To answer your question. Neverwinter is a game where gear matters. More than skill.
Thats true. Everytime when i visit blackdagger he checks my gear and surrenders. I never have to fight syndrith too. She is instant dead after she checked my gear.
Thats the reason why i tried to make BIS gear. No more skill needed .
Honestly:
A OP with 2k iLevel is good enough for eCC. And a rnd grp with only 2k iLvl ppl cant kill blackdagger. But we are talking about the hardest fight atm ingame. I dont need module 5 free loot bosses anymore.
That is true, healer and tank doesn’t really need a high ilvl, they work pretty well with a lower ilvl around 2,500. But DPS based class are different. For a DPS based class an high ilvl means = more damage. That is one reason that player groups for Tiamat in the 19K GS channel. Higher ilvl (or in old times Gearscore) simply means a higher potential DPS output and Tiamat is a prime example for a DPS contest.
In the example of Tiamat it is only little Skill required:
-Play your class properly
-Use Dragon Gems on same color Dragons if an AOE attack
-Keep the clerics save and don’t fight near clerics
That’s it. The very basic of this fight is: Use the damn Dragon Gems on the same colored dragon. The Gem you got from the very same platform. This is a task for babies. Like the child toy with the box and the different shaped blocks. This is basically the skill level you operate in Neverwinter.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,460Arc User
That’s it. The very basic of this fight is: Use the damn Dragon Gems on the same colored dragon. The Gem you got from the very same platform. This is a task for babies. Like the child toy with the box and the different shaped blocks. This is basically the skill level you operate in Neverwinter.
Sry...but you cant compare the tiamat fight with t2 dungeon boss fights. Tiamat is nothing like a hero encounter. You cant judge the whole skill level cuzz tiamat dont need skills at all.
That’s it. The very basic of this fight is: Use the damn Dragon Gems on the same colored dragon. The Gem you got from the very same platform. This is a task for babies. Like the child toy with the box and the different shaped blocks. This is basically the skill level you operate in Neverwinter.
Sry...but you cant compare the tiamat fight with t2 dungeon boss fights. Tiamat is nothing like a hero encounter. You cant judge the whole skill level cuzz tiamat dont need skills at all.
Then tell me the difference.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Srly? I should tell you the difference about an hero encounter with 25 grp raid and an T2 fight like eCC? I respect your opinion that blackdagger seems tough, but tiamat isnt the benchmark to show the "skill level" in NW.
For what? For Boss tactic? For HP? Or do you just wanna lure me to this ( sry....for that) stupid discussion that skill isnt needed if you got BIS gear? Sry, but im really not in the mood for that.
No it was a question which encounter/dungeon/whatever would be a good benchmark for characters/players.
Ok. A good encounter ( my opinion) to learn and train grp play is grey wolf endboss. A lot of movement, nice immun phases and fun to kill.
Dont miss understand me: I also think that blackdagger is really really tough and for me its the hardest boss in NW. But he is doable. Also without BIS gear grps. But this boss need more than just "Kill adds, dps on boss!". You need a good and experienced grp and you need a good working teamspeak ^^. And if you defeat blackdagger the first time legit you and your grp can be proud and you and your grp deserves my deepest GZ.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Normally I doesn’t recommend exploit because it is cheating and bad for the game and the game experience.
But this kind is different as I said.
You run a Dungeon that should take 30 minutes, it is written in the queue list and the Dev said in a Livestream they want Dungeons that need around 30 minute completion but ECC would need around 60 Minute.
The way to the Endboss is pretty enjoyable and takes around 20 minutes but the Endboss itself takes 30-40 minutes. In the first 5 minutes the movement pattern and it is quite enjoyable but only for the next 5 minutes, the other 20-30 minutes are boring.
And the whole fight is hardly challenging. I compare games most likely with the game series of Dark Souls. Combats there are challenging because you must figure out the movement pattern of a specific monster or it will kill you, the same with Boss Monsters. They have different movement pattern and change these movement pattern in different phases of battle. You can “gear up” in the game which grants you a better margin of success but is no guarantee to win a fight.
Neverwinter is similar but not identical because it has various technical issues that I already pointed out above, but I will recall them for you:
-For no apparent reason you get Laggs
-Animation and effect of an attack are off so you can’t be sure if an attack hit or not
-Soulforge effects doesn’t activate properly (I had several times a Soulforge effect but it doesn’t trigger properly)
-If said soulforge effect triggers the game doesn’t trigger the reviving effects properly resulting in 0 stamina and around 5 second animation to stand up from the ground instead of 1-2 seconds.
-Monsters gain through multiple bugs a huge damage buff
-Monsters and Boss standing in AOE’s that can easily kill a player making it unable to reach them
So I could dig in a challenging 10 minute fight with different monsters that spawn if the upper bugs don’t occur. I mean I understand that the fight is build as a giant tavern brawl battle but in the current situation it doesn’t work for like 90% of the player.
And your comment of “you don’t need to outgear a dungeon” makes me laugh a bit because you are a player with BIS characters, or not?
And guys really, it is not like I don’t know how to play. I play Neverwinter since open beta, my character is well equipped I know the mechanics and if all the bosses in a dungeon works fine but only the Endboss behave totally different something is off.
And for the people that say “we kill the boss on daily basis” I want a video or it didn’t happen. And I want a legit run and Paladin/GF-KV Bug is not legit.
guardian figther with enforced threat can pull the adds+ boss to a place with no fire. THAT i am doing only archers dont come but archers have low hp.
I'm pretty sure if cryptic is like every other MMO company they keep track of the success rate in their dungeons to see if the difficulty is acceptable
Doing so means that 99% of the successful runs being exploited, let's assume that a 40% win rate is actually 39% easily doing the exploit. It's actually hiding the problem under the rug.
Same thing with damnation warlocks, there's so many puppet abusers that people who arent aware of the exploit see no problem with the class, they actually think it's pretty good when thye look at the paingiver board, only those running ACT know the puppet is doing 80% of the warlock's DPS....
Your problem is that you claim to be playing for "fun" and yet when one of the hardest encounters in the game has you stumped you start whining and crying and throwing tantrums like a spoiled brat.
Seriously, legit people do NOT do eCC for the drops. They do NOT do eCC just for "fun". If you want to grind T2s you do eToS, NOT eCC. People try to beat eCC legit for bragging rights. They do it because they can, or because they're looking for challenging content. Like EVERY. OTHER. MMO. Neverwinter has content that was designed to be difficult just for the sake of giving players something challenging to do. Atm, that's what eCC is.
And recommending the exploit? That's a new low. Way to lose everyone's respect. Have fun playing with your fellow exploiters.
Oh, and way to keep going on and on about item level and how everyone in your group just "knows what they're doing". That certainly tells people a lot about why your group is failing. /sarcasm
Figures. And eToS, unlike the others, actually gets easier once you know how to do it right.
And yet these people complain about how one of the most difficult bossfights in the game should be "doable". It doesn't help that this particular player goes on and on about iLvL and never actually discusses tactics/power usage.
He doesn't seem to understand that T2 gear only really matters if you decide to be a dedicated T2 runner/PvP player, and that if you want to get rich doing T1s/skirmishes/heralds is actually THE next logical step after growing out of your starter gear. Hell doing dailies can be more lucrative than doing T2s atm (which I'd say is the most legitimate complaint about of the T2s, actually).
What's worse, he apparently thinks that getting T2 gear is like auto-godmode. Because that's basically all you get for doing T2s atm, and this particular players JUST HAS to get them. And look at that, he even claims to only play for fun.
HAH.
If he actually bothered to check the stat difference between T1 and T2 gear, he might learn why people here keep saying that knowledge/skill/communication/builds are much more important in T2 dungeons. He might even figure out for himself what his priorities should be.
That's what a rational player would do and obviously this isn't one.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Your problem is that you claim to be playing for "fun" and yet when one of the hardest encounters in the game has you stumped you start whining and crying and throwing tantrums like a spoiled brat.
Seriously, legit people do NOT do eCC for the drops. They do NOT do eCC just for "fun". If you want to grind T2s you do eToS, NOT eCC. People try to beat eCC legit for bragging rights. They do it because they can, or because they're looking for challenging content. Like EVERY. OTHER. MMO. Neverwinter has content that was designed to be difficult just for the sake of giving players something challenging to do. Atm, that's what eCC is.
And recommending the exploit? That's a new low. Way to lose everyone's respect. Have fun playing with your fellow exploiters.
Oh, and way to keep going on and on about item level and how everyone in your group just "knows what they're doing". That certainly tells people a lot about why your group is failing. /sarcasm
Figures. And eToS, unlike the others, actually gets easier once you know how to do it right.
And yet these people complain about how one of the most difficult bossfights in the game should be "doable". It doesn't help that this particular player goes on and on about iLvL and never actually discusses tactics/power usage.
He doesn't seem to understand that T2 gear only really matters if you decide to be a dedicated T2 runner/PvP player, and that if you want to get rich doing T1s/skirmishes/heralds is actually THE next logical step after growing out of your starter gear. Hell doing dailies can be more lucrative than doing T2s atm (which I'd say is the most legitimate complaint about of the T2s, actually).
What's worse, he apparently thinks that getting T2 gear is like auto-godmode. Because that's basically all you get for doing T2s atm, and this particular players JUST HAS to get them. And look at that, he even claims to only play for fun.
HAH.
If he actually bothered to check the stat difference between T1 and T2 gear, he might learn why people here keep saying that knowledge/skill/communication/builds are much more important in T2 dungeons. He might even figure out for himself what his priorities should be.
That's what a rational player would do and obviously this isn't one.
I never said that T2 Armor would make you a lot more powerful, it is only your assumption. T2 armor or more likely T2.5 grants you only 6K more life and around 1.300 stat points compared to a T1 (i mentioned this in an post 2 month ago). So it is not necessary.
And stats matters in Neverwinter. If we look back to Module 5 times you could simply crush every dungeon with your gearscore at a certain point. I don't claim it is all you need but the "skill level" to now your class or how you behave in a fight or how a boss actually works is in Neverwinter very low. I mean we use a set of 9 powers, a stamina ability and a class ability. It is not that difficult.
And only for your information. To get groups the past 3 month to try to kill Traven legit as a TR player was a pain in the HAMSTER. People doesn't bother anymore and i can't blame them anymore. Traven Blackdagger is like the Draco Lich of castle never. Not difficult.
Another question would be why the well known exploit isn't fixed after 3 month of the introducing of module 6.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
And stats matters in Neverwinter. If we look back to Module 5 times you could simply crush every dungeon with your gearscore at a certain point. I don't claim it is all you need but the "skill level" to now your class or how you behave in a fight or how a boss actually works is in Neverwinter very low. I mean we use a set of 9 powers, a stamina ability and a class ability. It is not that difficult.
If this ist true, why you cant defeat blackdagger legit?
And only for your information. To get groups the past 3 month to try to kill Traven legit as a TR player was a pain in the HAMSTER. People doesn't bother anymore and i can't blame them anymore. Traven Blackdagger is like the Draco Lich of castle never. Not difficult.
Its ofc not difficult, when you only exploit blackdagger. And i dont blame grps too when i see they wanna exploit blackdagger. I just leave the grp. You dont?
Okay, I didn’t kill Valindra alone. I had a Dungeon Run with randoms recently in VT and I already did like 90% of the whole damage in this instance. At Valindra every random died as we where at 50% mark. I had only our Faithfull Cleric left to help me which was constantly grabbed by Valindra. But at the end we could finish it. So yeah my description of killing Valindra Solo was a bit exaggerated.
To the whole topic: I think I will bail out of this “discussion”. I said the reason why the fight is no fun for me and why the difficult level is unfair, several times. And then I must also deal with tyrtallow verbal passive-aggressive bulls…
Overall you all seem something not to understand, this is my opinion to this Endboss. And in my opinion to fight a boss that can only be killed by 5-10% of the PvE Community in a game while said PvE Community exists most likely of casual players which mean only the Core Gamer part of the Community can kill him (said 5-10%) is plain wrong, especially if the whole way to the Boss is a piece of cake and the difficulty spikes only up at the Endboss.
And in my other personal opinion the Boss is not really difficult. Like I said, he is like the Draco Lich. And Draco Lich was by no means difficult; he simply had the same unfair design by simply push the hit points beyond reason to have a long fight and spawn a lot of trash monsters. No clever boss design, no movement pattern, simply overpower the hero group and most likely die because of a server delay/lag. And for me Traven is the same.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Sry...but you cant compare the tiamat fight with t2 dungeon boss fights. Tiamat is nothing like a hero encounter. You cant judge the whole skill level cuzz tiamat dont need skills at all.
That is not true at all. Tiamat requires gear, build AND skill. Other than the clerics it's a plain and simple DPS check. Some instances even with 25 people all on black can't bring it down in 2 minutes. In other instances we make it all the way to white. Using the Gems correctly is all nice, but if 25 people don't have the dps to bring down 1 head it just isn't going to happen.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited July 2015
TO beat that boss need : One controler really good one i dont care can be 2k the only need to be very good. 2 strikers classes sw( fury to be as legit it can ) or hr ( which can give and extra control ) or gwf or tr . IF a pt plan to go with two cw the one must be thaumaturge that one tree is really good damage dealer.
GUardian fighters : Stop the lazy mode. Many times i have seen guardian fighter to aggro and stand rooted on shield to the same spot. THAT is 100% wipe. ONCE you aggro move and be sure mobs and boss they are not hit your back. For traven blackdagger fight enforced trheat and move them away from fire spots.
CLERIC my favorite class. THE perfect class to hit the barrel. 1. When hallowed ground is ready build empowerement. 2.
Hallowed ground. 3.go fast to barrel. 4. Astral shield empower. Rest members go in shield you will have also hallowed ground. Traven do his bloodbath. Sometimes i have seen and 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0. BUT other time i have seen to do a lot damage i suspect is the damage resist bug.
ECC is supposed to be clearable with 2k item level. Word of Dev in the preview forums.
IT is possible. GWF deal tones of damage even without a lostmauth set. CLeric even at 2k has so many dodges +mitigation buffs and excellent heals. gf or paladin the same. A wizard to control or tr to control or hr whatever you want.AND a sw. AND expierenced players not like : i am exp i know the glitch.
AND if the rewards so bad why you bother to glitch anyway ( that goes for glitchers) . LET me think
2 days tier 2 40+40 =80 bosses 4+4+4=12 chest 4+4=8 total 100? every 2 days a shard of negation oooo good plan.
AND gz leveling gear player get his shard every 2 days. YEA i have seen and this leveling gear player in ecc.
Ok do a video of it. I'd ask the devs to have a go but I have pretty good idea of what happens, they ignore or they fail comically for ten minutes and close the stream
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
ecc need bis gear i read somewhere. VIdeo or didnt happen ok. Gf 2.1 hr 2.6 cw 2.6 gwf 2.6 dc 3.1.
TO say all the truth took 5 tries since this pt first time played together.
Comments
Thats true. Everytime when i visit blackdagger he checks my gear and surrenders. I never have to fight syndrith too. She is instant dead after she checked my gear.
Thats the reason why i tried to make BIS gear. No more skill needed
Honestly:
A OP with 2k iLevel is good enough for eCC. And a rnd grp with only 2k iLvl ppl cant kill blackdagger. But we are talking about the hardest fight atm ingame. I dont need module 5 free loot bosses anymore.
In the example of Tiamat it is only little Skill required:
-Play your class properly
-Use Dragon Gems on same color Dragons if an AOE attack
-Keep the clerics save and don’t fight near clerics
That’s it. The very basic of this fight is: Use the damn Dragon Gems on the same colored dragon. The Gem you got from the very same platform. This is a task for babies. Like the child toy with the box and the different shaped blocks. This is basically the skill level you operate in Neverwinter.
Stupid question. What is TS?
Sry...but you cant compare the tiamat fight with t2 dungeon boss fights. Tiamat is nothing like a hero encounter. You cant judge the whole skill level cuzz tiamat dont need skills at all.
Then tell me the difference.
Srly? I should tell you the difference about an hero encounter with 25 grp raid and an T2 fight like eCC? I respect your opinion that blackdagger seems tough, but tiamat isnt the benchmark to show the "skill level" in NW.
For what? For Boss tactic? For HP? Or do you just wanna lure me to this ( sry....for that) stupid discussion that skill isnt needed if you got BIS gear? Sry, but im really not in the mood for that.
Ok. A good encounter ( my opinion) to learn and train grp play is grey wolf endboss. A lot of movement, nice immun phases and fun to kill.
Dont miss understand me: I also think that blackdagger is really really tough and for me its the hardest boss in NW. But he is doable. Also without BIS gear grps. But this boss need more than just "Kill adds, dps on boss!". You need a good and experienced grp and you need a good working teamspeak ^^. And if you defeat blackdagger the first time legit you and your grp can be proud and you and your grp deserves my deepest GZ.
guardian figther with enforced threat can pull the adds+ boss to a place with no fire. THAT i am doing only archers dont come but archers have low hp.
poeple exploting ecc cant even do tos.
And yet these people complain about how one of the most difficult bossfights in the game should be "doable". It doesn't help that this particular player goes on and on about iLvL and never actually discusses tactics/power usage.
He doesn't seem to understand that T2 gear only really matters if you decide to be a dedicated T2 runner/PvP player, and that if you want to get rich doing T1s/skirmishes/heralds is actually THE next logical step after growing out of your starter gear. Hell doing dailies can be more lucrative than doing T2s atm (which I'd say is the most legitimate complaint about of the T2s, actually).
What's worse, he apparently thinks that getting T2 gear is like auto-godmode. Because that's basically all you get for doing T2s atm, and this particular players JUST HAS to get them. And look at that, he even claims to only play for fun.
HAH.
If he actually bothered to check the stat difference between T1 and T2 gear, he might learn why people here keep saying that knowledge/skill/communication/builds are much more important in T2 dungeons. He might even figure out for himself what his priorities should be.
That's what a rational player would do and obviously this isn't one.
I was yesterday in eTOS and we beat Syndrith.
I never said that T2 Armor would make you a lot more powerful, it is only your assumption. T2 armor or more likely T2.5 grants you only 6K more life and around 1.300 stat points compared to a T1 (i mentioned this in an post 2 month ago). So it is not necessary.
And stats matters in Neverwinter. If we look back to Module 5 times you could simply crush every dungeon with your gearscore at a certain point. I don't claim it is all you need but the "skill level" to now your class or how you behave in a fight or how a boss actually works is in Neverwinter very low. I mean we use a set of 9 powers, a stamina ability and a class ability. It is not that difficult.
And only for your information. To get groups the past 3 month to try to kill Traven legit as a TR player was a pain in the HAMSTER. People doesn't bother anymore and i can't blame them anymore. Traven Blackdagger is like the Draco Lich of castle never. Not difficult.
Another question would be why the well known exploit isn't fixed after 3 month of the introducing of module 6.
Congratz
If this ist true, why you cant defeat blackdagger legit?
Its ofc not difficult, when you only exploit blackdagger. And i dont blame grps too when i see they wanna exploit blackdagger. I just leave the grp. You dont?
Vid or didnt happen. Or.....you use tons of scrolls. Make a vid from Val kill. This will be great.
To the whole topic: I think I will bail out of this “discussion”. I said the reason why the fight is no fun for me and why the difficult level is unfair, several times. And then I must also deal with tyrtallow verbal passive-aggressive bulls…
Overall you all seem something not to understand, this is my opinion to this Endboss. And in my opinion to fight a boss that can only be killed by 5-10% of the PvE Community in a game while said PvE Community exists most likely of casual players which mean only the Core Gamer part of the Community can kill him (said 5-10%) is plain wrong, especially if the whole way to the Boss is a piece of cake and the difficulty spikes only up at the Endboss.
And in my other personal opinion the Boss is not really difficult. Like I said, he is like the Draco Lich. And Draco Lich was by no means difficult; he simply had the same unfair design by simply push the hit points beyond reason to have a long fight and spawn a lot of trash monsters. No clever boss design, no movement pattern, simply overpower the hero group and most likely die because of a server delay/lag. And for me Traven is the same.
That is not true at all. Tiamat requires gear, build AND skill. Other than the clerics it's a plain and simple DPS check. Some instances even with 25 people all on black can't bring it down in 2 minutes. In other instances we make it all the way to white. Using the Gems correctly is all nice, but if 25 people don't have the dps to bring down 1 head it just isn't going to happen.
GUardian fighters : Stop the lazy mode. Many times i have seen guardian fighter to aggro and stand rooted on shield to the same spot. THAT is 100% wipe. ONCE you aggro move and be sure mobs and boss they are not hit your back. For traven blackdagger fight enforced trheat and move them away from fire spots.
CLERIC my favorite class. THE perfect class to hit the barrel. 1. When hallowed ground is ready build empowerement. 2.
Hallowed ground. 3.go fast to barrel. 4. Astral shield empower. Rest members go in shield you will have also hallowed ground. Traven do his bloodbath. Sometimes i have seen and 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0. BUT other time i have seen to do a lot damage i suspect is the damage resist bug.
AND if the rewards so bad why you bother to glitch anyway ( that goes for glitchers) . LET me think
2 days tier 2 40+40 =80 bosses 4+4+4=12 chest 4+4=8 total 100? every 2 days a shard of negation oooo good plan.
AND gz leveling gear player get his shard every 2 days. YEA i have seen and this leveling gear player in ecc.
ecc need bis gear i read somewhere. VIdeo or didnt happen ok. Gf 2.1 hr 2.6 cw 2.6 gwf 2.6 dc 3.1.
TO say all the truth took 5 tries since this pt first time played together.