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Shields and other knightly warriorish stuff, but mostly shields. Ok, only shields.
flyingfinn
Posts: 8,408 Arc User
Now that we've got Fairies and Ranger Elves. How about dive to the deep end and add some Knightly Shields. You know those things that knights use to protect themselfs and others from flying fire breathing dragons and giant treetrunk swinning giants.
There's some nice Shield powers at the NW. Shift those to CO, fiddle around them abit and make a Mini Power Set to Might.
You could use PA's Energy Shield as a template.
We could even have a Shield Toss power with the Laser Sword's Particle Smash power.
And add some nice Shield Costume Pieces while you're at it.
There's some nice Shield powers at the NW. Shift those to CO, fiddle around them abit and make a Mini Power Set to Might.
You could use PA's Energy Shield as a template.
We could even have a Shield Toss power with the Laser Sword's Particle Smash power.
And add some nice Shield Costume Pieces while you're at it.
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On a serious note, don't transfer NWO shield tech over mechanically. Just make a new power tree in the Might section, which is all about Shield weapons. A set that focuses melee and range AoE knock downs, repels and stuns that potentially increases your defenses.
From the Millennium City Champions PnP Sourcebook.
Note: Reggie here didnt use the shield as a projectile ala Cap, but he did use it for bashing people (ex american footballer so picture a hulking black man running a large metal plate flat against your nasal bone)
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Well, you never know....perhaps they have made the Scarlet Shield outfit because they are going to introduce shield powers, or at least proper shield costume pieces.
If they are, then they could do worse than looking at this.....http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Shield_Customization.
I only played CoH for a few months, but I enjoyed playing my shield using hero, the Galaxy City Guardian.......the shield customisation was pretty awesome (although I prefer CO overall for character customisation).
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As long as our toons don't have to hold shields like those pictures. Because it looks silly.
And shield bashing must have a dramatic sweeping motion that knocks enemies on their ****. It should work as well as Rising Knee.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
But we need shields.
I don't see why we would have that stance if they are costume pieces.
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Not the stance, but the way they have the shield attached to their arm. Currently, the one not round shield we have and those are attached to the arm horizontally instead of vertically. Which looks silly.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Right okay, not the stance. I got ya there.
However, I'm not 100% sure of your meaning for the rest of what ya said. I could just assume, but I don't like doing that.
Do you mean that this would be wrong?.........
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
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Well, each to their own, but that looks a bit silly and impactical to me. To block with a shield, the bearer would hold their arm horizontally ...having the back straps as they are in the above image, with a long shield like that, would mean the shield would cover less of the body.
However, both styles of back straps were used on heater and kite shields, so I suppose a choice of the two would be best.
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That's actually not a way of holding any shields. That's actually pretty absurd way of having shield. It looks just silly.
FYI real shields can come in two varieties - those strapped to arm...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2578187756_dfba4b1168.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O-l1-qFVCoE/R8JNVgZvlHI/AAAAAAAAAKc/ZQRcldchKzo/s320/grips.jpg
http://hetar.republika.pl/JMhpln2.jpg
and those only held by hand with central grip.
http://www.hurstwic.org/activities/albums/recent/pix/demo_0109_shield.jpg
http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1391_face.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WXGziVvHxI4/TVNB3jMgG9I/AAAAAAAAACk/ry3f0oKuW1Y/s1600/scutum.jpg
Strapped shields are fixed horizontally, because otherwise shield can't be used for bashing opponents and you can't cover your whole body crouching behind it.
The way how guy on this screenshot has his shield is ridiculous. He can't crouch behind it, he can't really smash people with center of his shield, it's just wrong.
Neverwinter has very good shield animations. They have feel of standing power behind it, and still look cool.
Drawings of Capt America and this Scarlet Shield guy are, actually, more like how shield should be used.
I suppose you could use that sharp bottom to injure people behind you. but the purpose of a shield is to protect you from people ahead of you generally.
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Because it doesn't look silly for most of people.
Honestly, it would be better to not have shields at all, than to be sentenced for living with this kind of awkward animation. It doesn't even really look cool. The guy looks like he wanted to hurt himself with his own shield.
It would be like Steady Shoot, but for shields. Strange.
It's also not the way how most iconic shield-user in comic books is using his shield. Neither how DC Guardian does it.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Honestly, if it was the only option of having shield model attached to character, it would keep me from touching any shield power. It doesn't look solid, nor heroic.
Not the way Capt America does it.
Fortunately, it's just an angle in which shield is attached to forearm. It could be possible to make every shield model in both versions, horizontal and vertical.
Then it's only up to the player, whether character has to look silly, or not.
And if those shields are curved a bit, they're curving into the arm. Which just means you're deflecting blows into your body instead of down and away.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Because that's the purpose of the shield. Deflecting blows with strength of your whole arm or bracing yourself for impact. And preferably, with your whole body covered behind the shield, which can't be horizontal (only a few shield designs were ever horizontal and all were more parrying bucklers than regular shields).
You will not absorb any blow without proper bracing, and proper bracing is made with your entire arm, torso and leaning forward to counter blows with your body weight.
Your "way" used by warrior would result in broken elbow at best.
CoX poses, believe it or not are actually practical and correct. Within limits of old graphical engine. They allow for moving shield up, down and on sides, they also allow for punching it into somebody's face.
A lot of games uses proper poses and handles with shield. Even those aiming for cool and flashy moves. This one you posted? First time I see something that silly.
If the elbow in my pic would be broken, so would all of the other ones. The biggest difference is the shape of the shield and holding it vertically instead of horizontally. All of them are strapped onto the back of the forearm.
You keep saying that is the proper way to hold a shield... There are somewhere around 10 different types of shields and that's just from the medieval period.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I've not included heroes with round shields....Captain America and Red Guardian, cause round shields don't have an up and down. There is a retired superhero called the Black Badge in Astro City (couldn't get a decent image of him on google) who also did not carry his shield upside down.
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Good. So thousands of people were doing it wrong for centuries. No wonder they finally died. Their shieldplay was completely wrong. :rolleyes:
But not a single one was used in a way proposed by you. So?
Also, care to show me authentic medieval shield, preferably on reeneactors, not from any game, worn that way? Because I'm quite sure you will not find anything like it.
If this is that great way, why nobody was using it, and it isn't sed widely even in games? Maybe because it do looks silly?
This guy on your pic has kite shield, well, that's how it's shaped anyway. Except kite shields are working because they are following vertical body shape.
Answer yourself, why nobody ever was wearig shield that way. Police riot shiels are strapped horizontally. Medieval kite shields were strapped horizontally.
The only shields with more or less horizontal shape were ony held in hand, not strapped to arm, and they could be positioned any way possible.
How this guy on your screenshot wears his shield IS awkward, offers him no body protection and looks like whoever was attaching shield to the character model had no idea how shields are working, or are used.
Also.. I can't recall your proposed way from any comic books. It doesn't even fit with genre.
I gather you like Dark Souls, but as good as it is as a game, it is not an ultimate, the best game ever made.
Neither in terms of gameplay, nor visuals.
Not everything must be like Dark Souls. Especially not western games.
And I think Dark Souls are the only game with doing it that way.
I see no reason why our shield powers should follow something that obscure, when Cryptic already has very good shield moves and stances - in Neverwinter.
CO doesn't need to be redone into completely unrelated game. It needs to look like a comic book game. Our model should be Capt America, not Dark Souls.
Perhaps while reality may intrude for the interest of immersion/fantasy/theme/aesthetic preference any shields added should have several connection angles to the forearm. Something like this maybe:
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Agreed.
That would be great.
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It's not upside down when you use it...
Things gets made up all the time, I fail to see why my option is inferior. It still look much better than the mech assassin shield any day. Which is in game and looks ridiculous when you try and use it with one of the blocks.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Now, what do people think about what type of set the shield powers should be. I don't mean all the individual powers, but in general?
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Giving a train wings is how threads stay on the front page.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. In what power set they should be in? General shieldly mechanics? The dominant role of the shield user?
Brick seems to be the popular place for shields to go. I normally picture shields being used by tanks. Although, a smaller shield for a fast sword user would be cool too. So, something in MA could work.
Having some way for a shield user to absorb some of the damage from her team mates would be nice. (like a form) A great way to give squishier toons a small defense buff for those times when AoE happens. Maybe even have it so the more damage taken, the more powerful the shield user becomes. Either by being able to hold aggro better, an offense or defense boost, lower cool downs on shieldly powers, or whatever.
AoE taunting. That works. It seems silly that the MA ebs have taunts, but it's not really anywhere else without taking crippling challenge.
Some knock up or down powers.
Not sure about anything for a fast swordsman though. A block that adds a counter attack on damage taken? As in you get a free automatic jab with your weapon. Similar to parry, except not reflecting damage, but an actual attack.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I fail to see why CO must follow Dark Souls obscurity, when pretty much everyone else do not follow it.
What far eastern fantasy game has to do with superhero setting?
And a one with very dubious shield animation? Not everyone is in love with this one game, to request redoing every other game in its image.
Can you explain why CO has to follow this one game, when nobody else does it? Because I see no reason. :cool:
Also, mechassassin piece is a bracer firmly fixed to forearm. Shield powers must be done in a different way, like weapon models. It can't be based on existing costume pieces.
Whoever was making your "shield" block animation made it by just attaching shield model to unarmed block animation. It looks very similar to CO generic block animation. Shield powerset would need a new set of animations, preferably scavenged from Neverwinter, since there is no point in makint them from the scratch.
Shield enarmes.
Oh, hey. Options. That's cool. I would like all of those shields as options. ALL OF THEM.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Note how only one example has vertical enarme (which was also pointed as a wrong one in comments). All others are more or less horizontal. :biggrin:
But how would they do that? There are no "free" shield pieces atm. Would they make some of the new shield costume pieces free for all players? I can't really see a way around not doing that. The power sets that involve weapons atm all have a reasonable choice of free weapon skins in the tailor.
IMO It wouldn't be reasonable to bring out a powerset then say "but you have to buy the shield costume pack".
Not that I wouldn't buy such a pack...I'd be all over it like a Russian on borscht.
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Does Mech assassin not drop the shield anymore? I thought he did. Or is it just drifter trash now? Which should still be BoE, so a shield powerset would probably lead to more purchases for it.
Well, they'd release a shield power lockbox. Possibly a Shield Weapons pack like they have for ranged and melee weapons. A few drops can be added. Maybe to content that needs a miracle in terms of rewards. And, of course, just adding some default options.
It would essentially be a bundle of stuff.
Also, an option to use your right arm for your shield would be awesome. Or just to have a character that's left handed in general.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
They'd have to do them separate from arm, like Energy Shield FX, do them larger, and in few variants, for both hands and in few angles in which it may be attached to the arm.
But it would be Gold powerset anyway, at most there would be paid archetype released. So it's not like all this work would be for free.
And i got money to throw at them....
And Power Shield lines up nicely with Laser Knight adv. and Heavy Weapons.
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This would be awesome if made possible. It'd be a good mini-powerset that focused more on Tanking, rather than DPS. Heck, add in Slashing damage for things like Shield Throws or chops.
Might even be nice for a build balance for Single Blade, MA, or Ranged Munitions. PA would also be nice too. Heck, we already have energy/elemental shield visual effects for blocks, maybe integrate those designs into color able shields.
Though, the thing is, with Blocks already being in-place, how would a shield AT -really- benefit defensive capabilities compared to a R3-statted block power? Stronger percentages? Different advantages?
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If you're talking about a shield based block, I'd say give it something interesting. Maybe a small heal or HoT based on damage taken. Or a chance to shield bash that stuns for 1s or interrupts. Something that will work even on bosses.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Wallop (EB) - A basic melee smacking with your shield.
- Each first hit has a chance to knock the target down.
Shield Smash (T0 Combo) - A series of forceful advances using your shield arm.
- Hits in a cone
- Each hit pushes all targets backwards
- Each attack is a short-ranged lunge (10 feet) allowing the combo to naturally chase after its targets.
- Each 3rd hit grants temporary damage absorption (a la Eye of the Storm, but much weaker.)
- Advantage : Positive Reinforcement - Each hit has a 20% chance to restore a small percentage of your health to you.
Advancing Guard (T1 Lunge) - You charge into battle, shield raised.
- Lunges from sufficiently far enough away will knock the target down.
- Advantage: Wall of Iron - Transforms the hit area into a cone for lunges over 20 feet. In these cases, the Advancing Guard will grant small temporary damage absorption for each extra target you hit.
Shield (T1 Block) - You raise your shield to defend yourself from damage.
- Standard defensive strength, but allies within 15 feet of you get a +100% damage resistance (damage incoming halved).
- Each hit taken by another player under this effect generates threat for you.
- Advantage: Punishing Slam - 20% per incoming attack on you to do a counter bash, which knocks targets around you down and grants you 5 seconds of +20% Melee damage. Only happens once every 60 seconds.
Overrun (T1 Click) - You make a fast, short burst forward, knocking a target down.
- Target hit is knocked down and pushed back far.
- Extra damage dealt if the knock effects fail.
- Once every 10 seconds, Overrun provides minor damage absorption when used.
Iron Will (T1 Click AoE taunt) - You make a show of your bravery; beating your shield to attract attention, you prepare yourself for an incoming brawl.
- Enemies within 25 feet of you are afflicted by a threat effect from you.
- Grants strong temporary shielding for yourself. This shielding diminishes quickly over time.
- Enemies affected are forced into melee combat.
- Advantage:Rise to the Challenge - Changes Iron Will to a single-target ranged taunt. When done, the target is forced to attack you for 5 seconds, and both you and the enemy will do 60% more damage to one another, and 30% less to any other targets.
Guarded Crush (T2 Charge) - You take up a sturdy, defensive stance to charge up this straight shield bash.
- Single-target hit.
- Applies slight damage resistance while charging (20%).
- Taking damage during this charge grants you temporary boosts to melee damage, which apply to the guarded crush and any following attacks you might make.
- Cannot move while charging.
- Advantage: Stand down! - Has a 25-100% to apply Stagger, depending on charge.
Phalanx (T2 Click defense) - For a single hit, you can completely shrug off an incoming attack.
- You become stationary for 5 seconds, waiting for an incoming attack.
- All damage dealt on the next hit turns into a pushback effect for you (Attacks like Gravitar's Orange Blast will pretty much push you far out enough to make it impractical).
- The damage from the hit is transformed into a 5 second Heal over time. This HoT effect has a constant value.
- 30 second recharge (regardless of successful hit.)
- Advantage: Counter strike - Upon successful hit absorption, you deal 33% extra melee damage for 10 seconds. In addition, the recharges on any lunges you have are reset.
Flanking (T2 Charged single-target) - Throws out a surprise backhand blow with your shield, catching the enemy off guard.
- Does low damage to the target.
- Target is staggered
- 25-100% chance to stun the target. Chance rises with both charge duration and number of stagger stacks.
- Advantage : Imbalanced - Flanking also imparts weakness to knock effects on the target hit. This effect coincides with applications of stun, and can only occur once every 10 seconds.
Mighty Discus (T2 Cylinder Click) - Tosses out your shield in a straight line, hitting enemies both on the shield's way out and back.
- Hits enemies within 100 feet of you twice; once on the way out and once on the way back.
- Higher damage dealt the further a target is from you.
- Very long animation; you toss your shield out and wait until it goes through its whole flight before grabbing it and resuming standard combat.
- Enemies further than 50 feet are pushed outwards, while enemies who are near the outer limits (80+) are knocked.
- Advantage: Backspin - A powerful backspin on your toss reverses some of the kinematics. The initial hit of the shield no longer does any knock, but the rebound instead knocks targets inwards.
Shield Spate (T3 Click Damage Boost) - In a huge change of character, you emerge from behind your shield to fight back with incredible resolve.
- Grants 15 seconds of immunity to knock and hold.
- All damage absorption from any sources (Eye of the storm, Shield moves, Protection field, etc) is consumed and turned into extra melee damage (minimum 30% extra, maximum 100). The efficiency of this effect is determined by your Constitution score.
- 60 second recharge.
Roof of Steel (T3 Charge) - You deal out a finishing blow by slamming your shield on an enemy from above.
- High damage attack to a single target.
- Does 2X damage if the target is stunned, knocked, or staggered. (Consumes any and all of these effects.)
- Advantage : Coup de Grace - Does 50% extra damage if the target is below one third of their health. This effect can only be triggered once every 15 seconds.
I can see this set working great on its own, or with single blade/heavy weapons/unarmed MA.
I found this great gif.......would make a great animation for your mighty discus ranged attack....
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Passive - In most modern games, shield skills really have never really had many passive effects. Usually you got to actively block stuff to make use of it, and at the very least, it becomes a sporadic effect (like dodge). As far as I know, there also isn't any very good niche for a new defense passive to fill here. All things considered, this would end up likely as a brick set, in which Defiance would likely become its standard passive. And really, that would probably make the most sense.
Lunge - See : Advancing Guard.
Mighty Discus - No lie, the real inspiration I had for that move (i.e. what convinced me it might be possible) is the heavy attack used by Axe fighters in DCUO - It's basically what I described for Mighty Discus there, only with a big old axe. It's really nice, because it provides a good way to make a powerful but balanced throwing weapon, as opposed to just tossing out a million boomerangs from nowhere. (actually speaking of influence a whole bunch of this set is also inspired by the Guardian Fighter as well, so neeyeheaheh).
Deflection - All incoming attacks have a chance to deflect damage back on the attacker or their allies, generating threat. Rank 1: 10 - 35% chance of 20% damage deflection, Rank 2: 15 - 40% chance of 25% damage deflection, rank 3: 25 - 50% of 30% damage deflection.
The damage deflection amount could be the same base amount all ranks, but increased by stacks of deflection which are gained up to a max of 3 while you are taking damage.
Would that work? the numbers may be out from reality in game, but is the general idea sound?
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