To your group constellation and to put a bit of stuff in perspective:
HR: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Pants&Shirt, BIS Ring, Almost BIS Armor only two parts not upgraded)
CW: 2,6K (Legendary Belt, Legendary Main Weapon, perfect balanced stats)
GWF: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Rings, BIS Pants&Shirts, perfect balanced stats)
GF: 2,1K (Partial T2 PvP Set, BIS Pants&Shirts, good balanced stats with great future if upgraded, very promising)
DC: 3,1K = I think i detected your almost BIS Fighter or more said cleric. High Prophet Set to debuff the Boss (+30% more damage), Legendary Artifact Gear, three mythic artifacts, Lathander Set to grant after dying power and recovery and health, BIS Rings, BIS Shirts and i think she must have around rank 10 enchantments because you lose a lot of iLVL with the old T1 stuff)
So you have three really good geared DPS machines, two from them owns already the lostmauth set. The cleric adds up +30% damage while compensate the loss of his armor with his remaining gear. And all of you wears 2 and more class artifacts.
Sorry, but i smell a fraud. But still a nice fight. Strangely i didn't understand why you died three times while you where using your shield, maybe DR bug?
Post edited by karakla1 on
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
To your group constellation and to put a bit of stuff in perspective:
HR: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Pants&Shirt, BIS Ring, Almost BIS Armor only two parts not upgraded)
CW: 2,6K (Legendary Belt, Legendary Main Weapon, perfect balanced stats)
GF: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Rings, BIS Pants&Shirts, perfect balanced stats)
GF: 2,1K (Partial T2 PvP Set, BIS Pants&Shirts, good balanced stats with great future if upgraded, very promising)
DC: 3,1K = I think i detected your almost BIS Fighter or more said cleric. High Prophet Set to debuff the Boss (+30% more damage), Legendary Artifact Gear, three mythic artifacts, Lathander Set to grant after dying power and recovery and health, BIS Rings, BIS Shirts and i think she must have around rank 10 enchantments because you lose a lot of iLVL with the old T1 stuff)
So you have three really good geared DPS machines, two from them owns already the lostmauth set. The cleric adds up +30% damage while compensate the loss of his armor with his remaining gear. And all of you wears 2 and more class artifacts.
Sorry, but i smell a fraud. But still a nice fight. Strangely i didn't understand why you died three times while you where using your shield, maybe DR bug?
i dont have lostmauth set on tank. ;p i dont know where you saw it . i wear greater belt of constitution.
There is a W missing in the first GF and it seems you know what's up
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited July 2015
is a thing i didnt try yet on tank and i dont know if will be effective. I Chose over the enchached mark the shield talent.
That has result to lose sometimes the aggro but in case i use the mark if i can use often tide to restore stamina. THAT boss has many tricky moves and i need to block more.
YOU said Why i died. IS the mechanic on gf aggregrativing strike you cant cancel the cast. YOU target to left and boss go right for example and hit you.
Wow. You really do love saying words like BiS and iLvL over and over without context, don't you?
First off, some of these folks are legiters. They are part of a group dedicated to running dungeons without using exploits, by focusing on skill, knowledge and experience. You do NOT call them frauds unless you a) have proof or b) wish to challenge the integrity of the legit community.
Obviously their approach to playing the game makes them an incredibly tough bunch, I would not suggest doing the latter.
Now, some fun facts for you:
1) The HR is only using blue artifact gear, and yet he manages to get second place in Paingiver. Seriously, only people in PURPLES, at least, should be attempting this fight. That's quite a handicap. FYI, purple weapon > "BiS" pants, shirt, armors and rings (at least if you're already wearing T1s). Why? a) I already explained that, feel free to check the stats/their value yourself and b) the second slot on those rings are defense slots, feel free to imagine how useful they would be for this fight.
And the Lostmauth set isn't that hard to get if you keep doing T1s/skirmishes on your way to generating AD, btw.
I see you didn't care you mention that he was also focusing on mitigation/control as much as damage.
2) Same for the GF, I see some blues. Gear handicap, partly mitigated by good build (nice Steel Defense build, btw).
3) The wizard was focusing on control. Hell, as far as I can tell Aulduron slotted Icy Terrain and Entangling Force for this fight. That tells you a) his damage was secondary and b) he was focusing on debuffs.
4) Many of them are not even using overload enchants or special potions (they should as those can be worth more a lot more than several hundred stats, but apparently these particular group has experienced people so meh). No alchemy potions too as far as I can tell, and some of those are certainly worth more than several hundred stats.
Many of them appear to be using ioun stones with loyal gear to boost their stats, though.
5) What the heck is "perfect balanced stats" supposed to mean? Because as far as I can tell, the HR and the GWF are overstacking ArP, and the GF is still trying to decide which stats to stack.
And really, you focus on that and not their skill/power use/builds?
6) Korvin is beastly at what he does, I'll give you that. But really, it's people like him who should be attempting to beat epic CC - people who are skilled, people with good builds/actually do know what they're doing, people who have a plan and people who are (at least) in all purples, rank 8+, greater weapon enchants (and at least a lesser Soulforged) and with good companions/companion gear.
If you just want to finish a more reasonable T2, you do eToS.
