Doublestacking EM isn't hard, but is only for a limited duration. You still have to wait for the cd and then the double stack only lasts as long as the first one does. You're basically just looking at a few seconds of doublestack unless you plan on pressing it right off cd, which will kill damage output and extend fights regardless......
Agreed. Double stacking it, hell even just 1 stack of it, might raise your dodge chance, but it's digging into your damage output.
That said, I wouldn't be upset at 10/15/20% or 14/18/22% with this ability, and would feel it's still worth the use..
Crashing Wave Kick's advantage (Subtlety of the Tides) needs to be updated to flat Dodge % too if that's to be the way Powers apply Dodge, as does Strafe's advantage (Aversion).
Someone can correct me if this has been changed, but doesn't Dodge scale with activation time? So 100% dodge is actually only 50% against maintains (like henchmen use) and 50% is 100% against Shtick attacks and charges. I've never been able to find confirmation that it's been changed, and there are loading screen tips and other things that still say that's how it works. (Though those being out of date would not surprise.)
This has been eliminated quite a while back. LR does not depend on charge time anymore. Unless some stealth changes were made O_o.
now that LR, WotW, and Night warrior are fixed, can we please get a buff to PFF to make the passive worthwhile? how about a 30% damage resist bonus like regen or something.
(Emphasis mine)
All of my this.
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That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
This has been eliminated quite a while back. LR does not depend on charge time anymore. Unless some stealth changes were made O_o.
Not entirely true.
Go to Monster Island and use a charge attack against the Manimals there. A charged attack that one-shots most won't kill the Rats, but the Tap version will.
At least some NPCs still use old Dodge mechanics.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Go to Monster Island and use a charge attack against the Manimals there. A charged attack that one-shots most won't kill the Rats, but the Tap version will.
Very interesting twist of events here. While it seems the devs are heading in the direction with the adjustments to dodge and avoidance, crit chance and crit sev, offense etc, there is still much to be seen with regards to gear which people payed for.
It is sad that such a mess was allowed to take place earlier so much so that trying to fix things will now impact many paying gamers and the devs will face much displeasure.
Thumbs up to the devs: please fix the stuff that need fixing and then we can get back to the usual business of new missions, new maps, new powers, new costumes etc.
Seeing the number of bug fixes and effort to balance things (to a certain extent) is encouraging and almost enough to get me back into the game. I shall still hold out until I see things more stabilized before investing my time and money into it though. I have been at the receiving end of getting the rug pulled out from under my feet far too many times and I think without addressing the gear issues, many paying players will feel similarly disgruntled.
Damage Mitigating buffs from blocks should ALWAYS be higher when they are Melee only. Melee is suppose to have better damage mitigation over Ranged because they end up enduring more damage. Ranged players take less damage because they can stay at a distance. So allowing Ranged players to have better mitigation doesn't make sense.
Adding Damage Resistance as Parry's Advantage doesn't make any sense thematically for the power. Not to mention having two blocks that offer the exact same Advantage would be absolutely pointless.
I was looking at it from the perspective of active effect you have to give up something else for should be stronger than passive effect that's just always on. Which from a balance standpoint makes a good deal of sense, but I'll admit I wasn't considering range vs melee or PvP at all.
With that taken into account, it should probably be exactly even with fluidity - which is hard to define given fluidity's advantage is a variable buff. So I'd probably go back to the original idea of just change Elusive Monk to dodge chance and don't give us Fluidity at all because it's a power that serves no real purpose.
This has been eliminated quite a while back. LR does not depend on charge time anymore. Unless some stealth changes were made O_o.
Perhaps updating text descriptions should be on the bug-squashing agenda if it hasn't been already.
R2 and R3 Targeting Computer have their Lock On buff bonuses switched.
As for the Justice gear... the set bonus is a good opportunity to showcase the changes to Offense. Assuming that it's not just a testing set for PTS and is intended to eventually hit Live, it needs adjusting. Mainly, it shouldn't overpower Legion gear; at most it should be competitive to Legion gear and going from Legion to Justice would be a sidegrade. Otherwise, it's more power creep (which CO really doesn't need more of) and it will anger people who have invested into Legion gear.
Grind for the Grind God! Tokens for the Token Throne!
I hope you folks realize that Fluidity sucks. Without any damage resistance on the block surviving a Gravitar 80,000 yellow bubble becomes nearly impossible even with a dodge.
Fluidity alone gives 75.3% Avoidance at Rank 2. Say you have 35% in damage resistance from Defense. That yellow bubble on a DODGE hits you for 14,637 damage.
Now instead of Fluidity, say you take any regular block replacer at R2, that same yellow bubble hits you for 14,814 damage. Oh but then you still have a chance to dodge it.
R2 Laser Knight would yield damage of 9,453 and you also still have a chance for a dodge.
Who in their right mind would take Fluidity?
It needs to have some damage resistance apply when blocking. Even a simply 100% would cause the damage on a dodge to still be 7,318. 200% gives 4,879 in damage on a dodge. In any case, if you don't dodge you're probably dead.
