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FC.31.20130824.3 PTS Update
lordgar
Posts: 267 Arc User
This build is scheduled to hit PTS at 4:30pm PST, 9/10/2013
Greetings!
We are updating PTS to version FC.31.20130824.3, which contains the following changes:
Release Notes:
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Greetings!
We are updating PTS to version FC.31.20130824.3, which contains the following changes:
Release Notes:
- All Drifter Legacy Devices are now Unique Equipped. You may not place more than one copy of the same Legacy Device into your Devices toolbar.
- Some Legacy Devices now share their cooldown with other copies of the same device. This applies to: Omicron Induced Strength, Psionic Surge, Eruption, Echo's Stick, Khusor's Doom, Ice Grenades, and Neuroelectric Pulse Generator.
- Omicron Induced Strength and Psionic Surge now remove travel powers through the Nailed to the Ground/Freedom! mechanic.
- Backup! Devices (both permanent and temporary) now summon a Champion who is the same level as the player using the device.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
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Comments
....about time lol :thumbs up:
now.. about removing their use in hero games like other devices....
Hell, I'll still farm for those back up devices still.. got a champion in mind for each toon.
::puts on hard hat::
Okay Ready!
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Snark never dies.
^^ This. Please.
I am glad you guys have done this.
I wonder how this will affect the event...will people want to play it now that only lvl 40 back ups drop? I reckon they will.
However make Legacy and Back Up! Devices Bound to account. This will be ALOT nicer than making this change and keeping them bound to one toon. It should be moveable around an entire account when bound.
If not, a one time universal unbind token of sort is in order, people spent a lot of money on these.
I am sad about Psionic Surge (on reflection), it was the only power which I know of which could ground Vehicles. And Flying bosses like Valerian Scarlett and VIPER X.
If BackUps are going to be level 40 then Shared CD should be removed IMO, put them back to their regular 15 min CD and have it not affected by INT (or only affected by half INT value).
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Especially since the Int Specialization was nerfed so badly that it won't effect Backup exploiting so much.
I can only say one thing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs
Finally... just... finally...
Surge was one of the few devices that could remove ascension - the only reason to have it as you could basically do the same thing with nttg/omicron.
Omicron didn't apply freedom, the biggest benefit to its use. Now it will mostly appeal to ATs who have a 50ft nttg or none at all.
Purple backups have already seen nerfs a plenty. Reducing their power a ton without readjusting their cd to reasonable rates kills their value. You don't see a huge demand for firefight even tho he's already on a reasonable cd. What value is a power that you not only get to use once in a blue moon but itself is lackluster?
multiple identical devices were definitely becoming a problem, but if they're not unbound and ultimately unusable, you're going to alienate a lot of people. The game has enough retention issues.
So Psionic Surge works with the NttG but its cooldown is atrocious? If they're gonna fix these devices they could adjust OTHER numbers too.
Don't nerf devices. Balance them. Make ALL devices useful.
I don't have a dog in this fight, however a few things worry me here.
1. Customers who paid significant amounts of money to obtain these are gonna flip out. I am sick of seeing all the dinosaur summons personally. On the other hand, in PvE, this is of no concern for me. If I want to do instanced missions with friends not using these, I can. If I want to run five man alerts, this too can easily be accomplished. My playing preference and opinions in PvE are completely irrelevant. You guys sold these in a form of a gamble box via drifter, and someone wanting to play as a dinosaur pet master is no skin off my nose. The people who spent tons on this with a theme in mind are going to be seriously disappointed. Lordgar, you need to prepare yourself. Most players don't bother with the forums. When they cannot play with herds of dinosaurs, you had best expect a backlash of Jurassic proportion when they show up and start asking questions. Please prepare a statement for them explaining why these decisions were made. Do not assume that new players or infrequent players will automatically know why this had to be addressed. Long time players know why this must be done. Others, not so much.
2. PvP- Wouldn't it just have been easier to tag the items with something that would not allow for use of them in PvP? Or create pvp versions at Hero Games vendors with the changes you listed? It would be nice to have something to buy with acclaim again.
3. Account wide one time use unbind token. As others have suggested, this is the best way of premptively preventing a tidal wave of complaints.
4. No more Legacy Device Boxes. This is another way to prevent further abuse of devices. If you can't code an unbind token, then have these changes affect the Legacy Devices purchased AFTER your proposed changes. Announce these changes. Make it a priority to get the word out. Then offer the devices with the newly imposed restrictions in the Drifter store for a flat fee. Maybe for 20 drifter salvage or something, so that customers can purchase them outright as needed.
