There is nothing stopping me from not dequipping my existing 5 Teleiosaurus Pheromones once this patch hits live, and they still stack on top of each other.
Teleiosaurus Pheromones need to be changed so they do not stack.
only thing I'm worried about is vikorin actually needs a dammed bug fix. his knocks don't stack resistance on you, I don't even run his lair anymore, not a chance of winning. well maybe if I tried again and again 500 times but dying in this game isn't something I like to do repeatedly.
THIS GUY TRASHES TANKS WHO HAVE SOLOED GRAVITAR
It's not vikorin that does this, it's the statues in the corners of the room.
You absolutely must not aggro them ever, if you do, you may as well just reset the instance. Basically, just turn off all travel powers and never move from standing on the staircase platform. If vikorin hits you with the disable simply go to the bottom of the staircase (There's a blindspot right on the bottom step.), but no further. Break free, then go back up to the top of the stairs.
Also, never evereverever use ANY pets ever for any reason ever. They WILL aggro the statues at some point in the fight.
Granted all of the above is bull**** and those statues should be fixed, but considering we've got a clear statement that lair reviews are cancelled until further notice... I doubt a fix will happen.
Since they are being altered to level 40 (provided you ARE level 40 when activating them) I would say perhaps increase their duration? If they are going to be doing level 40 damage (which is presumably not higher than other level 40s or 40s without gear) then they should perhaps have their summon time increased by a sizeable amount.
NOTE: I say this on the premise of not actually testing what they deal damage wise as level 40s. If their damage is roughly the same then no summon time should be increased. However I have a feeling 20 levels will significantly alter their damage.
you don't need a whole lair review to fix one stupid bug...
Well, since Vikorin is inside the lair...and is part of it, in order to fix any bugs regarding the lair itself they would need to touch the lairs code, which they have said before is being held together just about, or something of that nature.
The only thing I see here that I have an issue with is the same thing you did to us just around this time last year with the backups when you made them all share the same cooldown and not be affected by CD reduction gear/skills/specs.
You're taking things that already exist in the game (that aren't broken, glitched or being exploited through some bug that nobody else knows about) and making them unusable.
Everyone that has more than one eruption, Pheremones, etc.. will now have wasted investment of zen, time, keys, etc.
My thought is.. if you plan to keep this game alive, it might be best to focus on the things that are, indeed, game breaking. Such as the plethora of other game glitches, issues, exploits, problems, etc. rather than punish the people that have played the game the way it was meant to be played, invested time and money based on the rules as they were and now are being told they are just SOL for no particular reason.
I could see it if this was an issue like with the surge devices being exploited. People bought them from the AH, sure. But they weren't SUPPOSED to be glitched. But they were. So you had a leg to stand on when you fixed them across the board.
But what you're doing here is punishing folks that are using devices as they were supposed to be used, that invested the time and money to get them and use them... Granted, some things like the Eruption could be called exploitable if someone has a mass amount of them. However, that's what the game mechanics allowed to happen. They weren't abusing some form of exploit or bug. I.E. They don't deserved to be punished by making all but one of their devices unusable. If they weren't meant to be stacked (E.G. Pheremones) then they wouldn't have stacked...
You need to find another way to implement this. Perhaps a grandfather clause or find a way to not irritate 90% of the playerbase with a single update when you're already on thin ice.
As I said.. there are plenty of other things you could be working on.
My only real suggestion would be to take away the ability to use devices in PVP. That should take care of 99% of the problems. But punishing the rest of us when we were following the rules and doing what we were supposed to...
Not a good thing to do on your second patch in the last 3 years.
Personally I still have a bad taste in my mouth at having a full set of 6 perm backups from last year that I can only use one at a time and only every 30 minutes.
My two cents, for what it's worth. You're not changing things that are glitched or bugged. You're changing things people PAID for and paid lots of zen to even get a chance to win, or paid thousands of globals for BECAUSE they worked as they were advertised, as they said on the device and as they were allowed by the game mechanics. This is a very very slippery slope.
Edit: I guess my real heartache here is the precedence here is allowing people to buy things to use them (See Also: Prototype jets) and then change them after they are purchased. Expect a LOT of resistance on this one. Like I said.. just make devices unusable in PVP and 99% of the whining will disappear.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS 100%.
Make devices unusable in PvP zones and end it there. If my pet build gets messed up in any way after I spent so much time and money on it. I'm leaving the game for good and I will gaunrantee you I wont be the only one.
I've sat through nerf after nerf, and only 1 MAYBE 2 buffs in the past 1.5 years. First imbue, now this. F that noise.
I would say that the Dev Team should not only consider but actually put in motion an
- UNBIND TOKEN - This would be account wide and would allow players to unbind multiple Device types.
This is going to be a messy patch, not everyone is going to be as thrilled with this. I am only affected on one of my toons by this change but it will still be a little annoying, even more so for others.
I would request that you take into consideration the idea of an unbind token for such a change. It would certainly help. A lot.
Ow man, I should post a pic of my toons' inventory. I had 4 nades, 3 eruptions and 15 injections on Sters, 5 nades on Lyumix and 2 more eruptions on Comte...the nerf is needed tho, but i hope we will be able to un bind some of those things...I have enough to gear a looooot of toons ;-p
Reduce the ridiculously large CD on the (practically) useless ones. NORMALIZE them, much like you did with (most of) the Blood Moon devices, to 3 minutes.
