When the new Justice Gear came out, I started grinding away on the Rampage that was up at the time. After literally hours of doing this, I had three destreum bearings. Out of the ten that I'd need for a single piece. That was when I did some quick mental math, and decided my children were more important than gearing one lousy toon out of the three dozen I have.
Wait wait wait. Ten? Did they just add new ultra-expensive Justice gear that I don't know about? It takes two tokens (of each type, so eight total) to get one piece; three bearings is fully half of the total bearings needed for a set. And Sky Command is generally the slowest rampage (Lemurian Invasion _can_ be slower, but usually isn't.)
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Oh, there's definitely some hyperbole and overstatement... on both sides. For me, these changes move heroic gear from "A nice thing to do if I'm going to keep playing a character" to "not worth getting, ever". As others have said, if I'm going to do an absurd grind for a set of gear, I'd rather go for Justice or Onslaught pieces.
Oh, so it is the incessant pessimism from the veteran players that will drive the new people away. Yes, I agree.
^ I get it. You don't think anything cryptic just did(Heroics is 3 tiers now lower than the newest gear just an FYI ). Is wrong or counterproductive(despite..I dunno..if I'd have to guess just on percents; 60% in disagreement over these changes).
Despite that; this is wrong. No one can offer a counter-argument so they know this is wrong(other than, 'just play one toon, or waste a month grinding gear that is starter endgame gear), and are either optimistic this'll be good for the game, or just don't care for alt-ing and see this as a change that doesn't affect them, and therefore doesn't warrant attention.
EDIT: If someone here who supports these changes or doesn't see them as counter intuitive can give me 3 good reasons why they believe it as such without stating how they don't alt or how starter endgame gear was too easy to get(this gear is actually(per Devs words) ideal for this new lair). Then i'll yield.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
I'm saying it isn't any reason to give up or stop enjoying the game or tell anyone they shouldn't bother...because it isn't as terrible as most people are making it out to be...
but fine, make assumptions about me and then tell me I'm wrong if that makes you feel better.
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Dunno about that. This new grind will most likely drive away new players.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
The more of the grind i have to do, the less i find myself playing the game these days. I used to devote most of my free time to it but now it's just a fragment where i log in, look at my various currencies and go "meh". Now whenever i play CO, i'm having a mental slideshow of other things i could spend my time on, things that actually bear fruit. I could start a cactus farm, there would be less grind and if things went south i could actually defend myself with a cactus.
I was considering trying out DCUO out of curiosity but that's a moot point since i played CO for the fun of it, not because it was a superhero MMO. Besides almost every MMO i played for a period of time has ended with a bad or disappointing experience, i'm sensing a pattern here. Maybe i should stick to checkers or indian poker.
EDIT: I shouldn't have taken certain forum trolls seriously, it's hard to tell if someone is genuine or not. I should have taken a hint when nobody else responded to them, i can only blame myself
EDIT2: Looking at PTS changes, i see a few nice additions to Archetypes but as far as grind is concerned i only see things getting their price increased instead of the other way around. I can only guess that the person in this thread who noticed the trend of things getting grindier was right. So this is the curtains. Probably. It was fun all the same.
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Dunno about that. This new grind will most likely drive away new players.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Fun story: in NWO, you're just *given* your level 70 starter endgame weapons for completing a quest (that you could complete pre-70 if you wanted to).
Starter endgame gear is just something you're given or get in a few days.
@squirrelloid Interesting I'll check out NWO, i've been curious about the game ever since i learned the details of DDOSing that has been going on It's kind of funny how the damage on CO was just a fracture caused by an attack on something bigger I won't get my hopes up though, it's branded by both PWE and Cryptic The Steam reviews sing the same song as CO does right now
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Dunno about that. This new grind will most likely drive away new players.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Fun story: in NWO, you're just *given* your level 70 starter endgame weapons for completing a quest (that you could complete pre-70 if you wanted to).
Starter endgame gear is just something you're given or get in a few days.
You left a little detail, like how you have to grind to level 70 via area that is designated to that place, and these daily quests are a grindfest. The game was alright at level 60 right until they increase the level cap, made all level 60 armor moot, and gave little alternates to level up your character from level 60 to 70 other than those grindy dailies. You're stuck with blue trash armors until you farm enough tokens in the epic dungeons, assuming you meet the item level requirement. This is the direction that worries me about cryptic and I really hate to see this happening in this game.
That's PWE's general practice And since Cryptic seems to follow that creed... Either way, i have no more reason to lurk around these forums. Cheerio, and godspeed Heroes.
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Dunno about that. This new grind will most likely drive away new players.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Fun story: in NWO, you're just *given* your level 70 starter endgame weapons for completing a quest (that you could complete pre-70 if you wanted to).
Starter endgame gear is just something you're given or get in a few days.
You left a little detail, like how you have to grind to level 70 via area that is designated to that place, and these daily quests are a grindfest. The game was alright at level 60 right until they increase the level cap, made all level 60 armor moot, and gave little alternates to level up your character from level 60 to 70 other than those grindy dailies. You're stuck with blue trash armors until you farm enough tokens in the epic dungeons, assuming you meet the item level requirement. This is the direction that worries me about cryptic and I really hate to see this happening in this game.
I'm not going to say NWO doesn't have problems. It does. But it also does give you your starter endgame weapons (emphasis starter) as a handout for completing a quest. (And its vastly faster to get to that quest and finish it than it is to level from 60 to 70, and the quests along the way give you quite reasonable gear for doing the easier level 70 content too). Oh, they also hand you an endgame chest armor piece for doing the starter quest to Sharandar (easiest epic zone), so that's a third starter endgame gear piece you are basically given on a silver platter shortly after you hit max level.
I rarely had to replay the grindy quests. You do each of the repeatables (actually, you don't even have to do all of them) once, advance to the next stage of the mission chain, do another batch of repeatables, and so on until you finish the zone. Occasionally you'll have to repeat some to catch your level up to the quest level, but by and large it's more of a quest progressions where you *can* go back and replay them. (I strongly recommend being part of a guild so you can get your guild dailies done while doing this too - one of them is worth a good chunk of xp). Now, I did do the last few levels during the double xp weekend we had recently, so it may be a little grindier normally, but certainly not that much.
(The 60-70 areas are like this: There are 4 zones with 3 areas in each zone, each of which starts with 'do 8 of these repeatable quests', then has a couple other quests before sending you to the next area, culminating in a boss fight at the end of the 3rd area. But you can also still productively do normal dungeons and skirmishes, and have Tyranny of Dragons campaign dailies in lower zones to get materials needed to progress the campaign. And i suppose PvP, for people who care about that sort of thing).
Now, once you get to endgame, i really hate epic dungeons. With a passion. Especially pub queue. And starter endgame gear is woefully insufficient for them. *shrug*. NWO is built around a gear climb that actually matters, unlike CO. But that doesn't make Heroic in CO anything but starter endgame gear, and i'd guestimate its about as far below top tier gear (in tiers) as NWO's starter endgame gear. The difference is just starker in terms of balance points. But if CO did something similar, it would be like handing you a heroic gear piece for doing each of your (first) quest completion of Vikorin, Therakiel, and Bronze King - making you 'endgame ready' after having completed the major quest lines.
Also, the easier endgame areas in NWO (sharandar, dread ring) are perfectly playable in the gear you got from the quests from 60 to 70 and the starter endgame weapons you get handed. Icewind Dale and Tyranny of Dragons are pretty rough, but you can gear climb from the areas you can play in. (And there are multiple tiers of endgame gear). And you can progress the Underdark campaign just by doing your dailies in Dread Ring, and can skip right to reasonably top tier gear pretty easily.
(You can pick up farees and demon ichor in the demonic heroic encounters, which you get a daily for in Dread Ring and Icewind Dale, which are the Underdark campaign currencies - enough that you can farm the top tier drow gear and progress the campaign without ever playing the campaign content. And you get elemental seals which let you buy 2nd tier Alliance gear. And the farm needed is arguably less than justice gear, too, especially since you want to do the dailies to progress the Dread Ring campaign anyway, even if you weren't farming gear currencies at the same time).
My big complaint about NWO, besides epic dungeons, is that all the endgame gear is boringly similar. About half the stats never appear on any of it, and it emphasizes stats that not all builds/classes are going to particularly care for. (I'm playing a great weapon fighter, and gear seems to want to hand me boatloads of recovery, which affects cooldowns, despite gwf cooldowns not being terribly long and there being a bunch of other stats they'd much rather have. There's literally like 6 choices for gwf top tier endgame artifact weapons, and all of them have the exact same stats and only differ on set bonus - that's depressingly boring, especially when one of those stats barely helps them)
I think most of you are overreacting and being needlessly pessimistic.
Dunno about that. This new grind will most likely drive away new players.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Fun story: in NWO, you're just *given* your level 70 starter endgame weapons for completing a quest (that you could complete pre-70 if you wanted to).
Starter endgame gear is just something you're given or get in a few days.
You left a little detail, like how you have to grind to level 70 via area that is designated to that place, and these daily quests are a grindfest. The game was alright at level 60 right until they increase the level cap, made all level 60 armor moot, and gave little alternates to level up your character from level 60 to 70 other than those grindy dailies. You're stuck with blue trash armors until you farm enough tokens in the epic dungeons, assuming you meet the item level requirement. This is the direction that worries me about cryptic and I really hate to see this happening in this game.
you forgot the, If you're the wrong class. You can forget about dungeons as you will be booted.
out of morbid curiosity, I just did a count.
we have roughly 2-300 players currently playing.
21 are here complaining, that's roughly 10% of the low end or 8% of the high end.
Why aren't the other 90%+ here complaining too?
Because most of them don't post on the forums? C'mon. If you're going to go down that line then you're making a rod for your own back, as there are definitely more people coming here to complain than there are to praise the changes.
I'm saying it isn't any reason to give up or stop enjoying the game or tell anyone they shouldn't bother...because it isn't as terrible as most people are making it out to be...
but fine, make assumptions about me and then tell me I'm wrong if that makes you feel better.
I'm not making assumptions or placing anything on you, heck, I'm sure your an extremely swell person! It's just, I want to know the basis for your allegations that this isn't bad. For starter gear three(3) tiers lower than the new gear, which is the actual endgame gear.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Thing is though. The playerbase of this game is so small CO "Vets" make up the majority. So if we leave the game is screwed. So to be blunt any "OH YOUR ONLY PESSIMISTIC VETS" arguments are invalid. Because the pessimistic vets are the playerbase.
Either way don't think Cryptic cares. We stay game stays afloat, we leave game dies and Cryptic can justify shutting it and dont need to waste devs on it. From Cryptic's point of view this might be a smart move.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Thing is though. The playerbase of this game is so small CO "Vets" make up the majority. So if we leave the game is screwed. So to be blunt any "OH YOUR ONLY PESSIMISTIC VETS" arguments are invalid. Because the pessimistic vets are the playerbase.
Either way don't think Cryptic cares. We stay game stays afloat, we leave game dies and Cryptic can justify shutting it and dont need to waste devs on it. From Cryptic's point of view this might be a smart move.
True true..though, I think they need to re-evaluate what goes along with a grind that makes it less apparent as so, and subsequently diverts the playerbase as a whole' anger and resentment to said grind. As it stands, they seem to have tried with TA, but ended up in a catch-22. You can't most effectively contribute without Heroics, but you need to grind(unless you've got awesome time/do all the dailies(btw, 5 SCR comes from the lair , for those who say to do all the dailies and get heroics in a week)) A month to make it happen(for each piece).
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
From a design standpoint, the catch-22 with the Lair is probably making something challenging for a bunch of nigh invincible characters in a hybrid action game freeform experiment that has had a lot of broken power creep over it's life's course. Basically the reason there are party wipe shenanigans.
You can't most effectively contribute without Heroics.
This... really isn't true. Better gear is, of course, better, but there's no magic threshold below which you suddenly can't contribute any more, and the difference between Heroics and, say, Mercenary or Vikorin gear just isn't all that large. If you couldn't get through TA, it's probably not because of your gear. It's because TA has a whole bunch of mechanics that are going to kill you bunches and lots until you figure them out.
A concern I have with the SCR price hike for Heroics is its possible effect on the AH, that the perception of them simply taking a longer time to obtain would potentially bloat up their worth and prices more than necessary. It's not like Heroics are actually being buffed or anything. I haven't checked up on how much people are selling Heroics for but not too long ago they seemed to be offered at reasonable prices for getting the gear instantly as an alternative to grinding for the tokens.
I'm not buying the argument that because there are many ways to get SCR tokens outside of UNITY, that justifies the price hike. Heroic gear is perceived as the entry level gear for a level 40 so naturally they would be the easiest and quickest to get as compared to the higher quality, harder-to-obtain level-40 only gear. The grind involved in the numerous ways to get the tokens even before the hike seem to come off as acceptable to get what is simply entry level gear even if its level 40 only. Increasing the price just makes them needlessly longer and harder to obtain for no real beneficial reason since after all and once again, Heroics aren't being buffed.
And yeah I know it's not absolutely necessary to have Heroic gear. Technically you can get through a lot of the game's content with just green gear, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere between just being happy with common gear and being expected to perform at your very best with some level of efficiency, especially when in a team.
Total 19 def, 68 offense, 11 crit, 21 cd, 11 cost reduction. Not useless by any means, but not godly either.
TA is the kind of content that gives the player every reason to bring their A-game in terms of build and gear, so while Merc gear is still "usable" despite having slightly weaker stats, the baseline still seems to be Heroic gear, as remarked by Arkayne.
Some of you no doubt don't care for what I have to say. I will however, repeat that I did say (in Zone chat) before these changes came about, that these changes were being made so to change the perception of Heroic gear to being less "essential" gear as it used to be. These changes were intended to drive more cash sales and incur more pvp, as there is equipment now available as rewards for doing pvp. I did read through all the posts on this thread, but I found no mention that Heroic gear can now be purchased with acclaim. Seventy-five thousand per piece. That should make you pvpers so happy. I think I've mentioned before how I feel about pvp, and how I dislike it being forced upon anyone who doesn't wish to partake in it, especially myself. I've also heard it mentioned that if I don't like it, that I could go elsewhere. Well, it looks as if you may be getting your wish. I had hoped that I could get across to more people that it was essential as human beings to learn to communicate and get along with each other inside of the game. It was my point that the pvp mindset does not foster friendly communication and genuine caring amoungst the community members, since in pvp there is always a 'winner' and a 'loser'. But we all know how much 'fun' pvp is, especially when you really don't care for killing fellow players even in a symbolic manner.
I had come to Champions Online from six years of playing Dungeons & Dragons Online, tired of the lack of customisability for individual characters and the lack of ways to get game objects without spending cash. I was amazed back in September of 2012 that I could farm as much questionite as I wanted to get virtually anything I wanted. I did. Now that's gone. I have to wait for my once a month allowance so I can buy a minimum of items. Now this.
Back in December 2003, Sony posted in the forums that they had 'big changes' planned and that we would 'love' them tremendously. This was the New Game Enhancements that caused over three quarters of the population at the time to leave the game, along with their multiple accounts. It took several years for Sony to admit that this was a terrible error on their part.
Lesson Learned. Never believe a corporation when they tell you that you will 'love' something. This only means that they love it, because they know already what they're going to subject you to and you will have to either 'love' it too, or leave.
Second Lesson: Corporations never admit they are wrong when they can still screw you over.
Now that my altaholism is tragically curbed, I feel that I don't really have any alternative but to go elsewhere for my gaming fix. It just makes me feel too sad that I cannot just dream up a build and make it work like I've been doing for the past four years and eight pages of characters. *sigh* I did read through this post:http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/the-destructive-legacy-of-blizzards-world-of-warcraft/ I feel that there are lots of parallels here.
A concern I have with the SCR price hike for Heroics is its possible effect on the AH, that the perception of them simply taking a longer time to obtain would potentially bloat up their worth and prices more than necessary. It's not like Heroics are actually being buffed or anything. I haven't checked up on how much people are selling Heroics for but not too long ago they seemed to be offered at reasonable prices for getting the gear instantly as an alternative to grinding for the tokens.
Supply and demand will increase Heroic prices, but there is only so much someone is willing to pay (due to alternatives above and below as well as the grind itself), and with the fact PvPers will be looking to liquidate often enough, they'll be available on the AH somewhere below Legion (which are still a bit cheaper due to the lockbox spam so recently).
and with the fact PvPers will be looking to liquidate often enough.
75,000 acclaim is actually extremely expensive; heroic being available with acclaim is not going to meaningfully move the market. With greater SCR availability, I'd expect prices to stabilize around 2G/1SCR, or 300G for heroics.
I don't know why you're blaming PvP for anything. It's all the same crap that's always been there except now you can grind for Heroic gear too.
Part of the grind is probably to give players stuff to occupy themselves since not even Blizzard can keep up with content demands.
Didn't bother reading the whole article because some of the stuff they're blaming WoW for is actually issues from modern society. Some of the stuff in there is just stupid. Plus, the author can't do basic math.
I know i said i wouldn't post anymore, but this is the last, i promise. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Third day of not playing CO and i feel great. It's like getting out of an abusive relationship. No need to worry about gears, levels, alts, whatnots, and especially no need to worry about what greedy, catatonic devs will come up with next. Since fully opening my eyes to how Cryptic and PWE do things, i made sure to remove any positive reviews i made and "fixed them", so to speak. (I can hear spinny whining in the distance that nobody cares about my opinion, but at least i'm Steam influential enough to have made at least 6 people quit so far. Not daily players, but still. That's already a solid % of the overall playerbase. Friends don't let friends waste their time) At this point, even if they made Heroics FREE i still wouldn't come back. It's like that pill from Matrix, you realize that instead of a bubbly fairyland, you were trapped in a gooey pod where... well... you were being fed your own excrement.
I feel no sympathy for trolls, i feel great sympathy for people who are being hurt by continuous nerfs but can't seem to quit the game. Hang in there, guys. My paradigm shift aside, i still feel your pain. And trust me on this - this is not the first PWE related game i played regularly. As soon as PWE is involved, it's best to jump the ship instantly because that's how they work, they slowly rot the game from the inside. And Cryptic themselves adopted the same creed, using "new content" as a smokescreen to hide their true intentions - milking the game until it dies. If people keep playing - Cryptic wins because naive people keep giving them money. If people stop playing - Cryptic wins because they don't have to pretend to put effort into CO anymore, fire a few people, close the shop and smoke a cigar.
Whether you agree or not, there is no point in replying to this post, i won't see the reply. I'm just going to modify the primary post and clear out of here - and out of anything PWE/Cryptic/CO related as fast as possible.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Personally I believe the exact opposite. I believe it'll affect new players the most. We're no more in the 90s when spending 3 months to farm gears was the norm. Nowadays kids want their gears now, in less than 1 week. I don't believe they're going to like to spend 3 weeks repeating the same Alerts to get their primary gearset.
(...) These changes were intended to drive more cash sales (...)
I doubt so. SCR are not available in lockboxes so PWE earns 0 dollar, not even 0.01 penny per SCR so I don't think they care if we need 3 days or 3 weeks to farm something they earn 0 dollar on it. They care more to sell lockboxes and the new Aurum gearset too.
I Whether you agree or not, there is no point in replying to this post, i won't see the reply. I'm just going to modify the primary post and clear out of here - and out of anything PWE/Cryptic/CO related as fast as possible.
Papa Bless
I'll believe when you delete this account, as well as your game account.
I Whether you agree or not, there is no point in replying to this post, i won't see the reply. I'm just going to modify the primary post and clear out of here - and out of anything PWE/Cryptic/CO related as fast as possible.
Papa Bless
I'll believe when you delete this account, as well as your game account.
Quite. You'll be back, emp - if you didn't like the game to start with, you wouldn't have been so peeved by this increase, you'd have just quit and we'd never have heard from you again. (Much like the way I myself left both WoW and SWTOR - no fuss, no dramatic "goodbye" posts online, just uninstalled and never looked back.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The idea is that if it takes as long to get low tier end game gear as to get the higher end stuff players will go for the higher end stuff, even it there is some actual cash (or grinding for Q to buy zen) involved.
(...) These changes were intended to drive more cash sales (...)
I doubt so. SCR are not available in lockboxes so PWE earns 0 dollar, not even 0.01 penny per SCR so I don't think they care if we need 3 days or 3 weeks to farm something they earn 0 dollar on it. They care more to sell lockboxes and the new Aurum gearset too.
Quite. You'll be back, emp - if you didn't like the game to start with, you wouldn't have been so peeved by this increase, you'd have just quit and we'd never have heard from you again. (Much like the way I myself left both WoW and SWTOR - no fuss, no dramatic "goodbye" posts online, just uninstalled and never looked back.)
That is how I left DDO and DCUO. No post, nothin. Just uninstalled.
On NWN2, I had a bit of a slow fadeaway, with some goodbyes. Granted, I was a dev on a persistent world, and I had friends there, too. Still, once I made the actual goodbye, uninstall and gone.
Quite. You'll be back, emp - if you didn't like the game to start with, you wouldn't have been so peeved by this increase, you'd have just quit and we'd never have heard from you again. (Much like the way I myself left both WoW and SWTOR - no fuss, no dramatic "goodbye" posts online, just uninstalled and never looked back.)
That is how I left DDO and DCUO. No post, nothin. Just uninstalled.
On NWN2, I had a bit of a slow fadeaway, with some goodbyes. Granted, I was a dev on a persistent world, and I had friends there, too. Still, once I made the actual goodbye, uninstall and gone.
I think they did.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
I think it'll affect new players the least. Most MMO players know that level cap gear isn't something you get in just a few days, and others wouldn't know the difference anyway.
Personally I believe the exact opposite. I believe it'll affect new players the most. We're no more in the 90s when spending 3 months to farm gears was the norm. Nowadays kids want their gears now, in less than 1 week. I don't believe they're going to like to spend 3 weeks repeating the same Alerts to get their primary gearset.
(...) These changes were intended to drive more cash sales (...)
I doubt so. SCR are not available in lockboxes so PWE earns 0 dollar, not even 0.01 penny per SCR so I don't think they care if we need 3 days or 3 weeks to farm something they earn 0 dollar on it. They care more to sell lockboxes and the new Aurum gearset too.
Also, with now not being the 90s, gamers have other games they can play and they don't even have to buy the box to do it.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
We're no more in the 90s when spending 3 months to farm gears was the norm.
Correct, we're in CO, where that's still not the norm. 3 months? lol. hyperbole has clearly run amok.
I'm glad emperornf has quit, and to anyone with his perception of the game as "an abusive relationship" I encourage you to do the same. If you're not having fun playing a video game... heck, if you have any negative feelings associated with a game at all, stop playing it. Your duty as a gamer begins and ends at "having fun" and if anything other than that is happening to you when you fire up a game then you're doing it to yourself. There is nothing tying you to this game other than your choice to be here. Any money you have spent became a sunk cost the moment you spent it, you'll never get it back no matter how much you torture yourself - in fact, you spent that money for something fun, so if you're not having fun then it's impossible to get any return... if anything, you're getting the opposite, like buying food and then starving yourself while the food goes bad.
Population numbers, revenue, advertising, etc etc... none of it matters. Are you having fun? No? Stop playing. It really just is that simple. Go ahead and give your reasons to think otherwise, but we both know that you're just trying to convince yourself.
If you choose to continue playing and it makes you unhappy, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Everything making you unhappy is coming from you.
PS - as an aside, complaining on the forums endlessly but continuing to play the game only sends the message that you're you're having fun - remember how actions speak louder than words? I've known plenty of people who curse dark souls up and down, but they play it like they have a physical addiction. If you really want to send the message that you're dissatisfied then stop posting, and stop playing. You wanna know what a game that's really in trouble looks like? Abandoned forums, abandoned servers.
The idea is that if it takes as long to get low tier end game gear as to get the higher end stuff players will go for the higher end stuff, even it there is some actual cash (or grinding for Q to buy zen) involved.
I hear you and it might certainly happen this way. Although about the idea itself, I'll stick to devs' intention : make it harder to get heroic gearset and nothing more. The collateral consequence may be that players would prefer to zap Heroic gears and go straight for Legion but PWE still earns 0 dollar per SCR. This is why noone cares if we like or dislike this 420% grind inflation. It's not going to affect the sales, not directly, however the way this 420% inflation is forced out of context and with disrespect for the playerbase's gameplay habits may certainly have an indirect negative impact on sales (less players, less sales).
New players aren't going to know the diffirence and as far as grinds go it could be a lot grindier.
So in other words...
They will ask in zone is this game super grindy? People will now say "YES" and they will leave.
Yes, some people are that easily influenced aren't they? It's cute. Most gamers on the other hand are more sensible and know not to rely on zone chat for anything ever
From a design standpoint, the catch-22 with the Lair is probably making something challenging for a bunch of nigh invincible characters in a hybrid action game freeform experiment that has had a lot of broken power creep over it's life's course. Basically the reason there are party wipe shenanigans.
Total 19 def, 68 offense, 11 crit, 21 cd, 11 cost reduction. Not useless by any means, but not godly either.
TA is the kind of content that gives the player every reason to bring their A-game in terms of build and gear, so while Merc gear is still "usable" despite having slightly weaker stats, the baseline still seems to be Heroic gear, as remarked by Arkayne.
This. Oh, and i'm not gonna stop saying it until y'all acknowledge the ignorance of this change in regards to this gear: Heroics is 3 tiers lower than the new gear, but you have to work just as hard to get it
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
75,000 acclaim is actually extremely expensive; heroic being available with acclaim is not going to meaningfully move the market. With greater SCR availability, I'd expect prices to stabilize around 2G/1SCR, or 300G for heroics.
Yeah but what else is it going to be spent on? And Acclaim has been building up on a lot of toons for years with next to no drainage. I have almost that amount just doing some ZAs like a bazillion years ago.
Comments
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
So in other words...
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yes, I agree.
I get it. You don't think anything cryptic just did(Heroics is 3 tiers now lower than the newest gear just an FYI
Despite that; this is wrong. No one can offer a counter-argument so they know this is wrong(other than, 'just play one toon, or waste a month grinding gear that is starter endgame gear), and are either optimistic this'll be good for the game, or just don't care for alt-ing and see this as a change that doesn't affect them, and therefore doesn't warrant attention.
EDIT: If someone here who supports these changes or doesn't see them as counter intuitive can give me 3 good reasons why they believe it as such without stating how they don't alt or how starter endgame gear was too easy to get(this gear is actually(per Devs words) ideal for this new lair). Then i'll yield.
42 40s, LTSer.
but fine, make assumptions about me and then tell me I'm wrong if that makes you feel better.
I was considering trying out DCUO out of curiosity but that's a moot point since i played CO for the fun of it, not because it was a superhero MMO. Besides almost every MMO i played for a period of time has ended with a bad or disappointing experience, i'm sensing a pattern here. Maybe i should stick to checkers or indian poker.
EDIT: I shouldn't have taken certain forum trolls seriously, it's hard to tell if someone is genuine or not. I should have taken a hint when nobody else responded to them, i can only blame myself
EDIT2: Looking at PTS changes, i see a few nice additions to Archetypes but as far as grind is concerned i only see things getting their price increased instead of the other way around. I can only guess that the person in this thread who noticed the trend of things getting grindier was right.
So this is the curtains. Probably. It was fun all the same.
Starter endgame gear is just something you're given or get in a few days.
Interesting
I'll check out NWO, i've been curious about the game ever since i learned the details of DDOSing that has been going on
It's kind of funny how the damage on CO was just a fracture caused by an attack on something bigger
I won't get my hopes up though, it's branded by both PWE and Cryptic
The Steam reviews sing the same song as CO does right now
And since Cryptic seems to follow that creed...
Either way, i have no more reason to lurk around these forums. Cheerio, and godspeed Heroes.
I rarely had to replay the grindy quests. You do each of the repeatables (actually, you don't even have to do all of them) once, advance to the next stage of the mission chain, do another batch of repeatables, and so on until you finish the zone. Occasionally you'll have to repeat some to catch your level up to the quest level, but by and large it's more of a quest progressions where you *can* go back and replay them. (I strongly recommend being part of a guild so you can get your guild dailies done while doing this too - one of them is worth a good chunk of xp). Now, I did do the last few levels during the double xp weekend we had recently, so it may be a little grindier normally, but certainly not that much.
(The 60-70 areas are like this: There are 4 zones with 3 areas in each zone, each of which starts with 'do 8 of these repeatable quests', then has a couple other quests before sending you to the next area, culminating in a boss fight at the end of the 3rd area. But you can also still productively do normal dungeons and skirmishes, and have Tyranny of Dragons campaign dailies in lower zones to get materials needed to progress the campaign. And i suppose PvP, for people who care about that sort of thing).
Now, once you get to endgame, i really hate epic dungeons. With a passion. Especially pub queue. And starter endgame gear is woefully insufficient for them. *shrug*. NWO is built around a gear climb that actually matters, unlike CO. But that doesn't make Heroic in CO anything but starter endgame gear, and i'd guestimate its about as far below top tier gear (in tiers) as NWO's starter endgame gear. The difference is just starker in terms of balance points. But if CO did something similar, it would be like handing you a heroic gear piece for doing each of your (first) quest completion of Vikorin, Therakiel, and Bronze King - making you 'endgame ready' after having completed the major quest lines.
Also, the easier endgame areas in NWO (sharandar, dread ring) are perfectly playable in the gear you got from the quests from 60 to 70 and the starter endgame weapons you get handed. Icewind Dale and Tyranny of Dragons are pretty rough, but you can gear climb from the areas you can play in. (And there are multiple tiers of endgame gear). And you can progress the Underdark campaign just by doing your dailies in Dread Ring, and can skip right to reasonably top tier gear pretty easily.
(You can pick up farees and demon ichor in the demonic heroic encounters, which you get a daily for in Dread Ring and Icewind Dale, which are the Underdark campaign currencies - enough that you can farm the top tier drow gear and progress the campaign without ever playing the campaign content. And you get elemental seals which let you buy 2nd tier Alliance gear. And the farm needed is arguably less than justice gear, too, especially since you want to do the dailies to progress the Dread Ring campaign anyway, even if you weren't farming gear currencies at the same time).
My big complaint about NWO, besides epic dungeons, is that all the endgame gear is boringly similar. About half the stats never appear on any of it, and it emphasizes stats that not all builds/classes are going to particularly care for. (I'm playing a great weapon fighter, and gear seems to want to hand me boatloads of recovery, which affects cooldowns, despite gwf cooldowns not being terribly long and there being a bunch of other stats they'd much rather have. There's literally like 6 choices for gwf top tier endgame artifact weapons, and all of them have the exact same stats and only differ on set bonus - that's depressingly boring, especially when one of those stats barely helps them)
you forgot the, If you're the wrong class. You can forget about dungeons as you will be booted.
out of morbid curiosity, I just did a count.
we have roughly 2-300 players currently playing.
21 are here complaining, that's roughly 10% of the low end or 8% of the high end.
Why aren't the other 90%+ here complaining too?
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
But hey, it ain't so bad here, ya know...dose udder games are worse...and kids are starving in Africa...I'm happy with my guv'ment cheese...
42 40s, LTSer.
Had a retired neighbor that would occasionally share it. It made the best grilled cheese.
So to be blunt any "OH YOUR ONLY PESSIMISTIC VETS" arguments are invalid. Because the pessimistic vets are the playerbase.
Either way don't think Cryptic cares. We stay game stays afloat, we leave game dies and Cryptic can justify shutting it and dont need to waste devs on it. From Cryptic's point of view this might be a smart move.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
42 40s, LTSer.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I'm not buying the argument that because there are many ways to get SCR tokens outside of UNITY, that justifies the price hike. Heroic gear is perceived as the entry level gear for a level 40 so naturally they would be the easiest and quickest to get as compared to the higher quality, harder-to-obtain level-40 only gear. The grind involved in the numerous ways to get the tokens even before the hike seem to come off as acceptable to get what is simply entry level gear even if its level 40 only. Increasing the price just makes them needlessly longer and harder to obtain for no real beneficial reason since after all and once again, Heroics aren't being buffed.
And yeah I know it's not absolutely necessary to have Heroic gear. Technically you can get through a lot of the game's content with just green gear, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere between just being happy with common gear and being expected to perform at your very best with some level of efficiency, especially when in a team.
Merc Precision: 3 slots, 17 def, 84 crit. Hero Precision: 3 slots, 19 def, 68 offense, 95 crit. Net gain: 2 def, 68 offense, 11 crit.
Merc Defense: 3 slots, 34 defense. Hero Defense: 3 slots, 49 defense. Net gain: 15 def.
Merc Speed: 3 slots, 17 def, 165 cd, 82 cost. Hero speed: 3 slots, 19 def, 186 cd, 93 cost. Net gain: 2 def, 21 cd, 11 cost.
