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PSA: Most of the "Elite" Players Don't Mind the Wardicator Fix
lezard21
Posts: 1,510 Arc User
I cannot post extracts from the chats cause it would be against the channel rules, but most everyone in the "Elite" channel's reaction to the current changes ranged from "Oh...this actually doesn't ruin my build, it still works fine" to "Oh, this new build is actually really good, I should have changed into this a long time ago!".
So there, the gaem was not killed and tanks aren't fucked, the "elites" said so
So there, the gaem was not killed and tanks aren't fucked, the "elites" said so
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And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
*Shrugs*
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yup, that's me
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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Block timing explained
On the contrary, there are many alternatives that have always been more viable than wardicator, and some that will still get you basically the same thing \o/
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I lost 25% defense, that's huge. I can't do Elite content anymore unless I pull one mob by one/die constantly while trying to not aggro more than a few. I love running AOPM, and Wardicator is practically my only defense for it.
Not even going to get into the 8% damage loss as well, I'm mostly pissed at the defense drop.
Elite Aftershock isn't terribly hard. Slow and boring, yeah, but tough..nah
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I really want nothing to do with trinities, super tanks, or posters saying "You can do this and that with these skills instead, 25% defense loss when its your only passive reduction isn't a big deal because my build does fine", I play freeform to, you guessed it, build my own theme and abilities.
Yes a lot of salt with this post but I can't help it at this point.
*Edit because brain fart*
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Oh and while we're at it, fix Sentinel Mastery.
Well too bad, I solo harder content with squishier builds so you should be able to do it with less squishy builds. The sooner you stop your pity party the sooner you can start making better builds that don't rely on outdated crutches. I can tell that you're still living in 2013 when you use the phrase "super tank" as that is a completely outdated term now. It's time to update your brain and realize that those old crutches were already garbage and that there's actually stronger stuff available now.
And yes, theme. I use it, how 'bout you?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Primary super stat - Guardian - Avenger
Primary super stat - Guardian - Vindicator
Primary super stat - Guardian - Overseer
Primary super stat - Overseer - Vindicator
primary super stat - Overseer - Avenger
Primary super stat - Avenger - Vindicator
Well it's not really a secret that it's spec is not exactly as it says. It's supposed to give 10%/20%+ Critical chance to single targets attacks on targets above 90% health. However that's happening all the time regardless of enemy health percentage.
The world doesn't revolve around you.
Nor me, but you seem to always want to get the last word as if your opinion is the de-facto truth.
Epic Stronghold
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All jokes aside this is helpful.
I have videos that show that what I'm saying is fact. Link in my sig.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Seriously, THAT's what folks were salty about????
This is my wtf face:
Yes, and I have anectodal evidence for my build not being able to do content I was previously able to. Hence my frustration, because the build I play - the abilities I've chosen, along with the passive and specialization, is no longer able to do what it could before.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be able to do it if I didn't heavily change my abilities and passive, but that detracts from me being able to previously play how I'd like to coping with something else - just changing specializations won't do it.
I don't understand what's so difficult to comprehend, I'm proud of you being able to make a bunch of builds to run this content, but it isn't what I personally use.
Granted if Wardicator didn't exist for the past 6 years, I'd be running something else completely and not get attached to how it allowed me to not get melted, but...
A tank with 120% DR before patch will only take like 800-1.5k more damage through block from a Dino bite after patch with 100% DR.
Old: offense 510.4 (16%), defense 480.2 (113%)
New: offense 203.9 (7.4%), defense 384.2 (90%)
For attacks that cannot crit, this is a 7.5% dps loss. For attacks that can crit, it's typically 5.7%.
With 6 stacks defiance, against blue lasers in PH:
Old: You lose 480 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
New: You lose 513 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
That's taking 33 more damage, or +6.9%.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
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See the thing is... the numbers people keep posting for the actual numerical difference that the change has brought don't bear that out. You act like you're taking 50% more damage or something, when it's probably less than 10% more. What would help is if you posted some actual numbers, like what your defense was before and after, so we can get out of anecdotal information and into something more concrete.
You say "heavily change" but I just don't buy that. I bet the solution is as easy as swapping AoPM out for Invulnerable, and just leave the rest of your build as is.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The raw defense doesnt suffer too much, block however did suffer a bit because of the way things multiplied and whatever, so this change should only be an issue if ur trying to solo tank a cosmic yet it is still possible to do.
As of the aopm thing, i can understand your frustration but im sure you can just switch passives or switch to protector/vindicator or something, and youll be alright, trust me i know it sucks but this change was needed and we have to adapt.
Edit: fixed typos
Also, my tank is nerfed and now I cannot play CO anymore. /uninstalling CO tonight. All jokes aside though, there are ways around this "nerf"
That's what I meant, so if I had a defense passive, that 17k would be a lot less, and i'd still be able to tank dino, I was just proving that it's still VERY possible, and the specs are still viable.
I'm quitting CO too, lost 1% def on my dps
I'm quitting CO cause I only had two wardicator toons and neither of them were effected enough that I feel the need to change their specs >:C what a lame nerf
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Pretty much where my ONE toon that used it is.
This is a problem inherent to any MMO "hard" content when different builds can have dramatically different effectiveness.
"Hard" being dependent on build means any increase in difficulty reduces the margin by which a theme build can compete.
I have had numerous theme builds dependent on a few OP abilities get obsoleted by nerfs.
The solution is better balance and especially, not punishing theme. But the fallacy in Champions' design was that a theme build could fit incredibly narrow 'frameworks.' Recent balance decisions primarily are focused on increased importance of frameworks unfortunately.
The game would be dramatically better if framework made no mechanical difference and synergies were determined through some other method.
Post-F2P COH, with the open incarnate powers, was actually way better to design interesting themes - you had a primary set, secondary set, ancillary set, and 4 incarnates to theme around.
In Champions you essentially have one primary plus some support abilities, many of which come from an optimal list.
But I'm seeing that I'm not having my characters who used this, scream in pain every time something looks their way, so I should be fine.
I do think there will be some adjustment needed in terms of specs on my part...I just need to figure it out.
I think the one that hurt the most...was my AoPM Sorc user. I think my defense dropped a stupid amount, but I can't remember exactly...but I'm sure it's around 30% on tool tip.
I think I'll have to do a bit of playing around before I can settle on something I'm happy with.
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Sometimes I get the feeling that when some people say "theme" they actually mean "shallow building". I feel this way because all my builds are themed, but because their theme isn't skin deep they're still very strong.
The question is how much actual mitigation you lost. I get the feeling there are a lot of people who are taking about 10% more damage who have actually placebo'd themselves into thinking they're suddenly being destroyed so much faster than before.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I think the difference here is that people are actually losing out on something...which, much like old dodge, was "allowed" for a long while until it felt like the norm.
When playing, I think previously I was a little less likely to block something...I just need to block a lot faster on some builds and for others, change around their specs.
I'm relatively adventurous when it comes to specc'ing but...my "issue" is that I don't have straightforward DPS builds who are "gravely affected" by this fix/change.
Most of them are Hybrid Builds. I can relate to what the other poster in the thread is referring to with AoPM and the off/def loop.
I've never been too concerned with Offense, but I always value defense...and seeing such a "huge drop" (probably isn't that much in reality), is somewhat disconcerting.
I enjoy the stat boost AoPM grants me, but I'd now need to be sturdier to achieve what I used to achieve. I think my AoPM user is "suffering" because I'm not specializing in a role, like DPS or Support, so taking an offensive passive will likely have drawbacks I don't want.
At this point...I'll just have to figure out what I want and work from there really.
Once I do some more testing, I'll find out exactly how much defense she has lost.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Honestly for anyone running one of those hybrid AoPM builds... your build was already crap and you should take this change as an opportunity to start running something more modern. AoPM Wardicator hybrids are so 2013.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The only reason I'm complaining is in the hopes that others do so too, and end up getting a bit of a buff (Either a boost to Aggressive Stance, perhaps even one more point to pour into it) or just AOPM in general.
In my opinion, any buff to a hybrid spec or such a multi-role ability is nothing but a positive for both build diversity and player enjoyment.
Really, I just hate trinities and having to be in a designated role - too many games have suffered for it.
The thing about Hybrid is that it takes clever building to master. Some things click together nicely with it, others need a lot more work. You can't really ever escape the trinity, not here in CO anyways. What a Hybrid CAN do is quite literally in its namesake. You can put together a setup that works in multiple situations and fills multiple roles. Hybrid is good enough at being a multi-role if the build is properly tuned with specific functions in mind.
I'll take the Hybrid AoPM as an example because it's commonly used improperly. Not directing this at your build in particular. AoPM is a Supportive passive first and foremost, but if it's being placed on a Hybrid bruiser (DPS/Tank) then the build is quite literally fighting against itself. In this situation, taking a Defensive passive or an appropriate Offensive passive will suit the user far better than trying to use something wholly intended for Supportive play.
The take-away is that Hybrids should build for their strengths and still look to fill certain roles. Good Hybrids BECOME the trinity, we never break out of it.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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