Old LArc's base is listed as 101-224 dmg over the ramp up, w/ the first 4 ticks ramping up +~30% per tick and the remaining 5 ticks on a plateau after that. Over 9 ticks (8 + extra tick in 1st sec for all maintains) that total is around 101+131+162+192+224(5) = ~1700 dmg (approximate cause there's prob rounding errors in there).
PTS' LArc w/ the same base is a straight 151 dmg per tick, and over 9 ticks that's 1359 total dmg, or ~80% of the old LArc base.
Adding back in Superconductor can close much of that gap (on paper), but all options for adding/refreshing that debuff are still a dps loss for single-targets. On the other side, you won't lose as much dps from having to cancel LArc early for w/e reason, so there's ups and downs to the changes, but they fall apart if NI and Superconductor can't be kept up reliably and efficiently.
Electrical Siphon would be overpowered if it had the same amount of single target HPS as Conviction, since Conviction can't increase the amount of healing it provides against multiple targets.
Yes, but Conviction is a single press, quick recharge power, which you can use between blocks. Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat require a player to keep attacking in order to apply the buff the power needs to work; compared to blocking and using Conviction over a 30 second period you'll take more damage and heal less health. So why use it?
When it comes to fighting a group, Electrical Siphon springs into the lead by a huge margin.
Sort of. This game tends to spawn multiple low-level enemies who don't often live long enough to be affected by % chance debuffs. This means that Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat are difficult to apply and quite flakey in effect. There are also those specializations which allow you to generate around +200 heals when you defeat the enemies, so you're not going to stop attacking to use a heal power which does little/no damage and generates only a similiar level of healing.
The only time these powers'mechanics make much sense is in the Q Zone, where you have multiple enemies with longevity; but then you find the amount of healing the powers provide is actually quite disappointing compared to the amount of damage you have to take to get the buffs applied. To be worthwhile they'd need to do almost double the amount they do, otherwise you're better off using the more general self-heals, or even relying on block, ADs and devices.
Yes, but Conviction is a single press, quick recharge power, which you can use between blocks. Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat require a player to keep attacking in order to apply the buff the power needs to work; compared to blocking and using Conviction over a 30 second period you'll take more damage and heal less health. So why use it?
I mean, if you want to see how this type of power can be really powerful, go watch my "QWZ daily speed run" video. It provides massive healing in certain scenarios - add to that the fact that it will also heal your group members, and it becomes a very powerful ability.
Sort of. This game tends to spawn multiple low-level enemies who don't often live long enough to be affected by % chance debuffs. This means that Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat are difficult to apply and quite flakey in effect. There are also those specializations which allow you to generate around +200 heals when you defeat the enemies, so you're not going to stop attacking to use a heal power which does little/no damage and generates only a similiar level of healing.
The only time these powers'mechanics make much sense is in the Q Zone, where you have multiple enemies with longevity; but then you find the amount of healing the powers provide is actually quite disappointing compared to the amount of damage you have to take to get the buffs applied. To be worthwhile they'd need to do almost double the amount they do, otherwise you're better off using the more general self-heals, or even relying on block, ADs and devices.
Yeah, against enemies that fall over as soon as you breath on them healing powers don't matter. In those scenarios it doesn't matter if you take conviction, electrical siphon, or a bite out of a baked potato... which means they're not really relevant. If your problem is "enemies die before I can use them to heal" then there is no problem.
With even just 2 enemies remaining after you've swept away the mooks, siphon already jumps into the lead.
Which is why we need some more end game content that involves other than just spamming a couple attacks against a boss. Need more of a reason to use all the other powers we accumulate by level 40.
While that may be true, against a boss, there's generally only 1 target. You'll actually get more HPS from Conviction in this case, and as a bonus, Conviction doesn't require setup like ES does. "Press Conviction, get emergency heal" sounds better than "apply NI to boss, run up to boss, press ES, get emergency heal, reapply NI, continue attacking."
Yeah, against enemies that fall over as soon as you breath on them healing powers don't matter. In those scenarios it doesn't matter if you take conviction, electrical siphon, or a bite out of a baked potato... which means they're not really relevant. If your problem is "enemies die before I can use them to heal" then there is no problem.
With even just 2 enemies remaining after you've swept away the mooks, siphon already jumps into the lead.
However, since the QWZ is "endgame", and these powers are also used in the OTHER 90% of the game, they should not be balanced primarily FOR use in the QWZ.
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Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Old LArc's base is listed as 101-224 dmg over the ramp up, w/ the first 4 ticks ramping up +~30% per tick and the remaining 5 ticks on a plateau after that.
Really? I'd have to test that, my impression was that ramping maintains were flat gain per tic. It's still around an 8% damage loss.
Most of the time you don't want to use any healing against that class of foes.
I agree. So why base the core mechanism of a healing power around their presence?
I mean, if you want to see how this type of power can be really powerful, go watch my "QWZ daily speed run" video. It provides massive healing in certain scenarios - add to that the fact that it will also heal your group members, and it becomes a very powerful ability.
I can't see anything much in your video, spinny, although I do take the point. But it still feels like a very niche power, with a complex set up and limited use, which is the issue.
My general point wasn't so much about the nature of this type of heal power as much as it was about the toggle form for Electricity, and how it should do more than just replicate the effect of Concentration - a consumable buff to the player's damage and healing as a reward for using the toggle (with its more complex set up and stat requirements) sounds like a good idea.
The heal seems to be based more so around melee set ups, I could definitely see it working "great" for Sparkstorm + LS builds or as others have said, electric tanks.
But I think there should be a version which caters to what the set predominantly caters for...RANGED.
Old LArc's base is listed as 101-224 dmg over the ramp up, w/ the first 4 ticks ramping up +~30% per tick and the remaining 5 ticks on a plateau after that.
Really? I'd have to test that, my impression was that ramping maintains were flat gain per tic. It's still around an 8% damage loss.
Some ramping maintains do work that way, but for some the last 4-5 ticks don't ramp up; old LArc is in the latter category. Test it if ya want, though; its good to get corroboration.
However, since the QWZ is "endgame", and these powers are also used in the OTHER 90% of the game, they should not be balanced primarily FOR use in the QWZ.
...are you saying the other 90% of the game outside of QWZ is all single target enemies that are really dangerous? Not really sure where your statement is going. If you level up via missions and actually need any form of healing, then these powers would be very useful since missions tend towards groups. If you level up via Grab, then these powers become even more useful - if you end up in one of those grabs where nobody is lvl 40, and you're not lucky enough to have a healer on board, then this kind of power becomes very powerful... hell it can practically carry the team. At cosmics there may only be one big boss, but there are also other people around you that the power will heal every time you use it, rather than just healing you. Open events will often have groups of enemies...large ones in fact - High Noon at the towers, Nightmare invasion around the orbs, Bloodmoon, etc...
Yeah, that other 90% of the game does matter... but it's where a power like this can really shine. Oh and it's beast in QWZ. Even single-target encounters like the four cosmics show great opportunity to utilize them. If you really understand these powers and their potential impact it turns out that 100% of the game is where they're useful.
I agree. So why base the core mechanism of a healing power around their presence?
Because it's potentially really strong. If you see no value in that, then just take Conviction. I mean what... did you just want them to make a carbon copy of Conviction with some electric visuals? Conviction is already in the game, and this update won't be removing it, so if that's what you really want go for it. Like I pointed out, even with just 2 enemies these powers soar into the lead, and many groups will have more than 1 enemy that's still there after you've blown away the gnats. If those guys get blown away easily as well then you were just in a fight where healing doesn't matter at all and the real question if this is the only kind of content you do would be "why did you waste a slot on any heal at all?".
But it still feels like a very niche power, with a complex set up and limited use, which is the issue.
"Apply Negative Ions" is a "complex set up" for an electric character? Here I thought electric characters were doing that anyways. Maybe I'm super advanced elite and amazingly cool... but "use one power before using this other power" doesn't seem complicated to me.
As for "niche", tying these powers to a given debuff doesn't make them niche - "healing yourself" can't be niche because of its broad applications across the entire game - what it does do is make them something you have to somewhat build around to be able to use effectively, and it also makes them more themey. More themed heals is something we've been asking for for years. It also serves as an interesting restriction on their potential immense power. The fact that some people can't see, or can't effectively utilize, this power doesn't make it niche.
PS - I'll mention once again that you're not being forced to choose between Conviction and these powers. You can take them both, so there's really no reason to try to make these powers a carbon copy of Conviction.
My general point wasn't so much about the nature of this type of heal power as much as it was about the toggle form for Electricity, and how it should do more than just replicate the effect of Concentration - a consumable buff to the player's damage and healing as a reward for using the toggle (with its more complex set up and stat requirements) sounds like a good idea.
Again, what complex set up? I was using this form on PTS and there was nothing complicated about it - use your powers and it stacks right up, no issue. I used to think like you about the Sorcery form... until I actually used it and realized it's neither complex nor restricting enough to warrant any sort of special bonus.
Also, you might want to entertain the idea that the more "simple" forms aren't going to stay that way forever. There's clearly a new standard being set with these new forms which would indicate that at some point Concentration and Chilled are going to change as well and are only staying as is for ranged sets that haven't gotten their own unique form yet.
Do mine eyes decieve me or have they literally just done exactly what they did to Assault rifle, only without the ability for movement... Seriously, if you guys insist on making Lightning Arc a tier 3, remove the movement lock for pete sake. You're already taking it's primary reason for existing by docking its damage potential downward which was the entire point of its movement being restricted.
Thinking about it a bit, why not a "Conviction alternative" with this extra NI-consumption healing as an advantage? This way, it can be useful, no-BS, theme-appropriate heal for every electric user instead of just those who will always be in melee range. Those who want that extra kick and are okay with the range issues can have what they want, too.
You get your high-risk, high-reward healing option while others can skip that in favor of something that works more reliably and is more suitable for a ranged framework. Everybody wins that way.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Thinking about it a bit, why not a "Conviction alternative" with this extra NI-consumption healing as an advantage? This way, it can be useful, no-BS, theme-appropriate heal for every electric user instead of just those who will always be in melee range. Those who want that extra kick and are okay with the range issues can have what they want, too.
You get your high-risk, high-reward healing option while others can skip that in favor of something that works more reliably and is more suitable for a ranged framework. Everybody wins that way.
Nah, we need to move forward on power variety, not stay where we are right now with superficial differences. If you want Conviction, take conviction. If you want a power that tries to actually be an Electricity power based heal rather than something that just heals you for no apparent reason, take the new one. "I just want two Convictions" is not a good justification for the advantage you propose; and yes, even if that wasn't your intent, that's what it would be. Think about it. Who knows, maybe at some point Conviction will get similar mechanics where you have to absorb Illumination.
Nah, we need to move forward on power variety, not stay where we are right now with superficial differences. If you want Conviction, take conviction. If you want a power that tries to actually be an Electricity power based heal rather than something that just heals you for no apparent reason, take the new one.
The advantage doesn't need to be "superficial." There's plenty of advantages that change how powers work rather significantly. This advantage could literally be designed to be a choice between "an electric-themed alternative to Conviction" and "the wonky NI-consuming Absorb Heat knockoff we have currently."
Besides, any argument claiming that every power needs to be special-snowflake different evaporates when you step back and look at all of the melee stuns, lunges, and tethers we have.
It's about offering theme-based diversity. Maybe an ego blades user doesn't make much sense whipping out a heavy weapon to stun foes. Likewise, maybe a dude in a robot suit doesn't make much sense making himself all celestial-glowy when he tries to heal.
"I just want two Convictions" is not a good justification for the advantage you propose; and yes, even if that wasn't your intent, that's what it would be. Think about it.
Who knows, maybe at some point Conviction will get similar mechanics where you have to absorb Illumination.
Mother of god, I hope not. Not now, not ever. I promise, a huge number of people would drop it from their builds in a heartbeat, especially if you stop and think about how illumination is an absolute trash buff in the first place. Those who kept it...oh boy, should they also be expected to use it within 15 feet of targets? FFS no. Take that idea behind the shed and put it out of its misery, then burn the body so it doesn't come back.
Electrical Current should be allowed to use breath weapon animations as an option.
Unfortunately, I don't think the game's inner workings allow for that kind of choice--just the typical head/hand/fist/chest options or a fixed setting. And given the choice, I'd rather it shot out of my hands than my mouth.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Electrical Current should be allowed to use breath weapon animations as an option.
Likewise, the breath attacks could use a chest/palm/fist set of animations. My pyronic battlesuit would make so much more sense if the flame cone came from the HAND.
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Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Nah, we need to move forward on power variety, not stay where we are right now with superficial differences.
Sigh. You say that right after a post advocating the New World Order where every powerset has its own unique toggle, and the more general ones have gone the way of the dodo. Which largely goes against the idea of a diverse character base where powers are picked because they fit the player's idea of its theme, and not the arbitrary set choices handed to us by the game in a character class based fashion.
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Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
So, check me if I'm missing something, folks. A new style electrical character needs:
Ego: for ranged damage Rec: for Ionic Reverberation End: for the Power Source toggle Con: because otherwise bosses will one-shot you through your blocks.
Why does this set need two energy stats? And why does Ego seem to be in the doghouse when it comes to ranged damage sets?
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Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Sigh. You say that right after a post advocating the New World Order where every powerset has its own unique toggle, and the more general ones have gone the way of the dodo. Which largely goes against the idea of a diverse character base where powers are picked because they fit the player's idea of its theme, and not the arbitrary set choices handed to us by the game in a character class based fashion.
You realize you just tried to argue that "unique" and "diverse" are opposing qualities right? You're also trying to argue that "generic" and "diverse" are complimentary. Think about that. Think about how diverse builds are when they're all using the same form.
The advantage doesn't need to be "superficial." There's plenty of advantages that change how powers work rather significantly. This advantage could literally be designed to be a choice between "an electric-themed alternative to Conviction" and "the wonky NI-consuming Absorb Heat knockoff we have currently."
Besides, any argument claiming that every power needs to be special-snowflake different evaporates when you step back and look at all of the melee stuns, lunges, and tethers we have.
It's about offering theme-based diversity. Maybe an ego blades user doesn't make much sense whipping out a heavy weapon to stun foes. Likewise, maybe a dude in a robot suit doesn't make much sense making himself all celestial-glowy when he tries to heal.
Er, the advantage wouldn't be superficial... the theme of the base power being an electric heal would be superficial. You need to understand that theme goes beyond just vfx, and mechanics are as much a part of theme as vfx are.
Lunges and tethers, you'll notice, have different effects, so not sure where you were going with that. Go read the descriptions if you don't believe me. Yeah, a few powers here and there have generic copies... is that a justification for these heals being generic copies? Nope. They can make generic copies, but in all cases it's better and more engaging if they don't.
Also there's nothing celestial about Conviction's glow, it's just a single color full body glow.
So now you want to take away people's choice in taking multiple, unique healing powers... what happened to build diversity? How about instead you just take Conviction and tell yourself "electric self healing glows blue"? Hell slap electric aura on your character and and just imagine "I'm infusing myself with ions!". Physical appearance is all you care about right?
Mother of god, I hope not. Not now, not ever. I promise, a huge number of people would drop it from their builds in a heartbeat, especially if you stop and think about how illumination is an absolute trash buff in the first place. Those who kept it...oh boy, should they also be expected to use it within 15 feet of targets? FFS no. Take that idea behind the shed and put it out of its misery, then burn the body so it doesn't come back.
Hey just a theory based on observations of patterns and trends. The question is, once they drop it what are they replacing it with? Think about it.
So, check me if I'm missing something, folks. A new style electrical character needs:
Ego: for ranged damage Rec: for Ionic Reverberation End: for the Power Source toggle Con: because otherwise bosses will one-shot you through your blocks.
Why does this set need two energy stats? And why does Ego seem to be in the doghouse when it comes to ranged damage sets?
There's really no issue here. First off you only need Con if you're a tank, and second the ranged damage bonus from Ego is pretty meaningless due to dr. Let's say you're going Ego primary for both your dps and tank toon. Your ranged would go Ego Rec/End, and your tank would go Ego End/Con ( get some extra recovery from your talents, slot a mod if you think you really need to, I wouldn't ). If you're going some other PSS, then just swap ego for that.
So, check me if I'm missing something, folks. A new style electrical character needs:
Ego: for ranged damage Rec: for Ionic Reverberation End: for the Power Source toggle Con: because otherwise bosses will one-shot you through your blocks.
Why does this set need two energy stats? And why does Ego seem to be in the doghouse when it comes to ranged damage sets?
There's really no issue here. First off you only need Con if you're a tank, and second the ranged damage bonus from Ego is pretty meaningless due to dr. Let's say you're going Ego primary for both your dps and tank toon. Your ranged would go Ego Rec/End, and your tank would go Ego End/Con ( get some extra recovery from your talents, slot a mod if you think you really need to, I wouldn't ). If you're going some other PSS, then just swap ego for that.
Some of these may be reiterations, but its good to go over them:
Bug: Electric Current's dmg and Arc dmg doesn't properly rank up (check if the stun duration is also ranking up, since its hard to tell w/ the tooltips as is).
Bug: Sometimes Power Surge randomly procs multiple_extra stacks of Untapped Power when out-of-combat (this is at rank 1). I am unsure what causes this, as it happens even when idle- perhaps it has to do w/ nearby npc auras refreshing or something.
Bug: Electric Sheath's 25% NI apply on any attack apply either doesn't work at all or doesn't work w/ non-Electricity attacks.
Bug: Electric Siphon's Charged Up adv doesn't require targets to have NI for it to proc. Charged Up can also gain multiple stacks, and its unclear if that's intended via the tooltip. (Charged Up on Lightning Clap doesn't seem to have this issue)
Bug: Neuroelectric Pulse doesn't proc Ionic Reverb when hitting targets that have NI (it can proc Power Surge then, though).
"Superconductor" is misspelled on Chain Lightning's and Electrocute's tooltip advs for it.
I'm also a bit confused as to what Electric Sheath's bonus to 'Energy Generation' applies to, since it didn't seem to boost the energy gains from energy building, Ionic Reverb, or Power Source. This also seems to be the case for Electric Form's 'Energy Recovery' bonus. I assume its towards out-of-combat regen or decay? But its not really clarified in the tooltips.
Would also be nice if Sigils of the Storm applied or interacted w/ NI and/or Superconductor in some way, to make it more cohesive w/ Electricity as a whole. This would also further differentiate it from Sorcery's Destruction sigils.
I'd also revisit Gigabolt. Not just for the 8-sec Elec Surge debuff being rather long of a charge lockout, but perhaps to make its Arcing behavior and NI interactions a bit more straightforward.
Most of the cross-set toggle interactions (Enrage w/ knocks, Manip w/ Stuns/roots, PBurn w/ PAccelerator) seem to check out. AoE vs. single target flagging also seems to be okay (assuming Chain Lightning chains + Arc effects are meant to be ST flagged).
Er, the advantage wouldn't be superficial... the theme of the base power being an electric heal would be superficial. You need to understand that theme goes beyond just vfx, and mechanics are as much a part of theme as vfx are.
Right. Luckily themewise, a Conviction-style heal would fit an electrical theme just fine. "You absorb energy from the surrounding environment to heal yourself." Did you know that negative ions occur naturally in the environment?
Oh, and I never said the advantage would be superficial because it doesn't need to be. There's plenty of other advantages that make a huge difference in what the power does and how it can be used.
Lunges and tethers, you'll notice, have different effects, so not sure where you were going with that. Go read the descriptions if you don't believe me. Yeah, a few powers here and there have generic copies... is that a justification for these heals being generic copies? Nope. They can make generic copies, but in all cases it's better and more engaging if they don't.
In many cases, the differences are found in the advantages. For example, Void Shift and Smoke Bomb Lunge are pretty much the same in their basic effects. Still, the main reasons you'd take one over the other are:
1) Visual effects. Maybe a shadowy blink doesn't fit your character theme, but throwing down a smoke bomb to vanish and reappear does. Electrical Siphon looks different from Conviction, both in character animation and visual effects. This right here gives players a compelling choice, even if they don't plan on using any special advantages on either.
2) Advantages. Both Void Shift and Smoke Bomb Lunge offer a different utility advantage. All of the tethers (in addition to other subtle differences) have different special advantages. Electrical Siphon as a Conviction variant doesn't need to do everything exactly like Conviction, either. Maybe it forgoes the temporary HP "shield" (I'm aware of the semi-buggy nature of this, but that's for another topic) in favor of something else, setting the two apart even more.
Also there's nothing celestial about Conviction's glow, it's just a single color full body glow.
It's fairly light in terms of brightness. This causes it to look really bad on dark-themed characters. Even edgy colors like purple, red, or infernal green can look out of place.
So now you want to take away people's choice in taking multiple, unique healing powers... what happened to build diversity?
Again, you're completely missing the part about "slap Electrical Siphon's current behavior on an advantage." That literally makes it more useful for the bulk of people using this framework (ranged users attacking at range, take R2/R3) while still giving the handful of electric tanks and melee folks something extra when they take R2 and the advantage. It's literally a win-win for everyone vs a win for some, loss for most.
Hey just a theory based on observations of patterns and trends. The question is, once they drop it what are they replacing it with? Think about it.
What they replace it with depends on whatever's the most reliable. In one of your videos, I seem to recall you using something like Arcane Vitality. There's several Lifedrain options. BCR is even fine if you're okay with the healing being spread out rather than delivered in a single lump. Or maybe they try to weave passive healing effects (illuminated heal, light everlasting, stim pack and its variants. Crit-heavy melee characters would probably get decent mileage out of ego weaponry's siphoning strikes. Or maybe they don't replace it with a heal because none of the above are what they're looking for--in this particular case, you've effectively taken away a useful power and replaced it with another lame narrow-use knockoff of something most people don't seem to bother with.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Bug: Power Source is constantly generating stacks of Untapped Power for some unknown reason. Circumstantial evidence points to stacking conditions being fulfilled by other players near the user.
I would like if our new form was different from the others in terms of the bonuses it provides. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I'm sick of most of the toggle forms providing damage bonuses to both Ranged and Melee. I recommend replacing the Melee Damage portion of this form with a minor Crowd Control Strength boost. This would allow for an easier time to make use of the new Crowd Control synergies that Electricity is providing.
Old Bug: Arcs originating from enemies who die from the attack which the arc is coming from will not successfully arc to another target for extra damage.
Anyone wanna show off what Thundering return looks like?
Oops, meant to reply to this earlier, but I forgot:
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Anyway, based on the latest changes:
Storm Summoner
It's a lot better, but it still seems to fall behind compared to Lstorm, both in terms of raw damage and in terms of sustainability. The NI interaction being limited to the final strike makes it poor at sustaining itself compared to Lightning Storm and Sparkstorm. It really needs per-tick arcing, just for the NI interaction if nothing else.
Electrical Current
The Ultimate Power! advantage is...interesting. And by interesting, I mean jesus christ that's a lot of energy.
The thing is, it's generally a reasonable power in terms of sustaining itself even without that advantage. What if the advantage just increased the arc chance by a significant amount? It'd still generate more energy since there's more NI interaction, but also, it'd be a justifiable option over taking the standard-issue rank 3.
Also, as the picture implies, there's a visual bug with the power, where part of it streams toward your target as expected, but other parts of it stream out in front of you, regardless of which way you're facing. You can face away from your target, use this power, and have electricity shooting out pointlessly in front of you in addition to shooting out of your back toward your target.
Electric Shield
Thank you for bringing this one up to par with the rest. Are there any plans to do anything about the advantage though? It's still pretty poopy and lame, especially given its cost. The only thing it has going is the stylish animation.
Power Source
I'm still worried about this power. Massive amounts of Endurance aren't really that vital to Electric powers, especially now that Lightning Storm's absurd cost (and excessive damage) has been reigned in. Plus, I'm sure most people would rather use a form that favors the stacking of a stat which augments their damage, such as Dex, Int, or Ego. The specific way this form stacks itself (applying/consuming Negative Ions) means it can't even see niche uses in odd, non-electric builds with massive amounts of Endurance. This poor form needs at least one of the following:
Its stacking mechanics need to be more generic like Concentration
It needs a second stat to partner with, ideally a stat which makes a good, damage-oriented primary superstat for ranged powers. Dex, Int, or Ego are all good choices. Dex probably makes the most sense.
It needs some other feature to set itself apart from competing forms that will make me want to take it on an Electric-focused character over concentration or chilled form. Maybe it could boost healing, boost control strength, have better energy returns, apply a personal shield each time it adds a stack, etc just to name a few ideas.
Electrical Siphon
I've pretty much said my piece on this power in the various exchanges between me and Spinnytop, so I'll just say that I hope there's some plans to make this a better healing option for ranged users who don't want to sit in melee range.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
so far the changes are looking really good, however there are a couple of things that have me somewhat..worried
1: The new adv on electrical current when mixed with ionic reverb and power source gives you well over 100 energy a second.. that's... a little overkill isn't it?
2: Storm Strike...an ultimately disappointing ultimate, I was expecting it to either do more damage than it currently does, or have a larger AoE than it currently does for the damage to make sense.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Comments
PTS' LArc w/ the same base is a straight 151 dmg per tick, and over 9 ticks that's 1359 total dmg, or ~80% of the old LArc base.
Adding back in Superconductor can close much of that gap (on paper), but all options for adding/refreshing that debuff are still a dps loss for single-targets. On the other side, you won't lose as much dps from having to cancel LArc early for w/e reason, so there's ups and downs to the changes, but they fall apart if NI and Superconductor can't be kept up reliably and efficiently.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Yes, but Conviction is a single press, quick recharge power, which you can use between blocks. Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat require a player to keep attacking in order to apply the buff the power needs to work; compared to blocking and using Conviction over a 30 second period you'll take more damage and heal less health. So why use it?
When it comes to fighting a group, Electrical Siphon springs into the lead by a huge margin.
Sort of. This game tends to spawn multiple low-level enemies who don't often live long enough to be affected by % chance debuffs. This means that Electrical Siphon and Absorb Heat are difficult to apply and quite flakey in effect. There are also those specializations which allow you to generate around +200 heals when you defeat the enemies, so you're not going to stop attacking to use a heal power which does little/no damage and generates only a similiar level of healing.
The only time these powers'mechanics make much sense is in the Q Zone, where you have multiple enemies with longevity; but then you find the amount of healing the powers provide is actually quite disappointing compared to the amount of damage you have to take to get the buffs applied. To be worthwhile they'd need to do almost double the amount they do, otherwise you're better off using the more general self-heals, or even relying on block, ADs and devices.
Yeah, against enemies that fall over as soon as you breath on them healing powers don't matter. In those scenarios it doesn't matter if you take conviction, electrical siphon, or a bite out of a baked potato... which means they're not really relevant. If your problem is "enemies die before I can use them to heal" then there is no problem.
With even just 2 enemies remaining after you've swept away the mooks, siphon already jumps into the lead.
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Block timing explained
I agree. So why base the core mechanism of a healing power around their presence?
I mean, if you want to see how this type of power can be really powerful, go watch my "QWZ daily speed run" video. It provides massive healing in certain scenarios - add to that the fact that it will also heal your group members, and it becomes a very powerful ability.
I can't see anything much in your video, spinny, although I do take the point. But it still feels like a very niche power, with a complex set up and limited use, which is the issue.
My general point wasn't so much about the nature of this type of heal power as much as it was about the toggle form for Electricity, and how it should do more than just replicate the effect of Concentration - a consumable buff to the player's damage and healing as a reward for using the toggle (with its more complex set up and stat requirements) sounds like a good idea.
But I think there should be a version which caters to what the set predominantly caters for...RANGED.
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Test it if ya want, though; its good to get corroboration.
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Yeah, that other 90% of the game does matter... but it's where a power like this can really shine. Oh and it's beast in QWZ. Even single-target encounters like the four cosmics show great opportunity to utilize them. If you really understand these powers and their potential impact it turns out that 100% of the game is where they're useful. Because it's potentially really strong. If you see no value in that, then just take Conviction. I mean what... did you just want them to make a carbon copy of Conviction with some electric visuals? Conviction is already in the game, and this update won't be removing it, so if that's what you really want go for it. Like I pointed out, even with just 2 enemies these powers soar into the lead, and many groups will have more than 1 enemy that's still there after you've blown away the gnats. If those guys get blown away easily as well then you were just in a fight where healing doesn't matter at all and the real question if this is the only kind of content you do would be "why did you waste a slot on any heal at all?". "Apply Negative Ions" is a "complex set up" for an electric character? Here I thought electric characters were doing that anyways. Maybe I'm super advanced elite and amazingly cool... but "use one power before using this other power" doesn't seem complicated to me.
As for "niche", tying these powers to a given debuff doesn't make them niche - "healing yourself" can't be niche because of its broad applications across the entire game - what it does do is make them something you have to somewhat build around to be able to use effectively, and it also makes them more themey. More themed heals is something we've been asking for for years. It also serves as an interesting restriction on their potential immense power. The fact that some people can't see, or can't effectively utilize, this power doesn't make it niche.
PS - I'll mention once again that you're not being forced to choose between Conviction and these powers. You can take them both, so there's really no reason to try to make these powers a carbon copy of Conviction.
Again, what complex set up? I was using this form on PTS and there was nothing complicated about it - use your powers and it stacks right up, no issue. I used to think like you about the Sorcery form... until I actually used it and realized it's neither complex nor restricting enough to warrant any sort of special bonus.
Also, you might want to entertain the idea that the more "simple" forms aren't going to stay that way forever. There's clearly a new standard being set with these new forms which would indicate that at some point Concentration and Chilled are going to change as well and are only staying as is for ranged sets that haven't gotten their own unique form yet.
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I do think Electric Shield could have a higher base defense %.
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You're already taking it's primary reason for existing by docking its damage potential downward which was the entire point of its movement being restricted.
@IonutRO
You get your high-risk, high-reward healing option while others can skip that in favor of something that works more reliably and is more suitable for a ranged framework. Everybody wins that way.
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Besides, any argument claiming that every power needs to be special-snowflake different evaporates when you step back and look at all of the melee stuns, lunges, and tethers we have.
It's about offering theme-based diversity. Maybe an ego blades user doesn't make much sense whipping out a heavy weapon to stun foes. Likewise, maybe a dude in a robot suit doesn't make much sense making himself all celestial-glowy when he tries to heal. 2 words: Shared cooldown. Mother of god, I hope not. Not now, not ever. I promise, a huge number of people would drop it from their builds in a heartbeat, especially if you stop and think about how illumination is an absolute trash buff in the first place. Those who kept it...oh boy, should they also be expected to use it within 15 feet of targets? FFS no. Take that idea behind the shed and put it out of its misery, then burn the body so it doesn't come back. Unfortunately, I don't think the game's inner workings allow for that kind of choice--just the typical head/hand/fist/chest options or a fixed setting. And given the choice, I'd rather it shot out of my hands than my mouth.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
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Supporter of the Titan Project.
Ego: for ranged damage
Rec: for Ionic Reverberation
End: for the Power Source toggle
Con: because otherwise bosses will one-shot you through your blocks.
Why does this set need two energy stats? And why does Ego seem to be in the doghouse when it comes to ranged damage sets?
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
Er, the advantage wouldn't be superficial... the theme of the base power being an electric heal would be superficial. You need to understand that theme goes beyond just vfx, and mechanics are as much a part of theme as vfx are.
Lunges and tethers, you'll notice, have different effects, so not sure where you were going with that. Go read the descriptions if you don't believe me. Yeah, a few powers here and there have generic copies... is that a justification for these heals being generic copies? Nope. They can make generic copies, but in all cases it's better and more engaging if they don't.
Also there's nothing celestial about Conviction's glow, it's just a single color full body glow.
So now you want to take away people's choice in taking multiple, unique healing powers... what happened to build diversity? How about instead you just take Conviction and tell yourself "electric self healing glows blue"? Hell slap electric aura on your character and and just imagine "I'm infusing myself with ions!". Physical appearance is all you care about right?
Hey just a theory based on observations of patterns and trends. The question is, once they drop it what are they replacing it with? Think about it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
@Chimerafreek
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Bug: Electric Current's dmg and Arc dmg doesn't properly rank up (check if the stun duration is also ranking up, since its hard to tell w/ the tooltips as is).
Bug: Sometimes Power Surge randomly procs multiple_extra stacks of Untapped Power when out-of-combat (this is at rank 1). I am unsure what causes this, as it happens even when idle- perhaps it has to do w/ nearby npc auras refreshing or something.
Bug: Electric Sheath's 25% NI apply on any attack apply either doesn't work at all or doesn't work w/ non-Electricity attacks.
Bug: Electric Siphon's Charged Up adv doesn't require targets to have NI for it to proc. Charged Up can also gain multiple stacks, and its unclear if that's intended via the tooltip.
(Charged Up on Lightning Clap doesn't seem to have this issue)
Bug: Neuroelectric Pulse doesn't proc Ionic Reverb when hitting targets that have NI (it can proc Power Surge then, though).
"Superconductor" is misspelled on Chain Lightning's and Electrocute's tooltip advs for it.
I'm also a bit confused as to what Electric Sheath's bonus to 'Energy Generation' applies to, since it didn't seem to boost the energy gains from energy building, Ionic Reverb, or Power Source. This also seems to be the case for Electric Form's 'Energy Recovery' bonus. I assume its towards out-of-combat regen or decay? But its not really clarified in the tooltips.
Would also be nice if Sigils of the Storm applied or interacted w/ NI and/or Superconductor in some way, to make it more cohesive w/ Electricity as a whole. This would also further differentiate it from Sorcery's Destruction sigils.
I'd also revisit Gigabolt. Not just for the 8-sec Elec Surge debuff being rather long of a charge lockout, but perhaps to make its Arcing behavior and NI interactions a bit more straightforward.
Most of the cross-set toggle interactions (Enrage w/ knocks, Manip w/ Stuns/roots, PBurn w/ PAccelerator) seem to check out. AoE vs. single target flagging also seems to be okay (assuming Chain Lightning chains + Arc effects are meant to be ST flagged).
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Oh, and I never said the advantage would be superficial because it doesn't need to be. There's plenty of other advantages that make a huge difference in what the power does and how it can be used. In many cases, the differences are found in the advantages. For example, Void Shift and Smoke Bomb Lunge are pretty much the same in their basic effects. Still, the main reasons you'd take one over the other are:
1) Visual effects. Maybe a shadowy blink doesn't fit your character theme, but throwing down a smoke bomb to vanish and reappear does. Electrical Siphon looks different from Conviction, both in character animation and visual effects. This right here gives players a compelling choice, even if they don't plan on using any special advantages on either.
2) Advantages. Both Void Shift and Smoke Bomb Lunge offer a different utility advantage. All of the tethers (in addition to other subtle differences) have different special advantages. Electrical Siphon as a Conviction variant doesn't need to do everything exactly like Conviction, either. Maybe it forgoes the temporary HP "shield" (I'm aware of the semi-buggy nature of this, but that's for another topic) in favor of something else, setting the two apart even more. It's fairly light in terms of brightness. This causes it to look really bad on dark-themed characters. Even edgy colors like purple, red, or infernal green can look out of place. Again, you're completely missing the part about "slap Electrical Siphon's current behavior on an advantage." That literally makes it more useful for the bulk of people using this framework (ranged users attacking at range, take R2/R3) while still giving the handful of electric tanks and melee folks something extra when they take R2 and the advantage. It's literally a win-win for everyone vs a win for some, loss for most. What they replace it with depends on whatever's the most reliable. In one of your videos, I seem to recall you using something like Arcane Vitality. There's several Lifedrain options. BCR is even fine if you're okay with the healing being spread out rather than delivered in a single lump. Or maybe they try to weave passive healing effects (illuminated heal, light everlasting, stim pack and its variants. Crit-heavy melee characters would probably get decent mileage out of ego weaponry's siphoning strikes. Or maybe they don't replace it with a heal because none of the above are what they're looking for--in this particular case, you've effectively taken away a useful power and replaced it with another lame narrow-use knockoff of something most people don't seem to bother with.
It not in the debugger Upcoming: Lockbox section.
I would like if our new form was different from the others in terms of the bonuses it provides. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I'm sick of most of the toggle forms providing damage bonuses to both Ranged and Melee. I recommend replacing the Melee Damage portion of this form with a minor Crowd Control Strength boost. This would allow for an easier time to make use of the new Crowd Control synergies that Electricity is providing.
Old Bug: Arcs originating from enemies who die from the attack which the arc is coming from will not successfully arc to another target for extra damage.
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Electric Shield is up to snuff now.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
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Anyway, based on the latest changes:
Storm Summoner
It's a lot better, but it still seems to fall behind compared to Lstorm, both in terms of raw damage and in terms of sustainability. The NI interaction being limited to the final strike makes it poor at sustaining itself compared to Lightning Storm and Sparkstorm. It really needs per-tick arcing, just for the NI interaction if nothing else.
Electrical Current
The Ultimate Power! advantage is...interesting. And by interesting, I mean jesus christ that's a lot of energy.
The thing is, it's generally a reasonable power in terms of sustaining itself even without that advantage. What if the advantage just increased the arc chance by a significant amount? It'd still generate more energy since there's more NI interaction, but also, it'd be a justifiable option over taking the standard-issue rank 3.
Also, as the picture implies, there's a visual bug with the power, where part of it streams toward your target as expected, but other parts of it stream out in front of you, regardless of which way you're facing. You can face away from your target, use this power, and have electricity shooting out pointlessly in front of you in addition to shooting out of your back toward your target.
Electric Shield
Thank you for bringing this one up to par with the rest. Are there any plans to do anything about the advantage though? It's still pretty poopy and lame, especially given its cost. The only thing it has going is the stylish animation.
Power Source
I'm still worried about this power. Massive amounts of Endurance aren't really that vital to Electric powers, especially now that Lightning Storm's absurd cost (and excessive damage) has been reigned in. Plus, I'm sure most people would rather use a form that favors the stacking of a stat which augments their damage, such as Dex, Int, or Ego. The specific way this form stacks itself (applying/consuming Negative Ions) means it can't even see niche uses in odd, non-electric builds with massive amounts of Endurance. This poor form needs at least one of the following:
Electrical Siphon
I've pretty much said my piece on this power in the various exchanges between me and Spinnytop, so I'll just say that I hope there's some plans to make this a better healing option for ranged users who don't want to sit in melee range.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Electrical Current's Bad Wiring advantage does not have a 100% stun chance against targets with Negative Ions.
1: The new adv on electrical current when mixed with ionic reverb and power source gives you well over 100 energy a second.. that's... a little overkill isn't it?
2: Storm Strike...an ultimately disappointing ultimate, I was expecting it to either do more damage than it currently does, or have a larger AoE than it currently does for the damage to make sense.
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Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?