The difference between Bloodmoon devices and Legacy devices are pretty big.
BM devices generally have larger cooldowns and can be found in event gameplay that used to occur every month and still sometimes happen. Getting a BM device is much easier in that regard. BM devices were still on the market last time I checked. I packed quite a few for PvE and PvP.
Not to mention BM devices of the same type have shared cooldowns (and if i recall correctly prevented you from equipping more than one at a time in the first place!)
Legacy Devices are locked behind a gamble or locked behind a crapton of farming and were not balanced for use as true devices. Rather, they were balanced to be equipped in a Primary equipment slot where you sacrificed stats to use the devices, impacting general performance so you could gain the ability to toss a rock or hit something with a really big sword.
edit: Also, getting hit with Archer's Memory or Supernatural Possession wasn't a death sentence unless you stood there and took it, and having Nimbus of Force wasn't particularly guaranteed to keep you alive. With Legacy devices, an Ice Grenade can hit 10k easily with a Soldier. God forbid someone with Legion gear and R9s with a passive that boosts Cold damage uses it. You can flood a map with dinosaurs by running a bunch of Teleiosaur Pheremones. You can do really damaging knockbacks in melee with a level 40 Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You can have a constant BCR effect going with Necrulitic Elixir until you get hit with Trauma (this isn't much of a problem because Trauma is so common in the PvPer's toolkit) and Eruption makes you invincible during its animation. Come on!
We can send people to the moon, and we can laser etch billions of logic circuits onto a silicon wafer the size of a fingernail, but balancing a video game? That's impossible. :biggrin:
Now the new, terrible PvP metagame is DEVICES DEVICES DEVICES. The nice thing about CO PvP to me was that you didn't really HAVE to farm for days to have a fighting chance.
This is very untrue, especially for AT pvp. What seems like a very long time ago, I leveled a Behemoth through hero games. What I encountered was ATs heavily decked in devices, power replacers or primary utilities that had a power. That made all the difference in pvp.
The player that made the most impression was a Blade that was winning against even Soldiers and Behemoths (that was before the unleashed came about), but that player spent most of his time farming for that advantage.
Nowadays, most of us will agree that for a silver to participate in the full experience of pvp, he is required to farm for a Freeform slot.
Yes, a silver player has to farm or spend money for an advantage, not unlike obtaining devices.
The point is, in any scenario, to participate amongst the top tier of pvpers, these are the pvpers that are willing to spend the resources and make the effort to have any kind of advantages.
Everyone is given the same opportunity to obtain those advantages, but no one is forced to participate at that level.
Likewise with any aspect of this game, don't like it? You don't have to do it. Balance is one thing, removing something because another feels 'forced' into it because he himself wants to participate is just clouded judgment.
Which reminds me, this is no different than that guy in the other sub-forum asking to nerf other players because they are overpowered and kills too fast, and he didn't get a chance to contribute/participate in alerts (or open missions). This is as ludicrous as asking them to ban 5 pheremones in PVE so that naysayers can feel important about themselves.
No clue if this is your first mmo ever... but p2w is common, QQ about p2w is common. In a game with real pvp (pk) open world style, the criers can be punished in game by killing them on sight. This sadly does not work in co... yet.
Sarcasm aside, if you pvp without devices you are not a pro due to the fact that you are
lacking either some sort of survivability or maybe a heal, or even some sort of debuff.
If you compete at the horse race, do you bring a saddle along or not? If you do not happen to own a saddle, would you consider buying one before even trying to attempt in competing with the other Jockeys? Most likely, yes.
Instead of posting massive Wot's on the forum, you could actually farm Globals, mods, etc.
In the end dedication is all you need, dedication and an actual goal to accomplish.
In your case the goal would be getting devices. It does not happen over night, if you are unwilling to spend money on it, but not impossible to farm ingame at all, it just takes some time.
Anything is possible, if only you believe in it.
Actually, the forum user honestresearcher is not someone who does not farm/pay or perhaps he has accumulated plenty of stipends. Whatever the case, he has at least a toon with 5 teleiosaurus pheromones which is the most expensive (in terms of globals) and sought after device in game at the moment.
The difference between Bloodmoon devices and Legacy devices are pretty big.
BM devices generally have larger cooldowns and can be found in event gameplay that used to occur every month and still sometimes happen. Getting a BM device is much easier in that regard. BM devices were still on the market last time I checked. I packed quite a few for PvE and PvP.
Not to mention BM devices of the same type have shared cooldowns (and if i recall correctly prevented you from equipping more than one at a time in the first place!)
Legacy Devices are locked behind a gamble or locked behind a crapton of farming and were not balanced for use as true devices. Rather, they were balanced to be equipped in a Primary equipment slot where you sacrificed stats to use the devices, impacting general performance so you could gain the ability to toss a rock or hit something with a really big sword.
edit: Also, getting hit with Archer's Memory or Supernatural Possession wasn't a death sentence unless you stood there and took it, and having Nimbus of Force wasn't particularly guaranteed to keep you alive. With Legacy devices, an Ice Grenade can hit 10k easily with a Soldier. God forbid someone with Legion gear and R9s with a passive that boosts Cold damage uses it. You can flood a map with dinosaurs by running a bunch of Teleiosaur Pheremones. You can do really damaging knockbacks in melee with a level 40 Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You can have a constant BCR effect going with Necrulitic Elixir until you get hit with Trauma (this isn't much of a problem because Trauma is so common in the PvPer's toolkit) and Eruption makes you invincible during its animation. Come on!
I agree with you that these devices are indeed powerful. No doubt. They are also more powerful and useful than BM devices. However, that is not to say there is no "balance". Since everyone can still farm/pay for them, they are available. They are always sitting at the drifter stores waiting for you to unlock. There are those who pays to unlock the legacy device kits and sell some of the devices on zone or AH which they do not need/use in their builds. BM were events that you had to wait a long time before you get to farm it.
Powerful as they are, they raise the game play to the next level. As I mentioned before, on-alert together with devices, skills, specs, mods etc is basically a level cap increase without actually having to raise the actual cap itself.
So, what if those 5 device slots are power slots? What if the list of devices are T5 powers which you can choose from, does not require energy and you can select them multiple times? What if the XP requirements for levelling up is now so high that it requires you to farm XP as long as it does now for you to farm a legacy device (which is not very long as some has pointed out unless you are going for the most expensive device in game). I have 8 legacy devices and total Gs I spent is about 5500g (actually less if you bargain well).