Energy Absorbing Crashsuit. A pittance of energy every 30 seconds .... I guess. I don't own one, but the Tooltip doesn't inspire me to use one. Ever. Toss it a bone to make it worthwhile. Such as giving the player energy a percentage of energy when they've been hit, once every X seconds.
Bug
Neuroelectric Pulse Generator (in addition to the other suggestions) should be tagged as MELEE and buffed/nerfed accordingly. It IS only 4m, which is the OLD melee range.
Bug
Tooltip for many DEVICES, especially Blood Moon devices, show a reduced time, based on Int, but retain the original maximum cooldown. Fix one or the other, ie either allow the CD to be affected by CD reduction or fix the Tooltip to say what the TRUE cooldown is.
.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Oh there is one unmentioned change to shared cooldown devices. They are no longer affected by cooldown bonuses so they are now like Bloodmoon devices - max cooldown despite what tooltip says.
P.S. NPG is buffed by Melee role. But it is not buffed by any Form stacks.
It's not vikorin that does this, it's the statues in the corners of the room.
You absolutely must not aggro them ever, if you do, you may as well just reset the instance. Basically, just turn off all travel powers and never move from standing on the staircase platform. If vikorin hits you with the disable simply go to the bottom of the staircase (There's a blindspot right on the bottom step.), but no further. Break free, then go back up to the top of the stairs.
Also, never evereverever use ANY pets ever for any reason ever. They WILL aggro the statues at some point in the fight.
Granted all of the above is bull**** and those statues should be fixed, but considering we've got a clear statement that lair reviews are cancelled until further notice... I doubt a fix will happen.
I've soloed Vikorin multiple times on multiple characters. Always with my travel power on, usually with pets out. I've found that magic spot a couple times, but I've never been able to reliable stay there, so I always spend a fair amount of the fight getting knocked about.
I'd love to see the statues changed, at least so that they stack knock resistance, if nothing else, but that lair isn't nearly as bad as a handful of people make it out to be.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
[Champions Online 4th Anniversary Lockbox] is the new box in town.
Can we get some pictures of the following please?
[Become Samurai Robot] <---oooh :eek:
[AV-55A Martinez Vehicle] <-- Sounds like a land based Vehicle..is this true?
[Sharkfin Costume Pieces] <--interesting...
Also..what is an "[Anniversary Party Favour]"?
Thanks!
EDIT: Back Up Devices are scaling down to level 40 correctly so yay! But can we have their CD adjusted to 15 mins at the very most? If 15 mins please remove shared CD.
EDIT 2: Samurai Robot wouldn't happen to look a bit like the Silver Samurai from The Wolverine would it?
I... wait.. what? Legacy devices finally sharing a cooldown?! and only one of each can be equipped?!
....about time lol :thumbs up:
now.. about removing their use in hero games like other devices....
Hell, I'll still farm for those back up devices still.. got a champion in mind for each toon.
The only devices not allowed in the hero games are become devices which completely alter the look and functionality of your character. Other devices (for example the blood moon devices) are in fact allowed in the hero games.
Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer should also be on a shared cooldown....at the moment it is not.
It seems to me like the powers that were targeted seem to be ones that were either exploited or deemed as too power (either by itself or used in conjunction with the other devices.) Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer is a weak hold that does no damage. It does not debuff who it is used upon, nor does it buff the person who uses it. These are probably the reasons why it was not added to the shared cooldown list.
Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer is a weak hold that does no damage. It does not debuff who it is used upon, nor does it buff the person who uses it. These are probably the reasons why it was not added to the shared cooldown list.
As far as holds go, it's really strong - you check this by looking at its duration when holding a mob or checking the amount of breakfree damage required to get out if you are being held.
But holds don't matter in pve, unless they work on bosses (see Ice Grenades).
I think the reason shared cd items are in the list of changes is that they are the ones being complained about by players.
As far as holds go, it's really strong - you check this by looking at its duration when holding a mob or checking the amount of breakfree damage required to get out if you are being held.
But holds don't matter in pve, unless they work on bosses (see Ice Grenades).
I think the reason shared cd items are in the list of changes is that they are the ones being complained about by players.
I apologize, I should have been more clear. When I said "it is a weak hold" I meant in comparison to other holds that are similar to it. Of course how long a mob is held will depend on the level and strength of the mob (and how long a character is held will depend on level,hold resistance,and z mashing), but the base holding potential of Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer is less than (for example) Ego Hold or Containment Field. It does balance out since those two holds have 50ft ranges while the Inducer's range is longer, however, the "hold itself" is weaker.
As far as holds go, it's really strong - you check this by looking at its duration when holding a mob or checking the amount of breakfree damage required to get out if you are being held.
But holds don't matter in pve, unless they work on bosses (see Ice Grenades).
I think the reason shared cd items are in the list of changes is that they are the ones being complained about by players.
It's been like that for years.
*guy gets killed by enrage* *complains* - BAM enrage nerf.
*guy gets killed by imbue* *complains* - BAM imbue nerf.
*melee gets killed by range using ascension* *complains* - BAM ascension nerf.
*guy cant kill the only person in the game who likes to touch himself* *complains* - revitalize nerf.
*guy gets out DPSed by themed gas pellets build in PvE* *complains* - BAM gas pellets nerf.
*guy dies to ice grenades + other lagacy devices* *complains* - BAM legacy devices nerf.
90% of this game's population are just a bunch of whining crybabies. Like a few of us have said already, make legacy devices unusable in pvp zone and be done with it. Best and fairest solution.
Yeah.. Like people are going to fall for that again.. use keys to open boxes only to have the items you get changed later on, deleted or "fixed" so they are unusable.
Happened with Prototype jets, now with legacy devices.. items that weren't glitched, they aren't broken. They are working as intended and within the mechanics of the game. And now they are being taken away with zero compensation.
Not going to get suckered into that any more, thank you though.
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All available action figures, check.
Hit the global cap, check.
All lore and event perks done, check.
All 1K mob perks done, check.
All nemesis mob perks done, check.
Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
I don't recommend any kind of unbind token. Especially not one on the Zstore. It's way too liable to be abused.
Assuming anyone wants to have to PAY to have their devices unbound that they bought in good faith that should work as they were meant to.
Oh well.
Life goes on.
Unfortunately, this game won't. I'm afraid I have to join the naysayers now.
This will definitely be the last straw for quite a few of the last group of people that still pay to support the game. I know I personally won't be buying any more zen or keys now. What am I going to do? Win items that will be arbitrarily "fixed" later on so I can't use them anymore?
Yeah.. right.
This message brought to you by the superhero:
Bacon Overlord
All available action figures, check.
Hit the global cap, check.
All lore and event perks done, check.
All 1K mob perks done, check.
All nemesis mob perks done, check.
Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
The ISSUE here (that people seem to be missing) is that this is going to cause quite a few people to quit. And they are the ones investing in the game. I'm not even sure I could MAKE UP a worse thing to do for a game that's hurting for playerbase than punish people for using items that they paid for, as they were intended to be used.
And, naturally, we're punishing the folks that actually PAY for those devices... do you think they'll be stupid enough to do that again? I mean.. this is strike two for me. The first one was the prototype jets that we bought with specific stats, weapons, powers, speed, etc. Then they were nerfed post-purchase.
You just can't do that to people.. you lose their faith, their will to invest in your company and they WILL find another game to play and spend their money on. Maybe one that doesn't make poor choices like this. Granted, if this wasn't the way the items were supposed that work, that's fine.
But the onus is on PWE for that. Not the players that were only using the items as they were intended to be used. Now.. I'm only going by my personal experiences and there may be some exploiting going on.. I don't know. I'm only going on the assumption (and the knowledge) that there are folks that aren't exploiting the devices and are just using them as a normal device. Whether that means they stack or don't stack, or do extra damage or not.. is really irrelevant... the fact is, they bought them because they performed in that manner.
If PWE sat on their fat **** for this long and acted as though the devices were working as intended.. guess what? That actually fueled people's assumptions that, indeed, they were working as they were intended. And, I'm sorry, but a full year later with no changes or updates to the devices sends EXACTLY that message. You can't blame or punish the players for this one. I've been a loyal and supportive member of the team for a long time. But you are really screwing the pooch on this one.
It's on you guys, PWE and Cryptic. Your screw up, your issue. Making another poor decision isn't going to fix the problem. I think you'll find it will make it much worse.
Especially trying to get people to trust you again...
And yes, for me, 20K is a drop in the bucket. But for folks that saved up for the last YEAR to get their pheremones because 20K is a lot of globals.. you're going to just tell them they are screwed? Heh... Good luck with that.
This message brought to you by the superhero:
Bacon Overlord
All available action figures, check.
Hit the global cap, check.
All lore and event perks done, check.
All 1K mob perks done, check.
All nemesis mob perks done, check.
Break 20,000 perk points, check.
Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
I don't recommend any kind of unbind token. Especially not one on the Zstore. It's way too liable to be abused.
Assuming anyone wants to have to PAY to have their devices unbound that they bought in good faith that should work as they were meant to.
Oh well.
Life goes on.
Unfortunately, this game won't. I'm afraid I have to join the naysayers now.
This will definitely be the last straw for quite a few of the last group of people that still pay to support the game. I know I personally won't be buying any more zen or keys now. What am I going to do? Win items that will be arbitrarily "fixed" later on so I can't use them anymore?
Yeah.. right.
Why are you acting like this change is surprising? This was called for since day one. The only *complaints* you should have are 1) Complaining that the fix came so late. 2) Complaining about your stupidity for thinking 5 phermones is balanced, or 5 eruptions, or 5 ice grenades (which stun Cosmics).
The potential damage to the game economy worries me. Does anyone know if a dev has been playing and has ACTUALLY seen for himself why these were so popular, AND realizes the connection to Cosmic Key sales? WHY they absolutely do not belong in PvP? WHY they are incredibly irksome while pugging? If not I think it would be good to get the perspective of a new player into this debate-get Trailturtle's Iris Irregular into the game for an extended period so he can see all facets.