7) I see you didn't even bother mentioning a key part of their tactic - stacking mitigation debuffs on the boss (hence the use of powers/gear like Divine Glow, High Prophet, Lantern, etc).
This allows them to whittle down the boss even as they focus on killing adds.
8) Overall tactic seems to be to kite boss flames into some kind of circle while people kill adds/GF keeps boss busy/DC babysits GF. Then stack debuffs like mad on boss and DPS quickly when adds are down. Nice.
Makes one wonder what exactly your group was doing when you claimed they were "full equipped" and that they knew their class. You don't need to have done T2s to know some of this stuff, and if you were actually being specific about what your group was doing people might actually have something useful to suggest. The fight is NOT supposed to be easy, that's why it took several tries for this group to beat it. And they deserve bragging rights for pulling it off.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Wow. You really do love saying words like BiS and iLvL over and over without context, don't you?
First off, some of these folks are legiters. They are part of a group dedicated to running dungeons without using exploits, by focusing on skill, knowledge and experience. You do NOT call them frauds unless you a) have proof or b) wish to challenge the integrity of the legit community.
Obviously their approach to playing the game makes them an incredibly tough bunch, I would not suggest doing the latter.
Now, some fun facts for you:
1) The HR is only using blue artifact gear, and yet he manages to get second place in Paingiver. Seriously, only people in PURPLES, at least, should be attempting this fight. That's quite a handicap. FYI, purple weapon > "BiS" pants, shirt, armors and rings (at least if you're already wearing T1s). Why? a) I already explained that, feel free to check the stats/their value yourself and b) the second slot on those rings are defense slots, feel free to imagine how useful they would be for this fight.
And the Lostmauth set isn't that hard to get if you keep doing T1s/skirmishes on your way to generating AD, btw.
I see you didn't care you mention that he was also focusing on mitigation/control as much as damage.
2) Same for the GF, I see some blues. Gear handicap, partly mitigated by good build (nice Steel Defense build, btw).
3) The wizard was focusing on control. Hell, as far as I can tell Aulduron slotted Icy Terrain and Entangling Force for this fight. That tells you a) his damage was secondary and b) he was focusing on debuffs.
4) Many of them are not even using overload enchants or special potions (they should as those can be worth more a lot more than several hundred stats, but apparently these particular group has experienced people so meh). No alchemy potions too as far as I can tell, and some of those are certainly worth more than several hundred stats.
Many of them appear to be using ioun stones with loyal gear to boost their stats, though.
5) What the heck is "perfect balanced stats" supposed to mean? Because as far as I can tell, the HR and the GWF are overstacking ArP, and the GF is still trying to decide which stats to stack.
And really, you focus on that and not their skill/power use/builds?
6) Korvin is beastly at what he does, I'll give you that. But really, it's people like him who should be attempting to beat epic CC - people who are skilled, people with good builds/actually do know what they're doing, people who have a plan and people who are (at least) in all purples, rank 8+, greater weapon enchants (and at least a lesser Soulforged) and with good companions/companion gear.
If you just want to finish a more reasonable T2, you do eToS.
7) I see you didn't even bother mentioning a key part of their tactic - stacking mitigation debuffs on the boss (hence the use of powers/gear like Divine Glow, High Prophet, Lantern, etc).
This allows them to whittle down the boss even as they focus on killing adds.
8) Overall tactic seems to be to kite boss flames into some kind of circle while people kill adds/GF keeps boss busy/DC babysits GF. Then stack debuffs like mad on boss and DPS quickly when adds are down. Nice.
Makes one wonder what exactly your group was doing when you claimed they were "full equipped" and that they knew their class. You don't need to have done T2s to know some of this stuff, and if you were actually being specific about what your group was doing people might actually have something useful to suggest. The fight is NOT supposed to be easy, that's why it took several tries for this group to beat it. And they deserve bragging rights for pulling it off.
my point is that exactly you say they are good players and use the right buffs-debuffs etc. i want to say you dont need to be bis to do the job right.
Tyrtallow you seem not to understand what I wanted to tell so I will explain it again, and slow, so you have time to comprehend my statement.
At first, how works ilvl?
Ilvl kind of strange and works in steps. While around 1,800 you wear green stuff and partial stuff below level 70. At around 2,000 ilvl you have blue level 70 items, maybe some purple stuff but missing then one or two artifacts. Around 2,500-2,600 is the next step till you reach around 3,200 ilvl where you have legendary stuff and rank 9 enchantments and some armor kits, at this point you are almost BIS the only stuff to do is refining a bit more which increase an DD-Class damage by 10-30% (depends a bit on the class) and at the end you get around 3,900 to 4,000 ilvl.
The legit team (which still I think did a great job) has three DD-Classes with 2,600 ilvl. So some stuff is missing like best rings or maybe best armor but the loss in stats is not that big and the two best paingiver (GWF and HR) has both the best artifact set in the game: Lostmauth-Set.
This Set grants a DPS-Boost from 10 to 30% which depends on the class. GWF seems to benefits most with around 20-30%, how much the HR gets no clue but it shouldn’t be less then 10% additional damage. And of course is the HR the second in the paingiver chart if the CW is going to control stuff and besides this fact in his Playstyle he simply lacks a Lostmauth-Set (like I said earlier).
