I mean that, what you said about being bored of bash, that duels are lame and about the kick bug.. Not much we can do about those things. We've been putting up with that crap for a long time. Square one.
(used to indicate a person, thing, idea, state, event, time, remark, etc., as pointed out or present, mentioned before, supposed to be understood, or by way of emphasis)
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well, a suggestion I think that could have good results would be for us to actually queue for the Hero Games. I usually queue for them each time that I am on and see little to no one queued, but that doesn't stop me from queuing up. If all the people who write in the hero games section of this forum queued for the hero games regularly without being prompted, that would be a good start to making the hero games more active.
Also, advertisement works a lot too. I have been the only one queued for Zombie Apocalypse and gotten new people to try it and make the queue pop. Most enjoy it and are thankful for being introduced to a part of the game they had never done before. These new people are discouraged by the queues looking so deserted as well. If we all would just queue, it would encourage others to queue too.
Of course a drawback could be the issue with the kick bug which may frustrate newcomers, but I think if the Devs see that people actually play the hero games regularly/want to play them by seeing their activities in-game and are not just on the forums complaining about the hero games, they may feel it more pressing to fix bugs having to do with the hero games. Kinda a catch 22 situation, but we can break the cycle if we really want to.
The queuing up without being prompted part is really easy and we all can do that, but I know the advertisement part could be a little daunting for some, especially since there is no guarantee that it will work, and it definitely has not worked for me 100% of the time, but just don't get discouraged if it doesn't work. The state of the hero games will get better :biggrin:
One more thing I think that could help the hero games would be to help fight misconceptions about the hero games and to also give people updated information that may make them feel differently about the hero games.
One particularly controversial topic that comes to mind, would be the issue of devices.
Even in this thread, there was a heated discussion about devices where I think the points were made, but just maybe not in a way that the person could be very receptive of what was being said.
Here are a couple of points about Devices that I bring up when someone says they don't want to participate in the hero games because of them or even worse, that they have something against device users in general:
1. Devices are just another way to customize your character even further. In this way, I would liken them to specializations. Devices can be used by anyone to fit a theme, be more efficient, etc.
2. There was a time when devices(specifically the legacy devices) could (and would) be exploited, but that time is over. The Devs released an update quite a while ago now that put devices in check, so there is really no need for device hate nor discrimination against device users any longer.
I have talked to people against devices in-game and I have at least gotten some of them to soften their positions on the subject. Doing this more could get more exclusive duelers to start queuing for the hero games.
If we all do our part, I know we can make things a lot more active in the hero games. :redface:
One good way would ban Mind AT's that just get in the way of a good BASH fight with bizzario attempts at sniping :P
Different people have different play styles. I think it would be a good thing to encourage people with different builds to join the hero games and to not be discouraged if they lose a lot at first especially to more experienced PvPers. Heck,there may be certain combos that will defeat you most of the time, but that shouldn't be a reason to abandon a build you really like and enjoy playing or to abandon the hero games in general. At least this is how I feel about it.
Optimize the build that you like and play how you like playing should be stressed I think.:redface:
I think I have echoed quite a bit of what you have said, only with a more serious tone and a little more exposition.
Or maybe I'm just long winded and you were short and concise.
Whichever packaging you prefer, the present inside is still the same.
A lot of the time people have similar thoughts and ideas, but just different ways of expressing themselves and also different ways of processing information. Sometimes it just takes an idea being expressed in a different way for some to get it. :redface:
I think I have echoed quite a bit of what you have said, only with a more serious tone and a little more exposition.
Or maybe I'm just long winded and you were short and concise.
Whichever packaging you prefer, the present inside is still the same.
A lot of the time people have similar thoughts and ideas, but just different ways of expressing themselves and also different ways of processing information. Sometimes it just takes an idea being expressed in a different way for some to get it. :redface:
Well, a suggestion I think that could have good results would be for us to actually queue for the Hero Games. I usually queue for them each time that I am on and see little to no one queued, but that doesn't stop me from queuing up. If all the people who write in the hero games section of this forum queued for the hero games regularly without being prompted, that would be a good start to making the hero games more active.
Also, advertisement works a lot too. I have been the only one queued for Zombie Apocalypse and gotten new people to try it and make the queue pop. Most enjoy it and are thankful for being introduced to a part of the game they had never done before. These new people are discouraged by the queues looking so deserted as well. If we all would just queue, it would encourage others to queue too.
Of course a drawback could be the issue with the kick bug which may frustrate newcomers, but I think if the Devs see that people actually play the hero games regularly/want to play them by seeing their activities in-game and are not just on the forums complaining about the hero games, they may feel it more pressing to fix bugs having to do with the hero games. Kinda a catch 22 situation, but we can break the cycle if we really want to.
The queuing up without being prompted part is really easy and we all can do that, but I know the advertisement part could be a little daunting for some, especially since there is no guarantee that it will work, and it definitely has not worked for me 100% of the time, but just don't get discouraged if it doesn't work. The state of the hero games will get better :biggrin:
One more thing I think that could help the hero games would be to help fight misconceptions about the hero games and to also give people updated information that may make them feel differently about the hero games.
One particularly controversial topic that comes to mind, would be the issue of devices.
Even in this thread, there was a heated discussion about devices where I think the points were made, but just maybe not in a way that the person could be very receptive of what was being said.
Here are a couple of points about Devices that I bring up when someone says they don't want to participate in the hero games because of them or even worse, that they have something against device users in general:
1. Devices are just another way to customize your character even further. In this way, I would liken them to specializations. Devices can be used by anyone to fit a theme, be more efficient, etc.
2. There was a time when devices(specifically the legacy devices) could (and would) be exploited, but that time is over. The Devs released an update quite a while ago now that put devices in check, so there is really no need for device hate nor discrimination against device users any longer.
I have talked to people against devices in-game and I have at least gotten some of them to soften their positions on the subject. Doing this more could get more exclusive duelers to start queuing for the hero games.
If we all do our part, I know we can make things a lot more active in the hero games. :redface:
First off, i would like to say that was a great read. You touched on many parts that concern me and my friends when it comes to hero games.
Yes, i was part of that heated discussion. I felt it didn't need to be that heated.
You said you encounter people not wanting to que hero games because of devices. Yes , this happens a lot. Even in duels. More than half the people ask for a pure fight (No Devices) to see who can best who without someone saying "You won because you had an unfair advantage" it eliminates that outright.
Also, i see your point about adding spice to your toon by using devices. There are people like me. And i guess those you have encountered that don't use devices. And don't want to use them (In pvp) I as well as a lot of my friends would love for there to be a device free que.
From the people I've talked to, it would pop big time, imho. Getting those we spoke of earlier just into trying hero games again or maybe for the fist time, could bring in a whole new set of players. Those that use devices would not be affected, as that que would remain intact!
Even more so, I'm sure some of those people would slide on over now and then and get the unlimited que popping as well!
This is nothing but a dream as Cryptic has done nothing to help or change pvp, ever it seems.
I commend you for trying to get people involved however. And i see your point as far as incorporating devices. There are just so many people out there with so many different ways to build a toon and what it means to them... i just wish Cryptic had more options for every kind of player.
Thanks again for a very good and open minded post.
Legacy devices share a cool down now. No devices can be exploited. All work as intended. So my question is why you are against them?
"Because people use them against me and I die and I don't like that"
OH WHATS THAT? DONT MIND ME UUUUBTREE IM JUST DAYDREAMING ABOUT A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE ARE HONEST ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS AND NOT SO DAMN TSUNDERE ABOUT PVP.
Also I'm typing in caps because you still haven't taken off your shirt and dance DONT YOU CARE ABOUT PVP???
It's a legitimate question to ask seeing as how this guy is dead set against them without giving any reason whatsoever. I even asked nicely. I hope he answers.
But I have the sneaking suspicion that he's ignoring me. Some folk only respond when being trolled.
Probably the same reason most people give, minus the obvious one of "I don't like getting blown up in one shot by a device that does more damage at a click than the majority of actual powers" o3o
The irony is that more devices would actually solve a whole chunk of the issue. Like, not everyone's theme involves throwing a chunk of rock, or throwing a ice bomb, or doing whatever it is that the invincibility one has as a graphic, so you run into situations like "Okay I am a fire hero, I only have fire powers, I am a cool fire guy... except in pvp where I throw chunks of rock and chuck exploding ice... sad faece " <--- that's why "devices as an additional method of customization" currently doesn't work.
So if they just released a bunch more devices that have similarly powerful effects but have many more different graphics, then everyone could use devices and still stick to their theme! So long as there is liberal use of shared cooldowns it won't create a huge amount of power creep, and they could even pass it off as a "level cap increase without the need to level up" and have a new thing for people to dump money into, and also just think of all the funny "this game is pay2win" posts we'll get to see!
I am genius, Cryptic should hire o3o I will work for minimum wage.
I'm not sure if any of that is what that person would have answered with, I'm just guessing.
The irony is that more devices would actually solve a whole chunk of the issue. Like, not everyone's theme involves throwing a chunk of rock, or throwing a ice bomb, or doing whatever it is that the invincibility one has as a graphic, so you run into situations like "Okay I am a fire hero, I only have fire powers, I am a cool fire guy... except in pvp where I throw chunks of rock and chuck exploding ice... sad faece " <--- that's why "devices as an additional method of customization" currently doesn't work.
Whether you use them or not(or whether they fit your personal theme or not) devices are an additional method of customization. Just like powers, advantages and specializations. You don't have to use all the powers available to you nor all the power slots available. You do not have to use all of your advantage points if you don't want to. You also don't have to use all of your specialization points or even use specializations at all
If a device doesn't fit someone's theme or desired effect, than they don't have to use that device. Most of the legacy devices I would never use just because they really do not fit my theme. This does not stop me from entering the hero games with people who use devices because as long as someone isn't using an exploit, it really doesn't matter to me how someone else chooses to customize themselves.
I do me.
It is really not anyone's place to say how someone else should build themselves or what someone else should or should not use as long as it is within how things are intended to work game-wise.
Some specific builds will have natural advantages and disadvantages against other specific builds.
No one is truly OP.
There are however, exploits.
There are also mismatches that could be due to quite a few factors which include:
1.Differences in experience Level.
2.Differences in equipment.
The hero games are already broken up into level groups with unrestricted and Archetype as subcategories.
Instead of trying to police others on their customization choices and refusing to participate in a part of the game because of other people's customization choices who may play that part of the game, why not just focus on optimizing yourself the way you want?
That is what I really like about the hero games. Having my ideal optimized character teaming up with and also fighting against other people's ideal optimized characters.
I am not done upgrading yet either, but seeing the progression is fun too.
To me, the hero games are great dynamic content throughout the leveling process and are also Endgame material.
Do not worry about how someone else customizes themselves as long as they are not using exploits and the game is working as intended.
Optimize yourself the way you want and Join the Hero Games Queues!~:redface:
Except for all the themes that are not supported by the current tiny offering of devices of course... o3o
I am speaking of devices in general as a whole, not about specific devices and how they relate to everyone's wants and desires.
There are Powers and different frameworks that people would like to have in the game that would better match characters that people would like to create and characters that they currently have. Does this mean that the Powers and frameworks that are currently available are not methods of customization?
No. You can choose to use what frameworks and powers you want (following the rules of selecting powers) and you can choose to avoid frameworks and powers you do not want.
If you don't like any of the powers at all, I suppose you could just roleplay as a civilian if you would like. That would not change the fact that frameworks and powers do add customization.
In the same way specializations and devices are added methods of customization, whether you choose to use them or not and also whether they fit your particular theme or not.
That's like saying "Black concealer is a great make-up for all the people!"
As for the makeup analogy, there are a few things that don't line up.
If we assume that makeup would stand for devices, this would mean that black concealer would stand for a specific device which I did not discuss in the statement you quoted.
Also, by saying "great...for all the people" this implies that I made a specific statement about the quality of devices or that everyone would like to use them.(Even though I have specifically said that there are devices that I myself would not use because they don't fit my theme.)
Here is (In my opinion) a better analogy involving ,makeup:
Makeup can be used to cover blemishes.
1. I did not say everyone would or should like using makeup.
2. I did not say anything about specific types of makeup or how well it works, or who it works for.
3. I did not say makeup would cover YOUR blemishes.
I hope this makes things a little more clear about what I am saying.:redface:
Whether you use them or not(or whether they fit your personal theme or not) devices are an additional method of customization. Just like powers, advantages and specializations. You don't have to use all the powers available to you nor all the power slots available. You do not have to use all of your advantage points if you don't want to. You also don't have to use all of your specialization points or even use specializations at all
If a device doesn't fit someone's theme or desired effect, than they don't have to use that device. Most of the legacy devices I would never use just because they really do not fit my theme. This does not stop me from entering the hero games with people who use devices because as long as someone isn't using an exploit, it really doesn't matter to me how someone else chooses to customize themselves.
I do me.
It is really not anyone's place to say how someone else should build themselves or what someone else should or should not use as long as it is within how things are intended to work game-wise.
Some specific builds will have natural advantages and disadvantages against other specific builds.
No one is truly OP.
There are however, exploits.
There are also mismatches that could be due to quite a few factors which include:
1.Differences in experience Level.
2.Differences in equipment.
The hero games are already broken up into level groups with unrestricted and Archetype as subcategories.
Instead of trying to police others on their customization choices and refusing to participate in a part of the game because of other people's customization choices who may play that part of the game, why not just focus on optimizing yourself the way you want?
That is what I really like about the hero games. Having my ideal optimized character teaming up with and also fighting against other people's ideal optimized characters.
I am not done upgrading yet either, but seeing the progression is fun too.
To me, the hero games are great dynamic content throughout the leveling process and are also Endgame material.
Do not worry about how someone else customizes themselves as long as they are not using exploits and the game is working as intended.
Optimize yourself the way you want and Join the Hero Games Queues!~:redface:
.
Ok. First off i would like to clear up any misconceptions, if any about other peoples customization choices... I care not what others do with their builds. That is not the point. Or is it even a thought in the matter i brought up before. I do not want to take away nor do i want to nerf anything. I have said this before, but i think for some a flashing neon sign is the only way to get that across.
Now, on to the topic of which you speak.
Hero games should be thriving IMHO. It isn't. You yourself have seen people out and about who refuse to que for hero games because of devices. Hold PVP competitions, asking people not to use devices. Seen people duel, asking others not to use devices. Etc. Etc. Yes?
Why do you think that is? Just ask yourself that for a moment...
I know people for a fact that would play hero games in an instant if there were no devices.
This is not a knock to those that use devices, although there are people who detest those that use them. Some people want to fight straight up. It's really that simple. Some people really want their theme build to fight another theme build based solely on the build made coming out of the Powerhouse without a pit stop to the Drifter! It's really that simple.
I don't go around chastising people for using devices. I don't get all up in their business as to why they feel the need to use them. That's their deal, not mine. But in reverse, as seen here on this forum it seems to think differently or have another view is a bad thing.
It isn't. It's just another view. You are pro devices. I see that. And that is fine. I have been labeled Anti-device. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. True i don't use them to fight other players. I do use them in pve and rampages. I do sell them.
If i were anti devices, i would mostly likely want them gone or nerfed. Not the case. Not even a little bit. I don't believe in taking away from others for my own benefit.
And i wish it were the other way around when i bring up things like a device free zone in pvp/hero games so EVERYBODY can enjoy pvp. Not just a select few that feel you need to gear a certain way to que up.
And this is more on Cryptic than anyone. They made a game were things are w\"Working as intended" but not everything works for everybody or every kind of player.
In closing: I want to play with my friends who feel the same way i do, when it comes to hero games. But i am aware that may not happen. I am OK with that. We still duel device free. And have competitions device free. Life goes on.
And people can still que for Hero games with their devices intact. I don't want to change that.
I just want everybody to be able to play, no matter what type of build they choose to make.
And that includes a build device free in a device free zone, if one so chooses, for whatever reason they chose to do so.
I am speaking of devices in general as a whole, not about specific devices and how they relate to everyone's wants and desires.
The problem is we don't have "devices in general as a whole". We only have the specific devices we have access to, and of the selection we do have many of them are worthless. Sure, in fantasy land there are millions of devices that fit every type of theme possible... but back here in real world land, we have like 4, and their graphics don't lend them to fitting the majority of possible themes.
Ok. First off i would like to clear up any misconceptions, if any about other peoples customization choices... I care not what others do with their builds. That is not the point. Or is it even a thought in the matter i brought up before. I do not want to take away nor do i want to nerf anything. I have said this before, but i think for some a flashing neon sign is the only way to get that across.
I if were anti devices, i would mostly likely want them gone or nerfed. Not the case. Not even a little bit. I don't believe in taking away from others for my own benefit.
And people can still que for Hero games with their devices intact. I don't want to change that.
Firstly, I would like to thank you for responding. I think having this kind of discussion and really hashing out the feelings of others and our own feelings can help us understand each other better and even open up to new thoughts and ideas.
OK. Now you see the quotes above from your last post. Now look at the first post you made in this thread concerning devices.
You yourself have seen people out and about who refuse to que for hero games because of devices. Hold PVP competitions, asking people not to use devices. Seen people duel, asking others not to use devices. Etc. Etc. Yes?
Why do you think that is? Just ask yourself that for a moment...
Well, I think I have said why I think it is. Misconceptions and lack of updated information. You said a lot in your last post, but you gave no specific reason why you are holding on to your belief regarding devices in PvP. You did however post this on page 4.
When i talk to a lot people as well as my friends about why they don't play Bash more, it seems to come down to people abusing devices.
If the reason why you hold your belief about devices is because of abuse of devices, then your belief is based on outdated information. As has been stated, devices (specifically certain legacy devices that could and would be exploitable) were modified to not allow the exploitations, so now there is really no reason to continue holding that belief about devices if it was based on people abusing devices.
I don't go around chastising people for using devices. I don't get all up in their business as to why they feel the need to use them. That's their deal, not mine. But in reverse, as seen here on this forum it seems to think differently or have another view is a bad thing.
I give a eff if you cry about me or anybody talking about your crutches (Devices) you act like i was attacking someone. I was not.
Again, do you see the contradiction and why you may have garnered some negative reactions from people who do use devices in PvP? Whether you meant to or not, you were doing exactly what you were accusing others of doing and doing exactly what you said you weren't doing.
Some people want to fight straight up. It's really that simple. Some people really want their theme build to fight another theme build based solely on the build made coming out of the Powerhouse without a pit stop to the Drifter! It's really that simple.
Well, here is a jab at customization. what you are saying is these people (of which you speak of) are choosing not to play with others who choose to customize their character in a certain way.
1. Not because the person is specifically using exploits
2. Not because the person displays unsportsmanlike conduct.
3. Not because the person is a "troll".
Just solely based on their customization. This may not be what you mean and this may not be what others mean either.
Rethinking our stances and positions on things is very important, especially as situations and we as people change.
I would encourage everyone to give the hero games a try, especially if you have not played them since the device exploitation issue was resolved. If you liked the hero games before, you will probably like them now. Also, if you have never played the hero games, you may find something else you really enjoy about CO.
If you still have issues with the hero games regarding devices even after trying them, you can always go back to not queuing, so you really have nothing to lose and the Hero Games to gain.:redface:
The problem is we don't have "devices in general as a whole". We only have the specific devices we have access to, and of the selection we do have many of them are worthless. Sure, in fantasy land there are millions of devices that fit every type of theme possible... but back here in real world land, we have like 4, and their graphics don't lend them to fitting the majority of possible themes.
I'm really not sure why you are addressing me as if I have said something contrary to what you have said regarding the variety and/or quality of different devices.
All I said (at least what you are responding to) was that devices are another method of customization, which they are.
Thank you for your response. The negative responses you posted after my first were in response to someone else and were not stand alone comments. They were also in context, being taken out of context skews the message and my words entirely. I will leave it at that as far as that's concerned.
"Saying fighting straight up" and taking that as a jab confuses me...
It is what it is. Some people want to fight against another person who has the same number of powers they do. I don't see that as a slap to anyone.
Customization comes in many forms. One being, when you make your toon in the powerhouse.
This was not meant as a dig at those who use devices.
Also, the same could be reversed. I have heard people put down people for not using devices.
"Ohh you just don't want to spend money" "Everybody else has them...so" "You must of lost to someone who has devices". I have heard it all. All i say is , it is possible to not want them for the sake of my toon is just the way i want it and nothing else... it is possible. I and many others are proof.
In other words it works both ways. Trying to get people to soften their stance on devices? Why? I am not asking you or anyone else to change your views on devices,. Just to be open minded... people will do what they like and what makes them feel good about playing. Again, it goes both ways.
Yes, i have played Hero Games before. A few of mains were raised from 6-40 on ZA and Bash.
Loved it. Been here since beta. Have not played bash for year and a half now. ZA, about 6 months ago. And when i did try bash, it was a device exploit nightmare!
So that should give you a little perspective from my side of things. And even still, i wouldn't want people to be without devices. But like i said before, if they were to go... i would be there in a heartbeat. But since i don't use them when fighting others, it doesn't effect me like it would other people.
That is what i don't want. The more people that play this game the better. That's why i brought up a device free zone. It's not about playing with others that use devices. It's about playing with others that don't.
Now instead of one side playing and enjoying hero games... you have two.
It's just another way to look at the situation. And that's all I'm asking for.
The problem is we don't have "devices in general as a whole". We only have the specific devices we have access to, and of the selection we do have many of them are worthless. Sure, in fantasy land there are millions of devices that fit every type of theme possible... but back here in real world land, we have like 4, and their graphics don't lend them to fitting the majority of possible themes.
Devices fitting themes is another deterrent for me using them to be sure. I am very themed based with most of my builds.
I have a couple of builds that use devices, built solely for pve, Rampages, lair bosses, etc.
But even they are in theme. More "Useful" devices might open up a whole new world for cryptic to make money. Also, anything to add more variety to some builds would be welcomed.
Maybe a fire specific device pack. Ice. Melee. Magic. Getting 2-3 devices per pack?
Anyway, you're right, there are about five devices that are used. The rest are pretty useless.
Even in pve.
OH HOW I LOVE TO HAMMER MY HEAD IN WHILE READING THESE FORUMS.
See what I did there?
No?
:<
I think we should get some epic new zone that is 10x bigger than any other current zone with super epic content for teams and solo players. Then there should be areas where you have to fight another hero over some hero dispute. Then you can create your characters family and friends if he has any and make it so your nemesis will go after them now and again. Oh and maybe foxbat and a few of the others will do that too. I also think they should add in 10000 new devices and powers and make the game balanced!
OH HOW I LOVE TO HAMMER MY HEAD IN WHILE READING THESE FORUMS.
See what I did there?
No?
:<
I think we should get some epic new zone that is 10x bigger than any other current zone with super epic content for teams and solo players. Then there should be areas where you have to fight another hero over some hero dispute. Then you can create your characters family and friends if he has any and make it so your nemesis will go after them now and again. Oh and maybe foxbat and a few of the others will do that too. I also think they should add in 10000 new devices and powers and make the game balanced!
Yay progression is in full flow!
Almost sounds like a foundry mission i made on COH.
And yes, i did see what you did there. :rolleyes:
blahblahblah BORING. Can't wait for an intelligent discussion about devices.
In a different thread. Because this thread is seriously de-railed.
The tally thus far: zero convincing reasons in this guy's posts, other than "just don't wanna, so Cyrptic should devote resources on an entirely new (third) mode of Hero Games (ignoring all the balancing issues.) Cuz I said so. Repeatedly. I win forum PvP, noobs (the only PvP I've played since Cryptic nerfed relogging exploit in ZA.)
I (somehow) have thousands of friends who WOULD PvP if they all weren't huge ****ing babies about having to acquire devices. Cuz (somehow) devices are the only thing that matters in Hero Games!"
I would have been a lot nicer if this idiot wasn't ignoring me, but like I said, trolling is the only thing that seems to get his attention. And while I /am/ trolling right now, there's a deeper truth to my sarcasm that he will never admit to understanding the silliness of his own contradictory posts.
It's awesome how this newb can triple post yet still ignore my question.
Trying to get people to soften their stance on devices? Why?.
Because of the topic of this thread which is to get PvP going again. I was referring specifically to the hero games. Everything I have said here has been connected to that.
But whatever. If that has not been clear to you, then I really have nothing left to say to you at least in regards to that topic.:redface:
Because of the topic of this thread which is to get PvP going again. I was referring specifically to the hero games. Everything I have said here has been connected to that.
But whatever. If that has not been clear to you, then I really have nothing left to say to you at least in regards to that topic.:redface:
I know that.
My point was not to sugar coat it. They will play Hero Games. Just tell them to try it.
They will like it or they won't. Not trying to change peoples core thoughts is what i was saying.
Just telling people what to expect and being honest with them works best, imho.
Misunderstood again. lol
Whatever, nice to discuss without insults and such while it lasted.
But i can feel the climate change about now.
Peace. Nothing further to say to you as well on this topic...
Better to end here.
I love that certain people have "nothing more to say" on the subject and that it's better "to end here" without answering the very basic, simple, easy-to-understand question that I asked about why, what reason, why is it, WHY YOU ARE AGAINST DEVICES. WHY?
I realize the noooob is ignoring me and that he will never again acknowledge me as a human being. Better end it here. Nothing more to say. TOTALLY DONE WITH THIS "CONVERSATION."
I love that certain people have "nothing more to say" on the subject and that it's better "to end here" without answering the very basic, simple, easy-to-understand question that I asked about why, what reason, why is it, WHY YOU ARE AGAINST DEVICES. WHY?
I realize the noooob is ignoring me and that he will never again acknowledge me as a human being. Better end it here. Nothing more to say. TOTALLY DONE WITH THIS "CONVERSATION."
It's because someone pwn'd them with devices. There is literally no other answer that isn't complete BS that they could give. People aren't against devices unless they've been pwn'd by someone who was using them.
You can consider that a placeholder answer until someone proves otherwise u3u
So I will admit that I rarely PvP in any games, mostly because I don't care for the elite attitude that a good chunk of the people who PvP tend to exhibit.
In regards to Champs I personally don't see anything wrong with using devices in PvP. They are a valid part of the game, and as such can be used as a player wishes. That being said, I can also understand why players wouldn't want to use devices for dueling/PvP. The concept is akin to those who use ATs versus those who are FF for PvP. It can be viewed to some as an unfair advantage, despite it being something that players choose not to use/have devices. It could also be (as mentioned earlier) that it's an "honor" much like how dueling could be limited to no "dirty fighting" IRL.
I think that Hero Games are in need of a better reward/incentive system before any kind of further dividing of what little community we do have.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
So I will admit that I rarely PvP in any games, mostly because I don't care for the elite attitude that a good chunk of the people who PvP tend to exhibit.
In regards to Champs I personally don't see anything wrong with using devices in PvP. They are a valid part of the game, and as such can be used as a player wishes. That being said, I can also understand why players wouldn't want to use devices for dueling/PvP. The concept is akin to those who use ATs versus those who are FF for PvP. It can be viewed to some as an unfair advantage, despite it being something that players choose not to use/have devices. It could also be (as mentioned earlier) that it's an "honor" much like how dueling could be limited to no "dirty fighting" IRL.
I think that Hero Games are in need of a better reward/incentive system before any kind of further dividing of what little community we do have.
Wow. Nail on the head.
You can see both sides. Amazing no one else could!! I liken it to steroids. If a guy is taking them to hit harder. Run faster. Jump higher. That feels like cheating. Not the cheating you might be thinking right off the bat, but the kind that is cheating yourself! How good are you if you need that stuff? How will you know? And if a lot are using who's clean and who isn't. Don't you want a clean fight?
I spar and work out a lot at my gym. I know for sure some people are on the juice. These people have no honor. None at all. They get no respect for taking the easy way out, while the rest of us work hard to sharpen our skills.
It's not exactly the same, but it's not that different. And when people don't understand it or chose not to open their eyes beyond what they normally see... you get comments like "He didn't answer my question" which is false. But some peoples ability to comprehend what they read is lacking. And if you don't believe what the person is telling you, yet keep asking for an answer, you deserve to look clueless.
I said why i don't use devices in pvp. If choosing to fight straight up isn't enough for some of you I'm sorry. You can make up whatever story behind that you wish.
jerax1011 got it right. Straight up means fight with honor in my book.
Also, another reason i don't play hero games anymore is also the attitude.
jerax1011 got that right as well. Just look at these last couple of pages...
Also, people who talk about PvPers having an elitist attitude are taking an extremely small portion of the pvp population as representing the whole. You should stop doing that... that sort of thinking leads to racism, sexual harassment, jail, having your "house" blown away by tornadoes, and being one of those annoying housewives that nobody likes. The majority of pvpers that I've met aren't serious about pvp in this game at all... you can tell the ones that are serious because they are obvious raving lunatics who have lost their grip on reality.
I have learned a few things about pvp since last posting in this section of the forum. Bash is just awful, I suck at it and got yelled at in PMs for being terrible.
However ZA and Stronghold are hecka fun, people should do that more... but this bug nonsense about kicking people has gotta be fixed.
Using devices is the most important part about pvp, just like artifacts in Neverwinter. Expect new devices to come exclusively from lockboxes in the future btw.
That being said, I can also understand why players wouldn't want to use devices for dueling/PvP. The concept is akin to those who use ATs versus those who are FF for PvP. It can be viewed to some as an unfair advantage, despite it being something that players choose not to use/have devices. It could also be (as mentioned earlier) that it's an "honor" much like how dueling could be limited to no "dirty fighting" IRL.
To me, the difference between FF and AT is potential for diversity. Most ATs are very niche and are inherently put together to do certain things and perform in certain ways, thus it can be difficult to do more than that if you want to. FFs on the other hand inherently have more options open to them to be more efficient or niche if they want to be. This does not mean that all FFs will always have the advantage over all ATs PvP-wise, just that FFs have more potential for diversification within their powers and abilities. Who has the advantage battle-wise will really depend on the builds that each person is using and how they interact.
In general, I have heard people say that both FFs and ATs have the advantage over each other..lol
In regards to the added potential to diversify their builds through their powers that FFs have, I really do not see this as unfair since they have paid to be FF whether it be by lifetime sub, monthly sub,or FF slot.
What I do think is unfair is the character assassination of people solely based on their use of devices in PvP.
Actually I have found that must people's issue is not with devices in general. Most are not really concerned with my Crafted Travel Power that I use, but in these discussions a lot of the time people cast a wide net in demonizing all device use in PvP, when they are really against legacy device use in PvP. Heck, it's not even that general. Most are mainly against very specific legacy device use in PvP. Devices I don't use and would never use because they do not fit my playstyle and/or theme. But because I do use devices in PvP, I and others fall under the net of this demonization, none of which is warranted, but it is just even worse that people who are not even using the specific devices that others are mostly against are also looked down upon.
Anyways, back to device use in PvP in general.. Someone solely using or not using devices in PvP is not a determinant of a person's character. (For example being honorable, a dirty fighter, etc.)
I have heard people discuss whether it is honorable or not to win a duel by intentionally knocking someone out of bounds or by using a combo like sleep-shadowstrike. (Neither of which requires a device)
Regardless my personal feelings on the subject, I can at least see how it could be a question of character because it is not solely the use of knocking, sleep or shadowstrike that is being judged, but HOW they are being used.
Devices in PvP (and more specifically, specific Legacy Devices in PvP) in the same way would spark discussions not solely because of their use, but because HOW they were being used. They were exploitable. The Devs have corrected this.
So why are device users in PvP still thought of as dishonorable?
Why are device users in PvP still called dirty fighters?
It Makes No Sense.
People are generalizing their arguments when it would be more clear if they were more specific and they are also trying to segment and break apart from a small community within a small community. It would probably be more enjoyable for us all to play together rather than demonize one another, thus making ourselves feel superior.
Queue for the Hero Games!~ We may fight and bicker, but I am sure most have good intentions.
Note: jerax1011, the above was not specifically directed at you for any answers or response from you. Your post Just inspired me to write a little more.
I have learned a few things about pvp since last posting in this section of the forum. Bash is just awful, I suck at it and got yelled at in PMs for being terrible.
However ZA and Stronghold are hecka fun, people should do that more... but this bug nonsense about kicking people has gotta be fixed.
Just stating the obvious naturally.
Be careful, stating the obvious can get you caught up in a Forum PvP match as well. lol
I too have been in Bash matches where I have received PMs, only mine were ones asking why I was in there and that I didn't belong there etc etc. Also threatening PMs regarding me trying to help people who were being farmed and also attacking the point leader..lol
I also much more enjoy the team Hero Games including the Arena games, King of the Hill, Stronghold and ZA. It's just that BASH is the game that pops the most because it requires the least amount of people.
Good thing a lot more people will start queuing for the hero games regularly so the team hero games will be popping nonstop in no time!~
Anyways, if anyone new (or old) finds themselves in BASH with someone trying to farm them and I am there, I will most certainly try to help you. I much rather a match end in a draw or be farmed myself than someone else be farmed. Worse comes to worse, we can be farmed together. Sounds like fun to me.:redface:
Using devices is the most important part about pvp, just like artifacts in Neverwinter. Expect new devices to come exclusively from lockboxes in the future btw.
Also, people who talk about PvPers having an elitist attitude are taking an extremely small portion of the pvp population as representing the whole.
I agree that it isn't all PvPers, I have also stated to that effect that a good chunk of those who I have PvP'd with (mainly from other games, hence why I rarely PvP in Champs) are the ones with this attitude. It was by no means a sweeping statement in regards to all PvP.
Well said! I do happen to agree that people typically are against one specific thing or a few devices, but those reasons can be extremely varied. It can range from the frustration of constantly losing to a specific power/device to again the idea of forced limitations/not using devices being a "clean" fight. Everyone has their own personal preference, and long story short game developers can't make large arenas for every scenario.
To those who prefer to PvP without devices or other types of limitations, I suggest that you stick to duels for now and CLEARLY state in a PM before actually dueling what you see for parameters. This way if someone doesn't fight in a way that you view fair (once you have both agreed to not using devices and they do anyways) then you note that you'd rather not PvP with them.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
All someone needs to say is "let's duel without devices." I really can't think of anyone who would say no to that. I'm talking about most people who play Hero Games PvP.. There's a large number of players who duel but never play HG's and those folk seem largely a mystery to me. Especially the ones that duel for RP purposes. I can't speak for them.
Then you get others who only argue on the HG forums, boasting about how they "work out and spar" and act tough. Those noobs are a joke. :biggrin:
As some people are overdoing and over think their replys and answering with freaking novels ima be lazy and just leave at page of War and Peace here <_<
Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you dont tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that AntichristI really believe he is AntichristI will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my faithful slave, as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened yousit down and tell me all the news.
It was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the well-known Anna Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honor and favorite of the Empress Marya Fedorovna. With these words she greeted Prince Vasili Kuragin, a man of high rank and importance, who was the first to arrive at her reception. Anna Pavlovna had had a cough for some days. She was, as she said, suffering from la grippe; grippe being then a new word in St. Petersburg, used only by the elite.
All her invitations without exception, written in French, and delivered by a scarlet-liveried footman that morning, ran as follows:
If you have nothing better to do, Count (or Prince), and if the prospect of spending an evening with a poor invalid is not too terrible, I shall be very charmed to see you tonight between 7 and 10Annette Scherer.
Heavens! what a virulent attack! replied the prince, not in the least disconcerted by this reception. He had just entered, wearing an embroidered court uniform, knee breeches, and shoes, and had stars on his breast and a serene expression on his flat face. He spoke in that refined French in which our grandfathers not only spoke but thought, and with the gentle, patronizing intonation natural to a man of importance who had grown old in society and at court. He went up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed her hand, presenting to her his bald, scented, and shining head, and complacently seated himself on the sofa.
First of all, dear friend, tell me how you are. Set your friends mind at rest, said he without altering his tone, beneath the politeness and affected sympathy of which indifference and even irony could be discerned.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
As some people are overdoing and over think their replys and answering with freaking novels ima be lazy and just leave at page of War and Peace here <_<
As some people are overdoing and over think their replys and answering with freaking novels ima be lazy and just leave at page of War and Peace here <_<
Listen here El pino grijio pasta fazuul nook nook click boom patty O gabbins McSanchez of the sea... desu.
I have learned a few things about pvp since last posting in this section of the forum. Bash is just awful, I suck at it and got yelled at in PMs for being terrible.
However ZA and Stronghold are hecka fun, people should do that more... but this bug nonsense about kicking people has gotta be fixed.
Just stating the obvious naturally.
OMG ITS TRUE! People in BASH will yell at you for being bad and getting killed a lot! It happened to me on my squishy PA character, a short ugly little man got mad and yelled at me because I kept dying T3T
Comments
I mean that, what you said about being bored of bash, that duels are lame and about the kick bug.. Not much we can do about those things. We've been putting up with that crap for a long time. Square one.
THAT
(used to indicate a person, thing, idea, state, event, time, remark, etc., as pointed out or present, mentioned before, supposed to be understood, or by way of emphasis)
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
My one is a link which makes it better! :<
Anyway for all you copy builders out there, lets get some PvP talk going!
Click here!
Yo!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
/THREAD
/DUBSTEP
/EXPLOSION
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Also, advertisement works a lot too. I have been the only one queued for Zombie Apocalypse and gotten new people to try it and make the queue pop. Most enjoy it and are thankful for being introduced to a part of the game they had never done before. These new people are discouraged by the queues looking so deserted as well. If we all would just queue, it would encourage others to queue too.
Of course a drawback could be the issue with the kick bug which may frustrate newcomers, but I think if the Devs see that people actually play the hero games regularly/want to play them by seeing their activities in-game and are not just on the forums complaining about the hero games, they may feel it more pressing to fix bugs having to do with the hero games. Kinda a catch 22 situation, but we can break the cycle if we really want to.
The queuing up without being prompted part is really easy and we all can do that, but I know the advertisement part could be a little daunting for some, especially since there is no guarantee that it will work, and it definitely has not worked for me 100% of the time, but just don't get discouraged if it doesn't work. The state of the hero games will get better :biggrin:
One more thing I think that could help the hero games would be to help fight misconceptions about the hero games and to also give people updated information that may make them feel differently about the hero games.
One particularly controversial topic that comes to mind, would be the issue of devices.
Even in this thread, there was a heated discussion about devices where I think the points were made, but just maybe not in a way that the person could be very receptive of what was being said.
Here are a couple of points about Devices that I bring up when someone says they don't want to participate in the hero games because of them or even worse, that they have something against device users in general:
1. Devices are just another way to customize your character even further. In this way, I would liken them to specializations. Devices can be used by anyone to fit a theme, be more efficient, etc.
2. There was a time when devices(specifically the legacy devices) could (and would) be exploited, but that time is over. The Devs released an update quite a while ago now that put devices in check, so there is really no need for device hate nor discrimination against device users any longer.
I have talked to people against devices in-game and I have at least gotten some of them to soften their positions on the subject. Doing this more could get more exclusive duelers to start queuing for the hero games.
If we all do our part, I know we can make things a lot more active in the hero games. :redface:
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Different people have different play styles. I think it would be a good thing to encourage people with different builds to join the hero games and to not be discouraged if they lose a lot at first especially to more experienced PvPers. Heck,there may be certain combos that will defeat you most of the time, but that shouldn't be a reason to abandon a build you really like and enjoy playing or to abandon the hero games in general. At least this is how I feel about it.
Optimize the build that you like and play how you like playing should be stressed I think.:redface:
Beat you to it on the previous page, amyjia!!!
I think I have echoed quite a bit of what you have said, only with a more serious tone and a little more exposition.
Or maybe I'm just long winded and you were short and concise.
Whichever packaging you prefer, the present inside is still the same.
A lot of the time people have similar thoughts and ideas, but just different ways of expressing themselves and also different ways of processing information. Sometimes it just takes an idea being expressed in a different way for some to get it. :redface:
Good form, amyjia. Good form. Solidarity!
Yes, i was part of that heated discussion. I felt it didn't need to be that heated.
You said you encounter people not wanting to que hero games because of devices. Yes , this happens a lot. Even in duels. More than half the people ask for a pure fight (No Devices) to see who can best who without someone saying "You won because you had an unfair advantage" it eliminates that outright.
Also, i see your point about adding spice to your toon by using devices. There are people like me. And i guess those you have encountered that don't use devices. And don't want to use them (In pvp) I as well as a lot of my friends would love for there to be a device free que.
From the people I've talked to, it would pop big time, imho. Getting those we spoke of earlier just into trying hero games again or maybe for the fist time, could bring in a whole new set of players. Those that use devices would not be affected, as that que would remain intact!
Even more so, I'm sure some of those people would slide on over now and then and get the unlimited que popping as well!
This is nothing but a dream as Cryptic has done nothing to help or change pvp, ever it seems.
I commend you for trying to get people involved however. And i see your point as far as incorporating devices. There are just so many people out there with so many different ways to build a toon and what it means to them... i just wish Cryptic had more options for every kind of player.
Thanks again for a very good and open minded post.
Legacy devices share a cool down now. No devices can be exploited. All work as intended. So my question is why you are against them?
"Because people use them against me and I die and I don't like that"
OH WHATS THAT? DONT MIND ME UUUUBTREE IM JUST DAYDREAMING ABOUT A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE ARE HONEST ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS AND NOT SO DAMN TSUNDERE ABOUT PVP.
Also I'm typing in caps because you still haven't taken off your shirt and dance DONT YOU CARE ABOUT PVP???
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But I have the sneaking suspicion that he's ignoring me. Some folk only respond when being trolled.
The irony is that more devices would actually solve a whole chunk of the issue. Like, not everyone's theme involves throwing a chunk of rock, or throwing a ice bomb, or doing whatever it is that the invincibility one has as a graphic, so you run into situations like "Okay I am a fire hero, I only have fire powers, I am a cool fire guy... except in pvp where I throw chunks of rock and chuck exploding ice... sad faece
So if they just released a bunch more devices that have similarly powerful effects but have many more different graphics, then everyone could use devices and still stick to their theme!
I am genius, Cryptic should hire o3o I will work for minimum wage.
I'm not sure if any of that is what that person would have answered with, I'm just guessing.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I doubt that's lovehammers' reason to be anti-devices, but yours is a valid point.
I'm all for more device variety. :biggrin:
Whether you use them or not(or whether they fit your personal theme or not) devices are an additional method of customization. Just like powers, advantages and specializations. You don't have to use all the powers available to you nor all the power slots available. You do not have to use all of your advantage points if you don't want to. You also don't have to use all of your specialization points or even use specializations at all
If a device doesn't fit someone's theme or desired effect, than they don't have to use that device. Most of the legacy devices I would never use just because they really do not fit my theme. This does not stop me from entering the hero games with people who use devices because as long as someone isn't using an exploit, it really doesn't matter to me how someone else chooses to customize themselves.
I do me.
It is really not anyone's place to say how someone else should build themselves or what someone else should or should not use as long as it is within how things are intended to work game-wise.
Some specific builds will have natural advantages and disadvantages against other specific builds.
No one is truly OP.
There are however, exploits.
There are also mismatches that could be due to quite a few factors which include:
1.Differences in experience Level.
2.Differences in equipment.
The hero games are already broken up into level groups with unrestricted and Archetype as subcategories.
Instead of trying to police others on their customization choices and refusing to participate in a part of the game because of other people's customization choices who may play that part of the game, why not just focus on optimizing yourself the way you want?
That is what I really like about the hero games. Having my ideal optimized character teaming up with and also fighting against other people's ideal optimized characters.
I am not done upgrading yet either, but seeing the progression is fun too.
To me, the hero games are great dynamic content throughout the leveling process and are also Endgame material.
Do not worry about how someone else customizes themselves as long as they are not using exploits and the game is working as intended.
Optimize yourself the way you want and Join the Hero Games Queues!~:redface:
.
Except for all the themes that are not supported by the current tiny offering of devices of course... o3o
That's like saying "Black concealer is a great make-up for all the people!"
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I am speaking of devices in general as a whole, not about specific devices and how they relate to everyone's wants and desires.
There are Powers and different frameworks that people would like to have in the game that would better match characters that people would like to create and characters that they currently have. Does this mean that the Powers and frameworks that are currently available are not methods of customization?
No. You can choose to use what frameworks and powers you want (following the rules of selecting powers) and you can choose to avoid frameworks and powers you do not want.
If you don't like any of the powers at all, I suppose you could just roleplay as a civilian if you would like. That would not change the fact that frameworks and powers do add customization.
In the same way specializations and devices are added methods of customization, whether you choose to use them or not and also whether they fit your particular theme or not.
As for the makeup analogy, there are a few things that don't line up.
If we assume that makeup would stand for devices, this would mean that black concealer would stand for a specific device which I did not discuss in the statement you quoted.
Also, by saying "great...for all the people" this implies that I made a specific statement about the quality of devices or that everyone would like to use them.(Even though I have specifically said that there are devices that I myself would not use because they don't fit my theme.)
Here is (In my opinion) a better analogy involving ,makeup:
Makeup can be used to cover blemishes.
1. I did not say everyone would or should like using makeup.
2. I did not say anything about specific types of makeup or how well it works, or who it works for.
3. I did not say makeup would cover YOUR blemishes.
I hope this makes things a little more clear about what I am saying.:redface:
Now, on to the topic of which you speak.
Hero games should be thriving IMHO. It isn't. You yourself have seen people out and about who refuse to que for hero games because of devices. Hold PVP competitions, asking people not to use devices. Seen people duel, asking others not to use devices. Etc. Etc. Yes?
Why do you think that is? Just ask yourself that for a moment...
I know people for a fact that would play hero games in an instant if there were no devices.
This is not a knock to those that use devices, although there are people who detest those that use them. Some people want to fight straight up. It's really that simple. Some people really want their theme build to fight another theme build based solely on the build made coming out of the Powerhouse without a pit stop to the Drifter! It's really that simple.
I don't go around chastising people for using devices. I don't get all up in their business as to why they feel the need to use them. That's their deal, not mine. But in reverse, as seen here on this forum it seems to think differently or have another view is a bad thing.
It isn't. It's just another view. You are pro devices. I see that. And that is fine. I have been labeled Anti-device. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. True i don't use them to fight other players. I do use them in pve and rampages. I do sell them.
If i were anti devices, i would mostly likely want them gone or nerfed. Not the case. Not even a little bit. I don't believe in taking away from others for my own benefit.
And i wish it were the other way around when i bring up things like a device free zone in pvp/hero games so EVERYBODY can enjoy pvp. Not just a select few that feel you need to gear a certain way to que up.
And this is more on Cryptic than anyone. They made a game were things are w\"Working as intended" but not everything works for everybody or every kind of player.
In closing: I want to play with my friends who feel the same way i do, when it comes to hero games. But i am aware that may not happen. I am OK with that. We still duel device free. And have competitions device free. Life goes on.
And people can still que for Hero games with their devices intact. I don't want to change that.
I just want everybody to be able to play, no matter what type of build they choose to make.
And that includes a build device free in a device free zone, if one so chooses, for whatever reason they chose to do so.
Peace
But I am NOT going to read through those massively long posts! :O
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
The problem is we don't have "devices in general as a whole". We only have the specific devices we have access to, and of the selection we do have many of them are worthless. Sure, in fantasy land there are millions of devices that fit every type of theme possible... but back here in real world land, we have like 4, and their graphics don't lend them to fitting the majority of possible themes.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Firstly, I would like to thank you for responding. I think having this kind of discussion and really hashing out the feelings of others and our own feelings can help us understand each other better and even open up to new thoughts and ideas.
OK. Now you see the quotes above from your last post. Now look at the first post you made in this thread concerning devices.
Do you see the contradiction here and why your first post may have garnered some negative reactions from people who do use devices in PvP?
Well, I think I have said why I think it is. Misconceptions and lack of updated information. You said a lot in your last post, but you gave no specific reason why you are holding on to your belief regarding devices in PvP. You did however post this on page 4.
If the reason why you hold your belief about devices is because of abuse of devices, then your belief is based on outdated information. As has been stated, devices (specifically certain legacy devices that could and would be exploitable) were modified to not allow the exploitations, so now there is really no reason to continue holding that belief about devices if it was based on people abusing devices.
But once again on page 4 you posted this.
Again, do you see the contradiction and why you may have garnered some negative reactions from people who do use devices in PvP? Whether you meant to or not, you were doing exactly what you were accusing others of doing and doing exactly what you said you weren't doing.
Well, here is a jab at customization. what you are saying is these people (of which you speak of) are choosing not to play with others who choose to customize their character in a certain way.
1. Not because the person is specifically using exploits
2. Not because the person displays unsportsmanlike conduct.
3. Not because the person is a "troll".
Just solely based on their customization. This may not be what you mean and this may not be what others mean either.
Rethinking our stances and positions on things is very important, especially as situations and we as people change.
I would encourage everyone to give the hero games a try, especially if you have not played them since the device exploitation issue was resolved. If you liked the hero games before, you will probably like them now. Also, if you have never played the hero games, you may find something else you really enjoy about CO.
If you still have issues with the hero games regarding devices even after trying them, you can always go back to not queuing, so you really have nothing to lose and the Hero Games to gain.:redface:
I'm really not sure why you are addressing me as if I have said something contrary to what you have said regarding the variety and/or quality of different devices.
All I said (at least what you are responding to) was that devices are another method of customization, which they are.
I will not be addressing that point any further.
Gah. I know right. Forum PvP can be just as long and drawn out as some duels ingame. Oh Well, GG:redface:
"Saying fighting straight up" and taking that as a jab confuses me...
It is what it is. Some people want to fight against another person who has the same number of powers they do. I don't see that as a slap to anyone.
Customization comes in many forms. One being, when you make your toon in the powerhouse.
This was not meant as a dig at those who use devices.
Also, the same could be reversed. I have heard people put down people for not using devices.
"Ohh you just don't want to spend money" "Everybody else has them...so" "You must of lost to someone who has devices". I have heard it all. All i say is , it is possible to not want them for the sake of my toon is just the way i want it and nothing else... it is possible. I and many others are proof.
In other words it works both ways. Trying to get people to soften their stance on devices? Why? I am not asking you or anyone else to change your views on devices,. Just to be open minded... people will do what they like and what makes them feel good about playing. Again, it goes both ways.
And thank you again for your response.
Yes, i have played Hero Games before. A few of mains were raised from 6-40 on ZA and Bash.
Loved it. Been here since beta. Have not played bash for year and a half now. ZA, about 6 months ago. And when i did try bash, it was a device exploit nightmare!
So that should give you a little perspective from my side of things. And even still, i wouldn't want people to be without devices. But like i said before, if they were to go... i would be there in a heartbeat. But since i don't use them when fighting others, it doesn't effect me like it would other people.
That is what i don't want. The more people that play this game the better. That's why i brought up a device free zone. It's not about playing with others that use devices. It's about playing with others that don't.
Now instead of one side playing and enjoying hero games... you have two.
It's just another way to look at the situation. And that's all I'm asking for.
Thanks again
I have a couple of builds that use devices, built solely for pve, Rampages, lair bosses, etc.
But even they are in theme. More "Useful" devices might open up a whole new world for cryptic to make money. Also, anything to add more variety to some builds would be welcomed.
Maybe a fire specific device pack. Ice. Melee. Magic. Getting 2-3 devices per pack?
Anyway, you're right, there are about five devices that are used. The rest are pretty useless.
Even in pve.
See what I did there?
No?
:<
I think we should get some epic new zone that is 10x bigger than any other current zone with super epic content for teams and solo players. Then there should be areas where you have to fight another hero over some hero dispute. Then you can create your characters family and friends if he has any and make it so your nemesis will go after them now and again. Oh and maybe foxbat and a few of the others will do that too. I also think they should add in 10000 new devices and powers and make the game balanced!
Yay progression is in full flow!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
And yes, i did see what you did there. :rolleyes:
In a different thread. Because this thread is seriously de-railed.
The tally thus far: zero convincing reasons in this guy's posts, other than "just don't wanna, so Cyrptic should devote resources on an entirely new (third) mode of Hero Games (ignoring all the balancing issues.) Cuz I said so. Repeatedly. I win forum PvP, noobs (the only PvP I've played since Cryptic nerfed relogging exploit in ZA.)
I (somehow) have thousands of friends who WOULD PvP if they all weren't huge ****ing babies about having to acquire devices. Cuz (somehow) devices are the only thing that matters in Hero Games!"
I would have been a lot nicer if this idiot wasn't ignoring me, but like I said, trolling is the only thing that seems to get his attention. And while I /am/ trolling right now, there's a deeper truth to my sarcasm that he will never admit to understanding the silliness of his own contradictory posts.
It's awesome how this newb can triple post yet still ignore my question.
Because of the topic of this thread which is to get PvP going again. I was referring specifically to the hero games. Everything I have said here has been connected to that.
But whatever. If that has not been clear to you, then I really have nothing left to say to you at least in regards to that topic.:redface:
My point was not to sugar coat it. They will play Hero Games. Just tell them to try it.
They will like it or they won't. Not trying to change peoples core thoughts is what i was saying.
Just telling people what to expect and being honest with them works best, imho.
Misunderstood again. lol
Whatever, nice to discuss without insults and such while it lasted.
But i can feel the climate change about now.
Peace. Nothing further to say to you as well on this topic...
Better to end here.
Thanks again
I realize the noooob is ignoring me and that he will never again acknowledge me as a human being. Better end it here. Nothing more to say. TOTALLY DONE WITH THIS "CONVERSATION."
And you're wrong, because they are not. The could be, some day, but they are not.
It's because someone pwn'd them with devices. There is literally no other answer that isn't complete BS that they could give. People aren't against devices unless they've been pwn'd by someone who was using them.
You can consider that a placeholder answer until someone proves otherwise u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
In regards to Champs I personally don't see anything wrong with using devices in PvP. They are a valid part of the game, and as such can be used as a player wishes. That being said, I can also understand why players wouldn't want to use devices for dueling/PvP. The concept is akin to those who use ATs versus those who are FF for PvP. It can be viewed to some as an unfair advantage, despite it being something that players choose not to use/have devices. It could also be (as mentioned earlier) that it's an "honor" much like how dueling could be limited to no "dirty fighting" IRL.
I think that Hero Games are in need of a better reward/incentive system before any kind of further dividing of what little community we do have.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
So true.
So does anyone else love Invader Zim?
You can see both sides. Amazing no one else could!! I liken it to steroids. If a guy is taking them to hit harder. Run faster. Jump higher. That feels like cheating. Not the cheating you might be thinking right off the bat, but the kind that is cheating yourself! How good are you if you need that stuff? How will you know? And if a lot are using who's clean and who isn't. Don't you want a clean fight?
I spar and work out a lot at my gym. I know for sure some people are on the juice. These people have no honor. None at all. They get no respect for taking the easy way out, while the rest of us work hard to sharpen our skills.
It's not exactly the same, but it's not that different. And when people don't understand it or chose not to open their eyes beyond what they normally see... you get comments like "He didn't answer my question" which is false. But some peoples ability to comprehend what they read is lacking. And if you don't believe what the person is telling you, yet keep asking for an answer, you deserve to look clueless.
I said why i don't use devices in pvp. If choosing to fight straight up isn't enough for some of you I'm sorry. You can make up whatever story behind that you wish.
jerax1011 got it right. Straight up means fight with honor in my book.
Also, another reason i don't play hero games anymore is also the attitude.
jerax1011 got that right as well. Just look at these last couple of pages...
Later
Amazing that you can't see that many people can see both sides.
For real this time?
Also, people who talk about PvPers having an elitist attitude are taking an extremely small portion of the pvp population as representing the whole. You should stop doing that... that sort of thinking leads to racism, sexual harassment, jail, having your "house" blown away by tornadoes, and being one of those annoying housewives that nobody likes. The majority of pvpers that I've met aren't serious about pvp in this game at all... you can tell the ones that are serious because they are obvious raving lunatics who have lost their grip on reality.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
However ZA and Stronghold are hecka fun, people should do that more... but this bug nonsense about kicking people has gotta be fixed.
Just stating the obvious naturally.
To me, the difference between FF and AT is potential for diversity. Most ATs are very niche and are inherently put together to do certain things and perform in certain ways, thus it can be difficult to do more than that if you want to. FFs on the other hand inherently have more options open to them to be more efficient or niche if they want to be. This does not mean that all FFs will always have the advantage over all ATs PvP-wise, just that FFs have more potential for diversification within their powers and abilities. Who has the advantage battle-wise will really depend on the builds that each person is using and how they interact.
In general, I have heard people say that both FFs and ATs have the advantage over each other..lol
In regards to the added potential to diversify their builds through their powers that FFs have, I really do not see this as unfair since they have paid to be FF whether it be by lifetime sub, monthly sub,or FF slot.
What I do think is unfair is the character assassination of people solely based on their use of devices in PvP.
Actually I have found that must people's issue is not with devices in general. Most are not really concerned with my Crafted Travel Power that I use, but in these discussions a lot of the time people cast a wide net in demonizing all device use in PvP, when they are really against legacy device use in PvP. Heck, it's not even that general. Most are mainly against very specific legacy device use in PvP. Devices I don't use and would never use because they do not fit my playstyle and/or theme. But because I do use devices in PvP, I and others fall under the net of this demonization, none of which is warranted, but it is just even worse that people who are not even using the specific devices that others are mostly against are also looked down upon.
Anyways, back to device use in PvP in general.. Someone solely using or not using devices in PvP is not a determinant of a person's character. (For example being honorable, a dirty fighter, etc.)
I have heard people discuss whether it is honorable or not to win a duel by intentionally knocking someone out of bounds or by using a combo like sleep-shadowstrike. (Neither of which requires a device)
Regardless my personal feelings on the subject, I can at least see how it could be a question of character because it is not solely the use of knocking, sleep or shadowstrike that is being judged, but HOW they are being used.
Devices in PvP (and more specifically, specific Legacy Devices in PvP) in the same way would spark discussions not solely because of their use, but because HOW they were being used. They were exploitable. The Devs have corrected this.
So why are device users in PvP still thought of as dishonorable?
Why are device users in PvP still called dirty fighters?
It Makes No Sense.
People are generalizing their arguments when it would be more clear if they were more specific and they are also trying to segment and break apart from a small community within a small community. It would probably be more enjoyable for us all to play together rather than demonize one another, thus making ourselves feel superior.
Queue for the Hero Games!~ We may fight and bicker, but I am sure most have good intentions.
Note: jerax1011, the above was not specifically directed at you for any answers or response from you. Your post Just inspired me to write a little more.
Be careful, stating the obvious can get you caught up in a Forum PvP match as well. lol
I too have been in Bash matches where I have received PMs, only mine were ones asking why I was in there and that I didn't belong there etc etc. Also threatening PMs regarding me trying to help people who were being farmed and also attacking the point leader..lol
I also much more enjoy the team Hero Games including the Arena games, King of the Hill, Stronghold and ZA. It's just that BASH is the game that pops the most because it requires the least amount of people.
Good thing a lot more people will start queuing for the hero games regularly so the team hero games will be popping nonstop in no time!~
Anyways, if anyone new (or old) finds themselves in BASH with someone trying to farm them and I am there, I will most certainly try to help you. I much rather a match end in a draw or be farmed myself than someone else be farmed. Worse comes to worse, we can be farmed together. Sounds like fun to me.:redface:
Let me just sum up NW PvP to you...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/28k1so.jpg
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I agree that it isn't all PvPers, I have also stated to that effect that a good chunk of those who I have PvP'd with (mainly from other games, hence why I rarely PvP in Champs) are the ones with this attitude. It was by no means a sweeping statement in regards to all PvP.
Well said! I do happen to agree that people typically are against one specific thing or a few devices, but those reasons can be extremely varied. It can range from the frustration of constantly losing to a specific power/device to again the idea of forced limitations/not using devices being a "clean" fight. Everyone has their own personal preference, and long story short game developers can't make large arenas for every scenario.
To those who prefer to PvP without devices or other types of limitations, I suggest that you stick to duels for now and CLEARLY state in a PM before actually dueling what you see for parameters. This way if someone doesn't fight in a way that you view fair (once you have both agreed to not using devices and they do anyways) then you note that you'd rather not PvP with them.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Then you get others who only argue on the HG forums, boasting about how they "work out and spar" and act tough. Those noobs are a joke. :biggrin:
Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you dont tell me that this means war, if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that AntichristI really believe he is AntichristI will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer my faithful slave, as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see I have frightened yousit down and tell me all the news.
It was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the well-known Anna Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honor and favorite of the Empress Marya Fedorovna. With these words she greeted Prince Vasili Kuragin, a man of high rank and importance, who was the first to arrive at her reception. Anna Pavlovna had had a cough for some days. She was, as she said, suffering from la grippe; grippe being then a new word in St. Petersburg, used only by the elite.
All her invitations without exception, written in French, and delivered by a scarlet-liveried footman that morning, ran as follows:
If you have nothing better to do, Count (or Prince), and if the prospect of spending an evening with a poor invalid is not too terrible, I shall be very charmed to see you tonight between 7 and 10Annette Scherer.
Heavens! what a virulent attack! replied the prince, not in the least disconcerted by this reception. He had just entered, wearing an embroidered court uniform, knee breeches, and shoes, and had stars on his breast and a serene expression on his flat face. He spoke in that refined French in which our grandfathers not only spoke but thought, and with the gentle, patronizing intonation natural to a man of importance who had grown old in society and at court. He went up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed her hand, presenting to her his bald, scented, and shining head, and complacently seated himself on the sofa.
First of all, dear friend, tell me how you are. Set your friends mind at rest, said he without altering his tone, beneath the politeness and affected sympathy of which indifference and even irony could be discerned.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This actually made me lol. GG.:redface:
Listen here El pino grijio pasta fazuul nook nook click boom patty O gabbins McSanchez of the sea... desu.
Shut up u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
OMG ITS TRUE! People in BASH will yell at you for being bad and getting killed a lot!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
lik ohmehgehrd hai ! :biggrin: