test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
How much CON for a character without a CON stat
andondarkmore
Posts: 678 Arc User
Just about every character has a CON stat (Love not going splat). My question if for characters going for builds without CON (Glass cannons / Focus on DPS over staying alive). Thanks to MODS and gear with +Health, How much CON/Health should I go for?
0
Comments
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
DeviantART|FurAffinity|
Twitter
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I do see a lot of other people who take CON but don't have a ranked block or don't block in time that have 5+ deaths. When it comes to staying alive, my parses for the past year show a weak correlation with hp levels and a very strong correlation with % of hits blocked.
That said, the answer to your question depends on how new you are to the content. If you are doing something for the first time, it's good to be tough so you can chill and learn the fight. A good starting point for this is 200+ CON with some HP gear. As you get comfortable with the fight, you can remove more and more CON in favor of whatever stat scales your damage form.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Get Bolstering secondaries and toss some Growth mods into your Defense Primary. That's all you need ( and you technically don't even need that, lots of people go for defense instead ).
Giving yourself lots of Con is one way to make your entry into content softer, but I'd argue it's not the best way. Better is to just play really defensively, keep your block on a hair trigger. Observe those around you, see if they're not blocking when you are, and adjust accordingly.
The last thing you wanna do is become one of these people who leans on Con because they used it to get through stuff instead of the block button. Start learning early.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
DeviantART|FurAffinity|
Twitter
I guess players don't try this because they want Ego-Dex-[EnergyStat] or Str-Dex-[EnergyStat] (or Dex-Xxx-[EnergyStat] for maximum damage. Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.
Endurance also can be used to increase health if a Primary, but there seem to be a few reasons for not using it for that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If you're a Tank then there is a relatively high minimum threshold of toughness to hit before focusing on max dmg. If you're a healer it might be ok to deal no damage at all.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Depending on what kind of damage you're facing, you could also consider Telekinetic Shield (rank 1 is 250% for most damage types but 300% against physical damage). It also has an advantage (Telekinetic Reinforcement) that blunts incoming damage for a few seconds after you release the block. If non-physical is the problem, Eldritch Shield from the Mystic stuff does 250% v. physical and 300% v. non-physical at rank 1.
These won't give you more hit points, but they help protect the HP you have, universally for Energy Shield, and situationally for the other two.
All three super stats increase your damage. That's part of their overall significance. which makes them meaningful. And I didn't say anything about a form scaling off Con. You can scale a form of one of the other two super stats.
Did I miss something obvious? (It wouldn't be the first time....)
Total damage bonus from superstats: 64%
Total damage bonus from form: 192%
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The not so obvious is: for what content?
Most content is pretty forgiving, with the exception of a few very early missions (Poe, for example) and some portions of other content.
So, if your answer is for "end game" content, then I have a suggestion that helps me at Kigatilik and Qwyjibo for my squishiest of glass cannons ... Bionic Shield r2+.
When the snow storm starts, it's very helpful to pop that at the beginning. It helps to mitigate (in a roundabout way) much of that damage.
When Qwyjibo has just done his big BOOM, lava patches can overlap and you might be caught over many. Popping this right after the boom and quickly pressing block has helped me survive these rather well.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The way the power works (and it's the only one that works that way) is why I suggest and use it.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Also, when I asked if I'd missed something obvious, I meant something obvious about superstats only. I'm getting the idea that I wasn't exceptionally clear on that.
This post was edited b/c I thought my first attempt could have been interpreted as hostile, which I didn't really intend.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
A good idea if you aren't putting one on my squishy.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
tl;dr - people don't do it because it doesn't work
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I hope that clears up my meaning, I guess having two or three posts from different days can blur things.
EDIT
Now that I think about it, maybe there's a better way to make my point.
Look at The Cybernetic Warrior in game or on http://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm.
The super stats are Intelligence primary, Constitution and Endurance secondary.
The form is Particle Accelerator, which scales off INTELLIGENCE.
This is what I meant in my first post--Con can be a superstat. It will act as any other superstat in its position, but does not have to be your primary or even mainly stacked stat. The OP was talking about a DPS toon having Con, and this AT illustrates that nicely.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
If you're doing Rampage Gravitar, on the other hand...Yeah, you need a lot of HP and Def for that one if you don't have a good healer with you.
Really, though, if your concern is to only not get killed in ONE hit, then you probably don't need any +hp bonuses at all. If you're trying to avoid being a glass cannon, then you probably want somewhere in the 7.5k+ range. If you have wardicator or guardicator, you can get by with less. Active defenses or self-healing also reduce the requirement a bit.
Here are some scenarios for DPS hp and block rank. Assume 30% resistance from gear and nothing else.
6,500 hp + r3 block (360%): You can take a 38,800 damage hit and not die (eHP 38,870)
8,500 hp + r2 block (300%): You can take a 44,100 damage hit and not die (eHP 44,200)
10,500 hp + r1 block (240%): You can take a 46,400 damage hit and not die (eHP 46,410)
So 10.5k hp+r1 block is only 19.4% more survivable than 6.5k hp+r3 block.
Each point of CON gives 15hp, so to go from 6,500 to 10,500 hp you use up 266 stat points towards CON.
Personally, I would much rather spend those 266 stat points on dealing damage, especially with how specs provide linear scaling for many of their buffs, and use up the 4 adv points to rank up block.
And just for kicks:
8,500 hp + r3 block (360%): You can take a 50,800 damage hit and not die (eHP 50,830)
This is 9.5% more survivable than 10.5k hp+r1 block. Takes 2 adv points and saves 133 stat points for use towards damage.
10,500 hp + r3 block (360%): You can take a 62,700 damage hit and not die (eHP 62,790)
This is 35% more survivable than 10.5k hp+r1 block. Takes 4 adv points.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
I find having a DPS with 10k+ HP just incredible silly, it hurts their DPS and Energy managment
The only few occasions that I will have a DPS with 10.000+ HP would be to reflect their physical appearance and body types
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
and then you said
I wasn't responding to the OP, I was responding to you. That's why I quoted you before my response.
And before you respond with "but I didn't mention a form!" again, I'll pre-respond to that:
Which is all a response to you wondering why people don't stat Con for its potential contribution to damage. You didn't mention forms, but I did because it was relevant to explaining why people don't try to use Con's super stat damage bonus as a way to get big damage.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
When I mentioned "building up" Con, I assumed everyone was smart enough to know that I wasn't talking about ignoring your main stat that works with your form. That would be stupid. (I actually think you guys are that smart, but misinterpreted me, and I didn't explain things as clearly as I originally thought [I looked].)
And regardless of how much or how little you build up a secondary SS, it still contributes a % to your effectiveness. It might be negligible compared to the form, but it's still there. (You keep bringing up forms, so....) Also, superstats rise with your level, so they build up whether you invest in them or not.
In the future, I'll try to explain myself a bit better to avoid these misinterpretations as much as possible. I may also choose to not respond to someone who corrects me, as this does not seem to ever clear anything up.
So you were talking about upping your damage by slotting a few Con mods? That doesn't make it anymore viable because still all you're doing is lowering the damage bonus from your Form. That's why I keep bringing up forms, because every point you put into Con is a point you're not putting into your Form, and that's why people don't do that to increase their damage.
Even if somebody doesn't have a form, all that means is that they could put their points into literally any stat other than ego or strength and have the same effect as putting it into Con. Sure there's Wardicator to consider, but not really since this example has already made it clear they don't care about damage because they don't have a form.
The only people who up their damage by statting Con are tanks, and in their case the increased damage bonus from super stats is incidental to the fact that they're stacking Con to survive more damage.
If you are putting points into Con it is because you have decided that toughness is more important than damage output and you are actively dumping damage output for more hitpoints, and possibly defense.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
No, that isn't what I meant, either. Sorry if I confused you again, I'm done with this.
Example: If I run Concentration then as long as Int or Ego is my Primary and as high as possible then it loses me ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in damage in regards to my form to have Con as a Secondary SS.
The actual answer to the question that is actually BEING ASKED is: Some DO have Con as a secondary but others who do not tend to focus on Dex as you suspected for the Crits or they double down on things like Int or Rec to give themselves shorter Cooldown and More energy or even more often they might have Pre to boost their heals and holds they may have. Often times Pre can actually be more useful than Con for staying alive because all Con really does is add a few HP.
Now that that is settled.
kamokami you are correct BUT there is more to surviving some content than just blocking a big hit. When you have dots all over or 50 things attacking you all at once your block will not help you. In the end you need to be free to kill what is killing you and that requires more HP or more potent fast heals. So it does really depend on what all they want this character to take on and rather or not they can count on having a good tank and(or) healer around which most of us cannot.
For someone asking that he sure talked about damage a lot:
And at no point did he say "I'm not talking about damage, I'm talking about toughness" which would have cleared that right up. If his question had been "why don't dpsers take Con to increase their toughness?" my response would have been: They do that. All the time. It's kind of the point of the thread.
Honestly... you're kind of making it sound like he was asking a dumb question and didn't realize what the thread was about Hasu, and I don't think that's the case
Hell, you even go on to acknowledge that they were talking about damage after all, and when you're talking about damage Forms are always relevant. If you're taking Con you are actively dumping damage for toughness, and that's why the SS bonus from Con doesn't matter - because whatever SS you took those points out of was also giving that damage bonus ( and probably pumping your form ).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
glass cannon : 0 additional con (apart from base con stats) to maximise damage output
- growth mods in defense primary gear for additional HP (note: extra HP doesnt not equate to additonal CON stat points),
- rank up your block to r3 ( see kamokami's response) to increase survivability
If you're planning to use the toon for cosmic hunts, more than likely you're teaming with people that will have some support auras for you to leverage off and increase your survivability even further
Actually, initially, he was not asking a question at all. He only started to have to ask questions because you brought up that players do not use con because of Forms which had absolutely nothing to do with what he said.
Forms do not factor into this discussion based on exactly what you quoted him saying. Shall we go over this again?
Why does it matter if you have Con as an SS to in terms of your damage output? The only way in which having Con as an SS lowers your damage output is by not having Dex you lose out on the Maximum amount of Crit Chance + the amount of added damage your SS gives regardless of what it is.
That has NOTHING to do with Forms. The only time Forms factor into this discussion is when we are talking about the Super Stat you have chosen to work up to the highest level. As I said: If I have Concentration and my Ego or Int are my highest stat then it does not matter what other stats I have in terms of damage bonus from Concentration.
So say I ran Concentration: Ego Primary, Regen and Con Secondary with my focus for stat boosts in Ego. Now let's say I do the same thing except replace Con with Pre. No change to the damage I deal. Now let's say I do the same thing but replace Con with Endurance. Again no change to the damage I deal. Now let's say I do the same thing but replace Con with Dex. Now I deal more damage because I Crit more often BUT nothing about Concentration's bonus has changed.
Basically: If you do not get it by now you are either extremely dense or just trolling. So much like with eviltwintwo I am done trying to explain, what is a very simple concept, to you with this post.
First and foremost, hasukurobi, thank you very much for explaining my point. Very cool of you.
One thing--you seem to be assuming spinnytop is attacking me (please correct me if I'm wrong about this). At no time did I feel that way, Spinny was just trying to understand what I was talking about. My first post was badly worded and led a few people to think I was endorsing stacking Con instead of the superstat that affected the form, which would be...ineffective, to say the least. Sure, those who misunderstood could possibly have reasoned it out b/c of my other posts, but the whole thing could have been avoided altogether had I just explained my original point better. Also, what they thought I was saying and what I thought they thought I was saying turned out to be different--so my subsequent posts, if taken with the original misunderstanding in mind, would just muddle things more. I got myself into a hole and tried to get out by digging downward.
Any irritation/frustration I felt was at the situation, particularly my inability to squash the original misunderstanding, not at Spinny or anyone else. Misunderstandings happen, sometimes because one person's way of expressing things is different from another's.
Instead you just kept on talking about damage u3u
So yeah... a lot of what you said was unclear. Especially this!
and this too, where you mention the increase in toughness as a "side effect" indicating a person would be stacking it for some other primary benefit o3o
I mean I know that what you meant is cleared up now, but I just thought I would illustrate just how much the waters were muddied by unclear and misleading statements and how even someone with their head on straight might have been lead to believe that you were talking about damage rather than increased survival ability.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained