Suggestion: Can the SFX for Storm Strike sound more like a super powerful lightning bolt being dragged down to Earth and striking with tremendous force instead of some sort of portal opening in Aftershock or Demonflame? The wind up SFX is good but the strike SFX is quite underwhelming.
It's EGO primary with roughly 350 EGO and 325 END, 100 or so CON.
I see a major aspect of your error: you split your stats. For effective dps, you should have 600-700 points in whatever stat scales your form, and no more than base investment elsewhere (is this the way the game should work? Probably not. It is, however, the way the game currently works).
It's EGO primary with roughly 350 EGO and 325 END, 100 or so CON.
I see a major aspect of your error: you split your stats. For effective dps, you should have 600-700 points in whatever stat scales your form, and no more than base investment elsewhere (is this the way the game should work? Probably not. It is, however, the way the game currently works).
That seems ridiculously high, surely that cannot be the case in general...can it?
That seems ridiculously high, surely that cannot be the case in general...can it?
Yes. Every optimized dps or support I've seen has their primary stat in the 600s, 700s, or occasionally 800s (mostly for degenerate aura builds). Tanks, because their damage scales off of a different stat than their durability and they need both, are less likely to be single-statted, though 700 Con builds are out there.
That seems ridiculously high, surely that cannot be the case in general...can it?
Yes. Every optimized dps or support I've seen has their primary stat in the 600s, 700s, or occasionally 800s (mostly for degenerate aura builds). Tanks, because their damage scales off of a different stat than their durability and they need both, are less likely to be single-statted, though 700 Con builds are out there.
Heh, so years after single statting is moved away from by the SG I'm in who was based on it...optimized builds start doing it...interesting.
It's EGO primary with roughly 350 EGO and 325 END, 100 or so CON.
I see a major aspect of your error: you split your stats. For effective dps, you should have 600-700 points in whatever stat scales your form, and no more than base investment elsewhere (is this the way the game should work? Probably not. It is, however, the way the game currently works).
Are you actually trying to say I'd do more damage with END primary and 700 END?
To be fair, when I was single statting END, I actually did damage close to what I do now, only difference being the crit severity for me is now higher so I crit harder when I crit.
You could boost EGO to 500 and take Concentration or boost END to single statting and go nuts with the new form. It's not as rewarding having tested it on PTS though.
You suspect power source is bugged and not giving proper damage?
Or it might just be bad. Or there could be some other issues involved. However, as a side note, I only consider dps comparisons valid if they're being done either by the same person, or by people who I've previously validated as getting similar numbers on other sets. As your numbers were significantly lower than other people's on the last such comparison I remember (new ego blades) there may be some other methodological factor.
That seems ridiculously high, surely that cannot be the case in general...can it?
Per the endgame dps build guide (in my sig), if you want to maximize damage then: Set up your superstat spec tree + Damage Form in such a way that a SINGLE stat will buff both the General Layer and the Severity Layer. This way you can mod everything towards that one stat so that all 537 points buff both layers.
If you take the END toggle then go Ego Primary w Sixth Sense at r3....this way, all your END investment will buff both the toggle forms damage and buff your crit chance.
clearly people can see electric is NOT doing too much damage.
It's always possible to make something to less damage all the way down to 0. The question is: how high can elec go vs how high can another ranged powerset go.
Not being able to pump out a parser that is equal to what Vixy has with other builds doesn't really matter since most people aren't going to abuse the hell out of everything to get those numbers. As long as people can get decent results with modest gear, that's all that really matters. And that ain't happenin' with End stacking. Especially with weaker gear.
There isn't really a point in stacking End when you can get better results with other stats. I mean FFS, Ego has innate damage and hold resistance so you spend more time being able to attack things. End gives you a big a-- energy bar. That's never going to compare and it doesn't even include what the trees can give you. Or can't in End's case.
Keep in mind too that Ego still gives passive ranged dmg bonus. Even if its final dmg contribution is greatly diminished on a geared dps, it may be significant if switching to single-stating Ego.
I can't parse, but I can look at numbers in game. On a 505 End setup with INT/End/Ego and Guardicator, Power Source's tooltip says it gives ~19% ranged dmg per stack, w/ +20% extra ranged dmg from 70 Ego. At 8 stacks, the R3 LArc tooltip reads at 1050 dmg per tick. Testing on the regen dummy seems to reflect this number, given natural variance.
W/ the same setup but switching gear to 508 Ego and Concentration, Conc's tooltip reads that it gives ~19% ranged dmg per stack, and Ego's ranged bonus is +53%. LArc's tooltip reads at 1121 dmg at 8 stacks of Conc. That's about a 6.8% boost over End + Power Source, which is prob explained by Ego's extra bonus + 2/2 Expertise (I assume a 33% bonus becomes ~40% then, and for passive dmg that translating to +6-7% final dmg sounds about right to me).
So, I don't think anything is awry w/ Power Source, but that just looking at tooltips and short in-game logs.
Well my parse for ego/concentration is up there, and it's not overpowered at all, considering the top gear I used.
Yea, I'm not saying one setup is OP or not; just looking to see if anything funky is going on w/ Power Source. It doesn't look like it, from what I can tell.
If the Devs are interested in having END as a primary SS, I hope they look at Outburst in the End Specialization tree. When I tested it on my fire toon I did not seem to be getting a 5%/10%/15% damage increase. The actual numbers seemed quite low.
At max points, it seems to be roughly 10% that's being applied to the base power only. The bonus damage does not appear to be increased by any modifiers such as gear, passives or forms.
On a level 40 geared toon with an offensive passive and a form power, I'm seeing a damage increase a little below or above 3% depending on the power.
Yeah, End PSS is underwhelming, and Outburst is one reason why. That 15% passive dmg bonus is prob only going to translate into a 2-3% final dmg boost for a geared dps. And that comes w/ a strict energy stipulation (>90%) and an energy penalty to boot. Mine as well just take Power Overwhelming and Hardened instead, if you bother w/ the tree.
I'm not sure they're ready or willing to tackle specs yet, though. Prob be better to address them all in one sweep, if so. In the meantime, just take End as an SSS and use a diff PSS for dps.
I would rather have synergy with the force framework by adding more knock advantages.
Mix Electric+Force and you get Magnetism
but currently force gets absolutly NOTHING until it gets revamped from being just "Force Cascade poweframe"
what are you gonna currently archieve with knocks? nothing because Force doesn't even utilize it right beyond annoyance
Alas, they just went through a lot of effort earlier in the year to make sure Power Armor (ie: Particle) doesn't synergize with anything else, and Sonic is the abandoned red-headed stepchild of special effects.
Sigh... you are not wrong, not wrong at all :dissapointed:
Post edited by avianos on
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For top gear 5-6k dps seems about right for a ranged set. Power armor does similar at 100 feet.
Don't try to say you're not min maxing to get it that high, and since you are that dps is expected.
It more just has to do w/ relative performance for a similar amount of stat allocation or investment. ofc, other properties like LArc's self-rooting nature and higher cost also has to be factored in now, say vs. something like optimized AR at 100ft. I'd say it more has to do w/ not having as many ranged options being competitive at 100ft, though. Aside from Elec- there's Ice, maybe Force/FC (energy permitting), maybe Muni/AR, PA, ranged TK, Sorcery, Darkness, and Infernal/Defile. Others that are blast-based def aren't as competitive since blast base dps sucks.
Wind? Typhoon isn't quite strong enough and debuffs don't overlap easily atm (Cold + Crushing? good luck; also Wind Reverb's design is outdated imo). Gadgets? Nah- though PBR can do okay, Particle debuffs for it are not 100ft or are PA toggles w/ lockouts (and aren't in-set anyways). Fire or Earth at 100ft? Hell no, and same w/ TP and Celestial at 100ft. Archery also falls a bit short (though for more valid reasons: no lockdown, multiple CC options at 100ft, most attacks have an AoE component).
edit: just checked the pts, w/o specific dmg modifiers, AR's base dmg per tick is the same as LArc's. LArc has the NI bonus going for it, while AR is ~15-20% cheaper at base and allows some movement. AR also has a 30% dmg adv, though this requires specific upkeep (3x Furious). Muni also doesn't have a good 100ft 'DoT' like Elec does in Ball of Lit. Soul Beams' base dmg per tick is also the same, and that's prob more comparable than AR (roots, higher cost like LArc, has a 10-20% extra dmg stipulation). TKA is also similar- a bit less base dps than the others (~7%), but an upto 20% dmg stipulation (ELeech, which also lowers cost), and it doesn't lockdown at all. Debuffs and/or long-range DoT addons prob make more the diff than the base dps of the maintains themselves.
For top gear 5-6k dps seems about right for a ranged set. Power armor does similar at 100 feet.
Don't try to say you're not min maxing to get it that high, and since you are that dps is expected.
When I min/max I get it to 6.8k. Per an earlier post:
No other set comes close. Even when I try to min/max them. And 100ft sets get utterly obliterated. PA being the sole exception. That is pure and simple fact - when you min/max - Elec destroys everything except for PA. If the devs intend that then great and if they don't then now they know.
Now if you stay in-set and don't use any damage buffs other than your form and passive you get this:
If we're going to compare at 100ft, in-set toggles buffed to the max, then the above is also unbeatable. With the exception of PA.
Debuffs and/or long-range DoT addons prob make more the diff than the base dps of the maintains themselves.
LArc on its own with NI is still at or very very near the top. But yes the bigger difference is taking the most damaging ranged maintain and giving it a 100ft debuff that's super easy to refresh and apply + giving it the best ranged DoT in the game, which is now Ball Lightning per this change.
But go ahead! nerf electric! its OP! omg! but when everyone else stops using it for their dps needs except for you because it's no longer able to put out reasonable numbers with a larger variety of stat combos, remember this argument.
I can't nerf Electric so there's nothing to argue. The results are what they are. If the devs don't intend those to be possible then they'll nerf it and if they're ok with those results then they'll keep it as is.
so far ALL your parses have been EGO-END-DEX. try END-EGO-CON and EGO-END-CON.
The min max parse was Ego-Rec-Dex. What would be the point in removing Dex for Con? So you'll get 40 Con instead of 40 Dex.....all the other comparable powersets would suffer the same small amount of loss in DPS and get the same tiny boost in hp and Elec would still come out ahead.
Eh, if anything they could nerf Ball of Lit a bit if they feel its out of line. I think they do indeed intend on Elec being one of the best 100ft ranged setups for raw dps, though. The question may more be 'by how much?'.
Ball Lightning's explosion part is going to get toned back a bit as the crit/sev changes have brought it a bit higher than where it should be.
While Ball Lightning does function as a dot, mechanically it's a pet and is prone to some pet dilemmas like pathing to target, moving targets, and so on, so we are thinking about when making adjustments.
My old electric build has been Ego (ca. 550), Rec, Con (with some End from Talents) I tried it on PTS and didn't have any energy issues, but I've no idea how the dps was. Just curious if you have experimented with that combination, and, if so, what you found.
so far ALL your parses have been EGO-END-DEX. try END-EGO-CON and EGO-END-CON.
The min max parse was Ego-Rec-Dex. What would be the point in removing Dex for Con? So you'll get 40 Con instead of 40 Dex.....all the other comparable powersets would suffer the same small amount of loss in DPS and get the same tiny boost in hp and Elec would still come out ahead.
Ball Lightning's explosion part is going to get toned back a bit as the crit/sev changes have brought it a bit higher than where it should be.
While Ball Lightning does function as a dot, mechanically it's a pet and is prone to some pet dilemmas like pathing to target, moving targets, and so on, so we are thinking about when making adjustments.
While Ball Lightning does function as a dot, mechanically it's a pet and is prone to some pet dilemmas like pathing to target, moving targets, and so on, so we are thinking about when making adjustments.
On the other hand, it does have the option to jump target if its initial target is defeated. This is occasionally troublesome (kiga dogs) but usually beneficial.
Once concentration becomes Int only, much of this discussion will be academic.
If they make Concentration INT only, they're going to have to make a few AT changes to support this.
Inferno, Squall, Soldier, Glacier, Mountain, Void, Night Avenger all have Concentration and no INT stat.
On top of that, they'd probably make Chilled Form EGO only, since they already have several DEX only forms, and we don't want one stat to be the objectively best choice for ranged build forms do we.
Also, I wonder if the Ultimate Power adv on Elec Current is still getting a revisit or a rework. The energy gain is pretty crazy atm when combined w/ Ionic Reverb and Power Source (moreso the former).
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Last I checked, Lightning isn't slow, if it is shown to be slower than an instant then its to show it off more so than anything.
As shown earlier in this thread you can get some pretty nice screenshots with it if you want to look at it more.
I don't see a problem with this ult's visuals, it's pretty and when used in optimal or close to optimal conditions it seems to perform very well.
My only gripe with it is the SFX could be more impactful in my opinion. Perhaps allow it to give a screen shake upon impact like Sonic Device can do.
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Well that's interesting to know. Thanks!
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You could boost EGO to 500 and take Concentration or boost END to single statting and go nuts with the new form. It's not as rewarding having tested it on PTS though.
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Set up your superstat spec tree + Damage Form in such a way that a SINGLE stat will buff both the General Layer and the Severity Layer. This way you can mod everything towards that one stat so that all 537 points buff both layers.
If you take the END toggle then go Ego Primary w Sixth Sense at r3....this way, all your END investment will buff both the toggle forms damage and buff your crit chance.
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There isn't really a point in stacking End when you can get better results with other stats. I mean FFS, Ego has innate damage and hold resistance so you spend more time being able to attack things. End gives you a big a-- energy bar. That's never going to compare and it doesn't even include what the trees can give you. Or can't in End's case.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I can't parse, but I can look at numbers in game. On a 505 End setup with INT/End/Ego and Guardicator, Power Source's tooltip says it gives ~19% ranged dmg per stack, w/ +20% extra ranged dmg from 70 Ego. At 8 stacks, the R3 LArc tooltip reads at 1050 dmg per tick. Testing on the regen dummy seems to reflect this number, given natural variance.
W/ the same setup but switching gear to 508 Ego and Concentration, Conc's tooltip reads that it gives ~19% ranged dmg per stack, and Ego's ranged bonus is +53%. LArc's tooltip reads at 1121 dmg at 8 stacks of Conc. That's about a 6.8% boost over End + Power Source, which is prob explained by Ego's extra bonus + 2/2 Expertise (I assume a 33% bonus becomes ~40% then, and for passive dmg that translating to +6-7% final dmg sounds about right to me).
So, I don't think anything is awry w/ Power Source, but that just looking at tooltips and short in-game logs.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
At max points, it seems to be roughly 10% that's being applied to the base power only. The bonus damage does not appear to be increased by any modifiers such as gear, passives or forms.
On a level 40 geared toon with an offensive passive and a form power, I'm seeing a damage increase a little below or above 3% depending on the power.
I'm not sure they're ready or willing to tackle specs yet, though. Prob be better to address them all in one sweep, if so. In the meantime, just take End as an SSS and use a diff PSS for dps.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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Mix Electric+Force and you get Magnetism
but currently force gets absolutly NOTHING until it gets revamped from being just "Force Cascade poweframe"
what are you gonna currently archieve with knocks? nothing because Force doesn't even utilize it right beyond annoyance Basically, But i also expect the Energy Projectiles to have synergy like Mystic powers have with each other (kinda)
Sigh... you are not wrong, not wrong at all :dissapointed:
I can't think of any 100ft set that can get this kind of dps by just relying on the form and passive. Most 50ft sets will have trouble as well.
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Wind? Typhoon isn't quite strong enough and debuffs don't overlap easily atm (Cold + Crushing? good luck; also Wind Reverb's design is outdated imo). Gadgets? Nah- though PBR can do okay, Particle debuffs for it are not 100ft or are PA toggles w/ lockouts (and aren't in-set anyways). Fire or Earth at 100ft? Hell no, and same w/ TP and Celestial at 100ft. Archery also falls a bit short (though for more valid reasons: no lockdown, multiple CC options at 100ft, most attacks have an AoE component).
edit: just checked the pts, w/o specific dmg modifiers, AR's base dmg per tick is the same as LArc's. LArc has the NI bonus going for it, while AR is ~15-20% cheaper at base and allows some movement. AR also has a 30% dmg adv, though this requires specific upkeep (3x Furious). Muni also doesn't have a good 100ft 'DoT' like Elec does in Ball of Lit. Soul Beams' base dmg per tick is also the same, and that's prob more comparable than AR (roots, higher cost like LArc, has a 10-20% extra dmg stipulation). TKA is also similar- a bit less base dps than the others (~7%), but an upto 20% dmg stipulation (ELeech, which also lowers cost), and it doesn't lockdown at all. Debuffs and/or long-range DoT addons prob make more the diff than the base dps of the maintains themselves.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Are they also going to make Chilled Form DEX only?
(PS: Why are quotes going wacko? Cannot get this one to quote right!)
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No other set comes close. Even when I try to min/max them. And 100ft sets get utterly obliterated. PA being the sole exception. That is pure and simple fact - when you min/max - Elec destroys everything except for PA. If the devs intend that then great and if they don't then now they know.
Now if you stay in-set and don't use any damage buffs other than your form and passive you get this:
If we're going to compare at 100ft, in-set toggles buffed to the max, then the above is also unbeatable. With the exception of PA.
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
While Ball Lightning does function as a dot, mechanically it's a pet and is prone to some pet dilemmas like pathing to target, moving targets, and so on, so we are thinking about when making adjustments.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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Inferno, Squall, Soldier, Glacier, Mountain, Void, Night Avenger all have Concentration and no INT stat.
On top of that, they'd probably make Chilled Form EGO only, since they already have several DEX only forms, and we don't want one stat to be the objectively best choice for ranged build forms do we.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!