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when are we getting new open worlds?

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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Only agreement I'm in is that the expectation of the confirmed total of two devs working on this game to release a new zone is pretty far-fetched.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    One would think that having a new zone would come out with a decent amount of content, by itself, but I am an RPer. So just getting a new zone would be awesome in itself for me. I would be happy if they would just open up maps they use for missions as places to go into and turn them into Social zones and minis zones.

    Since they are maps they already have I would think it would take less time to add stuff to them.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    From last years news: The numbers are actually worse than I've been saying.

    I thought we had 2.5 million new players as of September 2012, however we only had 1,746,351.

    My New Champions count would have to start over when those numbers were pulled.

    If I can track down a New Champion from September 2012 I would have number to start with.
    Anyone on the forums that signed up last September and is still in their New Champions SG?

    drgmstr wrote: »
    There is also a nifty feature called /anon. Did you count those as well who rather hide their online status while they are playing?


    Does Anon make it so that other players are ignored, so that people
    have to beg for players to que for gravitar, or a radiation rumble alert for twenty minutes?
    Thirty minutes to get help with Kevin Poe at level 8 or Fatal Error.
    This is a daily occurrence.

    Does Anon make it so there are thirteen minute lulls in zone chat?
    Does Anon kill conversation on public channels for hours at a time, in three games?

    Does anon make it so that players are invisible so that it takes me minutes of flying in Canada before I find a player?

    Does Anon cause waves of level 6 and 9 players in Alerts repeatedly for hours while
    the Alert ques take 20 minutes to activate and then fail half the time for lack of players queued?

    Does Anon cast a shroud of concealment over new players so they can't be found at
    Defender or in the Powerhouse or at Kodiak or the PVP pit in most zones for great lengths of time?
    You know we can count new players visually, they are marked for us.

    How come its mostly the night crew that uses Anon?.
    According to you guys, when the sun goes down over the Cryptic building, at least 5 to 150 people in every zone, for every hour, every night, for two years, go deep into the shadows of Anonymous MMO gaming. They don't log off in the tutorial at level 2, they are just shy level 40s that want a new zone.

    Of course!
  • towershield#4714 towershield Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ...


    Does Anon make it so that other players are ignored, so that people
    have to beg for players to que for gravitar, or a radiation rumble alert for twenty minutes?
    Thirty minutes to get help with Kevin Poe at level 8 or Fatal Error.
    This is a daily occurrence.

    Does Anon make it so there are thirteen minute lulls in zone chat?
    Does Anon kill conversation on public channels for hours at a time, in three games?

    Does anon make it so that players are invisible so that it takes me minutes of flying in Canada before I find a player?

    Does Anon cause waves of level 6 and 9 players in Alerts repeatedly for hours while
    the Alert ques take 20 minutes to activate and then fail half the time for lack of players queued?

    Does Anon cast a shroud of concealment over new players so they can't be found at
    Defender or in the Powerhouse or at Kodiak or the PVP pit in most zones for great lengths of time?
    You know we can count new players visually, they are marked for us.

    How come its mostly the night crew that uses Anon?.
    According to you guys, when the sun goes down over the Cryptic building, at least 5 to 150 people in every zone, for every hour, every night, for two years, go deep into the shadows of Anonymous MMO gaming. They don't log off in the tutorial at level 2, they are just shy level 40s that want a new zone.


    Of course!

    You know good and well what the /anon command does, stop being obtuse about it. While a visual headcount will trump someone's /anon status, you'd have to conduct one every single time you performed a census on a zone to make sure they were counted. A feat that I hope you're not also now claiming to have successfully performed in addition to everything else. I also sincerely doubt you've actually been researching these numbers as long as you say you have in the first place, especially since you've never mentioned having done so before you got called out the other day for trying to pass off anecdotal one-shot numbers as solid proof of the state of the overall player population.

    According to who? Nobody has ever said or implied anything of the sort.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    There is no shortage of things to argue about.

    The game population is hella low by ANY count or standards. You don't need to run the servers to know that.

    Next Argument
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I need to win an internet argument, because that is a thing, right?
    ___________________________________________________________

    Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You know, I used to reject the idea, but at this point I'm convinced they should just go full f2p and give freeform, power coloring, etc. to all players.

    Just, with freeform, set various power groups as unlocks, like ATs.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    You know, I used to reject the idea, but at this point I'm convinced they should just go full f2p and give freeform, power coloring, etc. to all players.

    Just, with freeform, set various power groups as unlocks, like ATs.

    So give everyone freeform, and then make freeform like archetypes. Point?

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Uh. The point is that it would make a much more enticing game that people would be more encouraged to actually play, stick around, grow community, and spend money on other stuff?
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Uh. The point is that it would make a much more enticing game that people would be more encouraged to actually play, stick around, grow community, and spend money on other stuff?

    I don't think it would actually do that.

    On the other hand, giving everyone a free Freeform slot, no stipulations, would. The last thing we need is anything else that looks like a blatant money grab, even if it isn't.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • blumoon8blumoon8 Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    A single freeform slot for everyone sounds like a win. In the end, people who weren't interested now have one and maybe be interested in either getting more or going gold. It also serves the purpose of restoring faith in the company as well as bringing in a huge flux of players if it is marketed properly. However, this game has terrible marketing. Just awful. But I don't know if that comes down on Cryptic heads or the Champs team specifically.

    In other news it may garner the funds for a new zone, which may help to bring old players back and keep the newer ones around. But that's only contingent on good enough sales and company investment in the game... and also if they can pull it off in a timely yet unbuggy manner, which is like the bane of every Cryptic game ever.

    I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.

    I'm @blu8 in game! :D
  • ariesmajorariesmajor Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    blumoon8 wrote: »
    A single freeform slot for everyone sounds like a win. In the end, people who weren't interested now have one and maybe be interested in either getting more or going gold. It also serves the purpose of restoring faith in the company as well as bringing in a huge flux of players if it is marketed properly. However, this game has terrible marketing. Just awful. But I don't know if that comes down on Cryptic heads or the Champs team specifically.

    In other news it may garner the funds for a new zone, which may help to bring old players back and keep the newer ones around. But that's only contingent on good enough sales and company investment in the game... and also if they can pull it off in a timely yet unbuggy manner, which is like the bane of every Cryptic game ever.

    Even If you're like me and buy freeform slots, 1 is never enough. Now One could easily say, well why don't you sub or go lifetime? I prefer buying stuff sporatically, and investing in each individual thing. Plus throwing around 300 dollars isn't something I regularly do for 1 game....ever. And as far as Subs go, nobody wants more bills to look at at the end of the month.

    So for me, buying my first freeform slot just leads to wanting more of them. And spending yet another 50 bucks on one. If they gave away 1 freeform slot for like some kinda event thing, I know theres gotta be plenty of silver players out there that will go nuts with that and stay invested time wise in the game.
  • blumoon8blumoon8 Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ariesmajor wrote: »
    Even If you're like me and buy freeform slots, 1 is never enough. Now One could easily say, well why don't you sub or go lifetime? I prefer buying stuff sporatically, and investing in each individual thing. Plus throwing around 300 dollars isn't something I regularly do for 1 game....ever. And as far as Subs go, nobody wants more bills to look at at the end of the month.

    So for me, buying my first freeform slot just leads to wanting more of them. And spending yet another 50 bucks on one. If they gave away 1 freeform slot for like some kinda event thing, I know theres gotta be plenty of silver players out there that will go nuts with that and stay invested time wise in the game.

    Exactly! Another perk. And if people stay longer and there's a slower churning rate, then the game can slowly build up. At least hopefully. But then I'm reminded that we're talking about Cryptic here and.. ehhh... they'd probably still find a way to mess it up but always hope I suppose xD

    The question is would they ever be willing to let go of a 50$ purchase for free? I would be laughing right now... if they hadn't already crushed my soul. /end over dramatics

    I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.

    I'm @blu8 in game! :D
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    blumoon8 wrote: »
    [...]
    The question is would they ever be willing to let go of a 50$ purchase for free? I would be laughing right now... if they hadn't already crushed my soul. /end over dramatics

    Hopefully at some point they realize that by letting go of a $50 sale that they likely would not have had anyway, the would be pulling in actual sales of slots, subscriptions, and possibly other items.

    You know, like giving out free samples of crackers at the supermarket...

    Wait...that's not right. It's actually more like when a crack dealer gives out that first crack for free to get em hooked... cause boy do people get hooked on those FF alts after they make their first one!

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,778 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    One freeform slot as of September 1st sounds like an idea.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    One freeform slot as of September 1st sounds like an idea.

    Waaaait for it...
    pumpkin-dog-biscuits11.jpg

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    While I personally think they should just overhaul the entire thing and let everyone have freeform, one freeform slot hits a sweet spot of not requiring significant development time, not requiring as much of a leap of faith, and still being potentially beneficial.

    If I were Cryptic, I would time the announcement of a free FF slot with a release of other content, and SOME advertising. Even advertising limited to 'a few banners on the other PWE games/site.'


    It's not going to entirely save the game, but I predict it would have a shot in the arm effect on par with On Alert.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    It's not going to entirely save the game, but I predict it would have a shot in the arm effect on par with On Alert.

    For who? The people who left didn't leave because the game got free-er. You'd just be giving drugs to junkies who don't know how to quit
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    For who? The people who left didn't leave because the game got free-er. You'd just be giving drugs to junkies who don't know how to quit

    They would also be making new junkies. This is good because Cryptic is the dealer.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    They would also be making new junkies. This is good because Cryptic is the dealer.

    New Junkies? I assume you mean people who have not already played and quit champions online that want to play a superhero MMO but havent found CO already?

    Yeah. They're coming in droves.. RIGHT AFTER you do zero advertising and release the only good feature of the game for free (customization). /sarcasm
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think a lot of people tried CO without putting money in.
    Which means they saw the most gimped, limited version of what this game offers.

    A free FF slot would ACTUALLY SHOW people what the promise of this game is.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    New Junkies? I assume you mean people who have not already played and quit champions online that want to play a superhero MMO but havent found CO already?

    Yeah. They're coming in droves.. RIGHT AFTER you do zero advertising and release the only good feature of the game for free (customization). /sarcasm

    No actually, I mean the people currently playing who don't have a Free Form. I know.. it's crazy... but there are people playing who still only have access to Archetypes. If those can keep their interest, imagine what a Free Form will do.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    No actually, I mean the people currently playing who don't have a Free Form. I know.. it's crazy... but there are people playing who still only have access to Archetypes. If those can keep their interest, imagine what a Free Form will do.

    its a zero sum gain. They aren't going to do anything additionally than what they are already doing.. except maybe buy fewer special archetypes.
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    its a zero sum gain. They aren't going to do anything additionally than what they are already doing.. except maybe buy fewer special archetypes.

    That's one theory. Another is that for some reason running through the same content over and over is more fun on a Free Form character, which is why people will have 50+ freeform alts... not sure I've ever seen anyone with 50+ archetype alts.

    Simple concept: Make a game more fun, people will play it more.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Interest level is variable, not binary.

    For example, my case... I like a lot of different things. I have some preference for superhero games mainly because they fold in so many different related genres (urban fantasy, modern horror, regular fantasy, various flavors of scifi). So I'm not in a Stockholm situation where I must play CO because I don't enjoy anything else.

    I really enjoy freeform experimentation. But given the state of the game, I just can't justify spending $15 (or, more likely, $7-8 timecard) for a month of CO, not when there are other games out there that offer so much more for so much less.

    I miss my wacky 'every aoe ever' radiation(ish) guy, my plant-themed character, water-theme, etc. It'd be nice to tinker a bit more.

    So I went silver because I felt the game wasn't worth a subscription. And then had the 'fun' of CO's wacky silver/gold respec shenanigans (which is SO EFFIN ANNOYING).

    And my interest withered further, between feeling like I was running a gauntlet of stupid design, and being restricted to a limited form of the game.

    Finally... screw this, I'll go play something else.


    But, you know, if I could play FF characters, maybe I'd actually log in a little more often. Maybe I'd run some missions with other people. Maybe I'd actually go 'what the heck, I'll buy some emotes' or something. At the VERY least, I'd be part of a larger population of folks hanging around, which has a bunch of synergistic benefits.

    Because that's the hidden value of f2p -- HAVING PEOPLE AROUND is a value to the core audience. It adds to the fun of a social game.

    You need to get people in. Both to cultivate potential future buyers, and to make the more willing buyers happy and feeling that they are part of a thriving game.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    To put this in perspective, imagine you REALLY want to group up to do Lemurian stuff. Imagine one person in a thousand feels likewise.

    Now imagine how much happier you'd be if the population were 10x what it is now. Or 100x.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't know that giving away a Freeform slot is the answer. But I don't actually have the answer.

    Some suggestions:

    1. Drop the price of Freeform to about 30 bucks. Put it on sale indefinitely (meaning, you permanently see a slashed out $50 and a big NOW $30!! so people will feel like they're getting a bargain). Lower price will encourage more sales, more alts, etc.

    2. Give it an introductory price. Your first hit is 35 bucks or something. After that you go to regular price. It's a much easier pill to swallow, and might get the people who would never even consider a Freeform slot to maybe consider it.

    3. Give a discount to those who have purchased. Your first Freeform slot is $50, but every one thereafter is marked down to $30 bucks. Might discourage the "only need one character" mentality.

    4. Lower the price and bundle it up. Thirty buck for the Freeform slot, or $50 for the Freeform Bundle, that gets you a Freeform slot, some stupid vehicle and 5 boxes of mods, and maybe permanent 10% XP boost.
    biffsig.jpg
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It depends on what problem you're trying to solve.

    Someone willing to even spend $30 on the game can already do so in countless ways. The advantage of a permanent FF slot (with none of the other benefits, like power coloring/emanation) vs. 5 months of subscription vs. 3000 zen worth of costumes? I'm not sure the FF slot adds any 'draw' for the game.
    Lowering FF slot price from one high value to a somewhat lesser high value... enh, not sure it'd make much of a difference.

    But the people out there who aren't convinced the game is worth putting any money into? I think that's a problem CO needs to address.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about each new account comes with a limited Freeform token. You get to try out Freeform for a day or some hours or something, after which the character is stripped of all powers and taken to the powerhouse to choose an archetype. Give them a taste up front so they know what they're missing out on?
    biffsig.jpg
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Again, think of the competition:

    GW2
    For $50, you get the entire flippin game. Yeah, there are some cool pay stuff to get, but I, for one, never felt remotely pushed to getting any of it.

    STO
    Cryptic is competing with itself. In STO, you can go from 1-50 without paying a cent. Sure, takes a little creativity with the bag space, but not much. Spending money gets you various cool costumes and some useful (but not 'better') ships, and most of the items of any real worth can be bought with a modest amount of work on the exchange (fleet modules, for example -- about a week of grinding foundry)

    NW
    There are some annoyance barriers that encourage money, but, again, pretty much everything is available free.

    DCUO
    Certain cool powersets are sub-only or DLC, and from what I understand there is a soft wall at some point toward the endgame for free, but you can get a really good run of most of the basic content without paying anything, and get a feel for how the game runs.

    CO
    Free accounts get only a highly limited archetype (and only some of them without paying), start out with a highly limited costume system. Much of the basic system is locked either behind $50 for a freeform slot or subscription, so there's no way to find out how much of the game operates unless you spend a lot of cash.


    CO's current f2p system is not even remotely competitive with even Cryptic's other games (let alone PWE's larger constellation of properties), and that would be a problem even if CO was a highly robust, popular game.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about each new account comes with a limited Freeform token. You get to try out Freeform for a day or some hours or something, after which the character is stripped of all powers and taken to the powerhouse to choose an archetype. Give them a taste up front so they know what they're missing out on?

    Again, this sounds like leveraging from a position of strength, which is not where CO is.

    This is like the local restaurant hurting for customers raising prices and starting to charge for drink refills.

    NO. Be GENEROUS!
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Again, this sounds like leveraging from a position of strength, which is not where CO is.

    This is like the local restaurant hurting for customers raising prices and starting to charge for drink refills.

    NO. Be GENEROUS!

    I think if you want to offer Freeform for free, you're going to have to do a complete reanalysis of the C-Store. Champions is different from the other games you talk about in that one character can be changed into any class you want.

    I think if you're not monetizing from the Freeform slot itself, you'd probably have to monetize from powersets. Take the most symbolic of each of the frameworks and make that free (Energy Projector - Fire, Tech - Power Armor, Brick - Might, etc.), and then make the others premium. But then the question arises, are you really Freeform if you can't choose from any powers? I dunno.

    I think giving away Freeform without adjusting things in some way would be a mistake. But no way of knowing until it happens, though.
    biffsig.jpg
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I will say it again..

    Until they stop treating Champions Online like paper dolls for boys the game will not grow. It's a video game, yet the rules of the gameverse are HORRIBLE.

    The combat needs to be re-written and standardized

    The stat system needs to be updated for the new numbers that are capable

    This of course leads to specialization reform

    Even apparently the chat code and potential for Player Generated Combat WITHIN THE CRYPTIC GAME ENGINE need updating.

    Then finally AI that is responsive to the new form of combat.


    Until this is a video game again I simply refuse to play it. To make all these changes to the CORE of what populates Champions Online would have too much potential risk for ANYone to sign off on that cared for keeping their comfortable dev chair..

    Best option to keep Champions Online alive (including getting regular population to merit content and new open worlds) is to re-brand and re-release.

    Offer Freeform slots if that's the model of the game you're working with because no one wants to play and be sub-par for ANY reason. Then make money on the things people really are willing to pay for like costumes, animations (including emanation points and power animations), in-game recognition, etc. Pick the selling market that works best (Lockboxes) and make them the across the board standard so there's no "This you gambe for and that you don't".

    People have not just left CO for the lack of worlds or content (though that is a HUGE reason) they leave because the entire game is just no longer relevant to them. PvPers can't PvP fairly. Crowd Controllers can't crowd control. Healers can't heal. Crafters can't craft.

    The core population I see left in the game (not the revolving accounts that come and go) are one type of Player.. Tank/DPS builds. DPS and Self Survival are the only two mechanics that are left appealing to the gaming community (not neccesarily the RP community). I'm not saying you need classes, but the game needs to do SOMETHING to make the people who feel irrelevant relevant again.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think if you want to offer Freeform for free, you're going to have to do a complete reanalysis of the C-Store. Champions is different from the other games you talk about in that one character can be changed into any class you want.

    I think if you're not monetizing from the Freeform slot itself, you'd probably have to monetize from powersets. Take the most symbolic of each of the frameworks and make that free (Energy Projector - Fire, Tech - Power Armor, Brick - Might, etc.), and then make the others premium. But then the question arises, are you really Freeform if you can't choose from any powers? I dunno.

    CoH was charging for new powersets when it went to its f2p model. I see no reason why that couldn't work here if they made Free Forms free.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    We'll get new worlds when they reapply all the content they removed and then add more content to make up for the limbs that were severed since On Alert.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think if you want to offer Freeform for free, you're going to have to do a complete reanalysis of the C-Store. Champions is different from the other games you talk about in that one character can be changed into any class you want.



    Hmm, sounds like retcon tokens might become a hot item under those circumstances.


    I think if you're not monetizing from the Freeform slot itself, you'd probably have to monetize from powersets. Take the most symbolic of each of the frameworks and make that free (Energy Projector - Fire, Tech - Power Armor, Brick - Might, etc.), and then make the others premium. But then the question arises, are you really Freeform if you can't choose from any powers? I dunno.

    I think giving away Freeform without adjusting things in some way would be a mistake. But no way of knowing until it happens, though.


    I would rather see something where the free Freeform slot was a means of encouraging people to want to continue playing so that they might buy more other things.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Again, think of the competition:

    GW2
    For $50, you get the entire flippin game. Yeah, there are some cool pay stuff to get, but I, for one, never felt remotely pushed to getting any of it.

    Okay, it's pretty unfair to use GW2 as a benchmark for anything when it comes to MMOs in general, because the GW games are in a special league of their own. Yes, you pay the one-time retail price of $50 for GW2 to access all of its content online with no subscription fee or any crucial need for micro-transactions whatsoever. This is only because that decision gamble paid off for the first GW game when they chose to depend only on box sales (including expansions) to cover for maintenance and development costs. The monumental success of the first game pretty much assured the same success for the second, if not better.
    zahinder wrote: »
    CO
    Free accounts get only a highly limited archetype (and only some of them without paying), start out with a highly limited costume system. Much of the basic system is locked either behind $50 for a freeform slot or subscription, so there's no way to find out how much of the game operates unless you spend a lot of cash.

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by saying that the basic system is locked behind freeform or subscription. Are you talking about the basic principles of combat? The method of switching zones and instances? Environment interactions? The chat system? The levelling system and powerhouse? Those basic gameplay aspects can be learned with a silver account easily. You don't actually need to spend money for that. Freeform just allows for better flexibility and a different gameplay experience from that of archetypes and the opportunity to learn different build combos, but the basic principles of combat and the rest of the gameplay still apply.
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    I would rather see something where the free Freeform slot was a means of encouraging people to want to continue playing so that they might buy more other things.

    I'm really just spitballing. Like I said, I got no answers to the problem, just offering suggestions.

    I think that offering the "basic" powerset options and then giving players the option to branch out into specifics would be good, kinda like how the game gives you superspeed and flight, but lets you buy lightspeed and phoenix flight. People like to customize their heroes not just for efficiency, but for concept and flavor.
    biffsig.jpg
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    I will say it again..

    Until they stop treating Champions Online like paper dolls for boys the game will not grow. It's a video game, yet the rules of the gameverse are HORRIBLE. Thats why you see so many female characters with deformed ribcages.(the max chest depth) Guys, any female who looked like that is going to get teased all through school, they are not going to go around in reveaaling clothes when they eventually develop a bust.

    The combat needs to be re-written and standardized

    The stat system needs to be updated for the new numbers that are capable

    This of course leads to specialization reform

    Even apparently the chat code and potential for Player Generated Combat WITHIN THE CRYPTIC GAME ENGINE need updating.

    Then finally AI that is responsive to the new form of combat.


    Until this is a video game again I simply refuse to play it. To make all these changes to the CORE of what populates Champions Online would have too much potential risk for ANYone to sign off on that cared for keeping their comfortable dev chair..

    Best option to keep Champions Online alive (including getting regular population to merit content and new open worlds) is to re-brand and re-release.

    Offer Freeform slots if that's the model of the game you're working with because no one wants to play and be sub-par for ANY reason. Then make money on the things people really are willing to pay for like costumes, animations (including emanation points and power animations), in-game recognition, etc. Pick the selling market that works best (Lockboxes) and make them the across the board standard so there's no "This you gambe for and that you don't".

    People have not just left CO for the lack of worlds or content (though that is a HUGE reason) they leave because the entire game is just no longer relevant to them. PvPers can't PvP fairly. Crowd Controllers can't crowd control. Healers can't heal. Crafters can't craft.

    The core population I see left in the game (not the revolving accounts that come and go) are one type of Player.. Tank/DPS builds. DPS and Self Survival are the only two mechanics that are left appealing to the gaming community (not neccesarily the RP community). I'm not saying you need classes, but the game needs to do SOMETHING to make the people who feel irrelevant relevant again.

    dps/support, plain support, I have 1 that can be described as a sort of tank.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

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  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    GW2 only went with that model because of success of first game?

    What about The Secret World? They're using the same model.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • smoochansmoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    GW2 only went with that model because of success of first game?

    What about The Secret World? They're using the same model.

    I think GW and SW are both of the mind that the way we used to pay for video games before the whole subscription thing started was satisfactory, and that a lot of potential customers agree.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    GW2 only went with that model because of success of first game?

    What about The Secret World? They're using the same model.

    TSW followed that model out of desperation, the publisher imploded and shuttered studios after releasing
    that MMO to mediocre reception and stock market scandals.

    Player numbers on Steam, after multiple half price sales can't keep it in the top 100 played list while in
    comparison STO rages on at 2,500 players over 48 hours for month after month without any special offers.

    Champions Online is past the buy to play point because it is already free to play.
    It is already "We will pay you pennies to play this!" to play.
    They offer a $10 a month subscription with virtual cash back guaranteed.

    This business model works like baking your own bread because the smell attracts
    customers to your prancercise karate class / Jet propulsion chop shop to buy lottery tickets.

    Go figure.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    TSW followed that model out of desperation, the publisher imploded and shuttered studios after releasing
    that MMO to mediocre reception and stock market scandals.

    I like TSW . It has a purpose . Its the one MMO we can mock legit.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think a free FF slot for each new silver player would be a great idea.
    Successful companies can be generous, it's about marketing and rep... while excessive priced items tend to give a cheap tag onto a company.

    If Cryptic Studios dares to be generous and gives one free FF slot to each new silver player (knowing the hue limitations on silver FF slot), I think it'll greatly improve its rep and the playerbase's trust in the economical health of the company.

    Also, it might be relevant to note that Champs is a strong altoholic mmo so my guess is that once a silver player would play a FF, he might be more inclined to buy more FF slots.

    More events with lockboxes with a chance to get a free FF slot would be great too as it would show that FF slot is something present into the gameplay... rather than far away - both as a possible reward and as an overpriced item - as it's the actual situation.
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You know, another solution would be letting silver accounts have a 'test character' that can be set to different levels, is totally freeform (emanations, power coloring) -- and can't leave powerhouse.

    That would serve the goal of showcasing what the advantages of subscription would be without actually giving away stuff.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • vikaernesvikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    I like TSW . It has a purpose . Its the one MMO we can mock legit.

    Cool story, I'm just gonna go and read the TSW director's letter for July, again, the one they get every month there, detailing with near complete transparency their roadmap for every update packed full of awesome stuff to devour. How are those UNTIL reports working out for us by the way? Hey what's up Cryptic North, it's so awesome to hear from you so often, looking foreward to that new massive open world zone you got coming out, just to keep this thread on Tra--

    Oh wait, sorry that's TSW. My bad.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    Cool story, I'm just gonna go and read the TSW director's letter for July, again, the one they get every month there, detailing with near complete transparency their roadmap for every update packed full of awesome stuff to devour. How are those UNTIL reports working out for us by the way? Hey what's up Cryptic North, it's so awesome to hear from you so often, looking foreward to that new massive open world zone you got coming out, just to keep this thread on Tra--

    Oh wait, sorry that's TSW. My bad.

    That is a cool story its almost up there with Battlefield Earth.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • lucasjacksonlucasjackson Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    Cool story, I'm just gonna go and read the TSW director's letter for July, again, the one they get every month there, detailing with near complete transparency their roadmap for every update packed full of awesome stuff to devour. How are those UNTIL reports working out for us by the way? Hey what's up Cryptic North, it's so awesome to hear from you so often, looking foreward to that new massive open world zone you got coming out, just to keep this thread on Tra--

    Oh wait, sorry that's TSW. My bad.

    I'd rather read zero about a fun game than read oodles about a bland and generic game. Just sayin'.
  • vikaernesvikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'd rather read zero about a fun game than read oodles about a bland and generic game. Just sayin'.

    At this point we're crossing into definitions that have no basis in fact, which is ok, fun is subjective and one person's candy bowl is another person's garbage pail, no biggie. CO *could* be fun IMO, if there were actually something to do, aside from teeny tiny short burst content updates that make even the barest of bones look meaty by comparison. I can sympathize with the OP, as this is the kind of thing that would keep me logging in every day, as opposed to once every 2 months, for a 15 minute mission. I don't have much fun logging into a game and marveling at all that could be, but isn't.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    At this point we're crossing into definitions that have no basis in fact, which is ok, fun is subjective and one person's candy bowl is another person's garbage pail, no biggie. CO *could* be fun IMO, if there were actually something to do, aside from teeny tiny short burst content updates that make even the barest of bones look meaty by comparison. I can sympathize with the OP, as this is the kind of thing that would keep me logging in every day, as opposed to once every 2 months, for a 15 minute mission. I don't have much fun logging into a game and marveling at all that could be, but isn't.

    Sometime you have decent enough points and seem likable enough so I will say and ask this without flame. I tried the Secret World because I like Conan. I found I didnt not like it that much. Went somewhere else. I liked the settings all the B-movie monsters and stuff but its not as good as Conan ( that remains FUNCOMs best game ) which was a disappointment because it ran on the same engine. I didnt like so I stopped playing.

    If you dont like Champions why do you play?
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
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