It would make aphrodite very happy actually. he hates devices and thinks his builds are unkillable without them lol.
That being said. This nerf sucks and everything bacon said should apply. Lets face the facts, this nerf only came because 98% of the pve community are crybabies whining about getting out-dpsed and out perfermed in both pve and pvp. It's been like that forever.
Where did I mention Aphro? Could have been Cupid. Your instant assumption speaks volumes. A room get one and can I be your bridesmaid.
Ive seen Aphro in BASH. Ive seen Aphro spam ice nades like some ice nadey junkie. Hell theres even countless vids from countless PvPers that SHOW the likes of Malware and Xeno FARMING Aphro even though he/she were flinging all sorts of devices their way. The death rants are so entertaining ^_^
Hey kiddoes dont take my word for it pick any PvPers You Tube channel see for yourself the video proof is out there :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It would make aphrodite very happy actually. he hates devices and thinks his builds are unkillable without them lol.
That being said. This nerf sucks and everything bacon said should apply. Lets face the facts, this nerf only came because 98% of the pve community are crybabies whining about getting out-dpsed and out perfermed in both pve and pvp. It's been like that forever.
What are you, 12? Cry babies because pve is so hard? Really? And as for pvp, who can't add five eruptions and call themselves a pvper with a half decent build... It's about balance in a game that has little to none. This nerf helps. (A bit) The only thing that sucks IMHO is it didn't happen sooner, along with maybe some compensation for the nerf.
Build a toon. Use that toon, free of crutches. If you can't too bad.
@lovehammer1@kemmicals My exaggerated comparison did not work as intented. Got that. Should have thought it through more to reach a better understanding of what I mean. Guess I felt too angry when writing it.
It's cool.
I guess some people are really attached to their devices. I guess I will never understand.
How did you compete before them? Just asking...
Wow, thats a pretty sensible fix. Nice to see some common sense changes to the devices situation.
I do kind of see the point some players have made. Unequipping the devices and turning off their BoE status for the first login would be good...If thats possible. I'm not honestly sure that it is.
On the bright side, I am motivated to try and get these devices, now that their exploit nature has been fixed. Kinda figured something along these lines would happened.
Lotta people that say they PvP and dont use nades. Liars the lot of them
When I pvp I sometimes equip nades I aint gonna BS about it and no use in me denying it theres to many PvP vids where Trouble appears and starts flinging them around for me to start that crap.
To many people have seen me dueling infront of the powerhouse and see me spaming omi or killing mega d with a swarm of dinos.
But you know what the nerf I welcome it, its about time it needs removed.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
What are you, 12? Cry babies because pve is so hard? Really? And as for pvp, who can't add five eruptions and call themselves a pvper with a half decent build... It's about balance in a game that has little to none. This nerf helps. (A bit) The only thing that sucks IMHO is it didn't happen sooner, along with maybe some compensation for the nerf.
Build a toon. Use that toon, free of crutches. If you can't too bad.
No one said anything about PvE being hard. As for PvP, you don't even PvP or if you do, its VERY rare since I've never seen you in any PvP zone. People that don't PvP shouldn't even mention the word PvP. And PvP doesn't mean "que for ONE bash a month, get steamrolled, and say "i have pvp experience so I know what im talking about".
If you read any of my previous posts you would realize I'm all for devices being unusable in pvp instances. My main point is exactly what bacons been saying.
No one said anything about PvE being hard. As for PvP, you don't even PvP or if you do, its VERY rare since I've never seen you in any PvP zone. People that don't PvP shouldn't even mention the word PvP. And I don't mean que for ONE bash a month, get steamrolled, and say "i have pvp experience so I know what im talking about".
If you read any of my previous posts you would realize I'm all for devices being unusable in pvp instances. My main point is exactly what bacons been saying.
LOL lovehammer1 isnt his @tag . He pvps quite a lot XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No one said anything about PvE being hard. As for PvP, you don't even PvP or if you do, its VERY rare since I've never seen you in any PvP zone. People that don't PvP shouldn't even mention the word PvP. And PvP doesn't mean "que for ONE bash a month, get steamrolled, and say "i have pvp experience so I know what im talking about".
If you read any of my previous posts you would realize I'm all for devices being unusable in pvp instances. My main point is exactly what bacons been saying.
I played pvp from day one up until 2011 non stop! leveled many toons through PVP. I check into ZA every once and a while just for kicks. But I have played enough to know why it's dead. So, I will mention PVP anytime I damn well please. As for the reason I stopped, the exploits. The hate. The Egos. And I have never been steamrolled, and even if I did, that wouldn't be a reason to leave. A-holes and the greater than thou attitude is enough. Moving on though, this is a good thing for those that want some balance to the game. I think this helps a bit.
Lots more work to do.
I played pvp from day one up until 2011 non stop! leveled many toons through PVP. I check into ZA every once and a while just for kicks. But I have played enough to know why it's dead. So, I will mention PVP anytime I damn well please. As for the reason I stopped, the exploits. The hate. The Egos. And I have never been steamrolled, and even if I did, that wouldn't be a reason to leave. A-holes and the greater than thou attitude is enough. Moving on though, this is a good thing for those that want some balance to the game. I think this helps a bit.
Lots more work to do.
Why you ruin my guess who fun. Even less people q for Zombeh you've just narrowed the suspects, you may as well have tattooed ur name on ur head ._.
This is why I cant have nice things U__U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Can we stick to the changes being made and any bugs being found? This is a PTS forum after all and hopefully the devs don't have to read pages of pointless arguments to find the bugs that people post.
Im not saying he is any good btw. Heres a hint ive ganked him a few times *
But im still gonna wind you up. This game has no endgame and ima bored ^__^
But as some has asked for an unbind token in c-store would be nice my other 4 nades are gonna be useless :<
*to be fair he has ganked me also but i suck at pvp
Umm... not me Nepht. I think I'm on your friends list. Or I was. Have two accounts with another player, who doesn't play anymore.
The one I use now is @Microman.
Can we stick to the changes being made and any bugs being found? This is a PTS forum after all and hopefully the devs don't have to read pages of pointless arguments to find the bugs that people post.
Umm... not me Nepht. I think I'm on your friends list. Or I was. Have two accounts with another player, who doesn't play anymore.
The one I use now is @Microman.
Yeah thats you ^__^ I have a vid awhile back were you ganked me good ( all be it a few years old). And to keep the Voodoo gal happeh again an unbind token to help cushion the blow will be welcome ^__^
The argument just proves a point these devices caused a lot of people to give up on PvP.
The argument might have seemed silly at first but REALLY look at it ^__^ The devices are the cause of the tension between players. These devices were making PvP unfun and the nerf is welcome.
What is the most common thing said at an end of a duel besides GF? Its " Device using NOOB!"
I really do hope the devs do consider a way to unbind these items
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yeah thats you ^__^ I have a vid awhile back were you ganked me good ( all be it a few years old). And to keep the Voodoo gal happeh again an unbind token to help cushion the blow will be welcome ^__^
95% correct
The argument just proves a point these devices caused a lot of people to give up on PvP.
The argument might have seemed silly at first but REALLY look at it ^__^ The devices are the cause of the tension between players. These devices were making PvP unfun and the nerf is welcome.
You have a vid of me ganking you? Really? A few years ago?
Cool! I used to play bash all day every day! Ahh... that was fun back then. I sure hope this nerf helps bring back some of the old magic.
Can we stick to the changes being made and any bugs being found? This is a PTS forum after all and hopefully the devs don't have to read pages of pointless arguments to find the bugs that people post.
This is a good point right here. Ok, here's one bug:
Bug:
Legacy devices already equipped before the changes stay equipped, allowing the use of say, 5 phermones, post changes.
Solution:
Force unequip of devices on log on, thus guaranteeing the device changes.
Hey all, just wanted to weigh in on this one really quick.
We made these devices available in the Drifter store because they're a lot of fun to play around with. They were never intended to be a core part of the CO experience, and they're certainly not balanced for players to have 5 of them running at once. (It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
Part of releasing any item into the game is watching for any unintended consequences that cause harm to the game as a whole, and then working to correct those issues. That's what we're doing in this case: Having items like this is making it more difficult and time-consuming to create new content, and hurting existing content.
I know that many of you have raised the point that these items are bound, and that you are worried that you'll end up with devices that you can't use. We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
I know that many of you have raised the point that these items are bound, and that you are worried that you'll end up with devices that you can't use. We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
-TrailTurtle
This is very promising. I wish you guys all the best in figuring this out. It may balance out the tears that will undoubtedly be shed once this goes LIVE.
This is very promising. I wish you guys all the best in figuring this out. It may balance out the tears that will undoubtedly be shed once this goes LIVE.
And more interestingly, crash the prices by providing more supply so more people can have fun with them. Because it's now official that that was supposed to be the point, not the pay-to-win they'd turned into.
you were talking about a mega D blast wave?? my mistake. yeah most of my toons survive that as well. I thought you were talking about something different. CYBERMIND'S DIGITAL RAIN.
Cybermind's Digital Rain can be survived by PFF and Invuln as well. As long as you don't needlessly stand in the rain.
We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
Hey all, just wanted to weigh in on this one really quick.
We made these devices available in the Drifter store because they're a lot of fun to play around with. They were never intended to be a core part of the CO experience, and they're certainly not balanced for players to have 5 of them running at once. (It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
Part of releasing any item into the game is watching for any unintended consequences that cause harm to the game as a whole, and then working to correct those issues. That's what we're doing in this case: Having items like this is making it more difficult and time-consuming to create new content, and hurting existing content.
Hey all, just wanted to weigh in on this one really quick.
We made these devices available in the Drifter store because they're a lot of fun to play around with. They were never intended to be a core part of the CO experience, and they're certainly not balanced for players to have 5 of them running at once. (It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
Part of releasing any item into the game is watching for any unintended consequences that cause harm to the game as a whole, and then working to correct those issues. That's what we're doing in this case: Having items like this is making it more difficult and time-consuming to create new content, and hurting existing content.
I know that many of you have raised the point that these items are bound, and that you are worried that you'll end up with devices that you can't use. We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
-TrailTurtle
Hopefully all the folks affected by this "fix" will feel that this is an adequate compensation.
Thanks for listening, TT.
Had this just rolled out as-is, you would have had anarchy.
Althought I'm affected personally, I'm more concerned with the long term effects:
1. People are going to lose faith in PWE simply because an item that was allowed to sit on the server for over a year is now, suddenly going to change (instead of targetting the problem areas like stacking eruptions)
2. People will open boxes less often which means less revenue... Especially right away. If we, all of the sudden, have enough of the most sought-after devices on each of our accounts to put on each of our characters (and, in some cases, outfit an army), there will be very little need to open boxes. And even for the folks that don't have them, they will now only need one vs. 5. That's a big hit for you guys in terms of zen sales.
3. The difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" will be increasingly obvious now. Since the market will crash from being diluted from all of these unbound devices, folks sitting on anything more than a few thousand globals will become a thing of wonder in the months to come since everything will be dirt cheap (since nobody will be buying).
4. The "fun factor" will be seriously diluted.. now, this is short term and mostly for the folks that are going to be hit pretty hard by the device FUBAR. For those folks, my heart goes out to them and I urge them to stick around.. I'm sure PWE will come up with something better than simply unbinding something you paid 5K each for and saved for 6 months just to get... only to have it become unusable, worthless or both.
and lastly: I really hope this is the end of the 18 month patch creation process. If you guys see something broken or that you don't feel is working as intended, maybe letting us know instead of letting things go as if everything is fine... that might prevent folks from stocking up on those items and ultimately ending up quitting the game due to your errors.
After all, I've said this already a billion times, this isn't a glitch or a bug. It's not an exploit or something that only a few people knew about. These items were, for all practical purposes, working AS INTENDED. Why do I said this? Because they weren't changed and nothing was said for over a year. Which is why people invested so heavily in them and made builds around them. Was it really hurting the server (PVE)? Not really. Would it have "impacted" PVE missions? Not really. But apparently just flagging them as non-PVP wasn't an option. SO here we go again..
STRIKE THREE.. (Prototype Jets, Backups last year, now legacy devices).
I hear you, Trail Turtle.. you said they were meant to only fill a single slot. So they weren't working as intended. I get it. But try explaining that to people that took your silence as validation of the fact that they WERE meant to work that way. Granted, there were obvious exceptions like the perma-godmode with the eruptions that I just heard about today. But you're really not in a position to punish those folks either.
What WOULD be the perfect scenario? I would say:
RESOLUTION: The most expensive device (and most rare) would be pheremones. This device has become a staple in the game, like it or not. People have ventured into "pet builds" because of them, etc. This is going to be where you're going to have the most issues with players. In some cases people paid 5-6,000 globals EACH for them. So if you're going to make them non-stackable. I recommend doing something for the players (beyond unbinding them). Make all the pheremones that have already been found/bound summon 3x the normal amount of hatchlings from a single device. That's meeting both sides halfway.. the folks with 5 pheremones lose out, but still can summon SOME hatchlings, but they aren't going from a max of 15 to max of 3. The difference with summoning off a single device is: Where you were 5x more likely to summon a dino every 10 seconds, now you're only 1x as likely, even though you'll get 3x as many as you would with a single device, you're still getting far less than if you had 5 due to only having one chance at it instead of 5. So there are definitely disadvantages. But the folks with only a few pheremones won't really feel cheated and like something they BOUGHT from you is being taken away... even though it is.
I don't know of any other issues with stacked devices that really was causing an issue... but making the rest of them on a shared 30 second timer would probably work, so I think that's the right thing to do.
This message brought to you by the superhero:
Bacon Overlord
All available action figures, check.
Hit the global cap, check.
All lore and event perks done, check.
All 1K mob perks done, check.
All nemesis mob perks done, check.
Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Are contained in the new boxes, this may change your view on opening boxes.
But that is me just being me: Optimistic. (It's how I got through the 10 month ordeal with Telepathy.)
I could be wrong in your eyes or in the eyes of others, but the way I see it; As long as there is *something* in the boxes people want, be it Legion or Devices or Costume Pieces, there will be sales.
So far, I personally have not looked in a lockbox and seen something I didn't want (from the description of it)
I am OVERJOYED that the devices will FINALLY follow the laws that they used to. I don't see this as a "NERF" so much as an EXTREMELY late finished version of the new Drifter Distribution Model.
As you all know, these devices used to be drops that bound on pick up if I remember correctly. There was NO WAY to have more then 1 on a single character before. This is how they were built, and how they should have always worked. Those that have been here before ON ALERT know all this, and therefore knew this would(and SHOULD) eventually be fixed.
I'm just glad I didn't waste any salvage on the devices yet myself. Still trying to get the costume pieces.
As for this FIX lowering Key Sales, I HIGHLY doubt it will have that much of an impact. Right now Lockboxes are still the ONLY way to obtain...
Not to mention the BEST/FASTEST way to collect Mods, and high ranking Mods to boot. I do wish they also included 1 Safeguard with each stack of 5 Mods though.
I used to protest all Gamble Bags/Boxes with a passion. I hadn't opened up a single one since the Malvan boxes upon my return to the game after an extended break. I'm sure glad I caved and gave them a try. They do in fact give you quite a lot for you money now. It took Cryptic quite a long time to perfect them, but I feel like they finally got them JUST RIGHT.
So I don't know about anyone else, but I plan on continuing to purchase up keys whenever I'm able too.
These changes are GREAT for the game as a whole. Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see what other fixes we have coming soon. :biggrin:
Not to mention the BEST/FASTEST way to collect Mods, and high ranking Mods to boot. I do wish they also included 1 Safeguard with each stack of 5 Mods though.
^ This right here. Also a fantastic reason to continue opening boxes. I am glad someone mentioned this.
We made these devices available in the Drifter store because they're a lot of fun to play around with. They were never intended to be a core part of the CO experience, and they're certainly not balanced for players to have 5 of them running at once. (It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
This bit covers most, if not all of the important points.
Part of releasing any item into the game is watching for any unintended consequences that cause harm to the game as a whole, and then working to correct those issues. That's what we're doing in this case: Having items like this is making it more difficult and time-consuming to create new content, and hurting existing content.
haha wait, I'm losing my overpowered I win button, so you should make the existing ones act like the overpowered I win button you're taking away. I mean... Really?
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
While the line about letting players unbind their extra devices is quite an important part of TT's note (and I'm glad to read it even though I am unaffected by this change), I think an equally important part is this:
(It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
The device limiting isn't a nerf people; it's a bug fix.
Next year can you guys PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add Sapphires Jacket, Boots and Belt to the available Anniversary Present Costume Pieces? They can be as rare as you like, JUST ADD THEM!!! That is all.
PS: Maybe toss in a device that turns our characters into a hologram.
Not quite, but close. Can't discuss things before they're released, but I did want to avoid misconceptions.
We can't discuss them... But can we still bounce in our seats in anticipation of these goodies?
As for the device fixes, I'm glad that there might be a possible global unbind so we can possibly make up the losses getting them in the first place... Even though I'm fairly certain people saw this fix coming down the turnpike, gas leaking and muffler burning.
Not quite, but close. Can't discuss things before they're released, but I did want to avoid misconceptions.
Just tell me it's going to be as good as NW's version so it's not super amazingly obvious that Cryptic loves them way more than us. This is our FOURTH anniversary after all. Oh and thanks for stopping by TT. IMO, you're doing what others should be doing but I have no issue giving you the thanks for stepping up to their bar.
Also, let's be clear about something Zero mentioned pages ago and ellaborate on it.
Once upon a time we had Click Upgrades. One dev removed them(with alot of other stuff). Later the same Dev changed one of them(Pheremones pet level) and then copy/pasted them all into devices. The break in standards was seen immediately and many conversations both on and off of the forums happened. Then NEVERWINTER happened(See: "New" Telepathy timegap). The problem with Legacy devices never got addressed because there was nobody here to address it. Team Lordgar was up to his gills making mini-Mega-Events with/without/WhoTheHellKnows Cryptic North. The person who converted the Legacy Devices was on NW since the game was behind schedule and neck deep in exploits.
People call the Legacy Devices Exlpoits...For the most part this is not true. There are some cases where the game content has reacted in exploit-like ways to content and I'm sure a few people took advantage but, overall, the main issue with the Legacy Devices was something that used to be unique not having the effects of being made non-unique being considered at all, despite having the PTS testers and other people say so multiple times. IMO, this is a case of the PTS process failing....and it's not even remotely the 1st time or last time.
People want to further the playerbase divide by saying this is a "PvP Only Issue" and not a "Overall Balance Issue." IMO, this is just a way to enrage PvEers against those foul dirty PvPers who were too stubborn to quit when a dev tried to kill their entire aspect of the game with On Alert. How dare they. No, this is an overall balance issue and anyone who played when the Click Upgrades existed should have seen the writing on the wall. I know multiple people, myself included, who have like 5 NPGs.....unbound....because I was afraid to use them all since myself and some others kinda knew this was coming all along(more accurately hoped it was coming).
As for the "Economic Impact" angle. You're saying that if the unbind happens that people will be able to sell spares, prices will go down, and those who are not members of the various paths to the "Ultra-Rich crowd" will be able to obtain one? Ok, I'm cool with that. Just like a real economy prices fluxuate with up and down turns in the overall market. Look on the bright side, if they hadn't gone with the unbind(which hasn't happened yet so don't get over-expecting since there's a difference between "working on" and "made it happen") then you would have made nothing and completely eaten the loss. In this case you might get the chance to recoup some of your loss while I finally pick up the Pheremones I've killed a certain dino THOUSANDS of times to not get for a pet toon I've had since 2009 who just wanted 5 dinos in total(command animals) vs. 17 dinos. Congratulations, we win.
Also, not naming names, but I see people in here tossing around the dreaded forum "F" Word(facts). I ask that if you feel compelled to use this particular word that you, please, have some to go with the use of that word. It is almost never the correct case that it's a "Fact" that one person's opinions on the forums are to have the ability to mindread the entire community.
Ok, now can we please get back to the actual testing and using this thread for what it's supposed to be about before TT has to come in here and split the entire thing into two parts?
P.S. cptcooltastic: Elder Worm Humidity Dome. This should get you the look you're after for the most part. :biggrin:
Yes it's not bad on change but really 1 year and you guys finally do something. I agree with Bacon Overlord. He said enough but I got one thing to say I do pvp a lot and there are those who goes over board using devices but furthermore with other useful devices such as how many times dino you can have or teleiosarus phermones. I can say I'm back to pveing more, so with a pvper mindset i dont just pvp all the time and look for trouble I get to do Therakiel Runs, Dark speed runs and Alert missions. So it should be in your consideration that pvpers once again ruin things but I'm pretty sure the RP and PVE crowd uses these devices as well. With these changes your game i can say is just dying more. Since the first day I started there were 15+ instance full of people and last night i logged on 3 instances barley make 30 people on what is going on. Most of all since yall like to nerf and change things such as Imbue Fc is nerf, Enrage UR is nerf and why not Ebon ruin that needs to get nerf since its a hard hitting power that harasses all builds including healing debuff from it and all pvpers equips it. I am not one to say but the healing debuff should be taken out so tanks/melee have a chance when comes to pvping. People say dmg isn't great but when everyone has good gear and mods ofc everything will crit hard, so who needs EBON RUIN not the rp players, and definitely not the pve players. Was Ebon ruin even needed? It doesn't affect boss runs but only players, and players quit so there goes your income so does this mean its destroying the funnest of the game or was there a skill power that never really should be there. All the changes and yall don't look at the unforeseen things. ER=Ebon Ruin that no AT's have a chance against and yall are removing devices that goes good for pve and many others that loves to do missions with. Don't know what to say. Sure gave this game a chance coming back but it just gets more over killed. Last and final request instead of ruining pve devices like MY DINO aka Teleiosarus phermones that i have on 4x in slot can you at least bound it from pvp and keep it on for PVE RUNS..... TY
1. Device overuse is bad unless it's my multiple pheremones.
2. PvPers ruined the game...but they didn't because other people use devices too but you bolded up the PvPer bit?
3. Nerfing stuff you like is bad and bringing about the DOOM of this game but could you please nerf Ebon Ruin to dust because it's evil and nobody uses it except those vile PvPers?
4. Paragraphs are hard but bricks of text are awesome!
1. Device overuse is bad unless it's my multiple pheremones.
2. PvPers ruined the game...but they didn't because other people use devices too but you bolded up the PvPer bit?
3. Nerfing stuff you like is bad and bringing about the DOOM of this game but could you please nerf Ebon Ruin to dust because it's evil and nobody uses it except those vile PvPers? 4. Paragraphs are hard but bricks of text are awesome!
That's just plain silly. Let's just re-read TT's post, shall we?
Actually PWE and Cryptic are on the hook for the full liability in this situation. It's not as though people were told this wasn't the way it was supposed to work, (at any point in the last YEAR) given any indication via official channels on the launcher or information website that indicated that these devices weren't being used properly and to expect a change. In fact (the F word) NOTHING was done, nothing was said and nothing was even hinted at as far as there being an issue.
Having said that now, for about the THIRD time in a post in this very thread.. let me now explain.. AGAIN.. why this has an impact on the person.
If they weren't told this was wrong or that there was an issue, then they aren't liable in this situation. Cryptic and PWE are. They allowed what they are now calling (paraphrasing) "things that were not working as intended" to go on for over a year. And, I have to say, it's odd that it would go on for that long unless we look at the motivation for this to happen. Gosh, people were buying FIVE TIMES (at minimum) as many devices.. requiring FIVE TIMES as many keys (at minimum) giving FIVE TIMES the revenue. Oh.. now it's pretty obvious what was going on.
So.. when I said LIABILITY, I mean on the part of PWE and Cryptic. Just saying "oh well" and discounting the folks that weren't breaking any rules, they weren't exploiting or abusing.. they were simply using devices as they were INTENDED to be used (sorry, but silence isn't golden, it's legally called compliance). So punishing them by taking away the use of those devices doesn't make a lick of sense.
There HAS to be some compromise. In fact, there shouldn't even be any loss on their part. Cryptic needs to come up with something that blows their socks off and makes them feel they are still getting a decent deal even though they are out tons of farming/zen and, of course, the devices themselves.
Just rolling out a patch that "fixes" something that NOBODY said was broken isn't going to fit the bill. Not at all.
Cryptic and PWE are infamous for non-communication. So, let me go ahead and suggest this get a front page spot on the launcher AND the News section of the webpage, if not a message the first time people log in that are going to be affected by this. This is, of course, if you want to keep those people as customers.
As far as what to come up with.. I've given you a couple suggestions, I'm sure other people can come up with some too. But the bottom line you have to remember: These are costumers that are being told, in some cases, that the last YEAR of saving and farming was for nothing and the items they purchased are being taken away.
If you don't go into it with that point of view.. this WILL blow up in your face. And the naysayers will do what they do best.. be shortsighted. But there's no arguing the obvious. And that's what my posts are... simply the obvious put into words.
I would really think long and hard about how to compensate them and make it something spectacular that ONLY they can have access to perhaps. Like a vendor that will exchange their bound devices (of specific types) for questionite (varying amounts based on the market value of the devices), zen, other devices (specifically ones unique to this apologetic fix from Cryptic for not taking action sooner) like vehicles, mark 3 weapons, etc.
That might sound like overkill, but when you have folks that have literally (and I know, I sold those devices to most of them) saved for months to buy two devices.. then they lose the use of one for NO REASON except laziness, poor coding, lack of attention to detail, poor QC, ineffective testing, questionable motives and, to top it all off, a 'fix' that comes in the midst of a virtual SWAMP of issues that have been around before the devices were even introduced... much older issues that really need to be fixed, but for some odd reason... this takes precedence.
Sorry, I've been an avid supporter for a LONG time.. look up some of my posts from years-past. I was the one saying.. stay positive, stay optimistic.. don't say negative things in the forums.. people will read it and leave.
And yet here we are.. about to roll out a patch that is questionable, at best.. could be called lazy fixes that couldn't result in anything other than a negative impact on the game (at best). I'd say I'm joining the other team until you guys can pull your heads out.
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LoL, I actually thought of this thing as I was typing that last bit about the Hologram. I had me one of them Humidity Dome's back when it was still a mission reward out in MI. The thing is fantastic for a ghost/phantom concept. Especially with that eye glow.
I had just tossed the Hologram Device idea out there as a fun tid bit they might want to consider, I have no actual plans for such a thing myself. But the hologram tech is pretty cool, might be amusing to use it with a Super Magnifier and join the rest of the Champions in the HQ.
Main thing was getting Sapph's clothes! With or without her in them.
Comments
Where did I mention Aphro? Could have been Cupid. Your instant assumption speaks volumes. A room get one and can I be your bridesmaid.
Ive seen Aphro in BASH. Ive seen Aphro spam ice nades like some ice nadey junkie. Hell theres even countless vids from countless PvPers that SHOW the likes of Malware and Xeno FARMING Aphro even though he/she were flinging all sorts of devices their way. The death rants are so entertaining ^_^
Hey kiddoes dont take my word for it pick any PvPers You Tube channel see for yourself the video proof is out there :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Build a toon. Use that toon, free of crutches. If you can't too bad.
I guess some people are really attached to their devices. I guess I will never understand.
How did you compete before them? Just asking...
I do kind of see the point some players have made. Unequipping the devices and turning off their BoE status for the first login would be good...If thats possible. I'm not honestly sure that it is.
On the bright side, I am motivated to try and get these devices, now that their exploit nature has been fixed. Kinda figured something along these lines would happened.
When I pvp I sometimes equip nades I aint gonna BS about it and no use in me denying it theres to many PvP vids where Trouble appears and starts flinging them around for me to start that crap.
To many people have seen me dueling infront of the powerhouse and see me spaming omi or killing mega d with a swarm of dinos.
But you know what the nerf I welcome it, its about time it needs removed.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No one said anything about PvE being hard. As for PvP, you don't even PvP or if you do, its VERY rare since I've never seen you in any PvP zone. People that don't PvP shouldn't even mention the word PvP. And PvP doesn't mean "que for ONE bash a month, get steamrolled, and say "i have pvp experience so I know what im talking about".
If you read any of my previous posts you would realize I'm all for devices being unusable in pvp instances. My main point is exactly what bacons been saying.
LOL lovehammer1 isnt his @tag . He pvps quite a lot XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I personally have no interest in mirror matches.
Well let me know his @handle in game then and we can have a real conversation. I thought I was just talking to some random pver or RP PvPer lol.
But you BASH all the time don't you? Surely you would know who it is ^__^
Well met
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
All i know is I dont ever see a @Lovehammer1 anywhere. And yes, yes I do. You should know that already TROUBLE!
Im not saying he is any good btw. Heres a hint ive ganked him a few times
But im still gonna wind you up. This game has no endgame and ima bored ^__^
But as some has asked for an unbind token in c-store would be nice my other 4 nades are gonna be useless :<
*to be fair he has ganked me also but i suck at pvp
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Lots more work to do.
But Ken vs. Ken matches are intense!
Not as much as I do...remember our PvP match?
hint: Alara...:biggrin:
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Why you ruin my guess who fun. Even less people q for Zombeh you've just narrowed the suspects, you may as well have tattooed ur name on ur head ._.
This is why I cant have nice things U__U"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
The one I use now is @Microman.
Sorry. You are 100% correct.
Yeah thats you ^__^ I have a vid awhile back were you ganked me good ( all be it a few years old). And to keep the Voodoo gal happeh again an unbind token to help cushion the blow will be welcome ^__^
95% correct
The argument just proves a point these devices caused a lot of people to give up on PvP.
The argument might have seemed silly at first but REALLY look at it ^__^ The devices are the cause of the tension between players. These devices were making PvP unfun and the nerf is welcome.
What is the most common thing said at an end of a duel besides GF? Its " Device using NOOB!"
I really do hope the devs do consider a way to unbind these items
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Cool! I used to play bash all day every day! Ahh... that was fun back then. I sure hope this nerf helps bring back some of the old magic.
This is a good point right here. Ok, here's one bug:
Bug:
Legacy devices already equipped before the changes stay equipped, allowing the use of say, 5 phermones, post changes.
Solution:
Force unequip of devices on log on, thus guaranteeing the device changes.
We made these devices available in the Drifter store because they're a lot of fun to play around with. They were never intended to be a core part of the CO experience, and they're certainly not balanced for players to have 5 of them running at once. (It's worth noting that the original items were limited to one at a time.)
Part of releasing any item into the game is watching for any unintended consequences that cause harm to the game as a whole, and then working to correct those issues. That's what we're doing in this case: Having items like this is making it more difficult and time-consuming to create new content, and hurting existing content.
I know that many of you have raised the point that these items are bound, and that you are worried that you'll end up with devices that you can't use. We are working on a way to convert your existing devices into unbound devices that you can sell, trade, etc. We'll let you know when we have more details on how that will work.
-TrailTurtle
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
This is very promising. I wish you guys all the best in figuring this out. It may balance out the tears that will undoubtedly be shed once this goes LIVE.
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And more interestingly, crash the prices by providing more supply so more people can have fun with them. Because it's now official that that was supposed to be the point, not the pay-to-win they'd turned into.
Cybermind's Digital Rain can be survived by PFF and Invuln as well. As long as you don't needlessly stand in the rain.
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AMAZEGREAT! :biggrin:
Hopefully all the folks affected by this "fix" will feel that this is an adequate compensation.
Thanks for listening, TT.
Had this just rolled out as-is, you would have had anarchy.
Althought I'm affected personally, I'm more concerned with the long term effects:
1. People are going to lose faith in PWE simply because an item that was allowed to sit on the server for over a year is now, suddenly going to change (instead of targetting the problem areas like stacking eruptions)
2. People will open boxes less often which means less revenue... Especially right away. If we, all of the sudden, have enough of the most sought-after devices on each of our accounts to put on each of our characters (and, in some cases, outfit an army), there will be very little need to open boxes. And even for the folks that don't have them, they will now only need one vs. 5. That's a big hit for you guys in terms of zen sales.
3. The difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" will be increasingly obvious now. Since the market will crash from being diluted from all of these unbound devices, folks sitting on anything more than a few thousand globals will become a thing of wonder in the months to come since everything will be dirt cheap (since nobody will be buying).
4. The "fun factor" will be seriously diluted.. now, this is short term and mostly for the folks that are going to be hit pretty hard by the device FUBAR. For those folks, my heart goes out to them and I urge them to stick around.. I'm sure PWE will come up with something better than simply unbinding something you paid 5K each for and saved for 6 months just to get... only to have it become unusable, worthless or both.
and lastly: I really hope this is the end of the 18 month patch creation process. If you guys see something broken or that you don't feel is working as intended, maybe letting us know instead of letting things go as if everything is fine... that might prevent folks from stocking up on those items and ultimately ending up quitting the game due to your errors.
After all, I've said this already a billion times, this isn't a glitch or a bug. It's not an exploit or something that only a few people knew about. These items were, for all practical purposes, working AS INTENDED. Why do I said this? Because they weren't changed and nothing was said for over a year. Which is why people invested so heavily in them and made builds around them. Was it really hurting the server (PVE)? Not really. Would it have "impacted" PVE missions? Not really. But apparently just flagging them as non-PVP wasn't an option. SO here we go again..
STRIKE THREE.. (Prototype Jets, Backups last year, now legacy devices).
I hear you, Trail Turtle.. you said they were meant to only fill a single slot. So they weren't working as intended. I get it. But try explaining that to people that took your silence as validation of the fact that they WERE meant to work that way. Granted, there were obvious exceptions like the perma-godmode with the eruptions that I just heard about today. But you're really not in a position to punish those folks either.
What WOULD be the perfect scenario? I would say:
RESOLUTION: The most expensive device (and most rare) would be pheremones. This device has become a staple in the game, like it or not. People have ventured into "pet builds" because of them, etc. This is going to be where you're going to have the most issues with players. In some cases people paid 5-6,000 globals EACH for them. So if you're going to make them non-stackable. I recommend doing something for the players (beyond unbinding them). Make all the pheremones that have already been found/bound summon 3x the normal amount of hatchlings from a single device. That's meeting both sides halfway.. the folks with 5 pheremones lose out, but still can summon SOME hatchlings, but they aren't going from a max of 15 to max of 3. The difference with summoning off a single device is: Where you were 5x more likely to summon a dino every 10 seconds, now you're only 1x as likely, even though you'll get 3x as many as you would with a single device, you're still getting far less than if you had 5 due to only having one chance at it instead of 5. So there are definitely disadvantages. But the folks with only a few pheremones won't really feel cheated and like something they BOUGHT from you is being taken away... even though it is.
I don't know of any other issues with stacked devices that really was causing an issue... but making the rest of them on a shared 30 second timer would probably work, so I think that's the right thing to do.
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Are contained in the new boxes, this may change your view on opening boxes.
But that is me just being me: Optimistic. (It's how I got through the 10 month ordeal with Telepathy.)
I could be wrong in your eyes or in the eyes of others, but the way I see it; As long as there is *something* in the boxes people want, be it Legion or Devices or Costume Pieces, there will be sales.
So far, I personally have not looked in a lockbox and seen something I didn't want (from the description of it)
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As you all know, these devices used to be drops that bound on pick up if I remember correctly. There was NO WAY to have more then 1 on a single character before. This is how they were built, and how they should have always worked. Those that have been here before ON ALERT know all this, and therefore knew this would(and SHOULD) eventually be fixed.
I'm just glad I didn't waste any salvage on the devices yet myself. Still trying to get the costume pieces.
As for this FIX lowering Key Sales, I HIGHLY doubt it will have that much of an impact. Right now Lockboxes are still the ONLY way to obtain...
*Transform Devices
*Specific Costume Pieces
*Specific Vehicles
*Legion Gear
Not to mention the BEST/FASTEST way to collect Mods, and high ranking Mods to boot. I do wish they also included 1 Safeguard with each stack of 5 Mods though.
I used to protest all Gamble Bags/Boxes with a passion. I hadn't opened up a single one since the Malvan boxes upon my return to the game after an extended break. I'm sure glad I caved and gave them a try. They do in fact give you quite a lot for you money now. It took Cryptic quite a long time to perfect them, but I feel like they finally got them JUST RIGHT.
So I don't know about anyone else, but I plan on continuing to purchase up keys whenever I'm able too.
These changes are GREAT for the game as a whole. Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see what other fixes we have coming soon. :biggrin:
^ This right here. Also a fantastic reason to continue opening boxes. I am glad someone mentioned this.
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That's just plain silly. Let's just re-read TT's post, shall we?
This bit covers most, if not all of the important points.
They were supposed to be a way for people to continue to access fun toys that had been removed.
They were NOT supposed to be progression, or pay to win.
The precedent had been set for one at a time.
This covers the rest of it.
With this part being the crux. They were warping the development process as is, so clearly they needed to be fixed.
None of this would not be the response if they were concerned about Legacy Devices being primary revenue drivers.
You know what? I'm happy they had time to fix this, because anything they can do to make new content easier to make is outstanding in my book.
RIP Caine
Not quite, but close. Can't discuss things before they're released, but I did want to avoid misconceptions.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
PS: Maybe toss in a device that turns our characters into a hologram.
[Waits patiently.]
Want.
Deliciously nutritious!
We can't discuss them... But can we still bounce in our seats in anticipation of these goodies?
As for the device fixes, I'm glad that there might be a possible global unbind so we can possibly make up the losses getting them in the first place... Even though I'm fairly certain people saw this fix coming down the turnpike, gas leaking and muffler burning.
Just tell me it's going to be as good as NW's version so it's not super amazingly obvious that Cryptic loves them way more than us. This is our FOURTH anniversary after all. Oh and thanks for stopping by TT. IMO, you're doing what others should be doing but I have no issue giving you the thanks for stepping up to their bar.
Also, let's be clear about something Zero mentioned pages ago and ellaborate on it.
Once upon a time we had Click Upgrades. One dev removed them(with alot of other stuff). Later the same Dev changed one of them(Pheremones pet level) and then copy/pasted them all into devices. The break in standards was seen immediately and many conversations both on and off of the forums happened. Then NEVERWINTER happened(See: "New" Telepathy timegap). The problem with Legacy devices never got addressed because there was nobody here to address it. Team Lordgar was up to his gills making mini-Mega-Events with/without/WhoTheHellKnows Cryptic North. The person who converted the Legacy Devices was on NW since the game was behind schedule and neck deep in exploits.
People call the Legacy Devices Exlpoits...For the most part this is not true. There are some cases where the game content has reacted in exploit-like ways to content and I'm sure a few people took advantage but, overall, the main issue with the Legacy Devices was something that used to be unique not having the effects of being made non-unique being considered at all, despite having the PTS testers and other people say so multiple times. IMO, this is a case of the PTS process failing....and it's not even remotely the 1st time or last time.
People want to further the playerbase divide by saying this is a "PvP Only Issue" and not a "Overall Balance Issue." IMO, this is just a way to enrage PvEers against those foul dirty PvPers who were too stubborn to quit when a dev tried to kill their entire aspect of the game with On Alert. How dare they. No, this is an overall balance issue and anyone who played when the Click Upgrades existed should have seen the writing on the wall. I know multiple people, myself included, who have like 5 NPGs.....unbound....because I was afraid to use them all since myself and some others kinda knew this was coming all along(more accurately hoped it was coming).
As for the "Economic Impact" angle. You're saying that if the unbind happens that people will be able to sell spares, prices will go down, and those who are not members of the various paths to the "Ultra-Rich crowd" will be able to obtain one? Ok, I'm cool with that. Just like a real economy prices fluxuate with up and down turns in the overall market. Look on the bright side, if they hadn't gone with the unbind(which hasn't happened yet so don't get over-expecting since there's a difference between "working on" and "made it happen") then you would have made nothing and completely eaten the loss. In this case you might get the chance to recoup some of your loss while I finally pick up the Pheremones I've killed a certain dino THOUSANDS of times to not get for a pet toon I've had since 2009 who just wanted 5 dinos in total(command animals) vs. 17 dinos. Congratulations, we win.
Also, not naming names, but I see people in here tossing around the dreaded forum "F" Word(facts). I ask that if you feel compelled to use this particular word that you, please, have some to go with the use of that word. It is almost never the correct case that it's a "Fact" that one person's opinions on the forums are to have the ability to mindread the entire community.
Ok, now can we please get back to the actual testing and using this thread for what it's supposed to be about before TT has to come in here and split the entire thing into two parts?
P.S. cptcooltastic: Elder Worm Humidity Dome. This should get you the look you're after for the most part. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
1. Device overuse is bad unless it's my multiple pheremones.
2. PvPers ruined the game...but they didn't because other people use devices too but you bolded up the PvPer bit?
3. Nerfing stuff you like is bad and bringing about the DOOM of this game but could you please nerf Ebon Ruin to dust because it's evil and nobody uses it except those vile PvPers?
4. Paragraphs are hard but bricks of text are awesome!
That about cover it? :rolleyes:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
So, we get the Infinite Balls and Stuff at 5th Anniversary.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I'm amazed you actually read through that O_o.
Actually PWE and Cryptic are on the hook for the full liability in this situation. It's not as though people were told this wasn't the way it was supposed to work, (at any point in the last YEAR) given any indication via official channels on the launcher or information website that indicated that these devices weren't being used properly and to expect a change. In fact (the F word) NOTHING was done, nothing was said and nothing was even hinted at as far as there being an issue.
Having said that now, for about the THIRD time in a post in this very thread.. let me now explain.. AGAIN.. why this has an impact on the person.
If they weren't told this was wrong or that there was an issue, then they aren't liable in this situation. Cryptic and PWE are. They allowed what they are now calling (paraphrasing) "things that were not working as intended" to go on for over a year. And, I have to say, it's odd that it would go on for that long unless we look at the motivation for this to happen. Gosh, people were buying FIVE TIMES (at minimum) as many devices.. requiring FIVE TIMES as many keys (at minimum) giving FIVE TIMES the revenue. Oh.. now it's pretty obvious what was going on.
So.. when I said LIABILITY, I mean on the part of PWE and Cryptic. Just saying "oh well" and discounting the folks that weren't breaking any rules, they weren't exploiting or abusing.. they were simply using devices as they were INTENDED to be used (sorry, but silence isn't golden, it's legally called compliance). So punishing them by taking away the use of those devices doesn't make a lick of sense.
There HAS to be some compromise. In fact, there shouldn't even be any loss on their part. Cryptic needs to come up with something that blows their socks off and makes them feel they are still getting a decent deal even though they are out tons of farming/zen and, of course, the devices themselves.
Just rolling out a patch that "fixes" something that NOBODY said was broken isn't going to fit the bill. Not at all.
Cryptic and PWE are infamous for non-communication. So, let me go ahead and suggest this get a front page spot on the launcher AND the News section of the webpage, if not a message the first time people log in that are going to be affected by this. This is, of course, if you want to keep those people as customers.
As far as what to come up with.. I've given you a couple suggestions, I'm sure other people can come up with some too. But the bottom line you have to remember: These are costumers that are being told, in some cases, that the last YEAR of saving and farming was for nothing and the items they purchased are being taken away.
If you don't go into it with that point of view.. this WILL blow up in your face. And the naysayers will do what they do best.. be shortsighted. But there's no arguing the obvious. And that's what my posts are... simply the obvious put into words.
I would really think long and hard about how to compensate them and make it something spectacular that ONLY they can have access to perhaps. Like a vendor that will exchange their bound devices (of specific types) for questionite (varying amounts based on the market value of the devices), zen, other devices (specifically ones unique to this apologetic fix from Cryptic for not taking action sooner) like vehicles, mark 3 weapons, etc.
That might sound like overkill, but when you have folks that have literally (and I know, I sold those devices to most of them) saved for months to buy two devices.. then they lose the use of one for NO REASON except laziness, poor coding, lack of attention to detail, poor QC, ineffective testing, questionable motives and, to top it all off, a 'fix' that comes in the midst of a virtual SWAMP of issues that have been around before the devices were even introduced... much older issues that really need to be fixed, but for some odd reason... this takes precedence.
Sorry, I've been an avid supporter for a LONG time.. look up some of my posts from years-past. I was the one saying.. stay positive, stay optimistic.. don't say negative things in the forums.. people will read it and leave.
And yet here we are.. about to roll out a patch that is questionable, at best.. could be called lazy fixes that couldn't result in anything other than a negative impact on the game (at best). I'd say I'm joining the other team until you guys can pull your heads out.
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Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
Come see me on steam (be friends, drink fine wines, clink glasses and KILL STUFF ONLINE!)
LoL, I actually thought of this thing as I was typing that last bit about the Hologram. I had me one of them Humidity Dome's back when it was still a mission reward out in MI. The thing is fantastic for a ghost/phantom concept. Especially with that eye glow.
I had just tossed the Hologram Device idea out there as a fun tid bit they might want to consider, I have no actual plans for such a thing myself. But the hologram tech is pretty cool, might be amusing to use it with a Super Magnifier and join the rest of the Champions in the HQ.
Main thing was getting Sapph's clothes! With or without her in them.