Bacon the "naysayers" are not naysayers, they are critical thinkers questioning questionable descisions. Players will likely not be leaving en masse, but no amount of loss of the playerbase is acceptable. Also, saying how much you spent will just fire people up. I know this because no one ever directs those comments to those who outspend you 50 too 1 but give gifts away randomly and anonymously. Customers used to be able to gift C-store points, if you were here then. This is not a one man economy. That last statement is not directed at you, as this will impact people who don't trade on a regular basis. The best way to get your point across is to get our community representative to see the flip side of this coin.
**edit
I say this because to me lockboxes suddenly look far less attractive.
the Issue Here (that People Seem To Be Missing) Is That This Is Going To Cause Quite A Few People To Quit. And They Are The Ones Investing In The Game. I'm Not Even Sure I Could Make Up A Worse Thing To Do For A Game That's Hurting For Playerbase Than Punish People For Using Items That They Paid For, As They Were Intended To Be Used.
And, Naturally, We're Punishing The Folks That Actually Pay For Those Devices... Do You Think They'll Be Stupid Enough To Do That Again? I Mean.. This Is Strike Two For Me. The First One Was The Prototype Jets That We Bought With Specific Stats, Weapons, Powers, Speed, Etc. Then They Were Nerfed Post-purchase.
You Just Can't Do That To People.. You Lose Their Faith, Their Will To Invest In Your Company And They Will Find Another Game To Play And Spend Their Money On. Maybe One That Doesn't Make Poor Choices Like This. Granted, If This Wasn't The Way The Items Were Supposed That Work, That's Fine.
But The Onus Is On Pwe For That. Not The Players That Were Only Using The Items As They Were Intended To Be Used. Now.. I'm Only Going By My Personal Experiences And There May Be Some Exploiting Going On.. I Don't Know. I'm Only Going On The Assumption (and The Knowledge) That There Are Folks That Aren't Exploiting The Devices And Are Just Using Them As A Normal Device. Whether That Means They Stack Or Don't Stack, Or Do Extra Damage Or Not.. Is Really Irrelevant... The Fact Is, They Bought Them Because They Performed In That Manner.
If Pwe Sat On Their Fat **** For This Long And Acted As Though The Devices Were Working As Intended.. Guess What? That Actually Fueled People's Assumptions That, Indeed, They Were Working As They Were Intended. And, I'm Sorry, But A Full Year Later With No Changes Or Updates To The Devices Sends Exactly That Message. You Can't Blame Or Punish The Players For This One. I've Been A Loyal And Supportive Member Of The Team For A Long Time. But You Are Really Screwing The Pooch On This One.
It's On You Guys, Pwe And Cryptic. Your Screw Up, Your Issue. Making Another Poor Decision Isn't Going To Fix The Problem. I Think You'll Find It Will Make It Much Worse.
Especially Trying To Get People To Trust You Again...
And Yes, For Me, 20k Is A Drop In The Bucket. But For Folks That Saved Up For The Last Year To Get Their Pheremones Because 20k Is A Lot Of Globals.. You're Going To Just Tell Them They Are Screwed? Heh... Good Luck With That.
Bacon the "naysayers" are not naysayers, they are critical thinkers questioning questionable descisions. Players will likely not be leaving en masse, but no amount of loss of the playerbase is acceptable. Also, saying how much you spent will just fire people up. I know this because no one ever directs those comments to those who outspend you 50 too 1 but give gifts away randomly and anonymously. Customers used to be able to gift C-store points, if you were here then. This is not a one man economy. That last statement is not directed at you, as this will impact people who don't trade on a regular basis. The best way to get your point across is to get our community representative to see the flip side of this coin.
**edit
I say this because to me lockboxes suddenly look far less attractive.
I literally JUST made my pet build last week. Spent 20k on pheramones (which, as bacon said, took me close to a year to obtain) because i wanted to be a pet dino master and now they do this? ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. Bacon is right, if they were gonna nerf devices they should have done it MONTHS ago.
Personally, I have a hard time feeling much sympathy for those that loaded up on multiples of the legacy devices on a single toon. It was obviously an exploit that would be fixed eventually. The precedent for this was the original Backup nerfage.
Also, anyone that thinks people using 5 X Pheremones, or Eruptions, or Ice Grenades etc. was not a big balance problem is seriously out of touch.
A lot of reasonable people recognized that stacking these devices was ridiculously unbalancing, both in PvE and PvP, and understood that it was almost certainly an oversight that would be corrected (in Cryptic's glacial timeframe). People that were around for the previous round of Backup nerfs have been through this before, and should have known what to expect.
Trying to tie these legacy devices to direct monetary value is a huge stretch. Did you win them in the Drifter Salvage mini-game or pay Globals in the player economy? If the former, did you buy the keys with globals, Zen, or converted Questionite? What else did you win of value in opening the boxes, for which the salvage was a side-benefit?
Should Cryptic have fixed this sooner, or at least communicated their intentions? Absolutely.
Should the small percentage of players who could afford to stack and abuse these items been aware they were taking a risk by doing so? I think so, yes.
I don't want to see anyone quit the game, and maybe Cryptic can come up with a policy for unbinding that is fair and makes sense. But if that's not feasible, or they don't want to set a new precedent for whatever reason, I think the players should accept their individual responsibility and be happy that they were able to gain the benefit of the device stacking for as long as they did.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
While these are harsh changes, they were needed. I won't sympathize too much with players who are upset over this patch because they're losing their numbers, as these devices blatantly trivialized regular player powers and were unhealthy for content.
It is unfortunate that these changes came so late, and I do hold some sympathy for players losing money (I'm losing roughly 40k). It doesn't bother me as I play with the understanding that things can always change, as this has happened to me in pretty much every MMO I've played, so I'm jaded.
I can't believe there are people who think stacking 5x Pheromones is reasonable or device stacking in general WAI. No one is that naive.
However, I also don't believe that cryptic/pwe was totally blameless and unaware of potential device abuse when the Drifter Store was launched. It was a revenue stream and tying it to the $$ made from Cosmic Key purchases isn't that big of a stretch.
People were complaining about device stacking almost as soon as the Drifter Store opened. My guess is nothing was initially done because of booming lockbox and cosmic key sales. Now that the "Lockbox" economy has been established, it's safe to nerf the devices.
Maybe I'm cynical in my old age.. but there you have it. :cool: The thing is no one is blameless here. If you purchased 5x devices - you knew it was a gamble. Cryptic/PWE let the problem go for so long, because it was good for business.
If they're going to quit because they can no longer abuse their favourite devices, that's their problem.
So true. Cry me a river.
What I don't get is why it took so long? Is this part of the new cryptic teams job to read the forums and clean up this mess of a game? Bug fixes. Device changes. New powers.
All of this has been recent. I like it. Keep it up.
Pre-Comment: Whether you enjoy or despite this nerf, it will have a big effect!
Forcing this legacy device nerf will:
+ restore some PvP balance
- strike the market really hard (giant price collapses, hitting key sales as well (keys are used to get legacy devices over Salvage or instead of resources), and keys = PWE's big money source)
- destroy what tons of people worked for / spend money on over the last year
- kill lots of intends to play the game (farming G or Q, doing the invasion event, etc.)
= results in it being a very bad idea
in short: severe nerf = severe consequences
IMO Good options:
1) Nerf those Legacy Devices as noted but provide the option of unbinding them with the suggested Quartermaster mechanic: Buy 1 "New Eruption" (BoE) by paying with 1 "Eruption" (bound or unbound).
(The BoE device's name is different so you cannot sell any device you got from the Quartermaster, to not infinitely unequip.)
2) Restriction of Devices for PvP areas and duels. And BAM: No (severe) legacy device nerf necessary.
Post-Comment:
I still get really annoyed at the majority of the player base getting crossed (Almost all players I know legacy devices) just because a minuscule number of players abuse legacy devices for supposedly fair PvP fights, among the minority of people still bothering with PvP at all. Small = when compared to the rest of the player base
In other words, PvP represents such a small portion of this game, yet has been causing all the severe nerfs. Sounds like a bad focus for dev time to me. *cough, cough* Use Option 2 and be done with it, pls.
When people say: "Those who used the devices while not caring/knowing about proper game balance totally deserve this!!", feels like telling a smoker who has a hard to breath: "Told you! You don't deserve health care."
I'm only against punishing players despite what they did with the devices. When the prototypes got nerfed thanks to "customization" being introduced, Cryptic compensated those who wrote customer service when punishing those who spent money on devices as they were designed.
Now people should write customer service as being able to use many copies of them was how they were originally designed and are being punished for paying for those things with this new nerf.
Don't punish players. Don't punish your customers.
When people say: "Those who used the devices while not caring/knowing about proper game balance totally deserve this!!", feels like telling a smoker who has a hard to breath: "Told you! You don't deserve health care."
Here's my analogy. It's like rolling your eyes when Goldman Sachs gets caught peddling fraudulent mortgage derivatives and then demands a government bailout.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
[
I still get really annoyed at the majority of the player base getting crossed (Who does not own a legacy devices these days?) just because a minuscule number of players abuse legacy devices for supposedly fair PvP fights, among the minority of people still bothering with PvP at all. Small = when compared to the rest of the player base
In other words, PvP represents such a small portion of this game, yet has been causing all the severe nerfs. Sounds like a bad focus for dev time to me. *cough, cough* Use Option 2 and be done with it, pls.
Here's my analogy. It's like rolling your eyes when Goldman Sachs gets caught peddling fraudulent mortgage derivatives and then demands a government bailout.
Wow, you're so helpful in this discussion providing creative advise and critical reflection. Thank you. /irony test complete
Ok. Lets get something straight. Frist off I have been here since launch. I have spent a lot of money on this game, and continue to. Buying devices is not something I do, nor something I feel I need to do to have a toon I like.
With that being said, I'm glad this nerf is here. For too long exploits have ruined this game.
Stacking x amount of anything to give yourself an advantage over the average populace of the game really screws with the balance of this game. Acting like this is a surprise by those who abuse these devices is what pisses me off. Yeah, it's all good and well when your min/max toon runs through the content of this game already, without the help of a crutch... but take that away and now you can't play anymore? Give me a eff'n break.
As for the comment about denying health care @misterspider... this is a video game.
Life and death in the real world is something entirely different. Not that serious.
If you think the two are related, you may need to stop playing, therapy without health care can get expensive I hear.
Comments
lol, calm down buddy, we actually SUPPORT it!
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
................................................
Nature Powerset
................................................
@Man.of.Light
There is nothing stopping me from not dequipping my existing 5 Teleiosaurus Pheromones once this patch hits live, and they still stack on top of each other.
Teleiosaurus Pheromones need to be changed so they do not stack.
Seen the same theme park ploy over and over again. Pay to Play, more liked played to pay, GG Cryptic you are the ultimate troll in your own game.
.
It's not vikorin that does this, it's the statues in the corners of the room.
You absolutely must not aggro them ever, if you do, you may as well just reset the instance. Basically, just turn off all travel powers and never move from standing on the staircase platform. If vikorin hits you with the disable simply go to the bottom of the staircase (There's a blindspot right on the bottom step.), but no further. Break free, then go back up to the top of the stairs.
Also, never evereverever use ANY pets ever for any reason ever. They WILL aggro the statues at some point in the fight.
Granted all of the above is bull**** and those statues should be fixed, but considering we've got a clear statement that lair reviews are cancelled until further notice... I doubt a fix will happen.
Snark never dies.
NOTE: I say this on the premise of not actually testing what they deal damage wise as level 40s. If their damage is roughly the same then no summon time should be increased. However I have a feeling 20 levels will significantly alter their damage.
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Well, since Vikorin is inside the lair...and is part of it, in order to fix any bugs regarding the lair itself they would need to touch the lairs code, which they have said before is being held together just about, or something of that nature.
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I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS 100%.
Make devices unusable in PvP zones and end it there. If my pet build gets messed up in any way after I spent so much time and money on it. I'm leaving the game for good and I will gaunrantee you I wont be the only one.
I've sat through nerf after nerf, and only 1 MAYBE 2 buffs in the past 1.5 years. First imbue, now this. F that noise.
- UNBIND TOKEN - This would be account wide and would allow players to unbind multiple Device types.
This is going to be a messy patch, not everyone is going to be as thrilled with this. I am only affected on one of my toons by this change but it will still be a little annoying, even more so for others.
I would request that you take into consideration the idea of an unbind token for such a change. It would certainly help. A lot.
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Someone soloing Vikorin can easily killed by Gravitar. Both happen.
Cybermind kills everyone. Who cares. xD
Reduce the ridiculously large CD on the (practically) useless ones. NORMALIZE them, much like you did with (most of) the Blood Moon devices, to 3 minutes.
Energy Absorbing Crashsuit. A pittance of energy every 30 seconds .... I guess. I don't own one, but the Tooltip doesn't inspire me to use one. Ever. Toss it a bone to make it worthwhile. Such as giving the player energy a percentage of energy when they've been hit, once every X seconds.
Bug
Neuroelectric Pulse Generator (in addition to the other suggestions) should be tagged as MELEE and buffed/nerfed accordingly. It IS only 4m, which is the OLD melee range.
Bug
Tooltip for many DEVICES, especially Blood Moon devices, show a reduced time, based on Int, but retain the original maximum cooldown. Fix one or the other, ie either allow the CD to be affected by CD reduction or fix the Tooltip to say what the TRUE cooldown is.
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"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
P.S. NPG is buffed by Melee role. But it is not buffed by any Form stacks.
I've soloed Vikorin multiple times on multiple characters. Always with my travel power on, usually with pets out. I've found that magic spot a couple times, but I've never been able to reliable stay there, so I always spend a fair amount of the fight getting knocked about.
I'd love to see the statues changed, at least so that they stack knock resistance, if nothing else, but that lair isn't nearly as bad as a handful of people make it out to be.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Woo! I'm nobody!
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Can we get some pictures of the following please?
[Become Samurai Robot] <---oooh :eek:
[AV-55A Martinez Vehicle] <-- Sounds like a land based Vehicle..is this true?
[Sharkfin Costume Pieces] <--interesting...
Also..what is an "[Anniversary Party Favour]"?
Thanks!
EDIT: Back Up Devices are scaling down to level 40 correctly so yay! But can we have their CD adjusted to 15 mins at the very most? If 15 mins please remove shared CD.
EDIT 2: Samurai Robot wouldn't happen to look a bit like the Silver Samurai from The Wolverine would it?
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The shared cooldown is a nice touch but having them all go on cooldown when one is used is the icing on the cake.
Oh wait..what is this....You never fixed the build switch exploit? Oh my..Haven't you learned from the days of triple and quadruple mirrors? Tsk tsk..
Well, it was a nice try at least.
Electric Form negates a portion of his particle damage, so you can survive :cool:
But getting to the buff is ideal.
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The only devices not allowed in the hero games are become devices which completely alter the look and functionality of your character. Other devices (for example the blood moon devices) are in fact allowed in the hero games.
It seems to me like the powers that were targeted seem to be ones that were either exploited or deemed as too power (either by itself or used in conjunction with the other devices.) Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer is a weak hold that does no damage. It does not debuff who it is used upon, nor does it buff the person who uses it. These are probably the reasons why it was not added to the shared cooldown list.
As far as holds go, it's really strong - you check this by looking at its duration when holding a mob or checking the amount of breakfree damage required to get out if you are being held.
But holds don't matter in pve, unless they work on bosses (see Ice Grenades).
I think the reason shared cd items are in the list of changes is that they are the ones being complained about by players.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
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I apologize, I should have been more clear. When I said "it is a weak hold" I meant in comparison to other holds that are similar to it. Of course how long a mob is held will depend on the level and strength of the mob (and how long a character is held will depend on level,hold resistance,and z mashing), but the base holding potential of Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer is less than (for example) Ego Hold or Containment Field. It does balance out since those two holds have 50ft ranges while the Inducer's range is longer, however, the "hold itself" is weaker.
It's been like that for years.
*guy gets killed by enrage* *complains* - BAM enrage nerf.
*guy gets killed by imbue* *complains* - BAM imbue nerf.
*melee gets killed by range using ascension* *complains* - BAM ascension nerf.
*guy cant kill the only person in the game who likes to touch himself* *complains* - revitalize nerf.
*guy gets out DPSed by themed gas pellets build in PvE* *complains* - BAM gas pellets nerf.
*guy dies to ice grenades + other lagacy devices* *complains* - BAM legacy devices nerf.
90% of this game's population are just a bunch of whining crybabies. Like a few of us have said already, make legacy devices unusable in pvp zone and be done with it. Best and fairest solution.
This nerf is right, but a minimum compensation for those who invested a lot of time (or money) in should be considerated.
Yeah.. Like people are going to fall for that again.. use keys to open boxes only to have the items you get changed later on, deleted or "fixed" so they are unusable.
Happened with Prototype jets, now with legacy devices.. items that weren't glitched, they aren't broken. They are working as intended and within the mechanics of the game. And now they are being taken away with zero compensation.
Not going to get suckered into that any more, thank you though.
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Assuming anyone wants to have to PAY to have their devices unbound that they bought in good faith that should work as they were meant to.
Oh well.
Life goes on.
Unfortunately, this game won't. I'm afraid I have to join the naysayers now.
This will definitely be the last straw for quite a few of the last group of people that still pay to support the game. I know I personally won't be buying any more zen or keys now. What am I going to do? Win items that will be arbitrarily "fixed" later on so I can't use them anymore?
Yeah.. right.
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Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
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And, naturally, we're punishing the folks that actually PAY for those devices... do you think they'll be stupid enough to do that again? I mean.. this is strike two for me. The first one was the prototype jets that we bought with specific stats, weapons, powers, speed, etc. Then they were nerfed post-purchase.
You just can't do that to people.. you lose their faith, their will to invest in your company and they WILL find another game to play and spend their money on. Maybe one that doesn't make poor choices like this. Granted, if this wasn't the way the items were supposed that work, that's fine.
But the onus is on PWE for that. Not the players that were only using the items as they were intended to be used. Now.. I'm only going by my personal experiences and there may be some exploiting going on.. I don't know. I'm only going on the assumption (and the knowledge) that there are folks that aren't exploiting the devices and are just using them as a normal device. Whether that means they stack or don't stack, or do extra damage or not.. is really irrelevant... the fact is, they bought them because they performed in that manner.
If PWE sat on their fat **** for this long and acted as though the devices were working as intended.. guess what? That actually fueled people's assumptions that, indeed, they were working as they were intended. And, I'm sorry, but a full year later with no changes or updates to the devices sends EXACTLY that message. You can't blame or punish the players for this one. I've been a loyal and supportive member of the team for a long time. But you are really screwing the pooch on this one.
It's on you guys, PWE and Cryptic. Your screw up, your issue. Making another poor decision isn't going to fix the problem. I think you'll find it will make it much worse.
Especially trying to get people to trust you again...
And yes, for me, 20K is a drop in the bucket. But for folks that saved up for the last YEAR to get their pheremones because 20K is a lot of globals.. you're going to just tell them they are screwed? Heh... Good luck with that.
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Complete all 5K perk points, stay tuned!
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20k is just plain greed.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I think what he meant was 20k for 5x pheromones. Which is 4k a piece.
OH. Excuse my lack of English ^__^.
That makes more sense
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Why are you acting like this change is surprising? This was called for since day one. The only *complaints* you should have are 1) Complaining that the fix came so late. 2) Complaining about your stupidity for thinking 5 phermones is balanced, or 5 eruptions, or 5 ice grenades (which stun Cosmics).
The potential damage to the game economy worries me. Does anyone know if a dev has been playing and has ACTUALLY seen for himself why these were so popular, AND realizes the connection to Cosmic Key sales? WHY they absolutely do not belong in PvP? WHY they are incredibly irksome while pugging? If not I think it would be good to get the perspective of a new player into this debate-get Trailturtle's Iris Irregular into the game for an extended period so he can see all facets.
Bacon the "naysayers" are not naysayers, they are critical thinkers questioning questionable descisions. Players will likely not be leaving en masse, but no amount of loss of the playerbase is acceptable. Also, saying how much you spent will just fire people up. I know this because no one ever directs those comments to those who outspend you 50 too 1 but give gifts away randomly and anonymously. Customers used to be able to gift C-store points, if you were here then. This is not a one man economy. That last statement is not directed at you, as this will impact people who don't trade on a regular basis. The best way to get your point across is to get our community representative to see the flip side of this coin.
**edit
I say this because to me lockboxes suddenly look far less attractive.
Agree With This 100%.
I literally JUST made my pet build last week. Spent 20k on pheramones (which, as bacon said, took me close to a year to obtain) because i wanted to be a pet dino master and now they do this? ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. Bacon is right, if they were gonna nerf devices they should have done it MONTHS ago.
Nail on the head. Amen.
Trying to tie these legacy devices to direct monetary value is a huge stretch. Did you win them in the Drifter Salvage mini-game or pay Globals in the player economy? If the former, did you buy the keys with globals, Zen, or converted Questionite? What else did you win of value in opening the boxes, for which the salvage was a side-benefit?
Should Cryptic have fixed this sooner, or at least communicated their intentions? Absolutely.
Should the small percentage of players who could afford to stack and abuse these items been aware they were taking a risk by doing so? I think so, yes.
I don't want to see anyone quit the game, and maybe Cryptic can come up with a policy for unbinding that is fair and makes sense. But if that's not feasible, or they don't want to set a new precedent for whatever reason, I think the players should accept their individual responsibility and be happy that they were able to gain the benefit of the device stacking for as long as they did.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Im ice nade'ing mermaids \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It is unfortunate that these changes came so late, and I do hold some sympathy for players losing money (I'm losing roughly 40k). It doesn't bother me as I play with the understanding that things can always change, as this has happened to me in pretty much every MMO I've played, so I'm jaded.
Pure hyperbole right there.
If they're going to quit because they can no longer abuse their favourite devices, that's their problem.
However, I also don't believe that cryptic/pwe was totally blameless and unaware of potential device abuse when the Drifter Store was launched. It was a revenue stream and tying it to the $$ made from Cosmic Key purchases isn't that big of a stretch.
People were complaining about device stacking almost as soon as the Drifter Store opened. My guess is nothing was initially done because of booming lockbox and cosmic key sales. Now that the "Lockbox" economy has been established, it's safe to nerf the devices.
Maybe I'm cynical in my old age.. but there you have it. :cool: The thing is no one is blameless here. If you purchased 5x devices - you knew it was a gamble. Cryptic/PWE let the problem go for so long, because it was good for business.
What I don't get is why it took so long? Is this part of the new cryptic teams job to read the forums and clean up this mess of a game? Bug fixes. Device changes. New powers.
All of this has been recent. I like it. Keep it up.
Whether you enjoy or despite this nerf, it will have a big effect!
Forcing this legacy device nerf will:
+ restore some PvP balance
- strike the market really hard (giant price collapses, hitting key sales as well (keys are used to get legacy devices over Salvage or instead of resources), and keys = PWE's big money source)
- destroy what tons of people worked for / spend money on over the last year
- kill lots of intends to play the game (farming G or Q, doing the invasion event, etc.)
= results in it being a very bad idea
in short: severe nerf = severe consequences
IMO Good options:
1) Nerf those Legacy Devices as noted but provide the option of unbinding them with the suggested Quartermaster mechanic: Buy 1 "New Eruption" (BoE) by paying with 1 "Eruption" (bound or unbound).
(The BoE device's name is different so you cannot sell any device you got from the Quartermaster, to not infinitely unequip.)
2) Restriction of Devices for PvP areas and duels. And BAM: No (severe) legacy device nerf necessary.
Post-Comment:
I still get really annoyed at the majority of the player base getting crossed (Almost all players I know legacy devices) just because a minuscule number of players abuse legacy devices for supposedly fair PvP fights, among the minority of people still bothering with PvP at all. Small = when compared to the rest of the player base
In other words, PvP represents such a small portion of this game, yet has been causing all the severe nerfs. Sounds like a bad focus for dev time to me. *cough, cough* Use Option 2 and be done with it, pls.
When people say: "Those who used the devices while not caring/knowing about proper game balance totally deserve this!!", feels like telling a smoker who has a hard to breath: "Told you! You don't deserve health care."
Formerly unknown as @FroschMitHut
Now people should write customer service as being able to use many copies of them was how they were originally designed and are being punished for paying for those things with this new nerf.
Don't punish players. Don't punish your customers.
Here's my analogy. It's like rolling your eyes when Goldman Sachs gets caught peddling fraudulent mortgage derivatives and then demands a government bailout.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Fair enough. Will rephrase it to be less absolute.
Formerly unknown as @FroschMitHut
With that being said, I'm glad this nerf is here. For too long exploits have ruined this game.
Stacking x amount of anything to give yourself an advantage over the average populace of the game really screws with the balance of this game. Acting like this is a surprise by those who abuse these devices is what pisses me off. Yeah, it's all good and well when your min/max toon runs through the content of this game already, without the help of a crutch... but take that away and now you can't play anymore? Give me a eff'n break.
As for the comment about denying health care @misterspider... this is a video game.
Life and death in the real world is something entirely different. Not that serious.
If you think the two are related, you may need to stop playing, therapy without health care can get expensive I hear.