5. In game market-I know this is not of large concern for you, but this is seriously gonna throw prices out of whack for awhile. AGAIN. This will hurt trading amongst players as they are forced once again to establish new baseline prices.
It's very difficult to argue (at least from this customer's perspective) that nothing should be done regarding device use, but for pete's sake at the BARE MINIMUM consider the unbind token.
I don't mind the proposed changes to the Backup devices. Complaining about in an in game drop is pointless. I implore you, again, to consider unbinding for theme players and marketeers.
The only thing I see here that I have an issue with is the same thing you did to us just around this time last year with the backups when you made them all share the same cooldown and not be affected by CD reduction gear/skills/specs.
You're taking things that already exist in the game (that aren't broken, glitched or being exploited through some bug that nobody else knows about) and making them unusable.
Everyone that has more than one eruption, Pheremones, etc.. will now have wasted investment of zen, time, keys, etc.
My thought is.. if you plan to keep this game alive, it might be best to focus on the things that are, indeed, game breaking. Such as the plethora of other game glitches, issues, exploits, problems, etc. rather than punish the people that have played the game the way it was meant to be played, invested time and money based on the rules as they were and now are being told they are just SOL for no particular reason.
I could see it if this was an issue like with the surge devices being exploited. People bought them from the AH, sure. But they weren't SUPPOSED to be glitched. But they were. So you had a leg to stand on when you fixed them across the board.
But what you're doing here is punishing folks that are using devices as they were supposed to be used, that invested the time and money to get them and use them... Granted, some things like the Eruption could be called exploitable if someone has a mass amount of them. However, that's what the game mechanics allowed to happen. They weren't abusing some form of exploit or bug. I.E. They don't deserved to be punished by making all but one of their devices unusable. If they weren't meant to be stacked (E.G. Pheremones) then they wouldn't have stacked...
You need to find another way to implement this. Perhaps a grandfather clause or find a way to not irritate 90% of the playerbase with a single update when you're already on thin ice.
As I said.. there are plenty of other things you could be working on.
My only real suggestion would be to take away the ability to use devices in PVP. That should take care of 99% of the problems. But punishing the rest of us when we were following the rules and doing what we were supposed to...
Not a good thing to do on your second patch in the last 3 years.
Personally I still have a bad taste in my mouth at having a full set of 6 perm backups from last year that I can only use one at a time and only every 30 minutes.
My two cents, for what it's worth. You're not changing things that are glitched or bugged. You're changing things people PAID for and paid lots of zen to even get a chance to win, or paid thousands of globals for BECAUSE they worked as they were advertised, as they said on the device and as they were allowed by the game mechanics. This is a very very slippery slope.
Edit: I guess my real heartache here is the precedence here is allowing people to buy things to use them (See Also: Prototype jets) and then change them after they are purchased. Expect a LOT of resistance on this one. Like I said.. just make devices unusable in PVP and 99% of the whining will disappear.
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Also, anyone that thinks people using 5 X Pheremones, or Eruptions, or Ice Grenades etc. was not a big balance problem is seriously out of touch.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
For the past year, many players have focused time and resources on getting these devices using Gs and salvage. When a player logs on to find that a character with 3-5 of the same device suddenly can't use them, that player might say, "To hell with this game!" and quit.
We want to fix bugs and exploits, but we don't want to make people want to quit.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I am one of the folks who is gravely impacted by this patch, as I have multiple devices on multiple toons, like x5 pheromones, x5 Euption, x2 elixirs, etc. I've sent more than $500 over the summer on this game, and have wasted tons more ever since Sept 2009, and I'm still here. I'm not going anywhere because of this patch.
There are other I know ( Jewel, Rafahil, Vixy, Falchoin) that have pheremones yet I haven't seen them post something negative about this change, though they might...
One more thing, if you notice a patch where everyone in every single post of a thread post a negative response, then that's whe most of the community is pissed. So far I see tons more "About time" type of replies.
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Agreed 100%
In hindsight, those who have spent that much time and possibly money getting legacy stuff should've seen the eventual shackling down of them coming. It's not like it was a secret that they're some of the most ridiculously broken items in the game that trivialize basically everything even more than it already is just by playing freeform.
I mean, if they weren't ridiculously overpowered you wouldn't all have spent all that time and money trying to get them, would you?
I've got quite a few myself, as well. But I had the foresight to not waste my time making a build or something ridiculous like that out of them. This form of super-delayed nerfing is not new of Cryptic, we've seen it for years now.
