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Justice Gear tokens and drop rates
thebizi
Posts: 9 Arc User
I think drop rates are a bit too low for the justice gear tokens
I don't mind working towards something but it's not very fun having to grind the same rampage for hours upon hours and often times have nothing to show for it. Sometimes a person ends up waiting half an hour just to get into a group. Getting justice gear is fun. Idling around the Ren Cen for a rampage to start for half an hour is not, especially with how often one has to do it in order to get the needed tokens.
The low drop rate makes the process feel closer to tedious and further from fun. I'll still end up grinding as much as I need to in order to get my justice gear, but I would actually have MORE fun if I had to run each rampage LESS often.
I don't mind working towards something but it's not very fun having to grind the same rampage for hours upon hours and often times have nothing to show for it. Sometimes a person ends up waiting half an hour just to get into a group. Getting justice gear is fun. Idling around the Ren Cen for a rampage to start for half an hour is not, especially with how often one has to do it in order to get the needed tokens.
The low drop rate makes the process feel closer to tedious and further from fun. I'll still end up grinding as much as I need to in order to get my justice gear, but I would actually have MORE fun if I had to run each rampage LESS often.
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I'm starting to agree more with the suggestion that the token requirement for Justice Gear should be increased by 10x, with 1-5 tokens dropping per run. I'd feel like every run contributed to my progress that way.
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So i guess the lesson is - when/if you get a token drop dont keep bashing away with the same character - swap to an alt and try again. or wait for next rotation - so effectively a weekly mission
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This.
Random is not the way to go here. Most MMO's that use tokens have a set number of tokens that drop every time, and the items cost a certain number of them. MMO's that rely on random drops are ones that simply drop the gear. If the drops are meant to be time gated anyway, then maybe there should be a certain number you're guaranteed to get every cycle. That way there's a bare minimum that you earn from participating in a successful run.
I just wanted to add in that the token can still drop as a reward as a rare chance. It still again, would keep the Justice Gear, time gated as designed.
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Also, top gear (Justice or Legion) simply isn't needed for anything in this game. Your level 40 toon can rock out in Fire and Ice or elite-skill lairs using Heroic Gear.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
The token drop is based on an RnG rate, that diminishes the more you get, and it's low to begin with. Aside from the token drops, no other gear, or useful items are dropped from these rampages. They could include many other things that would be considered useful. The problem is that they do not have a worthy drop table, for the effort involved.
My suggestion to include in the drop table:
BoP Devices that are exclusive to the nature of the type of Rampage. An example of this would be like a RimFire Burst type of Device that drops only in Fire and Ice, or a Device that uses a force detonation/gravity detonation type of attack like that in Gravitar. Again, these devices would be BoP, rare, and worth the effort.
Other things to include that could be rewarding would be passive questionite boosters, or even by a rare chance, a Retcon token.
Things like this, is what makes the effort to reward ratio of these rampages worth it. The developers need to put more thought into the drop tables. Currently this is their thought process on it:
"Tokens, costume unlocks, aura".
And not a single one of those items, actually improves your character's performance. The least they could do, is include as I said before, Devices that are exclusive to said rampages.
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Gravitar was nice one day and gave me 3 costumes in a row, skank wear, necklace and construction vest.
I'm now doin them, when I feel like it, betwen levelling alts adn trying to get rid of Anneikas embarrassing nemesis
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Here's what I have so far:
These results match my perception of the drop rate before I started tracking them. Not really sure if these are statistically significant results.
(Edit: Realized I had a couple of post-token runs in there that
(Edit: ... should be removed from tracking.)
..Until it came down to me only needing 4 more tokens from Gravitar. *6/6/2/6. or spent on one piece 4/4/0/4* Now I honestly don't care. Though for everyone else, yes. I think the drop rate needs a bit of a touch up *especially Gravitar who it seems drops her once 3k valued costume pieces more than the now coveted Token*
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All other are fine so far.
It's at the micro-level where problems start to show up, i.e. players without many alts or with limited time to play per rotation.
I won't say I want a higher droprate, but I do support a more granular reward interval that does not diminish. There's been suggestions to increase droprate and then increase Justice gear prices accordingly, and that's something I can get behind.
I don't mind droprates being raised 10x, including the chance of multiple token drops per character per run, and then lifting diminishing returns but making tokens bind to character. And then subsequently raise the component cost to 10x, i.e. costing 20 tokens per piece.
The RNG element can be reserved for super-luxury/novelty AH-able items - have one per Rampage.
*There are a number of gaps that could be filled in terms of secondaries. An Armadillo-type set with flat 10% Dodge set bonus would be really nice for WotW builds. Alternatively, a Vigilante-like set with a distribution of perhaps 20/12/12 instead of 44 to primary superstat would be a nice alternative for characters looking for a more balanced stat distribution, but still behind dropped purples for characters looking for a single stat focus in one secondary (or other) stat.
The idea here is that you have to work to get power, but there's still an RNG element to motivate players to keep running - you get a chance to strike the lottery for novelty items - stuff that looks unique but does not necessarily give a definitive advantage over existing items. The Tsunami is a really good example of that. It has awful stats but goes for almost 10x the amount of an 8-slotter with 10% bonus, because it's rare and has a unique skin.
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The biggest issue with the Rampage Token RNG system is that it has one of two bugs going on with it.
Either
A) The 'cycle' reset which returns your DR after getting a token is not resetting for all characters when the cycles reset.
Or
If the bug is A then you can run that same character a thousand times and you'll never get that token if you haven't gotten it by the 10th run.
If the bug is B then a group of five people can run a single character and have one player be lucky enough to get token drops on run 1, 2, 3, and 4 while another gets no tokens at all on those first four runsl and regardless of the results they'll both have the exact same luck on run 5. Regardless, because of the way DR works you'll never get a token after the 10th run.
Tip of the story for players regardless of which bug is in place, do not run a single character more than 10 times. Change alts or give up until the next cycle.
In closing... What the hell were the coders thinking when they added DR to the code in the first place? Justice gear is Char locked when bought. You can't even change them to another character on the same account. So who the hell is being hurt by a person running a single char 100 times in a row rather than alting? This dumb as hell DR system ruins rampages for people with little gaming time and only a single character because it'll take them months to get anything. It ruins rampages for people with lots of gaming time because once they get a token there's no point in continuing. Furthermore it ruins rampages for _everyone_ because there will be less 'pops' of the rampage because fewer people will be wanting to join. Epic fail Cryptic / Perfect World.
Overall I like your idea, but this part I am not so sure about.
At this time I am willing to use my healer, even a bunch of runs after she got her token on F&I, since small as it may be, I still have a chance at something useful.
But I am not really interrested in gearing my healer into hustice gear at all, so I wouldn't have any reason to use her for F&I aside from the alert being fun, or helping other people get their tokens. If there are more people who do that it might become much harder to find a balanced team.
Over the first 36 days of the revamped Rampage Alerts I averaged about an hour a day doing Alerts (that's going through the rotation 3 times). With that time commitment I was able to accumulate enough tokens for a complete set of justice gear, with 10 extra tokens to spare. So well on my way to a second set. I probably would have had a few more, but during the first rotation Fire and Ice was new to me (and many others) and the missions were mostly failing. Once I got on to the Rampagers channel and was running with with well-made teams the success rate went way up, and so did the number of tokens I was getting.
So, for me, this wasn't very much of a grind and the token drop rate seemed reasonably fair (Cryptic does want to sell lock boxes so people get the drifter salvage for the gear, so it would make sense that they make the tokens reasonably accessible). Some days I'd get none. The next day I get 2 back to back on different toons. It seems much more feasible that I'll eventually be able to deck out all my level 40s with JG.
Only question now is whether it'll be worth getting SCR gear for new level 40s. First I'll have to spend ca. 6 days to get it, then have to pay out ca. 60K Q to unequip the mods once I have the JG. Maybe high end blues will suffice until the new guy gets his JG.
That's just my take. Your results may vary
I practically lost count of how many successful runs of F+I I was on the past 3 days and never a single token dropped for me, while I'm sitting on a pile of the other Justice Gear tokens that can't be used since the set can't be completed. Hell, one other player claimed he counted the number of times he ran the rampage and came up with 67 runs.
67. Runs. No token.
I tried switching characters in hopes the DR would be kinder to them, and got nothing.
The droprates are quite probably borked and need to be looked at. If not, then an alternative solution really should be considered (Caliga's idea of the weekly mission is one that I feel would be appropriate)
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That'd be me - After you left I've ran more and came up at a whopping 74 or so. Ended up making a ticket as a bug report too.
Absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile, for Sky Command I got a token on my 3rd run. Jesus christ.
Fire and Ice is astonishingly bad. I hate having to form a private queue each and every time, and it stresses me out having to spam zone and the rampagers channel.
After all is said and done, what do I have to show for it? A bunch of worthless costumes that won't sell on the market, 7 extra action figures I can't even vendor, and 42k worth of pure questionite ore signifying the ridiculous number of times I've had to run the worst rampage. (In my opinion at least. I just hate Fire and Ice, I wonder why.)
DR is didn't cycle? Nope mabey the DR is 2 cycles? No now seems to be per character?
Either way, grats to people who "got theirs" seems the rampage system is cooling off quick. This multi token plus DR system is not looking maintanable with the population levels. Just not enough people on consistantly who want to do Rampage X, with less and less every cycle.. Sooner or later it will break, and break quicker every cycle. Are the funds of Drifter slavage enough to make Cryptic "look back" or will this join the "abandoned content" club? Time will tell.
I feel like it would have been a much simpler way, and would not have sucked the fun out of Rampages. I find that I hate doing them sometimes. I only run F+I as my healer, I ran 20+successful runs last rotation. 0 tokens. I haven't even touched it this rotation, because I feel like it's a waste of time.
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I've noticed this with Fire and Ice too. First time running it with my characters it took a few tries (2-5 times) and I got the tokens. Now F&I is back (2nd cycle). 12 attempts with one character and 9 on the other has resulted in zero tokens. Either it's really bad RNG or my characters didn't reset. If it is RNG, than the drop rate is pretty low and I just got lucky the first time around. Personally, I feel the drop rate should be higher for the first drop. To encourage players to keep queing Rampages, I think they need to add more rewards for turning in tokens besides Justice Gear. I agree Rampages are going to phase out when most of the population is geared up, which will leave newbies or new alts struggling to get ahead.
I honestly don't understand the logic of the crap rates. This is a game where subbers have tons of alts, due to getting a slot whenever a character hits 40. If the rates are decent, then people won't just quit once they get the justice gear on one character. But if the rates suck, they are more likely to just throw their hands in the air and quit, and not run the rampages at all.
I understand that those 2 can take awhile to run through, can be boring if you have a bunch of vehicles all decked out properly, and can be frustrating when, after all that time, you don't get a token drop. So, lots of people have given up on them. Since PWE wants people to spend money buying Zen in order to buy the drifter salvage necessary to buy the JG you'd think they'd want to either adjust the lengths of SC and LI so you can get to the end more quickly (like end SC after the megadestroid goes down) or somewhat improve their token drop rates in order to get people to spend more real money. Personally, I'd rather spend money on gear for my real hero than buying vehicles and vehicle gear. Not sure if I'm typical in that way, but they'd get more money from me through JG than they ever will for vehicles.
Lemurian Invasion and F&I are usually the worst for me. I think why Gravitar is decent is because it pops frequently. Sky Command and Lemurian Invasion are usually the ones I see que times take the longest on. F&I can be bad too if terrible pugs are queing for the day. Waited almost 40 minutes tonight for a Sky Command pop, just for it to be a failure. At this rate I'll probably not get my 2 Sky Command tokens in for the week. Unfortunate considering it's the only ones I need for my next Justice piece. :mad:
They are account bound and can be traded to your other characters via your hideout shared bank space. If you need a hideout, there are some ARC codes that will give 2 freebie hideouts.
Thank you for telling me that! I was unaware of that second ARC code. :biggrin: