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Epic Crypt Of Cragmire
karakla1
Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
After a few runs in this "epic" dungeon and trying several times to kill the Boss Traven Blackdagger i want give some feedback for the Devs.
My last group was 2 TRs, 1 HR, 1 GF and 1 DC. All well equipped that means around 2,800+. The whole run through the Dungeons was a piece of cake only the small bosses where a bit difficult but nothing you could deal with. After about 20-30 minute we reached the boss room of Traven Blackdagger.
We tried it two times to kill this Boss. In our first attempt we get him to about 70-80% hit points before we wiped. In our second try we get him around 20% left. The whole fight felt like pain.
The problem is Traven Blackdagger throws bruning bottles around and cover the area with AOEs and if you touch them you die after 2-3 ticks. No big deal, because you can extinguish the flames with the barrel, but you need to inform the tank to do it so he can activate knights valor and go in block stance because if you extinguish the flames Traven Blackdagger goes in Blood Bath and this can kill the entire group.
The real problems are the monster. They doesn't die if they stay at the AOE flames and they can one or two shot you. To kill them takes only minor time but they can drag you in the fire and you die. They seem to be programmed to avoid the fire AOEs from Traven Blackdagger but do a bad job in it, if they are stunned they try to run to the next target through the flames THEN they seem to remember "wait i am not allowed to run through the flames" and then run back to their old position, sometimes they simply ignore that they stay in a AOE.
Another problem is that around 20% a lot of these witches spawn and cover the floor with additional AOEs that deal almost the same damage as Travens Blackdaggers. A nice game design idea but it doesn't work because to kill the witches you need a lot of time, even in the dungeon itself it takes a lot of time to kill one witch with all group members. So you are left with almost no space and can't reach the small monsters that can kill you with one or two shots and left with a boss with too much hit points. We wiped at this point and didn't bother to try it again because the whole fight was a pain in the HAMSTER because you get the overall cryptic problems too: Lagg, Glitchiness and inaccurate close combat attacks (i was like 4 meters away from Traven Blackdagger as one of his normal swing attacks killed me that couldn't even touch me by the animation itself)
The whole one battle to nearly kill Traven Blackdagger took about 30-40 minutes. This whole fight is a pain. It takes to long, is glitchy as hell and overall is pretty unfair.
My last group was 2 TRs, 1 HR, 1 GF and 1 DC. All well equipped that means around 2,800+. The whole run through the Dungeons was a piece of cake only the small bosses where a bit difficult but nothing you could deal with. After about 20-30 minute we reached the boss room of Traven Blackdagger.
We tried it two times to kill this Boss. In our first attempt we get him to about 70-80% hit points before we wiped. In our second try we get him around 20% left. The whole fight felt like pain.
The problem is Traven Blackdagger throws bruning bottles around and cover the area with AOEs and if you touch them you die after 2-3 ticks. No big deal, because you can extinguish the flames with the barrel, but you need to inform the tank to do it so he can activate knights valor and go in block stance because if you extinguish the flames Traven Blackdagger goes in Blood Bath and this can kill the entire group.
The real problems are the monster. They doesn't die if they stay at the AOE flames and they can one or two shot you. To kill them takes only minor time but they can drag you in the fire and you die. They seem to be programmed to avoid the fire AOEs from Traven Blackdagger but do a bad job in it, if they are stunned they try to run to the next target through the flames THEN they seem to remember "wait i am not allowed to run through the flames" and then run back to their old position, sometimes they simply ignore that they stay in a AOE.
Another problem is that around 20% a lot of these witches spawn and cover the floor with additional AOEs that deal almost the same damage as Travens Blackdaggers. A nice game design idea but it doesn't work because to kill the witches you need a lot of time, even in the dungeon itself it takes a lot of time to kill one witch with all group members. So you are left with almost no space and can't reach the small monsters that can kill you with one or two shots and left with a boss with too much hit points. We wiped at this point and didn't bother to try it again because the whole fight was a pain in the HAMSTER because you get the overall cryptic problems too: Lagg, Glitchiness and inaccurate close combat attacks (i was like 4 meters away from Traven Blackdagger as one of his normal swing attacks killed me that couldn't even touch me by the animation itself)
The whole one battle to nearly kill Traven Blackdagger took about 30-40 minutes. This whole fight is a pain. It takes to long, is glitchy as hell and overall is pretty unfair.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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Seriously, if this were any other game actual skill names would be mentioned and there would be details of an elaborate plan. At worst what you people are saying is "we tried a brute force approach on an end game fight, and failed". At best, "there was tanking, healing and some debuffing being done". Rather vague, don't you think?
For the lag, change char/recon helps (not everyone at once mind you).
AFAIK, a good tactic for that fight (according to a respected TR named Janne who has beaten him repeatedly) is to lure Blackdagger near the entrance/gate and then slowly make your way to the barrel as the ground gradually gets covered in flames. Use barrel, then repeat. Apparently they even use binds for emergency stuff like "use barrel asap", "mobs", etc, because the fight is meant to be taken seriously (you're obviously not here for the rewards, there's eToS for that).
Tank companions (to draw hits) and a reliable control character (preferably a wizard) apparently also help significantly, depending on the party's class composition. The fight never really gets easy, apparently.
Too many try the bug the boss exploit, and then will KICK YOU for not doing it. I am not saying what it is since one is not supposed to post exploits. Needless to say it has been reported already.
The problems with this exploit used multiply after trying it. It can bug the party too, not just one player. The end chest may be bugged where you cannot claim anything from the dungeon EVER until after Traven has been killed. Traven can reset mid-battle back to full health. Traven can become immortal. The respawns can become continuous where they don't stop even after you kill Traven. The exit may not show any "press F to leave" sparkle. ETC ETC etc......
So what's the key here for a legit run? Everything posted above, and "don't run". Walk a dungeon, and use teamwork. Most of all don't kick players if you die just once. Death is but a temporary inconvenience. Switch your own powers around, use a different potion, use a different artifact, and adjust your own tactics to better suit the party you're with.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
At the current situation i would recommend to exploit the dungeon because the endboss fight is not proper executed and it is not like i doesn't like a challenge but 40 minutes for a boss is plain wrong if the Devs say they want Dungeon that i can play within 30 minutes. In the current situation you need a specific class combination or must outgear the dungeon to play it properly and i don't think this should be the normal state of a dungeon.
But this kind is different as I said.
You run a Dungeon that should take 30 minutes, it is written in the queue list and the Dev said in a Livestream they want Dungeons that need around 30 minute completion but ECC would need around 60 Minute.
The way to the Endboss is pretty enjoyable and takes around 20 minutes but the Endboss itself takes 30-40 minutes. In the first 5 minutes the movement pattern and it is quite enjoyable but only for the next 5 minutes, the other 20-30 minutes are boring.
And the whole fight is hardly challenging. I compare games most likely with the game series of Dark Souls. Combats there are challenging because you must figure out the movement pattern of a specific monster or it will kill you, the same with Boss Monsters. They have different movement pattern and change these movement pattern in different phases of battle. You can “gear up” in the game which grants you a better margin of success but is no guarantee to win a fight.
Neverwinter is similar but not identical because it has various technical issues that I already pointed out above, but I will recall them for you:
-For no apparent reason you get Laggs
-Animation and effect of an attack are off so you can’t be sure if an attack hit or not
-Soulforge effects doesn’t activate properly (I had several times a Soulforge effect but it doesn’t trigger properly)
-If said soulforge effect triggers the game doesn’t trigger the reviving effects properly resulting in 0 stamina and around 5 second animation to stand up from the ground instead of 1-2 seconds.
-Monsters gain through multiple bugs a huge damage buff
-Monsters and Boss standing in AOE’s that can easily kill a player making it unable to reach them
So I could dig in a challenging 10 minute fight with different monsters that spawn if the upper bugs don’t occur. I mean I understand that the fight is build as a giant tavern brawl battle but in the current situation it doesn’t work for like 90% of the player.
And your comment of “you don’t need to outgear a dungeon” makes me laugh a bit because you are a player with BIS characters, or not?
And guys really, it is not like I don’t know how to play. I play Neverwinter since open beta, my character is well equipped I know the mechanics and if all the bosses in a dungeon works fine but only the Endboss behave totally different something is off.
And for the people that say “we kill the boss on daily basis” I want a video or it didn’t happen. And I want a legit run and Paladin/GF-KV Bug is not legit.
Doing so means that 99% of the successful runs being exploited, let's assume that a 40% win rate is actually 39% easily doing the exploit. It's actually hiding the problem under the rug.
Same thing with damnation warlocks, there's so many puppet abusers that people who arent aware of the exploit see no problem with the class, they actually think it's pretty good when thye look at the paingiver board, only those running ACT know the puppet is doing 80% of the warlock's DPS....
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Und die kennst du auch. Ausserdem werde ich mit meiner Gilde die Tage auch mal ein eCC Vid machen, ohne Bugusing. GWD genauso.
In english:
And you know them. Me and my guilde wanna do legit eCC/GWD too and we wanna make a vid too. Without any bugusing, nawptactics.
But i had to specify my request: show me normal average player that can deal with it on a daily basis. I mean, come on yoz can enter the dungeon at 2k ilvl but seriously no joe average group can dwal with it.
This reminds me of an eLol run. While fighting Lostmauth... and incidentally kicking the HAMSTER out of him... we get him 1/2 way. Just before he takes off, he drops an AoE right on top of the pentagon we are to stand on. This AoE usually ends after 15 or 20 seconds... but it caused a wipe. We had to choose between dying by the AoE... or dying from the molten lava.
ll caused by poor fight mechanics.
Happens to me a lot in eLoL. I don't run eCC unless I have to any more; too tedious and painful at the end. Decreasing the DPS while increasing the HP of the bosses amounts to the same issues we had before.
Absolutely. I had the pleasure of doing Temple of Spider twice with some of them. It was like a walk in the park. It felt like module 5 again. If you are running in an experienced BIS group everything is easy.
But please keep in mind that most people are far from BIS.
No one at Remember my Name got BIS gear. Thats not true. And in the vid from cragmuire you can see that no one is BIS geared. Its the experience from the grp that makes it easy. Gear without exp and skill is worthless.
A lot of other guilds made eCC/GWD/ToS legit. Not only Remember my name. And a lot player made eCC legit without BIS gear. Me and my guilde too.
Wots the problem? Do you think a better gear makes the boss much easier? Do you think with better gear you dont have to play the boss tactic? Check the boss, learn the tactic, build your grp with this knowledge and try it. Dont give up, when you died a lot of times. Modul 6 is harder than the kindergarden module 5. And to make module 6 much harder was the best decission from PW. No on needs a kindergarden nawp module like the 5th one.
P.S.:
Erm...and ToS ist the easiest T2 dungoen btw.
Why did you say "experienced BIS group" but then you said that most people are just "far from BIS", rather than inexperienced? Because thats the reason most people fail in dungeons - inexperience. Inability to cooperate, learning game mechanics, learning why they failed and what could they do to improve, learning how to effectively use their class abilities, blaming not good enough gear, instead of their playstyle. And that is what endgame is designed for in most mmos, to provide challenge even to players that already have some gear, not to steamroll dungeon once you reach mediocre gear - look at the video again, ignore their items, look how they act in dungeon. Now look how most people you are in dungeons with act - the difference is huge. Sure you probably cant complete this dungeon with 2k ilvl, but these are requirements to enter dungeon and either get carried, or reaching the furthest point you can, not to clear it. However, you dont need more than 2.7k-2.9k either (I have 2 toons geared like that and Im able to complete anything in game, pulling my own weight. I killed Traven legit as well and in harder way, because we had to click barrel a few times) - and thats where paywall begins, you can reach this point in couple of weeks, maybe 2 months - and thats quite short time in f2p games. From now on focus on mastering your class, rather than repeating whatever you do for income to reach these mythics/r12s, or once you get them you will get a very sore experience - you will see that they didnt help at all to prevent you from being 1 shot in dungeon without doing anything.
If you feel thats not what you are looking for in games, then T2s (and any kind of end game in mmos) is just not for you and you can focus on doing something else. Especially that there are no real rewards from T2s once you complete your prot set. And even the prot set isnt that amazing at all.
Yeah, it was painful. But it was considered a bug and is fixed by now - flames disappear when dragon is flying away, even if they were just cast
Wot is an average player? Does iLevel mean anything about exp and skills?
Let me ask you:
Do you think a grp with 2k+ ppl with a good grp play and great knowledge about their skills and wot they have to do at bosses cant clear eCC/GWD/ToS? Seriously?
Spideymt, seriously. Even in module 5 several player of this guild had legendary artifact gear, legendary artifacts, rank 7-9 enchantments. I can't imagine that they stood still and doesn't upgraded in Module 6. I would assume that almost everyone of them has 3K+ ilvl and that means legendary artifact gear, rank 8 enchantments (at least), close to mythic artifacts, BIS rings, BIS Pants&Shirts and a enhancer companion.
They know really well to play. Honestly i was very proud of my TR and my damage i could deal and i couldn't find a TR that could beat me in damage, but then gotengoku came and dealt a huge amount of damage. He out DPS everything. And he is in the Video. I don't say it is his sole DPS killing the Boss but everyone of them is on a total different level than your average player.
And Average means 2,500 ilvl.
4.1k (SW)
3,9k (CW)
4,0k (TR)
2,8k (DC)
2.5k (GF)
— (The unwritten rule)
They really know to play. Thats right. Everyone is playing for the SW. And gotengoku can out dps most of the TRs on the server, thats true. But he cant out dps a good SW/GWF. In this particular run he makes a really good job in eCC, so does alizee.
But check this vid again:
They know excactly wot they have to do. Do you think they cant make this dungeon with 2,5k iLvl? Every one ( you said it too!) can run eCC easy. But when it comes to the end, the endboss is to hard? Thats the reason why so many ppl are exploiting this boss? Sry. I cant believe that.
P.S.: If a GWF out dps me easy i will ask him about his playstyle and his build
This is one of the best answers ever. Totally agree!
The Dungeon itself with the different monsters and Bosses are doable if you run it multiple times you gain the experience to handle the encounter which is totally true but I honestly think that Traven Blackdagger is on a totally different level.
It is not like I didn’t try to kill him legit. I tried it several times with different groups and class combinations and with randoms it wasn’t doable even with well equipped and experienced players. And to left out the whole challenge question: I play Neverwinter for fun!
And a Dungeon on which end is a Boss that has a difficult spike beyond reason is no fun for me. I could dig it if I could get something shiny as loot (like old castle never times) but I only do the dungeon for HAMSTER rings, upgraded T1 Armor Parts which you can easily craft (if you lucky enough to get the drop) and a bag of seals for T2 armor which is not that of a big difference to your upgraded T1 armor and even if you try to get the armor you need around 14-20 days for the whole armor set because you only get one bag of seals per day and only 2 seals per boss in a dungeon.
Seriously, legit people do NOT do eCC for the drops. They do NOT do eCC just for "fun". If you want to grind T2s you do eToS, NOT eCC. People try to beat eCC legit for bragging rights. They do it because they can, or because they're looking for challenging content. Like EVERY. OTHER. MMO. Neverwinter has content that was designed to be difficult just for the sake of giving players something challenging to do. Atm, that's what eCC is.
And recommending the exploit? That's a new low. Way to lose everyone's respect. Have fun playing with your fellow exploiters.
Oh, and way to keep going on and on about item level and how everyone in your group just "knows what they're doing". That certainly tells people a lot about why your group is failing. /sarcasm
Yes, "fair" is definitely letting people who can't seem to even name the key powers people in their group are using - something everyone who plans on clearing content like eCC legit SHOULD know - beat the encounter with absolutely no plan (none have been mentioned) except "keep attacking the boss/mobs".
So you admit it is a question of gearacore in Neverwinter instead of skill?
Now it is a question of skill?
Dude you seem not to know what you want.
Okay enough of joking.:D
Your average player has around 2,500 ilvl. This means he wears T1 owns artifact gear on blue to purple quality, has 4 artifacts at purple quality and rank 7 enchantments. No BIS Rings or Pants and Shirts.
So the next logical step is to get your T2 equipment.
And for your information. At 3,000 ilvl you have the double amount of stat points in your character with legendary artifacts, rank 9 enchantments, upgraded T2 armor, BIS rings, pants and shirt and 4 artifacts beyond legendary rank.
To answer your question. Neverwinter is a game where gear matters. More than skill.
I mixed up the guild names. Sorry. It was no "Remember my name".
Anyway, it helps a lot if you only need to hit a mob twice for it to die than e.g. five times. Experience can only help to a certain point. I'm playing for two years now and I've been around when dungeons were a lot harder than in module five. But they never were like they are now.