lol.
1. Neither of those are unbeatable in every situation. With more people queuing, there are more people to fight against those builds.
2. Neither of those builds are probably "working as intended", thus will probably be nerfed soon especially if more people complain about them and know what to complain about.
Actually, posts like this can be really helpful.
I have seen people who use certain builds themselves make posts bragging about what they can do in a certain build, only to see it prompting nerfed.
Knowledge is Power.
Queue for the Hero Games people and use your knowledge for good, not for evil!~:redface:
First of all no they aren't unbeatable in every situation. The invuln mind break build has a massive flaw when trying to kill people. If people know that all they need to do is run away when too many DoT stacks go onto them they can just go behind LoS until all the ticks go and you wont die to a mind break tank build. However it did still used to take us 4 or so people with some pretty high damage, I think it was me nicki and a few others to actually kill Seraphim when he used to use the build.
The SS build would need a lot of you to actually be hunting the person and even so a super tank with high resist, high hp, a fair amount of dodge/avoidance who also is very hard to see in teleport and has smoke grenade with perma active defences it is generally rather hard to die with this. The only way technically would be to all burst at the same time when he is stunned / knocked but it'd be rather hard to do.
Luckily both these builds are rather boring to play and so no one really uses them. They are the way to never lose so technically the ultimate in "try hard" however even what people call "try hards" don't really use the builds like this. I suppose they are slightly more complex than a cheesey AOPM build to craft/build.
The funniest thing about your post was that you bought up the word "nerf" as if this is CO in 2009-2011. Crush knew about the active defence cycling and was planning to fix it however he didn't get to it before being moved, who knows if anyone will ever actually do it. The mind break build was a broken build from the start created by random changes to powers and new powers being put in which weren't thought over enough. The "unbreakable fix" ended up breaking the ability more almost making it god mode against small ticks of damage pretty much making a fairly small amount of attack powers more viable against people who spam unbreakable in rotation with MD to be unkillable by the small ticks. Mind break is the only counter as it's broken and goes right through unbreakable.
Unbreakable is however most broken when using with invulnerability. The numbers simply do not add up, something is going wrong in the damage multiplication. Using unbreakable with invuln does like 3-4x more flat damage reduction than it should be doing as if it counts it multiple times.
It'd be unlikely to see any real nerfs to anything any time soon other than if this rumour of new content turns out to also have new balance changes involved... -__-
AOPM is good but it's like a noobs idea of "the best" as it will not beat everything and never lose like the other two above.
When you said "the other two" you were referring to the builds that you mentioned. So, in a round about way, you said that those two builds are unbeatable in every situation. My response was that those two builds are not unbeatable in every situation.
In your next post you actually back up my point that these builds are not unbeatable with possible examples of ways to beat them.
The invuln mind break build has a massive flaw when trying to kill people. If people know that all they need to do is run away when too many DoT stacks go onto them they can just go behind LoS until all the ticks go and you wont die to a mind break tank build. However it did still used to take us 4 or so people with some pretty high damage, I think it was me nicki and a few others to actually kill Seraphim when he used to use the build.
The SS build would need a lot of you to actually be hunting the person and even so a super tank with high resist, high hp, a fair amount of dodge/avoidance who also is very hard to see in teleport and has smoke grenade with perma active defences it is generally rather hard to die with this. The only way technically would be to all burst at the same time when he is stunned / knocked but it'd be rather hard to do.
:rolleyes:Anyways,as far as the "nerfing" issue is concerned, more people talking and getting the conversation out there is important I think. Also, sending in bug reports in game and also posts like the one regarding active defense cycling on the PTS forum. These types of things do spark change.
Though the "fix" may not have been what people wanted, look at what happened with Throwing Blades.
Things have been and are being done to make CO better.
I wonder could it be possible for the new team to glean any information from Crush himself regarding things like the active defense cycling? Hmm.
But yeah, not sure why you found my post soo funny when you actually agree with most of it, just from a more pessimistic view point.:redface:
Ok. I was responding to the post in which you wrote.
When you said "the other two" you were referring to the builds that you mentioned. So, in a round about way, you said that those two builds are unbeatable in every situation. My response was that those two builds are not unbeatable in every situation.
In your next post you actually back up my point that these builds are not unbeatable with possible examples of ways to beat them.
Yet once again you identify these builds as..
Well you can't beat them without having 5 people. 5v1 is hardly a victory...
:rolleyes:Anyways,as far as the "nerfing" issue is concerned, more people talking and getting the conversation out there is important I think. Also, sending in bug reports in game and also posts like the one regarding active defense cycling on the PTS forum. These types of things do spark change.
Though the "fix" may not have been what people wanted, look at what happened with Throwing Blades.
Things have been and are being done to make CO better.
I wonder could it be possible for the new team to glean any information from Crush himself regarding things like the active defense cycling? Hmm.
But yeah, not sure why you found my post soo funny when you actually agree with most of it, just from a more pessimistic view point.:redface:
Ohhh how I hate that rolleye emote. <_<
Anyway, as I said they know of the active defence issue and I have posted a lot on it in the past. I wouldn't want to spam the forums with something the devs already know about.
Throwing blades was very poorly dealt with and certainly wasn't a "nerf" it was a fix they were forced to introduced just like the emote spamming that was causing the game to be unplayable for many due to people exploiting.
As I said I didn't agree that the builds could be "beat" as in killed by any less than 3 top PvP burst DPS who know what they are doing. Unless that is what you meant by them being beatable. However it was the positivity you had in the 2nd one where you said "2. Neither of those builds are probably "working as intended", thus will probably be nerfed soon especially if more people complain about them and know what to complain about." Infact probably the funniest thing here is that you said it'd be nerfed as it wasn't "working as intended" but I'd have to put it to you if you think any build is working as intended in CO.
My rising knee build only works as rising knee has no RNG for knock, it's a 100% chance. Also demolish builds manipulator... Yup seems to work as intended. Fact is that it isn't at all a game breaking build but the only reason it's a viable build is because it isn't working as intended. CO is a complex game and to truly make every build to work as intended it would need a totally overhaul of every power with a team of good game designers no just one guy.
Well you can't beat them without having 5 people. 5v1 is hardly a victory...
"Never" is an absolute term. If you say something will never happen and then give ways that it could happen, no matter how outrageous or slim of a chance, you disprove your first statement.
Anyway, as I said they know of the active defence issue and I have posted a lot on it in the past. I wouldn't want to spam the forums with something the devs already know about.
Continuing to discuss and ask for a resolution to an issue that may be plaguing CO is not spamming as long as it is done in a mature way.
Also, I wouldn't assume the devs know of an issue unless they have acknowledged it. I don't know what information if any was passed on to the new team from Crush in regards to the active defense cycling which is why I raised that question. Not saying that he, one person, could be the lone survivor in the situation, but that maybe some information on the issue from him may help.
Throwing blades was very poorly dealt with and certainly wasn't a "nerf" it was a fix they were forced to introduced just like the emote spamming that was causing the game to be unplayable for many due to people exploiting.
As I'm sure you know, the term "Nerf" is not a term exclusive to CO in regards to the "gaming realm". It really just means any "...change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element." Reasoning behind the change has nothing to do with the term.
So according to the definition, Throwing blades was Nerfed.
As I said I didn't agree that the builds could be "beat" as in killed by any less than 3 top PvP burst DPS who know what they are doing. Unless that is what you meant by them being beatable.
However it was the positivity you had in the 2nd one where you said "2. Neither of those builds are probably "working as intended", thus will probably be nerfed soon especially if more people complain about them and know what to complain about." Infact probably the funniest thing here is that you said it'd be nerfed as it wasn't "working as intended" but I'd have to put it to you if you think any build is working as intended in CO.
You yourself said that at least the active defense cycling build was not working as intended when you said that Crush had plans to fix it.
The Devs do ask for feedback, bug reports, etc. When there is a big issue like with the "mind break" build, it may be helpful for someone to post the information on the forum and have multiple people make the same bug report ingame, thus making it harder for the concern to be overlooked.
Instead of focusing on problems and remaining dormant, let's focus on trying to find solutions.
Queue up for the Hero Games and be apart of the solution and not the problem!~:redface:
Well I can't really be asked to do a too long winded debate here about something which only about 10 people will care about and see, most likely less. However I would be now inclined to tell you that almost every power in CO could use tweaking. Saying that balance is down to a single build certainly isn't correct as pretty much every build in PvP offends the exact same balance issues. Not saying that they are all clone builds at all but how else to you not die in one hit without doing one of them and how will you kill anyone who has tried not to die in one hit.
Nerf is a informal slang term so I wouldn't really say it has a definitive definition however saying that would you of called a bug fix where a power's maths could sometimes bug out to instant kill someone for some odd reason to be fixed and made so it doesn't happen a nerf? I suppose it is in a way however it is not at all the same as actually just reducing cooldown reduction by a bit. It is a broken mechanic that isn't intended but in no way similar to throwing blades exploiting.
Let me just put it this way, do these bugs make the game unplayable for the majority of the population in game? If so then they'll fix it within a few weeks to a month depending on what it is. Don't expect them to however fix the issues with balance in PvP pretty much ever unless they suddenly decide to give powers an overhaul.
Not all the devs even read the forums, certainly I know the ones who crush was telling about the power changes he had in mind don't speak on the forums and most likely don't really look at it.
So far, there have been 257 replies and 7,128 views of this thread.There actually may be more than 10 people who keep up with this thread even if they don't post here.
CO is not perfect. ok
There are some Jerky people who play this game. ok.
If we as a community come together to have the most glaring game breaking issues taken care of regarding the hero games, change for the better will happen.
If we as a community come together to fight against players displaying unsportsmanlike conduct, change for the better will happen.
I mean if you like CO (in general) and want to see a resurgence of the Hero Games,
and want to see this game get better in general, then why not try to make things better?
Queue for the Hero Games and make in game bug reports of game breaking issues! Be apart of the solution and not the problem!~:redface:
So far, there have been 257 replies and 7,128 views of this thread.There actually may be more than 10 people who keep up with this thread even if they don't post here.
CO is not perfect. ok
There are some Jerky people who play this game. ok.
If we as a community come together to have the most glaring game breaking issues taken care of regarding the hero games, change for the better will happen.
If we as a community come together to fight against players displaying unsportsmanlike conduct, change for the better will happen.
I mean if you like CO (in general) and want to see a resurgence of the Hero Games,
and want to see this game get better in general, then why not try to make things better?
Queue for the Hero Games and make in game bug reports of game breaking issues! Be apart of the solution and not the problem!~:redface:
I meant it as in people actually reading the specific debate we are having right here. <_< The thread is pretty old and was originally started by me, it's been the top thread in this section for a while the I don't believe the view count is unique, it may be who knows.
You don't seem to understand the situation we are in, if there is anything I can do to help CO's PvP situation I'll do what I can but there is only so long you can put up with playing a game based on the concept instead of the actual game. I still like playing CO and will come on now and again naturally but without anything to interest me I basically just end up using it as an AFK simulator.
You simply don't understand that you wont be able to change the blatant business idea / plan that PWE put in place to keep CO making money in the long run. There is no argument there, I'm not saying anything against CO so calm down I'm just telling it like it is.
There are some things they can fix by changing a few numbers IMO such as the kicking bug happens as 10 people don't join up at the same time. Ironically we also ask for them to have a lower join amount but this would just make the bug worse. I would love to have an arena game mode if they ever did look into doing something for coPvP, like 2v2 / 3v3 etc. It'd be kinda fun and easy to get going.
I meant it as in people actually reading the specific debate we are having right here. <_< The thread is pretty old and was originally started by me, it's been the top thread in this section for a while the I don't believe the view count is unique, it may be who knows.
You don't seem to understand the situation we are in, if there is anything I can do to help CO's PvP situation I'll do what I can but there is only so long you can put up with playing a game based on the concept instead of the actual game. I still like playing CO and will come on now and again naturally but without anything to interest me I basically just end up using it as an AFK simulator.
You simply don't understand that you wont be able to change the blatant business idea / plan that PWE put in place to keep CO making money in the long run. There is no argument there, I'm not saying anything against CO so calm down I'm just telling it like it is.
There are some things they can fix by changing a few numbers IMO such as the kicking bug happens as 10 people don't join up at the same time. Ironically we also ask for them to have a lower join amount but this would just make the bug worse. I would love to have an arena game mode if they ever did look into doing something for coPvP, like 2v2 / 3v3 etc. It'd be kinda fun and easy to get going.
Well I think posting on the forums and sending in bug reports ingame can help on two fronts.
1. It can help identify bugs and issues that the Devs may not know about.
2. It can show that there is an interest in having a particular bug fixed or issue resolved which may bump up it's rank on a priority list.
Let's say the Devs do know about Bugs and issues regarding the Hero Games.
-Why should they make it a priority to do bug fixes in the Hero Games and correct issues if it appears that there is little to no interest in that part of the game?
-Why should they prioritize Hero Game fixes over things that people have shown interest in and things they have monetized like auras, costume sets, and vehicles?
This is why I think it is important to show that people are interested in this part of the game by writing on the forums, doing bug reports ingame, and actually queuing for the Hero Games.
If enough of us do these things, it will show that there is an interest in the Hero Games by a significant number of people, which should hopefully make Hero Games concerns a higher priority to the Devs. Also, with more people doing these things, it will be harder for these issues to be overlooked if they are not known about by the Devs.
Soo to sum it up, in a nest of many baby birds, we have to keep chirping if we want to be fed.
Keep Posting here on the forums and keep sending in those bug reports ingame.
Queue For the Hero Games Today for a Better Hero Games in the Future :redface:.
I consider the one I posted only "slightly" more annoying than Fukkireta. Infact I think when we did CO PvP to that we lasted like 2-3 hours or was it longer.
Sorry Hun, if I would stand a chance with my Symbolic builds I wouldn't mind participating PvP sometimes but as is, I don't ... I ain't throwing myself at a futile endevour no matter how much incentive, it won't help.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
So to share some (zombie apocalypse) pvp experience...
I queued up with a friend who only does very casual pvp, which seems to mark her immediately as the sole target for some people, even when she was playing a low damage tank build. After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite. And yes I am aware this is "just some people" and that there are probably also pvpers who would not react that way to new people trying pvp. But that matters little in the end for the people who tried it.
So to share some (zombie apocalypse) pvp experience...
I queued up with a friend who only does very casual pvp, which seems to mark her immediately as the sole target for some people, even when she was playing a low damage tank build. After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite. And yes I am aware this is "just some people" and that there are probably also pvpers who would not react that way to new people trying pvp. But that matters little in the end for the people who tried it.
What you just illustrated is not a problem with the game's players - the moment you try to paint someone as doing something wrong because they attacked another player, any player, then you've completely lost the plot. This is pvp - anyone with a smidgen of reasoning ability should realize that they are going to be attacked, quite possibly by more than one player, and that the players attacking them may very well go hard and fast in an attempt to defeat them.
The actual, real problem with pvp is two very specific things, neither of which are controlled by the players. Game balance, and the programming of the queue. Balance is easy to see - some builds are godlike, others are very very mortal, and the gap is simply too wide and it's too easy to randomly end up at any point along the gradient. The other issue is the hero games que - for one, there's the kick bug, and for the other it has a tendency of just throwing people into BASH much more often than any of the other games. BASH is a terrible idea; there's a reason most proffesional wrestling matches are 1v1 or team vs team.... because if every match was a free-for-all then you wouldn't be able to maintain any of the storylines because everyone would hate everyone and it would be hard to tell the faces from the heels.
I did expect the first reaction to completely miss the point I made. Unfortunately I got what I expected, for some reason I did expect more out of you.. ah well.
How is "constantly being ganging up on by all players being zombie, to the point of ignoring any other player" in any way similar to "reasonably expecting to be attacked when doing pvp"? And if that is what you really think is reasonable and normal for anyone having a look how pvp in CO works, no big surprise it is pretty much dead and will stay so.
And while it was "hard" it wasn't fast. I already said she played a tank, she held out of 17 minutes or so in the second run, that is how it was so obvious who was being targeted.
So to share some (zombie apocalypse) pvp experience...
I queued up with a friend who only does very casual pvp, which seems to mark her immediately as the sole target for some people, even when she was playing a low damage tank build. After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite. And yes I am aware this is "just some people" and that there are probably also pvpers who would not react that way to new people trying pvp. But that matters little in the end for the people who tried it.
>_> I think I remember you I ganked you so hard, which is shameful cause I am a roleplayer. So yeah I can understand your rage. Getting constantly killed by a Club C erper would piss anyone off.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
>_> I think I remember you I ganked you so hard, which is shameful cause I am a roleplayer. So yeah I can understand your rage. Getting constantly killed by a Club C erper would piss anyone off.
I know I know I should have written in hieroglyphs, but darn google translate doesn't has those yet. *throws ball of yarn against Nepht's nose*
Being a lone zombie in ZA is very hard especially for someone new to PvP. You have to have patience and have to expect to be ganked. You respawn right away anyway so dieing doesn't matter at all, there is a reason it doesn't show deaths in ZA as it was designed so that zombies would die a lot.
The fact they were playing a tanky character doesn't really make being a zombie any easier, infact if anything makes it harder.
Also I don't really remember it so I don't think I would of been one of the people ganking, maybe I was sorry can't really remember. Was this one I was using ricochet and was having a go at nepht for not tanking the zombies well enough? ;D
Saying you are being "picked on" in ZA is VERY un true, it is simply that way.
If however you guys went into BASH and one guy killed your friend like atleast 6 times to get the win or various people kept killing him then yes that would be getting picked on. Or in UTC if the other team just farmed him as soon as he left spawn to get the win, yes that would be getting picked on. How do I know? Because both have happened to me as well as anyone else who PvP's in this game.
The game is designed like this, it wasn't at all him being picked on it's just clearly he isn't a PvP'er. You can't make someone who doesn't enjoy PvP get into it because most likely they aren't they kind of person who gets inspired after dieing, usually they are the kind of person who wouldn't bother with giving it another go a different way.
Don't blame the community that not every type of gamer enjoys PvP in this game.
That would be true if my friend was the zombie, however she was not.
It began with one zombie, but over time a few more people logged on who also started as zombie. Which in the end was just 3 or 4 people only attacking one player for almost the full duration of the fight.
There was a dps player standing on the roof most of the fight who got completely ignored. I got maybe hit a handfull of times in a >15 minutes fight, until everyone else died and all teamed up on me (that last part is of course normal and completely expected). Then we tried again and again it was the same.
Like I said I know this just a few people, in a handfull of fights. But on the other hand, the whole of pvp in CO is just a few people doing a handfull of fights.
So what I wanted to convey to the regulars here, is when you see someone new trying their hand in pvp don't see that is a good oportunity to gang up on them as an "easy kill" unless you like your pvp as underpopulated as it is.
That would be true if my friend was the zombie, however she was not.
It began with one zombie, but over time a few more people logged on who also started as zombie. Which in the end was just 3 or 4 people only attacking one player for almost the full duration of the fight.
There was a dps player standing on the roof most of the fight who got completely ignored. I got maybe hit a handfull of times in a >15 minutes fight, until everyone else died and all teamed up on me (that last part is of course normal and completely expected). Then we tried again and again it was the same.
Like I said I know this just a few people, in a handfull of fights. But on the other hand, the whole of pvp in CO is just a few people doing a handfull of fights.
So what I wanted to convey to the regulars here, is when you see someone new trying their hand in pvp don't see that is a good oportunity to gang up on them as an "easy kill" unless you like your pvp as underpopulated as it is.
So you are complaining that the zombies targeted them first? @_@ Who they target is really up to them in zombie apoc, it's not like after killing him the first time they are gonna get farmed. As soon as you die you respawn as zombie, or at least you should do. The fact that all the damage was on them is kinda funny especially if they are a tank it seems more like that's their job to take the damage. Just saying but complaining about people attacking you for an entire fight over your team and not managing to kill you other than once really isn't much reason to complain. 0.o
But yeah pretty much ZA isn't the best of hero games every time. Sometimes it lasts a while and is a really great match. However sometimes it's just a whitewash and ends in seconds or there are no zombies other than one guy who can't kill anyone.
I don't see what you expect us to do about this, it's almost as if you are having a go at the regulars in PvP for the fact in most MMO's I know you should always take out the easiest to kill first. The fact that he wasn't the easiest to kill out of the survivors just means that he is making sure the squishier guys don't die.
Really the fact that we don't all stop attacking the new guys isn't the reason PvP is the way it is.
So you are complaining that the zombies targeted them first? @_@ Who they target is really up to them in zombie apoc, it's not like after killing him the first time they are gonna get farmed. As soon as you die you respawn as zombie, or at least you should do. The fact that all the damage was on them is kinda funny especially if they are a tank it seems more like that's their job to take the damage. Just saying but complaining about people attacking you for an entire fight over your team and not managing to kill you other than once really isn't much reason to complain. 0.o
That is completely missing the point, I don't know how I can explain things in a way you'd understand. In my own view I am being pretty clear in my wording.
But yeah pretty much ZA isn't the best of hero games every time. Sometimes it lasts a while and is a really great match. However sometimes it's just a whitewash and ends in seconds or there are no zombies other than one guy who can't kill anyone.
I don't see what you expect us to do about this, it's almost as if you are having a go at the regulars in PvP for the fact in most MMO's I know you should always take out the easiest to kill first. The fact that he wasn't the easiest to kill out of the survivors just means that he is making sure the squishier guys don't die.
I know how the fight works.
I don't expect anyone to do anything about things. I was showing an experience with how things look for someone trying their hand at CO pvp. What anyone wants to do with it, is their own choice I am not telling you what you should think or do about it.
That is completely missing the point, I don't know how I can explain things in a way you'd understand. In my own view I am being pretty clear in my wording.
I know how the fight works.
I don't expect anyone to do anything about things. I was showing an experience with how things look for someone trying their hand at CO pvp. What anyone wants to do with it, is their own choice I am not telling you what you should think or do about it.
.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but the experience you showed here...was that of a new to pvp tank...being attacked by all the zombies in ZA...and lasting 17 minutes.
That's a pretty good feat.
I think you and your friend are looking at that situation in the wrong way. If anything...you would think something like that should make pvp fun for a tank type.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but the experience you showed here...was that of a new to pvp tank...being attacked by all the zombies in ZA...and lasting 17 minutes.
That's a pretty good feat.
I'm really not sure what that person, or you, has to complain about.
Where you go wrong is where you are setting all empathy aside.
The point I made was how things looks to a player giving pvp a try and then is singled out as the sole target by multiple people multiple times, while other players are ignored.
Quoting the OP:
We need ideas on how we can get a "friendly" and active Pvp community build up again.
I am telling you this doesn't come off as friendly, nor is very inviting to become a more active pvper.
This isn't a evaluation off the pvp community as a whole, more a sharing of a (bad) experience that pvp vets might want to take note off.. or not, that is up to everyone individually.
I did expect the first reaction to completely miss the point I made. Unfortunately I got what I expected, for some reason I did expect more out of you.. ah well.
How is "constantly being ganging up on by all players being zombie, to the point of ignoring any other player" in any way similar to "reasonably expecting to be attacked when doing pvp"? And if that is what you really think is reasonable and normal for anyone having a look how pvp in CO works, no big surprise it is pretty much dead and will stay so.
And while it was "hard" it wasn't fast. I already said she played a tank, she held out of 17 minutes or so in the second run, that is how it was so obvious who was being targeted.
Then what the hell is she complaining about?
Are you not aware that "attack the tank, ignore the squishies" is actually the polite thing for pvpers to do?
Your friend sounds like some spoiled brat who whines because the "big bad pvpers" won't leave them alone to pve the zombies. So do you.
Hell, if they survived "17 or so minutes" then the "vicious malicious big bad pvpers" weren't even in the game with you, cause they would have nuked your noob friend in under ten seconds.
Are you not aware that "attack the tank, ignore the squishies" is actually the polite thing for pvpers to do?
Your friend sounds like some spoiled brat who whines because the "big bad pvpers" won't leave them alone to pve the zombies. So do you.
Do you really think it is a wonder pvp is dead with an attitude like that?
The more replies I get in this thread, the more I am starting to agree with a certain dev.
/edit
Considering it a few minutes, that is more an individual thing, not aimed at the other people who replied.
Where you go wrong is where you are setting all empathy aside.
The point I made was how things looks to a player giving pvp a try and then is singled out as the sole target by multiple people multiple times, while other players are ignored.
Quoting the OP:
I am telling you this doesn't come off as friendly, nor is very inviting to become a more active pvper.
This isn't a evaluation off the pvp community as a whole, more a sharing of a (bad) experience that pvp vets might want to take note off.. or not, that is up to everyone individually.
I don't think it's fair to say I'm setting all empathy aside.
What I'm doing...is looking at the bright side of that situation...and trying to point it out to you and your friend...because it's a huge bright side.
Honestly, being the sole target of all the player zombies...and lasting 17 minutes...being only your first or second time in pvp...is damn good...and is something the person should feel good about.
Another thing...the fact that the person lasted 17 minutes...is probably the main reason everyone attacked them. Not because they were new to pvp...but because they were incredibly durable. People like to test their builds...and it turned out that your friend was the best test for people there.
When someone is in Bash, getting constantly ganked because of how new and "squishy" they are...or being spawn killed...then there is a problem.
However, if you're taking the best of what other players can give, and lasting 17 minutes...then that is just awesome.
I get that your friend didn't want, or expect, to be targetted by everyone like that...but the fact is...they kind of have something to brag about now...being so new and able to last so long.
I do agree that is also a side of things.
Thank you for the well thought out reply.
And my apologies of being a little harsh with the claim about empathy.
I am just missing the I understand what you are saying, but in all responses I am getting.
Do you really think it is a wonder pvp is dead with an attitude like that?
The more replies I get in this thread, the more I am starting to agree with a certain dev.
/edit
Considering it a few minutes, that is more an individual thing, not aimed at the other people who replied.
I know just what that was a reference to and now I'm a little angry but I'm not gonna go turning my own thread into no flame war...
Literally though do you realise you are blaming whoever was in there at the time just for trying to kill the survivors WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT IN THE GAME MODE where you managed to survive for 17 minutes still. How can you even complain about this, it's just beyond me. Clearly PvP isn't for your friend or at least zombie apocalypse if they bring along a tank as and expect to not be hit ever when the entire point is to turn them into a zombie.
Just please, leave this thread your point is incredibly invalid and the way you are blaming the community (and others) for it is ridiculous.
Also just a FYI I put friendly in speech marks for a reason. It is in reference to trash talk / ganking / exploiting / flame wars whenever specific people die once / general harassment. I was not however referring to what you are saying being friendly is which is apparently not attacking specific people on the enemy team in PvP. I understand the fact your friend may of felt they were being ganked however the fact they lasted for 17 minutes taking pressure off the rest of the team and almost winning the match makes it not seem like this was at all a bad thing to happen.
I know just what that was a reference to and now I'm a little angry but I'm not gonna go turning my own thread into no flame war...
Literally though do you realise you are blaming whoever was in there at the time just for trying to kill the survivors WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT IN THE GAME MODE where you managed to survive for 17 minutes still. How can you even complain about this, it's just beyond me. Clearly PvP isn't for your friend or at least zombie apocalypse if they bring along a tank as and expect to not be hit ever when the entire point is to turn them into a zombie.
Just please, leave this thread your point is incredibly invalid and the way you are blaming the community (and others) for it is ridiculous.
Getting angry when you keep replying to what I am not saying is a little odd. What are you actually getting mad at? I have been posting one negative experience, and apparently that is too much for some people to handle. By the same people who are ironically then blame me for being thin skinned. I wasnt planning on going on about it at all, but at every turn it seems like I am being told that my experience is invalid or I am wrong, and that is not something Ill just let slide.
Ill give you some advise, though I am pretty sure it will fall on deaf ears now. When someone says someone negative about pvp, particularly something you were not present at, dont try to deny it. If you feel it is not representative about how pvp usually goes just say that explicitly. Or of you feel it is normal behavior, you can also just say that. A that is how pvp in CO is, so maybe it is not for you is a lot different from trying to prove my experience invalid. Arguing someone experiences are invalid will never get you anywhere.
In regards to Foxi, she made a direct personal attack at me, so I am very much entitled to the reply I gave her, her attitude is beyond bad. I also edited it once I realized it was to general in its meaning.
I have even stated explicitly multiple times this is not a targeted to any community as a whole, but was an experience to how things can go. And yes things like that do reflect on pvpers.
Surviving for 17 minutes is all I needed to hear. It generally meant that nothing at all went wrong, it's not like you've told me any trash talking has occurred or anything on top of the fact your friend was attacked by the zombies more than the rest of the survivors. There is nothing wrong there what-so-ever.
that is how pvp in CO is, so maybe it is not for you Is what I said a few times and it is the reason I stated as why your point on the reason PvP isn't populated is invalid.
What I don't like is your attitude, why you think I am angry at the fact your friend didn't enjoy their hero games experience I have no idea. What got me annoyed was where you did the reference to the "certain dev." Unless I am mistaking what this was a reference to I believe I am rightful in my place to take offence to that.
Anyway enough of this, arguing about such a stupid thing is really not going to get us anywhere.
I know I know I should have written in hieroglyphs, but darn google translate doesn't has those yet. *throws ball of yarn against Nepht's nose*
Haha indeed. JKN aside yeah I agree the mass ganking of people knew to PvP is sorta outta control. BUT its done by only a couple of PvPers most of them frown against mass ganking.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
So to share some (zombie apocalypse) pvp experience...
I queued up with a friend who only does very casual pvp, which seems to mark her immediately as the sole target for some people, even when she was playing a low damage tank build. After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite. And yes I am aware this is "just some people" and that there are probably also pvpers who would not react that way to new people trying pvp. But that matters little in the end for the people who tried it.
"Bad experiences" can happen to someone new to any game or anything in general.
You are blaming PvPers. The fact is that Cryptic ruined PvP on purpose and made it even more unwelcoming and hostile to anyone trying it out for the first time. Personally.. I don't give a **** if COPvP gets more popular or remains as dead as it is. It's all Cryptic's fault.
You are an ***hole for blaming people who, in the end, are sitting behind a screen the same as you.
I'll make it a personal mission to farm the **** out of you if you ever step foot in a Hero Game again. Same goes for your friend. In fact, I'ma farm every new player I see just to be sure. And hey, this is all your fault for bringing this attitude with pages of blaming to the forums.
When a newb starts crying, I'll be sure to let them know to blame aiqa.
Haha indeed. JKN aside yeah I agree the mass ganking of people knew to PvP is sorta outta control. BUT its done by only a couple of PvPers most of them frown against mass ganking.
Here's the thing though, this couldn't really be considered mass ganking.
I'll make it a personal mission to farm the **** out of you if you ever step foot in a Hero Game again. Same goes for your friend. In fact, I'ma farm every new player I see just to be sure. And hey, this is all your fault for bringing this attitude with pages of blaming to the forums.
When a newb starts crying, I'll be sure to let them know to blame aiqa.
The community doesn't always have to be nice and we certainly do not have to apologize for anything. Some people want us to be the villain. I'm happy to oblige.
Do you really think it is a wonder pvp is dead with an attitude like that?
The more replies I get in this thread, the more I am starting to agree with a certain dev.
/edit
Considering it a few minutes, that is more an individual thing, not aimed at the other people who replied.
The irony being that you're talking to someone who goes out of their way to let new pvpers kill them so that they have as much fun as everyone else.
Your crusade has the aim of a drunk person with one eye who just got done spinning around for ten minutes straight.
Since you seem to be confused about why people took offense to your post... it's somewhere around this part of it:
After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite.
You remember right? The part where you tried to demonize pvpers for daring to use a common pvp tactic on your friend in pursuit of the stated goal of the game your friend willingly joined? (Except, the more commonly accepted tactic is to swarm the squishy dps first... not the tank).
Pointing out that it's "only some" doesn't change anything... especially at the point where it became clear that your criteria for those "some" is in no way based on actual examples of abusive behavior. Oh no, people attacked a tank (the person who is supposed to want people to attack them...do you know how many times in mmo history tanks have complained of their inability to get pvpers to focus on them?), the horror.
Haha indeed. JKN aside yeah I agree the mass ganking of people knew to PvP is sorta outta control. BUT its done by only a couple of PvPers most of them frown against mass ganking.
Nepht, we're talking about the zombies in ZA. Mass ganking in ZA is called "playing correctly". Who goes into a zombie-themed thing then complains that they're being swarmed by zombies? u_u
Comments
HA
This made me laugh too hard, sorry. <_<
First of all no they aren't unbeatable in every situation. The invuln mind break build has a massive flaw when trying to kill people. If people know that all they need to do is run away when too many DoT stacks go onto them they can just go behind LoS until all the ticks go and you wont die to a mind break tank build. However it did still used to take us 4 or so people with some pretty high damage, I think it was me nicki and a few others to actually kill Seraphim when he used to use the build.
The SS build would need a lot of you to actually be hunting the person and even so a super tank with high resist, high hp, a fair amount of dodge/avoidance who also is very hard to see in teleport and has smoke grenade with perma active defences it is generally rather hard to die with this. The only way technically would be to all burst at the same time when he is stunned / knocked but it'd be rather hard to do.
Luckily both these builds are rather boring to play and so no one really uses them. They are the way to never lose so technically the ultimate in "try hard" however even what people call "try hards" don't really use the builds like this. I suppose they are slightly more complex than a cheesey AOPM build to craft/build.
The funniest thing about your post was that you bought up the word "nerf" as if this is CO in 2009-2011. Crush knew about the active defence cycling and was planning to fix it however he didn't get to it before being moved, who knows if anyone will ever actually do it. The mind break build was a broken build from the start created by random changes to powers and new powers being put in which weren't thought over enough. The "unbreakable fix" ended up breaking the ability more almost making it god mode against small ticks of damage pretty much making a fairly small amount of attack powers more viable against people who spam unbreakable in rotation with MD to be unkillable by the small ticks. Mind break is the only counter as it's broken and goes right through unbreakable.
Unbreakable is however most broken when using with invulnerability. The numbers simply do not add up, something is going wrong in the damage multiplication. Using unbreakable with invuln does like 3-4x more flat damage reduction than it should be doing as if it counts it multiple times.
It'd be unlikely to see any real nerfs to anything any time soon other than if this rumour of new content turns out to also have new balance changes involved... -__-
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I encourage everyone to give support on this thread.
When you said "the other two" you were referring to the builds that you mentioned. So, in a round about way, you said that those two builds are unbeatable in every situation. My response was that those two builds are not unbeatable in every situation.
In your next post you actually back up my point that these builds are not unbeatable with possible examples of ways to beat them.
Yet once again you identify these builds as..
:rolleyes:Anyways,as far as the "nerfing" issue is concerned, more people talking and getting the conversation out there is important I think. Also, sending in bug reports in game and also posts like the one regarding active defense cycling on the PTS forum. These types of things do spark change.
Though the "fix" may not have been what people wanted, look at what happened with Throwing Blades.
Things have been and are being done to make CO better.
I wonder could it be possible for the new team to glean any information from Crush himself regarding things like the active defense cycling? Hmm.
But yeah, not sure why you found my post soo funny when you actually agree with most of it, just from a more pessimistic view point.:redface:
Well you can't beat them without having 5 people. 5v1 is hardly a victory...
Ohhh how I hate that rolleye emote. <_<
Anyway, as I said they know of the active defence issue and I have posted a lot on it in the past. I wouldn't want to spam the forums with something the devs already know about.
Throwing blades was very poorly dealt with and certainly wasn't a "nerf" it was a fix they were forced to introduced just like the emote spamming that was causing the game to be unplayable for many due to people exploiting.
As I said I didn't agree that the builds could be "beat" as in killed by any less than 3 top PvP burst DPS who know what they are doing. Unless that is what you meant by them being beatable. However it was the positivity you had in the 2nd one where you said "2. Neither of those builds are probably "working as intended", thus will probably be nerfed soon especially if more people complain about them and know what to complain about." Infact probably the funniest thing here is that you said it'd be nerfed as it wasn't "working as intended" but I'd have to put it to you if you think any build is working as intended in CO.
My rising knee build only works as rising knee has no RNG for knock, it's a 100% chance. Also demolish builds manipulator... Yup seems to work as intended. Fact is that it isn't at all a game breaking build but the only reason it's a viable build is because it isn't working as intended. CO is a complex game and to truly make every build to work as intended it would need a totally overhaul of every power with a team of good game designers no just one guy.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Continuing to discuss and ask for a resolution to an issue that may be plaguing CO is not spamming as long as it is done in a mature way.
Also, I wouldn't assume the devs know of an issue unless they have acknowledged it. I don't know what information if any was passed on to the new team from Crush in regards to the active defense cycling which is why I raised that question. Not saying that he, one person, could be the lone survivor in the situation, but that maybe some information on the issue from him may help.
As I'm sure you know, the term "Nerf" is not a term exclusive to CO in regards to the "gaming realm". It really just means any "...change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element." Reasoning behind the change has nothing to do with the term.
So according to the definition, Throwing blades was Nerfed.
Source
See first response.
You yourself said that at least the active defense cycling build was not working as intended when you said that Crush had plans to fix it.
The Devs do ask for feedback, bug reports, etc. When there is a big issue like with the "mind break" build, it may be helpful for someone to post the information on the forum and have multiple people make the same bug report ingame, thus making it harder for the concern to be overlooked.
Instead of focusing on problems and remaining dormant, let's focus on trying to find solutions.
Queue up for the Hero Games and be apart of the solution and not the problem!~:redface:
Nerf is a informal slang term so I wouldn't really say it has a definitive definition however saying that would you of called a bug fix where a power's maths could sometimes bug out to instant kill someone for some odd reason to be fixed and made so it doesn't happen a nerf? I suppose it is in a way however it is not at all the same as actually just reducing cooldown reduction by a bit. It is a broken mechanic that isn't intended but in no way similar to throwing blades exploiting.
Let me just put it this way, do these bugs make the game unplayable for the majority of the population in game? If so then they'll fix it within a few weeks to a month depending on what it is. Don't expect them to however fix the issues with balance in PvP pretty much ever unless they suddenly decide to give powers an overhaul.
Not all the devs even read the forums, certainly I know the ones who crush was telling about the power changes he had in mind don't speak on the forums and most likely don't really look at it.
Anyway.... Yeah.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
CO is not perfect. ok
There are some Jerky people who play this game. ok.
If we as a community come together to have the most glaring game breaking issues taken care of regarding the hero games, change for the better will happen.
If we as a community come together to fight against players displaying unsportsmanlike conduct, change for the better will happen.
I mean if you like CO (in general) and want to see a resurgence of the Hero Games,
and want to see this game get better in general, then why not try to make things better?
Queue for the Hero Games and make in game bug reports of game breaking issues! Be apart of the solution and not the problem!~:redface:
I meant it as in people actually reading the specific debate we are having right here. <_< The thread is pretty old and was originally started by me, it's been the top thread in this section for a while the I don't believe the view count is unique, it may be who knows.
You don't seem to understand the situation we are in, if there is anything I can do to help CO's PvP situation I'll do what I can but there is only so long you can put up with playing a game based on the concept instead of the actual game. I still like playing CO and will come on now and again naturally but without anything to interest me I basically just end up using it as an AFK simulator.
You simply don't understand that you wont be able to change the blatant business idea / plan that PWE put in place to keep CO making money in the long run. There is no argument there, I'm not saying anything against CO so calm down I'm just telling it like it is.
Note, this is what PWE would feel like they were doing if they put lots of money into the work ballence issues would need and to attempt a fix for everything in PvP... :<
There are some things they can fix by changing a few numbers IMO such as the kicking bug happens as 10 people don't join up at the same time. Ironically we also ask for them to have a lower join amount but this would just make the bug worse. I would love to have an arena game mode if they ever did look into doing something for coPvP, like 2v2 / 3v3 etc. It'd be kinda fun and easy to get going.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
If you mean achievements by rewards then YEAH!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I actually log on to CO and queue for the Hero Games quite frequently.
I am very much aware of the state of the Hero Games right now and the state of this game in general.
I am certainly not delusional.
Here is a post I made on 5-30-2014 on the thread A PvPer's Reply (Please help us Cryptic) that I think answers the above quotes.
Source
Queue for Hero Games!
You'd literally end up like someone we know after that.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Yes WE CAN!! o3o
Deja vu!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I consider the one I posted only "slightly" more annoying than Fukkireta. Infact I think when we did CO PvP to that we lasted like 2-3 hours or was it longer.
Don't worry I found the most annoying 10 hour anime song there is. Check this out!
Oh crap it's only 1 hour, too bad but you wont last that on this one.
Okay this one is actually 10 hours but probably more annoying than anything yet.
DEATH!
Ew a wild foxi appears, you know nothing!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8MIAW2vYhc
fix kick bug then cum we in pvp back
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@Pallih in game
Yes odd moe anime clips played to random annoying songs is what I listen to all day every day!
Anyway I found Jewels song!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So he queue queued?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I queued up with a friend who only does very casual pvp, which seems to mark her immediately as the sole target for some people, even when she was playing a low damage tank build. After a few of those fight she said "I see how it goes" and stopped queuing.
Pvpers can talk all they want about how there need to be more people doing pvp, but when someone does try it and gets ganged up instantly by the more regular crowd, you will keep on wishing. And with only a handful people actually doing pvp, you will also just keep on wishing for your fixes.
Talking in the forums about how things need to be more inviting is pretty hollow when reality shows the opposite. And yes I am aware this is "just some people" and that there are probably also pvpers who would not react that way to new people trying pvp. But that matters little in the end for the people who tried it.
What you just illustrated is not a problem with the game's players - the moment you try to paint someone as doing something wrong because they attacked another player, any player, then you've completely lost the plot. This is pvp - anyone with a smidgen of reasoning ability should realize that they are going to be attacked, quite possibly by more than one player, and that the players attacking them may very well go hard and fast in an attempt to defeat them.
The actual, real problem with pvp is two very specific things, neither of which are controlled by the players. Game balance, and the programming of the queue. Balance is easy to see - some builds are godlike, others are very very mortal, and the gap is simply too wide and it's too easy to randomly end up at any point along the gradient. The other issue is the hero games que - for one, there's the kick bug, and for the other it has a tendency of just throwing people into BASH much more often than any of the other games. BASH is a terrible idea; there's a reason most proffesional wrestling matches are 1v1 or team vs team.... because if every match was a free-for-all then you wouldn't be able to maintain any of the storylines because everyone would hate everyone and it would be hard to tell the faces from the heels.
Blaming the players just makes you look salty.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I did expect the first reaction to completely miss the point I made. Unfortunately I got what I expected, for some reason I did expect more out of you.. ah well.
How is "constantly being ganging up on by all players being zombie, to the point of ignoring any other player" in any way similar to "reasonably expecting to be attacked when doing pvp"? And if that is what you really think is reasonable and normal for anyone having a look how pvp in CO works, no big surprise it is pretty much dead and will stay so.
And while it was "hard" it wasn't fast. I already said she played a tank, she held out of 17 minutes or so in the second run, that is how it was so obvious who was being targeted.
>_> I think I remember you I ganked you so hard, which is shameful cause I am a roleplayer. So yeah I can understand your rage. Getting constantly killed by a Club C erper would piss anyone off.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I know I know I should have written in hieroglyphs, but darn google translate doesn't has those yet. *throws ball of yarn against Nepht's nose*
The fact they were playing a tanky character doesn't really make being a zombie any easier, infact if anything makes it harder.
Also I don't really remember it so I don't think I would of been one of the people ganking, maybe I was sorry can't really remember. Was this one I was using ricochet and was having a go at nepht for not tanking the zombies well enough? ;D
Saying you are being "picked on" in ZA is VERY un true, it is simply that way.
If however you guys went into BASH and one guy killed your friend like atleast 6 times to get the win or various people kept killing him then yes that would be getting picked on. Or in UTC if the other team just farmed him as soon as he left spawn to get the win, yes that would be getting picked on. How do I know? Because both have happened to me as well as anyone else who PvP's in this game.
The game is designed like this, it wasn't at all him being picked on it's just clearly he isn't a PvP'er. You can't make someone who doesn't enjoy PvP get into it because most likely they aren't they kind of person who gets inspired after dieing, usually they are the kind of person who wouldn't bother with giving it another go a different way.
Don't blame the community that not every type of gamer enjoys PvP in this game.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
That would be true if my friend was the zombie, however she was not.
It began with one zombie, but over time a few more people logged on who also started as zombie. Which in the end was just 3 or 4 people only attacking one player for almost the full duration of the fight.
There was a dps player standing on the roof most of the fight who got completely ignored. I got maybe hit a handfull of times in a >15 minutes fight, until everyone else died and all teamed up on me (that last part is of course normal and completely expected). Then we tried again and again it was the same.
Like I said I know this just a few people, in a handfull of fights. But on the other hand, the whole of pvp in CO is just a few people doing a handfull of fights.
So what I wanted to convey to the regulars here, is when you see someone new trying their hand in pvp don't see that is a good oportunity to gang up on them as an "easy kill" unless you like your pvp as underpopulated as it is.
So you are complaining that the zombies targeted them first? @_@ Who they target is really up to them in zombie apoc, it's not like after killing him the first time they are gonna get farmed. As soon as you die you respawn as zombie, or at least you should do. The fact that all the damage was on them is kinda funny especially if they are a tank it seems more like that's their job to take the damage. Just saying but complaining about people attacking you for an entire fight over your team and not managing to kill you other than once really isn't much reason to complain. 0.o
But yeah pretty much ZA isn't the best of hero games every time. Sometimes it lasts a while and is a really great match. However sometimes it's just a whitewash and ends in seconds or there are no zombies other than one guy who can't kill anyone.
I don't see what you expect us to do about this, it's almost as if you are having a go at the regulars in PvP for the fact in most MMO's I know you should always take out the easiest to kill first. The fact that he wasn't the easiest to kill out of the survivors just means that he is making sure the squishier guys don't die.
Really the fact that we don't all stop attacking the new guys isn't the reason PvP is the way it is.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
That is completely missing the point, I don't know how I can explain things in a way you'd understand. In my own view I am being pretty clear in my wording.
I know how the fight works.
I don't expect anyone to do anything about things. I was showing an experience with how things look for someone trying their hand at CO pvp. What anyone wants to do with it, is their own choice I am not telling you what you should think or do about it.
And "everyone stop attacking a newby" is the same as "not all ganging up on a newby"... in what way? This is all a matter of numbers and nuance.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but the experience you showed here...was that of a new to pvp tank...being attacked by all the zombies in ZA...and lasting 17 minutes.
That's a pretty good feat.
I think you and your friend are looking at that situation in the wrong way. If anything...you would think something like that should make pvp fun for a tank type.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Where you go wrong is where you are setting all empathy aside.
The point I made was how things looks to a player giving pvp a try and then is singled out as the sole target by multiple people multiple times, while other players are ignored.
Quoting the OP:
I am telling you this doesn't come off as friendly, nor is very inviting to become a more active pvper.
This isn't a evaluation off the pvp community as a whole, more a sharing of a (bad) experience that pvp vets might want to take note off.. or not, that is up to everyone individually.
Then what the hell is she complaining about?
Are you not aware that "attack the tank, ignore the squishies" is actually the polite thing for pvpers to do?
Your friend sounds like some spoiled brat who whines because the "big bad pvpers" won't leave them alone to pve the zombies. So do you.
Hell, if they survived "17 or so minutes" then the "vicious malicious big bad pvpers" weren't even in the game with you, cause they would have nuked your noob friend in under ten seconds.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Do you really think it is a wonder pvp is dead with an attitude like that?
The more replies I get in this thread, the more I am starting to agree with a certain dev.
/edit
Considering it a few minutes, that is more an individual thing, not aimed at the other people who replied.
I don't think it's fair to say I'm setting all empathy aside.
What I'm doing...is looking at the bright side of that situation...and trying to point it out to you and your friend...because it's a huge bright side.
Honestly, being the sole target of all the player zombies...and lasting 17 minutes...being only your first or second time in pvp...is damn good...and is something the person should feel good about.
Another thing...the fact that the person lasted 17 minutes...is probably the main reason everyone attacked them. Not because they were new to pvp...but because they were incredibly durable. People like to test their builds...and it turned out that your friend was the best test for people there.
When someone is in Bash, getting constantly ganked because of how new and "squishy" they are...or being spawn killed...then there is a problem.
However, if you're taking the best of what other players can give, and lasting 17 minutes...then that is just awesome.
I get that your friend didn't want, or expect, to be targetted by everyone like that...but the fact is...they kind of have something to brag about now...being so new and able to last so long.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I do agree that is also a side of things.
Thank you for the well thought out reply.
And my apologies of being a little harsh with the claim about empathy.
I am just missing the I understand what you are saying, but in all responses I am getting.
I know just what that was a reference to and now I'm a little angry but I'm not gonna go turning my own thread into no flame war...
Literally though do you realise you are blaming whoever was in there at the time just for trying to kill the survivors WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT IN THE GAME MODE where you managed to survive for 17 minutes still. How can you even complain about this, it's just beyond me. Clearly PvP isn't for your friend or at least zombie apocalypse if they bring along a tank as and expect to not be hit ever when the entire point is to turn them into a zombie.
Just please, leave this thread your point is incredibly invalid and the way you are blaming the community (and others) for it is ridiculous.
Also just a FYI I put friendly in speech marks for a reason. It is in reference to trash talk / ganking / exploiting / flame wars whenever specific people die once / general harassment. I was not however referring to what you are saying being friendly is which is apparently not attacking specific people on the enemy team in PvP. I understand the fact your friend may of felt they were being ganked however the fact they lasted for 17 minutes taking pressure off the rest of the team and almost winning the match makes it not seem like this was at all a bad thing to happen.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Getting angry when you keep replying to what I am not saying is a little odd. What are you actually getting mad at? I have been posting one negative experience, and apparently that is too much for some people to handle. By the same people who are ironically then blame me for being thin skinned. I wasnt planning on going on about it at all, but at every turn it seems like I am being told that my experience is invalid or I am wrong, and that is not something Ill just let slide.
Ill give you some advise, though I am pretty sure it will fall on deaf ears now. When someone says someone negative about pvp, particularly something you were not present at, dont try to deny it. If you feel it is not representative about how pvp usually goes just say that explicitly. Or of you feel it is normal behavior, you can also just say that. A that is how pvp in CO is, so maybe it is not for you is a lot different from trying to prove my experience invalid. Arguing someone experiences are invalid will never get you anywhere.
In regards to Foxi, she made a direct personal attack at me, so I am very much entitled to the reply I gave her, her attitude is beyond bad. I also edited it once I realized it was to general in its meaning.
I have even stated explicitly multiple times this is not a targeted to any community as a whole, but was an experience to how things can go. And yes things like that do reflect on pvpers.
Surviving for 17 minutes is all I needed to hear. It generally meant that nothing at all went wrong, it's not like you've told me any trash talking has occurred or anything on top of the fact your friend was attacked by the zombies more than the rest of the survivors. There is nothing wrong there what-so-ever.
that is how pvp in CO is, so maybe it is not for you Is what I said a few times and it is the reason I stated as why your point on the reason PvP isn't populated is invalid.
What I don't like is your attitude, why you think I am angry at the fact your friend didn't enjoy their hero games experience I have no idea. What got me annoyed was where you did the reference to the "certain dev." Unless I am mistaking what this was a reference to I believe I am rightful in my place to take offence to that.
Anyway enough of this, arguing about such a stupid thing is really not going to get us anywhere.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Wait...someone lasted for 17 minutes in ZA, and then complained for what...?Not letting him stay alive for 20 minutes and win?
So, you are accusing the COPvP community for playing the game the way it is meant to be played?
The dev thing is funny, 'coz that dev was as bad a pvp example as one can get...dat ragequit..
Haha indeed. JKN aside yeah I agree the mass ganking of people knew to PvP is sorta outta control. BUT its done by only a couple of PvPers most of them frown against mass ganking.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
"Bad experiences" can happen to someone new to any game or anything in general.
You are blaming PvPers. The fact is that Cryptic ruined PvP on purpose and made it even more unwelcoming and hostile to anyone trying it out for the first time. Personally.. I don't give a **** if COPvP gets more popular or remains as dead as it is. It's all Cryptic's fault.
You are an ***hole for blaming people who, in the end, are sitting behind a screen the same as you.
I'll make it a personal mission to farm the **** out of you if you ever step foot in a Hero Game again. Same goes for your friend. In fact, I'ma farm every new player I see just to be sure. And hey, this is all your fault for bringing this attitude with pages of blaming to the forums.
When a newb starts crying, I'll be sure to let them know to blame aiqa.
XS
Oh you!
Here's the thing though, this couldn't really be considered mass ganking.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
OH MY GOOOOOODDD!
20K HP TANK GANKK!!!
OH MY IS THAT A 4K DAMAGE MIND BREAK???????
Joke aside yeah, Ubtri's right..kinda
The community doesn't always have to be nice and we certainly do not have to apologize for anything. Some people want us to be the villain. I'm happy to oblige.
The irony being that you're talking to someone who goes out of their way to let new pvpers kill them so that they have as much fun as everyone else.
Your crusade has the aim of a drunk person with one eye who just got done spinning around for ten minutes straight.
Since you seem to be confused about why people took offense to your post... it's somewhere around this part of it:
You remember right? The part where you tried to demonize pvpers for daring to use a common pvp tactic on your friend in pursuit of the stated goal of the game your friend willingly joined? (Except, the more commonly accepted tactic is to swarm the squishy dps first... not the tank).
Pointing out that it's "only some" doesn't change anything... especially at the point where it became clear that your criteria for those "some" is in no way based on actual examples of abusive behavior. Oh no, people attacked a tank (the person who is supposed to want people to attack them...do you know how many times in mmo history tanks have complained of their inability to get pvpers to focus on them?), the horror.
Nepht, we're talking about the zombies in ZA. Mass ganking in ZA is called "playing correctly". Who goes into a zombie-themed thing then complains that they're being swarmed by zombies? u_u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.