As someone pointed out, everyone has 5 device slots. So it is fair in that sense. Everyone can choose any powers and any devices, granted freeform of course which also needs to be farmed. Your contention here is you do not wish to farm.
However, there was never a time when PvP does not require any sort of farming. People were farming Serpent Lantern for the longest time to get the blue gear, purples from Cosmics were just too rare and did not necessarily fit the builds. Then when acclaim gears came out, people farmed for those. People farmed and sold nimbus. Nimbus is not useful now because the damage level has increased and far exceeded its shielding. However, it was a useful buffer in the past and you can see people spamming them in ZA. over team mates or the zombies.
Players are now latching onto these devices for PvE AND also PvP. Simple reason, they are your new,latest more powerful T5 powers.
Yes, those devices were indeed originally meant as primary gears. However, the landscape has changed. The level of the playing field has risen. Players have been calling for a level cap increase all the time. Well this is the closest you are going to get I guess. Agreed, it will give an edge for players who are willing to pay real cash. However, this is one of the problems with F2P. These microtransaction becomes the main form of financing to support the free players. P2W is not necessarily the only form of microtransaction but it is indeed lucrative. In another thread someone suggested microtransactions for only cosmetic stuff and selling in mass at a low price. I have explained that that will be ideal but may not be possible given the profile and size of the CO market (I do not have any data or evidence, the marketing people of CO will be the ones who have to do the analysis). Furthermore, that is simply shifting the attention away from P2W to P2LG (pay to look good).
It splits between many points of view and it's about where you locate the balance. Technically, yes, there's true balance, all Freeforms can pick the best stuff around and rock with it, others will find some issues when between roles, and then between passives and power schemes compared to all the other powers you get to see when you watch behind you after leaving the Powerhouse. Frankly I wouldn't have minded the FotMs if they weren't so damn boring to play.
In the end, between two boring builds it comes down to luck: Who dodges the most, knocks the most, crits the most, all of them at the best times.
I've made an extra long duel with a random FotM ruin yesterday:
His scheme was to knockspam me with Geyser while landing Ebon Ruins and a correct Strafing Run when I'm out of defenses.
My scheme was to land a correct Roomsweeper knockup and trigger an undodged Unleashed Rage + Haymaker at the same time when he was out of defenses.
Any of the knocks above wouldn't work, none of us could be defeated. So we keep trying, all the time, while hoping for eachother to keep failing to achieve the key features of his combo, the time for us to get our combo working.
I don't know about the gameplay, but it's quite redundant because the key features of most of combos can't be calculated.
Devices add an extra oomph to that lame gameplay, but doesn't do anything good or bad because the whole scheme is already rotten to the bone.
The difference between Bloodmoon devices and Legacy devices are pretty big.
BM devices generally have larger cooldowns and can be found in event gameplay that used to occur every month and still sometimes happen. Getting a BM device is much easier in that regard. BM devices were still on the market last time I checked. I packed quite a few for PvE and PvP.
Not to mention BM devices of the same type have shared cooldowns (and if i recall correctly prevented you from equipping more than one at a time in the first place!)
Legacy Devices are locked behind a gamble or locked behind a crapton of farming and were not balanced for use as true devices. Rather, they were balanced to be equipped in a Primary equipment slot where you sacrificed stats to use the devices, impacting general performance so you could gain the ability to toss a rock or hit something with a really big sword.
edit: Also, getting hit with Archer's Memory or Supernatural Possession wasn't a death sentence unless you stood there and took it, and having Nimbus of Force wasn't particularly guaranteed to keep you alive. With Legacy devices, an Ice Grenade can hit 10k easily with a Soldier. God forbid someone with Legion gear and R9s with a passive that boosts Cold damage uses it. You can flood a map with dinosaurs by running a bunch of Teleiosaur Pheremones. You can do really damaging knockbacks in melee with a level 40 Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You can have a constant BCR effect going with Necrulitic Elixir until you get hit with Trauma (this isn't much of a problem because Trauma is so common in the PvPer's toolkit) and Eruption makes you invincible during its animation. Come on!
I do agree with you, on the shared cooldown part. Every device of the same type should have it. Just like PWE handled our backup devices, the Legacy devices also should get a small review.
This next level of progression is dumb and I'm glad I'm not a part of it, then. There, I said it.
The wonderful thing about farming Freon was that you could make some good money on the side if you got nice gear that you didn't need (and every secondary was a free 73 N, that added up fast) and access to Serpent Lantern was free with a promotional code (now it's freely available, so that point is moot) You'd eventually get what you want from Freon, either by buying the gear off of the auction house or getting it directly from Freon. By the way, I almost threw a party when I got some nice perception items, and I danced happily when + 36 secondaries dropped.
I can't possibly consider devices as 'T5s' because they're usable items and the fact that you can get TERRIBLE prizes from the Drifter grab bags. Hello, Plasmite! Some T5 you are, huh? And how about that PRIMUS Spark Shield? Farming Freon, there were no booby prizes. You always got something mildly useful to somebody out there, and if it actually wasn't any good, hey, that's at least 1.4 G to go to a better item. Acclaim farming had queues popping with frequency, and while PvP was filled with people who didn't actually want to PvP, at least it saw a somewhat unique playerbase that made every matchup different and unique.
If these devices were reasonably adjusted and added into actual power selection, without any gambling or farming involved (poor Silver players with Freeform slots are pretty much boned unless they find a patient person selling the device they want) I would gladly support them in there. Munitions could use a good control power like Ice Grenade, Plasmite could be further developed into powerful, remotely detonatable C4, etc. etc.
As they are now, though? Devices are toxic. If PvP was on life support before, legacy devices are akin to replacing PvP's oxygen tank with pure angelclown farts.
Nobody's going to queue for PvP because everybody is farming PvE so they can become strong in PvP. At least before On Alet people farmed PvP to be strong in PvE and PvP.
This next level of progression is dumb and I'm glad I'm not a part of it, then. There, I said it.
The wonderful thing about farming Freon was that you could make some good money on the side if you got nice gear that you didn't need (and every secondary was a free 73 N, that added up fast) and access to Serpent Lantern was free with a promotional code (now it's freely available, so that point is moot) You'd eventually get what you want from Freon, either by buying the gear off of the auction house or getting it directly from Freon. By the way, I almost threw a party when I got some nice perception items, and I danced happily when + 36 secondaries dropped.
I can't possibly consider devices as 'T5s' because they're usable items and the fact that you can get TERRIBLE prizes from the Drifter grab bags. Hello, Plasmite! Some T5 you are, huh? And how about that PRIMUS Spark Shield? Farming Freon, there were no booby prizes. You always got something mildly useful to somebody out there, and if it actually wasn't any good, hey, that's at least 1.4 G to go to a better item. Acclaim farming had queues popping with frequency, and while PvP was filled with people who didn't actually want to PvP, at least it saw a somewhat unique playerbase that made every matchup different and unique.
If these devices were reasonably adjusted and added into actual power selection, without any gambling or farming involved (poor Silver players with Freeform slots are pretty much boned unless they find a patient person selling the device they want) I would gladly support them in there. Munitions could use a good control power like Ice Grenade, Plasmite could be further developed into powerful, remotely detonatable C4, etc. etc.
As they are now, though? Devices are toxic. If PvP was on life support before, legacy devices are akin to replacing PvP's oxygen tank with pure angelclown farts.
Nobody's going to queue for PvP because everybody is farming PvE so they can become strong in PvP. At least before On Alet people farmed PvP to be strong in PvE and PvP.
There are some points which you have pointed out. Firstly, so it is reasonable to expect farming for gear or devices to some extent in order to equip for PvP. That was not your initial stand. While farming SL gave you 73N did it occur to you farming grab alerts gave you 3.4G each time?
Indeed, it becomes more tedious for silver players to buy off AH because of the G limit but it is possible to store the Gs in a shared bank. Just recently, I helped a silver player make a 600g purchase off the AH and I even help her top up some Gs not much just 5Gs. However, this is possible.
I am not suggesting you have to try your luck on locked boxes. In fact, I do not like the random chance. I bought all my devices with Gs. There are however those who like to try their luck. They may buy keys with Zen or from other players with Gs. There are also people who buy key with Zen to sell for Gs. I am sure you have come across this in the game.
I am not saying anything but what comes across from your post seems that you do not wish to have to pay real money and any form of farming has to be very quick. However, in a F2P game like CO we need paying customers who will spend money instead of time. If farming is made too easy, questionite value will just drop and so will Gs value. It comes back to the same issue. How much money is time saving worth? Without paying customers, free players will not even have an option to play free.
You are right to say that everyone is farming pve and not queueing pvp but it is not because of devices but the lack of substantial reward from pvp. However, if we went back to the system like acclaim gears then you will have floods of pve focused players trying to pvp which which may or at not be a good thing. Instead if both pve and pvp queues can give comparable rewards then pve players can continue to pve and those who prefer to pvp can pvp to farm the same things.
Not true, even before the legacy kits got released, the BM devices made the difference.
Start farming, guys.
No thanks, plenty of other games with better pvp where you don't have to feel like a joke for talking about being competitive. As such, I feel no need to farm in this one, because that's a long term investment on my part, and investing in something that the devs themselves have invested little to nothing into just seems foolish.
So have fun farming... if you're lucky, they don't have a "next tier" in store for you to farm for all over again in your desperate quest to be the biggest fish in this puddle. The end result of your efforts is, after all, that people have less respect for you, and most just won't duel you.
But that seems to be the end goal for all "real pvpers" in this game right? To completely kill off any remaining interest in pvp so they can claim they were the "last man standing".
I am not saying anything but what comes across from your post seems that you do not wish to have to pay real money and any form of farming has to be very quick. However, in a F2P game like CO we need paying customers who will spend money instead of time. If farming is made too easy, questionite value will just drop and so will Gs value. It comes back to the same issue. How much money is time saving worth? Without paying customers, free players will not even have an option to play free.
Sadly there is some truth in this, the old 20/80 rule. Sure, 80% of players are becoming fed up with the nonsense and refusing to play along, but those 20% who are left will throw money in the pot for any advantage they can get their hands onto. The problem is, that 20% is then helping to drive away the other 80% permanently.
Of course, I think it's safe to assume that the devs want players to be driven away from pvp so that they don't have to work on it, and are glad to have that 20% helping them do it while throwing money in the pot.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Sadly there is some truth in this, the old 20/80 rule. Sure, 80% of players are becoming fed up with the nonsense and refusing to play along, but those 20% who are left will throw money in the pot for any advantage they can get their hands onto. The problem is, that 20% is then helping to drive away the other 80% permanently.
Of course, I think it's safe to assume that the devs want players to be driven away from pvp so that they don't have to work on it, and are glad to have that 20% helping them do it while throwing money in the pot.
I shall not comment on player number or ratio because any attempts to will be purely a guesswork. You are right that we are losing the regular PvPers. However, I cannot be certain that it is because of the power creep, the lack of rewards or the lack of ability to move with the power creep via PvP.
Perhaps some (or maybe just one) devs want PvP dead. However I can be certain that from a business perspective, a company will want to maximise profits. Remember the good old acclaim gears day? We had PvP queues of all sorts popping so frequently. This goes to show that people wants top end gear. When these top end gear are available only from acclaim stores, there is no money to be made other than selling acclaim boosts which I do not see many or any people using. However, this does not mean that PvP should not give the level of farming rewards that PvE gives, although threads have been written about how players can fix games to gain these resources faster.
There are still plenty of duels going around. It is simply much easier to start a duel than to pop a HG queue because no one wants to queue and wait for rewards that are near worthless. On those rare occasions when the queue does pop, it is dominated by what many have claimed, those who have got everything (gear, mods, devices, FotM) it takes to win. The learning curve is indeed steep and painful and there is just no incentives to win or to be resilient and learn/build/farm to win and so they avoid. Alternatively, they can end up like a spoilt brat who cries foul.
Except, there's no "No Devices" hero games queue... there is however, a "No Freeforms" hero games queue.
Even so, the AT queue hardly ever pops before on-alert or legacy devices unless players group queue together. It was as dead back then as unrestricted is now.
And despite the gap between ATs and FFs, silver players would queue for unrestricted. This gap is not unlike FFs using devices and those not. Except back then, acclaim was worth something and the rewards were justified.
Players do want to compete if they are able, farm even. I've known silver players who has religiously farmed for multiple FF slots to compete in pvp, even some of the posters in this thread. And $50 or 5000 zen per FF slot isn't exactly a short grind.
Those who don't believe in farming still have the choice to participate or don't. But this only shows that the power gap is only secondary to justifiable rewards as to why hero games is in its current state.
Archetype hero games wasn't dead. lol... Maybe tier 4 was, but I could join a game any time I wanted to. I just didn't want to join tier 3 because pest ruined everything.
Those who spend so much time farming are putting themselves at risk; they are not guaranteed those devices, and it even says so in the agreement they signed. Anything could go wrong, and it does.
I don't understand the argument that "It is available to everyone, therefore it is fair". If there was a device that killed any opponent in 200 feet, would that be fair, even if anyone could get it for cheap? I bet PvP would be so much fun then.
That reasoning also leads to a very small selective group of PvPers with all the right stuff. You should NOT have to farm up 5 legacy devices to put up a fight. I'm not saying that you will be the best PvPer, but it should never come down to who has the better devices...
People seem to forget this thing called balance, because CO certainly has. It is a crazy concept were they make most powers combinations equal, and anything game changing is fixed. Maybe people should play other games then come back to CO and see just how off it is.
I don't understand the argument that "It is available to everyone, therefore it is fair."
That's because fuzzy "logic" can't be understood. "Men will do anything, no matter how absurd, to stop from facing their souls." ---Carl Jung
That reasoning also leads to a very small selective group of PvPers with all the right stuff. You should NOT have to farm up 5 legacy devices to put up a fight. I'm not saying that you will be the best PvPer, but it should never come down to who has the better devices...
Devices aren't necessary and they don't improve their game. "It will be difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first." ---Miyamoto Musashi
People seem to forget this thing called balance, because CO certainly has. It is a crazy concept were they make most powers combinations equal, and anything game changing is fixed. Maybe people should play other games then come back to CO and see just how off it is.
seems to me if you took devices away from pvp people would just cry about something else.. they would complain about peoples gear or say they are using op broken powers or im a silver and you are a gold.. always something... guess what im saying is no matter what you do there will always be people crying.. I say to them go buy some dinos and eruptions and pulse generators and ice nades and get with the program... using devices does not make you a noob or a bad player devices are not going anywhere so deal with it or stop pvping... just saying.... most just cant afford them and is what it realy boils down too.
Sais who? A guy who had his devices, gear and build given to him and still, without the help of 3 doesn't stand up for.more than 10 secs?
After all you haven't been playing HG for more than a month...
Thanks for necroing a thread .
Sais who? A guy who had his devices, gear and build given to him and still, without the help of 3 doesn't stand up for.more than 10 secs?
After all you haven't been playing HG for more than a month...
Thanks for necroing a thread .
You are one of the problems with the game, the fact rests that he has not been playing HG for more the a month. Doesn't that mean we should be welcoming him instead of raging about him using devices when you well know you have more eruptions than he has. (we counted 3 eruptions and 2 ice grenades on your toon) Stop moaning and get over it.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
maybe i just can't differentiate one nuclear bomb being thrown at me from the next, but I don't really see devices as such a big problem. I see the pink bubbly thingies (npg i think) being used but that doesn't seem so harmful. and im sure ive seen ice grenade being thrown at me and it wasnt such a big deal. raptors, well theyre not such a big deal when you have your targeting settings right. the immunity thing kinda makes me sad... I think anytime you are immune you should also not be able to do damage to other people, but whatever people are already immune to seven people attacking them all at the same time so its not anything new
i dont have any devices yet and none of them seem that useful to me other than ice grenade maybe, so i guess i don't really see what the big deal is
maybe i just can't differentiate one nuclear bomb being thrown at me from the next, but I don't really see devices as such a big problem. I see the pink bubbly thingies (npg i think) being used but that doesn't seem so harmful, so if you can get me still long enough to get me with them hey good job well played. and im sure ive seen ice grenade being thrown at me and it wasnt such a big deal. raptors, well theyre not such a big deal when you have your targeting settings right. the immunity thing kinda makes me sad... I think anytime you are immune you should also not be able to do damage to other people, but whatever people are already immune to seven people attacking them all at the same time so its not anything new
i dont have any devices yet and none of them seem that useful to me other than ice grenade maybe, so i guess i don't really see what the big deal is. devices are neat but I dont really feel like I have to farm for them or risk being nerfed
You are one of the problems with the game, the fact rests that he has not been playing HG for more the a month. Doesn't that mean we should be welcoming him instead of raging about him using devices when you well know you have more eruptions than he has. (we counted 3 eruptions and 2 ice grenades on your toon) Stop moaning and get over it.
Exactly, someone that plays for so little is in no position to tell PvP ers:"use devices or get screwed", and thats said from someone who has 5 eruptions. And no, I won't be welcoming someone who likes trying to farm with a team, but rages when 2 go against him...as I said before, an eye for an eye.
(Considering to stop farming you guys since I might have overdone it a bit, and i'm not that kinda guy....just beware, if I get you , oe hear you attempted team/farming in bash, what will be coming will be 10 times as rough and fierce...play nice.)
@spinnytop, I like your attitude and respect your opinion on this topic, even though I partly disagree...what's your in-game handle/toon name? Not sure if we've met.
Exactly, someone that plays for so little is in no position to tell PvP ers:"use devices or get screwed", and thats said from someone who has 5 eruptions. And no, I won't be welcoming someone who likes trying to farm with a team, but rages when 2 go against him...as I said before, an eye for an eye.
(Considering to stop farming you guys since I might have overdone it a bit, and i'm not that kinda guy....just beware, if I get you , oe hear you attempted team/farming in bash, what will be coming will be 10 times as rough and fierce...play nice.)
This is why I prefer UTC so much more, people that take BASH seriously are stupid. No matter if there is a team in there or not the fact is that you could easily just farm one guy who you know is easy for you to kill or your build counters. When in UTC if both teams have a good healer you find suddenly the game gets so much more fun in pvp. The problem is it can be kind of hard for us to attack each other, now if you want we could not even go into bash and let the game die a little more but we know each others builds and so it gets sort of pointless if we attacked each other. (even though I get attacked by aoe and raptors by my team anyway plus I have lucy / rocket who loves to kill me easily as my build is really weak against TGM at the moment) Just stop whining pointlessly on the forums, if you didn't ignore me we could have actually talked about it in game without disturbing everyone.
Anyway back to the forum topic, I agree that eruption needs a slight nerf for example something that makes you hit 70% less damage or maybe if it snares you loads or cuts your TP off while it is on. I wouldn't agree to a total nerf though due to how much global it would cost all the players.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
people that take BASH seriously are stupid..
I find it funny how your opinion changed dramatically since last Saturday, when you would bring a team of 4 to attack us...I wonder what happened....
This one was over, before it even begun.
people that take BASH seriously are stupid..
I find it funny how your opinion changed dramatically since last Saturday, when you would bring a team of 4 to attack us...I wonder what happened....
This one was over, before it even begun.
I didn't bring a team just to beat people, we just so happened to all go in. (I'm sure it was only 3 of us in that one though, I'm not sure if bane was online) You do understand that there is only 6 people, about 8 toons, in Team vnm at the moment, it just so happens that when we are all online we want to do some pvp, and it also just so happens that there were not enough other people online to do any other pvp. Why does everyone seem to think that when I go into bash or anyone for that matter that we are going to see that certain people are in there and call all our friends in to beat you up. That isn't how it works, if everyone on my friends list didn't go into bash ever, it would half the amount of people who go into bash.
I have said sorry about that one bash we did but you seem to want to drag this out rather pointlessly and make yourself look tough by saying how you can take teams on. This is the final thing I'll say to you, if you want to talk please un ignore me and we can stop the spam.
_____________________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
DEVICES ARE FINE. THEY ARE AWESOME AND THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE SO STOP CRYING PANZIES! ADAPT OR GTFO!
^ Disclaimer: The above was a joke for all you serious sally's.
Seriously though, first it was powers, now devices. What's next? Gear? My god, some of you are such crybabies. Devices are all fine. I don't like when people eruption spam (excluding wesley because eruption is part of his build), but you don't see me crying about it. Sters and III spam eruption on me all bash/stronghold/UTC, yet I still kill them. (No offense Sters, just making a point). Real PvPers who know how to play properly can counter every device that's out there. Period.
Devices are here, and they are here to stay. You can either adapt to the changes and accept that more and more of PvP is becoming device based. Or you can live in denial and keep crying and losing. Your choice.
This is coming from someone owns multiple copies of these said devices but can and often does play without them. But it is fun sometimes to use them
If you wanna start crying about something, lets all cry to bring back imbue so that there can actually be a variety of GOOD, EFFECTIVE builds and not the same old quarry/2gm/ER/AOPM/SR/Defile/Pestilence/Chest Beam/Shoulder Launcher builds running around. Hell, I'll even cry with you. In fact, I'll be the first and loudest to cry.
Sais who? A guy who had his devices, gear and build given to him and still, without the help of 3 doesn't stand up for.more than 10 secs?
After all you haven't been playing HG for more than a month...
Thanks for necroing a thread .
Silly Sters this thread was started by a mummy cat, this thread was necro to begin with.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
DEVICES ARE FINE. THEY ARE AWESOME AND THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE SO STOP CRYING PANZIES! ADAPT OR GTFO!
^ Disclaimer: The above was a joke for all you serious sally's.
Seriously though, first it was powers, now devices. What's next? Gear? My god, some of you are such crybabies. Devices are all fine. I don't like when people eruption spam (excluding wesley because eruption is part of his build), but you don't see me crying about it. Sters and III spam eruption on me all bash/stronghold/UTC, yet I still kill them. (No offense Sters, just making a point). Real PvPers who know how to play properly can counter every device that's out there. Period.
Devices are here, and they are here to stay. You can either adapt to the changes and accept that more and more of PvP is becoming device based. Or you can live in denial and keep crying and losing. Your choice.
This is coming from someone owns multiple copies of these said devices but can and often does play without them. But it is fun sometimes to use them
If you wanna start crying about something, lets all cry to bring back imbue so that there can actually be a variety of GOOD, EFFECTIVE builds and not the same old quarry/2gm/ER/AOPM/SR/Defile/Pestilence/Chest Beam/Shoulder Launcher builds running around. Hell, I'll even cry with you. In fact, I'll be the first and loudest to cry.
Bradd, this thread isn't about devices anymore. Since it was necro'd, it's primarily been about teaming up on people in bash. Do you even read stuff anymore or do you just barge in at the first opportunity to call everyone a crybaby for having an opinion?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Brad, actually I actively avoid using eruptions in hero games even though yes, it is primarily what my toon will be best maximised for. Hahaha, in fact I got killed 3 times in BASH yesterday LOL.
Then I had a bit of fun as the last player in ZA rotating my eruption before I stop and let them kill me.
As I said, I am hardly interested in the win. I just want people to play nice and make HGs enjoyable for everyone even if that means they all gank me.
Smoochie, someone did mention about nerfing devices although primarily the thread was necroed and most part was about ganking. Anyway, yes devices and ganking, discussed till the cows have gone home
It seems sometimes when you go in with friends in PvP, there is a general tendency to avoid attacking your own friends not because it is a team ganking arrangement but simply because the other person is your friend. I used to have a bit of problem but I overcame it. We go in to have fun and it is really alright to attack someone even if that person is your friend. I actively attack Mal, Sters, Brad, Green etc and they are all on my friends list as long as they are on the top of the chart.
Speaking of which, in case anyone thinks I keep targeting them, then that's only because you have the most kills with least or no deaths which means you are good. That's my prefer mode of play, not to be the first with 10 kills.
devices MUST be locked out in pvp to ensure a fair fight for all players. pvp should be about builds and concepts, not eruptions and necrullitic elixirs.
I knowingly make my decision never to use a device in PvP even though I go up against many players who use the devices and I know the advantage it gives them.
So I can't really complain that someone else is using a device that I chose not to use.
I don't think they need to be banned...but I would never complain if they came out with a device free PvP.
I suggest banning legion gears from PvP, they are more OP than the devices.
Also ban ebon ruin, 2gm, quarry, AoPM, UR and SR. I have all of those and still want 'em banned!:biggrin:
I don't even PvP and I think that banning devices is a silly idea, they are in the game and meant to be used. Yes is there a difference between someone (like myself) who has a concept build and character appropriate attacks and someone who is just aiming for the biggest and fastest smash. But you get that in any game, with any gear and any build...
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Everyone talks only about some power and devices.
True OP is... Well, I'm only sure that banning Devices and nerfing powers won't solve anything but other nerf-cry just starts again. :rolleyes:
Comments
BM devices generally have larger cooldowns and can be found in event gameplay that used to occur every month and still sometimes happen. Getting a BM device is much easier in that regard. BM devices were still on the market last time I checked. I packed quite a few for PvE and PvP.
Not to mention BM devices of the same type have shared cooldowns (and if i recall correctly prevented you from equipping more than one at a time in the first place!)
Legacy Devices are locked behind a gamble or locked behind a crapton of farming and were not balanced for use as true devices. Rather, they were balanced to be equipped in a Primary equipment slot where you sacrificed stats to use the devices, impacting general performance so you could gain the ability to toss a rock or hit something with a really big sword.
edit: Also, getting hit with Archer's Memory or Supernatural Possession wasn't a death sentence unless you stood there and took it, and having Nimbus of Force wasn't particularly guaranteed to keep you alive. With Legacy devices, an Ice Grenade can hit 10k easily with a Soldier. God forbid someone with Legion gear and R9s with a passive that boosts Cold damage uses it. You can flood a map with dinosaurs by running a bunch of Teleiosaur Pheremones. You can do really damaging knockbacks in melee with a level 40 Neuroelectric Pulse Generator. You can have a constant BCR effect going with Necrulitic Elixir until you get hit with Trauma (this isn't much of a problem because Trauma is so common in the PvPer's toolkit) and Eruption makes you invincible during its animation. Come on!
Balance?! What is this madness?
The player that made the most impression was a Blade that was winning against even Soldiers and Behemoths (that was before the unleashed came about), but that player spent most of his time farming for that advantage.
Nowadays, most of us will agree that for a silver to participate in the full experience of pvp, he is required to farm for a Freeform slot.
Yes, a silver player has to farm or spend money for an advantage, not unlike obtaining devices.
The point is, in any scenario, to participate amongst the top tier of pvpers, these are the pvpers that are willing to spend the resources and make the effort to have any kind of advantages.
Everyone is given the same opportunity to obtain those advantages, but no one is forced to participate at that level.
Likewise with any aspect of this game, don't like it? You don't have to do it. Balance is one thing, removing something because another feels 'forced' into it because he himself wants to participate is just clouded judgment.
Which reminds me, this is no different than that guy in the other sub-forum asking to nerf other players because they are overpowered and kills too fast, and he didn't get a chance to contribute/participate in alerts (or open missions). This is as ludicrous as asking them to ban 5 pheremones in PVE so that naysayers can feel important about themselves.
You've never seen me use Force Geyser. I don't like it, I prefer lunge / chest beam.
Actually, the forum user honestresearcher is not someone who does not farm/pay or perhaps he has accumulated plenty of stipends. Whatever the case, he has at least a toon with 5 teleiosaurus pheromones which is the most expensive (in terms of globals) and sought after device in game at the moment.
I agree with you that these devices are indeed powerful. No doubt. They are also more powerful and useful than BM devices. However, that is not to say there is no "balance". Since everyone can still farm/pay for them, they are available. They are always sitting at the drifter stores waiting for you to unlock. There are those who pays to unlock the legacy device kits and sell some of the devices on zone or AH which they do not need/use in their builds. BM were events that you had to wait a long time before you get to farm it.
Powerful as they are, they raise the game play to the next level. As I mentioned before, on-alert together with devices, skills, specs, mods etc is basically a level cap increase without actually having to raise the actual cap itself.
So, what if those 5 device slots are power slots? What if the list of devices are T5 powers which you can choose from, does not require energy and you can select them multiple times? What if the XP requirements for levelling up is now so high that it requires you to farm XP as long as it does now for you to farm a legacy device (which is not very long as some has pointed out unless you are going for the most expensive device in game). I have 8 legacy devices and total Gs I spent is about 5500g (actually less if you bargain well).
As someone pointed out, everyone has 5 device slots. So it is fair in that sense. Everyone can choose any powers and any devices, granted freeform of course which also needs to be farmed. Your contention here is you do not wish to farm.
However, there was never a time when PvP does not require any sort of farming. People were farming Serpent Lantern for the longest time to get the blue gear, purples from Cosmics were just too rare and did not necessarily fit the builds. Then when acclaim gears came out, people farmed for those. People farmed and sold nimbus. Nimbus is not useful now because the damage level has increased and far exceeded its shielding. However, it was a useful buffer in the past and you can see people spamming them in ZA. over team mates or the zombies.
Players are now latching onto these devices for PvE AND also PvP. Simple reason, they are your new,latest more powerful T5 powers.
Yes, those devices were indeed originally meant as primary gears. However, the landscape has changed. The level of the playing field has risen. Players have been calling for a level cap increase all the time. Well this is the closest you are going to get I guess. Agreed, it will give an edge for players who are willing to pay real cash. However, this is one of the problems with F2P. These microtransaction becomes the main form of financing to support the free players. P2W is not necessarily the only form of microtransaction but it is indeed lucrative. In another thread someone suggested microtransactions for only cosmetic stuff and selling in mass at a low price. I have explained that that will be ideal but may not be possible given the profile and size of the CO market (I do not have any data or evidence, the marketing people of CO will be the ones who have to do the analysis). Furthermore, that is simply shifting the attention away from P2W to P2LG (pay to look good).
In the end, between two boring builds it comes down to luck: Who dodges the most, knocks the most, crits the most, all of them at the best times.
I've made an extra long duel with a random FotM ruin yesterday:
His scheme was to knockspam me with Geyser while landing Ebon Ruins and a correct Strafing Run when I'm out of defenses.
My scheme was to land a correct Roomsweeper knockup and trigger an undodged Unleashed Rage + Haymaker at the same time when he was out of defenses.
Any of the knocks above wouldn't work, none of us could be defeated. So we keep trying, all the time, while hoping for eachother to keep failing to achieve the key features of his combo, the time for us to get our combo working.
I don't know about the gameplay, but it's quite redundant because the key features of most of combos can't be calculated.
Devices add an extra oomph to that lame gameplay, but doesn't do anything good or bad because the whole scheme is already rotten to the bone.
I do agree with you, on the shared cooldown part. Every device of the same type should have it. Just like PWE handled our backup devices, the Legacy devices also should get a small review.
The wonderful thing about farming Freon was that you could make some good money on the side if you got nice gear that you didn't need (and every secondary was a free 73 N, that added up fast) and access to Serpent Lantern was free with a promotional code (now it's freely available, so that point is moot) You'd eventually get what you want from Freon, either by buying the gear off of the auction house or getting it directly from Freon. By the way, I almost threw a party when I got some nice perception items, and I danced happily when + 36 secondaries dropped.
I can't possibly consider devices as 'T5s' because they're usable items and the fact that you can get TERRIBLE prizes from the Drifter grab bags. Hello, Plasmite! Some T5 you are, huh? And how about that PRIMUS Spark Shield? Farming Freon, there were no booby prizes. You always got something mildly useful to somebody out there, and if it actually wasn't any good, hey, that's at least 1.4 G to go to a better item. Acclaim farming had queues popping with frequency, and while PvP was filled with people who didn't actually want to PvP, at least it saw a somewhat unique playerbase that made every matchup different and unique.
If these devices were reasonably adjusted and added into actual power selection, without any gambling or farming involved (poor Silver players with Freeform slots are pretty much boned unless they find a patient person selling the device they want) I would gladly support them in there. Munitions could use a good control power like Ice Grenade, Plasmite could be further developed into powerful, remotely detonatable C4, etc. etc.
As they are now, though? Devices are toxic. If PvP was on life support before, legacy devices are akin to replacing PvP's oxygen tank with pure angelclown farts.
Nobody's going to queue for PvP because everybody is farming PvE so they can become strong in PvP. At least before On Alet people farmed PvP to be strong in PvE and PvP.
There are some points which you have pointed out. Firstly, so it is reasonable to expect farming for gear or devices to some extent in order to equip for PvP. That was not your initial stand. While farming SL gave you 73N did it occur to you farming grab alerts gave you 3.4G each time?
Indeed, it becomes more tedious for silver players to buy off AH because of the G limit but it is possible to store the Gs in a shared bank. Just recently, I helped a silver player make a 600g purchase off the AH and I even help her top up some Gs not much just 5Gs. However, this is possible.
I am not suggesting you have to try your luck on locked boxes. In fact, I do not like the random chance. I bought all my devices with Gs. There are however those who like to try their luck. They may buy keys with Zen or from other players with Gs. There are also people who buy key with Zen to sell for Gs. I am sure you have come across this in the game.
I am not saying anything but what comes across from your post seems that you do not wish to have to pay real money and any form of farming has to be very quick. However, in a F2P game like CO we need paying customers who will spend money instead of time. If farming is made too easy, questionite value will just drop and so will Gs value. It comes back to the same issue. How much money is time saving worth? Without paying customers, free players will not even have an option to play free.
You are right to say that everyone is farming pve and not queueing pvp but it is not because of devices but the lack of substantial reward from pvp. However, if we went back to the system like acclaim gears then you will have floods of pve focused players trying to pvp which which may or at not be a good thing. Instead if both pve and pvp queues can give comparable rewards then pve players can continue to pve and those who prefer to pvp can pvp to farm the same things.
No thanks, plenty of other games with better pvp where you don't have to feel like a joke for talking about being competitive. As such, I feel no need to farm in this one, because that's a long term investment on my part, and investing in something that the devs themselves have invested little to nothing into just seems foolish.
So have fun farming... if you're lucky, they don't have a "next tier" in store for you to farm for all over again in your desperate quest to be the biggest fish in this puddle. The end result of your efforts is, after all, that people have less respect for you, and most just won't duel you.
But that seems to be the end goal for all "real pvpers" in this game right? To completely kill off any remaining interest in pvp so they can claim they were the "last man standing".
Except, there's no "No Devices" hero games queue... there is however, a "No Freeforms" hero games queue.
Sadly there is some truth in this, the old 20/80 rule. Sure, 80% of players are becoming fed up with the nonsense and refusing to play along, but those 20% who are left will throw money in the pot for any advantage they can get their hands onto. The problem is, that 20% is then helping to drive away the other 80% permanently.
Of course, I think it's safe to assume that the devs want players to be driven away from pvp so that they don't have to work on it, and are glad to have that 20% helping them do it while throwing money in the pot.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
This pretty much sums up my pvp experience (outside of zombies, that is). This "device ban" didn't last very long. :P
I shall not comment on player number or ratio because any attempts to will be purely a guesswork. You are right that we are losing the regular PvPers. However, I cannot be certain that it is because of the power creep, the lack of rewards or the lack of ability to move with the power creep via PvP.
Perhaps some (or maybe just one) devs want PvP dead. However I can be certain that from a business perspective, a company will want to maximise profits. Remember the good old acclaim gears day? We had PvP queues of all sorts popping so frequently. This goes to show that people wants top end gear. When these top end gear are available only from acclaim stores, there is no money to be made other than selling acclaim boosts which I do not see many or any people using. However, this does not mean that PvP should not give the level of farming rewards that PvE gives, although threads have been written about how players can fix games to gain these resources faster.
There are still plenty of duels going around. It is simply much easier to start a duel than to pop a HG queue because no one wants to queue and wait for rewards that are near worthless. On those rare occasions when the queue does pop, it is dominated by what many have claimed, those who have got everything (gear, mods, devices, FotM) it takes to win. The learning curve is indeed steep and painful and there is just no incentives to win or to be resilient and learn/build/farm to win and so they avoid. Alternatively, they can end up like a spoilt brat who cries foul.
And despite the gap between ATs and FFs, silver players would queue for unrestricted. This gap is not unlike FFs using devices and those not. Except back then, acclaim was worth something and the rewards were justified.
Players do want to compete if they are able, farm even. I've known silver players who has religiously farmed for multiple FF slots to compete in pvp, even some of the posters in this thread. And $50 or 5000 zen per FF slot isn't exactly a short grind.
Those who don't believe in farming still have the choice to participate or don't. But this only shows that the power gap is only secondary to justifiable rewards as to why hero games is in its current state.
Those who spend so much time farming are putting themselves at risk; they are not guaranteed those devices, and it even says so in the agreement they signed. Anything could go wrong, and it does.
I like variations with Devices rather then that.
With out devices, copy build are easy to win.
With Devices, there will be many variations of build.
Well, choose anything, PvP are just dead.
That reasoning also leads to a very small selective group of PvPers with all the right stuff. You should NOT have to farm up 5 legacy devices to put up a fight. I'm not saying that you will be the best PvPer, but it should never come down to who has the better devices...
People seem to forget this thing called balance, because CO certainly has. It is a crazy concept were they make most powers combinations equal, and anything game changing is fixed. Maybe people should play other games then come back to CO and see just how off it is.
We have no many reason for doing PvP.
Wuts ACC? Is it tasty or something good?
I have 3M ACC and its just number of amount. Useless.
Its horse meat, tasty if your Irish.
Git Gud M8!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
That's because fuzzy "logic" can't be understood. "Men will do anything, no matter how absurd, to stop from facing their souls." ---Carl Jung
Devices aren't necessary and they don't improve their game. "It will be difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first." ---Miyamoto Musashi
"Common sense is not so common." ---Voltaire
^_~
After all you haven't been playing HG for more than a month...
Thanks for necroing a thread .
You are one of the problems with the game, the fact rests that he has not been playing HG for more the a month. Doesn't that mean we should be welcoming him instead of raging about him using devices when you well know you have more eruptions than he has. (we counted 3 eruptions and 2 ice grenades on your toon) Stop moaning and get over it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
i dont have any devices yet and none of them seem that useful to me other than ice grenade maybe, so i guess i don't really see what the big deal is
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
i dont have any devices yet and none of them seem that useful to me other than ice grenade maybe, so i guess i don't really see what the big deal is. devices are neat but I dont really feel like I have to farm for them or risk being nerfed
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Exactly, someone that plays for so little is in no position to tell PvP ers:"use devices or get screwed", and thats said from someone who has 5 eruptions. And no, I won't be welcoming someone who likes trying to farm with a team, but rages when 2 go against him...as I said before, an eye for an eye.
(Considering to stop farming you guys since I might have overdone it a bit, and i'm not that kinda guy....just beware, if I get you , oe hear you attempted team/farming in bash, what will be coming will be 10 times as rough and fierce...play nice.)
This is why I prefer UTC so much more, people that take BASH seriously are stupid. No matter if there is a team in there or not the fact is that you could easily just farm one guy who you know is easy for you to kill or your build counters. When in UTC if both teams have a good healer you find suddenly the game gets so much more fun in pvp. The problem is it can be kind of hard for us to attack each other, now if you want we could not even go into bash and let the game die a little more but we know each others builds and so it gets sort of pointless if we attacked each other. (even though I get attacked by aoe and raptors by my team anyway plus I have lucy / rocket who loves to kill me easily as my build is really weak against TGM at the moment) Just stop whining pointlessly on the forums, if you didn't ignore me we could have actually talked about it in game without disturbing everyone.
Anyway back to the forum topic, I agree that eruption needs a slight nerf for example something that makes you hit 70% less damage or maybe if it snares you loads or cuts your TP off while it is on. I wouldn't agree to a total nerf though due to how much global it would cost all the players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
people that take BASH seriously are stupid..
I find it funny how your opinion changed dramatically since last Saturday, when you would bring a team of 4 to attack us...I wonder what happened....
This one was over, before it even begun.
I didn't bring a team just to beat people, we just so happened to all go in. (I'm sure it was only 3 of us in that one though, I'm not sure if bane was online) You do understand that there is only 6 people, about 8 toons, in Team vnm at the moment, it just so happens that when we are all online we want to do some pvp, and it also just so happens that there were not enough other people online to do any other pvp. Why does everyone seem to think that when I go into bash or anyone for that matter that we are going to see that certain people are in there and call all our friends in to beat you up. That isn't how it works, if everyone on my friends list didn't go into bash ever, it would half the amount of people who go into bash.
I have said sorry about that one bash we did but you seem to want to drag this out rather pointlessly and make yourself look tough by saying how you can take teams on. This is the final thing I'll say to you, if you want to talk please un ignore me and we can stop the spam.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <- No violence or dark humor here, move on.
I.M.P.@drimp in Champions (Careful that you don't get hit by falling bombs when dueling)
Dr Imp@drimp in Neverwinter (Apparently I use hax and exploits, also I apparently payed to win)
^ Disclaimer: The above was a joke for all you serious sally's.
Seriously though, first it was powers, now devices. What's next? Gear? My god, some of you are such crybabies. Devices are all fine. I don't like when people eruption spam (excluding wesley because eruption is part of his build), but you don't see me crying about it. Sters and III spam eruption on me all bash/stronghold/UTC, yet I still kill them. (No offense Sters, just making a point). Real PvPers who know how to play properly can counter every device that's out there. Period.
Devices are here, and they are here to stay. You can either adapt to the changes and accept that more and more of PvP is becoming device based. Or you can live in denial and keep crying and losing. Your choice.
This is coming from someone owns multiple copies of these said devices but can and often does play without them. But it is fun sometimes to use them
If you wanna start crying about something, lets all cry to bring back imbue so that there can actually be a variety of GOOD, EFFECTIVE builds and not the same old quarry/2gm/ER/AOPM/SR/Defile/Pestilence/Chest Beam/Shoulder Launcher builds running around. Hell, I'll even cry with you. In fact, I'll be the first and loudest to cry.
Silly Sters this thread was started by a mummy cat, this thread was necro to begin with.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Bradd, this thread isn't about devices anymore. Since it was necro'd, it's primarily been about teaming up on people in bash. Do you even read stuff anymore or do you just barge in at the first opportunity to call everyone a crybaby for having an opinion?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Then I had a bit of fun as the last player in ZA rotating my eruption before I stop and let them kill me.
As I said, I am hardly interested in the win. I just want people to play nice and make HGs enjoyable for everyone even if that means they all gank me.
Smoochie, someone did mention about nerfing devices although primarily the thread was necroed and most part was about ganking. Anyway, yes devices and ganking, discussed till the cows have gone home
It seems sometimes when you go in with friends in PvP, there is a general tendency to avoid attacking your own friends not because it is a team ganking arrangement but simply because the other person is your friend. I used to have a bit of problem but I overcame it. We go in to have fun and it is really alright to attack someone even if that person is your friend. I actively attack Mal, Sters, Brad, Green etc and they are all on my friends list as long as they are on the top of the chart.
Speaking of which, in case anyone thinks I keep targeting them, then that's only because you have the most kills with least or no deaths which means you are good. That's my prefer mode of play, not to be the first with 10 kills.
Because you don't have those yet I guess?
I knowingly make my decision never to use a device in PvP even though I go up against many players who use the devices and I know the advantage it gives them.
So I can't really complain that someone else is using a device that I chose not to use.
I don't think they need to be banned...but I would never complain if they came out with a device free PvP.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Also ban ebon ruin, 2gm, quarry, AoPM, UR and SR. I have all of those and still want 'em banned!
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
True OP is... Well, I'm only sure that banning Devices and nerfing powers won't solve anything but other nerf-cry just starts again. :rolleyes: