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How much CON for a character without a CON stat

Just about every character has a CON stat (Love not going splat). My question if for characters going for builds without CON (Glass cannons / Focus on DPS over staying alive). Thanks to MODS and gear with +Health, How much CON/Health should I go for?
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  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    Most glass cannons I see has around 6-8K health.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User
    Most glass cannons get that health via Growth mods and gear that gives extra hit points. My glass cannons are generally 10-20 Con depending on which talents I took.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,623 Arc User

    Just about every character has a CON stat (Love not going splat). My question if for characters going for builds without CON (Glass cannons / Focus on DPS over staying alive). Thanks to MODS and gear with +Health, How much CON/Health should I go for?

    Rank 3 block provides a massive amount of defense which allows you to not take any CON and survive. Most of the exprienced glass cannons I know do not take CON and their death count is usually 0 or 2 max..

    I do see a lot of other people who take CON but don't have a ranked block or don't block in time that have 5+ deaths. When it comes to staying alive, my parses for the past year show a weak correlation with hp levels and a very strong correlation with % of hits blocked.

    That said, the answer to your question depends on how new you are to the content. If you are doing something for the first time, it's good to be tough so you can chill and learn the fight. A good starting point for this is 200+ CON with some HP gear. As you get comfortable with the fight, you can remove more and more CON in favor of whatever stat scales your damage form.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,378 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    0 Con. If it's not a SS don't put anything into it.

    Get Bolstering secondaries and toss some Growth mods into your Defense Primary. That's all you need ( and you technically don't even need that, lots of people go for defense instead ).

    Giving yourself lots of Con is one way to make your entry into content softer, but I'd argue it's not the best way. Better is to just play really defensively, keep your block on a hair trigger. Observe those around you, see if they're not blocking when you are, and adjust accordingly.

    The last thing you wanna do is become one of these people who leans on Con because they used it to get through stuff instead of the block button. Start learning early.
  • ealford1985ealford1985 Posts: 3,108 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    I have about 6k on Ratty and have no issues with surviving and I’ve only died 2,300+ times...Con seems to just give you that that pat on the back that everything will be okay.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 9,703 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    I don't usually suggest Con-less builds since I don't assume the person's is going to be fine being more glassy w/o more info, but its usually also pretty simple to change such setups to be less Con reliant for better base dps. But yea, you can be fine as a dps w/o any added Con and instead things like growth mods- esp as you get more comfortable w/ the content you frequent.
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  • servantrulesservantrules Posts: 292 Arc User
    CON as a non superstat doesn't give more than bonus health. Like the previous suggestions, just get Mods and Gear that boost Health directly. You could also squeeze in CON in the Talents options if there are no better choices after you've gotten the most out of the Super-Stat combos.
  • chaosdrgnz43chaosdrgnz43 Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    STR spec tree has Swole that gives you health the more Str you have. Might want to look into it if you're interested..
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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    All three of your superstats increase your damage, do they not? That means if you have Con as a SS and build it up, Con will contribute to your damage just as any other SS would.

    I guess players don't try this because they want Ego-Dex-[EnergyStat] or Str-Dex-[EnergyStat] (or Dex-Xxx-[EnergyStat] for maximum damage. Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.

    Endurance also can be used to increase health if a Primary, but there seem to be a few reasons for not using it for that.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,378 Arc User

    All three of your superstats increase your damage, do they not? That means if you have Con as a SS and build it up, Con will contribute to your damage just as any other SS would.

    I guess players don't try this because they want Ego-Dex-[EnergyStat] or Str-Dex-[EnergyStat] (or Dex-Xxx-[EnergyStat] for maximum damage. Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.

    No, players don't try that because there's no Form that scales off of Con. SS damage bonus's overall contribution isn't particularly meaningful.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,623 Arc User
    edited January 2018

    Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.

    Well only if your goal is to deal damage.

    If you're a Tank then there is a relatively high minimum threshold of toughness to hit before focusing on max dmg. If you're a healer it might be ok to deal no damage at all.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    Side note: though it may not fit your character theme, the block from Power Armor (Energy Shield) has a higher across-the-board block percentage (rank 1 is 270% instead of 250%). Of course, you'd still have to block on time for it to do you any good.

    Depending on what kind of damage you're facing, you could also consider Telekinetic Shield (rank 1 is 250% for most damage types but 300% against physical damage). It also has an advantage (Telekinetic Reinforcement) that blunts incoming damage for a few seconds after you release the block. If non-physical is the problem, Eldritch Shield from the Mystic stuff does 250% v. physical and 300% v. non-physical at rank 1.

    These won't give you more hit points, but they help protect the HP you have, universally for Energy Shield, and situationally for the other two.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    kamokami said:

    Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.

    Well only if your goal is to deal damage.

    If you're a Tank then there is a relatively high minimum threshold of toughness to hit before focusing on max dmg. If you're a healer it might be ok to deal no damage at all.
    True, but the OP said:

    Just about every character has a CON stat (Love not going splat). My question if for characters going for builds without CON (Glass cannons / Focus on DPS over staying alive). Thanks to MODS and gear with +Health, How much CON/Health should I go for?

    So I was actually commenting from that perspective.
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    All three of your superstats increase your damage, do they not? That means if you have Con as a SS and build it up, Con will contribute to your damage just as any other SS would.

    I guess players don't try this because they want Ego-Dex-[EnergyStat] or Str-Dex-[EnergyStat] (or Dex-Xxx-[EnergyStat] for maximum damage. Everything's a trade-off of some kind. And max dmg is always boss.

    No, players don't try that because there's no Form that scales off of Con. SS damage bonus's overall contribution isn't particularly meaningful.
    I really hope this doesn't sound as though I'm trying to be annoying.

    All three super stats increase your damage. That's part of their overall significance. which makes them meaningful. And I didn't say anything about a form scaling off Con. You can scale a form of one of the other two super stats.

    Did I miss something obvious? (It wouldn't be the first time....)
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User
    edited January 2018


    Did I miss something obvious? (It wouldn't be the first time....)

    Checking one of my glass cannons:
    Total damage bonus from superstats: 64%
    Total damage bonus from form: 192%
  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2018


    Did I miss something obvious? (It wouldn't be the first time....)

    Checking one of my glass cannons:
    Total damage bonus from superstats: 64%
    Total damage bonus from form: 192%
    Once again, I wasn't challenging the value of a form, nor was I suggesting using a form that scales off Con (or doesn't exist, about the same thing, apparently). Honestly, would you give up that 64%?
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User

    Once again, I wasn't challenging the value of a form, nor was I suggesting using a form that scales off Con (or doesn't exist, about the same thing, apparently). Honestly, would you give up that 64%?

    I get that 64% no matter how I split my attributes. The 192% is dependent on me maxing out the stat that scales my form.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 645 Arc User
    The obvious reason for CON and +HP mods is to "survive". (Had to state the obvious, because...)

    The not so obvious is: for what content?

    Most content is pretty forgiving, with the exception of a few very early missions (Poe, for example) and some portions of other content.

    So, if your answer is for "end game" content, then I have a suggestion that helps me at Kigatilik and Qwyjibo for my squishiest of glass cannons ... Bionic Shield r2+.

    When the snow storm starts, it's very helpful to pop that at the beginning. It helps to mitigate (in a roundabout way) much of that damage.
    When Qwyjibo has just done his big BOOM, lava patches can overlap and you might be caught over many. Popping this right after the boom and quickly pressing block has helped me survive these rather well.​​
    .

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User
    warcanch said:


    So, if your answer is for "end game" content, then I have a suggestion that helps me at Kigatilik and Qwyjibo for my squishiest of glass cannons ... Bionic Shield r2+.

    Speaking as a healer... please use a different power. If you use bionic shielding on yourself, a healer can't use it on you, and one of the standard ways of keeping the squishies up at kiga is to keep the teamup window open and spam bionic healing.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 645 Arc User
    So, if your answer is for "end game" content, then I have a suggestion that helps me at Kigatilik and Qwyjibo for my squishiest of glass cannons ... Bionic Shield r2+.

    Speaking as a healer... please use a different power. If you use bionic shielding on yourself, a healer can't use it on you, and one of the standard ways of keeping the squishies up at kiga is to keep the teamup window open and spam bionic healing.

    The way the power works (and it's the only one that works that way) is why I suggest and use it.​​
    .

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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2018

    Once again, I wasn't challenging the value of a form, nor was I suggesting using a form that scales off Con (or doesn't exist, about the same thing, apparently). Honestly, would you give up that 64%?

    I get that 64% no matter how I split my attributes. The 192% is dependent on me maxing out the stat that scales my form.
    I said, "I wasn't challenging the value of a form". I wasn't addressing forms in my original post. Someone else brought up forms. In my first post, I was pointing out that your three superstats enhance your character regardless of what they are; if you take Con, the superstat bonuses (including damage) are the same as they are for an equal amount of any other superstat. The difference is that more Con equals more health. It's something that can be considered for certain builds.

    Also, when I asked if I'd missed something obvious, I meant something obvious about superstats only. I'm getting the idea that I wasn't exceptionally clear on that.

    This post was edited b/c I thought my first attempt could have been interpreted as hostile, which I didn't really intend.
    Post edited by eviltwintwo on
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    warcanch said:


    The way the power works (and it's the only one that works that way) is why I suggest and use it.​​

    "I can heal myself for 500 a tic and thus prevent a healer from healing for 3000 a tic" is a good idea why?
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 645 Arc User
    The way the power works (and it's the only one that works that way) is why I suggest and use it.
    "I can heal myself for 500 a tic and thus prevent a healer from healing for 3000 a tic" is a good idea why?

    A good idea if you aren't putting one on my squishy.​​
    .

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 6,348 Arc User
    warcanch said:


    A good idea if you aren't putting one on my squishy.​​

    Better plan: use Conviction on your dps builds.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 15,378 Arc User
    edited February 2018


    Also, when I asked if I'd missed something obvious, I meant something obvious about superstats only. I'm getting the idea that I wasn't exceptionally clear on that.

    The obvious thing about super stats only that you missed in your initial musings about why people don't stack Con for damage bonus is that super stats give you way more damage bonus from their scaling with Con and there's no Form that scales with the super stat Con. Super stats.

    tl;dr - people don't do it because it doesn't work
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    I suck at blocking. I always miss the tell ... or there's some sneaky attack that my foolish old eyes didn't see. That being said.. a rank 3 block is a powerful gift from the gaming gods. So rank that mofo up on a squishy. I'm also a fan of bolstering secondaries + Growth mods. There's also some lower level blue gear that grants +hitpoints ... which is a good option for those on a budget.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 3,195 Arc User
    It really helps to set the camera zoom out to at least 75. Much easier to see the tells, tombs, everything. My survival rate went way up with that. Personally, I find that if you hit your block in time R2 is quite adequate, if you need the 2 points for R3 elsewhere.
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  • eviltwintwoeviltwintwo Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    spinnytop said:


    Also, when I asked if I'd missed something obvious, I meant something obvious about superstats only. I'm getting the idea that I wasn't exceptionally clear on that.

    The obvious thing about super stats only that you missed in your initial musings about why people don't stack Con for damage bonus is that super stats give you way more damage bonus from their scaling with Con and there's no Form that scales with the super stat Con. Super stats.

    tl;dr - people don't do it because it doesn't work
    In a previous comment, I said:

    I didn't say anything about a form scaling off Con. You can scale a form of one of the other two super stats.

    And I repeat, I wasn't addressing forms. I also wasn't suggesting Con as primary or stacking Con specifically for a damage bonus. I was just mentioning that taking Con as a superstat would have the side effect of increasing your HP.

    I hope that clears up my meaning, I guess having two or three posts from different days can blur things.

    EDIT
    Now that I think about it, maybe there's a better way to make my point.

    Look at The Cybernetic Warrior in game or on http://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm.

    The super stats are Intelligence primary, Constitution and Endurance secondary.

    The form is Particle Accelerator, which scales off INTELLIGENCE.

    This is what I meant in my first post--Con can be a superstat. It will act as any other superstat in its position, but does not have to be your primary or even mainly stacked stat. The OP was talking about a DPS toon having Con, and this AT illustrates that nicely.
    Post edited by eviltwintwo on
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 651 Arc User
    ^Uhmmm no. The Cybernetic Warrior has Con as a superstat. The OP was asking about adding Con to a toon that DOESN'T have Con as a SS. At least, that's how I read it.
  • andondarkmoreandondarkmore Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    I am happy to see my thread is still alive. As I said in my original post. I want to know, by MOD or by GEAR how much CON/HEALTH to give a character who does not have CON as a primary or secondary stat and wants to avoid being taken out in one hit.
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