Forms, btw, aren't much use as an EU; during the first maintain of Gatling Gun, or similar, with Concentration, you'll get the bonus for adding eight stacks, and then never get anything else until they drop away and you add new ones (a process which which most people actively try and avoid during a fight, due to the accompanying drop in damage).
That's.... not true. You get energy every time a stack is added or refreshed. I have builds that are quite dependent on that being true, so I know it is.
Unless there's some specific bug with Concentration and certain maintains, this isn't true; a form refresh will also generate energy
Happy to admit it if so, but if those stack refreshes are giving energy it's hopelessly inadequate for most sets, and especially for those ones (Munitions) which were made Energy thirsty during less recent "balancing".
Huh, I have Overdrive on a few non-PA toons for which it is the most appropriate EU. I'm kind of more worried that Kaiserin is going to destroy the usefulness of MSA to non-Gadgeterring toons. I'm sure most of us use MSA as the default on a great number of our toons, and if she follows though on what she is saying that's going to be a much BIGGER problem than this change to Overdrive.
Thank you Mira! REALLY appreciate it
I'm loving Need of Repair and Steam auras, they are asking me to use them in my Steampunk build, Sparks Aura for my robot
Meltdown has potential
Loving Particle Accelerator's animation, really stands out from other toggles
Laser Deflection you outright reflect the bullets like a Ninja
If Laser Deflection could get turned into sort of a parry type power where it reflects back damage periodically, that'd be greaaaat.
Agreed! It would make sense for theme as well
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
creating generic powers like Overdrive and having them perform nearly/just as well as specific energy unlocks creates a situation where players will mostly use the generic one as it's the easiest thing to build around.
That's actually not true at all, as it depends entirely on the player's chosen build. If I exclusively use Sorcery for my attacks, Conjuring is going to be much easier (and more effective!) to use for energy returns than overdrive. Here's how various "pure" sets (all same framework, using specific energy unlocks) stack up to utilizing overdrive.
Overdrive
At least half-maintain a power 3 times.
Use energy builder or other energy-generation mechanic as needed until it's fully ramped up.
Maintain near-constant use of these powers to avoid Overdrive stacks from dropping off.
You are limited to maintains if you want to keep getting energy from this power.
Conjuring
Press Hex of Suffering on cooldown.
Thermal Reverberation
Use one of the many 100% CF-apply abilities as needed.
Ionic Reverberation
Just use lightning powers. Lightning Storm and Ball Lightning makes their own Ions and interacts with them. Lightning Arc doesn't but if you're using it, you're probably also using something to apply Ions for the damage bonus.
Wild Thing and Mephitic
Just use either poison or bleed powers. You can't really explore Infernal or Bestial without tripping over poison or bleed-based abilities.
Supernatural Power
One of the easiest of all to use if all you want are Bestial or Infernal powers. Just press Bestial or Infernal buttons.
Steadfast
All of MA encourages the use of Dex. Dex boosts the critical hit rate. Literally just use MA powers, it doesn't even matter which ones.
I could keep going, but it's the same story with every powerset's specialized energy unlock. As long as you only stick to that set, they're ALL easier to use properly and more effective than Overdrive because they give the full amount without requiring a ramp-up. And generally, they give more per second than a fully ramped-up Overdrive. I actually can't think of any situation where Overdrive is preferred to a set's native energy unlock if all a player is using are powers native to that set. The exception might be Gadgeteering and Pulse Beam Rifle, but that's only because Gadgeteering kind of sucks at using its own energy unlock properly.
Overdrive can still be used outside of PA, it's just not going to be as potent. Keep in mind energy unlocks aren't the only form of energy return, forms provide quite a lot as well and should be considered.
Of course, but most people factor in both the energy gains from an energy unlock as well as that from a form. To leave one out is to gimp your character's potential.
Most sets have their own dedicated energy unlock now, and we're open to new ideas for ones to fill niches.
The following still need to be looked at:
Might doesn't have an energy unlock.
Earth doesn't have an energy unlock.
Heavy Weapons doesn't have a native unlock, although it gets supported by Clinging Flames so this is probably fine.
Telepathic Reverberation: The CC/Disorient requirement is fine, but the fact that it's limited to Telepathy powers for everything means cross-framework powers can't be used with it. Elbow Slam's disorient won't work. Neither will hitting an enemy with a non-Telepathy power after you've CC'd/disoriented it with a Telepathy power.
Ego Reverberation: Crappy because everything hinges on Ego Leech, which is only available via Telekinetic powers. It at least could greatly benefit from an "over 6 seconds" mechanic.
Most of Gadgeteering's powers don't take proper advantage of its own energy unlock. There should be more 3 sec cooldown abilities here.
Force lacks its own energy unlock.
Celestial lacks its own energy unlock.
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Huh, I have Overdrive on a few non-PA toons for which it is the most appropriate EU. I'm kind of more worried that Kaiserin is going to destroy the usefulness of MSA to non-Gadgeterring toons. I'm sure most of us use MSA as the default on a great number of our toons, and if she follows though on what she is saying that's going to be a much BIGGER problem than this change to Overdrive.
I agree. If anything, this big scare about Overdrive should be a clear indication that the specialized EUs are too narrow in focus. People don't use Overdrive (or MSA) because they give absurd amounts of energy compared to specialized EUs because they don't. They use them because the specialized ones won't work with what they want.
If CO is really meant to be a game free of character class restrictions, the narrow-focus, specialized EUs need to be loosened up a bit.
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Plasma Cutter use the exact same animation with HW Skewer which also roots
Based on a few of the more recent changes, I feel safe in saying that it's not related to animation, but rather, it's a flag they're able to set or unset:
Ricochet Throw used to be chargeable on the move. Now it isn't.
The original Invocation of Storm Calling could be maintained while moving. Now neither IoSC or the lightning version, Storm Summoner, allow the user to maintain while moving.
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Okay, looking at these energy unlocks (all tests done with acrobatics active, no other stats): Concentration at 5 Ego gives 10 energy/4s. Form of the X does the same at 5 Dex. Concentration at 85 ego gives 18 energy/4s, or +2 energy/sec. Form of the X does the same at 85 Dex. Overdrive at 5 End gives 3.8 energy/3s per stack, or 3.8 energy/sec max. Overdrive at 85 End gives 6.1 energy/3s per stack, or 6.1 energy/sec max, or +2.4 energy/sec (note: I had acrobatics active) Unified Theory at 5 End grants 10 energy/3s. Unified Theory at 85 End grants 10 energy/3s (apparently scaling is broken) Unified Theory at 85 Rec grants 18 energy/3s (based on energy strength, we'd expect it to go up to 14, so its scaling is probably bugged), or +2.67 energy/3s.
Given that Ego and Dex also directly contribute damage and have other desirable effects, neither of these energy unlocks is really worth statting for even under ideal conditions.
In terms of play style, I have to wonder if there are play styles that are practical to implement that aren't either build/rupture or debuff/spam. The classic laser sword setup did have a bit more complexity, but it was also largely unusable. I'm somewhat dubious about plasma burn in general, the usual pattern for laser sword type attacks is that they either just do straight up damage, or you hold them on target and after a moment they either burn through or make the target explode (light coming out of eyes and mouth, etc, type of stuff). Mechanically speaking that sounds like a maintain, though I'm not sure it's practical to animate.
I was thinking LS could use a more step-based approach to its stacking mechanic, and that's distinct from stacking a DoT to its max value each time but instead on using proc/chance %ages. Each step could result in a diff outcome when ruptured.
To elaborate:
Change PBurn to a 3-stack DoT max, and re-balance its dps accordingly. Allow very few powers to grant >1 PB stacks outside of the basic combo. LS combo now has a 50% (100% w/ Focus) chance to apply PB on the last hit only. This means w/ Focus you can guarantee no more or less than 1 stack of PB per combo, so its dependable as long as you are keeping track of the # combos you've done (so you don't have to watch the DoT bar, if ya don't want to).
Make Cauterizing each stack of PB do diff things. 1st stack has to be more general/utility cause it can be granted by many other powers and is easier to access:
- Rupturing 0x PB = Plasma Cutter does its normal charged dmg w/ no extra effect. - Rupturing 1x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + also does a very minor amount of extra damage around you and debuffs enemy dmg for a short time (and/or other utility, like AoE healing around you). - Rupturing 2x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + grants you a considerable boost to Particle dmg done for a short while. - Rupturing 3x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + a large amount of extra dmg on the target (ie. normal Rupture effect).
This makes LS's rotation dependent on keeping track of how many combos (and thus PB stacks) are used, so from a sustained dps standpoint you have to juggle 2x PB Rupture for the buff and 3x PB Rupture for raw dmg. Burst dps can go straight to 3x PB Rupture, and you could use 1x PB Rupture for various utility (debuff and/or heal melee units around you- to help out in fights) at the cost of a bit of ur own dps. I only broke it down to 3 DoT stacks here, but ofc you can go w/ even more levels, though it'd prob get too convoluted for one set.
The other upside is that this makes Laser Sword feel more deliberate/robotic and less random/proc based like other sets, and that seems more fitting for a Technology set, yea?
lets see in my EGO, con end power armor character: - Force Cascade 100 ft , 889 - 3793 huge damage + a amazing knock capacity + containment blast (Option) - Chest Beam that is not a SLOT power anymore (PTS) poor 50 ft, only 778 - 2766 damage and - 12% resistance (that is ok).... WHY this was nerfed??? KEEP CHEST BEASM AS IT WAS!!!!! Chest beam IS NOT OVERPOWERED!!!!!!! Even tier 1 rimefire burst is better than this now.... good work devs, you really screwed power armors now i am rage quiting this game...
Rimefire has a cooldown [which can be mitigated via a fiddly setup] Force cascade has a high energy cost Chest beam has neaither of these factors so the options were, reduce the damage on chestbeam or give chestbeam a CD or make it require intense setup or give it a large energy cost, as you can see, they went with reduce the damage.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
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Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
If Laser Deflection could get turned into sort of a parry type power where it reflects back damage periodically, that'd be greaaaat.
Quoted for truth.
Also would you consider adding the Rush Buff to Luminescent Slash, as that power currently feels like the Laser Sword equivalent of a Dragon attack from the Martial Arts frameworks...
Also would you consider adding the Rush Buff to Luminescent Slash, as that power currently feels like the Laser Sword equivalent of a Dragon attack from the Martial Arts frameworks...
I was thinking the same thing. I don't know how the balancing would work out, but the power seems to not have a purpose in the set and seems to be in the spot where Rush powers would usually be.
It could also literally just give the rush buff as the laser sword form gives stacks of focus. Atm I see people taking a MA power just to capitalize on this already.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Can it please be adressed that without Overdrive and the Toggle system, the non-toggle powers (Chest Beam, Tactical Missiles, Power Gauntlet, Rocket Punch, Energy Wave e.t.c) Do NOT have an Energy Unlock any more?
PA now needs a Second Energy Unlock, this revamp is going to spawn PA builds that use those powers in the same way other Range powerframes work
Perhaps an EU which gives you energy every time you fully charge one of those PA powers
Also: Reconstruction Circuits which is a Chest slot toggle
Those powers will no longer be able to use their OWN Powerframe themed heal anymore and thats pretty bad! How is this going to be adressed? It's breaking the whole PA theme
In conclusion, those powers are now denied by their own framework EU and Self Heal
k if you reduce damage, but you you cant use then anymore with hand and shoulder slots... nobody will use chest beam anymore...
Sounds like you won't try to pause your toggles for 2-3 seconds to cycle a charge up attack then toggle your PA attacks again, rinse and repeat.
Yeah because it's bad
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Can someone explain to me in detail how these changes are going to be oh so devastating, I'm trying to understand, your not going to rely on a single EU or spamming certain powers anymore?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Luminescent Slash doesn't play nicely with the current setup. It doesn't proc anything, but would need to to keep up with the high cost. At least for the high damage HW/bestial attacks, they proc enrage (and unstoppable) to help with that. And both HW and bestial have better performing and/or easier to use EUs.
Burn through for finishing Lightspeed strike isn't competitive with applying it though chest beam, and unlike shredded in bestial/MA there is no quick way to refresh burn through in the energy weapons set.
Due to the clunky set and procs, by far the best dps I got is switching to bestial support stuff. If you add a 1.44 multiplier for r3 to Luminescent Slash, that would end up with 6.3k dps. (This was done with the same build as I used for these tests)
Bug: Luminescent Slash still doesn't scale up with ranks
Have you ever even -PLAYED- a power armor character?
YesPower Armour is a Technology Framework set that has Exponential Energy costs for each toggle slot that's activated, most of which have targeting arcs, leaving this arc would detoggle the powers, you cannot use other powers or that's the way it was intended while toggling PA slots except with other power Armour slots, am I missing anything else here? cause I'm still not getting an explanation.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Wasn't burn through added to several powers though? Why would you bother using chest beam in a multi-maintain toggle based PA build now? I mean, before the only reason to use it as a full charge was because it could be fully charged at the same time another chest maintain toggle was going off for the absurd amount of extra damage in addition to the debuff. That was never intentional, just like being able to use maintains that weren't toggles with toggles was never intentional.
I mean, i never even bothered exploiting it with another chest slot running like most builds, i had always just tapped it for the debuff between toggling maintains on and off. And even then I was still doing disgustingly high dps with heroic gear and R5s.
There's no denying that the uh, "charged" side of PA is now basically pointless. But the toggle side has been made a lot easier to just throw a set of slots together and go with. No more worrying about toggle timing or anything, just switch on, wait, then switch on again when they go off. letting them all debuff and do their damage through the maintain while you watch cat videos on your second monitor.
Some things to consider:
Our UI cannot separate your debuffs from others (like placing them on their own line), making any sort of situation where other players are applying Plasma Burn not so player friendly. Keeping the effect to something that's consistent is a lot more multi player friendly as cap stacks are easier to gauge. Getting a icon to appear on your character per stack isn't really doable either.
There are other powers that apply Plasma Burn, and that needs to be taken into consideration when throwing out suggestions as we have finite time to work on these revisions.
Our UI cannot separate your debuffs from others (like placing them on their own line), making any sort of situation where other players are applying Plasma Burn not so player friendly. Keeping the effect to something that's consistent is a lot more multi player friendly as cap stacks are easier to gauge. Getting a icon to appear on your character per stack isn't really doable either.
There are other powers that apply Plasma Burn, and that needs to be taken into consideration when throwing out suggestions as we have finite time to work on these revisions.
Eh, I figured there were both mechanical and time limitations to being able to implement a system like I suggested, but I wanted to brainstorm it anyways just to explore other concepts. Bummer that it can't even be done via a self-buff system, but its good to know of the limitations.
In here is what I am getting with luminescent strike with energy weapons (still chest beam for burn through).
A few things to consider. - Even with an energy circle I had to use lightwave slash after every 3 luminescent slashes, else energy would not work out. So that ended up in a rotation of: chest beam > lightwave slash > luminescent slash x 3 > lightwave slash > luminescent slash x 3. - Lightwave slash does a knockdown only on full charge, while eviscerate does everything it needs to do on a tap, that is mostly why the dps on luminescent slash is lower. - Unlike bleeds, plasma burn does not scale with melee damage bonus.
Of course the luminescent slash dps has to be miltuplied by 1.44 again, so that would be a total dps of 5.3k. If luminescent slash would also get a 30% base damage bonus on the inset status proc like massacre/annihilate, it would do 5.6k dps. That is already starting to come close to what other melee sets can do. If the knockdown adv on luminescent slash would also refresh burn through on a full charge, I think things would be quite competitive (though still slightly low... but not 100% sure my timing on the luminescent slash is optimal yet).
It doesn't seem like Luminescent Slash is being balanced around spamming it atm. It would be nice if it was more compelling for the slot- either by making its utility much more than a Snare, or by making it quite less costly so it can be the higher tier 'replacement' for the old LS combo, if you want an alternative to the stack/rupture style. I'm not sure what direction the devs are going w/ it atm.
The old LS combo had a base energy consumption of about 48 eps (w/o PA adv), new LS combo is ~35 eps, and Lum Slash is ~57 eps atm. For more context, old LS base dps was ~612, Lum Slash dps is ~521-530 atm (keep in mind that activation delay hurts instants like the LS combo more, and now there's more routes to debuff for it).
When people asked me for my laser sword build, I never gave it to them. I knew the rework would come and figured that the set would either be a Single Blade reskin or completely hosed up. Seeing both of those things happening is basically worse than my worse case, cynical prediction.
This set has been in discussion for the better part of the year. There were no shortage of ideas and we still got a cop-out Single Blade reskin. Except that Single Blades is better across the board. What a joke.
I suppose there's still time for the set to not be full of sadness when dumped on live, but I don't have any faith in that happening.
I don't think a single person would be upset if the laz0r sw0rdz powers didn't come out if it meant they could have more revisions. The set was a bit of a single blade clone, but the stats were so different it felt like you had to make a very different build. Atm, it feels like a reskin of single blade.
I think we'd all prefer a larger difference between laser swords and single blade, even if the Ultimate came out without the powerset being revised.
Ooze Aura recoloring makes the Aura dissappear. Steam Aura....Needs more Steam. I'm not seeing any effects really. And make Another Steam Aura without "auras interact with movement" part. More "spouts"(hope this makes more sense now and is more Steampunkish, what ever that may be...) And Ooze Aura could use black Oil option also...
Post edited by flyingfinn on
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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I don't think a single person would be upset if the laz0r sw0rdz powers didn't come out if it meant they could have more revisions. The set was a bit of a single blade clone, but the stats were so different it felt like you had to make a very different build. Atm, it feels like a reskin of single blade.
I think we'd all prefer a larger difference between laser swords and single blade, even if the Ultimate came out without the powerset being revised.
Pretty much this.
I'd rather it took 6 months or more to finish and came out right than have it rushed out the door BECAUSE DEADLINES DEMAND IT only to get a lesser product.
Take your time on the laser sword revamp, devs. Many have been waiting for years already. A few more months won't kill anyone.
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Ooze Aura recoloring makes the Aura dissappear. Steam Aura....Needs more Steam. I'm not seeing any effects really. AND remove the "auras interact with movement" part.
Steam comes out when you move. It wouldn't make as much sense to constantly be spouting steam. It is supposed to be like... steampunk. Steam happens when things get locomotion.
Makes much more sense? In a world of superheroes?? Let's not bring 'sense' in visual effects. So steam engines don't sprout steam out when not in motion? Steam doesn't create pressure? Riiight. Steampunk. Ok, you know that the engines, pistons, whatevas move inside the steampunk robots/automatons even when they are not moving. Like, creating steam. <===Sense. And yes, it comes out on movement. Can't really see it. I'd take a picture, but it doesn't really show in one...
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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Makes much more sense? In a world of superheroes?? Let's not bring 'sense' in visual effects. So steam engines don't sprout steam out when not in motion? Steam doesn't create pressure? Riiight. Steampunk. Ok, you know that the engines, pistons, whatevas move inside the steampunk robots/automatons even when they are not moving. Like, creating steam. <===Sense. And yes, it comes out on movement. Can't really see it. I'd take a picture, but it doesn't really show in one...</p>
You can't just say, "trying to make sense is invalid because superheroes and those don't make sense.". Regardless, that isn't even what I was trying to say.
The point I was trying to convey was the design idea is to have an aura that spouts steam. If it was always shooting steam, it would never have these "spouts" of steam. Adding the movement mechanic to it makes it have different rates of spouting and adds to that sense of steam coming out from stress. I imagine if this was a zen store pack, they would include a "constant" stream of steam aura as well that wasn't so intermittent.
Please do not wait six months to release this revision. Not all advantages have been added in,and as been said by kaizerin,a lot is placeholders. Be patient, itll get fixed. Plus, Even if it were redacted 6 mo is unacceptably long.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Telepathy did get nerfed pretty badly..but LS currently doesnt need an extensed treatment. All it needa s the placeholder adv added and damage adjusted to more xomparitive levels and done. Some say its a clone; So? Bestial and Single blade are essentially clones in mechanics.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Please do not wait six months to release this revision. Not all advantages have been added in,and as been said by kaizerin,a lot is placeholders. Be patient, itll get fixed. Plus, Even if it were redacted 6 mo is unacceptably long.
The thing is that the direction that the powerset is going makes it so similar to single blade it feels like a re-skin. Even with more advs, unless they were really game changing or "must have" it wouldn't be so much of a difference to feel like it isn't single blade with different animations and vfx.
So? Bestial and Single blade are essentially clones in mechanics.
The similarity between those is basically the stacking and rupturing of bleeds. With laser sword, the similarities with SB are much closer.
To clarify, I think the flow and look of Laser Swords is much better, looks cooler, is more thematic. However, gameplay wise it is so close to Single Blade that it is like choosing between Slash and Reaper's Caress. Point being, the set is better than before, but even if it means taking more time, most of us rather wait and see powersets be more diverse rather than wonder "what could have been".
-Single Blade has Focus + Bleed. High tier powers can rupture for dmg or use Focus to gain energy (all the while just getting energy for crits thanks to the in-set EB). -TK Swords has Ego Leech + Ego Blade Annihilation to "rupture" Leech and recover stacks (thereby proccing the set EB).
Having a specific EB for Plasma Burn (LSwords) seems ok, we need a different implementation of Plasma Burn.
Philosophy: -Make Laser Sword a set that is not based on Rupture or Crits. More on high energy/high damage, DOTs, and defense.
Implementation: -Make Plasma Burn gain natively energy over time (x Energy / 3 s for 9 s, scales off END or REC) when a stack expires (max 3 stacks of PB). -Make a Tier3 single target attack that on a full charge deals more damage the more stacks of PB are on the target. Does not apply PB. -Make a Tier3 single target combo attack that when completed gives a meaningful defense bonus. Can proc PB with an advantage.
Would this be feasible?
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Steam Aura....Needs more Steam. I'm not seeing any effects really.
And make Another Steam Aura without "auras interact with movement" part. More "spouts"(hope this makes more sense now and is more Steampunkish, what ever that may be...)
I would like another steam aura that is constantly on too.
And yeah, the current one needs more of an effect.
I can understand wanting a difference, and who knows? Once this is all set and done it may be just that. But if its on PTS for testing, it must be in a place the devs feel comfy with, and wanting them to waste resources to take 6 mo for ONE set is a waste, no matter how many people may think thats a good idea. Those resources could have gone to content, and as such, be better used.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Taking six months to fix up Laser Swords is insane. Having Laser Swords be put on PTS the way it is after a year of ideas and discussion from players is also insane.
Stuff like this is why I rarely bother making serious suggestions. There are some thing I would love to see with laser swords, but I doubt they'll ever happen. If everyone else's suggestions were ignored in favor of an inferior Single Blade reskin, why would mine be looked at?
Laser sword, to me, does pretty good damage. Went to the warzone with the new LS revamp and had no problem(besides having to constantoy block thanks to KB/Hold spam) taking down mobs, in both tank and hybrid role.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Laser sword, to me, does pretty good damage. Went to the warzone with the new LS revamp and had no problem(besides having to constantoy block thanks to KB/Hold spam) taking down mobs, in both tank and hybrid role.
That's not too bad then. But they should spend the proper time on it. No, not six months, but this shouldn't be released anytime soon.
PA on the other hand has serious issues. They should spend more time on that.
Okay, as the person who may have unintentionally started this panic, I need to clear this up.
Nobody's saying this will take six months. What I said (or meant to say) was that I'd rather they took their time on this to get it right than push out the crappy single blade reskin currently sitting on PTS. "Six months" was just a number I threw out there. I don't speak for everyone (obviously) but I personally would be fine waiting that long if it meant getting laser swords as a new, fun framework that offered interesting and unique gameplay.
I want them to take their time and get this right, not rush and copypaste.
So relax guys, it's not going to take six months. Nowhere (that I'm aware of) did they ever say that.
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Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Happy to admit it if so, but if those stack refreshes are giving energy it's hopelessly inadequate for most sets, and especially for those ones (Munitions) which were made Energy thirsty during less recent "balancing".
In Need of Repair Aura
Steam Aura
Sparks Aura
EDIT:
While I'm at it, here are the powers:
Particle Wave
Meltdown Ultimate
Lightspeed Strike (Formerly "Laser Sword")
Particle Accelerator
Laser Deflection (Block Replacer)
Thank you Mira! REALLY appreciate it
I'm loving Need of Repair and Steam auras, they are asking me to use them in my Steampunk build, Sparks Aura for my robot
Meltdown has potential
Loving Particle Accelerator's animation, really stands out from other toggles
Laser Deflection you outright reflect the bullets like a Ninja Agreed! It would make sense for theme as well
Overdrive
Conjuring
Thermal Reverberation
Ionic Reverberation
Wild Thing and Mephitic
Supernatural Power
Steadfast
- All of MA encourages the use of Dex. Dex boosts the critical hit rate. Literally just use MA powers, it doesn't even matter which ones.
I could keep going, but it's the same story with every powerset's specialized energy unlock. As long as you only stick to that set, they're ALL easier to use properly and more effective than Overdrive because they give the full amount without requiring a ramp-up. And generally, they give more per second than a fully ramped-up Overdrive. I actually can't think of any situation where Overdrive is preferred to a set's native energy unlock if all a player is using are powers native to that set. The exception might be Gadgeteering and Pulse Beam Rifle, but that's only because Gadgeteering kind of sucks at using its own energy unlock properly. Of course, but most people factor in both the energy gains from an energy unlock as well as that from a form. To leave one out is to gimp your character's potential. The following still need to be looked at:If CO is really meant to be a game free of character class restrictions, the narrow-focus, specialized EUs need to be loosened up a bit.
Concentration at 5 Ego gives 10 energy/4s. Form of the X does the same at 5 Dex.
Concentration at 85 ego gives 18 energy/4s, or +2 energy/sec. Form of the X does the same at 85 Dex.
Overdrive at 5 End gives 3.8 energy/3s per stack, or 3.8 energy/sec max.
Overdrive at 85 End gives 6.1 energy/3s per stack, or 6.1 energy/sec max, or +2.4 energy/sec (note: I had acrobatics active)
Unified Theory at 5 End grants 10 energy/3s.
Unified Theory at 85 End grants 10 energy/3s (apparently scaling is broken)
Unified Theory at 85 Rec grants 18 energy/3s (based on energy strength, we'd expect it to go up to 14, so its scaling is probably bugged), or +2.67 energy/3s.
Given that Ego and Dex also directly contribute damage and have other desirable effects, neither of these energy unlocks is really worth statting for even under ideal conditions.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
To elaborate:
Change PBurn to a 3-stack DoT max, and re-balance its dps accordingly. Allow very few powers to grant >1 PB stacks outside of the basic combo. LS combo now has a 50% (100% w/ Focus) chance to apply PB on the last hit only. This means w/ Focus you can guarantee no more or less than 1 stack of PB per combo, so its dependable as long as you are keeping track of the # combos you've done (so you don't have to watch the DoT bar, if ya don't want to).
Make Cauterizing each stack of PB do diff things. 1st stack has to be more general/utility cause it can be granted by many other powers and is easier to access:
- Rupturing 0x PB = Plasma Cutter does its normal charged dmg w/ no extra effect.
- Rupturing 1x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + also does a very minor amount of extra damage around you and debuffs enemy dmg for a short time (and/or other utility, like AoE healing around you).
- Rupturing 2x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + grants you a considerable boost to Particle dmg done for a short while.
- Rupturing 3x PB = Plasma Cutter deals dmg + a large amount of extra dmg on the target (ie. normal Rupture effect).
This makes LS's rotation dependent on keeping track of how many combos (and thus PB stacks) are used, so from a sustained dps standpoint you have to juggle 2x PB Rupture for the buff and 3x PB Rupture for raw dmg. Burst dps can go straight to 3x PB Rupture, and you could use 1x PB Rupture for various utility (debuff and/or heal melee units around you- to help out in fights) at the cost of a bit of ur own dps. I only broke it down to 3 DoT stacks here, but ofc you can go w/ even more levels, though it'd prob get too convoluted for one set.
The other upside is that this makes Laser Sword feel more deliberate/robotic and less random/proc based like other sets, and that seems more fitting for a Technology set, yea?
edit: I think Kaiz meant to type Reaper's Caress. Though I hope Scything Blade is also being updated like Lightwave Slash is.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Force cascade has a high energy cost
Chest beam has neaither of these factors
so the options were, reduce the damage on chestbeam or give chestbeam a CD or make it require intense setup or give it a large energy cost, as you can see, they went with reduce the damage.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Also would you consider adding the Rush Buff to Luminescent Slash, as that power currently feels like the Laser Sword equivalent of a Dragon attack from the Martial Arts frameworks...
It could also literally just give the rush buff as the laser sword form gives stacks of focus. Atm I see people taking a MA power just to capitalize on this already.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
PA now needs a Second Energy Unlock, this revamp is going to spawn PA builds that use those powers in the same way other Range powerframes work
Perhaps an EU which gives you energy every time you fully charge one of those PA powers
Also: Reconstruction Circuits which is a Chest slot toggle
Those powers will no longer be able to use their OWN Powerframe themed heal anymore and thats pretty bad! How is this going to be adressed? It's breaking the whole PA theme
In conclusion, those powers are now denied by their own framework EU and Self Heal Yeah because it's bad
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
It doesn't proc anything, but would need to to keep up with the high cost.
At least for the high damage HW/bestial attacks, they proc enrage (and unstoppable) to help with that.
And both HW and bestial have better performing and/or easier to use EUs.
Burn through for finishing Lightspeed strike isn't competitive with applying it though chest beam, and unlike shredded in bestial/MA there is no quick way to refresh burn through in the energy weapons set.
Due to the clunky set and procs, by far the best dps I got is switching to bestial support stuff.
If you add a 1.44 multiplier for r3 to Luminescent Slash, that would end up with 6.3k dps.
(This was done with the same build as I used for these tests)
Bug:
Luminescent Slash still doesn't scale up with ranks
Yes Power Armour is a Technology Framework set that has Exponential Energy costs for each toggle slot that's activated, most of which have targeting arcs, leaving this arc would detoggle the powers, you cannot use other powers or that's the way it was intended while toggling PA slots except with other power Armour slots, am I missing anything else here? cause I'm still not getting an explanation.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I mean, i never even bothered exploiting it with another chest slot running like most builds, i had always just tapped it for the debuff between toggling maintains on and off. And even then I was still doing disgustingly high dps with heroic gear and R5s.
There's no denying that the uh, "charged" side of PA is now basically pointless. But the toggle side has been made a lot easier to just throw a set of slots together and go with. No more worrying about toggle timing or anything, just switch on, wait, then switch on again when they go off. letting them all debuff and do their damage through the maintain while you watch cat videos on your second monitor.
Snark never dies.
Some things to consider:
Our UI cannot separate your debuffs from others (like placing them on their own line), making any sort of situation where other players are applying Plasma Burn not so player friendly. Keeping the effect to something that's consistent is a lot more multi player friendly as cap stacks are easier to gauge. Getting a icon to appear on your character per stack isn't really doable either.
There are other powers that apply Plasma Burn, and that needs to be taken into consideration when throwing out suggestions as we have finite time to work on these revisions.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
A few things to consider.
- Even with an energy circle I had to use lightwave slash after every 3 luminescent slashes, else energy would not work out. So that ended up in a rotation of: chest beam > lightwave slash > luminescent slash x 3 > lightwave slash > luminescent slash x 3.
- Lightwave slash does a knockdown only on full charge, while eviscerate does everything it needs to do on a tap, that is mostly why the dps on luminescent slash is lower.
- Unlike bleeds, plasma burn does not scale with melee damage bonus.
Of course the luminescent slash dps has to be miltuplied by 1.44 again, so that would be a total dps of 5.3k.
If luminescent slash would also get a 30% base damage bonus on the inset status proc like massacre/annihilate, it would do 5.6k dps. That is already starting to come close to what other melee sets can do. If the knockdown adv on luminescent slash would also refresh burn through on a full charge, I think things would be quite competitive (though still slightly low... but not 100% sure my timing on the luminescent slash is optimal yet).
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The old LS combo had a base energy consumption of about 48 eps (w/o PA adv), new LS combo is ~35 eps, and Lum Slash is ~57 eps atm. For more context, old LS base dps was ~612, Lum Slash dps is ~521-530 atm (keep in mind that activation delay hurts instants like the LS combo more, and now there's more routes to debuff for it).
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
This set has been in discussion for the better part of the year. There were no shortage of ideas and we still got a cop-out Single Blade reskin. Except that Single Blades is better across the board. What a joke.
I suppose there's still time for the set to not be full of sadness when dumped on live, but I don't have any faith in that happening.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I think we'd all prefer a larger difference between laser swords and single blade, even if the Ultimate came out without the powerset being revised.
Steam Aura....Needs more Steam. I'm not seeing any effects really.
And make Another Steam Aura without "auras interact with movement" part. More "spouts"(hope this makes more sense now and is more Steampunkish, what ever that may be...)
And Ooze Aura could use black Oil option also...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I'd rather it took 6 months or more to finish and came out right than have it rushed out the door BECAUSE DEADLINES DEMAND IT only to get a lesser product.
Take your time on the laser sword revamp, devs. Many have been waiting for years already. A few more months won't kill anyone.
Let's not bring 'sense' in visual effects.
So steam engines don't sprout steam out when not in motion? Steam doesn't create pressure?
Riiight.
Steampunk. Ok, you know that the engines, pistons, whatevas move inside the steampunk robots/automatons even when they are not moving. Like, creating steam. <===Sense.
And yes, it comes out on movement. Can't really see it. I'd take a picture, but it doesn't really show in one...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The point I was trying to convey was the design idea is to have an aura that spouts steam. If it was always shooting steam, it would never have these "spouts" of steam. Adding the movement mechanic to it makes it have different rates of spouting and adds to that sense of steam coming out from stress. I imagine if this was a zen store pack, they would include a "constant" stream of steam aura as well that wasn't so intermittent.
42 40s, LTSer.
42 40s, LTSer.
To clarify, I think the flow and look of Laser Swords is much better, looks cooler, is more thematic. However, gameplay wise it is so close to Single Blade that it is like choosing between Slash and Reaper's Caress. Point being, the set is better than before, but even if it means taking more time, most of us rather wait and see powersets be more diverse rather than wonder "what could have been".
-TK Swords has Ego Leech + Ego Blade Annihilation to "rupture" Leech and recover stacks (thereby proccing the set EB).
Having a specific EB for Plasma Burn (LSwords) seems ok, we need a different implementation of Plasma Burn.
Philosophy:
-Make Laser Sword a set that is not based on Rupture or Crits. More on high energy/high damage, DOTs, and defense.
Implementation:
-Make Plasma Burn gain natively energy over time (x Energy / 3 s for 9 s, scales off END or REC) when a stack expires (max 3 stacks of PB).
-Make a Tier3 single target attack that on a full charge deals more damage the more stacks of PB are on the target. Does not apply PB.
-Make a Tier3 single target combo attack that when completed gives a meaningful defense bonus. Can proc PB with an advantage.
Would this be feasible?
My Characters
And yeah, the current one needs more of an effect.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
42 40s, LTSer.
Stuff like this is why I rarely bother making serious suggestions. There are some thing I would love to see with laser swords, but I doubt they'll ever happen. If everyone else's suggestions were ignored in favor of an inferior Single Blade reskin, why would mine be looked at?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
42 40s, LTSer.
PA on the other hand has serious issues. They should spend more time on that.
Nobody's saying this will take six months. What I said (or meant to say) was that I'd rather they took their time on this to get it right than push out the crappy single blade reskin currently sitting on PTS. "Six months" was just a number I threw out there. I don't speak for everyone (obviously) but I personally would be fine waiting that long if it meant getting laser swords as a new, fun framework that offered interesting and unique gameplay.
I want them to take their time and get this right, not rush and copypaste.
So relax guys, it's not going to take six months. Nowhere (that I'm aware of) did they ever say that.