So DPS wise this group is excellent equipped and with CW also has a good control in almost every fight. I mean a GWF can deal a huge amount of damage and the HR isn’t bad either and he provides the group with a buff that allows everyone to get hit once without damage.
The GF is also well equipped. His ilvl is only around 2,100 but he has already a very good armor. Two parts of PvP Set and two parts of upgrades T1.5 Set grants him almost the maximum of hit points and defense a GF can get from his armor while using a Con-Belt that gives him additional 8% hit points and a Lathanders Cloak grants him additional armor class.
To explain this further: The main source of hit points is the armor. PvP and PvE armor has the same amount of hit points granted to a character and also the same amount defense. With this mix the GF only miss minor stat points in other stats but because he is a Tank it is not really a loss. So the person build this Tank made a pretty good discount build. And he gets supported by an excellent equipped DC.
The DC has 3,200 ilvl and he wears the old T1 High Prophet Set!
High Prophet grants a debuff on Monsters. For every stack of this debuff a monster gets +10% damage and it can stack up to three times means you deal +30% on the monster. +30% only by this old T1 Set no other powers or abilities and no one can ever get again this set only if he is willing to spend like 1-2 million AD on the auction house.
And the best is the DC has so good gear he can compensate the loss of his stats from the armor by the BIS Gear he already wears. If he would wear a T1 or T2 Armor he would have like 3,400-3,500 ilvl which means he wears rank 10 and maybe some rank 11 enchantments.
Seriously this group was build for success. I said on page 1 or 2 I still can’t imagine a random group with around 2,000 to 2,500 ilvl can accomplish this dungeon. And I never said item level alone is required, I said it has a bigger impact on the game as skill, but skill is still required in certain ways. And the “skill-level” in Neverwinter is pretty low and the fight as I told not that difficult he is plain unfair.
And to tell you why it is unfair: The Boss instant teleports and can kill a not-tank class with one single hit. One missed dodge/block and you are dead. That is not difficult that is unfair, it is like throwing a child against a pro-boxer or more likely throw a light weight against a heavy weight boxer.
And it must not be your fault that you couldn’t dodge. Neverwinter has pretty often delays and lags or other bug that spikes the damage beyond reasons till you die (DR Bug). Then you have some other problems like the behavior of the monster or inaccurate displayed range of melee attacks.
And my main problem with your whole statement is that ECC is the difficulties Dungeon in the game. Maybe, because of unfair design but it isn’t stated anywhere. It is not like it is stated as the only T3 Dungeon with the hardest difficulty; it is stated as another T2 Dungeon that simply allows players to enter at 2,000 ilvl to participate in it. The Dungeon itself is easy as any other T2 Dungeon but the Boss simply is another league.
And to the whole Fraud thingy: I said this because the DC simply uses outdated gear with an overpowered set bonus. He uses gear that he normally wouldn’t use and buff the damage of the group in ludicrous levels. Imagine a player that started with module 6, he can’t own such a set. So the whole run, the whole success to kill Traven Blackdagger simply underlines my statement that gear matters more than skill. It is in general a well equipped group that uses overpowered Sets.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
IS fun that is the most important to complete a dungeon. ( and is rewarding since give the shard of negation the seals).
Also is proven temple of the spider is faster than ecc with the glitch but no poeple act like glitch is fun. I am doing mostly the temple of the spider and if because when i am looking for poeple they say ecc for glitch.
TOS is even easier than the dragon lostmauth. IN lostmauth fires spawn after his roar invisible rocks hit you etc etc.
IN Tos you have to kill 2-3 spiders and a blademaster and block funny lasers even without tank you can do it.
As a sidenote. Can anybody here imagine that someone did not do the walk in the park dungeon time in mod 5? I think, I will never see any dungeons with my 1800 ilvl HR. But please, go ahead.
And for the people that say “we kill the boss on daily basis” I want a video or it didn’t happen. And I want a legit run and Paladin/GF-KV Bug is not legit.
Und die kennst du auch. Ausserdem werde ich mit meiner Gilde die Tage auch mal ein eCC Vid machen, ohne Bugusing. GWD genauso.
In english:
And you know them. Me and my guilde wanna do legit eCC/GWD too and we wanna make a vid too. Without any bugusing, nawptactics.
YEAH RIGHT... like EVERYONE in NWO has BiS?? These players are a joke. OH, because YOU can run it with 25k power means I can do the same with 12K power and a party gear nearly the same as I am... give me a break. BUT, I must say that You do make a very good point, unless you spend LOTS AND LOTS of real money, get most of your Artifacts to Teal, slot Rank 11's and 12's you will not be able to do eCC legit. Point taken. TY
Yea I wish they would reconsider some of the final boss fights in the dungeons. A challenge can be nice indeed but instant death -.- not a challenge. Given the 'challenge' that exists currently it would seem like the reward would be 100k astral diamonds spilt between all members of the party. 20k for each...already refined too.
I would be more a fan of splitting the dungeons into tiers. 2k-3k gets one tier and 3k-4k gets a high tier. Adjust rewards, mob hit points, and mob damage output accordingly. Cause trying to work a character from fresh level 70 to nicer geared level 70 is just woah given the current 'challenge' level of these dungeons.
Major injury kits....I'm surprised you can still get a 99 stack for less than 100k ad on the ah.
Sorry I am a rather new player in Neverwinter and I would not dare to question you guys skills but from the video I watched, I had the impression that the group was not even trying. People walking right into traps, into AOE's, apparently walking right into damage, lots of bad use of skills (dailies on dying adds for example), etc.
So as a "new" player I can only ask myself if you are really serious that you would still win playing like that, if you had 2k il. I am one of those guys who think that if you really want to win, you would not "risk" your run by doing elementary mistakes like that. That said, the group showed either that they "know" that they can win even by playing however they want or that their claims of "you need more experience" needs to be better defined. After all, in my book, experience is better shown as excellence.
Then again, I am a new player so I may also be thinking too hard about it.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited July 2015
One question i want to do only. When i take a look to lfg i see expierenced players ( they call theirselves exp). When you are exp you should know that temple of the spider is faster than ecc. Seems is so boring to kill 3 adds per 10 seconds.( blademaster can stay alive controlled and syndrith kill him or a gwf burst him down). WE talk about 3-4 adds in epic tos and lasers which a 3 years old kid can block them. SO easy dungeon but no ecc braindead decision to fight in every room archers and witches with high hp.
Change the exp to glitcher because that is not expierence when you cant do a funny and fast dungeon like tos.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Congrads to you guys, sorry that you will be trolled regardless of the fact that you did it legit. The only time they are willing to accept it as a legit run is when it is a 2k ilvl run with no fancy gear, even though they have fancy gear, because they can't do the dungeon and they want every excuse other then they are bad at the game and need to improve and therefor since they cannot do it legit, it is impossible and everyone who beats it is obviously cheating.
Unfortunately, the one run I did do with a 2k group I did not record and since that time, 3 of the players in the team have quit. If they were still around, I would do a repeat run and upload it, so that they could realise that maybe the dungeon is doable and maybe they should look to their own problems before calling everyone who has actually beaten the dungeon properly cheaters. FFS, I have people calling my sig Photoshopped because obviously last mod it was impossible to solo castle never...
You guys deserve a little bit of recognition though, for being one of the 100 odd players who do this dungeon legit
Any questions?
And sry...im far away from 25k Power. Power isnt that main attribute anymore for a GWF. But keep goin with your "founded" arguments. I like them
And dont say things like people from remember my name are a joke. They really dont like such insults. Believe me ^^
So, looking at the posts above, the complaints are from people who:
-can't even get their own Lostmauth set - why you wouldn't want one if you want to do T2s is beyond me, the reason people are not complaining about the Lostmauth set as much as say, Negation, is because the Lostmauth set is quite accessible
-people who don't seem to realize how easy it is to get common artifacts to purple/legendary in mod6
-people who don't understand the implications of attempting this fight with blue artifact gear
-people who seem to have no idea how to stack stats using companions, loyal companion gear and friendly buffs
-people who don't know what GF/HR skills do and just how many close calls mamalion1234 actually had back there (that's why it took 5 attempts and OP still says "Seriously this group was build for success" LOL)
-people who can't see how much effort it's taking the controllers/DC to keep everyone else from dying (because mamalion1234 is running Knight's Valor - anyone familiar with the power knows the implications, the OP obviously doesn't)
-and of course (in the case of our dear OP) people who apparently want the most difficult fight in the game to be doable in just blues/greens, and regardless if your stats are all over the place because he keeps saying words like "ilvl" and "BiS" without context over and over
Hell he doesn't even seem to notice what stats artifacts have - he must have absolutely no idea what he's even talking about if he thinks that DC is managing to get by using the HP set because of her "oh so gamebreaking" legendary/mythical gear. Oh yes, it's definitely that and not because the other three "DPSers" (actually it's just ONE dedicated DPSer, the rest are focusing on control) are watching her like a hawk and keeping adds down/controlled.
And as I mentioned, they have their handicaps (the tank only has ~100k HP and is in blues - that should be worrying enough for people who actually understand how hitpoints and damage reduction works in the game, unlike our OP and his pitiful attempt at an explanation up there). High Prophet definitely helps fix that, but if you don't have High Prophet then that simply means you should be in a group with more efficient PvE equipment/powers/stats.
As I said, only people in all purples (except perhaps the non-tank, who can make do with t1 gear) should really be attempting this fight. Hell, I'd argue that people attempting this fight should be using alchemy.
Frankly it's getting ridiculous just how much some people (especially our dear "I play for fun" OP) want to beat one of the hardest fights in the game with practically zero plan (none was mentioned), very little understanding of game mechanics/powers, no concept about the importance of control and teamwork and who basically only see other people as walking iLvLs.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
So, looking at the posts above, the complaints are from people who:
-can't even get their own Lostmauth set - why you wouldn't want one if you want to do T2s is beyond me, the reason people are not complaining about the Lostmauth set as much as say, Negation, is because the Lostmauth set is quite accessible
Thank you for underlining my point that gears matters more than skill and for your statement that people with less optimized gear should be locked out from game content. Besides the drop rate for the horn is pretty low and if you buy all from the auctionhouse you spend around 1,2 million AD
-people who don't seem to realize how easy it is to get common artifacts to purple/legendary in mod6
The cost to get one artifact to legendary are 600,000 + 3,85 million RP which are around 300,000 AD if you buy rank 4 enchantments this means around 900,000 AD per Artifact to legendary. One character can generate 24.000 AD per day, so for people which only have one character they would need around 37 days to get enough AD to get ONE artifacts up to legendary, maybe they can get another one to purple with all the RP from dread ring, while the monster constant killing them, because they have no decent gear. like a purple or legendary artifact.
-people who don't understand the implications of attempting this fight with blue artifact gear
If the game allows you to enter with your gear, why is it you fault to be geared in such a manner in a dungeon?
And blue T1 armor is the step before epic T2 armor, so the plan is to get blue gear to get purple gear.
-people who seem to have no idea how to stack stats using companions, loyal companion gear and friendly buffs
Yeah to understand stats is pretty basic, to get a companion and loyal gear is pretty expensive. I mean, the cheapest ioun stone cost 600,000 AD and even if you use another companion like a defender AD to equip him.
-people who don't know what GF/HR skills do and just how many close calls mamalion1234 actually had back there (that's why it took 5 attempts and OP still says "Seriously this group was build for success" LOL)
How would you made it better. You could post your strategy, but you keep mocking and bragging like a child. So sorry if i can't take you serious.
-people who can't see how much effort it's taking the controllers/DC to keep everyone else from dying (because mamalion1234 is running Knight's Valor - anyone familiar with the power knows the implications, the OP obviously doesn't)
That he gets half the damage and the healer must focuse a giant circle around him to heal him which is HAMSTER easy to hit if the group is closer together? Or while using an astral shield that still negates the damage of the enemies?
-and of course (in the case of our dear OP) people who apparently want the most difficult fight in the game to be doable in just blues/greens, and regardless if your stats are all over the place because he keeps saying words like "ilvl" and "BiS" without context over and over
Their stats wasn't all over the places, they where well focused, maybe you should read better, i explained this in another post. Seriously are you a grapho-legasthenia?
Hell he doesn't even seem to notice what stats artifacts have - he must have absolutely no idea what he's even talking about if he thinks that DC is managing to get by using the HP set because of her "oh so gamebreaking" legendary/mythical gear. Oh yes, it's definitely that and not because the other three "DPSers" (actually it's just ONE dedicated DPSer, the rest are focusing on control) are watching her like a hawk and keeping adds down/controlled.
Didn't your mother teach you not to talk about people in the third person if they are still in the room? That is pretty rude dude, but it shouldn't be something new to me till you are ever like that, not really constructive in a discussion.
And as I mentioned, they have their handicaps (the tank only has ~100k HP and is in blues - that should be worrying enough for people who actually understand how hitpoints and damage reduction works in the game,...
...unlike our OP and his pitiful attempt at an explanation up there). High Prophet definitely helps fix that, but if you don't have High Prophet then that simply means you should be in a group with more efficient PvE equipment/powers/stats.
Thank you again for underlining that gear matters more than skill.
As I said, only people in all purples (except perhaps the non-tank, who can make do with t1 gear) should attempt this fight. Hell, I'd argue that people attempting this fight should be using alchemy.
Yeah of course, the little 2K twerps with only blues and only a bit of purple that should run this content because it was meant for them should be locked out if it, you are totally right.
Frankly it's getting ridiculous just how much some people (especially our dear "I play for fun" OP) want to beat one of the hardest fights in the game with practically zero plan (none was mentioned), very little understanding of game mechanics/powers, no concept about the importance of control and teamwork and who basically only see other people as walking iLvLs.
Now you are disagree with yourself, first gear matters now skill. What is it that you want?
Oh i know it already, not to have a meaningfull discussion more like a troll feast and to win a topic that is discussed.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Sorry I am a rather new player in Neverwinter and I would not dare to question you guys skills but from the video I watched, I had the impression that the group was not even trying. People walking right into traps, into AOE's, apparently walking right into damage, lots of bad use of skills (dailies on dying adds for example), etc.
So as a "new" player I can only ask myself if you are really serious that you would still win playing like that, if you had 2k il. I am one of those guys who think that if you really want to win, you would not "risk" your run by doing elementary mistakes like that. That said, the group showed either that they "know" that they can win even by playing however they want or that their claims of "you need more experience" needs to be better defined. After all, in my book, experience is better shown as excellence.
Then again, I am a new player so I may also be thinking too hard about it.
Perhaps they were walking into traps and aoes just to show how insanely high the damage has become now.
Oh and I hope Cryptic is really reading all of this because you can always tell when people's tempers start flaring there is a legit problem. Fixing the problem will naturally calm those tempers. Denying they exist and running from there appearances will only further drive people away from the game.
Comments
To your group constellation and to put a bit of stuff in perspective:
HR: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Pants&Shirt, BIS Ring, Almost BIS Armor only two parts not upgraded)
CW: 2,6K (Legendary Belt, Legendary Main Weapon, perfect balanced stats)
GWF: 2,6K (Lostmauth Set, BIS Rings, BIS Pants&Shirts, perfect balanced stats)
GF: 2,1K (Partial T2 PvP Set, BIS Pants&Shirts, good balanced stats with great future if upgraded, very promising)
DC: 3,1K = I think i detected your almost BIS Fighter or more said cleric. High Prophet Set to debuff the Boss (+30% more damage), Legendary Artifact Gear, three mythic artifacts, Lathander Set to grant after dying power and recovery and health, BIS Rings, BIS Shirts and i think she must have around rank 10 enchantments because you lose a lot of iLVL with the old T1 stuff)
So you have three really good geared DPS machines, two from them owns already the lostmauth set. The cleric adds up +30% damage while compensate the loss of his armor with his remaining gear. And all of you wears 2 and more class artifacts.
Sorry, but i smell a fraud. But still a nice fight. Strangely i didn't understand why you died three times while you where using your shield, maybe DR bug?
i dont have lostmauth set on tank. ;p i dont know where you saw it . i wear greater belt of constitution.
That has result to lose sometimes the aggro but in case i use the mark if i can use often tide to restore stamina. THAT boss has many tricky moves and i need to block more.
YOU said Why i died. IS the mechanic on gf aggregrativing strike you cant cancel the cast. YOU target to left and boss go right for example and hit you.
First off, some of these folks are legiters. They are part of a group dedicated to running dungeons without using exploits, by focusing on skill, knowledge and experience. You do NOT call them frauds unless you a) have proof or b) wish to challenge the integrity of the legit community.
Obviously their approach to playing the game makes them an incredibly tough bunch, I would not suggest doing the latter.
Now, some fun facts for you:
1) The HR is only using blue artifact gear, and yet he manages to get second place in Paingiver. Seriously, only people in PURPLES, at least, should be attempting this fight. That's quite a handicap. FYI, purple weapon > "BiS" pants, shirt, armors and rings (at least if you're already wearing T1s). Why? a) I already explained that, feel free to check the stats/their value yourself and b) the second slot on those rings are defense slots, feel free to imagine how useful they would be for this fight.
And the Lostmauth set isn't that hard to get if you keep doing T1s/skirmishes on your way to generating AD, btw.
I see you didn't care you mention that he was also focusing on mitigation/control as much as damage.
2) Same for the GF, I see some blues. Gear handicap, partly mitigated by good build (nice Steel Defense build, btw).
3) The wizard was focusing on control. Hell, as far as I can tell Aulduron slotted Icy Terrain and Entangling Force for this fight. That tells you a) his damage was secondary and b) he was focusing on debuffs.
4) Many of them are not even using overload enchants or special potions (they should as those can be worth more a lot more than several hundred stats, but apparently these particular group has experienced people so meh). No alchemy potions too as far as I can tell, and some of those are certainly worth more than several hundred stats.
Many of them appear to be using ioun stones with loyal gear to boost their stats, though.
5) What the heck is "perfect balanced stats" supposed to mean? Because as far as I can tell, the HR and the GWF are overstacking ArP, and the GF is still trying to decide which stats to stack.
And really, you focus on that and not their skill/power use/builds?
6) Korvin is beastly at what he does, I'll give you that. But really, it's people like him who should be attempting to beat epic CC - people who are skilled, people with good builds/actually do know what they're doing, people who have a plan and people who are (at least) in all purples, rank 8+, greater weapon enchants (and at least a lesser Soulforged) and with good companions/companion gear.
If you just want to finish a more reasonable T2, you do eToS.
7) I see you didn't even bother mentioning a key part of their tactic - stacking mitigation debuffs on the boss (hence the use of powers/gear like Divine Glow, High Prophet, Lantern, etc).
This allows them to whittle down the boss even as they focus on killing adds.
8) Overall tactic seems to be to kite boss flames into some kind of circle while people kill adds/GF keeps boss busy/DC babysits GF. Then stack debuffs like mad on boss and DPS quickly when adds are down. Nice.
Makes one wonder what exactly your group was doing when you claimed they were "full equipped" and that they knew their class. You don't need to have done T2s to know some of this stuff, and if you were actually being specific about what your group was doing people might actually have something useful to suggest. The fight is NOT supposed to be easy, that's why it took several tries for this group to beat it. And they deserve bragging rights for pulling it off.
my point is that exactly you say they are good players and use the right buffs-debuffs etc. i want to say you dont need to be bis to do the job right.
At first, how works ilvl?
Ilvl kind of strange and works in steps. While around 1,800 you wear green stuff and partial stuff below level 70. At around 2,000 ilvl you have blue level 70 items, maybe some purple stuff but missing then one or two artifacts. Around 2,500-2,600 is the next step till you reach around 3,200 ilvl where you have legendary stuff and rank 9 enchantments and some armor kits, at this point you are almost BIS the only stuff to do is refining a bit more which increase an DD-Class damage by 10-30% (depends a bit on the class) and at the end you get around 3,900 to 4,000 ilvl.
The legit team (which still I think did a great job) has three DD-Classes with 2,600 ilvl. So some stuff is missing like best rings or maybe best armor but the loss in stats is not that big and the two best paingiver (GWF and HR) has both the best artifact set in the game: Lostmauth-Set.
This Set grants a DPS-Boost from 10 to 30% which depends on the class. GWF seems to benefits most with around 20-30%, how much the HR gets no clue but it shouldn’t be less then 10% additional damage. And of course is the HR the second in the paingiver chart if the CW is going to control stuff and besides this fact in his Playstyle he simply lacks a Lostmauth-Set (like I said earlier).
So DPS wise this group is excellent equipped and with CW also has a good control in almost every fight. I mean a GWF can deal a huge amount of damage and the HR isn’t bad either and he provides the group with a buff that allows everyone to get hit once without damage.
The GF is also well equipped. His ilvl is only around 2,100 but he has already a very good armor. Two parts of PvP Set and two parts of upgrades T1.5 Set grants him almost the maximum of hit points and defense a GF can get from his armor while using a Con-Belt that gives him additional 8% hit points and a Lathanders Cloak grants him additional armor class.
To explain this further: The main source of hit points is the armor. PvP and PvE armor has the same amount of hit points granted to a character and also the same amount defense. With this mix the GF only miss minor stat points in other stats but because he is a Tank it is not really a loss. So the person build this Tank made a pretty good discount build. And he gets supported by an excellent equipped DC.
The DC has 3,200 ilvl and he wears the old T1 High Prophet Set!
High Prophet grants a debuff on Monsters. For every stack of this debuff a monster gets +10% damage and it can stack up to three times means you deal +30% on the monster. +30% only by this old T1 Set no other powers or abilities and no one can ever get again this set only if he is willing to spend like 1-2 million AD on the auction house.
And the best is the DC has so good gear he can compensate the loss of his stats from the armor by the BIS Gear he already wears. If he would wear a T1 or T2 Armor he would have like 3,400-3,500 ilvl which means he wears rank 10 and maybe some rank 11 enchantments.
Seriously this group was build for success. I said on page 1 or 2 I still can’t imagine a random group with around 2,000 to 2,500 ilvl can accomplish this dungeon. And I never said item level alone is required, I said it has a bigger impact on the game as skill, but skill is still required in certain ways. And the “skill-level” in Neverwinter is pretty low and the fight as I told not that difficult he is plain unfair.
And to tell you why it is unfair: The Boss instant teleports and can kill a not-tank class with one single hit. One missed dodge/block and you are dead. That is not difficult that is unfair, it is like throwing a child against a pro-boxer or more likely throw a light weight against a heavy weight boxer.
And it must not be your fault that you couldn’t dodge. Neverwinter has pretty often delays and lags or other bug that spikes the damage beyond reasons till you die (DR Bug). Then you have some other problems like the behavior of the monster or inaccurate displayed range of melee attacks.
And my main problem with your whole statement is that ECC is the difficulties Dungeon in the game. Maybe, because of unfair design but it isn’t stated anywhere. It is not like it is stated as the only T3 Dungeon with the hardest difficulty; it is stated as another T2 Dungeon that simply allows players to enter at 2,000 ilvl to participate in it. The Dungeon itself is easy as any other T2 Dungeon but the Boss simply is another league.
And to the whole Fraud thingy: I said this because the DC simply uses outdated gear with an overpowered set bonus. He uses gear that he normally wouldn’t use and buff the damage of the group in ludicrous levels. Imagine a player that started with module 6, he can’t own such a set. So the whole run, the whole success to kill Traven Blackdagger simply underlines my statement that gear matters more than skill. It is in general a well equipped group that uses overpowered Sets.
Also is proven temple of the spider is faster than ecc with the glitch but no poeple act like glitch is fun. I am doing mostly the temple of the spider and if because when i am looking for poeple they say ecc for glitch.
TOS is even easier than the dragon lostmauth. IN lostmauth fires spawn after his roar invisible rocks hit you etc etc.
IN Tos you have to kill 2-3 spiders and a blademaster and block funny lasers even without tank you can do it.
As a sidenote. Can anybody here imagine that someone did not do the walk in the park dungeon time in mod 5? I think, I will never see any dungeons with my 1800 ilvl HR. But please, go ahead.
YEAH RIGHT... like EVERYONE in NWO has BiS?? These players are a joke. OH, because YOU can run it with 25k power means I can do the same with 12K power and a party gear nearly the same as I am... give me a break. BUT, I must say that You do make a very good point, unless you spend LOTS AND LOTS of real money, get most of your Artifacts to Teal, slot Rank 11's and 12's you will not be able to do eCC legit. Point taken. TY
I would be more a fan of splitting the dungeons into tiers. 2k-3k gets one tier and 3k-4k gets a high tier. Adjust rewards, mob hit points, and mob damage output accordingly. Cause trying to work a character from fresh level 70 to nicer geared level 70 is just woah given the current 'challenge' level of these dungeons.
Major injury kits....I'm surprised you can still get a 99 stack for less than 100k ad on the ah.
So as a "new" player I can only ask myself if you are really serious that you would still win playing like that, if you had 2k il. I am one of those guys who think that if you really want to win, you would not "risk" your run by doing elementary mistakes like that. That said, the group showed either that they "know" that they can win even by playing however they want or that their claims of "you need more experience" needs to be better defined. After all, in my book, experience is better shown as excellence.
Then again, I am a new player so I may also be thinking too hard about it.
Change the exp to glitcher because that is not expierence when you cant do a funny and fast dungeon like tos.
Unfortunately, the one run I did do with a 2k group I did not record and since that time, 3 of the players in the team have quit. If they were still around, I would do a repeat run and upload it, so that they could realise that maybe the dungeon is doable and maybe they should look to their own problems before calling everyone who has actually beaten the dungeon properly cheaters. FFS, I have people calling my sig Photoshopped because obviously last mod it was impossible to solo castle never...
You guys deserve a little bit of recognition though, for being one of the 100 odd players who do this dungeon legit
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2yte7d
Any questions?
And sry...im far away from 25k Power. Power isnt that main attribute anymore for a GWF. But keep goin with your "founded" arguments. I like them
And dont say things like people from remember my name are a joke. They really dont like such insults. Believe me ^^
Well.... If (IF!!!) you are a crit builded GWF you can make good dps with lostmauthset. But 30%? Try it...youll see
-can't even get their own Lostmauth set - why you wouldn't want one if you want to do T2s is beyond me, the reason people are not complaining about the Lostmauth set as much as say, Negation, is because the Lostmauth set is quite accessible
-people who don't seem to realize how easy it is to get common artifacts to purple/legendary in mod6
-people who don't understand the implications of attempting this fight with blue artifact gear
-people who seem to have no idea how to stack stats using companions, loyal companion gear and friendly buffs
-people who don't know what GF/HR skills do and just how many close calls mamalion1234 actually had back there (that's why it took 5 attempts and OP still says "Seriously this group was build for success" LOL)
-people who can't see how much effort it's taking the controllers/DC to keep everyone else from dying (because mamalion1234 is running Knight's Valor - anyone familiar with the power knows the implications, the OP obviously doesn't)
-and of course (in the case of our dear OP) people who apparently want the most difficult fight in the game to be doable in just blues/greens, and regardless if your stats are all over the place because he keeps saying words like "ilvl" and "BiS" without context over and over
Hell he doesn't even seem to notice what stats artifacts have - he must have absolutely no idea what he's even talking about if he thinks that DC is managing to get by using the HP set because of her "oh so gamebreaking" legendary/mythical gear. Oh yes, it's definitely that and not because the other three "DPSers" (actually it's just ONE dedicated DPSer, the rest are focusing on control) are watching her like a hawk and keeping adds down/controlled.
And as I mentioned, they have their handicaps (the tank only has ~100k HP and is in blues - that should be worrying enough for people who actually understand how hitpoints and damage reduction works in the game, unlike our OP and his pitiful attempt at an explanation up there). High Prophet definitely helps fix that, but if you don't have High Prophet then that simply means you should be in a group with more efficient PvE equipment/powers/stats.
As I said, only people in all purples (except perhaps the non-tank, who can make do with t1 gear) should really be attempting this fight. Hell, I'd argue that people attempting this fight should be using alchemy.
Frankly it's getting ridiculous just how much some people (especially our dear "I play for fun" OP) want to beat one of the hardest fights in the game with practically zero plan (none was mentioned), very little understanding of game mechanics/powers, no concept about the importance of control and teamwork and who basically only see other people as walking iLvLs.
Thank you for underlining my point that gears matters more than skill and for your statement that people with less optimized gear should be locked out from game content. Besides the drop rate for the horn is pretty low and if you buy all from the auctionhouse you spend around 1,2 million AD
The cost to get one artifact to legendary are 600,000 + 3,85 million RP which are around 300,000 AD if you buy rank 4 enchantments this means around 900,000 AD per Artifact to legendary. One character can generate 24.000 AD per day, so for people which only have one character they would need around 37 days to get enough AD to get ONE artifacts up to legendary, maybe they can get another one to purple with all the RP from dread ring, while the monster constant killing them, because they have no decent gear. like a purple or legendary artifact.
If the game allows you to enter with your gear, why is it you fault to be geared in such a manner in a dungeon?
And blue T1 armor is the step before epic T2 armor, so the plan is to get blue gear to get purple gear.
Yeah to understand stats is pretty basic, to get a companion and loyal gear is pretty expensive. I mean, the cheapest ioun stone cost 600,000 AD and even if you use another companion like a defender AD to equip him.
How would you made it better. You could post your strategy, but you keep mocking and bragging like a child. So sorry if i can't take you serious.
That he gets half the damage and the healer must focuse a giant circle around him to heal him which is HAMSTER easy to hit if the group is closer together? Or while using an astral shield that still negates the damage of the enemies?
Their stats wasn't all over the places, they where well focused, maybe you should read better, i explained this in another post. Seriously are you a grapho-legasthenia?
Didn't your mother teach you not to talk about people in the third person if they are still in the room? That is pretty rude dude, but it shouldn't be something new to me till you are ever like that, not really constructive in a discussion.
Currently not that well because of the DR bug.
Thank you again for underlining that gear matters more than skill.
Yeah of course, the little 2K twerps with only blues and only a bit of purple that should run this content because it was meant for them should be locked out if it, you are totally right.
Now you are disagree with yourself, first gear matters now skill. What is it that you want?
Oh i know it already, not to have a meaningfull discussion more like a troll feast and to win a topic that is discussed.
Perhaps they were walking into traps and aoes just to show how insanely high the damage has become now.
Oh and I hope Cryptic is really reading all of this because you can always tell when people's tempers start flaring there is a legit problem. Fixing the problem will naturally calm those tempers. Denying they exist and running from there appearances will only further drive people away from the game.