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FC.31.20130824.12 PTS Update
lordgar
Posts: 267 Arc User
This build is scheduled to hit PTS at 6pm PST, 10/2/2013
Greetings!
This patch continues our bug-fix drive. It also contains updates to the preview dodge changes that you saw in FC.31.20130824.10.
Release Notes:
Preview (these will not be part of the next live build):
Costumes:
Other:
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Greetings!
This patch continues our bug-fix drive. It also contains updates to the preview dodge changes that you saw in FC.31.20130824.10.
Release Notes:
Preview (these will not be part of the next live build):
- Field Surge: This power is no longer damaged when you try to break free from holds.
- Personal Force Field: This power is no longer damaged when you try to break free from holds.
- Lightning Reflexes: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 30/40/50% more chance to dodge.
- Night Warrior: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 10/15/20% more chance to dodge.
- Way of the Warrior: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 15/20/25% more chance to dodge.
- *NEW POWER* Fluidity: This power is a block replacer. While active it increases your Dodge Chance and grants Avoidance Rating.
- *NEW ADVANTAGE* Flow like the River: If Fluidity is maintained for at least 2 seconds, its bonuses will decay over 10 seconds once you stop maintaining it. 3 Points.
- Quarry: This power now grants 10% base dodge and +5% base Avoidance per stack (down from 15% and 7.5% respectively). Additionally, the maximum bonus per stack of this power has been reduced to 20 per stack (down from 30).
- Targeting Computer: The Crit Chance and Severity bonus of this power now ranks up when the power does. 5/7.5/10% Crit Chance and 10/12.5/15% Critical Severity while locked on.
Costumes:
- Female characters now have access to a second Beast Leg variant. This variant was previously restricted to NPCs.
Other:
- Unity HQ: Fixed a hole in the ceiling of the teleporter room.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Post edited by lordgar on
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Though I wonder if LR's dodge chance is a bit too low, but, testing will decide that.
Without gear, the minimum dodge chance of R3 LR will be sitting at 60%. I haven't used LR in forever, but that seems pretty darn good to me, considering what other stuff can be put over that.
Wait... PFF doesn't get hurt by holds anymore? PUSH THIS BABY TO LIVE!
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Looks like EM will still be able to buff us to or near 100% dodge.
Exactly.
And this is for all of you that thought that Cryptic was going to leave Dodge as it was on the recent change:
!@$&^&& @#%$!@#!^ !@%&#!@$ !@!@# &^%*%^&@#$ $^ !@$! !@#!@# ^&%$@# !@#@! $%#@$%@.
There.
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Except when people once again post that their Electric form, 50% dodge/Avoidance builds won't be 'viable' anymore.
It'll be able to do it easier now, since LR doesn't soft cap Dodge Rating anymore.
Oh, wait. You meant Evasive Maneuvers, I was thinking Elusive Monk. Which should actually work with LR now that LR doesn't provide Dodge Rating.
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I was not aware there was a 2nd type of beast leg in this game.
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Gear bonuses were completely wiped out on the legion gear though (they have no affect from what I could see on PTS)
I see you're adjusting the dodge chances for defenses based on dodge, or rather putting them into a uniform calculation instead of "cryptic math". I can appreciate that.
What about the gear and mods though?
And, speaking of mods, when are R8 and R9 mods going to be fixed? R9s still only give 4 more stat boost than R7s on live. PTS seems to have a much more realistic boost for R9s. Is that coming over to live?
Thanks.
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That one really needs to be lowered, and besides that, having a power that can be spammed for being invisible for half the time, is a little over the top.
If the numbers on EM stay the same, at least make the cooldown start after the buff ends.
And since it doesnt appear to be fixed in this build yet.
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I'm a little baffled by this one. Why do we need this exactly? We have Parry + Adv which does the exact same thing this New block is going to do(AND Parry only works with Melee which seems more balanced then this new block.)
Also, ranged builds can apply multiple stacks of Evasive Maneuvers for a significant increase in Dodge. This New Block Replacer sounds like a bit overkill to me. It will basically negate the nerf your doing to dodge and allow people to continue stacking high amounts.
Haven't tested this yet of course, this is just a first impression opinion.
Grants bonus dodge chance (30/40/50%) and Avoidance (+300/400/500) per rank. These bonuses seem to be raw and add to dodge and avoidance directly.
Flow like the River is essentially a shield benefit that works like Telepathic's and Force's 1 point adv but with a much longer wait for it to be active and it costs more. Where's the balance of having to pay 3 points AND wait 2 seconds for it to have its lingering effect that becomes less effective per second? I'd rather take Parry because that at least works automatically and even when my block is disabled.
Quarry still grants its original points per stack and hasn't been lowered to 20 maximum per stack.
The lingering effect seems like it should be a smaller bonus than Elusive Monk, and since it seems to give +Dodge/Avoid in lieu of increased block resistance, that makes it a bit novel. I can see this being balancable, and more variety is always nice.
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:biggrin:
These are a lot more promising, so far.
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Called it :cool:
Wait a sec.....is that Querry R1? I hope the dodge/avoidance still scales with rank. Oh and going from 30 to 20 is way too much of a nerf. That's a 30 stat point loss for both INT and EGO. Let's not overnerf things ok.
They also went to flat dodge percent on WotW and Night Warrior, which might actually boost their dodge effectiveness even after the rating curve nerf. And will certainly help all the dodge passives at low level.
Unstoppable might be in need of a buff to it's damage absorb soon. >_>
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I really hope you aren't killing dodge gear as much as it seemed. Quarry/WotW/NW all still have a fair chance of survival now at least, but I have some characters that use different passives (Electric Form, Fiery Form, etc). These aren't builds I can just change to add some block power in to make more survivable, much less waste 3 adv points on it, and I really don't want to rely on a healer through everything.
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While I won't say it's perfect at the moment, I do see this likely being useful for non-melee characters.
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Just some quick estimates:
having one heroic agility item with a dodge mod will get me to 14.3% chance and 55% avoidance.
Since the damage reduction on dodge does not interact with other damage resistance we can just say the overall average damage reduction is 0.55*0.143=7.8%
This compared to the default dodge chance 0.1*0.2=2%
So we get 5.8% less damage by having that gear.
Now if we go for defense gear, you get 24% damage resistance from 100 defense, of course that one is affected by DR but still, the first 100% has an average of 1% damage reduction for every 2% damage resistance.
So not using a defense passive, and nmot having more then 100% damage resistance, we can say you need 100*5.8/24=25 defense to get the same damage resistance.
I have one rank6 impact mod in my inventory, that gives 18, to be fair I would also switch to a defensive primary with a higher defense stat, giving another 20 extra defense.
And on top of that there are a LOT of specs that make those defense points even higher, and then of course the 'best defense'/'agressive stance' specs. That make things even worse, plus, with the offense changes, now adding a significant bonus to damage too.
And this is not even counting that one is chance based and the other always works.
So that dodge chance from dodge rating really needs to be much higher then what it is now on PTS.
I think it would be better to go for 2 points instead of 3 considering the bonus diminishes over time. Decreasing the time from 2s to 1s could make it OP though.
Neat!!
But one of the reasons no one loves TC is it takes to **** long to lock on.
Since you really need to make fights short on an offensive passive, you generally don't use the lock on feature unless it's a boss.
So it's kind of wasted except for teaming on big bosses or well... okay if you want to live you need to burn the boss down fast, Lock on Does help there.
I get the lock on idea, but you lock on ~before~ you attack
We need some way to lock on before we go in...
Something that's not a big pain to use.
I'll ponder that for a bit.
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For all you know this was in mind of our feedback;
Sorry there's every chance both crowds were right and the Devs listened
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Lock should start on target, not attack. It'd work with tab-targeting, and I think it could work with the FPS-style controls too (just aim at whatever you want to target).
Seems to thematically make sense, as it's literally called "Targeting Computer".
I've never understood why it didn't work like that.
As for the offensive passives complaint...I'm having a very hard time ignoring that people used Offensive Passives since launch without the benefit of spec trees, free superstat allocation or baked-in offense/defense on gear.
Maybe go with the "boost base defense on gear" idea I threw out in the other thread.
Also, giving all three superstats earlier in progression would help with difficulties in leveling for those new to the game.
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It's not a complain about Off Pass per se, it's just an observation of how you use them; i.e. wipe out henchmen and burn down tougher stuff before it kills you.
That's not complaining, that's tactics.
Anyway..
Yea it'd be nice if there was some way to get lock on to work before you attacked.
Maybe like Night warrior?
Lock on: Targeting Computer grants a bonus to Critical Severity and Critical Chance [insert scale here], once in combat the Lock On fades over 3 seconds.
Lock On stacks once per rank of TC and refresh out of combat 1 per 5 seconds, up to 3 at rank 3
Here we are now going to the West Side
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Regardless of that though, going by what seems to be the current design philosophy it should be granting flat dodge chance like every other power that affects dodge. As it is currently it seems wrong. It's like if one (and only one) of all the various powers that buff damage resistance just randomly gave defense instead.
As it is currently, the intention seems to be that powers buff dodge chance and damage resistance directly while gear grants a minor buff to the same via dodge rating and defense. Parry w/ Elusive Monk is currently an exception to that intention, and it shouldn't be.
So I suggest this: Change Elusive Monk to grant dodge chance instead of rating. Simple, no? Make it less than the buff Fluidity gives, with or without advantage. Because with Fluidity you have to activate the block for two seconds thus reducing your damage output, so you should get a better defensive return from it.
Alternate suggestion: Scrap the current advantage on Fluidity and move Elusive Monk to there, as a flat bonus of course but otherwise functioning as it does now. Or keep the current one as well and just have a choice of advantages because more choice is always better at least from the players' perspective. Then make Parry's advantage give damage resistance instead, effectively a copy of the Laser Knight advantage on Energy Shield. It's a bit more complicated but this is honestly the solution I'd prefer. One block power that's wholely for dodge based builds, and one that's for other builds.
Agree 100% with this.
Diagree 100% with all of this.
Damage Mitigating buffs from blocks should ALWAYS be higher when they are Melee only. Melee is suppose to have better damage mitigation over Ranged because they end up enduring more damage. Ranged players take less damage because they can stay at a distance. So allowing Ranged players to have better mitigation doesn't make sense.
Adding Damage Resistance as Parry's Advantage doesn't make any sense thematically for the power. Not to mention having two blocks that offer the exact same Advantage would be absolutely pointless.
To the Devs, I see Fluidity becoming a power that will hardly ever be taken as it will be pretty much useless in PvP. Having to hold the block for 2 seconds before the advantage takes effect will make it EXTREMELY easy for players with Crippling Challenge to interrupt it. I know I often have to be quick to apply Force Sheath(and similar buffs) in a match before my block becomes disabled again. And the fact that the buffs percentage gradually lowers is just another reason why I don't think many would use it. Not when ALL other buffs are steady for the full duration.
Fluidity's Adv needs to be the Dodging equivalent to Telekinetic Shield's Resistance buff Adv.
EDIT: Although, maybe the idea is to not have this new block be able to be used in PvP. It sounds like it will be as PvE focused as Ebon Voids Adv. If so, then I guess it should have a higher Dodge/Avoidance than Elusive Monk. Yes I realize I just contradicted myself.
*shrug* I dunno anymore. This thing kind of came out of left field. I'm not sure what to think about it. LoL
I'll call something -- if you accept this then all new gear is going to be in Lockboxes, will get nerfed again, rinse and repeat. All player should be renamed cows for the milking we're all going to get.
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Start to the NEW Water Set!?!
*cough*
Oh it's definitely on PTS.
WHen I go on PTS my dodge drops from 59 to 18, Avoid drops from 70 to 50, crit drops from 60 to 45...
But when I put my R9 mods into the new underpowered justice gear.. I get back up to 51 crit.. but my dodge and avoid doesn't budge even with hundreds of points in dodge mods, dodge gear, etc.
Of course, that's also because the R9s on PTS seem to be fixed as they give 99 boost each vs. 66 on live.
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Yes, it's on PTS. And BEFORE this patch your dodge was 35.9%. This PATCH took away another 6%!!! Plus you lost some Avoidance and 30 INT/EGO. Sound good to you? Or make you salivate more for Justice Gear in lockboxes???
And yeah, 285 Dodge rating still nets you a whopping 7.9% dodge.
First. Why is it so hard to believe that the driving force behind these changes are the need to improve zen sales so people open more boxes for the upcoming gear?
Second. If not for the backlash after seeing the original changes, what makes you so sure that those numbers wouldn't be far off what hit live? Before on-alert hit, it was still in need of major adjustments but it was pushed to live to hit a deadline.
Third. I get that this game is supported almost exclusively off the zen sales buying keys. I don't even mind that the only way for the top tier gear to drop requires someone gambling on a lockbox. I do mind that the gear I spent so much time and effort on is suddenly taking a huge hit to effectiveness in order to make way for new gear.
Why buy new gear if its highly likely to lose a lot of its effectiveness when that's the entire reason you pay the premium for it in the first place?
Why bother continuously upgrading your characters if the content remains the same? I'm well over several thousand alerts. I have yet to see a new zone since 2011. I saw at least 2 in less than 2 years of CoH. MMOs are repetitive, but within reason.
Adjusting the passives to flat chance is great, but also a simple fix. I believe the majority of us are more concerned about how it affects our existing equipment. I've spent the majority of my time since I got back re-gearing my alts with legion. It was bad enough when I left the first time after having my prototype jets nerfed to a fraction of their original performance. If I came back just for all that time to be wasted, I won't be back again.
My departure will be next to meaningless. But just ask yourselves how many people have invested in legion gear, and how said people will react when their expensive gear they acquired deflates in value dramatically?
Lastly, if we need to see a change, I would rather we get rid of avoidance completely and simply dodge the attack completely like the name suggests. That way you could tone the dodge chance dramatically and eliminate a calculation completely, which should also help on the server load. After all, when you dodge a bullet, it's assumed that bullet (metaphorically or otherwise) missed completely.
On live I have 74% dodge. I know the first preview patch I was around 36%. After reading some of the first few posts on this thread, I thought the devs had come to their senses. Now I'm down to 30%. Guess those posters were celebrating dodge builds becoming even more craptacular.
You know, after seeing my Heavy Weapons character be nerfed last year with the On Alert changes, I adapted and explored other builds. The problem I have this time with change is that the investment was far greater this time around. I don't think I'm up to exploring and investing again.
Also, the DEX spec tree skills of Evasion and Quick Reflexes is even worse off now. I'm guessing the same is true of the CON spec tree skill for +Dodge based on DEX stat.
I really don't mind having to retcon over to LR from Quarry for the best Dodge/Avoidance. It's what I originally used untill I realized "Oh hey...not much of a difference in survival but big difference in damage" ...but I don't think it's fair to the players to screw over the gear/mods, not with how you (Cryptic and/or PWE or both!) decided the F2P format would be...buy gear!
Though with current gear/mods...Only lost about 2% Dodge Chance from using LR on Live and PTS.
Just to reiterate.
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I'm all for LR being the best at what it does (dodge and avoidance), but at the expense of buffing it, not this rubbish we're getting that nerfs some of the passives chance by over half.
For example with this new gear it is fairly possible to keep up to 2 EM stacks at once, this means it is possible to be at 100% dodge chance 24/7 before even using the new type of block.
Is it possible if you could look into changing some of the dodge that this ability gives? Just lowering it slightly will balance things up massively with these changes.
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And as you can see, the same issues still pop up. I sure see more negative feedback than positive. Concerns will exist till they're addressed. If they fail to be addressed inadequately, it will be you laughing at an empty server =P
Doublestacking EM isn't hard, but is only for a limited duration. You still have to wait for the cd and then the double stack only lasts as long as the first one does. You're basically just looking at a few seconds of doublestack unless you plan on pressing it right off cd, which will kill damage output and extend fights regardless......
Someone can correct me if this has been changed, but doesn't Dodge scale with activation time? So 100% dodge is actually only 50% against maintains (like henchmen use) and 50% is 100% against Shtick attacks and charges. I've never been able to find confirmation that it's been changed, and there are loading screen tips and other things that still say that's how it works. (Though those being out of date would not surprise.)