Kindasorta related, since bug fixes and costume piece tweaks...
Is it at all possible to get the roin'esh gun hand available in the hands/short gloves category? Both the roin'esh sword and axe hands are available in hands/short gloves and long gloves, but the gun hand is long gloves only, which limits the use of the costume piece.
I'll make another post about this, since I am actually pretty concerned about this.
With all these changes, I think that for pve, build variety is even worse then it already way.
Defense and offense have such a big importance now that the guardian or warden and vindicator options will just blow all other options out of the water.
Even without nerfing dodge rating, defense would already be a much more viable option due to those specs. Now it would push everyone to use those, and with the other nice spec on guardian, find the mark, maintain attacks will pull ahead of charge attacks even more then they already do. We dont need things like TGM to have an even bigger advantage...
Except when people once again post that their Electric form, 50% dodge/Avoidance builds won't be 'viable' anymore.
50% I'm happy to get to 38% at level 40
also aiqa's comment about maintains, I use them a lot for the damage.(No PvP)
and while we're looking at crits
when I use whirlwind, especially with vortex, I notice a lot of scrolling crits, as in crit, crit, crit etc. Thats with a 30% or less change to crit. There's nothing in the description of power or advantage saying it should get more crits. The other maintain powers i have on the same builds don't, only Whirlwind.
now that LR, WotW, and Night warrior are fixed, can we please get a buff to PFF to make the passive worthwhile? how about a 30% damage resist bonus like regen or something.
Please, the forcefeild is meant to be protection, not a soap bubble that pops when attacked
On the face of it - changing the passives to flat percents is easier to predict, both from the player and the dev side, than the odd DR for dodge rating.
I do wonder now if the dodge curve for gear is too extreme. Seems like the Gambler's Gem took a huge hit and the one that provides defense is now far, far more useful.
I hope you folks realize that Fluidity sucks. Without any damage resistance on the block surviving a Gravitar 80,000 yellow bubble becomes nearly impossible even with a dodge.
If you're playing a character based around dodging... maybe you should roleplay that and get out of the bubble... you know...dodging it? :P
Since all passives that grant Dodge/Avoidance or Crit/Severity are getting looked at, will powers like Evasive Maneuvers and specializations also be looked over? (Not implying they need buffs/nerfs, but just whether they should be brought in line with this new system)
Fluidity is a nice addition, but seems a bit overpowered compared to other blocks.
R3 LR plus R2 Fluidity gets you over 100% dodge and almost 90% avoidance, and the advantage makes that somewhat persistent. I think that needs to be toned down some so you can't hit 100% dodge between those two powers unless they're both R3.
I think the dodge/avoidance numbers for LR, Quarry and WoTW seem pretty good now with gear.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
You can get 100% dodge at R2 with R3 LR. You don't have to sacrifice a certain dodge in order to get the advantage that makes it persistent.
I think Fluidity should give 20/30/40, so that at R2 with LR you'd be at 90% (plus gear, so probably closer to 93% or so).
As to the question of Gravitar's yellow bubbles, with 100% dodge and 90% avoidance, you'd probably be the last man standing. By itself, Fluidity may be dicey, but combined with other dodge-granting powers it can make you godly.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Of course, that's also because the R9s on PTS seem to be fixed as they give 99 boost each vs. 66 on live.
Can a dev please confirm whether those numbers are intentional? I don't have Rank 9s to check the numbers myself, but I'll take Bacon's word for it.
Compared to Rank 7 mods, Rank 9 mods on Live give only +4 stats... which has always been disappointingly low. But I was expecting something like a +10 difference, more in line with the rest of the mods' (admittedly uneven) rank progression. An overall stat difference of 60 for a full set seems like a reasonable gap.
A difference of +37 per mod sounds absurdly high, creating an overall gap of 222 stat points between Rank 7 in Heroic/Legion and Rank 9 in Justice. In terms of in-game currency, that's going to drive a much larger performance wedge between middle-class players and super-wealthy players.
If part of the purpose behind the legacy device and dodge nerfs is to limit the power of players who can afford the shiniest shinies, these new stat mod numbers seem counterintuitive.
Fluidity currently does not provide any damage resistance when blocking, removing even the base 200% resistance from a regular block. Is that intentional?
why take electric form if you can't dodge well? its like saying kill me now.
Nope. This is demonstrably false like so much that has been posted against the recent changes which is very telling around here... My Storm Bringer build crushes damn near anything in this game with only the base amount of dodge.
Nope. This is demonstrably false like so much that has been posted against the recent changes which is very telling around here... My Storm Bringer build crushes damn near anything in this game with only the base amount of dodge.
Same with using Ego Form with the base dodge/avoid. I decided to go around beating stuff up without it to see if all the doom and gloom was justified.
I died twice because of bad playing on my part.
I think we'll be just fine with dodge/avoid getting a nerf.
fluidity needs the damage resist buff. and dodge needs no fixing. this whole "balance" thing is being done the wrong way. nerf avoid perhaps, and/or increase supervillain thru cosmic difficulty. nerfing dodge and crit chance itself will only cause more problems than it fixes.
We can agree to disagree on whether or not dodge needs some correction. For my part, I like the flat numbers I'm seeing on PTS today and I think the dodge/avoid coming from gear is excessive. I still think we need less avoidance from gear and more on dodge-based passives, but I'd say we're moving in the right direction.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I agree that dodge from gear being the best way to get dodge is a little silly, but if we are going to nerf that we need more ways to increase dodge from specs than just the dex tree.
Now THAT I can get behind! :biggrin: (But not TOO many other ways)
I also believe that the specializations that grant dodge and avoidance need to be looked at as part of these changes. They've always seemed too weak to bother with, but I expect they'll be even less appealing now.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
yeah. they should grant flat dodge chance. but should be made so they cannot push you over a certain amount of dodge chance on their own.
Looking at Deflection in the CON tree and Quick Reflexes in the DEX tree, I think 2/4/6% or so would be about right (depending on your stat scaling). That's a significant boost, yet low enough that you shouldn't have to worry too much about capping it.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I would still very much like more information on the mod numbers coming from Justice Gear.
I don't believe Justice Gear should be granting higher mod bonuses than other gear. I do, however, feel that R8 and R9 mods need a significant boost across the board.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
All look like good changes to me, for whatever that's worth. The only thing I'd suggest in addition is change the Elusive Monk advantage on Parry to grant flat dodge chance since it is I believe now the only power in the game still granting dodge rating which makes me wonder if it just got forgotten about.
I agree, Elusive Monk is essential to many DEX-based melee builds. It needs to be updated as well.
Regardless of that though, going by what seems to be the current design philosophy it should be granting flat dodge chance like every other power that affects dodge. As it is currently it seems wrong. It's like if one (and only one) of all the various powers that buff damage resistance just randomly gave defense instead.
As it is currently, the intention seems to be that powers buff dodge chance and damage resistance directly while gear grants a minor buff to the same via dodge rating and defense. Parry w/ Elusive Monk is currently an exception to that intention, and it shouldn't be.
So I suggest this: Change Elusive Monk to grant dodge chance instead of rating. Simple, no? Make it less than the buff Fluidity gives, with or without advantage. Because with Fluidity you have to activate the block for two seconds thus reducing your damage output, so you should get a better defensive return from it.
Alternate suggestion: Scrap the current advantage on Fluidity and move Elusive Monk to there, as a flat bonus of course but otherwise functioning as it does now. Or keep the current one as well and just have a choice of advantages because more choice is always better at least from the players' perspective. Then make Parry's advantage give damage resistance instead, effectively a copy of the Laser Knight advantage on Energy Shield. It's a bit more complicated but this is honestly the solution I'd prefer. One block power that's wholely for dodge based builds, and one that's for other builds.[/QUOTE]
I prefer your alternate suggestion. I don't like Fludity as-is. Too many complications that are open to unintentional exploitation, we just haven't discovered them all yet.
This build is scheduled to hit PTS at 6pm PST, 10/2/2013
Greetings!
This patch continues our bug-fix drive. It also contains updates to the preview dodge changes that you saw in FC.31.20130824.10.
Yay bug fixes!
Also, please consider changing how mods work. There needs to be more of an incentive fro ranking up mods, and currently R9 is too weak to overcome diminishing returns to be noticable effective. The +99 seems to be a bug, but I'd consider rebalancing like this:
R0 = no bonus, tutorial purposes only, can be fused into R1
R1 = +11 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R0 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R2 = +22 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R1 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R3 = +33 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R2 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R4 = +44 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R3 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R5 = +55 to a stat, 95% (5% failure) fusion chance from R4 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R6 = +66 to a stat, 90% (10% failure) fusion chance from R5 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R7 = +77 to a stat, 80% (20% failure) fusion chance from R6 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R8 = +88 to a stat, 60% (40% failure) fusion chance from R7 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
R9 = +99 to a stat, 20% (80% failure) fusion chance from R8 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
* note: if not in that crafting type, the failure rate is increased by 20% across the board
This makes it easy enough for most people to get excellent mod gear between Rank 5 and Rank 7, increase the desirability for Rank Up catalysts, reinforces the need to have characters in each crafting type (Arms, Science, or Mysticism), AND encourages sales of Crafting Skill Ups and use of Crafting Nodes in Zones (for new players).
Release Notes:
Preview (these will not be part of the next live build):
Field Surge: This power is no longer damaged when you try to break free from holds.
Personal Force Field: This power is no longer damaged when you try to break free from holds.
Lightning Reflexes: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 30/40/50% more chance to dodge.
Night Warrior: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 10/15/20% more chance to dodge.
Way of the Warrior: This power no longer grants Dodge Rating. This power now grants 15/20/25% more chance to dodge.
*NEW POWER* Fluidity: This power is a block replacer. While active it increases your Dodge Chance and grants Avoidance Rating.
*NEW ADVANTAGE* Flow like the River: If Fluidity is maintained for at least 2 seconds, its bonuses will decay over 10 seconds once you stop maintaining it. 3 Points.
Quarry: This power now grants 10% base dodge and +5% base Avoidance per stack (down from 15% and 7.5% respectively). Additionally, the maximum bonus per stack of this power has been reduced to 20 per stack (down from 30).
Targeting Computer: The Crit Chance and Severity bonus of this power now ranks up when the power does. 5/7.5/10% Crit Chance and 10/12.5/15% Critical Severity while locked on.
Targeting Computer needed this. Thank you! And yes I agree with others who say it'd be nice to have a way to "lock on" BEFORE entering combat. Maybe a special power you get when you receive this passive? Kind of like how you get Stealth and Shadow Strike when you get Night Warrior?
I'm not happy with Quarry's nerf but I'll make do with it. A friend of mine, Aphiel (@nbkxs) will be particularly impacted by this and I feel for his loss. I think Rikku will be hit by it hard too. In the long run it might be the right choice... though I'd appreciate their two cents on this. Maybe they'd be for the change, or critical of it. I dunno. *shrug* "So be it" is my overall reaction on this change, no outstanding objections thus far from me.
Fluidity can be used to get 99% dodge chance. That seems broken, don't you think? I'd strongly recommend taking a closer look at ways to amp up dodge chance.
PFF, Lightning Reflexes, and Night Warrior changes, all excellent!
PS: Can you do something about Celestial Cleansing not working? It doesn't do what the description says it does. Would be nice if it removed debuffs. Things like the Trauma debuff don't have a counter.
PPS: Aspect of the Bestial R3 still is broken after over a year. And Incendary Rounds 2 is still exploitable. Lots of things still need fixing beyond dodge/avoid balancing.
Costumes:
Female characters now have access to a second Beast Leg variant. This variant was previously restricted to NPCs.
Yay! But you all realize you have a LOT more work to do right? Including costumes which are no longer accessible (and aren't in the Legacy boxes from the Drifter)
Other:
Unity HQ: Fixed a hole in the ceiling of the teleporter room.
Yay!
Please format any bugs you find in the following format: Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.[/QUOTE]
when you block you can't attack. I seriously don't see how this is OP.
Then you aren't seeing things.
Think about it. It's rather easy to attack while blocking, it's called DoT and pets. It's one of the good tactics I used to use with Ebon Void block + Voracious darkness:
1. Summon pets or do DoT damage
2. Mark a target with some sort of ranged attack to get your pets to attack
3. Block while that target tries to attack you. They can't hurt you much while your pets eat them.
4. Self-heal occasionally to offset any HP loss
5. Rinse & repeat if pets die
Back when 5 Pheromones was a thing, I know several people who used JUST that sequence in PvP if they realized their opponent lacked Crippling Challenge. And in PvE it's even more reliable because NPCs don't have Crippling Challenge.
Think before you write please, you look very noobish at the moment to be honest with you.
I took a MA melee tank toon onto the PTS to check out Fluidity and found it to be so-so.
While standing idle in average gear* I've got a 68% dodge chance and 77% avoidance with R3 Lightning Reflexes.
In combat, dodge will jump sporadically between 70 to 103% without Fluidity or Masterful Dodge.
With Fluidity's advantage, dodge will start around 105% and slowly drop back to the sporadic jumping about as different abilities and spec bonuses procced.
With Masterful Dodge active and Fluidity maintained I'll stay at 307% dodge and 88% avoidance. If I activate the advantage while MD is active it starts at 307% and stays well into the 200 range until MD wears off.
Switching out Fluidity for Parry+advantage, I saw the dodge numbers in combat still be kinda sporadic between the 70 to 100 percent range. The major difference I saw between using Fluidity and Parry is the BCR healing. While fighting, I healed more often with Parry. While blocking, I healed more often with Fluidity although the hits I took were harder.
With full Justice gear on both a Fluidity and a Parry build the numbers really didn't change much. A 5% variance at most. Crit rates, dodge chance and damage seemed to be roughly the same. The cooldown reduction on the Mask of Speed with a R5 Impact mod did bring my Active Defense of Offense abilities down to a 45 second cooldown and BCR to 7 but the BCR cooldown never really mattered in either set of gear because of Storm's Eye Prana
I'm really on the fence about Fluidity. It doesn't behave like your average Block Enhancer but if you know how to make it work for you it can be effective.
* - 2 slot blue primaries and purple secondaries that are either mission rewards or drops. No Questionite, Recognition or Lockbox gear. Mods rank no higher than 5
As far as mods go, that really needs to be looked into.
One thing that's got me worried is that if Justice gear is put in a new series of lockboxes, and doesn't replace Legion gear in the old ones, the supply of costume pieces from them is going to TANK. Who'd want to open a Forum, Socrates, or 4th Anniversary box if the new ones drop gear that completely outclasses what's found in them? Sure, a few people might still go for the costume bits, but it's going to drive the prices up to where they become way too expensive, ESPECIALLY a full set.
This kind of illustrates why it's so aggravating for costume pieces to only come as random drops from boxes in the first place. At the very least there should have been a way to buy them with Salvage so you aren't completely at the mercy of the RNG if you choose to try and open them. Right now it seems like actually USING keys is kind of the wrong way to go about things; you should sell them for globals and let someone else take the risks.
Those were the first numbers that popped into my head too, but I was worried it would again make the combined dodge numbers excessive.
At 6% dodge chance, it would still be a 12% improvement over R3 LR's 50%, and a much larger percent improvement on Quarry and WoTW. If R3 WoTW grants 25% dodge, 6% is a 24% improvement in performance.
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The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
@agentnx5
you are the one who isn't seeing things. not everyone USES pets and DoT. just because you CAN get something OP isnt a reason to screw everyone else. this is how we ended up with this disastrous nerf in the first place.
I don't give a rats _)@ about what you can do with an OP min maxxed build. nerfing globally like this will only hurt the majority of the playerbase. I daresay YOU are the one who is looking silly, by acting like everyone should take this this and this power.
I'm not acting like that. I'm pointing out your statement was false -- that you CAN do damage while blocking.
Also if you don't give a rat's ***, then why are you here in the PTS?! This is for people who you know, care about the game as a whole (not all do granted, some might just be here to push a self-serving agenda or something, but the vast majority DO really care and make an effort with no repayment for their time). I take some pride in that I actually help bring up potential issues in the game, so with the hope they might someday be fixed. And I'm not the most helpful person here, but I do give a "rat's ****" about ALL aspects, including the top-tier stuff. PvP, PvE, and RP. All of it. Until recently the devs have basically neglected us for the past year or so, if they're serious about getting bugs fixed and balance issues improved then they need our help, not misinformation and squabbling.
Thanks for that. What I'd really like to know though is whether or not those inflated numbers are intentional or a bug.
Only a dev could answer that for certainty. But I'm going with a bug. I'd recommend keeping it in a sense however, as I explained on the previous page and also here. Like rocket jumping in TFC and Quake (which was unintended), it later became a mainstay part of the TF2 Soldier class. Same thing here I'd propose, because there needs to be a reason to go for R9's to keep people wanting to fuse stuff. Currently on Live, the difference between R7 and R9 is negligible because of diminishing returns hitting on top of already high stats (+4 wouldn't make much of a difference, if any; +22 would be slight, but might give you an extra 1% or two, more HP, more energy, etc).
Comments
Agreed. Double stacking it, hell even just 1 stack of it, might raise your dodge chance, but it's digging into your damage output.
That said, I wouldn't be upset at 10/15/20% or 14/18/22% with this ability, and would feel it's still worth the use..
This has been eliminated quite a while back. LR does not depend on charge time anymore. Unless some stealth changes were made O_o.
All of my this.
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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Not entirely true.
Go to Monster Island and use a charge attack against the Manimals there. A charged attack that one-shots most won't kill the Rats, but the Tap version will.
At least some NPCs still use old Dodge mechanics.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Was talking about LR you know lol.
. . .How about those Goatees?
It is sad that such a mess was allowed to take place earlier so much so that trying to fix things will now impact many paying gamers and the devs will face much displeasure.
Thumbs up to the devs: please fix the stuff that need fixing and then we can get back to the usual business of new missions, new maps, new powers, new costumes etc.
Seeing the number of bug fixes and effort to balance things (to a certain extent) is encouraging and almost enough to get me back into the game. I shall still hold out until I see things more stabilized before investing my time and money into it though. I have been at the receiving end of getting the rug pulled out from under my feet far too many times and I think without addressing the gear issues, many paying players will feel similarly disgruntled.
I was looking at it from the perspective of active effect you have to give up something else for should be stronger than passive effect that's just always on. Which from a balance standpoint makes a good deal of sense, but I'll admit I wasn't considering range vs melee or PvP at all.
With that taken into account, it should probably be exactly even with fluidity - which is hard to define given fluidity's advantage is a variable buff. So I'd probably go back to the original idea of just change Elusive Monk to dodge chance and don't give us Fluidity at all because it's a power that serves no real purpose.
Perhaps updating text descriptions should be on the bug-squashing agenda if it hasn't been already.
R2 and R3 Targeting Computer have their Lock On buff bonuses switched.
As for the Justice gear... the set bonus is a good opportunity to showcase the changes to Offense. Assuming that it's not just a testing set for PTS and is intended to eventually hit Live, it needs adjusting. Mainly, it shouldn't overpower Legion gear; at most it should be competitive to Legion gear and going from Legion to Justice would be a sidegrade. Otherwise, it's more power creep (which CO really doesn't need more of) and it will anger people who have invested into Legion gear.
So was I. Some NPCs, like the Rats I mentioned, have LR. And those enemies have old style dodge, rather than the updated version players use.
And there's nothing special about LR. Its Dodge is exactly the same as the Dodge from any other source, just in different quantities.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Fluidity alone gives 75.3% Avoidance at Rank 2. Say you have 35% in damage resistance from Defense. That yellow bubble on a DODGE hits you for 14,637 damage.
Now instead of Fluidity, say you take any regular block replacer at R2, that same yellow bubble hits you for 14,814 damage. Oh but then you still have a chance to dodge it.
R2 Laser Knight would yield damage of 9,453 and you also still have a chance for a dodge.
Who in their right mind would take Fluidity?
It needs to have some damage resistance apply when blocking. Even a simply 100% would cause the damage on a dodge to still be 7,318. 200% gives 4,879 in damage on a dodge. In any case, if you don't dodge you're probably dead.
Is it at all possible to get the roin'esh gun hand available in the hands/short gloves category? Both the roin'esh sword and axe hands are available in hands/short gloves and long gloves, but the gun hand is long gloves only, which limits the use of the costume piece.
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With all these changes, I think that for pve, build variety is even worse then it already way.
Defense and offense have such a big importance now that the guardian or warden and vindicator options will just blow all other options out of the water.
Even without nerfing dodge rating, defense would already be a much more viable option due to those specs. Now it would push everyone to use those, and with the other nice spec on guardian, find the mark, maintain attacks will pull ahead of charge attacks even more then they already do. We dont need things like TGM to have an even bigger advantage...
50% I'm happy to get to 38% at level 40
also aiqa's comment about maintains, I use them a lot for the damage.(No PvP)
and while we're looking at crits
when I use whirlwind, especially with vortex, I notice a lot of scrolling crits, as in crit, crit, crit etc. Thats with a 30% or less change to crit. There's nothing in the description of power or advantage saying it should get more crits. The other maintain powers i have on the same builds don't, only Whirlwind.
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Please, the forcefeild is meant to be protection, not a soap bubble that pops when attacked
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On the face of it - changing the passives to flat percents is easier to predict, both from the player and the dev side, than the odd DR for dodge rating.
I do wonder now if the dodge curve for gear is too extreme. Seems like the Gambler's Gem took a huge hit and the one that provides defense is now far, far more useful.
Was that quite what you all were going for?
Gambler's Gem out, defense one in?
If you're playing a character based around dodging... maybe you should roleplay that and get out of the bubble... you know...dodging it? :P
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R3 LR plus R2 Fluidity gets you over 100% dodge and almost 90% avoidance, and the advantage makes that somewhat persistent. I think that needs to be toned down some so you can't hit 100% dodge between those two powers unless they're both R3.
I think the dodge/avoidance numbers for LR, Quarry and WoTW seem pretty good now with gear.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
You only need to block for 2 seconds to get the bonus to be persistent through the advantage. Blocking immediately boosts your dodge and avoidance.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I think Fluidity should give 20/30/40, so that at R2 with LR you'd be at 90% (plus gear, so probably closer to 93% or so).
As to the question of Gravitar's yellow bubbles, with 100% dodge and 90% avoidance, you'd probably be the last man standing. By itself, Fluidity may be dicey, but combined with other dodge-granting powers it can make you godly.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Can a dev please confirm whether those numbers are intentional? I don't have Rank 9s to check the numbers myself, but I'll take Bacon's word for it.
Compared to Rank 7 mods, Rank 9 mods on Live give only +4 stats... which has always been disappointingly low. But I was expecting something like a +10 difference, more in line with the rest of the mods' (admittedly uneven) rank progression. An overall stat difference of 60 for a full set seems like a reasonable gap.
A difference of +37 per mod sounds absurdly high, creating an overall gap of 222 stat points between Rank 7 in Heroic/Legion and Rank 9 in Justice. In terms of in-game currency, that's going to drive a much larger performance wedge between middle-class players and super-wealthy players.
If part of the purpose behind the legacy device and dodge nerfs is to limit the power of players who can afford the shiniest shinies, these new stat mod numbers seem counterintuitive.
Fluidity currently does not provide any damage resistance when blocking, removing even the base 200% resistance from a regular block. Is that intentional?
Yup
Yup.
Nope. This is demonstrably false like so much that has been posted against the recent changes which is very telling around here... My Storm Bringer build crushes damn near anything in this game with only the base amount of dodge.
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Same with using Ego Form with the base dodge/avoid. I decided to go around beating stuff up without it to see if all the doom and gloom was justified.
I died twice because of bad playing on my part.
I think we'll be just fine with dodge/avoid getting a nerf.
WotW (35%) + R3 Evasive (24%) + R2 Fluidity (40%) = 99% dodge on an offensive passive = the new GodMode.
If we're going to fix dodge, let's fix it. With Fluidity as it is, we'd just be swapping builds and gear without balancing anything.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
We can agree to disagree on whether or not dodge needs some correction. For my part, I like the flat numbers I'm seeing on PTS today and I think the dodge/avoid coming from gear is excessive. I still think we need less avoidance from gear and more on dodge-based passives, but I'd say we're moving in the right direction.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Now THAT I can get behind! :biggrin: (But not TOO many other ways)
I also believe that the specializations that grant dodge and avoidance need to be looked at as part of these changes. They've always seemed too weak to bother with, but I expect they'll be even less appealing now.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Looking at Deflection in the CON tree and Quick Reflexes in the DEX tree, I think 2/4/6% or so would be about right (depending on your stat scaling). That's a significant boost, yet low enough that you shouldn't have to worry too much about capping it.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I don't believe Justice Gear should be granting higher mod bonuses than other gear. I do, however, feel that R8 and R9 mods need a significant boost across the board.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I agree, Elusive Monk is essential to many DEX-based melee builds. It needs to be updated as well.
Regardless of that though, going by what seems to be the current design philosophy it should be granting flat dodge chance like every other power that affects dodge. As it is currently it seems wrong. It's like if one (and only one) of all the various powers that buff damage resistance just randomly gave defense instead.
As it is currently, the intention seems to be that powers buff dodge chance and damage resistance directly while gear grants a minor buff to the same via dodge rating and defense. Parry w/ Elusive Monk is currently an exception to that intention, and it shouldn't be.
So I suggest this: Change Elusive Monk to grant dodge chance instead of rating. Simple, no? Make it less than the buff Fluidity gives, with or without advantage. Because with Fluidity you have to activate the block for two seconds thus reducing your damage output, so you should get a better defensive return from it.
Alternate suggestion: Scrap the current advantage on Fluidity and move Elusive Monk to there, as a flat bonus of course but otherwise functioning as it does now. Or keep the current one as well and just have a choice of advantages because more choice is always better at least from the players' perspective. Then make Parry's advantage give damage resistance instead, effectively a copy of the Laser Knight advantage on Energy Shield. It's a bit more complicated but this is honestly the solution I'd prefer. One block power that's wholely for dodge based builds, and one that's for other builds.[/QUOTE]
I prefer your alternate suggestion. I don't like Fludity as-is. Too many complications that are open to unintentional exploitation, we just haven't discovered them all yet.
Yay bug fixes!
Also, please consider changing how mods work. There needs to be more of an incentive fro ranking up mods, and currently R9 is too weak to overcome diminishing returns to be noticable effective. The +99 seems to be a bug, but I'd consider rebalancing like this:
- R0 = no bonus, tutorial purposes only, can be fused into R1
- R1 = +11 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R0 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R2 = +22 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R1 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R3 = +33 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R2 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R4 = +44 to a stat, 100% fusion chance from R3 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R5 = +55 to a stat, 95% (5% failure) fusion chance from R4 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R6 = +66 to a stat, 90% (10% failure) fusion chance from R5 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R7 = +77 to a stat, 80% (20% failure) fusion chance from R6 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R8 = +88 to a stat, 60% (40% failure) fusion chance from R7 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
- R9 = +99 to a stat, 20% (80% failure) fusion chance from R8 @ 400 skill in that crafting type
* note: if not in that crafting type, the failure rate is increased by 20% across the boardThis makes it easy enough for most people to get excellent mod gear between Rank 5 and Rank 7, increase the desirability for Rank Up catalysts, reinforces the need to have characters in each crafting type (Arms, Science, or Mysticism), AND encourages sales of Crafting Skill Ups and use of Crafting Nodes in Zones (for new players).
Targeting Computer needed this. Thank you! And yes I agree with others who say it'd be nice to have a way to "lock on" BEFORE entering combat. Maybe a special power you get when you receive this passive? Kind of like how you get Stealth and Shadow Strike when you get Night Warrior?
I'm not happy with Quarry's nerf but I'll make do with it. A friend of mine, Aphiel (@nbkxs) will be particularly impacted by this and I feel for his loss. I think Rikku will be hit by it hard too. In the long run it might be the right choice... though I'd appreciate their two cents on this. Maybe they'd be for the change, or critical of it. I dunno. *shrug* "So be it" is my overall reaction on this change, no outstanding objections thus far from me.
Fluidity can be used to get 99% dodge chance. That seems broken, don't you think? I'd strongly recommend taking a closer look at ways to amp up dodge chance.
PFF, Lightning Reflexes, and Night Warrior changes, all excellent!
PS: Can you do something about Celestial Cleansing not working? It doesn't do what the description says it does. Would be nice if it removed debuffs. Things like the Trauma debuff don't have a counter.
PPS: Aspect of the Bestial R3 still is broken after over a year. And Incendary Rounds 2 is still exploitable. Lots of things still need fixing beyond dodge/avoid balancing.
Yay! But you all realize you have a LOT more work to do right? Including costumes which are no longer accessible (and aren't in the Legacy boxes from the Drifter)
Yay!
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.[/QUOTE]
Then you aren't seeing things.
Think about it. It's rather easy to attack while blocking, it's called DoT and pets. It's one of the good tactics I used to use with Ebon Void block + Voracious darkness:
1. Summon pets or do DoT damage
2. Mark a target with some sort of ranged attack to get your pets to attack
3. Block while that target tries to attack you. They can't hurt you much while your pets eat them.
4. Self-heal occasionally to offset any HP loss
5. Rinse & repeat if pets die
Back when 5 Pheromones was a thing, I know several people who used JUST that sequence in PvP if they realized their opponent lacked Crippling Challenge. And in PvE it's even more reliable because NPCs don't have Crippling Challenge.
Think before you write please, you look very noobish at the moment to be honest with you.
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While standing idle in average gear* I've got a 68% dodge chance and 77% avoidance with R3 Lightning Reflexes.
In combat, dodge will jump sporadically between 70 to 103% without Fluidity or Masterful Dodge.
With Fluidity's advantage, dodge will start around 105% and slowly drop back to the sporadic jumping about as different abilities and spec bonuses procced.
With Masterful Dodge active and Fluidity maintained I'll stay at 307% dodge and 88% avoidance. If I activate the advantage while MD is active it starts at 307% and stays well into the 200 range until MD wears off.
Switching out Fluidity for Parry+advantage, I saw the dodge numbers in combat still be kinda sporadic between the 70 to 100 percent range. The major difference I saw between using Fluidity and Parry is the BCR healing. While fighting, I healed more often with Parry. While blocking, I healed more often with Fluidity although the hits I took were harder.
With full Justice gear on both a Fluidity and a Parry build the numbers really didn't change much. A 5% variance at most. Crit rates, dodge chance and damage seemed to be roughly the same. The cooldown reduction on the Mask of Speed with a R5 Impact mod did bring my Active Defense of Offense abilities down to a 45 second cooldown and BCR to 7 but the BCR cooldown never really mattered in either set of gear because of Storm's Eye Prana
I'm really on the fence about Fluidity. It doesn't behave like your average Block Enhancer but if you know how to make it work for you it can be effective.
* - 2 slot blue primaries and purple secondaries that are either mission rewards or drops. No Questionite, Recognition or Lockbox gear. Mods rank no higher than 5
As far as mods go, that really needs to be looked into.
Green lvl 40 Primary Utility: R5 Dex Armoring gives +55 Dex
Justice Mask of Speed: r4 Dex Armoring gives +76 Dex
Blue lvl 40 Primary Defense: R5 Gambler gives +119 Dodge
Justice Tights of Agility: R4 Gambler gives +174 Dodge
Seriously?
This kind of illustrates why it's so aggravating for costume pieces to only come as random drops from boxes in the first place. At the very least there should have been a way to buy them with Salvage so you aren't completely at the mercy of the RNG if you choose to try and open them. Right now it seems like actually USING keys is kind of the wrong way to go about things; you should sell them for globals and let someone else take the risks.
Those were the first numbers that popped into my head too, but I was worried it would again make the combined dodge numbers excessive.
At 6% dodge chance, it would still be a 12% improvement over R3 LR's 50%, and a much larger percent improvement on Quarry and WoTW. If R3 WoTW grants 25% dodge, 6% is a 24% improvement in performance.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I'm not acting like that. I'm pointing out your statement was false -- that you CAN do damage while blocking.
I also voiced my concerns already about the dodge nerf here:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3602221&postcount=18
Also if you don't give a rat's ***, then why are you here in the PTS?! This is for people who you know, care about the game as a whole (not all do granted, some might just be here to push a self-serving agenda or something, but the vast majority DO really care and make an effort with no repayment for their time). I take some pride in that I actually help bring up potential issues in the game, so with the hope they might someday be fixed. And I'm not the most helpful person here, but I do give a "rat's ****" about ALL aspects, including the top-tier stuff. PvP, PvE, and RP. All of it. Until recently the devs have basically neglected us for the past year or so, if they're serious about getting bugs fixed and balance issues improved then they need our help, not misinformation and squabbling.
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Thanks for that. What I'd really like to know though is whether or not those inflated numbers are intentional or a bug.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Wonderful!
Also that explains how a few people are able to have over 20,000 HP in the PTS. Makes Growth Cores not look so useless for defense slotting.
Only a dev could answer that for certainty. But I'm going with a bug. I'd recommend keeping it in a sense however, as I explained on the previous page and also here. Like rocket jumping in TFC and Quake (which was unintended), it later became a mainstay part of the TF2 Soldier class. Same thing here I'd propose, because there needs to be a reason to go for R9's to keep people wanting to fuse stuff. Currently on Live, the difference between R7 and R9 is negligible because of diminishing returns hitting on top of already high stats (+4 wouldn't make much of a difference, if any; +22 would be slight, but might give you an extra 1% or two, more HP, more energy, etc).
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)