I don't think they have six months. In fairness to the devs, for everything they do, they're probably working to an insane timetable. But this is all a bit of a horrible mess.
Laser Sword is a niche powerset, you don't see it much in the game, and the devs really could just leave it as it is and have almost no negative impact.
The Power Armour/EU changes are the ones that need a bit of calm reflection, not just policy driven "we're doing x" which will make a right mess of many people's builds and enjoyment of the game.
What I said (or meant to say) was that I'd rather they took their time on this to get it right than push out the crappy single blade reskin currently sitting on PTS.
I know what you meant, however the set should have been mostly good-to-go by the time it ended up on PTS. And it probably is about what we're going to get once it gets pushed to live. There was no reason why Laser Sword needed to be effectively removed from the game instead of tweaked to be a high tier power that it mostly already was. There was also no reason why our dev couldn't have built around the high energy, high damage thing that the set had going for it.
All that talk about not wanting to just be a Single Blade reskin and yet, that's what we ended up with in the stack / rupture mechanic. I mean, what the hell? Why mention that and then push the set to PTS using those mechanics? Pretty obvious the set was being worked on in some form before any post asking for input. It's not like the burn / rupture thing was working all that great before, so not being able to rupture stacks would hardly matter in a revamp.
But honestly, a lot of the melee sets are reskins unfortunately(or are very close). LS as it is now as i've said is nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. You should hop on PTS and see. Its pretty good actually Now PA: I've yet to test..when I get a chance I will definately look into it as i've got a PA tank and definately need to know how this affects him. I enjoy him more than my might tank and bestial dps/tank
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Blocking does not shut off Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage.
Eye Beams' advantage 20/20 Fission is not applying Burn Through.
It's cosmetic, but the animation for Eye Beams still shows the single-target hit followed by the laser piercing through a couple seconds later...even though the attack now hits the full cylinder from the start.
NOT SURE IF INTENTIONAL:
Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage and Concussor Beam only repel up to 50' away.
Charging Luminescent Slash does not trigger Form of the Tiger.
Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage and Concussor Beam only repel up to 50' away.
I'm pretty sure it is intentional, at least I hope it is. A 100-yard repel would be pretty ridiculous.
Also:
The repel on concussor beam doesn't trigger wind reverberation reliably. I know, not a wind power, however it does state that "attempt to repel" is a criteria. Most wind powers with repel will yield energy even if the target is repel-immune. Concussor Beam (as well as a few other out-of-set powers with repel, like Quicksand) will only yield energy if the target is actually repelled. Not sure if Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage has the same problem, haven't tested it.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
But honestly, a lot of the melee sets are reskins unfortunately(or are very close). LS as it is now as i've said is nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. You should hop on PTS and see. Its pretty good actually
Now PA: I've yet to test..when I get a chance I will definately look into it as i've got a PA tank and definately need to know how this affects him. I enjoy him more than my might tank and bestial dps/tank
I've tested laser sword, parsed it and found the damage pathetic for a melee set. Sub 3k dps on a zero survival glass cannon optimized for damage.
Now THAT's something I can see being done before launch. Adjusting numbers is much less resource and time consuming than trying to basically remake the set, and as such is most likely being evaluated as we speak. I, myself, felt the damage could use a tad bit of a touch up, but again, sololing in the warzone was pretty quick last time I tested.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Yeah and have you seen my parse of using only in set powers for dps? unnacceptable, sub 3k in justice gear.
Fine.
This is a true class cannon build though, most other melee sets can be pushed higher with those. I was also a bit lucky on the crits on Plasma Cutter by the looks of it, it should have been 3% higher than Lightspeed Strike.
Bug: - DUC doesn't work with cauterize. - Higher ranked Lightspeed Strike is still named Lasersword
BUG :Is OVERDRIVE going to process All maintains now or still have about a dozen it doesn't
Ok just checked my wind/force maintain build on Pts, dex-ego-con. rec/end in talents and utility gear.
cost discount 362.
11 energy per 3 on live, 7 on pts.
still works fine.
Overdrive scaling is quite bad on PTS now. With 317 END and 131 REC I am getting 14 energy out of it, which is not nearly enough to run 3 toggles without having to use your energy builder all the time.
I really don't like this balancing by energy stuff, energy management is not a fun part of CO. It can be used to restrict your build a bit, but if you use the inset options I think energy should just be good without having to use your EB much or at all.
Bug: Wrist Bolter is locked out longer than other energy builders, after having used a PA toggle.
Suggestion: Allow active offense/defense to be used while while PA toggles are active, but make them deactivate all toggles.
I've never been a fan of heavy resource management in any game, so I may be a bit biased, but I really do think CO's take on energy management is among the worst I've seen.
This may be going beyond the scope of this thread, but when you start the game with a new character, your gameplay is pretty much "spam energy builder for several seconds, fire off a few blasts, a full maintain, or a combo, then repeat." Not very exciting. Then, you hit max level, load up on cost discount stuff, and you generally stop using the energy builder entirely. It's like a night and day difference between boring-**** gameplay vs interesting gameplay.
Energy builders, form energy returns, and other such things all kinda feel like gimmicky, hackish things added to make the energy management in this game less of a mess.
- - -
Anyhow, to get back on track:
Nerfing Overdrive on some principle of "we don't want people to take it instead of other EUs" isn't the answer and I do hope the devs reconsider doing this. If they want people to choose the more specialized EUs, they should instead try to make those EUs better. As in, more cross-framework friendly. Currently Ionic Reverb, Wind Reverb, Icy Embrace, Hunter's Instinct, Killer Instinct, Steadfast, Ego Reverb, and Supernatural Power are all hard-locked in such a way that they have practically no compatibility with anything outside the frameworks they interact with. Spirit Reverb, Telepathic Reverb, and Mephitic are slightly better, but still extremely limited in use. Conjuring, Wild Thing, and Thermal Reverb are really the only specialized EUs that have any sort of usefulness in a true cross-framework build. (The only real difference between Mephitic and Wild Thing is that there are a lot more bleed-appliers than poison-appliers)
So there you have it. Instead of gutting Overdrive (and afterward, MSA) into uselessness, lift the above-mentioned EUs up so that people using multiple framworks can actually get some use out of them.
Post edited by aesica on
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
Overdrive is feeling really bad. *Really* bad. I can barely keep up Chest Laser's energy with 200 REC and 260 Cost discount.
With 166 Rec & 64 Endurance (nearly the same if not less since Endurance's scaling is poor on live), my Overdrive right now is at 12 energy every 3 seconds, on PTS with just 200 rec, 5 energy every 3 seconds.
The Laser swords feel really good, I don't see what Particle Smash's purpose is anymore though, since you already have Laser Cutter for rupturing stacks. Noteworthy, it feels just like all other bleed trees (Single Sword and, with less utility than, Claws), spam the combo, get 5 stacks, rupture, repeat.
I don't understand the reason to use Luminiscent Slash yet. Is it just and only damage? Sure, you can snare but.. yeah... it's also a bit weird to have to charge a combo-esque power. Wouldn't mind having it as the old Laser sword (low plasma burn chance [well, 100% on the last use], high energy cost, slow to use, good damage) but right now I see no reason to pick it up.
Considering that there's little reason to want to refresh the plasma burn stacks now, why do you need to fully charge the Tether to refresh the stacks? I'm fairly certain the other clones of this power just need you to tap. I could be wrong since I don't usually pick them, but I'm almost certain. I don't see a problem with not needing to charge it, after all it has a pretty decent CD on it already.
Lastly, more powers need Burn through in the PA toggles.
I kinda feel like it'd be great to get away from spamming combos. Making it so combos are something you use now and then for some sort of function, rather than spamming constantly as part of a damage rotation, would feel a lot better gameplay-wise... and finger-wise.
For laser sword I'd love to see this sort of rotation:
spam full charges of an attack to build stacks use a full charge of another attack to rupture those stacks for X seconds your combo attack does crazy damage
The rupture effect could be made an advantage so that taking that attack doesn't automatically feel like it requires taking the combo attack as well.
Another idea for a less spammy combo rotation:
use full combo once next X attacks do X% more damage
^ encourages using fully charged attacks inbetween combo uses ( would make certain Brawler specs attractive again as well )
Here's another idea:
first off, combo attack doesn't stack the thing anymore some other power, preferably with full charges, stacks the thing each use of a combo attack ruptures a stack for huge extra damage
^ the combo attack is the payoff rather than the setup
^Yes to less tap spamming! Was caught up the the Kiga fight that would not end the other day. Probably tapped Dragon's Claws several thousand times. Had to start alternating fingers. Spent half of the fight thinking about how to switch my build to a maintain-based one, and where to acquire a small, single-button-sized weight.
I kinda feel like it'd be great to get away from spamming combos. Making it so combos are something you use now and then for some sort of function, rather than spamming constantly as part of a damage rotation, would feel a lot better gameplay-wise... and finger-wise.
For laser sword I'd love to see this sort of rotation:
spam full charges of an attack to build stacks use a full charge of another attack to rupture those stacks for X seconds your combo attack does crazy damage
The rupture effect could be made an advantage so that taking that attack doesn't automatically feel like it requires taking the combo attack as well.
Another idea for a less spammy combo rotation:
use full combo once next X attacks do X% more damage
^ encourages using fully charged attacks inbetween combo uses ( would make certain Brawler specs attractive again as well )
Here's another idea:
first off, combo attack doesn't stack the thing anymore some other power, preferably with full charges, stacks the thing each use of a combo attack ruptures a stack for huge extra damage
^ the combo attack is the payoff rather than the setup
I see what your getting at; very interesting ideas. My favorite is the second proposal you made however, as it would be a sort of one-and-done type deal. Use the combo once, get some damage boost for other attacks, then when that wears off repeat the combo.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
My only concern about moving the attack chain away from combos and to full charges is that full charge melee attacks leave you open to enemy mob KB and AOE spam, meaning either you get to suck it up, or never complete a full charge because you had to stop halfway to mash the Shift key and block.
-
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Yeah full charges are something for ranged characters, not melee.
Nah, I use full charges on melee powers all the time, it's actually often easier than for ranged because many full charge melees are only 1.5s, while full charged range tends to be 2-3s.
Yeah full charges are something for ranged characters, not melee.
Nah, I use full charges on melee powers all the time, it's actually often easier than for ranged because many full charge melees are only 1.5s, while full charged range tends to be 2-3s.
Let me rephrase that, for combo based weapon attacks it seems completely out of place. Something like might of course thrives on charge ups.
Sure, it would be weird for combo powers to have a charge time, but that seems irrelevant to the proposal at hand. Might is actually relatively bad at charges, because it's got some very slow moves, it's significantly harder to get off a 2.5s charge than a 1.5s charge.
Having a charge time is actually detrimental to combo powers becuase if you're knocked or held while charging you have to start the combo ALL OVER AGAIN.
I believe the proposal is to not use combo powers.
I kinda feel like it'd be great to get away from spamming combos. Making it so combos are something you use now and then for some sort of function, rather than spamming constantly as part of a damage rotation, would feel a lot better gameplay-wise... and finger-wise.
For laser sword I'd love to see this sort of rotation:
spam full charges of an attack to build stacks use a full charge of another attack to rupture those stacks for X seconds your combo attack does crazy damage
The rupture effect could be made an advantage so that taking that attack doesn't automatically feel like it requires taking the combo attack as well.
Another idea for a less spammy combo rotation:
use full combo once next X attacks do X% more damage
^ encourages using fully charged attacks inbetween combo uses ( would make certain Brawler specs attractive again as well )
Here's another idea:
first off, combo attack doesn't stack the thing anymore some other power, preferably with full charges, stacks the thing each use of a combo attack ruptures a stack for huge extra damage
^ the combo attack is the payoff rather than the setup
I agree with this. ANYTHING. That can add SOME variance to combat is always welcomed.
For laser sword I'd love to see this sort of rotation:
spam full charges of an attack to build stacks use a full charge of another attack to rupture those stacks for X seconds your combo attack does crazy damage
[...]
^ the combo attack is the payoff rather than the setup
While I see what you're getting at, that requires the player to take in 3 different powers, potentially just to deal proper single target damage. That's a pretty significant investment just for single target damage.
1) Without giving powers in other frameworks the ability to also build stacks of X, consume stacks of X to provide buff Y, or to gain a damage bonus from buff Y, then we're forcing players to pretty much commit to a single framework for their attacks rather than building the hero they want. Forget being a fire user who manifests a sword of energy, you're just a laser sword user who uses the same laser sword attacks as every other laser sword user.
2) If we do give powers in other frameworks similar functionality for the sake of cross-power compatibility, we're setting ourselves up for sameface gameplay, where every framework is just a different flavor of "build up X, consume X to gain buff Y, then spam ability Z while buff Y is active for mass damage."
3) Not everything needs to be based on rupture-the-stacks cheese. I invite you to go play wow and see all the interesting and creative ways powers interact with one another to create interesting ability rotations without using that tired, overused mechanic. It's okay if 1 or 2 of CO's sets use it, but the sooner we stop trying to forcefeed it to every set, the better off this game will be.
Make no mistake, it's not easy to add rotational depth to a game like CO, which is pretty much based on piecing together the powers you want to make the type of hero you want. Make the frameworks too intertwined and you run the risk of forcing frameworks into being "soft character classes," meaning "while you can take powers from outside the framework, you probably shouldn't." However, if you loosen the reins too much, you open the door to "333333333333333333333" gameplay which is also bad.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
i dont care about a "NEW" screwd power set, i care about fixing the destroyed power sets that are in the game... good job with power armor... with ALL theese nerfs (overdrive included) power armor in PTS is the WORST PvP power set, an average to bad power set for PvE and the hardest power set to play since energy managment is hard and you NEED to press 3 buttons to active 3 Atacks and do a regular atack (other sets only press 1 botton each time)... gadgets are bad too...you cant make a INT debuff power armor... cause you cant manage energy even with ALL end game gear and with lv9 cost mods... Game now is kill a ape, kill a lizard .. kill a doom lord.. again and again and again... Meele powers are really good for PvP and PvE.. and you have to press only one button at time.. i really dont care about score in cosmics... raise the cosmic resistence to power armor atacks if other sets are complaining.. but dont screw an already hard to play power set...
1 & 2 - um... these contradict each other. You're basically saying "having only one set be able to stack the thing is bad" and then saying "having multiple sets be able to stack the thing is bad". Everything is bad?
3 - you didn't even read the whole post, not all the suggestions are about rupturing. I invite you to read the whole post. I won't be playing WoW, already did that plenty.
Having tested the new lasersword build with an INT/CON/END setup geared towards tanking; It literally can solo Nightmare Demolishers in the warzone, with no energy issues at all. Granted, people can prolly do that now buut..and this is with heroics and TA secondaries, but still..
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Having tested the new lasersword build with an INT/CON/END setup geared towards tanking; It literally can solo Nightmare Demolishers in the warzone, with no energy issues at all. Granted, people can prolly do that now buut..and this is with heroics and TA secondaries, but still..
You can solo nightmare demolishers with your energy builder if you're really really patient, so this doesn't tell us a lot about the power of the set.
Having tested the new lasersword build with an INT/CON/END setup geared towards tanking; It literally can solo Nightmare Demolishers in the warzone, with no energy issues at all. Granted, people can prolly do that now buut..and this is with heroics and TA secondaries, but still..
You can solo nightmare demolishers with your energy builder if you're really really patient, so this doesn't tell us a lot about the power of the set.
Prefaced that already. It's not a bad set though
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Having tested the new lasersword build with an INT/CON/END setup geared towards tanking; It literally can solo Nightmare Demolishers in the warzone, with no energy issues at all. Granted, people can prolly do that now buut..and this is with heroics and TA secondaries, but still..
All of my 40s on live can solo nightmare demolishers in the warzone without energy issues, and some of them use a mix of merc gear, heroic gear, those crappy less-than-merc gear blues, and budget purples. Point being, that's a very poor way to gauge the current state of this powerset.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
I don't get in what way Combos were overperforming. Seriously you have to go through all the motions and the moment you got interrupted or the target moved away you did significantly less damage. Makes no real sense to me. Same to the changes in Overdrive. Seriously scaling of on End? Why? To make a before underused Stat suddenly important? One that was beforehand mostly used in AT's? Nobody with a Freeform even took it seriously. I think your time would be better spend with redoing the existing ATs into something better.
Please tell me that Overdrive users will get FREE RETCONS once the update hit live today
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Bug: Some small mistakes in the particle accelerator description The side affects have a +, should be a -, and it says only one Unity power is allowed to be active, that should be one Form power.
@lillysaturn You won't see the retcon unless/until you go to powerhouse and talk to a trainer, then hit "remove powers". If that isn't working, then there is a significant problem.
Re: Frost Speed animation
We tried both animations, and it looks a lot better with the arms back run. With the other run the tracer effects move all over the place, where with the arms backs they remain in a straight line.
We can consider making two versions.
Please do, a lot of us are getting turned of by the anime animation, and the list thing I want is to see my 250cm tall Gorilla ICE Shaman running like Naruto
Point case: Blazing and Light Speed
The following powers have had their base damage reduced slightly: Vipers Fangs, Scything Blade, Slash, Shred, Frenzy, Cleave.
Made some corrections to the cost of combo powers. Cost of combos should go down slightly as you progress. This affects the following powers: Vipers Fangs, Scything Blade, Shred, Frenzy, Cleave, Lash, Barbed Chain, Iron Chain, Laser Sword.
1.Scything Blade is NOT a combo, it's Single Blade's charged Cone AoE power
2.Why nerfing Frenzy when it was 100% AoE from the start and not being in the same tier with Shred?
Some diversity is good, however creating generic powers like Overdrive and having them perform nearly/just as well as specific energy unlocks creates a situation where players will mostly use the generic one as it's the easiest thing to build around.
Overdrive can still be used outside of PA, it's just not going to be as potent. Keep in mind energy unlocks aren't the only form of energy return, forms provide quite a lot as well and should be considered.
I disagree, and Overdrive was barely a game breaker, for me the True OP EU is still MSA, which even with the new EUs people are still sticking with it, stunborn I tell you
But let's not forget that this game is still a "BE THE HERO YOU WANT" game and there are people out there with theme builds who have no EU in common (like my Sonic DPS robot)
Most sets have their own dedicated energy unlock now, and we're open to new ideas for ones to fill niches.
That's would be lovely , but my suggestions would go against the thread which is currently focusing on PA stuff
Point Case: Sonic Damage
There is no sonic powerframe ingame, and as you mention before, Sonic damage is the least used damage in the frameworks
My Character Crescendo build got destroyed with the Global CD NERF, but then Power Chord and Hyper Voice (which power still use the place holder icon and has typo in description)
There are no active plans for Sonic powerframe and Until then I will suffer with a Broken character
All right, aside from Overdrive, what would you recommend for a Sonic build? It uses powers from Gadgeteering, Might, and Heavy Weapons. I am in agreement with the earlier posters: we would be better off with a larger selection of more generic Energy Unlocks than focusing on more SFX focused ones. The path you're taking frankly leads away from the spirit of the original Pen and Paper gaming system even further than we are today.
I'm sad to say, the only Energy Unlock which may provide possible synergy is Wind Reverbation which may get triggered by Hyper Voice's repel!
BUT this EU kinda sucks and i need to replace all my REC mods with END
Added Steam, In Need of Repair, Ooze and Sparking aura to the Lockbox store.
I really hope this is the Reconstruction Circuits aura
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Let's try again [quote="kaizerin;12759040"]Re: Frost Speed animation We tried both animations, and it looks a lot better with the arms back run. With the other run the tracer effects move all over the place, where with the arms backs they remain in a straight line.
We can consider making two versions. [/quote]
Please do, a lot of us are getting turned of by the anime animation, and the list thing I want is to see my 250cm tall Gorilla ICE Shaman running like Naruto
Point case: Blazing and Light Speed
[quote]The following powers have had their base damage reduced slightly: Vipers Fangs, [color="#ff0000"]Scything Blade[/color], Slash, Shred, Frenzy, Cleave.
Made some corrections to the cost of combo powers. Cost of combos should go down slightly as you progress. This affects the following powers: Vipers Fangs, [color="#ff0000"]Scything Blade[/color], Shred, Frenzy, Cleave, Lash, Barbed Chain, Iron Chain, Laser Sword.[/quote]
1.Scything Blade is NOT a combo, it's Single Blade's charged Cone AoE power 2.Why nerfing Frenzy when it was 100% AoE from the start and not being in the same tier with Shred? [quote="kaizerin;12759040"] [i]Some[/i] diversity is good, however creating generic powers like Overdrive and having them perform nearly/just as well as specific energy unlocks creates a situation where players will mostly use the generic one as it's the easiest thing to build around.
Overdrive can still be used outside of PA, it's just not going to be as potent. Keep in mind energy unlocks aren't the only form of energy return, forms provide quite a lot as well and should be considered.[/quote] I disagree, and Overdrive was barely a game breaker, for me the True OP EU is still MSA, which even with the new EUs people are still sticking with it, stunborn I tell you
[quote="kaizerin;12759040"] Most sets have their own dedicated energy unlock now, and we're open to new ideas for ones to fill niches.[/quote] That's would be lovely , but my suggestions would go against the thread which is currently focusing on PA stuff Point Case:[color="#ff9900"] Sonic Damage[/color] There is no sonic powerframe ingame, and as you mention before, Sonic damage is the least used damage in the frameworks
My Character Crescendo build got destroyed with the Global CD NERF, but then Power Chord and Hyper Voice (which power still use the place holder icon and has typo in description) There are no active plans for Sonic powerframe and Until then I will suffer with a Broken character
[quote="revanantmorituri;12759042"] All right, aside from Overdrive, what would you recommend for a Sonic build? It uses powers from Gadgeteering, Might, and Heavy Weapons. I am in agreement with the earlier posters: we would be better off with a larger selection of more generic Energy Unlocks than focusing on more SFX focused ones. The path you're taking frankly leads away from the spirit of the original Pen and Paper gaming system even further than we are today.[/quote]
Why thank you for remembering my Sonic DPS
I'm sad to say, the only Energy Unlock which may provide possible synergy is Wind Reverbation which may get triggered by Hyper Voice's repel! BUT this EU kinda sucks and i need to replace all my REC mods with END
[quote]Added Steam, [color="#4a86e8"]In Need of Repair[/color], Ooze and Sparking aura to the Lockbox store.[/quote]
I really hope this is the Reconstruction Circuits aura
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Comments
Laser Sword is a niche powerset, you don't see it much in the game, and the devs really could just leave it as it is and have almost no negative impact.
The Power Armour/EU changes are the ones that need a bit of calm reflection, not just policy driven "we're doing x" which will make a right mess of many people's builds and enjoyment of the game.
I know what you meant, however the set should have been mostly good-to-go by the time it ended up on PTS. And it probably is about what we're going to get once it gets pushed to live. There was no reason why Laser Sword needed to be effectively removed from the game instead of tweaked to be a high tier power that it mostly already was. There was also no reason why our dev couldn't have built around the high energy, high damage thing that the set had going for it.
All that talk about not wanting to just be a Single Blade reskin and yet, that's what we ended up with in the stack / rupture mechanic. I mean, what the hell? Why mention that and then push the set to PTS using those mechanics? Pretty obvious the set was being worked on in some form before any post asking for input. It's not like the burn / rupture thing was working all that great before, so not being able to rupture stacks would hardly matter in a revamp.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Now PA: I've yet to test..when I get a chance I will definately look into it as i've got a PA tank and definately need to know how this affects him. I enjoy him more than my might tank and bestial dps/tank
42 40s, LTSer.
Blocking does not shut off Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage.
Eye Beams' advantage 20/20 Fission is not applying Burn Through.
It's cosmetic, but the animation for Eye Beams still shows the single-target hit followed by the laser piercing through a couple seconds later...even though the attack now hits the full cylinder from the start.
NOT SURE IF INTENTIONAL:
Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage and Concussor Beam only repel up to 50' away.
Charging Luminescent Slash does not trigger Form of the Tiger.
Also:
The repel on concussor beam doesn't trigger wind reverberation reliably. I know, not a wind power, however it does state that "attempt to repel" is a criteria. Most wind powers with repel will yield energy even if the target is repel-immune. Concussor Beam (as well as a few other out-of-set powers with repel, like Quicksand) will only yield energy if the target is actually repelled. Not sure if Dual Wrist Rocket Barrage has the same problem, haven't tested it.
42 40s, LTSer.
This is a true class cannon build though, most other melee sets can be pushed higher with those. I was also a bit lucky on the crits on Plasma Cutter by the looks of it, it should have been 3% higher than Lightspeed Strike.
Bug:
- DUC doesn't work with cauterize.
- Higher ranked Lightspeed Strike is still named Lasersword
Ok just checked my wind/force maintain build on Pts, dex-ego-con. rec/end in talents and utility gear.
cost discount 362.
11 energy per 3 on live, 7 on pts.
still works fine.
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With 317 END and 131 REC I am getting 14 energy out of it, which is not nearly enough to run 3 toggles without having to use your energy builder all the time.
I really don't like this balancing by energy stuff, energy management is not a fun part of CO. It can be used to restrict your build a bit, but if you use the inset options I think energy should just be good without having to use your EB much or at all.
Bug:
Wrist Bolter is locked out longer than other energy builders, after having used a PA toggle.
Suggestion:
Allow active offense/defense to be used while while PA toggles are active, but make them deactivate all toggles.
This may be going beyond the scope of this thread, but when you start the game with a new character, your gameplay is pretty much "spam energy builder for several seconds, fire off a few blasts, a full maintain, or a combo, then repeat." Not very exciting. Then, you hit max level, load up on cost discount stuff, and you generally stop using the energy builder entirely. It's like a night and day difference between boring-**** gameplay vs interesting gameplay.
Energy builders, form energy returns, and other such things all kinda feel like gimmicky, hackish things added to make the energy management in this game less of a mess.
- - -
Anyhow, to get back on track:
Nerfing Overdrive on some principle of "we don't want people to take it instead of other EUs" isn't the answer and I do hope the devs reconsider doing this. If they want people to choose the more specialized EUs, they should instead try to make those EUs better. As in, more cross-framework friendly. Currently Ionic Reverb, Wind Reverb, Icy Embrace, Hunter's Instinct, Killer Instinct, Steadfast, Ego Reverb, and Supernatural Power are all hard-locked in such a way that they have practically no compatibility with anything outside the frameworks they interact with. Spirit Reverb, Telepathic Reverb, and Mephitic are slightly better, but still extremely limited in use. Conjuring, Wild Thing, and Thermal Reverb are really the only specialized EUs that have any sort of usefulness in a true cross-framework build. (The only real difference between Mephitic and Wild Thing is that there are a lot more bleed-appliers than poison-appliers)
So there you have it. Instead of gutting Overdrive (and afterward, MSA) into uselessness, lift the above-mentioned EUs up so that people using multiple framworks can actually get some use out of them.
With 166 Rec & 64 Endurance (nearly the same if not less since Endurance's scaling is poor on live), my Overdrive right now is at 12 energy every 3 seconds, on PTS with just 200 rec, 5 energy every 3 seconds.
The Laser swords feel really good, I don't see what Particle Smash's purpose is anymore though, since you already have Laser Cutter for rupturing stacks. Noteworthy, it feels just like all other bleed trees (Single Sword and, with less utility than, Claws), spam the combo, get 5 stacks, rupture, repeat.
I don't understand the reason to use Luminiscent Slash yet. Is it just and only damage? Sure, you can snare but.. yeah... it's also a bit weird to have to charge a combo-esque power. Wouldn't mind having it as the old Laser sword (low plasma burn chance [well, 100% on the last use], high energy cost, slow to use, good damage) but right now I see no reason to pick it up.
Considering that there's little reason to want to refresh the plasma burn stacks now, why do you need to fully charge the Tether to refresh the stacks? I'm fairly certain the other clones of this power just need you to tap. I could be wrong since I don't usually pick them, but I'm almost certain. I don't see a problem with not needing to charge it, after all it has a pretty decent CD on it already.
Lastly, more powers need Burn through in the PA toggles.
For laser sword I'd love to see this sort of rotation:
spam full charges of an attack to build stacks
use a full charge of another attack to rupture those stacks
for X seconds your combo attack does crazy damage
The rupture effect could be made an advantage so that taking that attack doesn't automatically feel like it requires taking the combo attack as well.
Another idea for a less spammy combo rotation:
use full combo once
next X attacks do X% more damage
^ encourages using fully charged attacks inbetween combo uses ( would make certain Brawler specs attractive again as well )
Here's another idea:
first off, combo attack doesn't stack the thing anymore
some other power, preferably with full charges, stacks the thing
each use of a combo attack ruptures a stack for huge extra damage
^ the combo attack is the payoff rather than the setup
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
*edit-needed more hyphens!!!*
42 40s, LTSer.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
1) Without giving powers in other frameworks the ability to also build stacks of X, consume stacks of X to provide buff Y, or to gain a damage bonus from buff Y, then we're forcing players to pretty much commit to a single framework for their attacks rather than building the hero they want. Forget being a fire user who manifests a sword of energy, you're just a laser sword user who uses the same laser sword attacks as every other laser sword user.
2) If we do give powers in other frameworks similar functionality for the sake of cross-power compatibility, we're setting ourselves up for sameface gameplay, where every framework is just a different flavor of "build up X, consume X to gain buff Y, then spam ability Z while buff Y is active for mass damage."
3) Not everything needs to be based on rupture-the-stacks cheese. I invite you to go play wow and see all the interesting and creative ways powers interact with one another to create interesting ability rotations without using that tired, overused mechanic. It's okay if 1 or 2 of CO's sets use it, but the sooner we stop trying to forcefeed it to every set, the better off this game will be.
Make no mistake, it's not easy to add rotational depth to a game like CO, which is pretty much based on piecing together the powers you want to make the type of hero you want. Make the frameworks too intertwined and you run the risk of forcing frameworks into being "soft character classes," meaning "while you can take powers from outside the framework, you probably shouldn't." However, if you loosen the reins too much, you open the door to "333333333333333333333" gameplay which is also bad.
good job with power armor... with ALL theese nerfs (overdrive included) power armor in PTS is the WORST PvP power set, an average to bad power set for PvE and the hardest power set to play since energy managment is hard and you NEED to press 3 buttons to active 3 Atacks and do a regular atack (other sets only press 1 botton each time)... gadgets are bad too...you cant make a INT debuff power armor... cause you cant manage energy even with ALL end game gear and with lv9 cost mods... Game now is kill a ape, kill a lizard .. kill a doom lord.. again and again and again...
Meele powers are really good for PvP and PvE.. and you have to press only one button at time.. i really dont care about score in cosmics... raise the cosmic resistence to power armor atacks if other sets are complaining.. but dont screw an already hard to play power set...
3 - you didn't even read the whole post, not all the suggestions are about rupturing. I invite you to read the whole post. I won't be playing WoW, already did that plenty.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
42 40s, LTSer.
Qauntum Stabilizer is already in PTS
A Little bird told me
Some small mistakes in the particle accelerator description
The side affects have a +, should be a -, and it says only one Unity power is allowed to be active, that should be one Form power.
You won't see the retcon unless/until you go to powerhouse and talk to a trainer, then hit "remove powers".
If that isn't working, then there is a significant problem.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Please do, a lot of us are getting turned of by the anime animation, and the list thing I want is to see my 250cm tall Gorilla ICE Shaman running like Naruto
Point case: Blazing and Light Speed
1.Scything Blade is NOT a combo, it's Single Blade's charged Cone AoE power
2.Why nerfing Frenzy when it was 100% AoE from the start and not being in the same tier with Shred? I disagree, and Overdrive was barely a game breaker, for me the True OP EU is still MSA, which even with the new EUs people are still sticking with it, stunborn I tell you
But let's not forget that this game is still a "BE THE HERO YOU WANT" game and there are people out there with theme builds who have no EU in common (like my Sonic DPS robot)
That's would be lovely , but my suggestions would go against the thread which is currently focusing on PA stuff
Point Case: Sonic Damage
There is no sonic powerframe ingame, and as you mention before, Sonic damage is the least used damage in the frameworks
My Character Crescendo build got destroyed with the Global CD NERF, but then Power Chord and Hyper Voice (which power still use the place holder icon and has typo in description)
There are no active plans for Sonic powerframe and Until then I will suffer with a Broken character
Why thank you for remembering my Crescendo Build comment
I'm sad to say, the only Energy Unlock which may provide possible synergy is Wind Reverbation which may get triggered by Hyper Voice's repel!
BUT this EU kinda sucks and i need to replace all my REC mods with END
I really hope this is the Reconstruction Circuits aura
[quote="kaizerin;12759040"]Re: Frost Speed animation
We tried both animations, and it looks a lot better with the arms back run. With the other run the tracer effects move all over the place, where with the arms backs they remain in a straight line.
We can consider making two versions.
[/quote]
Please do, a lot of us are getting turned of by the anime animation, and the list thing I want is to see my 250cm tall Gorilla ICE Shaman running like Naruto
Point case: Blazing and Light Speed
[quote]The following powers have had their base damage reduced slightly: Vipers Fangs, [color="#ff0000"]Scything Blade[/color], Slash, Shred, Frenzy, Cleave.
Made some corrections to the cost of combo powers. Cost of combos should go down slightly as you progress. This affects the following powers: Vipers Fangs, [color="#ff0000"]Scything Blade[/color], Shred, Frenzy, Cleave, Lash, Barbed Chain, Iron Chain, Laser Sword.[/quote]
1.Scything Blade is NOT a combo, it's Single Blade's charged Cone AoE power
2.Why nerfing Frenzy when it was 100% AoE from the start and not being in the same tier with Shred?
[quote="kaizerin;12759040"]
[i]Some[/i] diversity is good, however creating generic powers like Overdrive and having them perform nearly/just as well as specific energy unlocks creates a situation where players will mostly use the generic one as it's the easiest thing to build around.
Overdrive can still be used outside of PA, it's just not going to be as potent. Keep in mind energy unlocks aren't the only form of energy return, forms provide quite a lot as well and should be considered.[/quote]
I disagree, and Overdrive was barely a game breaker, for me the True OP EU is still MSA, which even with the new EUs people are still sticking with it, stunborn I tell you
But let's not forget that this game is still a "BE THE HERO YOU WANT" game and there are people out there with theme builds who have no EU in common (like my [url="http://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=16&n=Crescendo&d=15370000000X1B07000HI037D05160358007I05II03G6007B03J503EI047E03GD009I000ckr0nGQ42kl"]Sonic DPS robot[/url])
[quote="kaizerin;12759040"]
Most sets have their own dedicated energy unlock now, and we're open to new ideas for ones to fill niches.[/quote]
That's would be lovely , but my suggestions would go against the thread which is currently focusing on PA stuff
Point Case:[color="#ff9900"] Sonic Damage[/color]
There is no sonic powerframe ingame, and as you mention before, Sonic damage is the least used damage in the frameworks
My Character Crescendo build got destroyed with the Global CD NERF, but then Power Chord and Hyper Voice (which power still use the place holder icon and has typo in description)
There are no active plans for Sonic powerframe and Until then I will suffer with a Broken character
[quote="revanantmorituri;12759042"]
All right, aside from Overdrive, what would you recommend for a Sonic build? It uses powers from Gadgeteering, Might, and Heavy Weapons. I am in agreement with the earlier posters: we would be better off with a larger selection of more generic Energy Unlocks than focusing on more SFX focused ones. The path you're taking frankly leads away from the spirit of the original Pen and Paper gaming system even further than we are today.[/quote]
Why thank you for remembering my Sonic DPS
I'm sad to say, the only Energy Unlock which may provide possible synergy is Wind Reverbation which may get triggered by Hyper Voice's repel!
BUT this EU kinda sucks and i need to replace all my REC mods with END
[quote]Added Steam, [color="#4a86e8"]In Need of Repair[/color], Ooze and Sparking aura to the Lockbox store.[/quote]
I really hope this is the Reconstruction Circuits aura