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FC.31.20130824.12 PTS Update

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    bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    yeah. which is why the justice gear had better not be in lockboxes.

    Or what?

    I mean seriously, there is almost a 100% (probably 98%) chance these end up in Drop boxes. Unless they came out with a new chain/story that introduces it for completing it, which i highly doubt there is, and since the anniversary is over, there is no need for that lockbox anymore.

    So it is time for a new Lockbox, I bet it'll be the "Justice lockbox of Amazing New Gear!".

    What other option would you see fit to bring it in? I guess we could start a new recognition set?

    Or questinite -which i would hate- or drifter?
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
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    tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    Or questinite -which i would hate- or drifter?

    Puting it in the questionite store would be a bit annoying, but it would make questionite worth more and lower the price on the exchange. Right now there really isn't enough in the Q-store to keep the exchange rate from going up and up and up and...

    Edit: How hard would it be for them to add a <meta charset="utf-8" /> tag to this forum?
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    radioscienceradioscience Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    They should probably remove the mod boost to justice gear, buff mods in general, and then (maybe) boost the base stats on the justice gear depending on how good the set bonus is.

    The mod boost is actually a bug that should be fixed in the next PTS build.
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    bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The mod boost is actually a bug that should be fixed in the next PTS build.

    How about the bug that lets you have Viking beards with Half helmets, but not the ordinary goatee?

    I WILL NEVER GIVE IN! :)

    .
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
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    bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    exactly this.

    That is the option you actually like? Awesome, so that means we need to get a level cap increase, so we can have a new recognition vender. and new areas/ enemies to fight and new stories...Maybe by 2016 we will get this.

    just wow.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
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    carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 723 Community Moderator
    edited October 2013
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Also, I sincerely doubt justice gear's extra stats are working as intended.
    The mod boost is actually a bug that should be fixed in the next PTS build.

    Good call, kaizerin. I appreciate the clarification, radioscience.
    (ignore my last post about Justice gear)
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    bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    meh, I like the SC recog gear more than Legion, so i would rather see it not get screwed over and just put the Justice stuff in Locboxes.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
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    joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    but the justice stuff is clearly better than the heroic stuff. this is why I like theravenforce's idea that implements justice gear as something you can upgrade from heroic or legion stuff. :cool:

    this avoids lockboxes, which many people hate, and allows us to earn justice gear in game, while preserving the importance of heroic gear.

    Something they could do, to appease those who, you know, payed out real money (and not cheap)...is use the Spirit of Justice idea as a limited time deal with Legion Gear.

    Spirit of Justice could be a bound item. Enough to upgrade a characters gear, given to the player. The gear must also be bound to upgrade. Then replace Legion Gear with Justice Gear in the next lockbox.

    People will still chase after the keys. They get a limited time to get the Spirit of Justice item (1-2 weeks).
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    eatmoreseatmores Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    alternately we could use Ravenforce's spirit of justice idea to upgrade heroic or legion gear to justice gear based on items we could collect from drops in game.

    That's probably more complicated than it needs to be. You may as well have bosses just drop "Justice Bucks" that you save up to purchase Justice gear. Unfortunately though most of the best stuff seems to come from chance boxes.

    Maybe a combination of the two. Chance boxes for the impatient/rich or long hours of grinding bucks for the rest.
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    forrksakesexcoforrksakesexco Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    LR tank has now gone from 55% dodge on live to 60% on PTS fbm. Running through Resistance atm gonna try and do the Endbringers without a Mega D suit.
    Sword Cyclone - intermittent bug - the animation does not always show up - has happend twice once in combat and once killing chairs at Harmons speech
    I thought it was rather amusing to be stood doing nothing and people just die around me
    _____________
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    About the @handle - it's a long story.
    Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
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    joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    no. no. no. stop the lockbox gear. its plain WRONG to keep putting the best stuff in lockboxes. WRONG. I cannot agree with any idea that includes justice gear or any future gear in lockboxes.

    its a blatant money grab. I understand they are a business but seriously now, alienating players by P2W isn't a good business model.

    That idea was just one based on the thought that PWE doesn't care what you or I think, but rather, yes, this will be new Lockbox Gear.
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    tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'd much rather it were Q-gear though. There aren't any good questionite primaries, and it's not as if there wouldn't be people using their stipend or buying zen to convert into questionite if the top tier gear were in the Q-store.
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    theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,081 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    A sad truth is:

    More Lockboxes = More Money

    More Money = More Development by paid Developers

    I am sceptical that they will make it available without Zen...

    Perhaps sell [Spirit of Justice] in Z Store which provides an [Essence of Justice] applicable to all three pieces of Legion Gear (or maybe one at a time) which when fused with Legion Gear becomes the Justice Gear Equivalent? Instead of Lockboxes?

    Just a thought.
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    joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    I'd much rather it were Q-gear though. There aren't any good questionite primaries, and it's not as if there wouldn't be people using their stipend or buying zen to convert into questionite if the top tier gear were in the Q-store.

    My thoughts on it as well. And I'd think it'd just sell better.

    "New alt! Now I need to buy questionite!"

    vs

    "New alt! Heroic is good enough! Maybe I'll get lucky with the key I buy when I can convert enough zen for a chance!"

    But this is me thinking they won't make it an earn in game gear. I have no faith in PWE not to grab for money.
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    crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,600 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Lets just see what they do with Justice Gear before we can discuss how the players should be compensated.

    As for the argument that newer gear needs to come out regularly as this is an MMO, content should come out regularly that challenges players enough that they would need new gear and if there's a level cap to follow suit to justify having to replace your already end game gear.

    There shouldn't be new end game gear with an end game to speak of.
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    carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 723 Community Moderator
    edited October 2013
    ayonachan wrote: »
    Critical Strike

    Live Critical Strike:
    "Base" critical chance is 0 BUT because you MUST have 10 dex it turns into 0.13%
    47 Critical Strike grants 3.9%
    95 Critical Strike grants 11.2%
    103 Critical Strike grants 12.7%
    198 Critical Strike grants 27%
    245 Critical Strike grants 32.2%

    PTS Critical Strike1:
    "Base" critical chance is 0 BUT because you MUST have 10 dex it turns into 3.8%
    47 Critical Strike grants 13.4%
    95 Critical Strike grants 19%
    103 Critical Strike grants 19.9%
    198 Critical Strike grants 26.4%
    302 Critical Strike grants 30.8%

    Dexterity

    Live|Dexterity|PTS1
    0.13% 5 2.2%
    4.6% 63 14.1%
    13.8% 120 20.5%
    24.8% 191 25.5%
    31.6% 249 28.4%
    38% 329 31.4%
    43.8% 461 34.9%


    Dexterity+Critical Strike Scaling
    Live|Dexterity+CritStrike|PTS1
    34% 72+204 29.5%
    38.5% 134+204 31.7%
    43.5% 249+204 34.7%
    46.2% 461+103 36.8%
    47.7% 461+204 38.2%

    Thanks for researching this, ayonachan.

    It looks like critical chance's curve is now more front-loaded compared to Live. Undergeared characters can achieve a higher crit rate, but will hit a lower plateau once they stack excessive bonuses.

    I like that. Thumbs up.
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    oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Regarding Justice Gear, as mentioned in this thread about how to save PvP; "with the introduction of Justice gear, add a loot table to to the defeat of other players in Hero Games that has a chance to drop a new lockbox for it. Something like this would really help boost the PvP playerbase, much like it was a year ago before On Alert hit and killed the HG Vendor rewards."
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    quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    <<Edit: Snarky unnecessary comment self-removed.>>
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
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    joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So, it would seem the idea is to just move Crit Rate from the 40-50% area, to the 25-35% area.
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    warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I have one character with Legion gear with some R6 and one R7 mod.

    I have a handful of characters with Heroic gear.

    MOST of my 40s have basic blue Primaries on Offense and Defense and the green Utility.

    And I do just fine in all content. Sure, I don't SOLO Andrith (or others) on Elite, but I don't need to. I can solo the stuff that scales on ELITE, though.


    That said,
    I hope the Justice gear will be found in some way other than lockboxes, as I do like to farm for my rewards.
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Right lets look at a few things:

    Ego Placate is a CROWD CONTROL POWER at it's core level.

    Ego Placate is a "Placate" which works on the following: Henchmen, Villains, Enforcers and Master Villains.

    Yes, it is a CROWD CONTROL POWER. So is adding an Advantage that allows this power to control if a crowd is able to attack you(via Threat Wipe) really that much of a stretch?

    You can't tell me "Slight of Mind" doesn't just SCREAM Telepath. Your forcing enemies around you to forget about you being there, becoming completely invisible to them. This might be the most thematic power/advantage for a powerset in the game(but it's currently located in the wrong powerset!!!)

    Also, Wiki doesn't say anything about Placate effecting Master Villains. But I can't say either way. *shrug*

    Ego Placate has an advantage "SVENGALI'S GUILE" which removes 10% of target's defenses, so your attacks (and everyone else's) deals a real 10% more damage.

    Svengali's Guile works on EVERYTHING, including players and Cosmics, so when you apply Ego Placate with Svengali's Guile to a target what happens?

    Gravitar + Ego Placate (+SG advantage) = 10% damage reduction (from CC effects not working on Anything over Super Villain) 10% defense penetration (from Svengali's Guile)

    Adding a % chance to place in stealth is a flat out bad idea for this power. Why? Because it works fine as it is.

    Crowd Control in CO is VERY limited in terms of what it can affect. Ego Placate is an example of this.

    LoL, I'm not trying to take anything away from what exists in the power already Raven. I'm trying to actually make it worth a damn. It will still VERY MUCH be a Crowd Control heavy power.

    Let's take a look at Evasive Maneuvers on live right now. Not only does it have the "Slight of Mind" Advantage, but it also allow's you to stack "40% Dodge" with 4 Adv pts total(2 adv pts gets you SoM and 34% Dodge.) Take SoM from EM and add it to Ego Placate and you get: 4 advantage pts gets you SoM and -10% Damage Resistance Debuff. Which sounds better to you?

    Not to mention, this is the EXACT power that the Night Warrior has been missing all this time. If you ever played CoX, you might recall that the Stalkers(there version of the NW) ALL came with a Placate ability. This allowed them to keep tougher enemies or groups of enemies off of them so that they could regain "HIDE(Stealth)" for another "Assassin Strike(Shadow Strike.)" This change would work incredibly well for the Night Warrior. Allowing them to to use Placate to gain Stealth for 3secs(for a better chance at regaining (NW Steatlh), and also debuff the targets resistance allowing for a slightly stronger Shadow Strike.

    I STRONGLY feel adding "Slight of Mind' to Ego Placate is a must. Changing Slight of Mind from a 2pt adv to a 3pt adv would be something to consider though. But honestly I think 2pts would be acceptable.

    It has plenty of use in PvP/E if you use it correctly.

    For example: Go and run PSS INT with Detect Vulnerability and Concentration or Manipulator form and grab something fairly damaging which deals crushing damage and then go and grab Demolish + Advantage Below The Belt. Apply Ego Placate + SG Advantage + Demolish + 8 stacks of your chosen form and hit target with a crushing damage (purely crushing damage because of Demolish, you can exclude demolish and still get good results) and see if Ego Placate's affect is not "effective".

    Ok, I'll concede that the -10% Damage Resistance Debuff(WHICH COSTS 2 Advantage pts to even get) is effective(WHEN used with other -Damage Resistance Debuffs.) By itself, all this debuff would do is negate the 10% Damage Reduction that you suffer from BCR(if your using both of these powers that is.) People that use BCR are able to triple stack it for a total of -30% damage to themselves and it's hardly noticeable.(If the -Damage thing doesn't stack I wasn't aware, but I was under the impression that it does.)

    In it's current form it is a spammable debuff which allows you to consistently increase the DPS of your team on a target (like a boss) without slowing your DPS too much, the advantage can always be re-applied instantly.

    Such a proposed change would only serve to make this power useless.

    Actually it would be able to be used EXACTLY as it is now. It would retain anything you see it being useful for in every way. You didn't take cooldown reduction into consideration obviously. With enough Cooldown Reduction(which is easy to get) you can still keep the Placate Effects AND SGuile up permanently(It just becomes something that you have to either Stat INT up for or get Speed Gear.) This will actually make it so easy I'm starting to think a 15sec Base Recharge on the power would be TO LOW! It should probably be 20secs! This would STILL let you keep all the powers effects up permanently, but wouldn't allow you to spam the Stealth from Slight of Mind as often(At most a you could probably drop that 20secs down to 7-8secs, with a 3 second Stealth. Seems much better than being able to spam Stealth every 5 secs.)


    EGO PLACATE(Suggested Format)

    Tier 1

    You are able to subtly convince the target that you are not a threat(Equals NEW Threat Wipe addition), never mind that you just beat up a nearby group of their friends.

    Click

    -Placate the target, making them unable to attack you. This effect only works on weaker targets. This includes Henchmen, Villains, and Enforcers.
    -Reduces the damage the target deals.(THIS I have missed until just now. This I would suggest removing altogether. Why would placating someone reduce the damage they are capable of dealing? It wouldn't! It WOULD however leave them Vulnerable to attacks, which is why SGuile works thematically.)

    3 Ranks
    2 Advantages

    -Cost: 15
    -Activation Time: .67 sec
    -Duration: Rank 1: 10 sec
    Rank 2: 12 sec
    Rank 3: 14 sec
    -Range: 50 feet
    -Lockdown: No
    -Recharge: 15-20sec(NEW)
    -Threat Wipe to Target(NEW)

    ADVANTAGE: Svengali's Guile (2 Advantage Points)
    Placated enemies have their defenses reduced for 10 seconds
    -10% defense resistance

    ADVANTAGE: Sleight of Mind (2 OR 3 Advantage Points)
    Evasive Maneuvers has a 50% chance to wipe all threat from you and places you in stealth for 3 seconds.
    -1,000 Aggression and Perception Stealth for 3 sec
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Sword Cyclone - intermittent bug - the animation does not always show up - has happend twice once in combat and once killing chairs at Harmons speech
    I thought it was rather amusing to be stood doing nothing and people just die around me

    "Telekinetic Assault" has also been doing this for a very long time now. FX will just not play at random.
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    no. no. no. stop the lockbox gear. its plain WRONG to keep putting the best stuff in lockboxes. WRONG. I cannot agree with any idea that includes justice gear or any future gear in lockboxes.

    its a blatant money grab. I understand they are a business but seriously now, alienating players by P2W isn't a good business model.

    Let me ask you this...

    Do you WANT to be able to keep playing Champions Online?

    If your answer is yes, then you need to realize that this game HAS to make money. The Lockboxes are finally at a point where I see them as perfectly acceptable(Minus the fact that thing are FOREVER locked into them, things like the Costume Pieces and Becomes should eventually be made available for direct buy after the Lockbox has lived past it's effective cycle.)

    Lockboxes offer you THE BEST Gear/ TONS of Mods for that gear/ Costumes/ Becomes/ Vehicles/ Drifter Salvage to buy even more goodies with/ XP bonuses/ Resource Bonuses/ And even Crafting Skill upgrades. THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF!! AND your not even REQUIRED to spend YOUR MONEY on them. You can farm Questionite(which I've heard of people being to farm ridiculous amount of fairly quickly) to use to get Zen for Keys to open the boxes with. While having Gear in Lockboxes is sort of P2W, it's not COMPLETELY P2W.
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Perhaps sell [Spirit of Justice] in Z Store which provides an [Essence of Justice] applicable to all three pieces of Legion Gear (or maybe one at a time) which when fused with Legion Gear becomes the Justice Gear Equivalent?

    This is something that they should do for us without having to purchase something.

    Legion Gear should be removed from the game, replaced with Justice Gear. The Legion Gear you have will automatically be replaced with the equivalent piece of Justice Gear, which will be stored into your Overflow Bag. Don't forget about Legion gear stored in Bank/ Hideout Bank/ and Auction House.

    Some will of course be wanting to change out certain pieces of gear depending on their builds. So some might still end up with a need for some new pieces. Hopefully the Auction House will fill up with new Justice Gear pieces people no longer need, to aid in the re-gearing process.
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    aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    So can we expect the other almost useless gear options to get a buff too?
    On utility gear cooldown reduction is the single most useful option, cost reduction isnt needed on most builds, and for builds that do need it, it does not work all that good.

    And the energy bonus items are even worse, making the energy bonus about a tenth of what a health bonus items gives would be much more reasonable.
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Just wanted to get this out one last time, as the last thread closed down not to long after I had posted it.


    NEW CLICK HEAL

    This Heal applies a Heal Over Time effect on you(just like BCR.) A click heal that is capable of stacking, with a reasonable recharge time would be good. The heal scales with your Offense or Defense Stat(much like Resurgence scales with CON), whichever is higher(Or Scales with CON if OFF/DEF scaling won't work for any reason.) Has very minimal FX(or None at all) so that it is able to work for a LARGE amount of Thematic Builds. This would be the Default Self Heal for your average Off/Def builds, while BCR is the Default Dodge Self Heal, and Crits have Conviction. All other Heals in the game are highly thematic to there respective sets. OFF/DEF builds need something to heal with when those thematic heals don't fit.

    *Notes: Endorphin Rush would probably need to be removed from Enrage, because this New Heal would basically replace it while allowing it to be used with multiple build types. Not just strictly locked behind Enrge/Defiance. But having the new Heal scale with Off/DEF or CON would make it just as useful for it's original purpose.
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    problem. Legion gear in lockboxes I can live with, but the justice gear is SO much better than heroic gear, unless its brought down to legion gear stats I cannot stand by and let that go into lockboxes without putting up a hue and cry.

    Well...
    The mod boost is actually a bug that should be fixed in the next PTS build.

    This should help.
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    cptcooltasticcptcooltastic Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    I don't think it helps enough. with offense becoming SO much more important, the offense boost needs to go too.

    OR add Off to Heroic Gear as well?
    gradii wrote: »
    its simply WRONG to put gear of any kind in lockboxes. you want to make people wanna open lockboxes? put rank 9 mods in there instead of legion/justice gear.

    most people never bother to fuse 9s, and would gladly open boxes to get them easier.

    LoL, most people never bother to fuse Rank 9s because the increase past Rank 7s is pathetic at best. How would putting Rank 9s in Lockboxes make people more likely to buy Keys than putting End Game Gear in them?

    Answer: It wouldn't.
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    secksegaisecksegai Posts: 1,354 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    gradii wrote: »
    no. no. no. stop the lockbox gear. its plain WRONG to keep putting the best stuff in lockboxes. WRONG. I cannot agree with any idea that includes justice gear or any future gear in lockboxes.

    its a blatant money grab. I understand they are a business but seriously now, alienating players by P2W isn't a good business model.

    I like many fellow players hate the idea of having to gamble for "the best gear". However, I also realize that something was necessary to increase revenue for the game's survival.

    I don't see lockboxes alone alienating a playerbase. If anything, its the ignoring of community feedback that does most of that.


    However, here's the big problem. In order to make higher end gear more appealing, the customer needs a reason to want it, so that said gear serves a purpose.

    All but the most casual pvp players want the best gear possible - but the pvp community is treated as a minority with little to no voice, as is proven by the lack of rewards and persistent bugs of hero games.

    So, if pve is the focus, players need a reason to upgrade. However, when the content remains the same, there is little motivation to change equipment again. On a personal level, aside from the fact that I recently invested in legion after coming back, my biggest issue is there's nothing to do that I haven't done repeatedly before. Furthermore, there are very few in game drops that are currently deemed rewarding.

    So I have to ask myself, why would I want new gear? The short answer is I don't.

    From a pve perspective, new gear allows me to function more efficiently in acquiring other new gear or items. But if there's nothing done to ensure interest, players will ultimately become bored of repeating the same content over and over. For example, once the invasion ended, I found myself at a loss for what to do, and based on Zone comments I clearly wasn't the only one.
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    chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Let me ask you this...

    Do you WANT to be able to keep playing Champions Online?

    If your answer is yes, then you need to realize that this game HAS to make money. The Lockboxes are finally at a point where I see them as perfectly acceptable(Minus the fact that thing are FOREVER locked into them, things like the Costume Pieces and Becomes should eventually be made available for direct buy after the Lockbox has lived past it's effective cycle.)

    Lockboxes offer you THE BEST Gear/ TONS of Mods for that gear/ Costumes/ Becomes/ Vehicles/ Drifter Salvage to buy even more goodies with/ XP bonuses/ Resource Bonuses/ And even Crafting Skill upgrades. THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF!! AND your not even REQUIRED to spend YOUR MONEY on them. You can farm Questionite(which I've heard of people being to farm ridiculous amount of fairly quickly) to use to get Zen for Keys to open the boxes with. While having Gear in Lockboxes is sort of P2W, it's not COMPLETELY P2W.

    and who do you think pays for the zen?
    another player, either directly or through the stipend from subs.

    so as long as someone else BUYS the zen, you can get it for Questionite.

    It kind of falls in a heap if everyone decides, why should I pay for it. I can get it free in game.
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