage per hit from one at will
take a debuff to the target from any other player waering terror / bronzewood / plaguefire or feat from DC -17,5% DR and it will become more more
in PVP the damage is much lower normally 40% DR fro tenacity , except the target has no tenacity and low defence, can´t say what the dummy has got , but daring shout is 20% less DR on a separate layer, bypassing Negation enchant and tenacity, so do thretening rush on top
so you debuff your target a lot beside the insane selfbuffs, this works against lots of classes except TR
The last premade I fought contained 3 players that were on the first page of the NCL rankings. One of which did nothing but sit at 1... while people kill themselves on him. He was the top ranked GWF during the NCL. I could tell that they were trying to make the best of it... but the team I was with were very green. My teammates did not believe me that it was a premade because they were from different guilds. After my 1300 points 1 kill and 7 deaths... I gave up.
If you don't like fighting pugs... then why do you feel the need to flex your muscles? That is the thing that makes me believe it is out of frustration.
Yeah.. and TBH... the GWF in the video... well I wont comment on that.
In the end, that's the real question, isn't it?
They complain all the time how there isn't real competition, and it also "hurts them as much as it hurts us" when they meet low-level pug groups in Dom or GG, and they always say they don't enjoy slaughtering pugs. But if that's true, then why in the world are they gathering up all the good players into a single team, and then queueing with that?
When queues are left at the mercy of total randomness, sometimes you'll get a nightmare situation where all of the BiS players in that timezone are on the enemy team. Sometimes you get the cake-walk where they are on your team. In most cases, dictated by chance, it just so happens the randomness will have most of them spread apart in both teams for more or less even conditions. For the BiS player, if they truly want a chance to fight against equals, then not making a premade will have better chances to do so, rather than gathering all of that competition to your team, which you don't fight against.
So if they all want the "challenge", and they don't really want to slaughter pugs as well, then WHY THE H3LL are they making premades in the first place?
...
You see now what I mean by 'lying through the teeth' or 'don't give a sheet' ?
People who really care about the PvP don't do stuff like making premades to queue in GG, in the first place.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
From what I have gathered from the above.. it seems there is only one specific potato express guild that frequently do premades for GG PvP..... no other PvP guild seem to do it on regular basis.... @_@;
The last premade I fought contained 3 players that were on the first page of the NCL rankings. One of which did nothing but sit at 1... while people kill themselves on him. He was the top ranked GWF during the NCL. I could tell that they were trying to make the best of it... but the team I was with were very green. My teammates did not believe me that it was a premade because they were from different guilds. After my 1300 points 1 kill and 7 deaths... I gave up.
If you don't like fighting pugs... then why do you feel the need to flex your muscles? That is the thing that makes me believe it is out of frustration.
Yeah.. and TBH... the GWF in the video... well I wont comment on that.
In the end, that's the real question, isn't it?
They complain all the time how there isn't real competition, and it also "hurts them as much as it hurts us" when they meet low-level pug groups in Dom or GG, and they always say they don't enjoy slaughtering pugs. But if that's true, then why in the world are they gathering up all the good players into a single team, and then queueing with that?
When queues are left at the mercy of total randomness, sometimes you'll get a nightmare situation where all of the BiS players in that timezone are on the enemy team. Sometimes you get the cake-walk where they are on your team. In most cases, dictated by chance, it just so happens the randomness will have most of them spread apart in both teams for more or less even conditions. For the BiS player, if they truly want a chance to fight against equals, then not making a premade will have better chances to do so, rather than gathering all of that competition to your team, which you don't fight against.
So if they all want the "challenge", and they don't really want to slaughter pugs as well, then WHY THE H3LL are they making premades in the first place?
...
You see now what I mean by 'lying through the teeth' or 'don't give a sheet' ?
People who really care about the PvP don't do stuff like making premades to queue in GG, in the first place.
Close, but missing 2~3 more things, I will give you 2 x GMOP if you figure out the answer today, or 1 if you figure it out tomorrow
PS: 60k+ hit on Crit, only 1 single hit from Sure Strike, not using any artifact, you are getting closer...
Ok ok let's see. It's crit, i'll skip damage encounters and focus on SS. It might be:
The ones already mentioned plus:
15% crit severity from heroic feat, 2% crit severity from boon+ another 5% crit severity from ToD boon+ daring shout mark+DR debuff
Don't remember if DS mark adds up to threar rush mark. I tested it but couldn't tell. In case it doesn't add up, then swordmaster and WMS debuff.
Might also use vorpal to buff the crit, since we're talking about a crit hit, but TFey could be enough.
So it's
Daring Shout mark + DR debuff
Threat rush mark OR Weapon Master Strike debuff
Hidden daggers buff (rank 4)
Destroyer capstone full stacks
Focused Destroyer full stacks
Battle fury buff (rank4)
Added crit severity from feats and boons
Added at-will damage from feats
Artifact Main Hand Sure Strike buff
Can also may be replace Daring Shout with Come And Get It damage buff?
Am i closer? Mh? MH? MMMHH?
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
close but missing two more things.. I play a IV GWF so u dun have to worry about swordsman's skills...
Close, but missing 2~3 more things, I will give you 2 x GMOP if you figure out the answer today, or 1 if you figure it out tomorrow
PS: 60k+ hit on Crit, only 1 single hit from Sure Strike, not using any artifact, you are getting closer...
Ok ok let's see. It's crit, i'll skip damage encounters and focus on SS. It might be:
The ones already mentioned plus:
15% crit severity from heroic feat, 2% crit severity from boon+ another 5% crit severity from ToD boon+ daring shout mark+DR debuff
Don't remember if DS mark adds up to threar rush mark. I tested it but couldn't tell. In case it doesn't add up, then swordmaster and WMS debuff.
Might also use vorpal to buff the crit, since we're talking about a crit hit, but TFey could be enough.
So it's
Daring Shout mark + DR debuff
Threat rush mark OR Weapon Master Strike debuff
Hidden daggers buff (rank 4)
Destroyer capstone full stacks
Focused Destroyer full stacks
Battle fury buff (rank4)
Added crit severity from feats and boons
Added at-will damage from feats
Artifact Main Hand Sure Strike buff
Can also may be replace Daring Shout with Come And Get It damage buff?
close but missing two more things.. I play a IV GWF so u dun have to worry about swordsman's skills...
Ok so i'll throw in 2 more things:
- wrathful determination for extra damage buff when determination bar is filled, since with battle fury and unfettered strikes you might not need bravery
- skip countless scars if you already have high lifesteal and TNegation and put 5 points in instigator's Student of the Sword+ 10 still in sentinel for mark damage buff.
Uh, forgot to mention it but i was giving it as a "given"...executioner's style feat.
So to sum it up, trying to make a viable build/rotation:
- Threat rush mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Daring shout added DR rank4+ enemy DR debuff+ mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Destro capstone full stacks
- Hidden Daggers Buff rank 4
- Battle fury buff rank 4
- At-will buff feats
- Executioner's style
- Destroyer 3 stacks rank 4 + feated Focused destroyer
- Could switch 5 points from countless scars to student of the sword if you have already TNegation, considering DS buff to your DR and the fact you are sprinting more (30% DR during sprint)
- Could use wrathful determination as 2nd passive in place of bravery considering the use of battle fury (more sprint) and unfettered strikes feat
So to sum it up, trying to make a viable build/rotation:
- Threat rush mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Daring shout added DR rank4+ enemy DR debuff+ mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Destro capstone full stacks
- Hidden Daggers Buff rank 4
- Battle fury buff rank 4
- At-will buff feats
- Executioner's style
- Destroyer 3 stacks rank 4 + feated Focused destroyer
- Could switch 5 points from countless scars to student of the sword if you have already TNegation, considering DS buff to your DR and the fact you are sprinting more (30% DR during sprint)
- Could use wrathful determination as 2nd passive in place of bravery considering the use of battle fury (more sprint) and unfettered strikes feat
Is a lot of damage buffs piled up.
destroyer only stacks if 3 targets are hit
1. threaetening rush -8% DR
2. daring shout -20% DR (double marked)
3. daggers+40% bonus
4. FLS--> (trample the fallen +battle trample+15%+25%)
5. ten stacks from unstoppable already active+50% bouns
6. combat advantage +15% + charismabonus + 3% (campfirebonus) + x% from artifacts + IWD Boon 400+ lets say all in all 25% ?
class feats wraithfull determination +12,5%+ trample the fallen +15% (+battle trample-->25% weapondamage as physical damage)
devasting critical +15% crit severity+ 2% Icewindboon + 8% from ToD + p vorp 50%
destroyer: great weapon focus / Disciple of war/ focussed destroyer / executioners style / destroyers purpose
sentinel: powerfull challenge +15% to marked targets /battle trample
Nope for destroyers. Focused destroyer feat my sir. It's a must. Feated it's a 36% damage boost pretty much, and with battle fury you are SSing al lthe time, with daring shout you go unstoppable more often (faster at-will), so the destroyer stacks are all up most of the time.
Other flaw in your theorycrafting:
Trample of the fallen: procs when the target is controlled. His rotation with battle fury has no control (battle fury/daring shout/hidden daggers).
It's powerful challenge feat only. No battle trample.
My guess is he gave up countless scars to get 50% reduced cooldown and increased duration on battle fury, compensating with TNegation and TFey, but might also be PVorpal for added crit severity.
Executioner's style and basically what i wrote above is enough to buff Sure Strike at that level.
Nope for destroyers. Focused destroyer feat my sir. It's a must. Feated it's a 36% damage boost pretty much, and with battle fury you are SSing al lthe time, with daring shout you go unstoppable more often (faster at-will), so the destroyer stacks are all up most of the time.
Other flaw in your theorycrafting:
Trample of the fallen: procs when the target is controlled. His rotation with battle fury has no control (battle fury/daring shout/hidden daggers).
It's powerful challenge feat only. No battle trample.
My guess is he gave up countless scars to get 50% reduced cooldown and increased duration on battle fury, compensating with TNegation and TFey, but might also be PVorpal for added crit severity.
Executioner's style and basically what i wrote above is enough to buff Sure Strike at that level.
thought you ment the class feature : destroyer , that stacks 3 times
Daring shout + dagger + FLS (takedown)
skip battle fury and take battle trample and trample the fallen bc its 15%+25% damage to controled targets
compared to 20% from battle fury, but sounds also interesting going battle fury...
all in all it would be no big advantage going IV if using only Threatening rush from all abilities?
Consider this: battle trample and trample of the fallen affect your DPS for like 2s or less while the enemy is proned, every 17s (FLS cooldown). Also, won't work on TRs (high deflect and severity nullify CC) and Elven battle users.
Battle fury feated is 20% buff on EVERY HIT for 8s on a 12s cooldown.
It's FAR better than trample. In those 8 seconds you hit a lot. In the CC time of FLS stun reduced by tenacity, deflect and elven battle, you may be hit 1 time with IBS.
It's basically 20% damage buff 80% of the time vs 40% damage buff every 17s on 1 hit.
I'd go for the first option.
Consider this: battle trample and trample of the fallen affect your DPS for like 2s or less while the enemy is proned, every 17s (FLS cooldown). Also, won't work on TRs (high deflect and severity nullify CC) and Elven battle users.
Battle fury feated is 20% buff on EVERY HIT for 8s on a 12s cooldown.
It's FAR better than trample. In those 8 seconds you hit a lot. In the CC time of FLS stun reduced by tenacity, deflect and elven battle, you may be hit 1 time with IBS.
It's basically 20% damage buff 80% of the time vs 40% damage buff every 17s on 1 hit.
I'd go for the first option.
right, but you have to get to 50k crit, how?
btw I get cc almost constantly in PVP, so the bonus would also work on cc´d targets from a CW, TR Hunter etc, so the effect would be much better than once all 17 second?
but if I should chose i would take your battle fury, bc its AP, Stamina and damagebuff at once ...much better, but no reason to go for IV except Threatening rush in that case?
most GWF rely on stuns like FLS/TD and hard hits in between?
You get there. Tested it in PvE on preview and it turned my 2-3k Sure Strike into a 40k crit sure strike. So i guess a 3-4k can go as high as 60k with better enchants.
Threatening rush is added mark and gap closing which allows you to stay in melee range and SS even more. Mark lasts longer and is easier to apply that way than WMS debuff, in PvP.
Just heorycrafting but Swordmaster might work if you go another route, which is full AP gain build, high recovery and ArP that feed your power also (feat), AP gain cloak and AP mount+ new artifact set that gives the 25% AP back after using daily+DC sigil+AP gain new mount, spam dailies with steely defense damage immunity as passive, high life steal, and AP gain from daring shout. BiS players that can go as high as 8k recovery and 8k ArP, can still get to 30% crit chance then go for Fey or Terror for debuff/buff. Might potentially allow you to spam dailies and take advantage of the damage immunity from steely defense more.
Just heorycrafting, don't know if it might work but with so many AP gain sources you might literally spam dailies and immunity to damage...
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Sounds like you guys are having a lot of fun, I will reveal the answer later, dont wanna spoil the fun cus this is what a lot of PVP players does all the time, keep trying different stuffs to maximize their character's potential
I solo queue almost 100% of my PVP matches so I've my fair share of experience as a 'pug'. I'd sum the bad experience some of us had into three key points below:
1) Nobody likes losing, especially being roflolstomped. That's heavily discussed above.
2) To add salt to wound, the bad behaviour/attitude of BIS players in the opposite team aggravate the situation. During NCL, I've met many well geared players who go out of their way to prevent new players from getting their NCL tokens. The worst being a particular 4k IL Paladin who shouted in 'Say' that "noobs should not PVP" and proceeded to massacre anyone who came down from spawn.
3) Abused/Trolled by our own teammates. Much of the discussion above focused on pugs being abused by opposition teams. However, abuse by players from the same team is happening all the time. I've seen BIS players jumping on pugs and blaming them for a losing match, verbally abusing them during the game.
Many good players are duo-queuing for DOM PVP nowadays and sometimes, the key determinant for the match is which team had the stronger pugs. I've seen both ends of the spectrum whereby good BIS players guided the pug set to victory and bad BIS players scolding/blaming pugs right from the start for fighting off nodes, not having appropriate gears, etc.
At the end of the day, the attitude of individual players will impact the experience your team mates and opponents have in PVP.
Much blame has been put on BIS PVPers but in their defense, I've also seen poor attitude from pugs. I had matches whereby PVPers tried to guide pugs by teaching them the importance of capping, fighting on nodes, providing gearing advices, etc but the pugs replied with the likes of "shut up and play the game", "f*** off", "I play the game however I wish..." or "I'm just here for my dailies, who cares".
As an individual who solo queue all the time, I can only constantly remind myself to be nice and nurturing when I'm lucky enough to be on the winning team or to be a more gracious loser if I'm dealt a bad hand... and of course laugh off the comments from abusive players.
I should've nailed it cause i just got a 58449 crit Sure Strike hit on dummy, using Pure Plaguefire. With PVorpal would be more, may be also with TFey. Plus my base SS damage is 2k-3k, lower than you Icy...so i should've lined up all the needed buffs.
It was:
Destroyer rank 4+ Focused destroyer feat
Hidden daggers rank 4
Battle fury rank 4
Destroyer capstone
Threat rush mark
powerful challenge feat
Executioner's style feat
At-will buffing feats (don't remember the names)
Sure Strike buff on main hand
Other mixed stuff (crit severity boons and feats, combat advantage feats and so on...too much stuff to list all, it's overall build).
Weapon enchant was PPF but would've been probably better with a PVorpal buffing the crit more.
But in combat the DS debuff would be nullified probably too fast (enemy just needs to attack you) but the DR buff might help. Kept countless scars, too useful in pvp.
Might also replace DS with restoring strike?
I'm not good with math. But DS determination gain+AP gain+DR mmmh...might be better (more unstoppable, more dailies).
I should've nailed it cause i just got a 58449 crit Sure Strike hit on dummy, using Pure Plaguefire. With PVorpal would be more, may be also with TFey. Plus my base SS damage is 2k-3k, lower than you Icy...so i should've lined up all the needed buffs.
It was:
Destroyer rank 4+ Focused destroyer feat
Hidden daggers rank 4
Battle fury rank 4
Destroyer capstone
Threat rush mark
powerful challenge feat
Executioner's style feat
At-will buffing feats (don't remember the names)
Sure Strike buff on main hand
Other mixed stuff (crit severity boons and feats, combat advantage feats and so on...too much stuff to list all, it's overall build).
Weapon enchant was PPF but would've been probably better with a PVorpal buffing the crit more.
But in combat the DS debuff would be nullified probably too fast (enemy just needs to attack you) but the DR buff might help. Kept countless scars, too useful in pvp.
Might also replace DS with restoring strike?
I'm not good with math. But DS determination gain+AP gain+DR mmmh...might be better (more unstoppable, more dailies).
he uses dagger/battle fury and some stun, takedown i guess since it recharges really quick if you take relentless battle fury
DS is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway, my warlock is a mile away and the animation is still going on, battle fury is casted by running !
you need any kind of stun in PVP, otherwise its really hard, and having the feat you can cc someone all 5 seconds, thats quite good, missing the target it recharges much faster, so second chance after 2,5 seconds !
Weapon mastery+bravery i guess
having 5k movement and some points in fast runner you even can play this build with swordmaster i guess, in that case you can selfbuff your at will some more, Threatening rush surely is better
would be interested in the heroic feats...
he skips countlees scars or better
-->skip focussed destroyer, it deos not help that much in PVP I guess, btw hitting the dummy i do not see any buff/stack by that feat, can´t see the icon on myself nor on the target, nothing even hitting the puppet for serveral minutes, is it bugged?
say that I am right
i am pretty sure I will respecc for taht build with my crappy GWF
I am also using pPF, cheap but not effective against BIS player at all since. It only reduces defence, so reducing the overall DR from a CW/WL/Hunter with P Negation means 70%fix DR (no mitigated by PF) and reducing the 12% defence to about 7% by 3 stacks from 15% debuff
so all in all his DR is reduced to 77% (3% under cap) thats poor
pBronzewood would do better 82%-16% (bypassing arpresist and T negation) = 66%
taking t feytouched its flat 18% damagebuff and taking p vorp its 50%+damage from incoming damage, if tenacity would not diminish your crits for 40% so its only 30%+ for crits
pretty sure he uses T feytouched as all BIS player do
If you use Battle Fury and Unfettered strikes (20% running speed at full stacks) may be you can skip bravery (i wouldn't) for trample of the fallen, again, if you go for the takedown CD feat and BF+Daggers+TD. To land takedown directly still, you need a bit of anticipation on good PvPers and also cancelling threat rush into takedown helps (you link the moves). Now with takedown being on 6s cooldown you have more use for trample.
I tested DS+Daggers+BF in some matches, and for group fight it's surprisingly good. Not much for damage but more for determination gain, AP gain and added DR on my soulforged GWF.
Also allowed me to 1v1 good with some TRs cause if you're smart you can mark double (i do it no problem, just need a bit of anticipation), and buffing your daggers with battlefury you can hit TRs from range harder, then chase and SS them down. Going unstoppable more also, allows you to tank more their damage. DS range is good, it's not hard to mark the enemies.
However, in 1v1 i don't know, might not be that good (couldn't test enough) cause the added damage from mark will be cancelled immediately and the DR buff on 1 target is not so high, same the determination gain.
On a pure testing purpose, it worked good enough the double mark from DS+threat rush.
Don't really have that much time to test every possibility but it's basically a runner build that takes advantage of module 6 increased weapon damage/ at-will damage and rank 4 powers.
I couldn't skip countless scars, being a soulforged users i felt like i needed it more.
Rotations, however, are changed a lot usually. I change them depending on enemy team composition, and even the enemy i face. Depending on the situation one rotation might be not as effective, while another might give better results. My opinion/ experience.
Comments
Anyway, i que as a premade pretty much every day. But its only against other premades or if its an guild inhouse (aka 5v5 within the guild). If nothing is organized against another team, my team dosent que
I cant remember the last time i fought pugs. I do everything i can do avoid you, believe me. You are boring as it comes, and all you do is talk bad once you get killed.
I que every day, against other premades. So please dont talk so badly about PvPers, because the people who roflstomp you, are probably not real pvpers anyway.
I don't even run premades these days except if I'm trying to snipe another premade that doesn't want to accept an organised fight, or doing an inhouse.
Pugs are as boring as they get for a premade.
I even stopped playing my main in solo/duo queue pug matches towards the end of last mod and part of this mod because it was so boring - I only pug with my SW nowadays.
If you honestly find that premades enjoy roflstomping pugs, you're probably fighting a terrible premade that gets roflstomped by a proper premade and refuses organised fights. Real premades don't even want to go near pugs because they're that boring.
well we are in IWD all the time testing stuff etc. But the real matches happen in dom, 5v5, with 3 nodes. IWD is laggy, it allows companions and the map is way to big for 5v5. Also, pugs come and interrupt all the time. It means nothing.
The real games are in domination, and i feel sorry for you because clearly some people have been spawn camping you, but those are probably pay2winners and not PvPers.
This whole thread is why PvP in MMOs is a bit of a joke to everyone that isn't heavily involved. In any other type of game the competitive scene would be making rulesets to make the barrier to entry lower. BiS PvP is pretty much the anti-thesis of what it takes to make a thriving competitive scene anyways. If they really cared about finding competition they would be trying to find ways to make it such that there is competition that they don't have to queue against pubs ten times to get one match against a similar team. This doesn't require Cryptic so much as it requires players to organize themselves.
Uh i like riddles!
threatening rush Mark+destro capstone stacks+ hidden daggers buff+focused destroyer+probably battle fury rank 4+weapon enchant (18% Tfey)
EDIT: uh right and main hand SS buff artifact bonus+ at-will buffs from feats!!
60k crit or non-crit? Am i close? Do i win a prize? I need ADs i'm poor.
ok its timing and setup, right...I don´t know you so I do not doubt your good purposes, but if we ever meat in game and you act like most player you will have lost any credability for ages be sure
most player take part in PVP with average gear, i guess you will never know in this game if you perform good or not beeing maxed, its only your perception of thing arround you, strip your gear and enchants and go solo, face a maxed GWF, most ppl know this video look at 2:42
the player could stop going on behaving like this, but he doesn´t, even dom queue pops up lots of times... no he has a job to do: prevent pugs from digging for black ice
btw it doesn´t make any difference, domination is same level of pugstomping, underlined by a very ...let´s say strange kind of "funky elevator-music" but matches good with the video, like the melodramatic opener, I like that part , you can feel the tension
you can´t speak for this community in a whole looking through your keyhole, most of PVP-community is destroyed by the imbalancement of things since long time, its a wasteland for sure, proven every day by queing against maxed chars in every single match
this only could happen because elo doesn´t find any player who take part in this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ....don´t forget its an international server 24h a day and i got queued 3 out of 5 matches against a premade from absolute facing top geared player that obviuosly have lots of time and are bored for ages, me having GS 2,5k and 4 pugs to face them , lol
sure its cryptics fault but
as a dev wrote: great power means great responsability, to be honest 80% of the PVP community does not feel responsible at any time , and i fear its even more, beeing stomped and treated like dogmeat all day doesn´t pass by without leaving some scars
4k x 1,2 (daring shout 20% less DR) x 1,4 x (daggers+40%) x 1,5 (ten stacks from unstoppable+50%) x 1,2 wmf (20%? not sure) x 1,3 (executioners style) x 1,18 (T-feytouche)
that should be 19k but is more for sure !
ok my GWF has 10k power no feytouched, 3780 arp and he does max. 18k non crits against dummy (no destroyer feat and no compagnion) with sure strike
so you will deal something like 22k non crits and 35 crits, take lolset bonus on crits and broken wheel and you will deal >40k damage per hit from one at will
take a debuff to the target from any other player waering terror / bronzewood / plaguefire or feat from DC -17,5% DR and it will become more more
in PVP the damage is much lower normally 40% DR fro tenacity , except the target has no tenacity and low defence, can´t say what the dummy has got , but daring shout is 20% less DR on a separate layer, bypassing Negation enchant and tenacity, so do thretening rush on top
so you debuff your target a lot beside the insane selfbuffs, this works against lots of classes except TR
If you don't like fighting pugs... then why do you feel the need to flex your muscles? That is the thing that makes me believe it is out of frustration.
Yeah.. and TBH... the GWF in the video... well I wont comment on that.
PS: 60k+ hit on Crit, only 1 single hit from Sure Strike, not using any artifact, you are getting closer...
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
In the end, that's the real question, isn't it?
They complain all the time how there isn't real competition, and it also "hurts them as much as it hurts us" when they meet low-level pug groups in Dom or GG, and they always say they don't enjoy slaughtering pugs. But if that's true, then why in the world are they gathering up all the good players into a single team, and then queueing with that?
When queues are left at the mercy of total randomness, sometimes you'll get a nightmare situation where all of the BiS players in that timezone are on the enemy team. Sometimes you get the cake-walk where they are on your team. In most cases, dictated by chance, it just so happens the randomness will have most of them spread apart in both teams for more or less even conditions. For the BiS player, if they truly want a chance to fight against equals, then not making a premade will have better chances to do so, rather than gathering all of that competition to your team, which you don't fight against.
So if they all want the "challenge", and they don't really want to slaughter pugs as well, then WHY THE H3LL are they making premades in the first place?
...
You see now what I mean by 'lying through the teeth' or 'don't give a sheet' ?
People who really care about the PvP don't do stuff like making premades to queue in GG, in the first place.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Ok ok let's see. It's crit, i'll skip damage encounters and focus on SS. It might be:
The ones already mentioned plus:
15% crit severity from heroic feat, 2% crit severity from boon+ another 5% crit severity from ToD boon+ daring shout mark+DR debuff
Don't remember if DS mark adds up to threar rush mark. I tested it but couldn't tell. In case it doesn't add up, then swordmaster and WMS debuff.
Might also use vorpal to buff the crit, since we're talking about a crit hit, but TFey could be enough.
So it's
Daring Shout mark + DR debuff
Threat rush mark OR Weapon Master Strike debuff
Hidden daggers buff (rank 4)
Destroyer capstone full stacks
Focused Destroyer full stacks
Battle fury buff (rank4)
Added crit severity from feats and boons
Added at-will damage from feats
Artifact Main Hand Sure Strike buff
Can also may be replace Daring Shout with Come And Get It damage buff?
Am i closer? Mh? MH? MMMHH?
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Ok so i'll throw in 2 more things:
- wrathful determination for extra damage buff when determination bar is filled, since with battle fury and unfettered strikes you might not need bravery
- skip countless scars if you already have high lifesteal and TNegation and put 5 points in instigator's Student of the Sword+ 10 still in sentinel for mark damage buff.
Uh, forgot to mention it but i was giving it as a "given"...executioner's style feat.
- Threat rush mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Daring shout added DR rank4+ enemy DR debuff+ mark (combat advantage+ feated mark)
- Destro capstone full stacks
- Hidden Daggers Buff rank 4
- Battle fury buff rank 4
- At-will buff feats
- Executioner's style
- Destroyer 3 stacks rank 4 + feated Focused destroyer
- Could switch 5 points from countless scars to student of the sword if you have already TNegation, considering DS buff to your DR and the fact you are sprinting more (30% DR during sprint)
- Could use wrathful determination as 2nd passive in place of bravery considering the use of battle fury (more sprint) and unfettered strikes feat
Is a lot of damage buffs piled up.
destroyer only stacks if 3 targets are hit
1. threaetening rush -8% DR
2. daring shout -20% DR (double marked)
3. daggers+40% bonus
4. FLS--> (trample the fallen +battle trample+15%+25%)
5. ten stacks from unstoppable already active+50% bouns
6. combat advantage +15% + charismabonus + 3% (campfirebonus) + x% from artifacts + IWD Boon 400+ lets say all in all 25% ?
class feats wraithfull determination +12,5%+ trample the fallen +15% (+battle trample-->25% weapondamage as physical damage)
devasting critical +15% crit severity+ 2% Icewindboon + 8% from ToD + p vorp 50%
destroyer: great weapon focus / Disciple of war/ focussed destroyer / executioners style / destroyers purpose
sentinel: powerfull challenge +15% to marked targets /battle trample
enchants : P vorp
mainhand feat -sure strike -
critseverity 75+ 15+2 + 8 + 50 Wild storm Elixir +300 Crit strike, +10% crit severity for 3600 s, persists through death= 160 crit severity
3000 x 1,08 x 1,20 x 1,4 x 1,15 x 1,25 x 1,5 x 1,25 x 1,15= 16871 x 1,3 (executioners style)=21932
21932 + 21932 x 1,6 (critseverity)= 57023
Nope for destroyers. Focused destroyer feat my sir. It's a must. Feated it's a 36% damage boost pretty much, and with battle fury you are SSing al lthe time, with daring shout you go unstoppable more often (faster at-will), so the destroyer stacks are all up most of the time.
Other flaw in your theorycrafting:
Trample of the fallen: procs when the target is controlled. His rotation with battle fury has no control (battle fury/daring shout/hidden daggers).
It's powerful challenge feat only. No battle trample.
My guess is he gave up countless scars to get 50% reduced cooldown and increased duration on battle fury, compensating with TNegation and TFey, but might also be PVorpal for added crit severity.
Executioner's style and basically what i wrote above is enough to buff Sure Strike at that level.
thought you ment the class feature : destroyer , that stacks 3 times
Daring shout + dagger + FLS (takedown)
skip battle fury and take battle trample and trample the fallen bc its 15%+25% damage to controled targets
compared to 20% from battle fury, but sounds also interesting going battle fury...
all in all it would be no big advantage going IV if using only Threatening rush from all abilities?
Battle fury feated is 20% buff on EVERY HIT for 8s on a 12s cooldown.
It's FAR better than trample. In those 8 seconds you hit a lot. In the CC time of FLS stun reduced by tenacity, deflect and elven battle, you may be hit 1 time with IBS.
It's basically 20% damage buff 80% of the time vs 40% damage buff every 17s on 1 hit.
I'd go for the first option.
right, but you have to get to 50k crit, how?
btw I get cc almost constantly in PVP, so the bonus would also work on cc´d targets from a CW, TR Hunter etc, so the effect would be much better than once all 17 second?
but if I should chose i would take your battle fury, bc its AP, Stamina and damagebuff at once ...much better, but no reason to go for IV except Threatening rush in that case?
most GWF rely on stuns like FLS/TD and hard hits in between?
Threatening rush is added mark and gap closing which allows you to stay in melee range and SS even more. Mark lasts longer and is easier to apply that way than WMS debuff, in PvP.
Just heorycrafting but Swordmaster might work if you go another route, which is full AP gain build, high recovery and ArP that feed your power also (feat), AP gain cloak and AP mount+ new artifact set that gives the 25% AP back after using daily+DC sigil+AP gain new mount, spam dailies with steely defense damage immunity as passive, high life steal, and AP gain from daring shout. BiS players that can go as high as 8k recovery and 8k ArP, can still get to 30% crit chance then go for Fey or Terror for debuff/buff. Might potentially allow you to spam dailies and take advantage of the damage immunity from steely defense more.
Just heorycrafting, don't know if it might work but with so many AP gain sources you might literally spam dailies and immunity to damage...
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
1) Nobody likes losing, especially being roflolstomped. That's heavily discussed above.
2) To add salt to wound, the bad behaviour/attitude of BIS players in the opposite team aggravate the situation. During NCL, I've met many well geared players who go out of their way to prevent new players from getting their NCL tokens. The worst being a particular 4k IL Paladin who shouted in 'Say' that "noobs should not PVP" and proceeded to massacre anyone who came down from spawn.
3) Abused/Trolled by our own teammates. Much of the discussion above focused on pugs being abused by opposition teams. However, abuse by players from the same team is happening all the time. I've seen BIS players jumping on pugs and blaming them for a losing match, verbally abusing them during the game.
Many good players are duo-queuing for DOM PVP nowadays and sometimes, the key determinant for the match is which team had the stronger pugs. I've seen both ends of the spectrum whereby good BIS players guided the pug set to victory and bad BIS players scolding/blaming pugs right from the start for fighting off nodes, not having appropriate gears, etc.
At the end of the day, the attitude of individual players will impact the experience your team mates and opponents have in PVP.
Much blame has been put on BIS PVPers but in their defense, I've also seen poor attitude from pugs. I had matches whereby PVPers tried to guide pugs by teaching them the importance of capping, fighting on nodes, providing gearing advices, etc but the pugs replied with the likes of "shut up and play the game", "f*** off", "I play the game however I wish..." or "I'm just here for my dailies, who cares".
As an individual who solo queue all the time, I can only constantly remind myself to be nice and nurturing when I'm lucky enough to be on the winning team or to be a more gracious loser if I'm dealt a bad hand... and of course laugh off the comments from abusive players.
It was:
Destroyer rank 4+ Focused destroyer feat
Hidden daggers rank 4
Battle fury rank 4
Destroyer capstone
Threat rush mark
powerful challenge feat
Executioner's style feat
At-will buffing feats (don't remember the names)
Sure Strike buff on main hand
Other mixed stuff (crit severity boons and feats, combat advantage feats and so on...too much stuff to list all, it's overall build).
Weapon enchant was PPF but would've been probably better with a PVorpal buffing the crit more.
But in combat the DS debuff would be nullified probably too fast (enemy just needs to attack you) but the DR buff might help. Kept countless scars, too useful in pvp.
Might also replace DS with restoring strike?
I'm not good with math. But DS determination gain+AP gain+DR mmmh...might be better (more unstoppable, more dailies).
he uses dagger/battle fury and some stun, takedown i guess since it recharges really quick if you take relentless battle fury
DS is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway, my warlock is a mile away and the animation is still going on, battle fury is casted by running !
you need any kind of stun in PVP, otherwise its really hard, and having the feat you can cc someone all 5 seconds, thats quite good, missing the target it recharges much faster, so second chance after 2,5 seconds !
Weapon mastery+bravery i guess
having 5k movement and some points in fast runner you even can play this build with swordmaster i guess, in that case you can selfbuff your at will some more, Threatening rush surely is better
would be interested in the heroic feats...
he skips countlees scars or better
-->skip focussed destroyer, it deos not help that much in PVP I guess, btw hitting the dummy i do not see any buff/stack by that feat, can´t see the icon on myself nor on the target, nothing even hitting the puppet for serveral minutes, is it bugged?
say that I am right
i am pretty sure I will respecc for taht build with my crappy GWF
I am also using pPF, cheap but not effective against BIS player at all since. It only reduces defence, so reducing the overall DR from a CW/WL/Hunter with P Negation means 70%fix DR (no mitigated by PF) and reducing the 12% defence to about 7% by 3 stacks from 15% debuff
so all in all his DR is reduced to 77% (3% under cap) thats poor
pBronzewood would do better 82%-16% (bypassing arpresist and T negation) = 66%
taking t feytouched its flat 18% damagebuff and taking p vorp its 50%+damage from incoming damage, if tenacity would not diminish your crits for 40% so its only 30%+ for crits
pretty sure he uses T feytouched as all BIS player do
I tested DS+Daggers+BF in some matches, and for group fight it's surprisingly good. Not much for damage but more for determination gain, AP gain and added DR on my soulforged GWF.
Also allowed me to 1v1 good with some TRs cause if you're smart you can mark double (i do it no problem, just need a bit of anticipation), and buffing your daggers with battlefury you can hit TRs from range harder, then chase and SS them down. Going unstoppable more also, allows you to tank more their damage. DS range is good, it's not hard to mark the enemies.
However, in 1v1 i don't know, might not be that good (couldn't test enough) cause the added damage from mark will be cancelled immediately and the DR buff on 1 target is not so high, same the determination gain.
On a pure testing purpose, it worked good enough the double mark from DS+threat rush.
Don't really have that much time to test every possibility but it's basically a runner build that takes advantage of module 6 increased weapon damage/ at-will damage and rank 4 powers.
I couldn't skip countless scars, being a soulforged users i felt like i needed it more.
Rotations, however, are changed a lot usually. I change them depending on enemy team composition, and even the enemy i face. Depending on the situation one rotation might be not as effective, while another might give better results. My opinion/ experience.