The change to 2GM is going to break a lot of builds. It's also going to hurt the overall flow of the munitions set. At low level the only other pistol option is holdout shot, which imo is terrible. The animation is weak and the dmg leaves a lot to be desired for something on a 10 sec cooldown.
Burst shot in its current state is very meh, it's underperforming damage wise, it costs too much energy to use, and the animation boring.
Could've just replaced Closing the Gap advantage on it, since I've used it on PTS and LIVE saw no change in my damage. It would make more sense if people wanted to use 2gm for hitting other targets like in movies you know HEAT, The Matrix, The Expendables, Commando, I can keep listing more and more.
I.e.
Two-Gun-Mojo
Rank 2 - Damage Increase
Rank 3 - Damage Increase
Special Advantage - Changes your Single Target Damage to Area of Effect damage allow you to hit five targets with you pistols however the cost of using this advantage is increased, your damage is reduced and offers no buff to defense penetration as oppose to Starting Rank Description.
If shred is to be changed, can it be changed into a three hit maintain that applies shredded on the final tic? Combo powers are horrible in CO; I'd like every one of them to die.
After some limited testing in the PTS powerhouse, the energy cost for 2GM seems to me to be too much, given the unlock it's supposed to work with. Using KI w/ AoPM, Chilled Form, 180 Ego and 330 Dex, the character I was on bottomed out pretty quickly in hybrid role, getting through only a few full maintains.
In no way is it doing that. Every time their is a power update to a power you use, you will have to adjust unless you are really fortunate. I mean... so what? You get a retcon, those builds will still work for the most part, it isn't a big deal.
I think they mean for power unlocks/power choices specifically, but on my main's build, I was playing around with it and I still had enough power choices to drop 2GM as a Tier 1, still pick it up as a Tier 3 and not have to change anything.
However, that's with a semi-focus on Force along with taking some lower-tier healing powers, so builds that dabble more and take more higher-tier powers from disparate sets might end up being invalid.
After some limited testing in the PTS powerhouse, the energy cost for 2GM seems to me to be too much, given the unlock it's supposed to work with. Using KI w/ AoPM, Chilled Form, 180 Ego and 330 Dex, the character I was on bottomed out pretty quickly in hybrid role, getting through only a few full maintains.
The degree of increase to energy cost might be the only part I disagree with for the TGM changes. The cost is nearly tripled when compared to its current values on LIVE. I feel like it can use a slight reduction in that regard.
May I suggest substituting Challenging Strikes for CC to Shred and Viper Fangs, plus adding CS to 2GM and BB -- for consistency.
With Steadfast, I hope we plan on adding a STR based EU too.
On the topic of combos, will we also be seeing Ego Weaponry, Laser Sword also go AoE? Both make sense themewise to do so. Maybe also Thundering Kicks, Beatdown and Defensive Combo (which is already 1/3 AoE).
Also, please please change Beatdown so third hit applies Enrage!!!
Specialist comment: Too bad Chiller form didn't proc on crits. Or any ranged form for crit proc stacks. Or just a generic form that procs on crits and scales everything equally.
Curious: Do people keep attacking at sub 20% HP or do they block and hide? I just don't see that on Holdout being very useful since most people are going to be healing long before they drop that low or blocking after getting a spike that tanks their HP.
Bug: Taking Names advantage applies two stacks one stack of Furious per target hit instead just one stack total. At least, I assume this is a bug given the advantages wording.
____________________________________
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
Loving the attention to balance as of late. Keep it up!
I will say, though, as someone who does not use Two-Gun Mojo, I don't know that the AoE change is all that good. A lot of people may have builds that count on the power being single-target (such as using Vindicator tree's Focused Strikes specialization), and as such that particular change seems kinda needlessly disruptive.
Glad to see Sniper Rifle get its Stun fixed, though I JUST switched away from it a few days ago. XD *shakes fist!*
I'm going to get trolls, sending me gifs, of "I don't like change", but oh well
I use TGM, alot on my Gun-Slinger build (Duel Pistols), as it was main power I used, but now its a another Teir, I have to use the new power, and this i just how I feel about it, but its quite ****.
TGM, to me pretty much got a huge Nerf, but oh well, I get a free Recon with it, so I guess I can make a new build out of my toon who uses it. So win-win really.
But considering that we got 2 new powers, along with it, I think this is a pretty got update, but yes I'll admit, Im a tat-bit salty over the TGM change.
Edit: Ok, didn't see the power behind the new burst-Shot thingy, but yeah the thing needs to be changed to act like a bust-shot, its pretty lack Custer, if that gets a speed up change and what ever the changes people want in here "STO phaser something"
Then that will be great, then might be able to keep my Gun-Slinger build (Duel Pistols)
Tho, I have to admit, Im enjoying the Buffs, Bullet Beat-Down and Holdout Shot has, but this is just the first update, so we got some time until its posted on Live
Specialist Update
- The Specialist Archetype can now choose between the following attacks:
Level 1: Gunslinger or Rain of Steel
Level 1: Burst Shot or Blade Tempest
Level 6: Eye of the Storm
Level 7: Lightning Reflexes or Way of the Warrior
Level 11: Breakaway Shot or Thunderbolt Lunge
Level 14: Form of the Tempest Level 17: Two-Gun Mojo or Bullet Beatdown
Level 21: Parry
Level 25: Killer Instinct or Steadfast
Level 30: Holdout Shot
Level 35: Lack n Load or Masterful Dodge
Level 40: Lead Tempest or Sword Cyclone
WoW, Specialist got Beefed with Choices! you can be either Dodge Tank or DPS now! amazing
WAIT! My specialist cannot have both Two-Gun Mojo and Bullet Beatdown now?
- New Power: Steadfast This is an energy unlock for the martial arts framework. It gives you energy whenever you land a critical hit with a martial arts ability. The energy return scales off of dexterity and recovery.
YES! MORE THEMATIC ENERGY UNLOCKS! NOW WE ARE TALKING
THATS HOW YOU MAKE BUILD DIVERCITY! GIVING OPTIONS
And thats how I detach MSA from 8 Builds... wait... I need to retcon 8 characters
I second the motion, all the MA Archetypes (Blade, Unleashed, Fist , Master, Night Avenger) needs to get updated with that Energy Unlock
Munitions Framework
Two Gun Mojo
- This power has been moved to tier 3.
- No longer applies Concentration.
- No longer has penetrating damage.
- Cost of power increased.
- Two Gun Mojo is now a 2ft cylinder area effect attack with a target cap of 3. Its damage is reduced based on the number of targets you hit.
- Two Gun Mojo now has a chance every hit to apply Furious. Furious can stack up to 5 times and increases your critical chance by 1% per stack. When you are struck by an attack while Furious, you will receive the Willpower buff which gives you a small heal over time.
Never cared for the Penetrating Damage, I will keep using it for theme and not like certain Individuals who use it as I-Win-Button and going against their character theme (Im looking at you Hercules, Goddess of Light e.t.c)
Bullet Ballet
- Moved to tier 2.
- Bullet Ballet now refreshes Furious after completing the full power combo.
- Hit 2 changed to a 3 target cap 2 foot cylinder. Hit 3 changed to a 180 degree cone. Hit 4 changed to a 3 target cap 2 foot cylinder.
- Not Without Incident advantage has been changed to proc when you are affected by Furious.
- Removed Rage or Concentration proc from Not Without Incident.
Reapers Caress
- Reapers Caress Hits 1 and 2 changed to 240 degree cones. Hit 3 changed to 360 degree cone.
- Bleeds can be applied to all targets hit. Chance to apply bleed.
- Cleaving Strikes advantage has been changed to apply Shredded when you finish the power combo.
- Cost increased slightly for all hits.
So now this is an AoE as well?
Hmm Still waiting for a Sword Rain AoE cone attack for Single blade
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
THE ONE FREAKING POWER I PRAYED YOU WOULDN'T TOUCH YOU TOUCHED! BAD TOUCH! *narrows eyes*
I am writing in rage right now, knee jerk reaction so I'll admit that and I am not targeting the devs themselves just the changes that I completely disagree with and that is all. So yes incoming rant and for those ready to reply with laughs, enjoy talking to yourself, this is written for the devs to see that I am unhappy with this change so I care not what anyone else wants to tell me on this unless you are offering to try to find ways to make me find some silver lining in this at all.
If I wanted to play the other gun powers I would have taken it for my theme build now it feels like am strong armed into that choice or deal with this *new* TGM... UGH!
Debate me all you want but messing with TGM killed my character. This power was my single target attack and center of my build. I don't care i got a respec for it, I at last had found a game that gives me dual guns and makes it feel ya know like I am a gunner and now that's crushed to dust in my eyes. I play another mmo (well use to play I dropped the sub for co, might regret that now) in that game they gave us guns then turned it into something weaker then a bard and lame, nothing fun gun at all! I know you gave a whole big speech in news about the power adjustment and people raging, so you'll expect this. Telling me to try other powers with ugly animations and messed up my theme build for the sake of making the game feel harder, can you please drop that crap? I am already grinding your stupid insane high SCR tokens and now this??
I don't know what people abused TGM but I know even with this power I got crushed, it is tricky to use cause you screw up your dead (i've died lots) Also as stated TGM was ADJUSTED before and now you took away what made it EVEN worth it! I don't know what your trying to make this harder when I have it hard enough, this build was MY FAV made me happy to play and now... its this... this .... I can't even form words. And those who reply laughing at my rage, do so and don't attempt to understand the reason for this rage. I don't know what op-ness people used, all I know is this power was the center of my build, my single target move and I died lots on this character but loved it cause at last guns that felt like I was doing something then bang *one shot* bang *one shot* boring crap!!
The game is going more team team team and I know there are people who desire this but your hurting us solo folks. I know people will say "why solo if your in an mmo." I can answer that, I play MMO's to talk to people and because I like the game/story/gameplay and can't play single player though honestly someone make a game like co single player only I be on that like no tomorrow but THERE ARE NO GAMES THAT OFFER THESE THINGS! And yes you can tell me to suck it up and play with others, I have no issue with that, I jump in Alerts sometimes for the simple sake of aiding new players or for fun. I team but I enjoy solo time, time to just go through missions and what not for fun and now this is another move toward crushing us solo players it drives me mad. My friend hearing this has quit, and no I don't expect anyone to care, for him this is the straw that broke the camels back and fyi he didn't even paly TGM he was more of a claws player. To him just seeing a power that was FIXED before get undone by new devs for the sake of making game feel harder (or as he sees it answering/making the 1% crowd happy) was end of it for him.
Curious: Do people keep attacking at sub 20% HP or do they block and hide? I just don't see that on Holdout being very useful since most people are going to be healing long before they drop that low or blocking after getting a spike that tanks their HP.
The power is supposed to be like a "last ditch effort" power. I assume if you are surrounded by enemies and have teammates, you'd just block. But in group play and you don't have aggro? Why not? It heals you either way, now the adv just makes it so if you are REALLY low, you get even more of a heal. I'm sure players will mentally adjust to whether or not to use it in the moment.
@ladylunamoon - It really isn't hurt all that much. It requires some more energy, but that usually wasn't a problem for 2GM builds anyways. It still is going to be the power of choice for many dpsers. But I understand having your favorite powers messed with always feels like a knife in the side when you already had planned out builds with the previous performance in mind.
Wow, alright lady, clam yourself a little eh?, I mean I know I'm salty over the TGM, change but...GEEZ
I'm not THAT upset, sure it killed my Gun-Slinger build, but I'm adaptable, I can change my thame at free will, both IC and OOC.
If they buff, Burst Shot, and make the changes that players want in its SFX/Visuals, then yes maybe my build or yours in this case, will be saved, I gotta admit, I do't like the changes at all, well thats a lie.
Only thing I dislike about the change is the End-Cost, and the Tier Move placement, if they didn't change any of that, this whuold of been fine.
But I guess this allows me to think of a new cool thame for my new toon, now or even make a new one, we're getting a FREE Recon token, so that shuold be a nice pay-up.
Edit: Uhm, just wanna point out that Im not the "friend" who quit, just in-case someone thinks that..
...unless you are offering to try to find ways to make me find some silver lining in this at all.
The good:
* The crit chance from Furious is flat crit chance, so it's not subject to DR like it would be as Crit Rating. * The base damage of the power wasn't touched. * Willpower is a free heal you didn't have before (which is great for soloing) * There are two pistol-based AoEs in Munitions now that don't involve flipping or spinning or doing other impractical stuff. (Two Gun Mojo and Burst Shot)
The bad:
* It's more expensive * If you were leveling a new character, you'd have to wait to get it. (But it sounds like you're already at 40, so you can just retcon around.) * If you were relying on it solely for single-target damage, you run the risk of hitting things near your intended target. Mitigating this a bit is that they'd have to be directly behind your intended target or beside and within two in-game feet of them, so you can usually solve this by backing up a bit.
It basically traded 10% defense penetration for 5% crit chance and a free heal. That's a decent trade, IMO.
The cost thing could be a problem, but the crit chance buff will help mitigate that if you're using the standard-for-Munitions Killer Instinct unlock.
While I personally don't like it being changed to an AoE, it's still perfectly serviceable as a single-target damage dealing power if there's nothing to hit with the AoE.
Also, Burst Shot's quite good as a debuff, is...decent...as an AoE damage power and has two fairly useful advantages. The "Off your Feat" thing is knockdown, not knockback, at least from my testing (which is infinitely preferable). Might be worth trying.
Not an unqualified silver lining, but I tried.
And if your friend had a camel's back moment, it sounds like he just saw "Two Gun Mojo changes" and stopped reading. This is far from a universal nerf to anything except the cost (and it works better with Killer Instinct in trade).
He should also try Claws with the new AoE Viper's Fangs. It's pretty awesome, you can actually hit multiple things with a still-in-theme attack. I figured hell would freeze over before Fighting Claws got an AoE.
Avianos literally talked about the EU for themes, bet he'll be super happy now!! (as am I, but I don't like MA, not aesthetically pleasing..) the changes to bestial?: Why the cost increase?.
Nyo Ho Ho~ You have no idea how happy I was when I saw that
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
The cost on the new 2gun is a bit high; I'm having trouble even getting a full maintain off, using int ss; and any energy unlock, seems mostly fine otherwise.
I am curious as to why people don't want 2Gm as an AoE? I would prefer it that way. It isn't currently classified as one. It doesn't proc anything that is AoE based (i.e. Locus spec) and gets a crit buff from Focused Strikes, not mass destruction.
If it was AoE, you could just focus your specs on AoE powers to make a munitions build. The rest of the cool munition powers are going to be AoE powers - Bullet beatdown, the MA powers the Specialist would have, Frag grenade, Lead tempest, shotgun blast - these are AoE. Unless you want a 2GM/Sniper/Assualt Rifle build, 2GM would preform better classified as an AoE. ATM, they left it classified as a single target with a 2ft cone (1ft for each pistol?), probably because 2ft is the tiniest AoE I've ever heard of.
But if it was classified as an AoE you'd get more synergy from it, and if it only hit one target at a time, you'd actually do less dps.
The cost on the new 2gun is a bit high; I'm having trouble even getting a full maintain off, using int ss; and any energy unlock, seems mostly fine otherwise.
I agree that it feels a tad too high. It is staggering to use if you don't proc either your form or your EU unless you invested into Int or spec'd high for Cost discount. It isn't REALLY high, but being a bit lower would be better.
Interesting changes, though I'm a bit worried about TGM innately having AoE properties now. Feels like that should be reserved for a special adv (and also since burst shot has an AoE component itstelf). Also, its new energy cost I feel is far too high. Other Muni maintains- both AoE and ST, low and high tier- are like 35-60% of TGM's cost now. That doesn't seem right.
As far as the combo revamp: sounds cool, but can we get clarification if, say, Shred, Reaper's Caress, and VF are being flagged as AoE now or not? I imagine the ones w/ CripC adv are staying as ST flagged, but I'm not sure of the intent. Also, in light of this revamp, ya may wanna re-look at melee cone AoE powers again- esp charged ones like Scything Blade that still have a 120-degree cone.
edit- Just did some quick testing w/ the combos:
Bug: Frenzy doesn't seem to be flagged as a combo still- at least its not stacking Grit from Warden Mastery, and not procing Setup from Brawler.
Seems like Frenzy, Blade Tempest, and Cleave are still procing AoE specs; the others w/ AoE cones aren't.
Special Advantage - Changes your Single Target Damage to Area of Effect damage allow you to hit five targets with you pistols however the cost of using this advantage is increased, your damage is reduced and offers no buff to defense penetration as oppose to Starting Rank Description.
Yeah Closing the Gap needs to change now
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Ok, from what I read from the forums and ingame I agree
The new Two Gun Mojo Energy Cost is TOO MUCH
Please decrease the energy Cost, TGM is not Force Cascade for pete's sake
especially from all the Energy Unlock, Stats and Passives combos people tested with
Don't let it go live like that!
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Okay, I can understand a decision to nerf 2GM; it was overperforming. However, I don't understand this way of doing it -- you've basically just created a new power that uses the gfx of the old power, and because of the massively different energy cost requirements, it's not really going to be usable on the same builds as the old power. Why not leave the power where it was (tier 0, modest energy cost), adjust its damage to more appropriate values, and then add a new tier 3 pistol power?
Yea, the TGM revamp is a bit off to me. Energy cost is def off, but I think making it T3 is too restrictive to building- esp if ya want Pistols thematically. Kinda runs counter to CO's aim of expanding build diversity. Also changing it to a forced AoE is not great if there's no other ST pistol powers that are spammable and not end builders. Sometimes ya don't want splash dmg for aggro reasons.
TGM can get potentially higher optimal dmg now, though, thanks to Burst Shot's debuff and Furious- unless it also got a base dmg loss I that missed (not meaning taking the -10% resist away; burst shot gives back 15% from piercing). Assuming the energy cost can be adjusted to be more in line w/ other Muni maintains, the real 'nerf' to TGM here is the T3 move and needing another power slot to optimize it- but Muni builds were already tight and efficient as is, so that last one isn't so bad.
Ok, from what I read from the forums and ingame I agree
The new Two Gun Mojo Energy Cost is TOO MUCH
Please decrease the energy Cost, TGM is not Force Cascade for pete's sake
especially from all the Energy Unlock, Stats and Passives combos people tested with
Don't let it go live like that!
Kagami can maintain 2gun mojo without changing her stats, and without relying on energy from anything other than Concentration and Killer Instinct - dps role with Targeting Computer. I dunno what sort of crazy combos people tested, but that doesn't seem too nuts to me.
Oh and don't worry all you Con nuts, Kagami has 288 Dexterity, I'm sure you could easily flip that into Constitution without losing any energy flow. Heck I bet you could tweak it to get even better energy flow than what I got, maybe throw some cost discount mods into your gear ( i still had my gadget mods in my Speed utility primary )
Yeah looked at the base dmg on my gear/stat/star-less hybrid lvl 40. TGM went down about 20% (hitting one target).
*shrug* the extra debuff and crit stacking will help w/ that, but its still prob too many negative changes to one power atm. The base dmg hit should be notified either way.
This isn't just breaking level 1-14 builds, it's making level 40 builds invalid as well.
In no way is it doing that. Every time their is a power update to a power you use, you will have to adjust unless you are really fortunate. I mean... so what? You get a retcon, those builds will still work for the most part, it isn't a big deal.
Yes it is, I just logged into a level 40 on the ptr who used 2gm. My build was invalid and required an overhaul. With the change in tier 3 power now, those who were using it will need to find a new Tier 0 power to replace it and for munitions the options are rather slim, especially if trying to fit into a certain theme.
Yes it is, I just logged into a level 40 on the ptr who used 2gm. My build was invalid and required an overhaul. With the change in tier 3 power now, those who were using it will need to find a new Tier 0 power to replace it and for munitions the options are rather slim, especially if trying to fit into a certain theme.
If that theme is a guy using two pistols, you'll be happy to know there's a new Tier 0 dual pistols power that was just introduced.
PS - 2gm on pts still outdpses the build I have on live, with the exact same stats.
I ran in DPS (Avenger) mode with the standard Guardicator specs. Insight from EGO tree helped with energy management.. but 2gm is still pretty costly. I didn't bottom out completely though. 2gm is an aoe beast now.... it crits fast and often and the new buff applies itself very consistently. Clearing out a 5-man hard Demon on this wasn't too difficult.
My only complaint is the energy cost for 2GM -- it needs adjusting down somewhat. But I think I prefer the new 2GM over the old 2GM. It doesn't feel weak at all.. and those wanting defense penetration can go INT primary.. which might also help with energy management.
Overall though it's literally the only attack power you need on a pistol build. Which really isn't that much of a change from before.
1: There's a typo AND bug in the advantages for burst shot, "burst SHot will apply one stack<br.<br" to be precise... and the decirption dosn't change between taking names and off your feat.
2: Moving 2GM to tier 3 would make scense if it was still in it's ols state, in its current state, that's waaay too high a tier, I wouldn't put it higher than tier 2 at the most.
3: the energy cost increase on 2GM is...to be blunt, somewhere between stupid and insane, I mean COME ON, it costs more than bloody lighting arc.
4: it's bullet beatdown, not bullet ballet.
5: Considering the "rush" mechanic from dragon powers, was a MA EU really nessery?
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
1.) Love the Mardis Gras mask. Its nice that it'll be useable with the harlequin hats, unlike the Kabuki mask.
2.) New powers are always nice. Particularly thematic EUs.
3.) People are calling it a nerf, but what I'm reading on TGM seems like a net gain. The loss of penetating damage seems nicely mitigated by a heal component. I do think pentetrating damage should still have a place ingame though. Maybe add that onto Sniper Rifle and Focussed Shot? Anyhow, not that bad. I have to respec three builds, but I think I'll manage.
I am very positively inclined towards this balance fix.
I'm very please to see that many powers finally got some attentions.
However some changes made to the Munition Set struck me for a bit.....
TGM no longer deal penetration damage and have it cost increase, this sound like a nerf to it overused nature, which is something I understand, but by giving it a 2ft AOE don't seems right, since many powers within this set are AOE, and TGM is 1 of 2 single target maintain attack in the set, so giving it an AOE component would make it a waste or overlap by other powers from the same set. But TGM have chances to provide Furious stacks which trigger the advantage of Lead Tempest Advantage instead of Concentration, and also the stacks provide a small HOT when take damage sound neat. I really looking forward to this and see what combination things can turn out on live.
So, the only concern I have is the changes made to TGM, since TGM and AR are the only 2 single target maintain powers in the set that can be select early and both have their own use for either 100ft or 50ft depending on the player styles. Plus with TGM move to tier 3 then power selection at early level will have some difficulty, if not because of Theme Issues then it about left over power.
Then again I can't say how this will reflect my build for my Munition FF, only time and experiment can tell. So keep up the good work,,,,, and let not forget to smile
Yes it is, I just logged into a level 40 on the ptr who used 2gm. My build was invalid and required an overhaul. With the change in tier 3 power now, those who were using it will need to find a new Tier 0 power to replace it and for munitions the options are rather slim, especially if trying to fit into a certain theme.
If that theme is a guy using two pistols, you'll be happy to know there's a new Tier 0 dual pistols power that was just introduced.
PS - 2gm on pts still outdpses the build I have on live, with the exact same stats.
Except the new power is terrible, it's clunky, slow, and the animation is boring.
Just for fun tried the new 2gm with a Night Warrior + Ego/Con/Rec + Avengicator build. That new will power buff is awesome and the dmg is quite nice. It works well with bosses and mobs. And also room in your build for AO and AD to keep you going.
The new Pistol burst power is lackluster though. I honestly can't see leveling with it..it's not performing well IMHO. The debuff aspect is nice however.
* Please consider giving a free retcon to everyone instead of just people who use 2GM. There have been quite a few power changes which have effected both AT's and FF's these past few months. Allowing everyone a free retcon might be a nice goodwill gesture.. and maybe will calm some people down.
tried it on Anneika , one of my two farmers.
ego/dex/con-dex was highest stat at 260, only end/int/rec is on utility and talents.so 143 energy total. cost discount on utility gear.
overdrive- concentration- Night warrior-
only had an occasional 1 tick stop on spamming it, usually when overdrive wasn't on 3 stacks but then someone pointed out, it wasn't optimized build. *shrug* I don't have to change anything except a prereq to take into acct it's now T3.
Didn't notice much difference in damage either
I think the OP should be edited to clarify that 2GM is still a single target power since a lot of people are thinking otherwise.
Saying 'single target' is still misleading as it can indeed hit >1 target now (even says 'area effect' in the report); the flagging may still be ST, but the issue is it hitting extra targets. I don't really agree w/ changing TGM's core mechanics like that, when we have special advs that can serve that role.
Its not a huge deal, but it is a bit odd to redesign the power like that. We've always had LT and Breakaway Shot's AoE, and the new pistol power can also hit >1 target, so I don't see why TGM had to be made into a cylinder power.
"Also, @ Sammie, Specialist would get a respect by virtue of having 2GM (and everyone with 2GM getting a force respec)."
To clarify .. I was thinking the cost of the next respec, with the new system. As each choice will set off an increasing gold cost, not sure of the Devs considered how costly this could get. Especially with the bug of..
Bug: Specialist not able to make power choices! [Not just a respected character] Where - Respected 1st choice .. wouldn't choose again - Kept base choice and powered up to 20, next choices didn't work
Everything seems to be pretty well balanced, as far as I have tested. But I think Shred needs slightly higher damage (5% or 10% or so), it lags a bit behind Viper's Fangs now. But maybe even Shred is fine, since it has quite a bit lower energy cost.
And so ends the age of munitions DPS being top 3 material. It was a good run. Veraal finally has something to stab me with when I make fun of imbued sigils' extinction now.
**post test edit
TGMJ sure does cost almost the same energy per maintain as fire all weapons now. That sure is the end of that power while having any health. Yeesh.
This is exciting and while I agree with a lot of the changes, I'm concerned for Holdout Shot. Sure, the advantage got buffed, but to me that really makes no sense whatsoever. We're looking at a power with a clunky, long charge time with specific requirements to gain the full damage. Then you have the advantage for healing, which I don't think I have ever been able to choose away from, which now is buffed to even greater strengths! At this point I'm scratching my head at the fact that it isn't the core mechanic of the power, I'm afraid.
Kagami can maintain 2gun mojo without changing her stats, and without relying on energy from anything other than Concentration and Killer Instinct - dps role with Targeting Computer. I dunno what sort of crazy combos people tested, but that doesn't seem too nuts to me.
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I don't know at this point if this change will result in a significant change to my favorite character's damage, but I am starting to get "bug and balance" fatigue. And I'm not happy that-- even if I'm okay with the 2GM changes I have to retcon him because of its movement to Tier 3. (Which may not be a big deal to the rest of you but I'm not personally comfortable with retconning as I've only done it once.)
Are all these balance changes leading to something significant? Do you anticipate many more balance changes? Are there new powersets in our future?
Comments
I.e.
Two-Gun-Mojo
Rank 2 - Damage Increase
Rank 3 - Damage Increase
Special Advantage - Changes your Single Target Damage to Area of Effect damage allow you to hit five targets with you pistols however the cost of using this advantage is increased, your damage is reduced and offers no buff to defense penetration as oppose to Starting Rank Description.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
However, that's with a semi-focus on Force along with taking some lower-tier healing powers, so builds that dabble more and take more higher-tier powers from disparate sets might end up being invalid.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
going on the picture they aren't set up properly, should be in seperate bubbles, not in pairs in one bubble.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
With Steadfast, I hope we plan on adding a STR based EU too.
On the topic of combos, will we also be seeing Ego Weaponry, Laser Sword also go AoE? Both make sense themewise to do so. Maybe also Thundering Kicks, Beatdown and Defensive Combo (which is already 1/3 AoE).
Also, please please change Beatdown so third hit applies Enrage!!!
Curious: Do people keep attacking at sub 20% HP or do they block and hide? I just don't see that on Holdout being very useful since most people are going to be healing long before they drop that low or blocking after getting a spike that tanks their HP.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
WARNING: Not An Actual Internet Reviewer
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I use TGM, alot on my Gun-Slinger build (Duel Pistols), as it was main power I used, but now its a another Teir, I have to use the new power, and this i just how I feel about it, but its quite ****.
TGM, to me pretty much got a huge Nerf, but oh well, I get a free Recon with it, so I guess I can make a new build out of my toon who uses it. So win-win really.
But considering that we got 2 new powers, along with it, I think this is a pretty got update, but yes I'll admit, Im a tat-bit salty over the TGM change.
Edit: Ok, didn't see the power behind the new burst-Shot thingy, but yeah the thing needs to be changed to act like a bust-shot, its pretty lack Custer, if that gets a speed up change and what ever the changes people want in here "STO phaser something"
Then that will be great, then might be able to keep my Gun-Slinger build (Duel Pistols)
Tho, I have to admit, Im enjoying the Buffs, Bullet Beat-Down and Holdout Shot has, but this is just the first update, so we got some time until its posted on Live
WoW, Specialist got Beefed with Choices! you can be either Dodge Tank or DPS now! amazing
WAIT! My specialist cannot have both Two-Gun Mojo and Bullet Beatdown now?
Oh well I still have my FF Specialist for this
YES! MORE THEMATIC ENERGY UNLOCKS! NOW WE ARE TALKING
THATS HOW YOU MAKE BUILD DIVERCITY! GIVING OPTIONS
And thats how I detach MSA from 8 Builds... wait... I need to retcon 8 characters
I second the motion, all the MA Archetypes (Blade, Unleashed, Fist , Master, Night Avenger) needs to get updated with that Energy Unlock
Never cared for the Penetrating Damage, I will keep using it for theme and not like certain Individuals who use it as I-Win-Button and going against their character theme (Im looking at you Hercules, Goddess of Light e.t.c)
So TGM is an AoE as well... hmmm
My favorite attack got some love \o/
So now this is an AoE as well?
Hmm Still waiting for a Sword Rain AoE cone attack for Single blade
I am writing in rage right now, knee jerk reaction so I'll admit that and I am not targeting the devs themselves just the changes that I completely disagree with and that is all. So yes incoming rant and for those ready to reply with laughs, enjoy talking to yourself, this is written for the devs to see that I am unhappy with this change so I care not what anyone else wants to tell me on this unless you are offering to try to find ways to make me find some silver lining in this at all.
If I wanted to play the other gun powers I would have taken it for my theme build now it feels like am strong armed into that choice or deal with this *new* TGM... UGH!
Debate me all you want but messing with TGM killed my character. This power was my single target attack and center of my build. I don't care i got a respec for it, I at last had found a game that gives me dual guns and makes it feel ya know like I am a gunner and now that's crushed to dust in my eyes. I play another mmo (well use to play I dropped the sub for co, might regret that now) in that game they gave us guns then turned it into something weaker then a bard and lame, nothing fun gun at all! I know you gave a whole big speech in news about the power adjustment and people raging, so you'll expect this. Telling me to try other powers with ugly animations and messed up my theme build for the sake of making the game feel harder, can you please drop that crap? I am already grinding your stupid insane high SCR tokens and now this??
I don't know what people abused TGM but I know even with this power I got crushed, it is tricky to use cause you screw up your dead (i've died lots) Also as stated TGM was ADJUSTED before and now you took away what made it EVEN worth it! I don't know what your trying to make this harder when I have it hard enough, this build was MY FAV made me happy to play and now... its this... this .... I can't even form words. And those who reply laughing at my rage, do so and don't attempt to understand the reason for this rage. I don't know what op-ness people used, all I know is this power was the center of my build, my single target move and I died lots on this character but loved it cause at last guns that felt like I was doing something then bang *one shot* bang *one shot* boring crap!!
The game is going more team team team and I know there are people who desire this but your hurting us solo folks. I know people will say "why solo if your in an mmo." I can answer that, I play MMO's to talk to people and because I like the game/story/gameplay and can't play single player though honestly someone make a game like co single player only I be on that like no tomorrow but THERE ARE NO GAMES THAT OFFER THESE THINGS! And yes you can tell me to suck it up and play with others, I have no issue with that, I jump in Alerts sometimes for the simple sake of aiding new players or for fun. I team but I enjoy solo time, time to just go through missions and what not for fun and now this is another move toward crushing us solo players it drives me mad. My friend hearing this has quit, and no I don't expect anyone to care, for him this is the straw that broke the camels back and fyi he didn't even paly TGM he was more of a claws player. To him just seeing a power that was FIXED before get undone by new devs for the sake of making game feel harder (or as he sees it answering/making the 1% crowd happy) was end of it for him.
@ladylunamoon - It really isn't hurt all that much. It requires some more energy, but that usually wasn't a problem for 2GM builds anyways. It still is going to be the power of choice for many dpsers. But I understand having your favorite powers messed with always feels like a knife in the side when you already had planned out builds with the previous performance in mind.
Wow, alright lady, clam yourself a little eh?, I mean I know I'm salty over the TGM, change but...GEEZ
I'm not THAT upset, sure it killed my Gun-Slinger build, but I'm adaptable, I can change my thame at free will, both IC and OOC.
If they buff, Burst Shot, and make the changes that players want in its SFX/Visuals, then yes maybe my build or yours in this case, will be saved, I gotta admit, I do't like the changes at all, well thats a lie.
Only thing I dislike about the change is the End-Cost, and the Tier Move placement, if they didn't change any of that, this whuold of been fine.
But I guess this allows me to think of a new cool thame for my new toon, now or even make a new one, we're getting a FREE Recon token, so that shuold be a nice pay-up.
Edit: Uhm, just wanna point out that Im not the "friend" who quit, just in-case someone thinks that..
* The crit chance from Furious is flat crit chance, so it's not subject to DR like it would be as Crit Rating.
* The base damage of the power wasn't touched.
* Willpower is a free heal you didn't have before (which is great for soloing)
* There are two pistol-based AoEs in Munitions now that don't involve flipping or spinning or doing other impractical stuff. (Two Gun Mojo and Burst Shot)
The bad:
* It's more expensive
* If you were leveling a new character, you'd have to wait to get it. (But it sounds like you're already at 40, so you can just retcon around.)
* If you were relying on it solely for single-target damage, you run the risk of hitting things near your intended target. Mitigating this a bit is that they'd have to be directly behind your intended target or beside and within two in-game feet of them, so you can usually solve this by backing up a bit.
It basically traded 10% defense penetration for 5% crit chance and a free heal. That's a decent trade, IMO.
The cost thing could be a problem, but the crit chance buff will help mitigate that if you're using the standard-for-Munitions Killer Instinct unlock.
While I personally don't like it being changed to an AoE, it's still perfectly serviceable as a single-target damage dealing power if there's nothing to hit with the AoE.
Also, Burst Shot's quite good as a debuff, is...decent...as an AoE damage power and has two fairly useful advantages. The "Off your Feat" thing is knockdown, not knockback, at least from my testing (which is infinitely preferable). Might be worth trying.
Not an unqualified silver lining, but I tried.
And if your friend had a camel's back moment, it sounds like he just saw "Two Gun Mojo changes" and stopped reading. This is far from a universal nerf to anything except the cost (and it works better with Killer Instinct in trade).
He should also try Claws with the new AoE Viper's Fangs. It's pretty awesome, you can actually hit multiple things with a still-in-theme attack. I figured hell would freeze over before Fighting Claws got an AoE.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________
The user formerly known as Dr. Sage.
_______________________________
Nyo Ho Ho~ You have no idea how happy I was when I saw that
If it was AoE, you could just focus your specs on AoE powers to make a munitions build. The rest of the cool munition powers are going to be AoE powers - Bullet beatdown, the MA powers the Specialist would have, Frag grenade, Lead tempest, shotgun blast - these are AoE. Unless you want a 2GM/Sniper/Assualt Rifle build, 2GM would preform better classified as an AoE. ATM, they left it classified as a single target with a 2ft cone (1ft for each pistol?), probably because 2ft is the tiniest AoE I've ever heard of.
But if it was classified as an AoE you'd get more synergy from it, and if it only hit one target at a time, you'd actually do less dps.
I agree that it feels a tad too high. It is staggering to use if you don't proc either your form or your EU unless you invested into Int or spec'd high for Cost discount. It isn't REALLY high, but being a bit lower would be better.
As far as the combo revamp: sounds cool, but can we get clarification if, say, Shred, Reaper's Caress, and VF are being flagged as AoE now or not? I imagine the ones w/ CripC adv are staying as ST flagged, but I'm not sure of the intent. Also, in light of this revamp, ya may wanna re-look at melee cone AoE powers again- esp charged ones like Scything Blade that still have a 120-degree cone.
edit- Just did some quick testing w/ the combos:
Bug: Frenzy doesn't seem to be flagged as a combo still- at least its not stacking Grit from Warden Mastery, and not procing Setup from Brawler.
Seems like Frenzy, Blade Tempest, and Cleave are still procing AoE specs; the others w/ AoE cones aren't.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Yeah Closing the Gap needs to change now
The new Two Gun Mojo Energy Cost is TOO MUCH
Please decrease the energy Cost, TGM is not Force Cascade for pete's sake
especially from all the Energy Unlock, Stats and Passives combos people tested with
Don't let it go live like that!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
TGM can get potentially higher optimal dmg now, though, thanks to Burst Shot's debuff and Furious- unless it also got a base dmg loss I that missed (not meaning taking the -10% resist away; burst shot gives back 15% from piercing). Assuming the energy cost can be adjusted to be more in line w/ other Muni maintains, the real 'nerf' to TGM here is the T3 move and needing another power slot to optimize it- but Muni builds were already tight and efficient as is, so that last one isn't so bad.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Oh and don't worry all you Con nuts, Kagami has 288 Dexterity, I'm sure you could easily flip that into Constitution without losing any energy flow. Heck I bet you could tweak it to get even better energy flow than what I got, maybe throw some cost discount mods into your gear ( i still had my gadget mods in my Speed utility primary )
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
*shrug* the extra debuff and crit stacking will help w/ that, but its still prob too many negative changes to one power atm. The base dmg hit should be notified either way.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
PS - 2gm on pts still outdpses the build I have on live, with the exact same stats.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I threw together this quick build and tested it out with Merc gear.
Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)
Powers:
Level 1: Gunslinger
Level 1: Holdout Shot (Rank 2, Stim Pack)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Killer Instinct
Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 17: Lock N Load
Level 20: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Breakaway Shot
Level 26: Fluidity (Rank 2, Flowing Like the River)
I ran in DPS (Avenger) mode with the standard Guardicator specs. Insight from EGO tree helped with energy management.. but 2gm is still pretty costly. I didn't bottom out completely though. 2gm is an aoe beast now.... it crits fast and often and the new buff applies itself very consistently. Clearing out a 5-man hard Demon on this wasn't too difficult.
My only complaint is the energy cost for 2GM -- it needs adjusting down somewhat. But I think I prefer the new 2GM over the old 2GM. It doesn't feel weak at all.. and those wanting defense penetration can go INT primary.. which might also help with energy management.
Overall though it's literally the only attack power you need on a pistol build. Which really isn't that much of a change from before.
1: There's a typo AND bug in the advantages for burst shot, "burst SHot will apply one stack<br.<br" to be precise... and the decirption dosn't change between taking names and off your feat.
2: Moving 2GM to tier 3 would make scense if it was still in it's ols state, in its current state, that's waaay too high a tier, I wouldn't put it higher than tier 2 at the most.
3: the energy cost increase on 2GM is...to be blunt, somewhere between stupid and insane, I mean COME ON, it costs more than bloody lighting arc.
4: it's bullet beatdown, not bullet ballet.
5: Considering the "rush" mechanic from dragon powers, was a MA EU really nessery?
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
2.) New powers are always nice. Particularly thematic EUs.
3.) People are calling it a nerf, but what I'm reading on TGM seems like a net gain. The loss of penetating damage seems nicely mitigated by a heal component. I do think pentetrating damage should still have a place ingame though. Maybe add that onto Sniper Rifle and Focussed Shot? Anyhow, not that bad. I have to respec three builds, but I think I'll manage.
I am very positively inclined towards this balance fix.
4.) Claws can AoE now? FREAKING A!
However some changes made to the Munition Set struck me for a bit.....
TGM no longer deal penetration damage and have it cost increase, this sound like a nerf to it overused nature, which is something I understand, but by giving it a 2ft AOE don't seems right, since many powers within this set are AOE, and TGM is 1 of 2 single target maintain attack in the set, so giving it an AOE component would make it a waste or overlap by other powers from the same set.
But TGM have chances to provide Furious stacks which trigger the advantage of Lead Tempest Advantage instead of Concentration, and also the stacks provide a small HOT when take damage sound neat. I really looking forward to this and see what combination things can turn out on live.
So, the only concern I have is the changes made to TGM, since TGM and AR are the only 2 single target maintain powers in the set that can be select early and both have their own use for either 100ft or 50ft depending on the player styles. Plus with TGM move to tier 3 then power selection at early level will have some difficulty, if not because of Theme Issues then it about left over power.
Then again I can't say how this will reflect my build for my Munition FF, only time and experiment can tell. So keep up the good work,,,,, and let not forget to smile
The new Pistol burst power is lackluster though. I honestly can't see leveling with it..it's not performing well IMHO. The debuff aspect is nice however.
* Please consider giving a free retcon to everyone instead of just people who use 2GM. There have been quite a few power changes which have effected both AT's and FF's these past few months. Allowing everyone a free retcon might be a nice goodwill gesture.. and maybe will calm some people down.
tried it on Anneika , one of my two farmers.
ego/dex/con-dex was highest stat at 260, only end/int/rec is on utility and talents.so 143 energy total. cost discount on utility gear.
overdrive- concentration- Night warrior-
only had an occasional 1 tick stop on spamming it, usually when overdrive wasn't on 3 stacks but then someone pointed out, it wasn't optimized build. *shrug* I don't have to change anything except a prereq to take into acct it's now T3.
Didn't notice much difference in damage either
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Its not a huge deal, but it is a bit odd to redesign the power like that. We've always had LT and Breakaway Shot's AoE, and the new pistol power can also hit >1 target, so I don't see why TGM had to be made into a cylinder power.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
To clarify .. I was thinking the cost of the next respec, with the new system. As each choice will set off an increasing gold cost, not sure of the Devs considered how costly this could get. Especially with the bug of..
Bug: Specialist not able to make power choices! [Not just a respected character]
Where - Respected 1st choice .. wouldn't choose again
- Kept base choice and powered up to 20, next choices didn't work
[Also woken up and got the Concentration thing!]
I now return you to the 2GM thread.
**post test edit
TGMJ sure does cost almost the same energy per maintain as fire all weapons now. That sure is the end of that power while having any health. Yeesh.
Snark never dies.
[Daily Login Rewards] - They sure would spice things up a bit!
[Monthly Rewards and Silver Players] - Surely there should be some way to get them, no matter how difficult!
[Discussion Concerning Event Powers] - Feel like you're missing out on Holy Water? Uh, probably shouldn't.
[Discussion Concerning Energy Stats] - More or less what it says on the tin, there.
[Analysis of Sorcery Copy-Powers] - I showcase some visual chopjobs, and such.
[Analysis of a Poison Spread Bug] - The different interactions Virulent Propagation and Bite has with all poisons.
Are all these balance changes leading to something significant? Do you anticipate many more balance changes? Are there new powersets in our future?
if 2gm had a base damage of 2, that dude would still say it does MORE damage now lol.