Total 19 def, 68 offense, 11 crit, 21 cd, 11 cost reduction. Not useless by any means, but not godly either.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I had come to Champions Online from six years of playing Dungeons & Dragons Online, tired of the lack of customisability for individual characters and the lack of ways to get game objects without spending cash. I was amazed back in September of 2012 that I could farm as much questionite as I wanted to get virtually anything I wanted. I did. Now that's gone. I have to wait for my once a month allowance so I can buy a minimum of items. Now this.
Back in December 2003, Sony posted in the forums that they had 'big changes' planned and that we would 'love' them tremendously. This was the New Game Enhancements that caused over three quarters of the population at the time to leave the game, along with their multiple accounts. It took several years for Sony to admit that this was a terrible error on their part.
Lesson Learned. Never believe a corporation when they tell you that you will 'love' something. This only means that they love it, because they know already what they're going to subject you to and you will have to either 'love' it too, or leave.
Second Lesson: Corporations never admit they are wrong when they can still screw you over.
Now that my altaholism is tragically curbed, I feel that I don't really have any alternative but to go elsewhere for my gaming fix. It just makes me feel too sad that I cannot just dream up a build and make it work like I've been doing for the past four years and eight pages of characters. *sigh*
I did read through this post:http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/the-destructive-legacy-of-blizzards-world-of-warcraft/
I feel that there are lots of parallels here.
Pax Vobiscum
~Amii~
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Part of the grind is probably to give players stuff to occupy themselves since not even Blizzard can keep up with content demands.
Didn't bother reading the whole article because some of the stuff they're blaming WoW for is actually issues from modern society. Some of the stuff in there is just stupid. Plus, the author can't do basic math.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Poll: Currencies like GCR should be account-bound or there should be a method to transfer between toons
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Third day of not playing CO and i feel great. It's like getting out of an abusive relationship. No need to worry about gears, levels, alts, whatnots, and especially no need to worry about what greedy, catatonic devs will come up with next. Since fully opening my eyes to how Cryptic and PWE do things, i made sure to remove any positive reviews i made and "fixed them", so to speak.
(I can hear spinny whining in the distance that nobody cares about my opinion, but at least i'm Steam influential enough to have made at least 6 people quit so far. Not daily players, but still. That's already a solid % of the overall playerbase. Friends don't let friends waste their time)
At this point, even if they made Heroics FREE i still wouldn't come back. It's like that pill from Matrix, you realize that instead of a bubbly fairyland, you were trapped in a gooey pod where... well... you were being fed your own excrement.
I feel no sympathy for trolls, i feel great sympathy for people who are being hurt by continuous nerfs but can't seem to quit the game. Hang in there, guys. My paradigm shift aside, i still feel your pain. And trust me on this - this is not the first PWE related game i played regularly. As soon as PWE is involved, it's best to jump the ship instantly because that's how they work, they slowly rot the game from the inside. And Cryptic themselves adopted the same creed, using "new content" as a smokescreen to hide their true intentions - milking the game until it dies. If people keep playing - Cryptic wins because naive people keep giving them money. If people stop playing - Cryptic wins because they don't have to pretend to put effort into CO anymore, fire a few people, close the shop and smoke a cigar.
Whether you agree or not, there is no point in replying to this post, i won't see the reply. I'm just going to modify the primary post and clear out of here - and out of anything PWE/Cryptic/CO related as fast as possible.
Papa Bless
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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On NWN2, I had a bit of a slow fadeaway, with some goodbyes. Granted, I was a dev on a persistent world, and I had friends there, too. Still, once I made the actual goodbye, uninstall and gone.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
42 40s, LTSer.
I'm glad emperornf has quit, and to anyone with his perception of the game as "an abusive relationship" I encourage you to do the same. If you're not having fun playing a video game... heck, if you have any negative feelings associated with a game at all, stop playing it. Your duty as a gamer begins and ends at "having fun" and if anything other than that is happening to you when you fire up a game then you're doing it to yourself. There is nothing tying you to this game other than your choice to be here. Any money you have spent became a sunk cost the moment you spent it, you'll never get it back no matter how much you torture yourself - in fact, you spent that money for something fun, so if you're not having fun then it's impossible to get any return... if anything, you're getting the opposite, like buying food and then starving yourself while the food goes bad.
Population numbers, revenue, advertising, etc etc... none of it matters. Are you having fun? No? Stop playing. It really just is that simple. Go ahead and give your reasons to think otherwise, but we both know that you're just trying to convince yourself.
If you choose to continue playing and it makes you unhappy, then you have no one to blame but yourself. Everything making you unhappy is coming from you.
PS - as an aside, complaining on the forums endlessly but continuing to play the game only sends the message that you're you're having fun - remember how actions speak louder than words? I've known plenty of people who curse dark souls up and down, but they play it like they have a physical addiction. If you really want to send the message that you're dissatisfied then stop posting, and stop playing. You wanna know what a game that's really in trouble looks like? Abandoned forums, abandoned servers.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Heroics is 3 tiers lower than the new gear, but you have to work just as hard to get it
42 40s, LTSer.