Valiance Online

a1fighter · June 2016

Sorry if there is already one of these, did not see it, so I just made one. This thread is not to slight CO, just want to get that out of the way. the devs are doing a great job as of late, content is flying out the doors.

I was browsing the Titans network and someone mentioned that this game will be hitting Steam soon, along with the alpha phase. I checked out their FB page and official site, a dev confirmed this to be true. I suspect they will be dropping sometime this month. What is your level of interest in this game?

Recent hairstyle pics.

More pics here. https://www.facebook.com/ValianceOnline/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

I am optimistic, but not entirely sold. here are some of their plans.

-Customizable Pets

"Hello, I just wanted to chime in and say, as Jaximus said, that customizable pets/minions are already a planned feature.

The current system used for them allows the same amount of flexibility as any other character (player or NPC). How much of that is editable on pets/minions is still to be decided, however. There will obviously be many options that will differ between players and pets/minions, just as there are options for NPCs that are not available as player options."

Q: What can you expect from the Pet System?

A: A lot, as you noticed we have 3 different types of Special Archetypes that deal primarily with pets each one will have a different role and tools to deal with different situations. Each one will have a unique theme and play style that we think will provide an amazing experience to people that had deep respect and found profound enjoyment from the MM class in CoH.

As for more information regarding these classes, well you will need to be patient all will be revealed in time.

-Powers

Q: Are we really going to have 90 Power Sets?

A: Yes, 90 different Power Sets is the goal. At the time of this post we currently have 37 different Power Sets in game or in late stages of development.

Anyone interested in the Steam product? I am semi-interested, not entirely sold. Nice ideas, but not sure they can execute.

biffsmackwell · June 2016

I'll try it. If the combat is anything like CoH, I'm most assuredly out. Beyond that, if the characters are as highly customizable appearance-wise as Champions, it'll have a lot going for it. I'll wait and see on their powers and animations and stuff.

biffsmackwell · June 2016

If pets can be like, a sidekick or a dog or something, I think that'll be cool. If it's a pet class that just runs around with an army of dudes, then I have about zero interest in it.

jonsills · June 2016

My interest level is mild. If the game is good, that'll be nice; if not, I'm still getting my superhero fix from CO either way, so whatever.

kallethen · June 2016

I'm kinda feeling the same. I'll at least check it out. I'll at least say that they've been making progress.

flyingfinn · June 2016

I'm not feeling anything.

They could have gone for a cartoonish art style. Instead it's just...Sims?...

(so your hair is just a single big piece of one hair?)

nepht · June 2016

Well good luck to them the more Super Hero MMOs the better.

sterga · June 2016

Nostalgia only works when looking from the future to the past with rose-tinted lenses.

The VO team seems more interested in recreating a game based on dated architecture instead of a really awesome superhero game that takes advantage of the tech available in 2016.

championshewolf · June 2016

I've tried the game on multiple occasions, and all they are really trying to do is just recreate CoH per beat, and other than an over bloated cast of archetypes doesn't try to innovate at all, especially in this day when people are tired of tab targetting samey MMOs. While I wish them the best, I don't foresee this title getting much bigger than hey, another bad guy beat em up simulator disguised as a super hero game.

No stealth options, investigating or any of those features in a world that has been now spoiled by the likes of the Arkham games and other such titles as Deus Ex, The Secret World and so on, and in a genre that forgot that open world means more than having plenty of bad guys to beat up. This is going to be a tough sell in the modern market.

It will have the same issue that Champions, IMO, has right now; the world won't feel alive or lived in, like it has a history. I think that's the difference between the modern MMO and the ones that were made ages ago that people still pine over. When the answer is always look it up online to discover history about the game, I just don't see people wanting to form an attachment anymore.

jonsills · June 2016

Interesting. Of the three games you chose to compare it to, only one is an MMO, and that one isn't supers. Perhaps your standards of comparison need recalibrating.

championshewolf · June 2016

jonsills wrote: »

Interesting. Of the three games you chose to compare it to, only one is an MMO, and that one isn't supers. Perhaps your standards of comparison need recalibrating.

It's not really a standard of comparison, since I am comparing to modern things. Deus Ex, you play a super human cyborg with capabilities that most normal humans/cyborgs can't, there for it can easily fall under the super hero genre, especially since the super hero genre features several prominent future soldiers (aka cyborgs) in it from dystopian futures. Hardly what I call world shattering. And Deus Ex, especially with the new Mankind Divided is offering more interesting features that the MMO genre just has either abandoned because reasons or for some odd reason thinks no one in MMOs would be interested because of other reasons they never elaborate on.

Second, let's face it, many people consider the Arkham games the pinnacle of the super hero genre, with investigation, stealth elements, and ignoring the massive screw up of Arkham Knight, generally game play that involves more than just constantly smashing bad guy faces in to win.

Finally, I use The Secret World because of ALL the modern MMOs that have come out in recent memory, TSW was the last one that actually tried to innovate beyond just simple combat mechanics and provide new and interesting ways to do missions. Did it succeed? Kind of, but still fell back on those beat up bad guy roots in the end, but it still did way more in the MMO genre than has actually been done in the past 12 years. Not to mention, for the longest time after CoH fell, many CoH players looked at TSW as a semi super hero successor considering the fact that TSW had those extra quirks that added to hero tropes you generally see.

Hell if you want another super hero game example, look at Overwatch. The world feels lived in and alive, and there is weight and history behind everything. You can make the pretend argument that it's not a super hero game, but even Blizzard makes the statement that it is. So yea, the games are related, just because you don't want them to be doesn't change the fact they aren't, and being an MMO doesn't change anything anymore, since MMOs are essentially glorified single player games now.

jonsills · June 2016

You can do things with single-player (or even multi-player but not MMO) games that you can't do with MMOs, because you can control (to an extent) what the player does. It's easier to hide things behind the curtains when you're sure which angle the curtains can be viewed from. Fuller storytelling is possible that way.

championshewolf · June 2016

jonsills wrote: »

You can do things with single-player (or even multi-player but not MMO) games that you can't do with MMOs, because you can control (to an extent) what the player does. It's easier to hide things behind the curtains when you're sure which angle the curtains can be viewed from. Fuller storytelling is possible that way.

That is a complete farce, but do continue to tell yourself that. Anything you can do in a single player game can be done in an MMO, and has been demonstrated on numerous occasions. I can remember the days when people use to say that free attacks would never happen in an MMO and that tab targeting would be the way it is until the end of the world. Now look at it. If you believe that a game system more like Arkham is impossible in an MMO environment, or cover mechanics and the such, then you really have not kept up with the modern online gaming market. And there is precious little these days that separates MMOs from modern Online and Single Player games other than the unwillingness of MMO investors to dare break the tried and true mold that was considered good 12 years ago.

sterga · June 2016

You can have interesting storytelling in an MMO and The Secret World shows that. Just because most MMOs choose to have weaksauce, cookie-cutter missions doesn't mean that more interesting storytelling isn't possible. A mission where you investigate crime scenes, talk to people for information, and hunt down a criminal is totally possible in an MMO. It requires a great writer and voice acting that, unfortunately, aren't things studios seem to be interested in paying for.

Can't comment much on the story, but combat footage from VO looks painfully dated. And that's part of the problem: they aren't doing things that are actually possible in a modern MMO. Some of the things CoX did was due to limitation in available tech. Limitation that don't exist in 2016. An MMO coming out today doesn't need to have global cooldowns on basic powers and artificially slowed combat because much better netcode is available.

You don't have to be some super pro MLG player to appreciate responsive controls and minimal server / client desync.

Skyforge would be a whole lot less fun to play if every time I clicked, I had to wait 2 seconds to click for the next part of the combo. The combat isn't even anything terribly complicated or twitch reflex based. It's mostly just left or right clicking to perform combos and dashing out of the way of very obviously telegraphed big attacks. Stuff like that wasn't possible in CoX's day, but certainly is now.

Unless Valiance has some of the most amaziballs storytelling ever or combat gets significantly improved, I don't have much faith in the game.

markhawkman · June 2016

I can visualize the delicious delicious rage the first time they make a queue where Mapradius is useful.

nextnametaken · June 2016

They should simply produce their super hero materials for Unity Asset Store and/or Daz3D, Unreal Engine, and especially the newly open sourced CryEngine, which they originally were going to spend money to license way back when they started.

Someone already beat them to the super hero punch on Daz3D assets years ago and now you can just move those high resolution Daz3D models into Unity and produce whatever you like with them and I'm sure the other free AAA game engines have a similar pipeline.

I think CO and CoH show where a closed source super hero game leads to and that's a lockbox before a coffin.

markhawkman · June 2016

Sooo how profitable is it to produce assets for Unity?

nextnametaken · June 2016

$10,000 in a month is one guy's results.

What that guy says:

It didn't take long before I felt like a kid in a candy store. Buying assets that I didn't even needed just because they looked cool. Over 600 dollars spent in a month. Then it hit me. I had spent more in that store that I ever spent on games my entire life. Is it possible that people can ... make a living out of this?

and

I haven't been on the Asset Store long enough to tell you if I can make a steady living with what I offered so far, but the numbers are quite promising. On the first month I had 0 exposure other then the forum thread, and made around 2k with just a single tool. Now, with 3 tools available, my average increased to 3k. As far as I can tell, your assets will always have a good amount of sales even without promotion or constant support, meaning you are free to make even more assets as time passes by. More assets, more sales!

Lip synch asset sold 251 units in a "24 hour sale" promotion, that's almost $5k.

Unity is just one market, Unreal is another, open source Cryengine is another, Mixamo Fuse is another, and there's always places like Daz3D and TurboSquid both of which have been around for sixteen years.

championshewolf · June 2016

Unity engine market isn't really going anywhere lately as developers shy away from it more and more now.

nextnametaken · June 2016

As usual, you talk out of your tail.

Speaking at Unite Boston 2015, CEO John Riccitiello discussed the technology’s latest successes in a ‘By The Numbers’ presentation based on data gathered from Unity Analytics. The report was based on downloads and titles released between April 1st and July 31st.

During that period, a total of 174,183 unique games or apps were developed using the Unity game engine, which Riccitiello says boasts a market share of 45 per cent when it comes to mobile games engines.

Just to rub your nose it.

championshewolf · June 2016

I don't find that talking out the tail, since Unity is drawing huge criticism of games on Steam and other platforms being thrown together by a huge number of inexperienced developers. Considering the majority of Unity engine use tends to be apps and such and most of them badly created, you don't exactly see big name game developers flocking to Unity.

markhawkman · June 2016

Also, doesn't using Unity make it rather easy to people to copy your work?

nextnametaken · June 2016

You have no idea what you are talking about, birdman.

and shedog is going lower and deeper than her tail for the nonsense she's farting out.

Rise of the Tomb Raider made with Unity and 'one of the year's best' games.

Kerbal Space Program, huge industry hit, made with Unity.

System shock: remastered a classic from the 90s returns.

Royal Revolt made with Unity, brought in $1 million in sales on a single day in September 2015. Royal Revolt gets a Steam release this month after already being successful on every platform it's been ported to and Royal Revolt II is right around the corner.

nextnametaken · June 2016

[Double post]

championshewolf · June 2016

You know, it's always a sign when someone is losing an argument when they just resort to name calling. While you can list press, you also seem to ignore the negative stock. You can continue to do that, but all you are doing with the name calling is taking credit away from yourself. Not to mention, the CEO with Unity is actually disappointed the engine is not the universal game engine yet.

Furthermore, Rise of the Tomb Raider's engine is called Foundation Engine , Crystal Dynamics own in house engine.

needless to say you haven't exactly pulled a lot out as proof other than a few when many developers still seem to stick with other engines, like Unreal, CryTech and so forth, or go in house, like Rise of The Tomb Raider. In fact the article you link says nothing about the engine that Rise of the Tomb Raider uses. And, btw, getting game of the year is not exactly considered an achievement since those get handed out like candy for big named games.

jonsills · June 2016

Frak's sake, would you two just go get a room already?

jennymachx · June 2016

Either way I don't see Valiance Online being in a position to be developing their own inhouse engine. Going with Unity makes sense, as it would if they went with Unreal.

A very successful crowdfunded game like Divinity: Original Sin could afford to develop their own inhouse engine without relying on something like UNITY because they had gotten nearly $1 million's worth backing and Larian Studios come off as more than capable of developing their own engines with the various Divinity games already released.

sistersilicon · June 2016

Unity always had a reputation as the engine you lived with when you didn't have the resources to build or license something better. One of the reasons Unreal Engine switched to a free-with-royalties model was because Unity was actually getting good, and Epic wanted to cut them off at the pass.

Also, next, you might be mixing up VO and CoT (happens to us all at some time) on engines. I think Silverhelm had always been building VO on Unity. Missing Worlds Media did demo Cryengine for its very earliest prototyping work on CoT, before switching to UE3 then accepting Epic's help to upgrade to UE4 when it launched.

nepht · June 2016

The true spirit of Unity captured in one screenshot.

Yeah. People can point out the one or two good games made on Unity...those games will never make up for the total cluster f*&^ that was The Slaughtering Grounds and the constant garbage that Digital Homicide ( two dudes in a shed ) spammed and continues to spam Steam Greanlight with :I

championshewolf · June 2016

nepht wrote: »

The true spirit of Unity captured in one screenshot.

Yeah. People can point out the one or two good games made on Unity...those games will never make up for the total cluster f*&^ that was The Slaughtering Grounds and the constant garbage that Digital Homicide ( two dudes in a shed ) spammed and continues to spam Steam Greanlight with :I

There's more than that, but it just one of the most shining examples of what usually comes out of a Unity engine endeavor. But then again there have been some terrible Unreal games, but the difference there, there have actually been some huge games to off-set the shitty ones.

jennymachx · June 2016

Wasteland 2. Shadowrun Returns. 7 Days To Die. Space Hulk. Interstellar Marines. Rust. Thomas Was Alone. Pillars of Eternity. Kerbal Space Program. Ori and the Blind Forest.

Just some examples of games done right with Unity, so the engine can be viable. It just boils down to just how well the developers use the tools they have access to (or how poorly).

spinnytop · June 2016

nepht said:
The true spirit of Unity captured in one screenshot.

The true spirit of the Atari. I think we can all agree everything released for that platform was utter garbage.

Oh god, and remember that stinker the NES?

nepht · June 2016

jennymachx said:
Wasteland 2.

The updated version of Wasteland 2 is a cluster f&^* though. The devs re-released it with better graphics trying to cash in on Fallout 4 hype and broke the game and they still have not fixed it right. Shame as when Wasteland 2 works its a great little game.

championshewolf · June 2016

nepht wrote: »

Wasteland 2.

The updated version of Wasteland 2 is a cluster f&^* though. The devs re-released it with better graphics trying to cash in on Fallout 4 hype and broke the game and they still have not fixed it right. Shame as when Wasteland 2 works its a great little game.

I bought that game, hoping for something good. Talk about massive disappointment.

nepht · June 2016

championshewolf said:

I bought that game, hoping for something good. Talk about massive disappointment.

Wasteland 2 is one of those moments where they ruin the game in the remaster.

chaelk · June 2016

spinnytop wrote: »

The true spirit of Unity captured in one screenshot.

The true spirit of the Atari. I think we can all agree everything released for that platform was utter garbage.

Oh god, and remember that stinker the NES?

don't forget Runescape 1st and 3rd editions, still going after 15 years.
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meedacthunist · June 2016

I'd have a much warmer opinion about Wastelands 2 if I did not have to deal with glitches or overall bad performance. Considering how average are graphics in this game you'd rather expect it not being a resource hog bigger than Divinity or Fallout 4, lol.

Wouldn't use this game to advocate any engine. On a technical level it's just bad. On a game design level it isn't anything great either. Too many skills does effectively the same, but are very narrow in scope when they can be applied, others are useless point sinks. All in a game where characters are usually short on skill points.

beezeeze · June 2016

Be sure to let us all know when we can sign up for beta of this game

chaelk · June 2016

beezeeze wrote: »

Be sure to let us all know when we can sign up for beta of this game

which one? several are in discussion

championshewolf · June 2016

beezeeze wrote: »

Be sure to let us all know when we can sign up for beta of this game

They've had the pre-alpha out for sometime, and I am still amused that they even launched it in the current state it is in.

spinnytop · June 2016

I would play this game, but I don't vape.

sistersilicon · June 2016

championshewolf said:

beezeeze wrote: »

Be sure to let us all know when we can sign up for beta of this game

They've had the pre-alpha out for sometime, and I am still amused that they even launched it in the current state it is in.

Oh, my word. Valiance is so, so pre-alpha. I hadn't tried it since before they added the female player model, so I figured I'd give it a fresh look. My first female character ended up with Alpha Mask Magenta eyelashes and a 7-10 second latency between attack keypress and activation. If you're saving hard drive space for it, you should have enough time to download, finish, and uninstall a few other titles first.

There is a very good reason why City of Titans is only dropping the occasional, carefully curated YouTube video right now.

pantagruel01 · June 2016

sistersilicon wrote: »

There is a very good reason why City of Titans is only dropping the occasional, carefully curated YouTube video right now.

Hm. The last CoT videos struck me as "why would you show that stuff in public?" If VO is worse, ....

beezeeze · June 2016

chaelk said:

beezeeze wrote: »

Be sure to let us all know when we can sign up for beta of this game

which one? several are in discussion

Those ones with the superheroes of course.

Ok yes I did play that pre pre alpha thing you could download for VO... it was some time ago but... yeah it was far from anything I'd personally put out to the public to get them excited for my game... I guess it was a thing that you could start up and play around with a bit, heck it was almost like a video game!(a very very bad one)

That is more than what can be said for CoT... at least last I had heard about it.

Keep us updated OP!

Can't fairly judge something we haven't gotten to play yet.

sistersilicon · June 2016

pantagruel01 said:

sistersilicon wrote: »

There is a very good reason why City of Titans is only dropping the occasional, carefully curated YouTube video right now.

Hm. The last CoT videos struck me as "why would you show that stuff in public?" If VO is worse, ....

Crowdfunding not only lets you see how the sausage is made, it subscribes you to its YouTube channel.

It's one of the downsides of video game funding on Kickstarter. That, and Mighty No. 9-level mismanagement of rewards and stretch goals that lead to launching on 10 platforms at once and an almost four hour credit reel at the end. MWM at least had the good sense to stop at macOS as a stretch goal for CoT.

championshewolf · June 2016

CoT looks no more impressive than Valiance to me, and considering the amount of time and how little they've actually accomplished, crowdfunded or not, is not a good sign.

chalupaoffury · June 2016

God dammit, we're still doing this aren't we?

I get that people are excited to have their updated CoX clones and all, but I really hope nobody's honestly expecting any of these to be successful. The better looking one looks like a ps2 game, and even licensed super hero mmos with recognizable characters are barely squeaking by. A non-licensed indie super hero mmo, based on a dead franchise, is not going to work. Two of them even less so.

Why they decided to split into 2 mmos I'll never understand, but IMO that was the first signal that neither of these had a chance. Whatever tiny player base they were looking at for launch is split right out of the gate, that won't end well. Hell, VO's youtube has less than 500 people. To put it into context, this freaking guy has 4x that, and half as many followers as the game has likes on Facebook.

championshewolf · June 2016

Technically they split into Three. I dunno where Valliance came from, but Heroes and Villains split off from CoT due to differences in opinion or whatever, and yata yata. But people can't let go is the biggest answer. People believe they are the only ones who were passionate about their gone game, though I can show evidence to the contrary for games like SWG, Matrix Online, Earth and Beyond, WAR, etc. This firm belief that CoH was a special snowflake is often amusing.

Valiance Online

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