So, in order to counter the immunity from an armor enchant, the same armor enchant that anyone can get you morons propose a nerf to the main tanking abiltiy of the Protection Paladin. You are hopeless.
Obviously not as hopeless as your reading comprehension. Dunno about rayrdan, but did I mention that it needs to be nerfed or anything anywhere? I don't see it. Where do you see it?
My point is more about the not-widley-recognized HAMSTER called T.E.B., and what happens when its overpowered trait combines itself with a class that is already OP, in which case whatever excuse you may want to wave around our noses, the OPal simply becomes a class without exploitable weakness at all.
Stay in this game and feast on the cesspool you and the devs created with your endless complaining and their incompetent programming till you choke
How about you try a few important matches, without any DCs or OPals, and then meet a team with the DCOP setup, and return to us? Maybe take a curfew from the paladin, and perhaps dust off some other alt character you might have shelved some time ago.
Yes, I know you have alts. I know you may play them regularly. But there's a difference when you're engrossed with a certain class as a main, and when you're not. Anyone can be biased, same with you, same with me, same with everyone else. Sometimes it takes a different perspective with a wider field of vision to understand what's HAMSTER and what's not.
...
Because, I can guarantee you that as long as gear/spec/skill factor is roughly comparable, currently there is nothing which defeats a DCOP team without having the same of your own. There's no amount of strategy, tactic, thinking, super-duper handspeed, APM, skill-levelm what-ever-is-involved-with-pvp, that will be able to defeat the DCOP team. As a matter of fact, not only will you lose, but you will lose with this feeling of helplessness that there's nothing happening in the game anymore. You hit but there's no damage. You CC but there's no effect. You hurt him but he's just back to full health. There's not even any active skill factor involved. It's just shields up, wait out encounter recharge, burp up with an AoE stun, use power, shield up again, rinse and repeat.
Nobody is friggin' complaining about it unkillable in 1v1. But when multiple people of certain skill/gear level are on it, any class should be expected to be ultimately killed within a reasonable amount of time. That's why people friggin' despise the MI Sabo TRs, that's why some TR players like me are demanding more nerfs to MI/Sabos, and that's the same general rule of thumb that should be applied to both OPals and DCs.
TL;DR, bringing down a BiS level OPal involves more players than can be possibly be joined in Domination. Therefore, by definition it is gamebreaking. If you don't want nerf this tank, devs, then friggin' give the rest of the classes our tankbuster/destroyer powers, plz.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So, in order to counter the immunity from an armor enchant, the same armor enchant that anyone can get you morons propose a nerf to the main tanking abiltiy of the Protection Paladin. You are hopeless.
Obviously not as hopeless as your reading comprehension. Dunno about rayrdan, but did I mention that it needs to be nerfed or anything anywhere? I don't see it. Where do you see it?
My point is more about the not-widley-recognized HAMSTER called T.E.B., and what happens when its overpowered trait combines itself with a class that is already OP, in which case whatever excuse you may want to wave around our noses, the OPal simply becomes a class without exploitable weakness at all.
Stay in this game and feast on the cesspool you and the devs created with your endless complaining and their incompetent programming till you choke
How about you try a few important matches, without any DCs or OPals, and then meet a team with the DCOP setup, and return to us? Maybe take a curfew from the paladin, and perhaps dust off some other alt character you might have shelved some time ago.
Yes, I know you have alts. I know you may play them regularly. But there's a difference when you're engrossed with a certain class as a main, and when you're not. Anyone can be biased, same with you, same with me, same with everyone else. Sometimes it takes a different perspective with a wider field of vision to understand what's HAMSTER and what's not.
...
Because, I can guarantee you that as long as gear/spec/skill factor is roughly comparable, currently there is nothing which defeats a DCOP team without having the same of your own. There's no amount of strategy, tactic, thinking, super-duper handspeed, APM, skill-levelm what-ever-is-involved-with-pvp, that will be able to defeat the DCOP team. As a matter of fact, not only will you lose, but you will lose with this feeling of helplessness that there's nothing happening in the game anymore. You hit but there's no damage. You CC but there's no effect. You hurt him but he's just back to full health. There's not even any active skill factor involved. It's just shields up, wait out encounter recharge, burp up with an AoE stun, use power, shield up again, rinse and repeat.
Nobody is friggin' complaining about it unkillable in 1v1. But when multiple people of certain skill/gear level are on it, any class should be expected to be ultimately killed within a reasonable amount of time. That's why people friggin' despise the MI Sabo TRs, that's why some TR players like me are demanding more nerfs to MI/Sabos, and that's the same general rule of thumb that should be applied to both OPals and DCs.
TL;DR, bringing down a BiS level OPal involves more players than can be possibly be joined in Domination. Therefore, by definition it is gamebreaking. If you don't want nerf this tank, devs, then friggin' give the rest of the classes our tankbuster/destroyer powers, plz.
Not my favorite guy by any means but cant deny his right about this.
Pvp is about killing and be killed atm Pal/Dc teams makes the very idea of pvp a joke and utterly boring.
Mostly when i play Pal in pvp i stand with another pal on a node and talk about weather while the rest of the teams fight on the other nodes cant say it promote the matches much.....
Pvp is about killing and be killed atm Pal/Dc teams makes the very idea of pvp a joke and utterly boring.
Mostly when i play Pal in pvp i stand with another pal on a node and talk about weather while the rest of the teams fight on the other nodes cant say it promote the matches much.....
So the solution is to nerf of the paladin, giving to the TR's the opportunity to kill the pally without even bother to activate their bugged wheel of elements artifact? No pally, no problem? You're joke, man.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
Pvp is about killing and be killed atm Pal/Dc teams makes the very idea of pvp a joke and utterly boring.
Mostly when i play Pal in pvp i stand with another pal on a node and talk about weather while the rest of the teams fight on the other nodes cant say it promote the matches much.....
So the solution is to nerf of the paladin, giving to the TR's the opportunity to kill the pally without even bother to activate their bugged wheel of elements artifact? No pally, no problem? You're joke, man.
Plz quote me where I say nerf pals.
Maby you should get some reading ability before you write stuff kiddo.
Pals should be buffed alot in dps, temp hp should require a targets to build up, dailys in general need a idc when they are effecting hole team to much like some cw pal dc tr but minors like hrs or those that doesent have great impact can be left alone.
Atm with right build you can more or less spam daily to keep party immune(those in range that is) with 100% uptime as Pal if you think thats a good thing in pvp you are the joke tbh.
Dc/Pal comp teams sure as hell doesent make pvp more fun atm no matter what you say.....
Right now my experience in pvp is - rogue, gwf or a mage comes at the node, activates wheel of elements and kills me in few seconds. Running around delays the inevitable, but pallys are not famous with their speed, if you got what I mean. When I see the activation animation, I know that I'm death. Everybody has it, everybody uses it. At least divine protection gives my team mates a chance to nuke the other team. Where are those immortal paladins, I doesn't seen one able to resist this gamebreaking bug.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
Right now my experience in pvp is - rogue, gwf or a mage comes at the node, activates wheel of elements and kills me in few seconds. Running around delays the inevitable, but pallys are not famous with their speed, if you got what I mean. When I see the activation animation, I know that I'm death. Everybody has it, everybody uses it. At least divine protection gives my team mates a chance to nuke the other team. Where are those immortal paladins, I doesn't seen one able to resist this gamebreaking bug.
give me a tell ingame i show you if you want.
Since I got full buring set my death in my last 15 matches is 0. Havent faced the absolute bis pvp guild comps yet but I did have a match where 2 cw 3k each 3k gwf and tr couldent kill me.
Wheel is np to handle unless you are cced to death imho...
Wheel is np to handle unless you are cced to death imho...
...which brings us to a full circle. Guess what happens when the Opals who realize they already reach the DR cap even without Negation, decides to switch to TEB for extra CC protection.
My CW is a fully CC invested build that makes trapper HR permastunning look like a joke, specifically crafted in preparation of the anticipated DC-OP threat the moment they appeared in preview, which I've now playtested against BiS level premade DCs and OPs in Domination, and confirmed it works. No, even with this I cannot kill them alone, but by sacrificing the traditional strengths, and totally devoting myself to the cause, I've made myself the weapon that can neuter any DC or OP within my power's reach. A lot of sacrifices I made for this, and I still can't kill them alone, but that's OK. The OPs and DCs have... or rather "had" weaknesses. They're susceptible to CCs, so I lock them down, and my team's DPS can bring it down.
Now, if we factor in TEB?
Then even that small gap, small weakness of those two classes are gone. They become inhuman levels of perfection. My CC holds people for roughly around 4~5 seconds even in PvP... and this is turned into 1.5 second or less. Compared to level of bull HAMSTER like this, any fights we had concerning trapper HRs are a joke. At least the trappers themselves have only one truly powerful trait, and then considerable amount of weaknesses others may try to exploit.
DCOPs? No weaknesses whatsoever. Nothing breaches their defenses, and like I said, and repeat, I'm totally OK if they're unkillable 1v1. But in Domination, its only 5 v 5. Among them the Paladin takes one node and just sits there, and that's simply one node you've already lost from the beginning of the match. When some team queues in with DC or OP or even BOTH, then even before the matches you're destined to fight with both hands behind your back, unless you do the exact same HAMSTER.
How in the world can any person justify this as balance? Do the paladin players truly not see what they're doing? The PvP scene is just becoming more and more peculiar.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Against a premade only one CW is enough to nuke you to death in 30 sec. Maybe against noobs and undergeared ppl you're feeling in god mode, but those kind of players are rarity those days or you're just lucky to avoid those premades and you're capitalising on the low geared guys. But I'm not lucky those days and every time I enter pvp domination, I'm against ppl with full elemental burning, negation enchants and legendary wheel of elements. I have full elemental burning and rank 8 enchants, but I die big time, from TR's and CW's mostly. Maybe if my armor actually works, it will be better, but when the wheel animation is on I'm death, because my armor is like paper. Shocking execution for 70-80k, smoke bomb, few trowing daggers and the game is over.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
wheel got fixed, lets go ahead now.
paladins should not be able to build ap during divine protector daily just to start
Shocking execution for 70-80k, smoke bomb, few trowing daggers and the game is over.
and no, that trickster has succeded to take all your temporary hp maybe.
you r still full hp able to do that again in 15 seconds
That's why it's called "stealth", you can't actually see the rogue when he approach you. Against well geared rogue (not a noob) if I activate my temporal HP, its 1-2 min of battle. Hit - recover - repeat until I'm death. All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink. Well, this isn't enough, it's actually "pvp domination", not a "death match".
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
i will say what i said many time, you are a Tr, you wanna kill a paladin in 1 vs 1, then go for whisper knife, there is an easy combo to do it, but you wil have to loose your precious ITC
Don't tell me that whisper knife on pvp are not viable, that's a lie, and you know it or you never tried it.
Stop complaining about duo ( dc + op ) because if they are on a node together, it means that there is only 3 on the 2 other, if you or your teammate arent able to troll a dc + op on a single node ( especially a tr ) then change game
WHy do you absolutly want to be able to kill that kind of duo, a tank + an heal cant be killed, it's just as it has to be,
It's like saying that it's a nonsense that a dc can't kill a gf, of course he can't, it's as it has to be.
You wanna kill any paladin ( when i say any, it means all the plaladin )then send a cw + Hr ( or 2 cw ), if they are not so pugs, there is no paladin who will survive
Remember, a paladin get AP when he heals ( not much )/ deals damage, if you stun him, he can't hit you, he can't get AP, he can't make any shield, he's dead.
Remember that there is only 3 way to have temp Hp for paladin :
Heroism ( daily ) can be easily stoped because animation is very long to cast it
Cleansing touch : it gives 300% Temp hp compared to the heals ( and CC breaker, not ITC)
Templar's wrath : it gives 300% Temp Hp compared to the damaged that he did ( means if he's stun he can't use that skill )
So there is 2 skill that can be cancelled, the last one can't be cancelled, but a paladin cant add more Temp Hp to Temp Hp with the same skill ( and there is 10 sec cooldown )
ANd this is only for Oath of protection, devotion are more than easier
You are still talking about that stupid daily divine protector, so i will explain (again ) to ALL of you that it doesnt work from node to node, so it means that IF the entire oppoment team are under the spell, they are NOT on the other nodes, so go to another nodes ( all of you ) to split them
But if you keep trying to hit them like an idiot, then, don't come here to complain about how idiot you are.
There is nobody especially targeted, but again :
1 : make a paladin to really know how it works
2 : if you already have one, then, train more with him, there are lot of things that you didnt understood.
Last time i checked T. E. B. doesnt help against knockbacks and that's your main counter against all OP's. You dont have to kill enemy players in order to win, but you may need to adapt and change your powers to counter specific setups. Paladin knockback doesnt work in 1vs1 and since the nerf to DJ, he's not going to kill anyone who have similar gear.
it would be nice if you explain better this whisper knife deadly rotation.
as far as i know tr class got nerfed many times since the rework.
while survivability still remain high, damage burst and control is getting weaker and weaker for the exception of shocking execution (edit: and smoke bomb) which is not available as whisper knife.
i will say what i said many time, you are a Tr, you wanna kill a paladin in 1 vs 1, then go for whisper knife, there is an easy combo to do it, but you wil have to loose your precious ITC
Don't tell me that whisper knife on pvp are not viable, that's a lie, and you know it or you never tried it.
Stop complaining about duo ( dc + op ) because if they are on a node together, it means that there is only 3 on the 2 other, if you or your teammate arent able to troll a dc + op on a single node ( especially a tr ) then change game
WHy do you absolutly want to be able to kill that kind of duo, a tank + an heal cant be killed, it's just as it has to be,
It's like saying that it's a nonsense that a dc can't kill a gf, of course he can't, it's as it has to be.
You wanna kill any paladin ( when i say any, it means all the plaladin )then send a cw + Hr ( or 2 cw ), if they are not so pugs, there is no paladin who will survive
Remember, a paladin get AP when he heals ( not much )/ deals damage, if you stun him, he can't hit you, he can't get AP, he can't make any shield, he's dead.
Remember that there is only 3 way to have temp Hp for paladin :
Heroism ( daily ) can be easily stoped because animation is very long to cast it
Cleansing touch : it gives 300% Temp hp compared to the heals ( and CC breaker, not ITC)
Templar's wrath : it gives 300% Temp Hp compared to the damaged that he did ( means if he's stun he can't use that skill )
So there is 2 skill that can be cancelled, the last one can't be cancelled, but a paladin cant add more Temp Hp to Temp Hp with the same skill ( and there is 10 sec cooldown )
ANd this is only for Oath of protection, devotion are more than easier
You are still talking about that stupid daily divine protector, so i will explain (again ) to ALL of you that it doesnt work from node to node, so it means that IF the entire oppoment team are under the spell, they are NOT on the other nodes, so go to another nodes ( all of you ) to split them
But if you keep trying to hit them like an idiot, then, don't come here to complain about how idiot you are.
There is nobody especially targeted, but again :
1 : make a paladin to really know how it works
2 : if you already have one, then, train more with him, there are lot of things that you didnt understood.
There is nothing more to say.
Ok lets see what you talk about pugs 99% of all domination matches or premade 1% of all matches..
I say your 1 %right and 99% wrong.
The situation can NOT be dictated by what is going on in 1% of all pvp played by some elitist that have access to absolute bis gear use macros and abuse every single broken game mechanics/item in the game.
Kweassa and my opinions are usually divided by a gap wider then the distance of Marty Feldman´s eye´s but when he is right he is right, like 99% right where you are 1 % right.
My Pal is only 3k and I just dont die 1-1 I hardly think I die 2-1 unless I face absolute top geared elite players and in pugs with lower then 3k gs I dont die 3/4-1 either.
Now Dc can be more or less as hard to kill as Pal but they have a wider gap of being cced and nuked down and not even Dc can be immune to damage the way Pals can (or make party immune for that matter).
What you say is not wrong but if you step down from your isolated platform where 1 % of the population resides and walk into the real world where the rest of the 99% live your dead wrong.....
(ps i do not advocate for a nerf to Pals. I do think an idc on dailys in general would solve alot of issues including some with Pals but any form of corrections to Pals ability to survive MUST be met by an increase in overall damage).
Last time i checked T. E. B. doesnt help against knockbacks and that's your main counter against all OP's. You dont have to kill enemy players in order to win, but you may need to adapt and change your powers to counter specific setups. Paladin knockback doesnt work in 1vs1 and since the nerf to DJ, he's not going to kill anyone who have similar gear.
You really think that's an excuse. Wow.
A systematic futz-up for a poor, facepalm class design, that's got the entire PvP community riled up and angered as they were with mod2 GWFs... and the "solution" is to just accept that the OPal is a mini-dungeon boss and try juggle it around off the node?
You think people don't know that? People are questioning it not because there's no way to pry a win from a DCOP team. People are questioning it becauses its making the PvP experience poor, disgusting, just-not-fun for everyone.
You're probably gonna say that the definition of "fun" is different for all people, and all them pallys and DCs think the game's more fun than ever. So, let's experiment a bit. Why don't we make a 5-man premade matchup with [3 pally + 2dc] team fighting against a same [3 pally + 2dc team]. And then, let's see how much "fun" you have with your dcs trying to knock off pallys off nodes to win, while all the pallys just set up at a node, shields up, and then slowly circle the node around. No, not a friendly, chatty event, but rather a match where both sides are really trying to win.
You think you're gonna have fun doing that? Can you say you will have fun, with a clear conscience? Because, if you can't say that's gonna be fun, then that feeling x 100 is what everyone else is feeling right now, because of how this one class is designed so poorly.
The indestructible tank-DCs were bad in their prime in mod5. But this? Pallys take the cake.
As a matter of fact I'd even just suggest everyone to dump a Domination match which has the enemies having more than two of DCs + Paladins, because the 30 minute penalty you will be getting, is actually less penalizing than to have to endure the worthless shi*storm of a frustrating, dumb match you will be suffering for an hour when you have to face a team with 3/5ths of its members being DCs or Paladins.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You're probably gonna say that the definition of "fun" is different for all people, and all them pallys and DCs think the game's more fun than ever.
No, it was fun before the Divine Justice nerf. I one-shooted everything. Now the red team just overruns me. They're abusing armor penetration with bugged wheel and killing me in the end. Last game I was surrounded by a HR and two GF. They activated their wheels and killed me in 30 sec. HR perma stunned me, while the GF's was pounding me around. I guest they had their fun.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
The solution - just delete paladins and clerics or forbid them to enter pvp, so kweassa will have his fun. Or gimp them and make them unplayable. Only CW's and TR's with their bugged wheels and lol sets, killing each other should be allowed. Maybe HR or SW for extra glory.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
The solution - just delete paladins and clerics or forbid them to enter pvp, so kweassa will have his fun. Or gimp them and make them unplayable. Only CW's and TR's with their bugged wheels and lol sets, killing each other should be allowed. Maybe HR or SW for extra glory.
Or better yet, they can simply tone it down so everyone can enjoy PvP to a better result.
As an alternative, any paladin that wants to PvP can simply go to Trade of Blades, take your shields up in front of the combat dummy, and then start circling around for an hour. Because, like, there's no difference in the experience for you people. You linger around a single spot, shields up, start circling around, you do no damage, you receive no damage. Yep. Sounds like paladin-involved PvP to me. That's gonna make everyone happy. The paladins can enjoy their pvp in the Trade of Blades, and so can the rest of us in a pvp match that actually features something called 'combat'.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Personally I would prefer to buff OP/DC's offensive power and lower their defensive power. This way they have a chance to kill something, and would take more skills to stay alive.
"All ppl complaining about paladins being immortals are undergeared players, who are thinking like young hussar officers - they want to slice the enemy with few hits and then to go for a drink."
Right now my experience in pvp is - rogue, gwf or a mage comes at the node, activates wheel of elements and kills me in few seconds. Running around delays the inevitable, but pallys are not famous with their speed, if you got what I mean. When I see the activation animation, I know that I'm death. Everybody has it, everybody uses it. At least divine protection gives my team mates a chance to nuke the other team. Where are those immortal paladins, I doesn't seen one able to resist this gamebreaking bug.
In reference to bold sentence above^ You can probably find them on youtube. Even before fire fix, it isn't as simple as pop wheel, kill Pali. Just because you can't be near immortal or haven't seen one who is does not mean they do not exist.
Also, they recently applied a ninja nerf to the Wheel, so it no longer does piercing damage and you can't pick up multiple buffs. While the recent buff to Elven Battle made geared DCs and OPs even more resistant to cc, and thus impossible to nail down for any significant stretch of time.
Geez... you noticed that too, huh, mac. I was actually about to start a thread demanding nerfs to T.Elven Battle yesterday, except the Paladin discussions caught my eye first so got engaged in it.
Yeah, you have that right. Like I've mentioned before I've been trying to develop a totally legit solution that requires actual effort and self-sacrifice to "take one for the team", so to speak, by specifically targeting the only known weakness of the paladins and DCs.. except now, there is none, when the start wearing T.Elven.
For ANY class that wears it, the enchantment basically destroys and removes CCs as a factor in game, and simply turns everything into a straight "trade of punches", or, "who has got bigger guns / tougher skin" sort of brainless fighting.
When there's a class that remains unkillable so long as it keeps healing/buffing itself, the only way to kill it with a legit fighting tactic (instead of rely on bugs) is to stop that healing/buffing -- i.e. CCs. Now that they move on to TEB, there's nothing to stop them. It's literally impossible.
......
(ps/edit)
What burns me the most, is that I've put a lot into this "solution". Built a new char totally from scratch, took the unpopular char stat with a purpose in mind, geared it up, made sacrifices, went through the trouble of other players on my team not understanding what it means and simply dissing me just because I can't put-out Spellstorm CW level dps.. and finally arrived at a point where it looked like a solution to all those paladins and DCs...
...and then, not even changing the build, or not even respeccing or anything, with the attachment of just one armour enchantment, the entire solution goes dead and the DCs and paladins simply become indestructible again. Just put on ONE piece of enchantment, and there's no stopping what they do on the battlefield.
It's ludicrous. Many people still think negation is overpowered... but IMO, they haven't really seen what T.Elven Battle can do.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
Obviously not as hopeless as your reading comprehension. Dunno about rayrdan, but did I mention that it needs to be nerfed or anything anywhere? I don't see it. Where do you see it?
My point is more about the not-widley-recognized HAMSTER called T.E.B., and what happens when its overpowered trait combines itself with a class that is already OP, in which case whatever excuse you may want to wave around our noses, the OPal simply becomes a class without exploitable weakness at all.
How about you try a few important matches, without any DCs or OPals, and then meet a team with the DCOP setup, and return to us? Maybe take a curfew from the paladin, and perhaps dust off some other alt character you might have shelved some time ago.
Yes, I know you have alts. I know you may play them regularly. But there's a difference when you're engrossed with a certain class as a main, and when you're not. Anyone can be biased, same with you, same with me, same with everyone else. Sometimes it takes a different perspective with a wider field of vision to understand what's HAMSTER and what's not.
...
Because, I can guarantee you that as long as gear/spec/skill factor is roughly comparable, currently there is nothing which defeats a DCOP team without having the same of your own. There's no amount of strategy, tactic, thinking, super-duper handspeed, APM, skill-levelm what-ever-is-involved-with-pvp, that will be able to defeat the DCOP team. As a matter of fact, not only will you lose, but you will lose with this feeling of helplessness that there's nothing happening in the game anymore. You hit but there's no damage. You CC but there's no effect. You hurt him but he's just back to full health. There's not even any active skill factor involved. It's just shields up, wait out encounter recharge, burp up with an AoE stun, use power, shield up again, rinse and repeat.
Nobody is friggin' complaining about it unkillable in 1v1. But when multiple people of certain skill/gear level are on it, any class should be expected to be ultimately killed within a reasonable amount of time. That's why people friggin' despise the MI Sabo TRs, that's why some TR players like me are demanding more nerfs to MI/Sabos, and that's the same general rule of thumb that should be applied to both OPals and DCs.
TL;DR, bringing down a BiS level OPal involves more players than can be possibly be joined in Domination. Therefore, by definition it is gamebreaking. If you don't want nerf this tank, devs, then friggin' give the rest of the classes our tankbuster/destroyer powers, plz.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Not my favorite guy by any means but cant deny his right about this.
Pvp is about killing and be killed atm Pal/Dc teams makes the very idea of pvp a joke and utterly boring.
Mostly when i play Pal in pvp i stand with another pal on a node and talk about weather while the rest of the teams fight on the other nodes cant say it promote the matches much.....
Plz quote me where I say nerf pals.
Maby you should get some reading ability before you write stuff kiddo.
Pals should be buffed alot in dps, temp hp should require a targets to build up, dailys in general need a idc when they are effecting hole team to much like some cw pal dc tr but minors like hrs or those that doesent have great impact can be left alone.
Atm with right build you can more or less spam daily to keep party immune(those in range that is) with 100% uptime as Pal if you think thats a good thing in pvp you are the joke tbh.
Dc/Pal comp teams sure as hell doesent make pvp more fun atm no matter what you say.....
give me a tell ingame i show you if you want.
Since I got full buring set my death in my last 15 matches is 0. Havent faced the absolute bis pvp guild comps yet but I did have a match where 2 cw 3k each 3k gwf and tr couldent kill me.
Wheel is np to handle unless you are cced to death imho...
...which brings us to a full circle. Guess what happens when the Opals who realize they already reach the DR cap even without Negation, decides to switch to TEB for extra CC protection.
My CW is a fully CC invested build that makes trapper HR permastunning look like a joke, specifically crafted in preparation of the anticipated DC-OP threat the moment they appeared in preview, which I've now playtested against BiS level premade DCs and OPs in Domination, and confirmed it works. No, even with this I cannot kill them alone, but by sacrificing the traditional strengths, and totally devoting myself to the cause, I've made myself the weapon that can neuter any DC or OP within my power's reach. A lot of sacrifices I made for this, and I still can't kill them alone, but that's OK. The OPs and DCs have... or rather "had" weaknesses. They're susceptible to CCs, so I lock them down, and my team's DPS can bring it down.
Now, if we factor in TEB?
Then even that small gap, small weakness of those two classes are gone. They become inhuman levels of perfection. My CC holds people for roughly around 4~5 seconds even in PvP... and this is turned into 1.5 second or less. Compared to level of bull HAMSTER like this, any fights we had concerning trapper HRs are a joke. At least the trappers themselves have only one truly powerful trait, and then considerable amount of weaknesses others may try to exploit.
DCOPs? No weaknesses whatsoever. Nothing breaches their defenses, and like I said, and repeat, I'm totally OK if they're unkillable 1v1. But in Domination, its only 5 v 5. Among them the Paladin takes one node and just sits there, and that's simply one node you've already lost from the beginning of the match. When some team queues in with DC or OP or even BOTH, then even before the matches you're destined to fight with both hands behind your back, unless you do the exact same HAMSTER.
How in the world can any person justify this as balance? Do the paladin players truly not see what they're doing? The PvP scene is just becoming more and more peculiar.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
paladins should not be able to build ap during divine protector daily just to start
and no, that trickster has succeded to take all your temporary hp maybe.
you r still full hp able to do that again in 15 seconds
Don't tell me that whisper knife on pvp are not viable, that's a lie, and you know it or you never tried it.
Stop complaining about duo ( dc + op ) because if they are on a node together, it means that there is only 3 on the 2 other, if you or your teammate arent able to troll a dc + op on a single node ( especially a tr ) then change game
WHy do you absolutly want to be able to kill that kind of duo, a tank + an heal cant be killed, it's just as it has to be,
It's like saying that it's a nonsense that a dc can't kill a gf, of course he can't, it's as it has to be.
You wanna kill any paladin ( when i say any, it means all the plaladin )then send a cw + Hr ( or 2 cw ), if they are not so pugs, there is no paladin who will survive
Remember, a paladin get AP when he heals ( not much )/ deals damage, if you stun him, he can't hit you, he can't get AP, he can't make any shield, he's dead.
Remember that there is only 3 way to have temp Hp for paladin :
Heroism ( daily ) can be easily stoped because animation is very long to cast it
Cleansing touch : it gives 300% Temp hp compared to the heals ( and CC breaker, not ITC)
Templar's wrath : it gives 300% Temp Hp compared to the damaged that he did ( means if he's stun he can't use that skill )
So there is 2 skill that can be cancelled, the last one can't be cancelled, but a paladin cant add more Temp Hp to Temp Hp with the same skill ( and there is 10 sec cooldown )
ANd this is only for Oath of protection, devotion are more than easier
You are still talking about that stupid daily divine protector, so i will explain (again ) to ALL of you that it doesnt work from node to node, so it means that IF the entire oppoment team are under the spell, they are NOT on the other nodes, so go to another nodes ( all of you ) to split them
But if you keep trying to hit them like an idiot, then, don't come here to complain about how idiot you are.
There is nobody especially targeted, but again :
1 : make a paladin to really know how it works
2 : if you already have one, then, train more with him, there are lot of things that you didnt understood.
There is nothing more to say.
Steel and Magic
it would be nice if you explain better this whisper knife deadly rotation.
as far as i know tr class got nerfed many times since the rework.
while survivability still remain high, damage burst and control is getting weaker and weaker for the exception of shocking execution (edit: and smoke bomb) which is not available as whisper knife.
I will give you this : it's about.. hateful knives.. smoke bomb, dazing strike and..and..
no more, stay infiltrator
Ok lets see what you talk about pugs 99% of all domination matches or premade 1% of all matches..
I say your 1 %right and 99% wrong.
The situation can NOT be dictated by what is going on in 1% of all pvp played by some elitist that have access to absolute bis gear use macros and abuse every single broken game mechanics/item in the game.
Kweassa and my opinions are usually divided by a gap wider then the distance of Marty Feldman´s eye´s but when he is right he is right, like 99% right where you are 1 % right.
My Pal is only 3k and I just dont die 1-1 I hardly think I die 2-1 unless I face absolute top geared elite players and in pugs with lower then 3k gs I dont die 3/4-1 either.
Now Dc can be more or less as hard to kill as Pal but they have a wider gap of being cced and nuked down and not even Dc can be immune to damage the way Pals can (or make party immune for that matter).
What you say is not wrong but if you step down from your isolated platform where 1 % of the population resides and walk into the real world where the rest of the 99% live your dead wrong.....
(ps i do not advocate for a nerf to Pals. I do think an idc on dailys in general would solve alot of issues including some with Pals but any form of corrections to Pals ability to survive MUST be met by an increase in overall damage).
You really think that's an excuse. Wow.
A systematic futz-up for a poor, facepalm class design, that's got the entire PvP community riled up and angered as they were with mod2 GWFs... and the "solution" is to just accept that the OPal is a mini-dungeon boss and try juggle it around off the node?
You think people don't know that? People are questioning it not because there's no way to pry a win from a DCOP team. People are questioning it becauses its making the PvP experience poor, disgusting, just-not-fun for everyone.
You're probably gonna say that the definition of "fun" is different for all people, and all them pallys and DCs think the game's more fun than ever. So, let's experiment a bit. Why don't we make a 5-man premade matchup with [3 pally + 2dc] team fighting against a same [3 pally + 2dc team]. And then, let's see how much "fun" you have with your dcs trying to knock off pallys off nodes to win, while all the pallys just set up at a node, shields up, and then slowly circle the node around. No, not a friendly, chatty event, but rather a match where both sides are really trying to win.
You think you're gonna have fun doing that? Can you say you will have fun, with a clear conscience? Because, if you can't say that's gonna be fun, then that feeling x 100 is what everyone else is feeling right now, because of how this one class is designed so poorly.
The indestructible tank-DCs were bad in their prime in mod5. But this? Pallys take the cake.
As a matter of fact I'd even just suggest everyone to dump a Domination match which has the enemies having more than two of DCs + Paladins, because the 30 minute penalty you will be getting, is actually less penalizing than to have to endure the worthless shi*storm of a frustrating, dumb match you will be suffering for an hour when you have to face a team with 3/5ths of its members being DCs or Paladins.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Or better yet, they can simply tone it down so everyone can enjoy PvP to a better result.
As an alternative, any paladin that wants to PvP can simply go to Trade of Blades, take your shields up in front of the combat dummy, and then start circling around for an hour. Because, like, there's no difference in the experience for you people. You linger around a single spot, shields up, start circling around, you do no damage, you receive no damage. Yep. Sounds like paladin-involved PvP to me. That's gonna make everyone happy. The paladins can enjoy their pvp in the Trade of Blades, and so can the rest of us in a pvp match that actually features something called 'combat'.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=S_pL4VoK2Bk
Cover up one broken op fecal matter, with another broken op fecal matter, and claim it's ok so don't balance anything.
That ain't no solution. That's a cover-up.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Fire wheel is no longer piercing, hence your point is now invalid. Learn to test instead of watching people's videos and assuming things.
Even when fire wheel was bugged, it was still near impossible to kill a paladin that knows what to do.
In reference to bold sentence above^ You can probably find them on youtube. Even before fire fix, it isn't as simple as pop wheel, kill Pali. Just because you can't be near immortal or haven't seen one who is does not mean they do not exist.
Geez... you noticed that too, huh, mac. I was actually about to start a thread demanding nerfs to T.Elven Battle yesterday, except the Paladin discussions caught my eye first so got engaged in it.
Yeah, you have that right. Like I've mentioned before I've been trying to develop a totally legit solution that requires actual effort and self-sacrifice to "take one for the team", so to speak, by specifically targeting the only known weakness of the paladins and DCs.. except now, there is none, when the start wearing T.Elven.
For ANY class that wears it, the enchantment basically destroys and removes CCs as a factor in game, and simply turns everything into a straight "trade of punches", or, "who has got bigger guns / tougher skin" sort of brainless fighting.
When there's a class that remains unkillable so long as it keeps healing/buffing itself, the only way to kill it with a legit fighting tactic (instead of rely on bugs) is to stop that healing/buffing -- i.e. CCs. Now that they move on to TEB, there's nothing to stop them. It's literally impossible.
......
(ps/edit)
What burns me the most, is that I've put a lot into this "solution". Built a new char totally from scratch, took the unpopular char stat with a purpose in mind, geared it up, made sacrifices, went through the trouble of other players on my team not understanding what it means and simply dissing me just because I can't put-out Spellstorm CW level dps.. and finally arrived at a point where it looked like a solution to all those paladins and DCs...
...and then, not even changing the build, or not even respeccing or anything, with the attachment of just one armour enchantment, the entire solution goes dead and the DCs and paladins simply become indestructible again. Just put on ONE piece of enchantment, and there's no stopping what they do on the battlefield.
It's ludicrous. Many people still think negation is overpowered... but IMO, they haven't really seen what T.Elven Battle can do.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'