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FC.31.20130824.3 PTS Update

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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    By the way, if your butt ends up hurting, you are doing it wrong.

    Just sayin.
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,522 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    By the way, if your butt ends up hurting, you are doing it wrong.

    Just sayin.

    lol



    .
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Devices were only 1/4th of PvP's problem. Legion gear being 50%(quarry-aopm only passive choices, enormous defenses high damage) and 4 spec trees exploit being the rest 1/4th. If you didn't use legion gears, you'd need devices and spec exploit to win. Provided your opponent uses none of those that is.

    Now, diversity in PvP is challenged again. But among 20 people, only 5 of whom compete at a high level, it won't make much difference.
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  • nesnonesno Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Nerf the devices, great, IT'S NEEDED. But don't come on these forums and tell me it's my fault and everyone should of known better. What I'm confronting here is fanboism, telling everyone in the forums it's our responsibility because Cryptic / PWE did not think of or spend one IOTA of time with this game to even consider the consequences of their implementation actions. No effort, ever! And its ALWAYS the customer that have to bear burden for them while they funnel our money into other games. I'm so completely sick of the obvious cheap, Chinese online scam we call this game and it makes me sick to see people defend that.
  • nesnonesno Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    wait a FOUR SPEC TREE EXPLOIT!?

    this is why I don't really pvp, people. too many people abuse the game to literally cheat it.

    It's 5, there is a way to get 5 spec trees. Your behind on your exploitive knowledge.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,522 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    nesno2 wrote: »
    Nerf the devices, great, IT'S NEEDED. But don't come on these forums and tell me it's my fault and everyone should of known better. What I'm confronting here is fanboism, telling everyone in the forums it's our responsibility because Cryptic / PWE did not think of or spend one IOTA of time with this game to even consider the consequences of their implementation actions. No effort, ever! And its ALWAYS the customer that have to bear burden for them while they funnel our money into other games. I'm so completely sick of the obvious cheap, Chinese online scam we call this game and it makes me sick to see people defend that.

    That would mean that I believe that they had compitance to even notice what they were doing with the devices, which I don't. I believe that they found out about the consequences of the devices when it was reported by players, but they ignored them because they already had their bugets set for a time and had no resources to spend on the fixes.

    I doubt it was a high priority fix for the time, until now, since they have released some content, which many have blasted them for neglecting last year.

    Also, as for us the customer having to bear the burden while they funnel our money into other games...that has been how it is since the beginning. First it was STO, then it was NWO, sadley that is somthing that will never change. Many of us have cried foul for years, they (PWE/Cryptic) simply do not care. This game is a 3rd class citizen int he country of Cryptic. We have a couple of Devs who obviously care about the game as they at least bother to comment with the community every now and then, and we have TT(who is not a dev) but even if we have Devs who love this game, it does little when the company they work for could care less.

    "I'm so completely sick of the obvious cheap, Chinese online scam we call this game and it makes me sick to see people defend that."
    Check out the thread about the new Vehicle and Lockboxes, you are not alone.
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  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 825 Arc User
    edited September 2013

    Do I think this should have been addressed a long time ago? Absolutely. Should it be left the same because it wasn't? Hell no, by that logic we should never get another patch or bug fix, because people have gotten used to the bugs. Games change man, this is not a static environment.

    Basically this.

    Anyone who assumed this would go on forever is living in De-Nile


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • blueionstormzblueionstormz Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Is there any chance for a roll back on the revitalize nerf?

    From what I understand, the adjustment to revitalize was made because of people using multiple legacy devices such as eruption, etc and cycling through them via revitalize.

    Now that legacy devices are becoming unique items with shared cooldown, they would no longer be used in the same way as before with revitalize.

    So why not restore the original function of revitalize to proc every 2 seconds instead of every 6 seconds?
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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 921 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Ok, Vixy wins. There is little to no hope of this thread getting back on track so I sincerely hope the Destroids don't make us all lvl 1. :wink:

    I think the main dissagreement I have with Nesno's perspective, once you get past the obvious tact issues, is that it almost sounds(correct me if I'm wrong) just a lil too "tin foil hat conspiracy" to me. I do not, honestly, believe that PWE is the villian in this no more than I used to believe that Atari was the big bad beforehand(other than forced unrealistic deadlines which were actually documented). I'm more in line to point the finger squarely at Cryptic since they're the common denominator throughout this entire process(as well as others like it).

    And yet there's the other longterm issue I've always suspected. That the communication between the consumer and company is not only abysmal but that it's also that way within the actual company itself. There have been many changes and almost-changes(See: EB/Block Pass V1) in which you would almost have to step back for a second and ask where is the person in the chain who says,"Ok, so you want to...wait...that's a horrible idea. We should defeinately not do that." I've been in conversations with multiple devs over the years who had to go because "They had a meeting" but, seriously, what happens at these meetings that leads to some of these decisions.

    From what I consider a reliable source(who shall remain unnamed) when PWE moved in they looked at Cryptic and said,"Boy, we sure do like Grab Bags/Lockboxes. We'll leave the details to you but..make it happen." That's why, if you look really hard, there are actually differences in how these systems work in Cryptic Games vs. PWE Games.

    As for the lack of...alot, well if you're a vet then the whole "Neverwinter Vacation" thing shouldn't have even come as a shock because it was just the "STO Vacation" that took longer because NW was in much worse shape at the time than STO was at the same time. Now this is partly PWE's fault because NW wasn't originally the more traditional MMO that we see now. It was more of an "Online Multiplayer Game" and PWE basically said,"Uhm no, make it a MMO," So this caused multiple issues ontop of the issues caused by what I consider to be the basic flaw in the design of all Cryptic Games. That being the "Cryptic Engine" itself since it seems like they don't actually do updates to the base template. This is why some of the old old old CO bugs that have been fixed here popped up in NW(See: Pets not zoning correctly).

    As for the "Fault" issue in the playerbase. Come on now. I'm not saying that the players should suffer unnecessarily for using what was provided to them and I do believe this unbind scenario is the correct solution to mostly correct that but how many times have you been in a situation in this game where you knew that something wasn't working right and would eventually be repaired? Now some people, as is human nature, tend to ride out that wave and just "go with it" until they can't anymore but that comes with the knowledge that you're basically on borrowed time. It's like PvP in 2009 when people were build swapping to use multiple passives. Some people road that train to infamy but, in the end, they knew the tracks ran out eventually on it....and it did when they fixed it.

    As for the monetary implications of this. Call me old fashioned but if you spent 500 bucks of actual cash on ANYTHING in this game then...uhm...er...a....I got nothing. That just seems mind blowingly foolish to me but it's your money and your right to spend it in that way. I could blow cash in this game like that but, honestly, I don't see the point to spending more than 10 bucks a month in this game for what I get in return. Now if there were more things in the Z-Store that appealed to me(See: some freakin costume sets) then sure, you may now have more of my money. In a nutshell my "P2W" is Freeform and I'm just fine so long as I have that.

    As for this game's economy...you want to talk about blind. A large percentage of this game's playerbase complain about the chat ban system which was designed to stop gold sellers...unless that goldseller is the officially sanctioned goldseller of all Cryptic Games. Alot of people I encounter in zonechat are using actual money on this key thing. Due to the Silver Limitations those who chose, for whatever reason, to remain silver are almost forced to use keys in some aspect(even if they used Globals instead of cash to obtain them). Where's the outcry for this aspect? IMO, the economy is one of the very few things that On Alert did contribute towards since they nerfed the terror out of the Alert Boss Unlock Drop Rates and added unlocks to the game which are pretty rare(See: Kiga, Vikorin, and Bronze King) and people are buying those when they're presented in most cases for what I would consider pretty obscene amounts. Sure the price on Legacy Devices might do down somewhat when the unbind happens...but that's just how the markets work. It's like people selling those FE Helms for high prices on day one and then they become dirt cheap/common.

    In the end it's not so much, IMO, a matter of "Buyer beware" because this is a MMO and things do change. It's more of an issue of "Buyer don't go insanely overboard." It's ok to buy something but the internet is littered with the corpses of horror stories about people who went too far. Don't become another number. Please Buy Responsibly. :cool:
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Don't EVER expect Cryptic to unnerf something they have purposefully nerfed. Ever.

    The only way for them to change that absolute is for them to lower the cooldowns of the Backups or remove their shared cooldowns.
  • tachyon10tachyon10 Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think we need to do away with free forms next.... That being able to pick any power stuff is really unbalancing pvp...
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 921 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Yes, because this is totally a PvP* issue...:rolleyes:

    *That thing a few stubborn die-hards cling onto after deliberate steps were taken to murder it with On Alert.
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  • tachyon10tachyon10 Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    crosschan wrote: »
    Yes, because this is totally a PvP* issue...:rolleyes:

    *That thing a few stubborn die-hards cling onto after deliberate steps were taken to murder it with On Alert.

    Yea, it kinda is a pvp issue. I don't recall anyone ever raging when my 4 eruption healer was the last one standing in gravitar and rez'd the whole team... I actually think that they were very appreciative and commented to that effect.

    Or when I pull out the five Dino's in alert because there are two or three guys below level 10 in there and it's the only way to beat it, which happens a lot. Theres something pwe could work on.

    It's only when the pvp community loses the edge in their ability to exploit power combinations and insider tricks that you hear that there is anything wrong. So in that sense it is a pvp issue.

    I am saying this tongue in cheek, but there is truth to it. Just don't take it too seriously.

    There are bigger issues in this game. The biggest is the fact that 90% of he new players just ride alert teams to level 40 and never learn anything about the game or how to play. No idea what content is out there, etc. heck they might not be able to find the powerhouse... And boy they are great in a PUG
  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tachyon10 wrote: »
    Yea, it kinda is a pvp issue. I don't recall anyone ever raging when my 4 eruption healer was the last one standing in gravitar and rez'd the whole team... I actually think that they were very appreciative and commented to that effect.

    Your first example alone emphasizes your hypocrisy.
  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    oobtree wrote: »
    Your first example alone emphasizes your hypocrisy.

    Your comment reveals that your targetting is off.

    WE DID NOT DO THIS TOO EACH OTHER. PWE IS DOING THIS. THIS IS A DECISION MADE BY A CORPORATION. WE ARE NOT EVIL. PVPERS ARE NOT EVIL. RPERS ARE NOT EVIL. PVERS ARE NOT EVIL. AND LASTLY PWE IS NOT EVIL. THEY ARE A CORPORATION THAT LIKE MOST OTHERS DO NOT SEE PEOPLE AT THE END OF THE DAY AS ANYTHING MORE THAN A NUMBER ABOVE A BOTTOM LINE.

    Lords have mercy.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence (or simple human error).


    This is not a situation where Cryptic set out to scam their customers by selling OP devices and then purposefully waiting until sales had peaked before altering them. This is a situation where someone messed up and implemented them in a broken/OP fashion and did not catch the problem until there just was not time available to be budgeted for a fix. They are just now getting around to fixing something that adversely affects the game.

    That said, something of this sort left in game for a year is no longer a bug, it is a feature. Once it has become a part of the functionality of the game and the company continues, without a word to indicate that the element in question is a bug that will be fixed someday, to profit by its existence...it is a feature.

    The part that Cryptic should consider to be inappropriate is not that the team made a mistake in implementing the devices, people make mistakes, and not that it took so long to fix the mistake, we know that the game runs on a shoestring budget, but rather that the fact that they perceived of the functionality of the devices to be broken or bugged was not communicated to the community for so long.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    That said, something of this sort left in game for a year is no longer a bug, it is a feature.

    I now know all the glitches in Nemesis System are features. It's kind of neat, you get to think that theres a bigger plot behind whole shabang.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This thread is composed mostly of:derailleur_zpsfe38dcfe.jpg
    (thought I was going to use a train, didn'tcha?)
    .

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  • flamingbunnymanflamingbunnyman Posts: 1,995 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    That's actually a GREAT analogy, because that device exists to take the chain off one gear, and mive it to another.
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  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    that would spell the end of CO. why do you think people play this game? the CUSTOMIZATION. go worship your holy trinity of healer/tank/dps somewhere else.

    Why play a MMO if u gonna solo it through?

    I know a single player game that offers customization, it's called The Wims.
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  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    seriously, I know you have enough sense to figure out that that guys idea is bad. you should ALWAYS have the option to solo. forcing teaming is terrible game design for any mmo.

    You have difficulty spotting obvious sarcasm don't ya?
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  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    I now know all the glitches in Nemesis System are features. It's kind of neat, you get to think that theres a bigger plot behind whole shabang.

    Yeah, kind of expected that comment.

    I think that there is a very real distinction between an existing system with bugs that prevent it from working and a device implemented to work in a specific manner. I don't have any of the devices. Don't really have a horse in this race. I just happen to see and recognize validity in both sides of the argument.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • variatasvariatas Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Well that was weird, this isn't the thread I clicked reply in....
  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    no, I just am used to the sarcasm from that particular poster being slightly more obvious.

    :'-(

    NOOOOOOO

    You just killed me now.

    btw game is from electronic farts. Try it.
  • kemmicalskemmicals Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    variatas wrote: »
    Well that was weird, this isn't the thread I clicked reply in....

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  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    Reading this threat let me tell you, there are far more ways to encourage teaming without forcing the holy trinity down of healer/tank/damage down everyones throats. In fact, any game doing that to me is complete crap and not doing anything new :). Buffs/debuffs and crowd control, baby!

    Yeah I know right? Defiance iniquity demolish tgm?

    Team with those. I know I won't in pve.
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  • cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    If there are players currently running around with 5 Spec Trees like I've been reading lately then I think that's something that needs to get looked into PRONTO!

    I don't know how to do this myself nor do I want to. I'm just tired of hearing about all these exploits. Let's squash this stuff already.
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  • shadowzero66shadowzero66 Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    wait, whats the iniquity for? :confused:

    Probably meant to say Conviction.
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  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The guaranteed fraction of your health restored and it doesn't conflict with AO and AD.
  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    wait, whats the iniquity for? :confused:

    Healing other iniquity/2gm/demolish/defiance toons when they get low on hp!

    :eek:
  • stergiosmanstergiosman Posts: 717 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Probably meant to say Conviction.

    Conviction....
    Iniquity

    Not that bad at spelling, sry.
    :eek:
  • nesnonesno Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    A note: Be thankful, exploiters, that your not being banned for life, like some games have done.

    Banned for what? You need to direct that unchecked ignorance back to the people that designed and implemented the devices into the game for profit in the first place. The players played the game as it was sold to them.

    Your a prime example of the idiots who give PWE a free ride while they sell you fake perfume and knock off shoes. At least in china town you know your getting scammed.

    -Xeno


    -
  • enixonbbenixonbb Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    laughinxan wrote: »
    A note: Be thankful, exploiters, that your not being banned for life, like some games have done.

    What game has banned players for using items the game itself has sold to them in the way the game lets them? :confused:

    I'm trying to imagine the game message a company would make for this scenario...

    "Attention Example Corp. Players It's come to our attention we did not make "Super Item X"s with any cool downs or equip limits, but are going to ban anyone that thought to get two or more and use them without self imposing such a limit on themselves."



    5 Pheromones or Eruptions Cheese? Heck yes. An Exploit? Heck no. If cheese was ban worthy then every power nerf would come with a mass banning.


    then again I had heard The Old Republic was apparently banning players for going to higher level zones and sneaking past Mobs to get at chests for high level items to sell off, but take that with /several/ grains of salt
  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    enixonbb wrote: »
    What game has banned players for using items the game itself has sold to them in the way the game lets them? :confused:

    I thought long and hard about this one. It was a tossup, between The Old Republic and Maplestory. One requires more effort out of the player and abuses the game's mechanics and the other is just straight up random ban because of a faulty system when you literally used the item in the correct way.

    So, Maplestory won. Go ahead, use those Cash Shop pots and get yourself flagged for cheating and if the planets align then you will become perma-banned. Player Reports help the process but are not needed for you can literally get banned for using an item sold by the cash shop in the correct manner it was meant to be used in.

    Edit: Or better yet, Furcadia. Do I need to explain anything more than the name?
  • trailturtletrailturtle Posts: 2,291 Perfect World Employee
    edited September 2013
    While this thread is an interesting and valid discussion, it shouldn't be happening in a thread specifically about a PTS change... feel free to restart it in another thread, but I'm locking this thread.
This discussion has been closed.