Snark never dies.
However, I agree with unbinding all the legacy devices currently equipped so those that do have multiples on one character can swap them to another character or sell them.
Wait now, I'm pretty darn sure only 10% or less of the populace has those items or enough of them to matter anyway...
So.. not sure about that...
Here we are now going to the West Side
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Some may come and some may stay
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In game as @forgemccain
You might as well program in an unbind function since we're all pretty certain this won't be the last time there will be a screw up. And it paves the way for you to sell unbind tokens that I see in a lot of MMORPGs.
Please don't push this through without considering the above. Believe me, the players with multiple copies who benefit from the unbind will still be at a net loss since the unbound devices will probably sell for a fraction of what they paid for them. But it is a fair method of compensation.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I can agree with that, this nerf should come with a unbinding or changing them to account bind instead..
...something to offset this
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
I don't think Necrullitic Elixir requires a shared cooldown or even needs to have Unique status. If you're thinking of multiple stacks of it, then they need to fix the zone bug which occurs with Illumination too.
If you're thinking of continuous NE there are lots of builds with tons of cooldown and/or Revitalize/Nanobot Swarm that can get NE to be continuous with just one NE.
Anyone equipped with 2 NEs due to long cooldown is basically emulating the above build but that gets them no additional healing benefit.
Bugs
Ice Grenades do not apply hold resistance.
Omicron Induced Strength does not apply kb resistance.
Neuroelectric Pulse Generator does not apply kb resistance.
Ice Grenades ignore hold immunity (not resistance). You can interrupt bosses with them.
Definitely agree with the overall spirit of the changes. As others have said, we have been waiting for this for a long time. I was thinking this would never happen and I'm glad to have been proven wrong.
A few things to consider:
Consumable unbind token specifically for legacy devices. Maybe even just one per character.
CD reduction on Backups given that they are no longer so ridiculous.
Nailed to the ground being put on devices makes the advantage a bit pointless on powers.
Telekinetic Force Field Inducer should be on a shared cooldown with its own copies as well.
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You're probably right, actually. I was thinking about the stacking issue, but that may not be likely.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
How to do this:
Set a build where every device in your device slot is the same legacy device (ie, 5x Eruptions)
Switch builds
Switch to that build again
Viola! You now have 5x Eruptions in your inventory again!
I would also be curious to see some "math" on the new backups since I still believe they need a dramatic(not as much as before probably) cut in DPS AND CD as well as the removal of the shared CD between them. They should be, IMO, a mildly useful(see: regular pets and sidekicks) fun item so that if someone(not me) wants to play pokemon with the champions and summon the whole team...I say let them. Just not if Ironclad is still in the OMGWTFBBQ numbers.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
HELLL YESSSSS!!!
About damn time!
Thank you!
Damn straight.
And you just know all those little hot-shot kiddies with their toys while whine and moan when they can no longer device spam their way to success. No more 5 Pheromones. No more 5 Eruptions for invincibility.
Keiko to the rescue! Good catch, hope they fix it before it hits live
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I totally agree. In fact I've suggested just in the past, almost 2 years ago. I still support the sale of "unbind tokens" today. Good for Cryptic's sales, good for players and the in-game economy.
*thumbs up*
Good riddance. And by the way? I TOLD YOU SO!
Yes I did. So did. Do you remember? Oh yeah, I said because they did this before with Blood Moon devices (i.e.: 5 Nimbus of Force) and with Backup Devices. I said it more than once to you on Trade chat, and your response was basically that it wouldn't happen and I was wrong. Well guess what...?
I'm sorry but you have ZERO pity from me. Maybe that comes off as callous, but I'm being honest. It's not a superpower, it's just a device, something meant to support your build and character not replace it. Same thing I've said about vehicles, and why I didn't want them weaponized (but figured & feared they would, and it did). Repeat, devices should support your build and NOT replace it. I know I've argued that to death with JonSills on these forums, as he's never agreed with me on that point. (example from me: Batman has a batmobile, not that the batmobile has a batman)
And as far as things I loved getting nerfed? Yeah it's happened to me before too, so don't say I can't relate either:
My reaction? Deal with it.
Cryptic will change the game if it's part of what's in the fun of the game. This SHOULD be expected, even though it seems to take them their good sweet time fixing something that's obviously out of balance.
And one facet of that which is unique to MMO fun?
Wealth.
Something that you take for granted I'd say, seeing as you have more than almost ANY other player that I know, all of them combined!
If it's too easy to farm using a particular loophole, this is something to be investigated and either made equally accessible or made limited. Common-sense MMO management. Good management in the long run, although it should be expect to be unpopular with those few who took advantage of the loophole. This too is SHOULD be expected.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
"Kiddies".
"Stupid".
"Hot shots".
Et cetera.
These are CUSTOMERS you are referring too, most of whom you don't know and who do not know you.
There is significant difference between "abusive" and "exploitative". These are not like hacks. Cryptic didn't sell people "hacks". They sold devices. You are seriously going to blame the customer for what Cryptic provided? Jeebus H, the devices are going to be changed. Isn't that enough?
Lets turn the tables on ourselves a moment here. Legion gear; suppose one were to make a cogent argument that they create a divide between the population to the extent that they need nerfing and as such will remove the second core slot, and replace it with a watered down increase to stats? Are the people who purchased keys to open the boxes at fault? No. That would again fall on Cryptic's shoulders.
If you feel a need to direct your ire at someone, let it be towards the company that let the genie out of the bottle in the first place. NOT the ones who stumbled upon said genie and said "I want a pet dinosaur army" or "I want to live forever".
This sounds like the "love it or leave it" attempt to squash legitimate criticism, except it sounds harsh, judgmental, and very off putting as forum fights usually occur between people who frequent the forums, but NOT the PTS subsection. Infighting here is not good. Do it on the general forums. This is going to effect lots of people. There is no need to kick them while they are down.
There is plenty of "who said what to who's hershey highway" on the regular discussion forums. Keep it there.
Also this cannot be quoted enough. IT MUST BE SEEN. Good work Keiko. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
As I am testing on PTS and unless there is a bug you are unable to add another Legacy Device to a 2nd slot.
It's mostly relevant for Pheromones, which don't have a shared cooldown, not that a shared CD would affect them, since they're toggles.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Even so, you might want to consider reducing the cooldown on the Backups to 5 minutes, and/or increasing the duration to 20-30 seconds, or the level to "player level+5", just so they'll still be attractive enough that people will want to farm the event. Because we will get some backlash and some players are going to say this event is "no longer worth doing".
Nerfing may be necessary to improve game balance, and I think it *is*more than justified in this case, where a Backup can be an autowin in a lair boss fight. However nerfing does have consequences that go beyond balance issues, people do quit over it, and CO really can't take too many hits to its player base.
I can also see where some might call "foul". Only because these knowingly exploitable devices were placed in the "Drifters Legacy Store". To get them you had to buy keys and then gamble on getting the device you wanted. Much like a slot machine gamble - people kept dumping in real world $$ until they got the devices they wanted.
Whether you liked how the devices were used or not - it turned into cash for PWE/Cryptic. I'd argue they knew the appeal of the legacy devices when they were made available again. So now the money has been made and the devices have been brought into line. I don't have a horse in this race - but I can see where some people might feel duped or misled.
Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer still applies the old style "Hold Protection" buff after the hold as opposed to the new Hold Resistance.
Telekinetic Forcefield Inducer should also be on a shared cooldown....at the moment it is not.
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My vote goes to just remove the equipping one copy change, and adding the shared cooldown thing to devices that need it like what is done now, but adding the summon effect of the pheromones to that list and maybe a few others.
How about, before you're a jerk to your fellow player about something like, say, device stacking, or using a level 60 pet that doesn't come in any other variety, you consider the developers who willfully overlooked their implementation in the first place, despite numerous warnings from customers that it would cause imbalance to the game in some form, or another? Didn't we try to warn them in the first place, only to get repeatedly ignored?
And wouldn't it be convenient if all the problem devices had one single point of commonality, such as a single individual who worked to create and implement them without regard for checks and balances? Hmm, imagine that.
Anyway, I don't get all the petulant remarks. It's uncalled for, especially when this patch is supposedly giving the people who are making the remarks exactly what they've been wanting for oh-so-long.
Also, the build switching "exploit", as has been pointed out, is largely irrelevant, as the devices that would be affected by such a work around all share a cool down.
On another note: You guys are going to have to do something with the Backup! devices to make them more appealing after this. Otherwise, there's really no point in participating in the upcoming event longer than it takes to get the action figure. That'll be a first day activity, and the event is up for how long?
I don't know about everyone else, but I have no desire to get myself beat up by level 60 uber-villains any longer than I have to. And party trinkets just aren't going to cut it for me. I already have a level 46 Firefight to play with and he actually stays out for the full 30 seconds the device description says he's supposed to.
Qft. This and what Crosschan said say it better than I ever could.